Should I intervene when a colleague in a different department makes students run laps as part of their grade?How do I appropriately penalize late projects?In a class with both graduate and undergraduate students, is it normal for a single grading curve to be applied for both groups?How to Scale or Curve the Grades for an Examination?How to explain a bad grade to a delusional student?In case of in-lecture quizzes, is it unreasonable to fail students who are late or absent?What should I do if I think that a professor has graded a course based on his personal impressions of students?Is an American University Professor allowed to share grades with the class?When should the grading scheme for quizzes and exams be finalized?Is it fair to offer students a chance to improve their grade on an assignmentProblem with relative grading system?
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Should I intervene when a colleague in a different department makes students run laps as part of their grade?
How do I appropriately penalize late projects?In a class with both graduate and undergraduate students, is it normal for a single grading curve to be applied for both groups?How to Scale or Curve the Grades for an Examination?How to explain a bad grade to a delusional student?In case of in-lecture quizzes, is it unreasonable to fail students who are late or absent?What should I do if I think that a professor has graded a course based on his personal impressions of students?Is an American University Professor allowed to share grades with the class?When should the grading scheme for quizzes and exams be finalized?Is it fair to offer students a chance to improve their grade on an assignmentProblem with relative grading system?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
Basic Premise
Can a microbiology professor require students to run laps on the track during class for a grade, even if the class usually has no physical component to it?
Background
As part of my role as a university professor, my college requires that I advise a number of undergraduate students on the progress on their degrees in the college. These meetings are short, usually no more than 10 minutes, and act as a quick waypoint to ensure that students are on track and having success with their studies. I ask if the student has any concerns generally and sometimes advise on career options or basic life advice, etc.
This past week, I had a student inform me that he is worried about his grade in an upper division [microbiology] (not the actual subject, but represenative of the type of subject) class. This student is a pre-med student who is on track to begin applying to medical school shortly. I have spoken with this student two times prior and he is an excellent student and has done very well in all of his classes up to this point. As such, I inquired as to why he was worried about his microbiology grade. He then proceeded to tell me that his microbiology professor bases part of their grade off of what he calls "Physical Involvement." (Or something like that).
Now, what is this "Physical Involvement" portion of the grade you might ask? Running. As in, let's go down to the fieldhouse and run a mile before class dismisses. (More on that in a moment).
However, the student in question is a huskier fellow for whom exercising and "physical involvement" is no easy task. Simply put, he is someone that the Centers for Disease Control in the United States would classify as obese.
Although only very loosely connected to microbiology, the professor in question has decided that since most of his class consists of students who will become physicians,* he wants to encourage holistic health practices in his students. Part of this, in his opinion, is maintaining a healthy body weight. He supposes that a heavyset physician cannot give advice on a patient's health without coming across as a hypocrite. Thus, this professor has made physical exercise part of the grade for the class.
Because the class is being taught on a 7-week instead of a 14-week schedule (summer class), each class period goes for 120 minutes instead of the usual 50 minutes. The professor has decided that for the last 30 minutes of the class, the class will walk over to the fieldhouse and run a mile. For credit. There are 20 class periods in the semester and each class period a student is given one point for running a mile at the end of class. The professor and TAs count the laps for the students. A student who completes a mile in each of the 20 class periods is given 20/20 for the "physical involvement" portion of the grade. A student who runs 9/10ths of a mile each class, but never completes the mile receives 0/20. It is all or nothing. This accounts for 20% of the grade. Hence, a student who never runs the full mile is pretty much guaranteed a B- or worse in the class. For someone who is trying to get into medical school, getting a B- in a core class is not ideal.
There supposedly (as per the student) is no way to make these runs up. In theory, there is no time limit (e.g. "You must do this in 6 minutes or better"), but the students are realistically only given about 10-15 minutes to complete the run before the professor needs to leave. The student in question here is the only runner too slow to complete a mile in that time.
Field Work
With all of this being told to me, I decided I needed to see this for myself. At the appointed time, I casually appeared at the fieldhouse in my running clothes and pretended to exercise. And sure enough, here came the microbiology class to run their laps. It was exactly as described by the student. (This had to be one of the oddest things I have ever seen at a university track. Some of these students ran their laps in semi-formal pants with leather shoes). Every student completed the run (some just barely), except for the student I am advising.
The Question
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department? The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany. His class requirements seem completely irrelevant, but I'm not sure how (or if) I should intervene.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
*The class is usually taught in the Spring Semester (January-May), but the college is running a special section this summer in order to accommodate about 20 or so pre-med students who had a conflicting class last semester. Normally the class would be a mix of pre-med students, microbiology majors, pre-pharmacy students, etc.
advisor undergraduate grading medicine
|
show 13 more comments
Basic Premise
Can a microbiology professor require students to run laps on the track during class for a grade, even if the class usually has no physical component to it?
Background
As part of my role as a university professor, my college requires that I advise a number of undergraduate students on the progress on their degrees in the college. These meetings are short, usually no more than 10 minutes, and act as a quick waypoint to ensure that students are on track and having success with their studies. I ask if the student has any concerns generally and sometimes advise on career options or basic life advice, etc.
This past week, I had a student inform me that he is worried about his grade in an upper division [microbiology] (not the actual subject, but represenative of the type of subject) class. This student is a pre-med student who is on track to begin applying to medical school shortly. I have spoken with this student two times prior and he is an excellent student and has done very well in all of his classes up to this point. As such, I inquired as to why he was worried about his microbiology grade. He then proceeded to tell me that his microbiology professor bases part of their grade off of what he calls "Physical Involvement." (Or something like that).
Now, what is this "Physical Involvement" portion of the grade you might ask? Running. As in, let's go down to the fieldhouse and run a mile before class dismisses. (More on that in a moment).
However, the student in question is a huskier fellow for whom exercising and "physical involvement" is no easy task. Simply put, he is someone that the Centers for Disease Control in the United States would classify as obese.
Although only very loosely connected to microbiology, the professor in question has decided that since most of his class consists of students who will become physicians,* he wants to encourage holistic health practices in his students. Part of this, in his opinion, is maintaining a healthy body weight. He supposes that a heavyset physician cannot give advice on a patient's health without coming across as a hypocrite. Thus, this professor has made physical exercise part of the grade for the class.
Because the class is being taught on a 7-week instead of a 14-week schedule (summer class), each class period goes for 120 minutes instead of the usual 50 minutes. The professor has decided that for the last 30 minutes of the class, the class will walk over to the fieldhouse and run a mile. For credit. There are 20 class periods in the semester and each class period a student is given one point for running a mile at the end of class. The professor and TAs count the laps for the students. A student who completes a mile in each of the 20 class periods is given 20/20 for the "physical involvement" portion of the grade. A student who runs 9/10ths of a mile each class, but never completes the mile receives 0/20. It is all or nothing. This accounts for 20% of the grade. Hence, a student who never runs the full mile is pretty much guaranteed a B- or worse in the class. For someone who is trying to get into medical school, getting a B- in a core class is not ideal.
There supposedly (as per the student) is no way to make these runs up. In theory, there is no time limit (e.g. "You must do this in 6 minutes or better"), but the students are realistically only given about 10-15 minutes to complete the run before the professor needs to leave. The student in question here is the only runner too slow to complete a mile in that time.
Field Work
With all of this being told to me, I decided I needed to see this for myself. At the appointed time, I casually appeared at the fieldhouse in my running clothes and pretended to exercise. And sure enough, here came the microbiology class to run their laps. It was exactly as described by the student. (This had to be one of the oddest things I have ever seen at a university track. Some of these students ran their laps in semi-formal pants with leather shoes). Every student completed the run (some just barely), except for the student I am advising.
The Question
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department? The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany. His class requirements seem completely irrelevant, but I'm not sure how (or if) I should intervene.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
*The class is usually taught in the Spring Semester (January-May), but the college is running a special section this summer in order to accommodate about 20 or so pre-med students who had a conflicting class last semester. Normally the class would be a mix of pre-med students, microbiology majors, pre-pharmacy students, etc.
advisor undergraduate grading medicine
3
I suggest, strongly, that you talk to that professor and then make a judgement about the requirements and their appropriateness.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
3
If you asked me 30 years ago the question "Can a professor arbitrarily grade students on the basis of X", I would have told you that, yes, they virtually could, and from your description of the professor I suspect he is a relic of those olden times.
– Massimo Ortolano
9 hours ago
1
@MassimoOrtolano I think that technically it is 1600m (4 x 400m). And note that there is no stated time limit such as 6 minutes. I will admit that I think the student should be able to actually walk a mile (1600m) in 15 minutes at the very worst. But it shouldn't be part of the grade.
– Vladhagen
9 hours ago
10
The general health advice for working with obese persons is to start small, adding even 5 minutes of physically activity at first if that is their current physical condition. A doctor suggesting an obese person start by running a mile, without having received even a basic health checkup to ensure that this is safe and suggested, could literally end up killing a patient (or this student) by insisting they engage in physical activity more strenuous than their body is currently in a condition to handle. And this person wants to train doctors? Someone should certainly step in before too late.
– BrianH
9 hours ago
3
In addition to the fact that, as BrianH has mentioned, this may be physically detrimental to the student (and thus hypocritical as well as dangerous), there is also the issue that the university, and the students, are paying a 'microbiology' professor for sitting around for 10 teaching hours per month counting a handful of students do laps, which an illiterate 7 year-old could be usefully paid to do instead, were not (quite rightly, need it be said) illegal. And had I paid for a university education and been forced to do something detrimental to my wellbeing (either mental or physical) ...
– Araucaria
8 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
Basic Premise
Can a microbiology professor require students to run laps on the track during class for a grade, even if the class usually has no physical component to it?
Background
As part of my role as a university professor, my college requires that I advise a number of undergraduate students on the progress on their degrees in the college. These meetings are short, usually no more than 10 minutes, and act as a quick waypoint to ensure that students are on track and having success with their studies. I ask if the student has any concerns generally and sometimes advise on career options or basic life advice, etc.
This past week, I had a student inform me that he is worried about his grade in an upper division [microbiology] (not the actual subject, but represenative of the type of subject) class. This student is a pre-med student who is on track to begin applying to medical school shortly. I have spoken with this student two times prior and he is an excellent student and has done very well in all of his classes up to this point. As such, I inquired as to why he was worried about his microbiology grade. He then proceeded to tell me that his microbiology professor bases part of their grade off of what he calls "Physical Involvement." (Or something like that).
Now, what is this "Physical Involvement" portion of the grade you might ask? Running. As in, let's go down to the fieldhouse and run a mile before class dismisses. (More on that in a moment).
However, the student in question is a huskier fellow for whom exercising and "physical involvement" is no easy task. Simply put, he is someone that the Centers for Disease Control in the United States would classify as obese.
Although only very loosely connected to microbiology, the professor in question has decided that since most of his class consists of students who will become physicians,* he wants to encourage holistic health practices in his students. Part of this, in his opinion, is maintaining a healthy body weight. He supposes that a heavyset physician cannot give advice on a patient's health without coming across as a hypocrite. Thus, this professor has made physical exercise part of the grade for the class.
Because the class is being taught on a 7-week instead of a 14-week schedule (summer class), each class period goes for 120 minutes instead of the usual 50 minutes. The professor has decided that for the last 30 minutes of the class, the class will walk over to the fieldhouse and run a mile. For credit. There are 20 class periods in the semester and each class period a student is given one point for running a mile at the end of class. The professor and TAs count the laps for the students. A student who completes a mile in each of the 20 class periods is given 20/20 for the "physical involvement" portion of the grade. A student who runs 9/10ths of a mile each class, but never completes the mile receives 0/20. It is all or nothing. This accounts for 20% of the grade. Hence, a student who never runs the full mile is pretty much guaranteed a B- or worse in the class. For someone who is trying to get into medical school, getting a B- in a core class is not ideal.
There supposedly (as per the student) is no way to make these runs up. In theory, there is no time limit (e.g. "You must do this in 6 minutes or better"), but the students are realistically only given about 10-15 minutes to complete the run before the professor needs to leave. The student in question here is the only runner too slow to complete a mile in that time.
Field Work
With all of this being told to me, I decided I needed to see this for myself. At the appointed time, I casually appeared at the fieldhouse in my running clothes and pretended to exercise. And sure enough, here came the microbiology class to run their laps. It was exactly as described by the student. (This had to be one of the oddest things I have ever seen at a university track. Some of these students ran their laps in semi-formal pants with leather shoes). Every student completed the run (some just barely), except for the student I am advising.
The Question
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department? The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany. His class requirements seem completely irrelevant, but I'm not sure how (or if) I should intervene.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
*The class is usually taught in the Spring Semester (January-May), but the college is running a special section this summer in order to accommodate about 20 or so pre-med students who had a conflicting class last semester. Normally the class would be a mix of pre-med students, microbiology majors, pre-pharmacy students, etc.
advisor undergraduate grading medicine
Basic Premise
Can a microbiology professor require students to run laps on the track during class for a grade, even if the class usually has no physical component to it?
Background
As part of my role as a university professor, my college requires that I advise a number of undergraduate students on the progress on their degrees in the college. These meetings are short, usually no more than 10 minutes, and act as a quick waypoint to ensure that students are on track and having success with their studies. I ask if the student has any concerns generally and sometimes advise on career options or basic life advice, etc.
This past week, I had a student inform me that he is worried about his grade in an upper division [microbiology] (not the actual subject, but represenative of the type of subject) class. This student is a pre-med student who is on track to begin applying to medical school shortly. I have spoken with this student two times prior and he is an excellent student and has done very well in all of his classes up to this point. As such, I inquired as to why he was worried about his microbiology grade. He then proceeded to tell me that his microbiology professor bases part of their grade off of what he calls "Physical Involvement." (Or something like that).
Now, what is this "Physical Involvement" portion of the grade you might ask? Running. As in, let's go down to the fieldhouse and run a mile before class dismisses. (More on that in a moment).
However, the student in question is a huskier fellow for whom exercising and "physical involvement" is no easy task. Simply put, he is someone that the Centers for Disease Control in the United States would classify as obese.
Although only very loosely connected to microbiology, the professor in question has decided that since most of his class consists of students who will become physicians,* he wants to encourage holistic health practices in his students. Part of this, in his opinion, is maintaining a healthy body weight. He supposes that a heavyset physician cannot give advice on a patient's health without coming across as a hypocrite. Thus, this professor has made physical exercise part of the grade for the class.
Because the class is being taught on a 7-week instead of a 14-week schedule (summer class), each class period goes for 120 minutes instead of the usual 50 minutes. The professor has decided that for the last 30 minutes of the class, the class will walk over to the fieldhouse and run a mile. For credit. There are 20 class periods in the semester and each class period a student is given one point for running a mile at the end of class. The professor and TAs count the laps for the students. A student who completes a mile in each of the 20 class periods is given 20/20 for the "physical involvement" portion of the grade. A student who runs 9/10ths of a mile each class, but never completes the mile receives 0/20. It is all or nothing. This accounts for 20% of the grade. Hence, a student who never runs the full mile is pretty much guaranteed a B- or worse in the class. For someone who is trying to get into medical school, getting a B- in a core class is not ideal.
There supposedly (as per the student) is no way to make these runs up. In theory, there is no time limit (e.g. "You must do this in 6 minutes or better"), but the students are realistically only given about 10-15 minutes to complete the run before the professor needs to leave. The student in question here is the only runner too slow to complete a mile in that time.
Field Work
With all of this being told to me, I decided I needed to see this for myself. At the appointed time, I casually appeared at the fieldhouse in my running clothes and pretended to exercise. And sure enough, here came the microbiology class to run their laps. It was exactly as described by the student. (This had to be one of the oddest things I have ever seen at a university track. Some of these students ran their laps in semi-formal pants with leather shoes). Every student completed the run (some just barely), except for the student I am advising.
The Question
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department? The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany. His class requirements seem completely irrelevant, but I'm not sure how (or if) I should intervene.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
*The class is usually taught in the Spring Semester (January-May), but the college is running a special section this summer in order to accommodate about 20 or so pre-med students who had a conflicting class last semester. Normally the class would be a mix of pre-med students, microbiology majors, pre-pharmacy students, etc.
advisor undergraduate grading medicine
advisor undergraduate grading medicine
edited 9 hours ago
Vladhagen
asked 9 hours ago
VladhagenVladhagen
14.2k7 gold badges49 silver badges74 bronze badges
14.2k7 gold badges49 silver badges74 bronze badges
3
I suggest, strongly, that you talk to that professor and then make a judgement about the requirements and their appropriateness.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
3
If you asked me 30 years ago the question "Can a professor arbitrarily grade students on the basis of X", I would have told you that, yes, they virtually could, and from your description of the professor I suspect he is a relic of those olden times.
– Massimo Ortolano
9 hours ago
1
@MassimoOrtolano I think that technically it is 1600m (4 x 400m). And note that there is no stated time limit such as 6 minutes. I will admit that I think the student should be able to actually walk a mile (1600m) in 15 minutes at the very worst. But it shouldn't be part of the grade.
– Vladhagen
9 hours ago
10
The general health advice for working with obese persons is to start small, adding even 5 minutes of physically activity at first if that is their current physical condition. A doctor suggesting an obese person start by running a mile, without having received even a basic health checkup to ensure that this is safe and suggested, could literally end up killing a patient (or this student) by insisting they engage in physical activity more strenuous than their body is currently in a condition to handle. And this person wants to train doctors? Someone should certainly step in before too late.
– BrianH
9 hours ago
3
In addition to the fact that, as BrianH has mentioned, this may be physically detrimental to the student (and thus hypocritical as well as dangerous), there is also the issue that the university, and the students, are paying a 'microbiology' professor for sitting around for 10 teaching hours per month counting a handful of students do laps, which an illiterate 7 year-old could be usefully paid to do instead, were not (quite rightly, need it be said) illegal. And had I paid for a university education and been forced to do something detrimental to my wellbeing (either mental or physical) ...
– Araucaria
8 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
3
I suggest, strongly, that you talk to that professor and then make a judgement about the requirements and their appropriateness.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
3
If you asked me 30 years ago the question "Can a professor arbitrarily grade students on the basis of X", I would have told you that, yes, they virtually could, and from your description of the professor I suspect he is a relic of those olden times.
– Massimo Ortolano
9 hours ago
1
@MassimoOrtolano I think that technically it is 1600m (4 x 400m). And note that there is no stated time limit such as 6 minutes. I will admit that I think the student should be able to actually walk a mile (1600m) in 15 minutes at the very worst. But it shouldn't be part of the grade.
– Vladhagen
9 hours ago
10
The general health advice for working with obese persons is to start small, adding even 5 minutes of physically activity at first if that is their current physical condition. A doctor suggesting an obese person start by running a mile, without having received even a basic health checkup to ensure that this is safe and suggested, could literally end up killing a patient (or this student) by insisting they engage in physical activity more strenuous than their body is currently in a condition to handle. And this person wants to train doctors? Someone should certainly step in before too late.
– BrianH
9 hours ago
3
In addition to the fact that, as BrianH has mentioned, this may be physically detrimental to the student (and thus hypocritical as well as dangerous), there is also the issue that the university, and the students, are paying a 'microbiology' professor for sitting around for 10 teaching hours per month counting a handful of students do laps, which an illiterate 7 year-old could be usefully paid to do instead, were not (quite rightly, need it be said) illegal. And had I paid for a university education and been forced to do something detrimental to my wellbeing (either mental or physical) ...
– Araucaria
8 hours ago
3
3
I suggest, strongly, that you talk to that professor and then make a judgement about the requirements and their appropriateness.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
I suggest, strongly, that you talk to that professor and then make a judgement about the requirements and their appropriateness.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
3
3
If you asked me 30 years ago the question "Can a professor arbitrarily grade students on the basis of X", I would have told you that, yes, they virtually could, and from your description of the professor I suspect he is a relic of those olden times.
– Massimo Ortolano
9 hours ago
If you asked me 30 years ago the question "Can a professor arbitrarily grade students on the basis of X", I would have told you that, yes, they virtually could, and from your description of the professor I suspect he is a relic of those olden times.
– Massimo Ortolano
9 hours ago
1
1
@MassimoOrtolano I think that technically it is 1600m (4 x 400m). And note that there is no stated time limit such as 6 minutes. I will admit that I think the student should be able to actually walk a mile (1600m) in 15 minutes at the very worst. But it shouldn't be part of the grade.
– Vladhagen
9 hours ago
@MassimoOrtolano I think that technically it is 1600m (4 x 400m). And note that there is no stated time limit such as 6 minutes. I will admit that I think the student should be able to actually walk a mile (1600m) in 15 minutes at the very worst. But it shouldn't be part of the grade.
– Vladhagen
9 hours ago
10
10
The general health advice for working with obese persons is to start small, adding even 5 minutes of physically activity at first if that is their current physical condition. A doctor suggesting an obese person start by running a mile, without having received even a basic health checkup to ensure that this is safe and suggested, could literally end up killing a patient (or this student) by insisting they engage in physical activity more strenuous than their body is currently in a condition to handle. And this person wants to train doctors? Someone should certainly step in before too late.
– BrianH
9 hours ago
The general health advice for working with obese persons is to start small, adding even 5 minutes of physically activity at first if that is their current physical condition. A doctor suggesting an obese person start by running a mile, without having received even a basic health checkup to ensure that this is safe and suggested, could literally end up killing a patient (or this student) by insisting they engage in physical activity more strenuous than their body is currently in a condition to handle. And this person wants to train doctors? Someone should certainly step in before too late.
– BrianH
9 hours ago
3
3
In addition to the fact that, as BrianH has mentioned, this may be physically detrimental to the student (and thus hypocritical as well as dangerous), there is also the issue that the university, and the students, are paying a 'microbiology' professor for sitting around for 10 teaching hours per month counting a handful of students do laps, which an illiterate 7 year-old could be usefully paid to do instead, were not (quite rightly, need it be said) illegal. And had I paid for a university education and been forced to do something detrimental to my wellbeing (either mental or physical) ...
– Araucaria
8 hours ago
In addition to the fact that, as BrianH has mentioned, this may be physically detrimental to the student (and thus hypocritical as well as dangerous), there is also the issue that the university, and the students, are paying a 'microbiology' professor for sitting around for 10 teaching hours per month counting a handful of students do laps, which an illiterate 7 year-old could be usefully paid to do instead, were not (quite rightly, need it be said) illegal. And had I paid for a university education and been forced to do something detrimental to my wellbeing (either mental or physical) ...
– Araucaria
8 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
As an outsider this seems ridiculous. I think a quick email to the chair of the department saying that you have an advisee who is worried about BIO302 (or whatever the number is) and the running component. It seems reasonable to ask if that is actually a requirement (which it clearly is, but the department chair may not know it) and if it is, what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. That should get the ball moving.
1
what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. You can’t be serious. If you heard about a woman being discriminated against, would you ask what course was better suited for women? That’s a strange way of expressing concern about behavior that’s so very clearly unacceptable.
– Dan Romik
6 hours ago
6
I think Strong's point is that OP can bring this to the chair's attention by asking some very innocuous questions. If the chair's response is not sufficiently forceful, OP may then need to state their concerns more clearly.
– cag51
6 hours ago
1
@cag51 I don’t think the question is innocuous at all. Among other problems, asking it would reflect poorly on OP, suggesting that he is timid, lacks the small amount of confidence and assertiveness that is required to point out an obvious truth about someone’s blatantly unacceptable behavior, and prefers being disingenuous to direct and clear communication. Moreover, in the unlikely but very possible scenario that the chair is uninterested in doing anything about the problem, the question gives them the perfect excuse to ignore it or drag their feet in responding.
– Dan Romik
5 hours ago
2
@DanRomik I rarely find rocking the boat helpful especially outside the normal hierarchy. If talking to the chair of the other department didn't get things resolved, and I think it would, I would then bring my chair into it. If that didn't do it, I would go to the dean. I would never suggest confronting the chair of another department.
– StrongBad♦
5 hours ago
1
@StrongBad to be clear, my suggested course of action does not call for “confronting” the chair any more than yours does. It sounds like we both basically agree that OP should contact the chair and express concern about the teaching practices he heard about in the other professor’s microbiology class. Where I disagree is with your recommendation that OP should mask his concern by asking disingenuous questions. That still leaves a lot of reasonable wiggle room for how explicit or forceful the expression of concern should be, and one can certainly go about it in a tactful, diplomatic manner.
– Dan Romik
5 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
The student's health status or physique is not of consideration here. If the situation is as the student described, the prof's behavior is simply untenable -- if for no other reason than 25% of contact hours being spent on nonsense. Every student in the class should be incensed. The TAs should be upset that they're spending their time this way.
The chair of the relevant department is the appropriate point of contact. When communicating with the Chair, include that you're passing the student's story along without verification, but you felt the story odd enough that you felt compelled to bring it to the Chair's attention.
While I might agree in general, there is more to an education than "lecture time".
– Buffy
8 hours ago
2
@Buffy absolutely - it's the "nonsense" part that gets to me. Perhaps "contact time" is a better phrase here.
– Scott Seidman
8 hours ago
Actually, I think the professor's opinions and goals should be explored before making judgements about "nonsense". Even "contact time". My philosophy is that the only thing that really matters is what the students do. There are a lot of ways for me to arrange that appropriately.
– Buffy
8 hours ago
3
I'd love to see which of his course outcomes he is using this as an assessment for.
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
3
I think the profs goals will be amply explored, likely in the form of a question of the form "what were you thinking?"
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
add a comment |
If the class is about microbiology, the students’ grade should depend on their knowledge of microbiology, and only on that.
I’ll assume based on OP’s description that this is taking place in the US. Even though I’m not a lawyer I would bet money that for the professor to tie grades in an academic class to athletic performance would constitute an obvious and blatant violation of one or more US laws. It very likely would also violate various policies of your university. For example, at my university the faculty code of conduct has a concept of “failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction”, which I know for a fact would cover the case of a professor spending a large amount of the class’s time on activities that are unrelated to the topic of the course.
Should I intervene when a colleague in a different department makes students run laps as part of their grade?
Obviously yes. You are the student’s undergraduate adviser. That makes you precisely the person positioned to help him when he is being treated in an abusive and probably illegal way by one of his professors.
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department?
Either of those persons sound like appropriate people to talk to. The chair would be the most appropriate, being the person directly above the misbehaving professor in the institutional hierarchy, so I suggest going to them, unless you have some specific reason to fear retaliation or other adverse consequences if you proceed in this way.
The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany.
This is irrelevant. If the professor graded his students based on their looks, how much money they have, the number of hot dogs they can wolf down in 10 minutes, or any other similar criterion unrelated to their knowledge of microbiology, we would not be talking about the professor’s zaniness. Neither should we be talking about it in the current equally absurd scenario.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
Any leeway a microbiology professor should or should not be given would be appropriate to discuss in the context of how they teach microbiology, and how they evaluate students’ knowledge of microbiology. What the professor is doing here is entirely unrelated to such activities, and as such, no leeway applies. As with the mention of zaniness, “leeway” is not even a relevant factor to discuss.
3
+1. In my opinion the abusive component amounts to a form of bullying and probably discrimination: nobody should get a lower grade in a theoretical course for being overweight. This professor is a liability to their institution.
– Erwan
5 hours ago
"graded based on ... how much money they have". I mean, if they have a million in unmarked bills, the university hasn't given us a COLA in four years.... (Kidding, of course. Sadly not about the lack of COLA)
– guifa
4 hours ago
1
Grades almost always depend on more than the pure academic content of the course topic. Such as public speaking skills, language skills, research skills. And beyond that, things like making students tell about themselves and other ice-breaking activities are thought to be helpful to learning. This instructor could easily make an argument about how this activity is valuable and falls under academic freedom, making a big fight out of it at least. The school of course has the ability to exempt students and adjust grades meanwhile.
– A Simple Algorithm
3 hours ago
@ASimpleAlgorithm I disagree that “the instructor could easily make an argument”. They could try, but they couldn’t make the argument because such an argument has no merit; athletic performance has no connection whatsoever to microbiology. The behavior described in this question does not fall under the scope of academic freedom.
– Dan Romik
15 mins ago
add a comment |
I agree with the other answers that you should e-mail the department chair. Additionally, I would suggest that you advise the student that he has options to solve this himself even without your intervention. You are his advisor, so advise him, don't just try to solve it for him. E.g. your university may have an Ombudsman, suggest that he talk to them. The department/college/university may have a formal process that he could use to lodge a complaint or appeal the grade. Explain to him how this process works and send him the relevant information. Your university may have a student government or student association that lobbies/advocates for students' interests that may be able to take up his cause. And if all else fails, there is always "name and shame": a well placed headline in the student newspaper or local TV news station like "Prof flunks students for being fat" would gather a lot of interest (note: definitely use this option only if all others have failed)
add a comment |
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As an outsider this seems ridiculous. I think a quick email to the chair of the department saying that you have an advisee who is worried about BIO302 (or whatever the number is) and the running component. It seems reasonable to ask if that is actually a requirement (which it clearly is, but the department chair may not know it) and if it is, what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. That should get the ball moving.
1
what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. You can’t be serious. If you heard about a woman being discriminated against, would you ask what course was better suited for women? That’s a strange way of expressing concern about behavior that’s so very clearly unacceptable.
– Dan Romik
6 hours ago
6
I think Strong's point is that OP can bring this to the chair's attention by asking some very innocuous questions. If the chair's response is not sufficiently forceful, OP may then need to state their concerns more clearly.
– cag51
6 hours ago
1
@cag51 I don’t think the question is innocuous at all. Among other problems, asking it would reflect poorly on OP, suggesting that he is timid, lacks the small amount of confidence and assertiveness that is required to point out an obvious truth about someone’s blatantly unacceptable behavior, and prefers being disingenuous to direct and clear communication. Moreover, in the unlikely but very possible scenario that the chair is uninterested in doing anything about the problem, the question gives them the perfect excuse to ignore it or drag their feet in responding.
– Dan Romik
5 hours ago
2
@DanRomik I rarely find rocking the boat helpful especially outside the normal hierarchy. If talking to the chair of the other department didn't get things resolved, and I think it would, I would then bring my chair into it. If that didn't do it, I would go to the dean. I would never suggest confronting the chair of another department.
– StrongBad♦
5 hours ago
1
@StrongBad to be clear, my suggested course of action does not call for “confronting” the chair any more than yours does. It sounds like we both basically agree that OP should contact the chair and express concern about the teaching practices he heard about in the other professor’s microbiology class. Where I disagree is with your recommendation that OP should mask his concern by asking disingenuous questions. That still leaves a lot of reasonable wiggle room for how explicit or forceful the expression of concern should be, and one can certainly go about it in a tactful, diplomatic manner.
– Dan Romik
5 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
As an outsider this seems ridiculous. I think a quick email to the chair of the department saying that you have an advisee who is worried about BIO302 (or whatever the number is) and the running component. It seems reasonable to ask if that is actually a requirement (which it clearly is, but the department chair may not know it) and if it is, what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. That should get the ball moving.
1
what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. You can’t be serious. If you heard about a woman being discriminated against, would you ask what course was better suited for women? That’s a strange way of expressing concern about behavior that’s so very clearly unacceptable.
– Dan Romik
6 hours ago
6
I think Strong's point is that OP can bring this to the chair's attention by asking some very innocuous questions. If the chair's response is not sufficiently forceful, OP may then need to state their concerns more clearly.
– cag51
6 hours ago
1
@cag51 I don’t think the question is innocuous at all. Among other problems, asking it would reflect poorly on OP, suggesting that he is timid, lacks the small amount of confidence and assertiveness that is required to point out an obvious truth about someone’s blatantly unacceptable behavior, and prefers being disingenuous to direct and clear communication. Moreover, in the unlikely but very possible scenario that the chair is uninterested in doing anything about the problem, the question gives them the perfect excuse to ignore it or drag their feet in responding.
– Dan Romik
5 hours ago
2
@DanRomik I rarely find rocking the boat helpful especially outside the normal hierarchy. If talking to the chair of the other department didn't get things resolved, and I think it would, I would then bring my chair into it. If that didn't do it, I would go to the dean. I would never suggest confronting the chair of another department.
– StrongBad♦
5 hours ago
1
@StrongBad to be clear, my suggested course of action does not call for “confronting” the chair any more than yours does. It sounds like we both basically agree that OP should contact the chair and express concern about the teaching practices he heard about in the other professor’s microbiology class. Where I disagree is with your recommendation that OP should mask his concern by asking disingenuous questions. That still leaves a lot of reasonable wiggle room for how explicit or forceful the expression of concern should be, and one can certainly go about it in a tactful, diplomatic manner.
– Dan Romik
5 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
As an outsider this seems ridiculous. I think a quick email to the chair of the department saying that you have an advisee who is worried about BIO302 (or whatever the number is) and the running component. It seems reasonable to ask if that is actually a requirement (which it clearly is, but the department chair may not know it) and if it is, what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. That should get the ball moving.
As an outsider this seems ridiculous. I think a quick email to the chair of the department saying that you have an advisee who is worried about BIO302 (or whatever the number is) and the running component. It seems reasonable to ask if that is actually a requirement (which it clearly is, but the department chair may not know it) and if it is, what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. That should get the ball moving.
answered 9 hours ago
StrongBad♦StrongBad
90.5k24 gold badges226 silver badges443 bronze badges
90.5k24 gold badges226 silver badges443 bronze badges
1
what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. You can’t be serious. If you heard about a woman being discriminated against, would you ask what course was better suited for women? That’s a strange way of expressing concern about behavior that’s so very clearly unacceptable.
– Dan Romik
6 hours ago
6
I think Strong's point is that OP can bring this to the chair's attention by asking some very innocuous questions. If the chair's response is not sufficiently forceful, OP may then need to state their concerns more clearly.
– cag51
6 hours ago
1
@cag51 I don’t think the question is innocuous at all. Among other problems, asking it would reflect poorly on OP, suggesting that he is timid, lacks the small amount of confidence and assertiveness that is required to point out an obvious truth about someone’s blatantly unacceptable behavior, and prefers being disingenuous to direct and clear communication. Moreover, in the unlikely but very possible scenario that the chair is uninterested in doing anything about the problem, the question gives them the perfect excuse to ignore it or drag their feet in responding.
– Dan Romik
5 hours ago
2
@DanRomik I rarely find rocking the boat helpful especially outside the normal hierarchy. If talking to the chair of the other department didn't get things resolved, and I think it would, I would then bring my chair into it. If that didn't do it, I would go to the dean. I would never suggest confronting the chair of another department.
– StrongBad♦
5 hours ago
1
@StrongBad to be clear, my suggested course of action does not call for “confronting” the chair any more than yours does. It sounds like we both basically agree that OP should contact the chair and express concern about the teaching practices he heard about in the other professor’s microbiology class. Where I disagree is with your recommendation that OP should mask his concern by asking disingenuous questions. That still leaves a lot of reasonable wiggle room for how explicit or forceful the expression of concern should be, and one can certainly go about it in a tactful, diplomatic manner.
– Dan Romik
5 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
1
what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. You can’t be serious. If you heard about a woman being discriminated against, would you ask what course was better suited for women? That’s a strange way of expressing concern about behavior that’s so very clearly unacceptable.
– Dan Romik
6 hours ago
6
I think Strong's point is that OP can bring this to the chair's attention by asking some very innocuous questions. If the chair's response is not sufficiently forceful, OP may then need to state their concerns more clearly.
– cag51
6 hours ago
1
@cag51 I don’t think the question is innocuous at all. Among other problems, asking it would reflect poorly on OP, suggesting that he is timid, lacks the small amount of confidence and assertiveness that is required to point out an obvious truth about someone’s blatantly unacceptable behavior, and prefers being disingenuous to direct and clear communication. Moreover, in the unlikely but very possible scenario that the chair is uninterested in doing anything about the problem, the question gives them the perfect excuse to ignore it or drag their feet in responding.
– Dan Romik
5 hours ago
2
@DanRomik I rarely find rocking the boat helpful especially outside the normal hierarchy. If talking to the chair of the other department didn't get things resolved, and I think it would, I would then bring my chair into it. If that didn't do it, I would go to the dean. I would never suggest confronting the chair of another department.
– StrongBad♦
5 hours ago
1
@StrongBad to be clear, my suggested course of action does not call for “confronting” the chair any more than yours does. It sounds like we both basically agree that OP should contact the chair and express concern about the teaching practices he heard about in the other professor’s microbiology class. Where I disagree is with your recommendation that OP should mask his concern by asking disingenuous questions. That still leaves a lot of reasonable wiggle room for how explicit or forceful the expression of concern should be, and one can certainly go about it in a tactful, diplomatic manner.
– Dan Romik
5 mins ago
1
1
what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. You can’t be serious. If you heard about a woman being discriminated against, would you ask what course was better suited for women? That’s a strange way of expressing concern about behavior that’s so very clearly unacceptable.
– Dan Romik
6 hours ago
what course would be better suited for a student who is not interested in running. You can’t be serious. If you heard about a woman being discriminated against, would you ask what course was better suited for women? That’s a strange way of expressing concern about behavior that’s so very clearly unacceptable.
– Dan Romik
6 hours ago
6
6
I think Strong's point is that OP can bring this to the chair's attention by asking some very innocuous questions. If the chair's response is not sufficiently forceful, OP may then need to state their concerns more clearly.
– cag51
6 hours ago
I think Strong's point is that OP can bring this to the chair's attention by asking some very innocuous questions. If the chair's response is not sufficiently forceful, OP may then need to state their concerns more clearly.
– cag51
6 hours ago
1
1
@cag51 I don’t think the question is innocuous at all. Among other problems, asking it would reflect poorly on OP, suggesting that he is timid, lacks the small amount of confidence and assertiveness that is required to point out an obvious truth about someone’s blatantly unacceptable behavior, and prefers being disingenuous to direct and clear communication. Moreover, in the unlikely but very possible scenario that the chair is uninterested in doing anything about the problem, the question gives them the perfect excuse to ignore it or drag their feet in responding.
– Dan Romik
5 hours ago
@cag51 I don’t think the question is innocuous at all. Among other problems, asking it would reflect poorly on OP, suggesting that he is timid, lacks the small amount of confidence and assertiveness that is required to point out an obvious truth about someone’s blatantly unacceptable behavior, and prefers being disingenuous to direct and clear communication. Moreover, in the unlikely but very possible scenario that the chair is uninterested in doing anything about the problem, the question gives them the perfect excuse to ignore it or drag their feet in responding.
– Dan Romik
5 hours ago
2
2
@DanRomik I rarely find rocking the boat helpful especially outside the normal hierarchy. If talking to the chair of the other department didn't get things resolved, and I think it would, I would then bring my chair into it. If that didn't do it, I would go to the dean. I would never suggest confronting the chair of another department.
– StrongBad♦
5 hours ago
@DanRomik I rarely find rocking the boat helpful especially outside the normal hierarchy. If talking to the chair of the other department didn't get things resolved, and I think it would, I would then bring my chair into it. If that didn't do it, I would go to the dean. I would never suggest confronting the chair of another department.
– StrongBad♦
5 hours ago
1
1
@StrongBad to be clear, my suggested course of action does not call for “confronting” the chair any more than yours does. It sounds like we both basically agree that OP should contact the chair and express concern about the teaching practices he heard about in the other professor’s microbiology class. Where I disagree is with your recommendation that OP should mask his concern by asking disingenuous questions. That still leaves a lot of reasonable wiggle room for how explicit or forceful the expression of concern should be, and one can certainly go about it in a tactful, diplomatic manner.
– Dan Romik
5 mins ago
@StrongBad to be clear, my suggested course of action does not call for “confronting” the chair any more than yours does. It sounds like we both basically agree that OP should contact the chair and express concern about the teaching practices he heard about in the other professor’s microbiology class. Where I disagree is with your recommendation that OP should mask his concern by asking disingenuous questions. That still leaves a lot of reasonable wiggle room for how explicit or forceful the expression of concern should be, and one can certainly go about it in a tactful, diplomatic manner.
– Dan Romik
5 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
The student's health status or physique is not of consideration here. If the situation is as the student described, the prof's behavior is simply untenable -- if for no other reason than 25% of contact hours being spent on nonsense. Every student in the class should be incensed. The TAs should be upset that they're spending their time this way.
The chair of the relevant department is the appropriate point of contact. When communicating with the Chair, include that you're passing the student's story along without verification, but you felt the story odd enough that you felt compelled to bring it to the Chair's attention.
While I might agree in general, there is more to an education than "lecture time".
– Buffy
8 hours ago
2
@Buffy absolutely - it's the "nonsense" part that gets to me. Perhaps "contact time" is a better phrase here.
– Scott Seidman
8 hours ago
Actually, I think the professor's opinions and goals should be explored before making judgements about "nonsense". Even "contact time". My philosophy is that the only thing that really matters is what the students do. There are a lot of ways for me to arrange that appropriately.
– Buffy
8 hours ago
3
I'd love to see which of his course outcomes he is using this as an assessment for.
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
3
I think the profs goals will be amply explored, likely in the form of a question of the form "what were you thinking?"
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
add a comment |
The student's health status or physique is not of consideration here. If the situation is as the student described, the prof's behavior is simply untenable -- if for no other reason than 25% of contact hours being spent on nonsense. Every student in the class should be incensed. The TAs should be upset that they're spending their time this way.
The chair of the relevant department is the appropriate point of contact. When communicating with the Chair, include that you're passing the student's story along without verification, but you felt the story odd enough that you felt compelled to bring it to the Chair's attention.
While I might agree in general, there is more to an education than "lecture time".
– Buffy
8 hours ago
2
@Buffy absolutely - it's the "nonsense" part that gets to me. Perhaps "contact time" is a better phrase here.
– Scott Seidman
8 hours ago
Actually, I think the professor's opinions and goals should be explored before making judgements about "nonsense". Even "contact time". My philosophy is that the only thing that really matters is what the students do. There are a lot of ways for me to arrange that appropriately.
– Buffy
8 hours ago
3
I'd love to see which of his course outcomes he is using this as an assessment for.
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
3
I think the profs goals will be amply explored, likely in the form of a question of the form "what were you thinking?"
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
add a comment |
The student's health status or physique is not of consideration here. If the situation is as the student described, the prof's behavior is simply untenable -- if for no other reason than 25% of contact hours being spent on nonsense. Every student in the class should be incensed. The TAs should be upset that they're spending their time this way.
The chair of the relevant department is the appropriate point of contact. When communicating with the Chair, include that you're passing the student's story along without verification, but you felt the story odd enough that you felt compelled to bring it to the Chair's attention.
The student's health status or physique is not of consideration here. If the situation is as the student described, the prof's behavior is simply untenable -- if for no other reason than 25% of contact hours being spent on nonsense. Every student in the class should be incensed. The TAs should be upset that they're spending their time this way.
The chair of the relevant department is the appropriate point of contact. When communicating with the Chair, include that you're passing the student's story along without verification, but you felt the story odd enough that you felt compelled to bring it to the Chair's attention.
edited 8 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Scott SeidmanScott Seidman
16.3k3 gold badges32 silver badges74 bronze badges
16.3k3 gold badges32 silver badges74 bronze badges
While I might agree in general, there is more to an education than "lecture time".
– Buffy
8 hours ago
2
@Buffy absolutely - it's the "nonsense" part that gets to me. Perhaps "contact time" is a better phrase here.
– Scott Seidman
8 hours ago
Actually, I think the professor's opinions and goals should be explored before making judgements about "nonsense". Even "contact time". My philosophy is that the only thing that really matters is what the students do. There are a lot of ways for me to arrange that appropriately.
– Buffy
8 hours ago
3
I'd love to see which of his course outcomes he is using this as an assessment for.
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
3
I think the profs goals will be amply explored, likely in the form of a question of the form "what were you thinking?"
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
add a comment |
While I might agree in general, there is more to an education than "lecture time".
– Buffy
8 hours ago
2
@Buffy absolutely - it's the "nonsense" part that gets to me. Perhaps "contact time" is a better phrase here.
– Scott Seidman
8 hours ago
Actually, I think the professor's opinions and goals should be explored before making judgements about "nonsense". Even "contact time". My philosophy is that the only thing that really matters is what the students do. There are a lot of ways for me to arrange that appropriately.
– Buffy
8 hours ago
3
I'd love to see which of his course outcomes he is using this as an assessment for.
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
3
I think the profs goals will be amply explored, likely in the form of a question of the form "what were you thinking?"
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
While I might agree in general, there is more to an education than "lecture time".
– Buffy
8 hours ago
While I might agree in general, there is more to an education than "lecture time".
– Buffy
8 hours ago
2
2
@Buffy absolutely - it's the "nonsense" part that gets to me. Perhaps "contact time" is a better phrase here.
– Scott Seidman
8 hours ago
@Buffy absolutely - it's the "nonsense" part that gets to me. Perhaps "contact time" is a better phrase here.
– Scott Seidman
8 hours ago
Actually, I think the professor's opinions and goals should be explored before making judgements about "nonsense". Even "contact time". My philosophy is that the only thing that really matters is what the students do. There are a lot of ways for me to arrange that appropriately.
– Buffy
8 hours ago
Actually, I think the professor's opinions and goals should be explored before making judgements about "nonsense". Even "contact time". My philosophy is that the only thing that really matters is what the students do. There are a lot of ways for me to arrange that appropriately.
– Buffy
8 hours ago
3
3
I'd love to see which of his course outcomes he is using this as an assessment for.
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
I'd love to see which of his course outcomes he is using this as an assessment for.
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
3
3
I think the profs goals will be amply explored, likely in the form of a question of the form "what were you thinking?"
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
I think the profs goals will be amply explored, likely in the form of a question of the form "what were you thinking?"
– Scott Seidman
6 hours ago
add a comment |
If the class is about microbiology, the students’ grade should depend on their knowledge of microbiology, and only on that.
I’ll assume based on OP’s description that this is taking place in the US. Even though I’m not a lawyer I would bet money that for the professor to tie grades in an academic class to athletic performance would constitute an obvious and blatant violation of one or more US laws. It very likely would also violate various policies of your university. For example, at my university the faculty code of conduct has a concept of “failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction”, which I know for a fact would cover the case of a professor spending a large amount of the class’s time on activities that are unrelated to the topic of the course.
Should I intervene when a colleague in a different department makes students run laps as part of their grade?
Obviously yes. You are the student’s undergraduate adviser. That makes you precisely the person positioned to help him when he is being treated in an abusive and probably illegal way by one of his professors.
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department?
Either of those persons sound like appropriate people to talk to. The chair would be the most appropriate, being the person directly above the misbehaving professor in the institutional hierarchy, so I suggest going to them, unless you have some specific reason to fear retaliation or other adverse consequences if you proceed in this way.
The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany.
This is irrelevant. If the professor graded his students based on their looks, how much money they have, the number of hot dogs they can wolf down in 10 minutes, or any other similar criterion unrelated to their knowledge of microbiology, we would not be talking about the professor’s zaniness. Neither should we be talking about it in the current equally absurd scenario.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
Any leeway a microbiology professor should or should not be given would be appropriate to discuss in the context of how they teach microbiology, and how they evaluate students’ knowledge of microbiology. What the professor is doing here is entirely unrelated to such activities, and as such, no leeway applies. As with the mention of zaniness, “leeway” is not even a relevant factor to discuss.
3
+1. In my opinion the abusive component amounts to a form of bullying and probably discrimination: nobody should get a lower grade in a theoretical course for being overweight. This professor is a liability to their institution.
– Erwan
5 hours ago
"graded based on ... how much money they have". I mean, if they have a million in unmarked bills, the university hasn't given us a COLA in four years.... (Kidding, of course. Sadly not about the lack of COLA)
– guifa
4 hours ago
1
Grades almost always depend on more than the pure academic content of the course topic. Such as public speaking skills, language skills, research skills. And beyond that, things like making students tell about themselves and other ice-breaking activities are thought to be helpful to learning. This instructor could easily make an argument about how this activity is valuable and falls under academic freedom, making a big fight out of it at least. The school of course has the ability to exempt students and adjust grades meanwhile.
– A Simple Algorithm
3 hours ago
@ASimpleAlgorithm I disagree that “the instructor could easily make an argument”. They could try, but they couldn’t make the argument because such an argument has no merit; athletic performance has no connection whatsoever to microbiology. The behavior described in this question does not fall under the scope of academic freedom.
– Dan Romik
15 mins ago
add a comment |
If the class is about microbiology, the students’ grade should depend on their knowledge of microbiology, and only on that.
I’ll assume based on OP’s description that this is taking place in the US. Even though I’m not a lawyer I would bet money that for the professor to tie grades in an academic class to athletic performance would constitute an obvious and blatant violation of one or more US laws. It very likely would also violate various policies of your university. For example, at my university the faculty code of conduct has a concept of “failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction”, which I know for a fact would cover the case of a professor spending a large amount of the class’s time on activities that are unrelated to the topic of the course.
Should I intervene when a colleague in a different department makes students run laps as part of their grade?
Obviously yes. You are the student’s undergraduate adviser. That makes you precisely the person positioned to help him when he is being treated in an abusive and probably illegal way by one of his professors.
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department?
Either of those persons sound like appropriate people to talk to. The chair would be the most appropriate, being the person directly above the misbehaving professor in the institutional hierarchy, so I suggest going to them, unless you have some specific reason to fear retaliation or other adverse consequences if you proceed in this way.
The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany.
This is irrelevant. If the professor graded his students based on their looks, how much money they have, the number of hot dogs they can wolf down in 10 minutes, or any other similar criterion unrelated to their knowledge of microbiology, we would not be talking about the professor’s zaniness. Neither should we be talking about it in the current equally absurd scenario.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
Any leeway a microbiology professor should or should not be given would be appropriate to discuss in the context of how they teach microbiology, and how they evaluate students’ knowledge of microbiology. What the professor is doing here is entirely unrelated to such activities, and as such, no leeway applies. As with the mention of zaniness, “leeway” is not even a relevant factor to discuss.
3
+1. In my opinion the abusive component amounts to a form of bullying and probably discrimination: nobody should get a lower grade in a theoretical course for being overweight. This professor is a liability to their institution.
– Erwan
5 hours ago
"graded based on ... how much money they have". I mean, if they have a million in unmarked bills, the university hasn't given us a COLA in four years.... (Kidding, of course. Sadly not about the lack of COLA)
– guifa
4 hours ago
1
Grades almost always depend on more than the pure academic content of the course topic. Such as public speaking skills, language skills, research skills. And beyond that, things like making students tell about themselves and other ice-breaking activities are thought to be helpful to learning. This instructor could easily make an argument about how this activity is valuable and falls under academic freedom, making a big fight out of it at least. The school of course has the ability to exempt students and adjust grades meanwhile.
– A Simple Algorithm
3 hours ago
@ASimpleAlgorithm I disagree that “the instructor could easily make an argument”. They could try, but they couldn’t make the argument because such an argument has no merit; athletic performance has no connection whatsoever to microbiology. The behavior described in this question does not fall under the scope of academic freedom.
– Dan Romik
15 mins ago
add a comment |
If the class is about microbiology, the students’ grade should depend on their knowledge of microbiology, and only on that.
I’ll assume based on OP’s description that this is taking place in the US. Even though I’m not a lawyer I would bet money that for the professor to tie grades in an academic class to athletic performance would constitute an obvious and blatant violation of one or more US laws. It very likely would also violate various policies of your university. For example, at my university the faculty code of conduct has a concept of “failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction”, which I know for a fact would cover the case of a professor spending a large amount of the class’s time on activities that are unrelated to the topic of the course.
Should I intervene when a colleague in a different department makes students run laps as part of their grade?
Obviously yes. You are the student’s undergraduate adviser. That makes you precisely the person positioned to help him when he is being treated in an abusive and probably illegal way by one of his professors.
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department?
Either of those persons sound like appropriate people to talk to. The chair would be the most appropriate, being the person directly above the misbehaving professor in the institutional hierarchy, so I suggest going to them, unless you have some specific reason to fear retaliation or other adverse consequences if you proceed in this way.
The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany.
This is irrelevant. If the professor graded his students based on their looks, how much money they have, the number of hot dogs they can wolf down in 10 minutes, or any other similar criterion unrelated to their knowledge of microbiology, we would not be talking about the professor’s zaniness. Neither should we be talking about it in the current equally absurd scenario.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
Any leeway a microbiology professor should or should not be given would be appropriate to discuss in the context of how they teach microbiology, and how they evaluate students’ knowledge of microbiology. What the professor is doing here is entirely unrelated to such activities, and as such, no leeway applies. As with the mention of zaniness, “leeway” is not even a relevant factor to discuss.
If the class is about microbiology, the students’ grade should depend on their knowledge of microbiology, and only on that.
I’ll assume based on OP’s description that this is taking place in the US. Even though I’m not a lawyer I would bet money that for the professor to tie grades in an academic class to athletic performance would constitute an obvious and blatant violation of one or more US laws. It very likely would also violate various policies of your university. For example, at my university the faculty code of conduct has a concept of “failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction”, which I know for a fact would cover the case of a professor spending a large amount of the class’s time on activities that are unrelated to the topic of the course.
Should I intervene when a colleague in a different department makes students run laps as part of their grade?
Obviously yes. You are the student’s undergraduate adviser. That makes you precisely the person positioned to help him when he is being treated in an abusive and probably illegal way by one of his professors.
How do I proceed? Do I talk to the dean? Do I talk to the head of the microbiology department?
Either of those persons sound like appropriate people to talk to. The chair would be the most appropriate, being the person directly above the misbehaving professor in the institutional hierarchy, so I suggest going to them, unless you have some specific reason to fear retaliation or other adverse consequences if you proceed in this way.
The professor of the class is a long time professor at the university. He is known for being a bit zany.
This is irrelevant. If the professor graded his students based on their looks, how much money they have, the number of hot dogs they can wolf down in 10 minutes, or any other similar criterion unrelated to their knowledge of microbiology, we would not be talking about the professor’s zaniness. Neither should we be talking about it in the current equally absurd scenario.
How much leeway should a professor be given to determine what "counts" in his or her class?
Any leeway a microbiology professor should or should not be given would be appropriate to discuss in the context of how they teach microbiology, and how they evaluate students’ knowledge of microbiology. What the professor is doing here is entirely unrelated to such activities, and as such, no leeway applies. As with the mention of zaniness, “leeway” is not even a relevant factor to discuss.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
Dan RomikDan Romik
89.9k22 gold badges196 silver badges300 bronze badges
89.9k22 gold badges196 silver badges300 bronze badges
3
+1. In my opinion the abusive component amounts to a form of bullying and probably discrimination: nobody should get a lower grade in a theoretical course for being overweight. This professor is a liability to their institution.
– Erwan
5 hours ago
"graded based on ... how much money they have". I mean, if they have a million in unmarked bills, the university hasn't given us a COLA in four years.... (Kidding, of course. Sadly not about the lack of COLA)
– guifa
4 hours ago
1
Grades almost always depend on more than the pure academic content of the course topic. Such as public speaking skills, language skills, research skills. And beyond that, things like making students tell about themselves and other ice-breaking activities are thought to be helpful to learning. This instructor could easily make an argument about how this activity is valuable and falls under academic freedom, making a big fight out of it at least. The school of course has the ability to exempt students and adjust grades meanwhile.
– A Simple Algorithm
3 hours ago
@ASimpleAlgorithm I disagree that “the instructor could easily make an argument”. They could try, but they couldn’t make the argument because such an argument has no merit; athletic performance has no connection whatsoever to microbiology. The behavior described in this question does not fall under the scope of academic freedom.
– Dan Romik
15 mins ago
add a comment |
3
+1. In my opinion the abusive component amounts to a form of bullying and probably discrimination: nobody should get a lower grade in a theoretical course for being overweight. This professor is a liability to their institution.
– Erwan
5 hours ago
"graded based on ... how much money they have". I mean, if they have a million in unmarked bills, the university hasn't given us a COLA in four years.... (Kidding, of course. Sadly not about the lack of COLA)
– guifa
4 hours ago
1
Grades almost always depend on more than the pure academic content of the course topic. Such as public speaking skills, language skills, research skills. And beyond that, things like making students tell about themselves and other ice-breaking activities are thought to be helpful to learning. This instructor could easily make an argument about how this activity is valuable and falls under academic freedom, making a big fight out of it at least. The school of course has the ability to exempt students and adjust grades meanwhile.
– A Simple Algorithm
3 hours ago
@ASimpleAlgorithm I disagree that “the instructor could easily make an argument”. They could try, but they couldn’t make the argument because such an argument has no merit; athletic performance has no connection whatsoever to microbiology. The behavior described in this question does not fall under the scope of academic freedom.
– Dan Romik
15 mins ago
3
3
+1. In my opinion the abusive component amounts to a form of bullying and probably discrimination: nobody should get a lower grade in a theoretical course for being overweight. This professor is a liability to their institution.
– Erwan
5 hours ago
+1. In my opinion the abusive component amounts to a form of bullying and probably discrimination: nobody should get a lower grade in a theoretical course for being overweight. This professor is a liability to their institution.
– Erwan
5 hours ago
"graded based on ... how much money they have". I mean, if they have a million in unmarked bills, the university hasn't given us a COLA in four years.... (Kidding, of course. Sadly not about the lack of COLA)
– guifa
4 hours ago
"graded based on ... how much money they have". I mean, if they have a million in unmarked bills, the university hasn't given us a COLA in four years.... (Kidding, of course. Sadly not about the lack of COLA)
– guifa
4 hours ago
1
1
Grades almost always depend on more than the pure academic content of the course topic. Such as public speaking skills, language skills, research skills. And beyond that, things like making students tell about themselves and other ice-breaking activities are thought to be helpful to learning. This instructor could easily make an argument about how this activity is valuable and falls under academic freedom, making a big fight out of it at least. The school of course has the ability to exempt students and adjust grades meanwhile.
– A Simple Algorithm
3 hours ago
Grades almost always depend on more than the pure academic content of the course topic. Such as public speaking skills, language skills, research skills. And beyond that, things like making students tell about themselves and other ice-breaking activities are thought to be helpful to learning. This instructor could easily make an argument about how this activity is valuable and falls under academic freedom, making a big fight out of it at least. The school of course has the ability to exempt students and adjust grades meanwhile.
– A Simple Algorithm
3 hours ago
@ASimpleAlgorithm I disagree that “the instructor could easily make an argument”. They could try, but they couldn’t make the argument because such an argument has no merit; athletic performance has no connection whatsoever to microbiology. The behavior described in this question does not fall under the scope of academic freedom.
– Dan Romik
15 mins ago
@ASimpleAlgorithm I disagree that “the instructor could easily make an argument”. They could try, but they couldn’t make the argument because such an argument has no merit; athletic performance has no connection whatsoever to microbiology. The behavior described in this question does not fall under the scope of academic freedom.
– Dan Romik
15 mins ago
add a comment |
I agree with the other answers that you should e-mail the department chair. Additionally, I would suggest that you advise the student that he has options to solve this himself even without your intervention. You are his advisor, so advise him, don't just try to solve it for him. E.g. your university may have an Ombudsman, suggest that he talk to them. The department/college/university may have a formal process that he could use to lodge a complaint or appeal the grade. Explain to him how this process works and send him the relevant information. Your university may have a student government or student association that lobbies/advocates for students' interests that may be able to take up his cause. And if all else fails, there is always "name and shame": a well placed headline in the student newspaper or local TV news station like "Prof flunks students for being fat" would gather a lot of interest (note: definitely use this option only if all others have failed)
add a comment |
I agree with the other answers that you should e-mail the department chair. Additionally, I would suggest that you advise the student that he has options to solve this himself even without your intervention. You are his advisor, so advise him, don't just try to solve it for him. E.g. your university may have an Ombudsman, suggest that he talk to them. The department/college/university may have a formal process that he could use to lodge a complaint or appeal the grade. Explain to him how this process works and send him the relevant information. Your university may have a student government or student association that lobbies/advocates for students' interests that may be able to take up his cause. And if all else fails, there is always "name and shame": a well placed headline in the student newspaper or local TV news station like "Prof flunks students for being fat" would gather a lot of interest (note: definitely use this option only if all others have failed)
add a comment |
I agree with the other answers that you should e-mail the department chair. Additionally, I would suggest that you advise the student that he has options to solve this himself even without your intervention. You are his advisor, so advise him, don't just try to solve it for him. E.g. your university may have an Ombudsman, suggest that he talk to them. The department/college/university may have a formal process that he could use to lodge a complaint or appeal the grade. Explain to him how this process works and send him the relevant information. Your university may have a student government or student association that lobbies/advocates for students' interests that may be able to take up his cause. And if all else fails, there is always "name and shame": a well placed headline in the student newspaper or local TV news station like "Prof flunks students for being fat" would gather a lot of interest (note: definitely use this option only if all others have failed)
I agree with the other answers that you should e-mail the department chair. Additionally, I would suggest that you advise the student that he has options to solve this himself even without your intervention. You are his advisor, so advise him, don't just try to solve it for him. E.g. your university may have an Ombudsman, suggest that he talk to them. The department/college/university may have a formal process that he could use to lodge a complaint or appeal the grade. Explain to him how this process works and send him the relevant information. Your university may have a student government or student association that lobbies/advocates for students' interests that may be able to take up his cause. And if all else fails, there is always "name and shame": a well placed headline in the student newspaper or local TV news station like "Prof flunks students for being fat" would gather a lot of interest (note: definitely use this option only if all others have failed)
answered 5 hours ago
Daniel KiracofeDaniel Kiracofe
1705 bronze badges
1705 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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I suggest, strongly, that you talk to that professor and then make a judgement about the requirements and their appropriateness.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
3
If you asked me 30 years ago the question "Can a professor arbitrarily grade students on the basis of X", I would have told you that, yes, they virtually could, and from your description of the professor I suspect he is a relic of those olden times.
– Massimo Ortolano
9 hours ago
1
@MassimoOrtolano I think that technically it is 1600m (4 x 400m). And note that there is no stated time limit such as 6 minutes. I will admit that I think the student should be able to actually walk a mile (1600m) in 15 minutes at the very worst. But it shouldn't be part of the grade.
– Vladhagen
9 hours ago
10
The general health advice for working with obese persons is to start small, adding even 5 minutes of physically activity at first if that is their current physical condition. A doctor suggesting an obese person start by running a mile, without having received even a basic health checkup to ensure that this is safe and suggested, could literally end up killing a patient (or this student) by insisting they engage in physical activity more strenuous than their body is currently in a condition to handle. And this person wants to train doctors? Someone should certainly step in before too late.
– BrianH
9 hours ago
3
In addition to the fact that, as BrianH has mentioned, this may be physically detrimental to the student (and thus hypocritical as well as dangerous), there is also the issue that the university, and the students, are paying a 'microbiology' professor for sitting around for 10 teaching hours per month counting a handful of students do laps, which an illiterate 7 year-old could be usefully paid to do instead, were not (quite rightly, need it be said) illegal. And had I paid for a university education and been forced to do something detrimental to my wellbeing (either mental or physical) ...
– Araucaria
8 hours ago