Why did the AvroCar fail to fly above 3 feet?What are the US regulations governing experimental aircraft?Would an aircraft with contra-rotating propellers longer than the plane's wingspan be able to fly?Why did the YF-23 never enter service?First to fly around the world by riding jet streams possible?How can the Perlan II glider climb to 90,000 feet?What is the purpose of the extra wheel on the XB-70 main gear?What is the procedure to turn a certified aircraft into an experimental aircraft?Could the vertical stabilizer be removed on the NASA X-57?May a commercial pilot transport an owner in the latter’s experimental aircraft for compensation?What rotors would be best for atmospheric reentry?
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Why did the AvroCar fail to fly above 3 feet?
What are the US regulations governing experimental aircraft?Would an aircraft with contra-rotating propellers longer than the plane's wingspan be able to fly?Why did the YF-23 never enter service?First to fly around the world by riding jet streams possible?How can the Perlan II glider climb to 90,000 feet?What is the purpose of the extra wheel on the XB-70 main gear?What is the procedure to turn a certified aircraft into an experimental aircraft?Could the vertical stabilizer be removed on the NASA X-57?May a commercial pilot transport an owner in the latter’s experimental aircraft for compensation?What rotors would be best for atmospheric reentry?
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I don’t quite understand why the craft didn’t reach more than 3 feet? Was it a ground effect keeping it at that height and it didn’t have the capability to fly higher?
experimental-aircraft
asked 8 hours ago
L3RCANL3RCAN
133
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L3RCAN is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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add a comment |
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I don’t quite understand why the craft didn’t reach more than 3 feet? Was it a ground effect keeping it at that height and it didn’t have the capability to fly higher?
experimental-aircraft
asked 8 hours ago
L3RCANL3RCAN
133
New contributor
L3RCAN is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don’t quite understand why the craft didn’t reach more than 3 feet? Was it a ground effect keeping it at that height and it didn’t have the capability to fly higher?
experimental-aircraft
asked 8 hours ago
L3RCANL3RCAN
133
New contributor
L3RCAN is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
I don’t quite understand why the craft didn’t reach more than 3 feet? Was it a ground effect keeping it at that height and it didn’t have the capability to fly higher?
experimental-aircraft
experimental-aircraft
asked 8 hours ago
L3RCANL3RCAN
133
New contributor
L3RCAN is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
L3RCANL3RCAN
133
New contributor
L3RCAN is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
L3RCANL3RCAN
133
New contributor
L3RCAN is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
L3RCANL3RCAN
133
asked 8 hours ago
L3RCANL3RCAN
133
133
New contributor
L3RCAN is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
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Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
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From what can be gleaned from the Net, it was instability. The Avorcar had plenty of power but was unstable. The resulting behavior made it uncontrollable when leaving ground effect. In this publication I found an illustration which tries to explain what went on:
Any asymmetry in flow would shift the center of pressure, resulting in a wobbling motion called hubcapping (because it resembled the motion of a hubcap when dropped to the ground).
From the linked document:
On September 29, the first attempt of sustained flight was made with the Avrocar pinned to the ground by cables. After that the vehicle took off, an uncontrollable oscillation occurred with each wheel alternately bouncing on the ground. […] These first captive flight[s] revealed then a new problem, called “hubcapping” which has never been fully resolved. The hubcapping was rapid and unpredictable swings in pitch and roll axes.
answered 7 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
165k13419677
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I once had a teacher who worked on the program as a technician at Avro Canada. If it was designed today with modern synthetic stability they might have something. But even then I expect the overall efficiency would be way less than a regular helicopter from a lift perspective. A lot of it seemed to just be that 50's infatuation with "flying saucers".
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JohnK: Conventional aerodynamics tells us that the center of pressure on a circular wing is at 24% of the mid chord. If you want to change direction without rotating the disc, half the lift must be added by vertical blowing over the rear half to balance the craft. Even with fast, digital flight controls the amount of control power needed makes a flying saucer simply not worth it.
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your point is taken but in the Avrocar's case the body was never intended to function as a circular wing, as there was no means to propel it along so that the body could operate at an angle of attack like an airfoil. The center fan driven by the exhaust of the 3 tangential turbojets buried inside produced almost all of the lifting force, blowing straight down, and the air diverted directed out around the D shaped ring and duct was for supplemental lift and attitude control. To gain speed it had to tilt the body to tilt rigid fan's thrust vector. In effect a kind of bizzaro-world helicopter.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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1 Answer
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oldest
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1 Answer
1
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active
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active
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$begingroup$
From what can be gleaned from the Net, it was instability. The Avorcar had plenty of power but was unstable. The resulting behavior made it uncontrollable when leaving ground effect. In this publication I found an illustration which tries to explain what went on:
Any asymmetry in flow would shift the center of pressure, resulting in a wobbling motion called hubcapping (because it resembled the motion of a hubcap when dropped to the ground).
From the linked document:
On September 29, the first attempt of sustained flight was made with the Avrocar pinned to the ground by cables. After that the vehicle took off, an uncontrollable oscillation occurred with each wheel alternately bouncing on the ground. […] These first captive flight[s] revealed then a new problem, called “hubcapping” which has never been fully resolved. The hubcapping was rapid and unpredictable swings in pitch and roll axes.
answered 7 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
165k13419677
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I once had a teacher who worked on the program as a technician at Avro Canada. If it was designed today with modern synthetic stability they might have something. But even then I expect the overall efficiency would be way less than a regular helicopter from a lift perspective. A lot of it seemed to just be that 50's infatuation with "flying saucers".
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JohnK: Conventional aerodynamics tells us that the center of pressure on a circular wing is at 24% of the mid chord. If you want to change direction without rotating the disc, half the lift must be added by vertical blowing over the rear half to balance the craft. Even with fast, digital flight controls the amount of control power needed makes a flying saucer simply not worth it.
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your point is taken but in the Avrocar's case the body was never intended to function as a circular wing, as there was no means to propel it along so that the body could operate at an angle of attack like an airfoil. The center fan driven by the exhaust of the 3 tangential turbojets buried inside produced almost all of the lifting force, blowing straight down, and the air diverted directed out around the D shaped ring and duct was for supplemental lift and attitude control. To gain speed it had to tilt the body to tilt rigid fan's thrust vector. In effect a kind of bizzaro-world helicopter.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
From what can be gleaned from the Net, it was instability. The Avorcar had plenty of power but was unstable. The resulting behavior made it uncontrollable when leaving ground effect. In this publication I found an illustration which tries to explain what went on:
Any asymmetry in flow would shift the center of pressure, resulting in a wobbling motion called hubcapping (because it resembled the motion of a hubcap when dropped to the ground).
From the linked document:
On September 29, the first attempt of sustained flight was made with the Avrocar pinned to the ground by cables. After that the vehicle took off, an uncontrollable oscillation occurred with each wheel alternately bouncing on the ground. […] These first captive flight[s] revealed then a new problem, called “hubcapping” which has never been fully resolved. The hubcapping was rapid and unpredictable swings in pitch and roll axes.
answered 7 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
165k13419677
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I once had a teacher who worked on the program as a technician at Avro Canada. If it was designed today with modern synthetic stability they might have something. But even then I expect the overall efficiency would be way less than a regular helicopter from a lift perspective. A lot of it seemed to just be that 50's infatuation with "flying saucers".
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JohnK: Conventional aerodynamics tells us that the center of pressure on a circular wing is at 24% of the mid chord. If you want to change direction without rotating the disc, half the lift must be added by vertical blowing over the rear half to balance the craft. Even with fast, digital flight controls the amount of control power needed makes a flying saucer simply not worth it.
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your point is taken but in the Avrocar's case the body was never intended to function as a circular wing, as there was no means to propel it along so that the body could operate at an angle of attack like an airfoil. The center fan driven by the exhaust of the 3 tangential turbojets buried inside produced almost all of the lifting force, blowing straight down, and the air diverted directed out around the D shaped ring and duct was for supplemental lift and attitude control. To gain speed it had to tilt the body to tilt rigid fan's thrust vector. In effect a kind of bizzaro-world helicopter.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
From what can be gleaned from the Net, it was instability. The Avorcar had plenty of power but was unstable. The resulting behavior made it uncontrollable when leaving ground effect. In this publication I found an illustration which tries to explain what went on:
Any asymmetry in flow would shift the center of pressure, resulting in a wobbling motion called hubcapping (because it resembled the motion of a hubcap when dropped to the ground).
From the linked document:
On September 29, the first attempt of sustained flight was made with the Avrocar pinned to the ground by cables. After that the vehicle took off, an uncontrollable oscillation occurred with each wheel alternately bouncing on the ground. […] These first captive flight[s] revealed then a new problem, called “hubcapping” which has never been fully resolved. The hubcapping was rapid and unpredictable swings in pitch and roll axes.
answered 7 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
165k13419677
$endgroup$
From what can be gleaned from the Net, it was instability. The Avorcar had plenty of power but was unstable. The resulting behavior made it uncontrollable when leaving ground effect. In this publication I found an illustration which tries to explain what went on:
Any asymmetry in flow would shift the center of pressure, resulting in a wobbling motion called hubcapping (because it resembled the motion of a hubcap when dropped to the ground).
From the linked document:
On September 29, the first attempt of sustained flight was made with the Avrocar pinned to the ground by cables. After that the vehicle took off, an uncontrollable oscillation occurred with each wheel alternately bouncing on the ground. […] These first captive flight[s] revealed then a new problem, called “hubcapping” which has never been fully resolved. The hubcapping was rapid and unpredictable swings in pitch and roll axes.
answered 7 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
165k13419677
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
165k13419677
answered 7 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
165k13419677
answered 7 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
165k13419677
165k13419677
$begingroup$
I once had a teacher who worked on the program as a technician at Avro Canada. If it was designed today with modern synthetic stability they might have something. But even then I expect the overall efficiency would be way less than a regular helicopter from a lift perspective. A lot of it seemed to just be that 50's infatuation with "flying saucers".
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JohnK: Conventional aerodynamics tells us that the center of pressure on a circular wing is at 24% of the mid chord. If you want to change direction without rotating the disc, half the lift must be added by vertical blowing over the rear half to balance the craft. Even with fast, digital flight controls the amount of control power needed makes a flying saucer simply not worth it.
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your point is taken but in the Avrocar's case the body was never intended to function as a circular wing, as there was no means to propel it along so that the body could operate at an angle of attack like an airfoil. The center fan driven by the exhaust of the 3 tangential turbojets buried inside produced almost all of the lifting force, blowing straight down, and the air diverted directed out around the D shaped ring and duct was for supplemental lift and attitude control. To gain speed it had to tilt the body to tilt rigid fan's thrust vector. In effect a kind of bizzaro-world helicopter.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I once had a teacher who worked on the program as a technician at Avro Canada. If it was designed today with modern synthetic stability they might have something. But even then I expect the overall efficiency would be way less than a regular helicopter from a lift perspective. A lot of it seemed to just be that 50's infatuation with "flying saucers".
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JohnK: Conventional aerodynamics tells us that the center of pressure on a circular wing is at 24% of the mid chord. If you want to change direction without rotating the disc, half the lift must be added by vertical blowing over the rear half to balance the craft. Even with fast, digital flight controls the amount of control power needed makes a flying saucer simply not worth it.
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your point is taken but in the Avrocar's case the body was never intended to function as a circular wing, as there was no means to propel it along so that the body could operate at an angle of attack like an airfoil. The center fan driven by the exhaust of the 3 tangential turbojets buried inside produced almost all of the lifting force, blowing straight down, and the air diverted directed out around the D shaped ring and duct was for supplemental lift and attitude control. To gain speed it had to tilt the body to tilt rigid fan's thrust vector. In effect a kind of bizzaro-world helicopter.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I once had a teacher who worked on the program as a technician at Avro Canada. If it was designed today with modern synthetic stability they might have something. But even then I expect the overall efficiency would be way less than a regular helicopter from a lift perspective. A lot of it seemed to just be that 50's infatuation with "flying saucers".
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I once had a teacher who worked on the program as a technician at Avro Canada. If it was designed today with modern synthetic stability they might have something. But even then I expect the overall efficiency would be way less than a regular helicopter from a lift perspective. A lot of it seemed to just be that 50's infatuation with "flying saucers".
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JohnK: Conventional aerodynamics tells us that the center of pressure on a circular wing is at 24% of the mid chord. If you want to change direction without rotating the disc, half the lift must be added by vertical blowing over the rear half to balance the craft. Even with fast, digital flight controls the amount of control power needed makes a flying saucer simply not worth it.
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JohnK: Conventional aerodynamics tells us that the center of pressure on a circular wing is at 24% of the mid chord. If you want to change direction without rotating the disc, half the lift must be added by vertical blowing over the rear half to balance the craft. Even with fast, digital flight controls the amount of control power needed makes a flying saucer simply not worth it.
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your point is taken but in the Avrocar's case the body was never intended to function as a circular wing, as there was no means to propel it along so that the body could operate at an angle of attack like an airfoil. The center fan driven by the exhaust of the 3 tangential turbojets buried inside produced almost all of the lifting force, blowing straight down, and the air diverted directed out around the D shaped ring and duct was for supplemental lift and attitude control. To gain speed it had to tilt the body to tilt rigid fan's thrust vector. In effect a kind of bizzaro-world helicopter.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your point is taken but in the Avrocar's case the body was never intended to function as a circular wing, as there was no means to propel it along so that the body could operate at an angle of attack like an airfoil. The center fan driven by the exhaust of the 3 tangential turbojets buried inside produced almost all of the lifting force, blowing straight down, and the air diverted directed out around the D shaped ring and duct was for supplemental lift and attitude control. To gain speed it had to tilt the body to tilt rigid fan's thrust vector. In effect a kind of bizzaro-world helicopter.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 hours ago
add a comment |
L3RCAN is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
L3RCAN is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
L3RCAN is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
L3RCAN is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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