Lumens specs when buying a flashlight/torch. Why maglite has only 680lm but cheap ones have 900,000?Why are there only RGB and RGBW-LEDs, but none with more chips inside one housing?

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Lumens specs when buying a flashlight/torch. Why maglite has only 680lm but cheap ones have 900,000?


Why are there only RGB and RGBW-LEDs, but none with more chips inside one housing?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








3












$begingroup$


I am working as a night delivery driver and when its dark and/or rainy it's almost impossible to read many of the house numbers/names I am looking for.



I've heard of Maglite and in fact my friend has a large Maglite which is 680lm and very powerful but it cost him a fair bit and uses huge batteries.



I look on auction website and see ones boasting 900,000 lumen output! (for about £5 :D) I then google 'worlds most powerful flashlight' and it seems one made by 'Wicked Lasers' is considered one of the most powerful at 4,100 lumens. (https://www.wickedlasers.com/torch)



So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens. And how can i trust the output specs on any advert? (is there any other spec I should be checking)?



Really need it soon, and I need to be able to see stuff that is about 20-30 metres away in heavy rain at night.



Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks



(Ps. I could put links showing the adverts boasting 900,000lm but didnt want to put their links anywhere in case they are a scam)



Additional Edit:-
Well I have continued looking and the specs vary massively. This one I am thinking of buying boasts 20,000 lumens and 500m range. But it only takes 1x AAA battery ??!?!? - Surely this cannot be 20x more powerful than a top Maglite? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tactical-20000LM-L2-Zoomable-LED-Flashlight-Rechargeable-battery-Torch-with-BOX/322609536378?epid=16031184130&hash=item4b1d06dd7a:g:SwQAAOSwmcNdIJWc)



Conclusion:
For what it's worth I decided not to buy a 'No-name' brand. And after finding this one at Toolstation: https://www.toolstation.com/ledlenser-tt-police-tactical-torch/p41307
I realised their pricing is actually very competitive. It is a few quid cheaper in Toolstation than the same torch is on Amazon or ebay.
I can just go into the shop and buy it today :D



I am happy now, thanks again all you guys. PS. You have inspired me to begin learning electronics as a new hobby too










share|improve this question









New contributor



Big T Larrity is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    By any chance is it actually 900,000 candlepower rather than lumens?
    $endgroup$
    – 1N4007
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Are you taking into account lumen vs lux vs candela? A standard 60W lighbulb easily produces 800-1000 lumens.
    $endgroup$
    – EasyOhm
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    hi mate, i don't think so. Many adverts there specifying lumens but most are well over 10000 lumens. I edited by question because I am close to buying one. I hate putting links but there is one directly to the one i might buy
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago






  • 10




    $begingroup$
    They lie. It's as simple as that.
    $endgroup$
    – Janka
    8 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    My quick first impression from that ebay listing is: "Lies, lies, lies".
    $endgroup$
    – Jack B
    8 hours ago

















3












$begingroup$


I am working as a night delivery driver and when its dark and/or rainy it's almost impossible to read many of the house numbers/names I am looking for.



I've heard of Maglite and in fact my friend has a large Maglite which is 680lm and very powerful but it cost him a fair bit and uses huge batteries.



I look on auction website and see ones boasting 900,000 lumen output! (for about £5 :D) I then google 'worlds most powerful flashlight' and it seems one made by 'Wicked Lasers' is considered one of the most powerful at 4,100 lumens. (https://www.wickedlasers.com/torch)



So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens. And how can i trust the output specs on any advert? (is there any other spec I should be checking)?



Really need it soon, and I need to be able to see stuff that is about 20-30 metres away in heavy rain at night.



Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks



(Ps. I could put links showing the adverts boasting 900,000lm but didnt want to put their links anywhere in case they are a scam)



Additional Edit:-
Well I have continued looking and the specs vary massively. This one I am thinking of buying boasts 20,000 lumens and 500m range. But it only takes 1x AAA battery ??!?!? - Surely this cannot be 20x more powerful than a top Maglite? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tactical-20000LM-L2-Zoomable-LED-Flashlight-Rechargeable-battery-Torch-with-BOX/322609536378?epid=16031184130&hash=item4b1d06dd7a:g:SwQAAOSwmcNdIJWc)



Conclusion:
For what it's worth I decided not to buy a 'No-name' brand. And after finding this one at Toolstation: https://www.toolstation.com/ledlenser-tt-police-tactical-torch/p41307
I realised their pricing is actually very competitive. It is a few quid cheaper in Toolstation than the same torch is on Amazon or ebay.
I can just go into the shop and buy it today :D



I am happy now, thanks again all you guys. PS. You have inspired me to begin learning electronics as a new hobby too










share|improve this question









New contributor



Big T Larrity is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    By any chance is it actually 900,000 candlepower rather than lumens?
    $endgroup$
    – 1N4007
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Are you taking into account lumen vs lux vs candela? A standard 60W lighbulb easily produces 800-1000 lumens.
    $endgroup$
    – EasyOhm
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    hi mate, i don't think so. Many adverts there specifying lumens but most are well over 10000 lumens. I edited by question because I am close to buying one. I hate putting links but there is one directly to the one i might buy
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago






  • 10




    $begingroup$
    They lie. It's as simple as that.
    $endgroup$
    – Janka
    8 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    My quick first impression from that ebay listing is: "Lies, lies, lies".
    $endgroup$
    – Jack B
    8 hours ago













3












3








3


1



$begingroup$


I am working as a night delivery driver and when its dark and/or rainy it's almost impossible to read many of the house numbers/names I am looking for.



I've heard of Maglite and in fact my friend has a large Maglite which is 680lm and very powerful but it cost him a fair bit and uses huge batteries.



I look on auction website and see ones boasting 900,000 lumen output! (for about £5 :D) I then google 'worlds most powerful flashlight' and it seems one made by 'Wicked Lasers' is considered one of the most powerful at 4,100 lumens. (https://www.wickedlasers.com/torch)



So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens. And how can i trust the output specs on any advert? (is there any other spec I should be checking)?



Really need it soon, and I need to be able to see stuff that is about 20-30 metres away in heavy rain at night.



Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks



(Ps. I could put links showing the adverts boasting 900,000lm but didnt want to put their links anywhere in case they are a scam)



Additional Edit:-
Well I have continued looking and the specs vary massively. This one I am thinking of buying boasts 20,000 lumens and 500m range. But it only takes 1x AAA battery ??!?!? - Surely this cannot be 20x more powerful than a top Maglite? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tactical-20000LM-L2-Zoomable-LED-Flashlight-Rechargeable-battery-Torch-with-BOX/322609536378?epid=16031184130&hash=item4b1d06dd7a:g:SwQAAOSwmcNdIJWc)



Conclusion:
For what it's worth I decided not to buy a 'No-name' brand. And after finding this one at Toolstation: https://www.toolstation.com/ledlenser-tt-police-tactical-torch/p41307
I realised their pricing is actually very competitive. It is a few quid cheaper in Toolstation than the same torch is on Amazon or ebay.
I can just go into the shop and buy it today :D



I am happy now, thanks again all you guys. PS. You have inspired me to begin learning electronics as a new hobby too










share|improve this question









New contributor



Big T Larrity is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




I am working as a night delivery driver and when its dark and/or rainy it's almost impossible to read many of the house numbers/names I am looking for.



I've heard of Maglite and in fact my friend has a large Maglite which is 680lm and very powerful but it cost him a fair bit and uses huge batteries.



I look on auction website and see ones boasting 900,000 lumen output! (for about £5 :D) I then google 'worlds most powerful flashlight' and it seems one made by 'Wicked Lasers' is considered one of the most powerful at 4,100 lumens. (https://www.wickedlasers.com/torch)



So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens. And how can i trust the output specs on any advert? (is there any other spec I should be checking)?



Really need it soon, and I need to be able to see stuff that is about 20-30 metres away in heavy rain at night.



Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks



(Ps. I could put links showing the adverts boasting 900,000lm but didnt want to put their links anywhere in case they are a scam)



Additional Edit:-
Well I have continued looking and the specs vary massively. This one I am thinking of buying boasts 20,000 lumens and 500m range. But it only takes 1x AAA battery ??!?!? - Surely this cannot be 20x more powerful than a top Maglite? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tactical-20000LM-L2-Zoomable-LED-Flashlight-Rechargeable-battery-Torch-with-BOX/322609536378?epid=16031184130&hash=item4b1d06dd7a:g:SwQAAOSwmcNdIJWc)



Conclusion:
For what it's worth I decided not to buy a 'No-name' brand. And after finding this one at Toolstation: https://www.toolstation.com/ledlenser-tt-police-tactical-torch/p41307
I realised their pricing is actually very competitive. It is a few quid cheaper in Toolstation than the same torch is on Amazon or ebay.
I can just go into the shop and buy it today :D



I am happy now, thanks again all you guys. PS. You have inspired me to begin learning electronics as a new hobby too







light






share|improve this question









New contributor



Big T Larrity is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









New contributor



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share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 7 hours ago







Big T Larrity













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asked 8 hours ago









Big T LarrityBig T Larrity

1185 bronze badges




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Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    By any chance is it actually 900,000 candlepower rather than lumens?
    $endgroup$
    – 1N4007
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Are you taking into account lumen vs lux vs candela? A standard 60W lighbulb easily produces 800-1000 lumens.
    $endgroup$
    – EasyOhm
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    hi mate, i don't think so. Many adverts there specifying lumens but most are well over 10000 lumens. I edited by question because I am close to buying one. I hate putting links but there is one directly to the one i might buy
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago






  • 10




    $begingroup$
    They lie. It's as simple as that.
    $endgroup$
    – Janka
    8 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    My quick first impression from that ebay listing is: "Lies, lies, lies".
    $endgroup$
    – Jack B
    8 hours ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    By any chance is it actually 900,000 candlepower rather than lumens?
    $endgroup$
    – 1N4007
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Are you taking into account lumen vs lux vs candela? A standard 60W lighbulb easily produces 800-1000 lumens.
    $endgroup$
    – EasyOhm
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    hi mate, i don't think so. Many adverts there specifying lumens but most are well over 10000 lumens. I edited by question because I am close to buying one. I hate putting links but there is one directly to the one i might buy
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago






  • 10




    $begingroup$
    They lie. It's as simple as that.
    $endgroup$
    – Janka
    8 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    My quick first impression from that ebay listing is: "Lies, lies, lies".
    $endgroup$
    – Jack B
    8 hours ago







1




1




$begingroup$
By any chance is it actually 900,000 candlepower rather than lumens?
$endgroup$
– 1N4007
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
By any chance is it actually 900,000 candlepower rather than lumens?
$endgroup$
– 1N4007
8 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Are you taking into account lumen vs lux vs candela? A standard 60W lighbulb easily produces 800-1000 lumens.
$endgroup$
– EasyOhm
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
Are you taking into account lumen vs lux vs candela? A standard 60W lighbulb easily produces 800-1000 lumens.
$endgroup$
– EasyOhm
8 hours ago













$begingroup$
hi mate, i don't think so. Many adverts there specifying lumens but most are well over 10000 lumens. I edited by question because I am close to buying one. I hate putting links but there is one directly to the one i might buy
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
hi mate, i don't think so. Many adverts there specifying lumens but most are well over 10000 lumens. I edited by question because I am close to buying one. I hate putting links but there is one directly to the one i might buy
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago




10




10




$begingroup$
They lie. It's as simple as that.
$endgroup$
– Janka
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
They lie. It's as simple as that.
$endgroup$
– Janka
8 hours ago





2




2




$begingroup$
My quick first impression from that ebay listing is: "Lies, lies, lies".
$endgroup$
– Jack B
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
My quick first impression from that ebay listing is: "Lies, lies, lies".
$endgroup$
– Jack B
8 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















12














$begingroup$

Well in your eBay-Link they are providing enough material to debunk themselves. They say they use a Cree XM L2 LED. So let's just look up what that thing can output.



Datasheet XM L2 LED and we see: even if it is driven with 2000 mA - which is quite the stress on the battery - it outputs 600 lm.



And they kindly provided a picture showing that they only use one LED and not multiple.



So they are lying or they measures the first production batch in unison and forgot to say they used 400 of these things.



Generally, you can expect around 100 lm / W and a handheld device is probably using 10 W maximum (okay might be 20 W or so with a good battery), so anything beyond 2000 lm is just unrealistic.



If they tell you the 4000 mAh battery will last 6 hours, you can calculate the wattage:



4000 mAh / 1000mAh/Ah * 3.7 V / 6 h = 2.5 W.



So 250 lm would be a realistic guess for the brightness. And yes, the 4000 mAh are faked as well - currently 18650 LiIon are around 3200 mAh maximum.




Okay, so how does the "brightest torch" from wicked lasers hold up with these estimates?



They claim 4100 lm using a 100 W OSRAM halogen bulb. The datasheet of that bulb tells us it emits 2800 lm. The 4100 lm is still a realistic number though, the bulb will emit light in almost all directions and with a reflector (which are 90%+ efficient) you can send more light in the right direction, which increases the lumens in that direction. With LEDs this effect is not as pronounced as they already have directed light (120° cones are typical).



What about the power of this thing? They claim 100 W which sounds ridiculous. But they use 4 18650 batteries in series and give a low estimate of 20 minutes lifetime. Sadly the capacity is not given, but this is a really high current application, so the capacity will be a bit smaller - I guess 2500 mAh for a high quality cell.



4 * 2.5 Ah * 3,7 V / 20min = 111 W



So the math actually checks out and I think that it does what they say.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    wow thanks man. Makes a lot of sense that! I really need to learn about this stuff more as I do find it very interesting and wish I could deduce this myself rather than asking help from you kind folk.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    One last fun fact. The torch in my link , that I am thinking of buying... The brand name is SHIXE haha. I think the 'manufacturer' is having a laugh with me and means to change the 'X' to a 'T' :D fun times... sad thing is I still might buy it hahaha
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity well the faked specs aside, they usually come with bad engineering and you might end up with a burning torch (which will briefly output more lumens).
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well I am a misor. But I have seen a 'Ledlenser Police' torch in Toolstation fror £30. Their lumen claims are more believable. ranging from 100lm to this police one being 280lm. So I can probably safely expect it to be about half as powerful as my friends big beast Maglite.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity I just checked the wicked lasers thing and I think it's true what they claim. But I also think that you don't need 4100 lm and a inefficient halogen bulb...
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    6 hours ago


















3














$begingroup$

TL/DR: It's a scam.



Long answer:



Current LEDs that work well in flashlights have luminous efficacies in the 100-200 lumen/Watt (roughly, not factoring in driver losses etc).



Thus a 900 000 lm flashlight would require 4500-9000W of power... thus a huge battery and about the same cooling fan as a hairdryer.



Also LEDs for flashlights are usually rated between 1 and 10W and a common LED power for a flashlight is 3W. So if you look at the flashlight and only see ONE LED in it, and it is rated for more than 1000-1500 lm, expect trouble!



Then you can check for battery lifetime. An AA 1.2V 2500mAh alkaline can deliver about 3 Wh (Watt Hours) of power which means 3W for 1h or 1W for 3h, you get the idea. So a flashlight with 300 lumen (about 2-3W) with a battery life of 2 hours on 2 AA batteries sounds good. A bit optimistic considering AAs lose capacity at high current but... not in scam territory. If it is advertised for 1000 lumen and 10 hours battery life on 2 AAs, then... you know something's off!



Lumens describe the total amount of light out of the flashlight. Candlepower (candela) is a misleading number as it describes lumen/steradian, ie light flux in the beam. The same LED, same lumen, will have much less candela with a flood optic than with a tight beam optic, because the tight optic concentrates the light more. Using candelas is a good way to get impressive numbers which look good!



Also cheap flashlights tend to have gotchas, like no spring contacts for the battery, so when you shake it a bit it will turn off or switch to blinking mode.



In other words, go to a flashlight geek review site and pick one by a good manufacturer.




So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens.




How is ebay supposed to check?



If you want a good light, first decide on the batteries you want. 18650 Lithium are better, especially in the cold, but require a specific charger. NiMh AAs are more convenient, but lower capacity.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the help here mate. I had badly worded by question with the 'Why are they allowed by ebay to state xyz lumens....' of course I didn't expect ebay to check. But I thought maybe if they lie like this there would be more 'calling-out' or 'shaming' of such practices by experts such as you guys
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Ideally I would like a torch with rechargable AA. And it would be perfect if I can somehow charge it via USB (even if extremely slowly charged). But you all have given me much food for thought and more info to fight against the tidal wave of BS that is eBay :D
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yeah, I wouldn't buy a flashlight on ebay... especially a no-name Chinese product... there are TONS of scams.
    $endgroup$
    – peufeu
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sadly i think you are right, but much more expensive for me to buy locally and the shops do love to overcharge for everything. I'd love to find a reasonable one on ebay but probably will give up and by from Toolstation or something :|
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago













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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









12














$begingroup$

Well in your eBay-Link they are providing enough material to debunk themselves. They say they use a Cree XM L2 LED. So let's just look up what that thing can output.



Datasheet XM L2 LED and we see: even if it is driven with 2000 mA - which is quite the stress on the battery - it outputs 600 lm.



And they kindly provided a picture showing that they only use one LED and not multiple.



So they are lying or they measures the first production batch in unison and forgot to say they used 400 of these things.



Generally, you can expect around 100 lm / W and a handheld device is probably using 10 W maximum (okay might be 20 W or so with a good battery), so anything beyond 2000 lm is just unrealistic.



If they tell you the 4000 mAh battery will last 6 hours, you can calculate the wattage:



4000 mAh / 1000mAh/Ah * 3.7 V / 6 h = 2.5 W.



So 250 lm would be a realistic guess for the brightness. And yes, the 4000 mAh are faked as well - currently 18650 LiIon are around 3200 mAh maximum.




Okay, so how does the "brightest torch" from wicked lasers hold up with these estimates?



They claim 4100 lm using a 100 W OSRAM halogen bulb. The datasheet of that bulb tells us it emits 2800 lm. The 4100 lm is still a realistic number though, the bulb will emit light in almost all directions and with a reflector (which are 90%+ efficient) you can send more light in the right direction, which increases the lumens in that direction. With LEDs this effect is not as pronounced as they already have directed light (120° cones are typical).



What about the power of this thing? They claim 100 W which sounds ridiculous. But they use 4 18650 batteries in series and give a low estimate of 20 minutes lifetime. Sadly the capacity is not given, but this is a really high current application, so the capacity will be a bit smaller - I guess 2500 mAh for a high quality cell.



4 * 2.5 Ah * 3,7 V / 20min = 111 W



So the math actually checks out and I think that it does what they say.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    wow thanks man. Makes a lot of sense that! I really need to learn about this stuff more as I do find it very interesting and wish I could deduce this myself rather than asking help from you kind folk.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    One last fun fact. The torch in my link , that I am thinking of buying... The brand name is SHIXE haha. I think the 'manufacturer' is having a laugh with me and means to change the 'X' to a 'T' :D fun times... sad thing is I still might buy it hahaha
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity well the faked specs aside, they usually come with bad engineering and you might end up with a burning torch (which will briefly output more lumens).
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well I am a misor. But I have seen a 'Ledlenser Police' torch in Toolstation fror £30. Their lumen claims are more believable. ranging from 100lm to this police one being 280lm. So I can probably safely expect it to be about half as powerful as my friends big beast Maglite.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity I just checked the wicked lasers thing and I think it's true what they claim. But I also think that you don't need 4100 lm and a inefficient halogen bulb...
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    6 hours ago















12














$begingroup$

Well in your eBay-Link they are providing enough material to debunk themselves. They say they use a Cree XM L2 LED. So let's just look up what that thing can output.



Datasheet XM L2 LED and we see: even if it is driven with 2000 mA - which is quite the stress on the battery - it outputs 600 lm.



And they kindly provided a picture showing that they only use one LED and not multiple.



So they are lying or they measures the first production batch in unison and forgot to say they used 400 of these things.



Generally, you can expect around 100 lm / W and a handheld device is probably using 10 W maximum (okay might be 20 W or so with a good battery), so anything beyond 2000 lm is just unrealistic.



If they tell you the 4000 mAh battery will last 6 hours, you can calculate the wattage:



4000 mAh / 1000mAh/Ah * 3.7 V / 6 h = 2.5 W.



So 250 lm would be a realistic guess for the brightness. And yes, the 4000 mAh are faked as well - currently 18650 LiIon are around 3200 mAh maximum.




Okay, so how does the "brightest torch" from wicked lasers hold up with these estimates?



They claim 4100 lm using a 100 W OSRAM halogen bulb. The datasheet of that bulb tells us it emits 2800 lm. The 4100 lm is still a realistic number though, the bulb will emit light in almost all directions and with a reflector (which are 90%+ efficient) you can send more light in the right direction, which increases the lumens in that direction. With LEDs this effect is not as pronounced as they already have directed light (120° cones are typical).



What about the power of this thing? They claim 100 W which sounds ridiculous. But they use 4 18650 batteries in series and give a low estimate of 20 minutes lifetime. Sadly the capacity is not given, but this is a really high current application, so the capacity will be a bit smaller - I guess 2500 mAh for a high quality cell.



4 * 2.5 Ah * 3,7 V / 20min = 111 W



So the math actually checks out and I think that it does what they say.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    wow thanks man. Makes a lot of sense that! I really need to learn about this stuff more as I do find it very interesting and wish I could deduce this myself rather than asking help from you kind folk.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    One last fun fact. The torch in my link , that I am thinking of buying... The brand name is SHIXE haha. I think the 'manufacturer' is having a laugh with me and means to change the 'X' to a 'T' :D fun times... sad thing is I still might buy it hahaha
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity well the faked specs aside, they usually come with bad engineering and you might end up with a burning torch (which will briefly output more lumens).
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well I am a misor. But I have seen a 'Ledlenser Police' torch in Toolstation fror £30. Their lumen claims are more believable. ranging from 100lm to this police one being 280lm. So I can probably safely expect it to be about half as powerful as my friends big beast Maglite.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity I just checked the wicked lasers thing and I think it's true what they claim. But I also think that you don't need 4100 lm and a inefficient halogen bulb...
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    6 hours ago













12














12










12







$begingroup$

Well in your eBay-Link they are providing enough material to debunk themselves. They say they use a Cree XM L2 LED. So let's just look up what that thing can output.



Datasheet XM L2 LED and we see: even if it is driven with 2000 mA - which is quite the stress on the battery - it outputs 600 lm.



And they kindly provided a picture showing that they only use one LED and not multiple.



So they are lying or they measures the first production batch in unison and forgot to say they used 400 of these things.



Generally, you can expect around 100 lm / W and a handheld device is probably using 10 W maximum (okay might be 20 W or so with a good battery), so anything beyond 2000 lm is just unrealistic.



If they tell you the 4000 mAh battery will last 6 hours, you can calculate the wattage:



4000 mAh / 1000mAh/Ah * 3.7 V / 6 h = 2.5 W.



So 250 lm would be a realistic guess for the brightness. And yes, the 4000 mAh are faked as well - currently 18650 LiIon are around 3200 mAh maximum.




Okay, so how does the "brightest torch" from wicked lasers hold up with these estimates?



They claim 4100 lm using a 100 W OSRAM halogen bulb. The datasheet of that bulb tells us it emits 2800 lm. The 4100 lm is still a realistic number though, the bulb will emit light in almost all directions and with a reflector (which are 90%+ efficient) you can send more light in the right direction, which increases the lumens in that direction. With LEDs this effect is not as pronounced as they already have directed light (120° cones are typical).



What about the power of this thing? They claim 100 W which sounds ridiculous. But they use 4 18650 batteries in series and give a low estimate of 20 minutes lifetime. Sadly the capacity is not given, but this is a really high current application, so the capacity will be a bit smaller - I guess 2500 mAh for a high quality cell.



4 * 2.5 Ah * 3,7 V / 20min = 111 W



So the math actually checks out and I think that it does what they say.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Well in your eBay-Link they are providing enough material to debunk themselves. They say they use a Cree XM L2 LED. So let's just look up what that thing can output.



Datasheet XM L2 LED and we see: even if it is driven with 2000 mA - which is quite the stress on the battery - it outputs 600 lm.



And they kindly provided a picture showing that they only use one LED and not multiple.



So they are lying or they measures the first production batch in unison and forgot to say they used 400 of these things.



Generally, you can expect around 100 lm / W and a handheld device is probably using 10 W maximum (okay might be 20 W or so with a good battery), so anything beyond 2000 lm is just unrealistic.



If they tell you the 4000 mAh battery will last 6 hours, you can calculate the wattage:



4000 mAh / 1000mAh/Ah * 3.7 V / 6 h = 2.5 W.



So 250 lm would be a realistic guess for the brightness. And yes, the 4000 mAh are faked as well - currently 18650 LiIon are around 3200 mAh maximum.




Okay, so how does the "brightest torch" from wicked lasers hold up with these estimates?



They claim 4100 lm using a 100 W OSRAM halogen bulb. The datasheet of that bulb tells us it emits 2800 lm. The 4100 lm is still a realistic number though, the bulb will emit light in almost all directions and with a reflector (which are 90%+ efficient) you can send more light in the right direction, which increases the lumens in that direction. With LEDs this effect is not as pronounced as they already have directed light (120° cones are typical).



What about the power of this thing? They claim 100 W which sounds ridiculous. But they use 4 18650 batteries in series and give a low estimate of 20 minutes lifetime. Sadly the capacity is not given, but this is a really high current application, so the capacity will be a bit smaller - I guess 2500 mAh for a high quality cell.



4 * 2.5 Ah * 3,7 V / 20min = 111 W



So the math actually checks out and I think that it does what they say.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 6 hours ago

























answered 8 hours ago









ArsenalArsenal

13.5k1 gold badge17 silver badges46 bronze badges




13.5k1 gold badge17 silver badges46 bronze badges














  • $begingroup$
    wow thanks man. Makes a lot of sense that! I really need to learn about this stuff more as I do find it very interesting and wish I could deduce this myself rather than asking help from you kind folk.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    One last fun fact. The torch in my link , that I am thinking of buying... The brand name is SHIXE haha. I think the 'manufacturer' is having a laugh with me and means to change the 'X' to a 'T' :D fun times... sad thing is I still might buy it hahaha
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity well the faked specs aside, they usually come with bad engineering and you might end up with a burning torch (which will briefly output more lumens).
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well I am a misor. But I have seen a 'Ledlenser Police' torch in Toolstation fror £30. Their lumen claims are more believable. ranging from 100lm to this police one being 280lm. So I can probably safely expect it to be about half as powerful as my friends big beast Maglite.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity I just checked the wicked lasers thing and I think it's true what they claim. But I also think that you don't need 4100 lm and a inefficient halogen bulb...
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    6 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    wow thanks man. Makes a lot of sense that! I really need to learn about this stuff more as I do find it very interesting and wish I could deduce this myself rather than asking help from you kind folk.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    One last fun fact. The torch in my link , that I am thinking of buying... The brand name is SHIXE haha. I think the 'manufacturer' is having a laugh with me and means to change the 'X' to a 'T' :D fun times... sad thing is I still might buy it hahaha
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity well the faked specs aside, they usually come with bad engineering and you might end up with a burning torch (which will briefly output more lumens).
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well I am a misor. But I have seen a 'Ledlenser Police' torch in Toolstation fror £30. Their lumen claims are more believable. ranging from 100lm to this police one being 280lm. So I can probably safely expect it to be about half as powerful as my friends big beast Maglite.
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @BigTLarrity I just checked the wicked lasers thing and I think it's true what they claim. But I also think that you don't need 4100 lm and a inefficient halogen bulb...
    $endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    6 hours ago















$begingroup$
wow thanks man. Makes a lot of sense that! I really need to learn about this stuff more as I do find it very interesting and wish I could deduce this myself rather than asking help from you kind folk.
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
wow thanks man. Makes a lot of sense that! I really need to learn about this stuff more as I do find it very interesting and wish I could deduce this myself rather than asking help from you kind folk.
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
One last fun fact. The torch in my link , that I am thinking of buying... The brand name is SHIXE haha. I think the 'manufacturer' is having a laugh with me and means to change the 'X' to a 'T' :D fun times... sad thing is I still might buy it hahaha
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
One last fun fact. The torch in my link , that I am thinking of buying... The brand name is SHIXE haha. I think the 'manufacturer' is having a laugh with me and means to change the 'X' to a 'T' :D fun times... sad thing is I still might buy it hahaha
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
@BigTLarrity well the faked specs aside, they usually come with bad engineering and you might end up with a burning torch (which will briefly output more lumens).
$endgroup$
– Arsenal
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
@BigTLarrity well the faked specs aside, they usually come with bad engineering and you might end up with a burning torch (which will briefly output more lumens).
$endgroup$
– Arsenal
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
Well I am a misor. But I have seen a 'Ledlenser Police' torch in Toolstation fror £30. Their lumen claims are more believable. ranging from 100lm to this police one being 280lm. So I can probably safely expect it to be about half as powerful as my friends big beast Maglite.
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
7 hours ago





$begingroup$
Well I am a misor. But I have seen a 'Ledlenser Police' torch in Toolstation fror £30. Their lumen claims are more believable. ranging from 100lm to this police one being 280lm. So I can probably safely expect it to be about half as powerful as my friends big beast Maglite.
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
7 hours ago













$begingroup$
@BigTLarrity I just checked the wicked lasers thing and I think it's true what they claim. But I also think that you don't need 4100 lm and a inefficient halogen bulb...
$endgroup$
– Arsenal
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
@BigTLarrity I just checked the wicked lasers thing and I think it's true what they claim. But I also think that you don't need 4100 lm and a inefficient halogen bulb...
$endgroup$
– Arsenal
6 hours ago













3














$begingroup$

TL/DR: It's a scam.



Long answer:



Current LEDs that work well in flashlights have luminous efficacies in the 100-200 lumen/Watt (roughly, not factoring in driver losses etc).



Thus a 900 000 lm flashlight would require 4500-9000W of power... thus a huge battery and about the same cooling fan as a hairdryer.



Also LEDs for flashlights are usually rated between 1 and 10W and a common LED power for a flashlight is 3W. So if you look at the flashlight and only see ONE LED in it, and it is rated for more than 1000-1500 lm, expect trouble!



Then you can check for battery lifetime. An AA 1.2V 2500mAh alkaline can deliver about 3 Wh (Watt Hours) of power which means 3W for 1h or 1W for 3h, you get the idea. So a flashlight with 300 lumen (about 2-3W) with a battery life of 2 hours on 2 AA batteries sounds good. A bit optimistic considering AAs lose capacity at high current but... not in scam territory. If it is advertised for 1000 lumen and 10 hours battery life on 2 AAs, then... you know something's off!



Lumens describe the total amount of light out of the flashlight. Candlepower (candela) is a misleading number as it describes lumen/steradian, ie light flux in the beam. The same LED, same lumen, will have much less candela with a flood optic than with a tight beam optic, because the tight optic concentrates the light more. Using candelas is a good way to get impressive numbers which look good!



Also cheap flashlights tend to have gotchas, like no spring contacts for the battery, so when you shake it a bit it will turn off or switch to blinking mode.



In other words, go to a flashlight geek review site and pick one by a good manufacturer.




So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens.




How is ebay supposed to check?



If you want a good light, first decide on the batteries you want. 18650 Lithium are better, especially in the cold, but require a specific charger. NiMh AAs are more convenient, but lower capacity.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the help here mate. I had badly worded by question with the 'Why are they allowed by ebay to state xyz lumens....' of course I didn't expect ebay to check. But I thought maybe if they lie like this there would be more 'calling-out' or 'shaming' of such practices by experts such as you guys
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Ideally I would like a torch with rechargable AA. And it would be perfect if I can somehow charge it via USB (even if extremely slowly charged). But you all have given me much food for thought and more info to fight against the tidal wave of BS that is eBay :D
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yeah, I wouldn't buy a flashlight on ebay... especially a no-name Chinese product... there are TONS of scams.
    $endgroup$
    – peufeu
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sadly i think you are right, but much more expensive for me to buy locally and the shops do love to overcharge for everything. I'd love to find a reasonable one on ebay but probably will give up and by from Toolstation or something :|
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago















3














$begingroup$

TL/DR: It's a scam.



Long answer:



Current LEDs that work well in flashlights have luminous efficacies in the 100-200 lumen/Watt (roughly, not factoring in driver losses etc).



Thus a 900 000 lm flashlight would require 4500-9000W of power... thus a huge battery and about the same cooling fan as a hairdryer.



Also LEDs for flashlights are usually rated between 1 and 10W and a common LED power for a flashlight is 3W. So if you look at the flashlight and only see ONE LED in it, and it is rated for more than 1000-1500 lm, expect trouble!



Then you can check for battery lifetime. An AA 1.2V 2500mAh alkaline can deliver about 3 Wh (Watt Hours) of power which means 3W for 1h or 1W for 3h, you get the idea. So a flashlight with 300 lumen (about 2-3W) with a battery life of 2 hours on 2 AA batteries sounds good. A bit optimistic considering AAs lose capacity at high current but... not in scam territory. If it is advertised for 1000 lumen and 10 hours battery life on 2 AAs, then... you know something's off!



Lumens describe the total amount of light out of the flashlight. Candlepower (candela) is a misleading number as it describes lumen/steradian, ie light flux in the beam. The same LED, same lumen, will have much less candela with a flood optic than with a tight beam optic, because the tight optic concentrates the light more. Using candelas is a good way to get impressive numbers which look good!



Also cheap flashlights tend to have gotchas, like no spring contacts for the battery, so when you shake it a bit it will turn off or switch to blinking mode.



In other words, go to a flashlight geek review site and pick one by a good manufacturer.




So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens.




How is ebay supposed to check?



If you want a good light, first decide on the batteries you want. 18650 Lithium are better, especially in the cold, but require a specific charger. NiMh AAs are more convenient, but lower capacity.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the help here mate. I had badly worded by question with the 'Why are they allowed by ebay to state xyz lumens....' of course I didn't expect ebay to check. But I thought maybe if they lie like this there would be more 'calling-out' or 'shaming' of such practices by experts such as you guys
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Ideally I would like a torch with rechargable AA. And it would be perfect if I can somehow charge it via USB (even if extremely slowly charged). But you all have given me much food for thought and more info to fight against the tidal wave of BS that is eBay :D
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yeah, I wouldn't buy a flashlight on ebay... especially a no-name Chinese product... there are TONS of scams.
    $endgroup$
    – peufeu
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sadly i think you are right, but much more expensive for me to buy locally and the shops do love to overcharge for everything. I'd love to find a reasonable one on ebay but probably will give up and by from Toolstation or something :|
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago













3














3










3







$begingroup$

TL/DR: It's a scam.



Long answer:



Current LEDs that work well in flashlights have luminous efficacies in the 100-200 lumen/Watt (roughly, not factoring in driver losses etc).



Thus a 900 000 lm flashlight would require 4500-9000W of power... thus a huge battery and about the same cooling fan as a hairdryer.



Also LEDs for flashlights are usually rated between 1 and 10W and a common LED power for a flashlight is 3W. So if you look at the flashlight and only see ONE LED in it, and it is rated for more than 1000-1500 lm, expect trouble!



Then you can check for battery lifetime. An AA 1.2V 2500mAh alkaline can deliver about 3 Wh (Watt Hours) of power which means 3W for 1h or 1W for 3h, you get the idea. So a flashlight with 300 lumen (about 2-3W) with a battery life of 2 hours on 2 AA batteries sounds good. A bit optimistic considering AAs lose capacity at high current but... not in scam territory. If it is advertised for 1000 lumen and 10 hours battery life on 2 AAs, then... you know something's off!



Lumens describe the total amount of light out of the flashlight. Candlepower (candela) is a misleading number as it describes lumen/steradian, ie light flux in the beam. The same LED, same lumen, will have much less candela with a flood optic than with a tight beam optic, because the tight optic concentrates the light more. Using candelas is a good way to get impressive numbers which look good!



Also cheap flashlights tend to have gotchas, like no spring contacts for the battery, so when you shake it a bit it will turn off or switch to blinking mode.



In other words, go to a flashlight geek review site and pick one by a good manufacturer.




So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens.




How is ebay supposed to check?



If you want a good light, first decide on the batteries you want. 18650 Lithium are better, especially in the cold, but require a specific charger. NiMh AAs are more convenient, but lower capacity.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



TL/DR: It's a scam.



Long answer:



Current LEDs that work well in flashlights have luminous efficacies in the 100-200 lumen/Watt (roughly, not factoring in driver losses etc).



Thus a 900 000 lm flashlight would require 4500-9000W of power... thus a huge battery and about the same cooling fan as a hairdryer.



Also LEDs for flashlights are usually rated between 1 and 10W and a common LED power for a flashlight is 3W. So if you look at the flashlight and only see ONE LED in it, and it is rated for more than 1000-1500 lm, expect trouble!



Then you can check for battery lifetime. An AA 1.2V 2500mAh alkaline can deliver about 3 Wh (Watt Hours) of power which means 3W for 1h or 1W for 3h, you get the idea. So a flashlight with 300 lumen (about 2-3W) with a battery life of 2 hours on 2 AA batteries sounds good. A bit optimistic considering AAs lose capacity at high current but... not in scam territory. If it is advertised for 1000 lumen and 10 hours battery life on 2 AAs, then... you know something's off!



Lumens describe the total amount of light out of the flashlight. Candlepower (candela) is a misleading number as it describes lumen/steradian, ie light flux in the beam. The same LED, same lumen, will have much less candela with a flood optic than with a tight beam optic, because the tight optic concentrates the light more. Using candelas is a good way to get impressive numbers which look good!



Also cheap flashlights tend to have gotchas, like no spring contacts for the battery, so when you shake it a bit it will turn off or switch to blinking mode.



In other words, go to a flashlight geek review site and pick one by a good manufacturer.




So why on auction site are they allowed to state 900,000 lumens.




How is ebay supposed to check?



If you want a good light, first decide on the batteries you want. 18650 Lithium are better, especially in the cold, but require a specific charger. NiMh AAs are more convenient, but lower capacity.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 7 hours ago









Ariser

2,64310 silver badges31 bronze badges




2,64310 silver badges31 bronze badges










answered 8 hours ago









peufeupeufeu

27.3k2 gold badges40 silver badges80 bronze badges




27.3k2 gold badges40 silver badges80 bronze badges














  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the help here mate. I had badly worded by question with the 'Why are they allowed by ebay to state xyz lumens....' of course I didn't expect ebay to check. But I thought maybe if they lie like this there would be more 'calling-out' or 'shaming' of such practices by experts such as you guys
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Ideally I would like a torch with rechargable AA. And it would be perfect if I can somehow charge it via USB (even if extremely slowly charged). But you all have given me much food for thought and more info to fight against the tidal wave of BS that is eBay :D
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yeah, I wouldn't buy a flashlight on ebay... especially a no-name Chinese product... there are TONS of scams.
    $endgroup$
    – peufeu
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sadly i think you are right, but much more expensive for me to buy locally and the shops do love to overcharge for everything. I'd love to find a reasonable one on ebay but probably will give up and by from Toolstation or something :|
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the help here mate. I had badly worded by question with the 'Why are they allowed by ebay to state xyz lumens....' of course I didn't expect ebay to check. But I thought maybe if they lie like this there would be more 'calling-out' or 'shaming' of such practices by experts such as you guys
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Ideally I would like a torch with rechargable AA. And it would be perfect if I can somehow charge it via USB (even if extremely slowly charged). But you all have given me much food for thought and more info to fight against the tidal wave of BS that is eBay :D
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yeah, I wouldn't buy a flashlight on ebay... especially a no-name Chinese product... there are TONS of scams.
    $endgroup$
    – peufeu
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sadly i think you are right, but much more expensive for me to buy locally and the shops do love to overcharge for everything. I'd love to find a reasonable one on ebay but probably will give up and by from Toolstation or something :|
    $endgroup$
    – Big T Larrity
    7 hours ago















$begingroup$
Thank you for the help here mate. I had badly worded by question with the 'Why are they allowed by ebay to state xyz lumens....' of course I didn't expect ebay to check. But I thought maybe if they lie like this there would be more 'calling-out' or 'shaming' of such practices by experts such as you guys
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Thank you for the help here mate. I had badly worded by question with the 'Why are they allowed by ebay to state xyz lumens....' of course I didn't expect ebay to check. But I thought maybe if they lie like this there would be more 'calling-out' or 'shaming' of such practices by experts such as you guys
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
Ideally I would like a torch with rechargable AA. And it would be perfect if I can somehow charge it via USB (even if extremely slowly charged). But you all have given me much food for thought and more info to fight against the tidal wave of BS that is eBay :D
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Ideally I would like a torch with rechargable AA. And it would be perfect if I can somehow charge it via USB (even if extremely slowly charged). But you all have given me much food for thought and more info to fight against the tidal wave of BS that is eBay :D
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
Yeah, I wouldn't buy a flashlight on ebay... especially a no-name Chinese product... there are TONS of scams.
$endgroup$
– peufeu
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Yeah, I wouldn't buy a flashlight on ebay... especially a no-name Chinese product... there are TONS of scams.
$endgroup$
– peufeu
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
sadly i think you are right, but much more expensive for me to buy locally and the shops do love to overcharge for everything. I'd love to find a reasonable one on ebay but probably will give up and by from Toolstation or something :|
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
sadly i think you are right, but much more expensive for me to buy locally and the shops do love to overcharge for everything. I'd love to find a reasonable one on ebay but probably will give up and by from Toolstation or something :|
$endgroup$
– Big T Larrity
7 hours ago











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