Translation of ει μηIs this translation of “new mind/attitude” correct?What does this phrase from Roger Eno's “Lost in Translation” mean?Is there any explanation for the formation of “bomphiologia” as a Greek word for “verborum bombus”?About Sappho Lobel-Page 104(a)About Sappho Lobel-Page 101Ancient greek translation exercise - narration, meaning of singular *οὔτε*A translation for 'stirrup'Translation of the Word ΣυντέλειαLooking for Correct Greek Translation for HeraclitusHow do you say “translation” in Koine Greek?

Must a song using the A minor scale begin or end with an Am chord? If not, how can I tell what the scale is?

Why isn't there any 9.5 digit multimeter or higher?

Exploiting the delay when a festival ticket is scanned

Polyhedra, Polyhedron, Polytopes and Polygon

Can I change the license of a forked project to the MIT if the license of the parent project has changed from the GPL to the MIT?

Struggling with cyclical dependancies in unit tests

Nested keyval proper parsing

Did the Americans trade destroyers in the "destroyer deal" that they would later need themselves?

If Trump gets impeached, how long would Pence be president?

Are there any unpublished Iain M. Banks short stories?

Name These Animals

Why were contact sensors put on three of the Lunar Module's four legs? Did they ever bend and stick out sideways?

Move the outer key inward in an association

(3 of 11: Akari) What is Pyramid Cult's Favorite Car?

Desktop app status bar: Notification vs error message

Does dual boot harm a laptop battery or reduce its life?

Composing fill in the blanks

What language is Raven using for her attack in the new 52?

Why did House of Representatives need to condemn Trumps Tweets?

ECDSA: Why is SigningKey shorter than VerifyingKey

How can religions be structured in ways that allow inter-faith councils to work?

Did Vladimir Lenin have a cat?

Telling manager project isn't worth the effort?

Why does the Eurostar not show youth pricing?



Translation of ει μη


Is this translation of “new mind/attitude” correct?What does this phrase from Roger Eno's “Lost in Translation” mean?Is there any explanation for the formation of “bomphiologia” as a Greek word for “verborum bombus”?About Sappho Lobel-Page 104(a)About Sappho Lobel-Page 101Ancient greek translation exercise - narration, meaning of singular *οὔτε*A translation for 'stirrup'Translation of the Word ΣυντέλειαLooking for Correct Greek Translation for HeraclitusHow do you say “translation” in Koine Greek?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1















Following a thread on german.SE I wondered why ει μη is translated as German "außer" (other than, except; translated as "unless" in one of the links) Epistle to the Romans (13, 1).



The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish" and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction. That is, it would be relative-pronoun-like in spirit of the etymology. This synthesyzing is probably my main problem, but I am also troubled because there are no direct cognates in Germanic, as far as I am aware. The naive dictionary translation "if not" matches the translation at hand, but I wonder how biased this is by attempts to fit non-Greek grammars. The element of "thought or wish" at least is missing completely. It doesn't help that etymologies of particles are often so convoluted as it seems.



BTW: ei me apo is then translated as except of (Ger "von"), but apo well corresponds to off (Ger ab often combined with von, think get off of that horse). Whether "ohne von" was a set phrase or a new coinage by Luther, now modernized (or corrected) to außer von is obviously not in question here, but a notable tangent.



I couldn't help but notice that ei me somewhat rhymes with eime "to be". Since the etymology of me is uncertain, could the verse be a formulaic archaism? Could it have become corrupted?










share|improve this question







New contributor



vectory is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



























    1















    Following a thread on german.SE I wondered why ει μη is translated as German "außer" (other than, except; translated as "unless" in one of the links) Epistle to the Romans (13, 1).



    The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish" and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction. That is, it would be relative-pronoun-like in spirit of the etymology. This synthesyzing is probably my main problem, but I am also troubled because there are no direct cognates in Germanic, as far as I am aware. The naive dictionary translation "if not" matches the translation at hand, but I wonder how biased this is by attempts to fit non-Greek grammars. The element of "thought or wish" at least is missing completely. It doesn't help that etymologies of particles are often so convoluted as it seems.



    BTW: ei me apo is then translated as except of (Ger "von"), but apo well corresponds to off (Ger ab often combined with von, think get off of that horse). Whether "ohne von" was a set phrase or a new coinage by Luther, now modernized (or corrected) to außer von is obviously not in question here, but a notable tangent.



    I couldn't help but notice that ei me somewhat rhymes with eime "to be". Since the etymology of me is uncertain, could the verse be a formulaic archaism? Could it have become corrupted?










    share|improve this question







    New contributor



    vectory is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      1












      1








      1








      Following a thread on german.SE I wondered why ει μη is translated as German "außer" (other than, except; translated as "unless" in one of the links) Epistle to the Romans (13, 1).



      The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish" and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction. That is, it would be relative-pronoun-like in spirit of the etymology. This synthesyzing is probably my main problem, but I am also troubled because there are no direct cognates in Germanic, as far as I am aware. The naive dictionary translation "if not" matches the translation at hand, but I wonder how biased this is by attempts to fit non-Greek grammars. The element of "thought or wish" at least is missing completely. It doesn't help that etymologies of particles are often so convoluted as it seems.



      BTW: ei me apo is then translated as except of (Ger "von"), but apo well corresponds to off (Ger ab often combined with von, think get off of that horse). Whether "ohne von" was a set phrase or a new coinage by Luther, now modernized (or corrected) to außer von is obviously not in question here, but a notable tangent.



      I couldn't help but notice that ei me somewhat rhymes with eime "to be". Since the etymology of me is uncertain, could the verse be a formulaic archaism? Could it have become corrupted?










      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      vectory is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      Following a thread on german.SE I wondered why ει μη is translated as German "außer" (other than, except; translated as "unless" in one of the links) Epistle to the Romans (13, 1).



      The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish" and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction. That is, it would be relative-pronoun-like in spirit of the etymology. This synthesyzing is probably my main problem, but I am also troubled because there are no direct cognates in Germanic, as far as I am aware. The naive dictionary translation "if not" matches the translation at hand, but I wonder how biased this is by attempts to fit non-Greek grammars. The element of "thought or wish" at least is missing completely. It doesn't help that etymologies of particles are often so convoluted as it seems.



      BTW: ei me apo is then translated as except of (Ger "von"), but apo well corresponds to off (Ger ab often combined with von, think get off of that horse). Whether "ohne von" was a set phrase or a new coinage by Luther, now modernized (or corrected) to außer von is obviously not in question here, but a notable tangent.



      I couldn't help but notice that ei me somewhat rhymes with eime "to be". Since the etymology of me is uncertain, could the verse be a formulaic archaism? Could it have become corrupted?







      greek etymologia meaning






      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      vectory is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.










      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      vectory is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question






      New contributor



      vectory is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      asked 10 hours ago









      vectoryvectory

      1064 bronze badges




      1064 bronze badges




      New contributor



      vectory is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




      New contributor




      vectory is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.

























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          3















          The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish"




          Pretty much. It's one of the two common negative elements in Ancient Greek; οὐ(κ) is generally used with indicative verbs, while μή is used with subjunctives and optatives. Μή is also extremely common in conditionals, which will imminently be relevant.




          and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction




          Technically true, but a bit misleading. The more relevant translation for your purposes is simply "if".



          In other words, εἰ μή means literally "if not" or "unless". This combination can also be translated as "except" without really changing the meaning:




          οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ἐξουσία εἰ μὴ ὑπὸ θεοῦ

          For no power exists unless [it comes] from God

          For no power exists except [that which comes] from God




          P.S. Following your tangent a bit, for the following word, some manuscripts say ὑπὸ, others say ἀπὸ. In this context, I like ὑπὸ more; both words fundamentally mean "from", but ὑπὸ can also mean "under the authority of", which seems right here. (On the other hand, ἀπὸ can mean "originating from", specifying the fundamental source, which also makes sense.)



          P.P.S. Be careful with your transcriptions! "Unless" is εἰ μή, with an eta, while "I am" is εἰμί, with a iota. The two letters are pronounced the same in Modern Greek, but were very different in ancient times, as we can see from transcriptions into other languages.






          share|improve this answer






















          • 1





            Another relevant point is that μή is almost always the negator used in protases. So there really isn't a specific element of "thought or wish" here except insofar as those are always involved in conditionals.

            – TKR
            6 hours ago











          • @TKR Good point! I'll add that.

            – Draconis
            6 hours ago













          Your Answer








          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "644"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader:
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          ,
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );






          vectory is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f11223%2ftranslation-of-%25ce%25b5%25ce%25b9-%25ce%25bc%25ce%25b7%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          3















          The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish"




          Pretty much. It's one of the two common negative elements in Ancient Greek; οὐ(κ) is generally used with indicative verbs, while μή is used with subjunctives and optatives. Μή is also extremely common in conditionals, which will imminently be relevant.




          and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction




          Technically true, but a bit misleading. The more relevant translation for your purposes is simply "if".



          In other words, εἰ μή means literally "if not" or "unless". This combination can also be translated as "except" without really changing the meaning:




          οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ἐξουσία εἰ μὴ ὑπὸ θεοῦ

          For no power exists unless [it comes] from God

          For no power exists except [that which comes] from God




          P.S. Following your tangent a bit, for the following word, some manuscripts say ὑπὸ, others say ἀπὸ. In this context, I like ὑπὸ more; both words fundamentally mean "from", but ὑπὸ can also mean "under the authority of", which seems right here. (On the other hand, ἀπὸ can mean "originating from", specifying the fundamental source, which also makes sense.)



          P.P.S. Be careful with your transcriptions! "Unless" is εἰ μή, with an eta, while "I am" is εἰμί, with a iota. The two letters are pronounced the same in Modern Greek, but were very different in ancient times, as we can see from transcriptions into other languages.






          share|improve this answer






















          • 1





            Another relevant point is that μή is almost always the negator used in protases. So there really isn't a specific element of "thought or wish" here except insofar as those are always involved in conditionals.

            – TKR
            6 hours ago











          • @TKR Good point! I'll add that.

            – Draconis
            6 hours ago















          3















          The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish"




          Pretty much. It's one of the two common negative elements in Ancient Greek; οὐ(κ) is generally used with indicative verbs, while μή is used with subjunctives and optatives. Μή is also extremely common in conditionals, which will imminently be relevant.




          and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction




          Technically true, but a bit misleading. The more relevant translation for your purposes is simply "if".



          In other words, εἰ μή means literally "if not" or "unless". This combination can also be translated as "except" without really changing the meaning:




          οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ἐξουσία εἰ μὴ ὑπὸ θεοῦ

          For no power exists unless [it comes] from God

          For no power exists except [that which comes] from God




          P.S. Following your tangent a bit, for the following word, some manuscripts say ὑπὸ, others say ἀπὸ. In this context, I like ὑπὸ more; both words fundamentally mean "from", but ὑπὸ can also mean "under the authority of", which seems right here. (On the other hand, ἀπὸ can mean "originating from", specifying the fundamental source, which also makes sense.)



          P.P.S. Be careful with your transcriptions! "Unless" is εἰ μή, with an eta, while "I am" is εἰμί, with a iota. The two letters are pronounced the same in Modern Greek, but were very different in ancient times, as we can see from transcriptions into other languages.






          share|improve this answer






















          • 1





            Another relevant point is that μή is almost always the negator used in protases. So there really isn't a specific element of "thought or wish" here except insofar as those are always involved in conditionals.

            – TKR
            6 hours ago











          • @TKR Good point! I'll add that.

            – Draconis
            6 hours ago













          3












          3








          3








          The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish"




          Pretty much. It's one of the two common negative elements in Ancient Greek; οὐ(κ) is generally used with indicative verbs, while μή is used with subjunctives and optatives. Μή is also extremely common in conditionals, which will imminently be relevant.




          and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction




          Technically true, but a bit misleading. The more relevant translation for your purposes is simply "if".



          In other words, εἰ μή means literally "if not" or "unless". This combination can also be translated as "except" without really changing the meaning:




          οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ἐξουσία εἰ μὴ ὑπὸ θεοῦ

          For no power exists unless [it comes] from God

          For no power exists except [that which comes] from God




          P.S. Following your tangent a bit, for the following word, some manuscripts say ὑπὸ, others say ἀπὸ. In this context, I like ὑπὸ more; both words fundamentally mean "from", but ὑπὸ can also mean "under the authority of", which seems right here. (On the other hand, ἀπὸ can mean "originating from", specifying the fundamental source, which also makes sense.)



          P.P.S. Be careful with your transcriptions! "Unless" is εἰ μή, with an eta, while "I am" is εἰμί, with a iota. The two letters are pronounced the same in Modern Greek, but were very different in ancient times, as we can see from transcriptions into other languages.






          share|improve this answer
















          The wiktionary tells me for the individual elements that "μή is the negative of thought or wish"




          Pretty much. It's one of the two common negative elements in Ancient Greek; οὐ(κ) is generally used with indicative verbs, while μή is used with subjunctives and optatives. Μή is also extremely common in conditionals, which will imminently be relevant.




          and that ει is a kind of relative conjunction




          Technically true, but a bit misleading. The more relevant translation for your purposes is simply "if".



          In other words, εἰ μή means literally "if not" or "unless". This combination can also be translated as "except" without really changing the meaning:




          οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ἐξουσία εἰ μὴ ὑπὸ θεοῦ

          For no power exists unless [it comes] from God

          For no power exists except [that which comes] from God




          P.S. Following your tangent a bit, for the following word, some manuscripts say ὑπὸ, others say ἀπὸ. In this context, I like ὑπὸ more; both words fundamentally mean "from", but ὑπὸ can also mean "under the authority of", which seems right here. (On the other hand, ἀπὸ can mean "originating from", specifying the fundamental source, which also makes sense.)



          P.P.S. Be careful with your transcriptions! "Unless" is εἰ μή, with an eta, while "I am" is εἰμί, with a iota. The two letters are pronounced the same in Modern Greek, but were very different in ancient times, as we can see from transcriptions into other languages.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 6 hours ago

























          answered 6 hours ago









          DraconisDraconis

          24k2 gold badges33 silver badges101 bronze badges




          24k2 gold badges33 silver badges101 bronze badges










          • 1





            Another relevant point is that μή is almost always the negator used in protases. So there really isn't a specific element of "thought or wish" here except insofar as those are always involved in conditionals.

            – TKR
            6 hours ago











          • @TKR Good point! I'll add that.

            – Draconis
            6 hours ago












          • 1





            Another relevant point is that μή is almost always the negator used in protases. So there really isn't a specific element of "thought or wish" here except insofar as those are always involved in conditionals.

            – TKR
            6 hours ago











          • @TKR Good point! I'll add that.

            – Draconis
            6 hours ago







          1




          1





          Another relevant point is that μή is almost always the negator used in protases. So there really isn't a specific element of "thought or wish" here except insofar as those are always involved in conditionals.

          – TKR
          6 hours ago





          Another relevant point is that μή is almost always the negator used in protases. So there really isn't a specific element of "thought or wish" here except insofar as those are always involved in conditionals.

          – TKR
          6 hours ago













          @TKR Good point! I'll add that.

          – Draconis
          6 hours ago





          @TKR Good point! I'll add that.

          – Draconis
          6 hours ago










          vectory is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          vectory is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












          vectory is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











          vectory is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














          Thanks for contributing an answer to Latin Language Stack Exchange!


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid


          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f11223%2ftranslation-of-%25ce%25b5%25ce%25b9-%25ce%25bc%25ce%25b7%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown





















































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







          Popular posts from this blog

          Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

          Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

          199年 目錄 大件事 到箇年出世嗰人 到箇年死嗰人 節慶、風俗習慣 導覽選單