How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?How can I convince skeptical rationalists that afterlife is for real and needs to be striven for?Naming the forces of the Purgatory?Is religious fanaticism a neccessity in a world where faith literally serves as a shield?How can new gods bring down the actual theocratic system?Why would a deity not be made weaker as more souls are being born?Why would genocide not hasten the apocalypse?Can a religious order keep the peace between nations with sacrificial games?How can a god justify it's own worship if it claims no moral authority?How can a race remain “good”?Why would competing gods ignore an obvious power source?
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How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
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How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
How can I convince skeptical rationalists that afterlife is for real and needs to be striven for?Naming the forces of the Purgatory?Is religious fanaticism a neccessity in a world where faith literally serves as a shield?How can new gods bring down the actual theocratic system?Why would a deity not be made weaker as more souls are being born?Why would genocide not hasten the apocalypse?Can a religious order keep the peace between nations with sacrificial games?How can a god justify it's own worship if it claims no moral authority?How can a race remain “good”?Why would competing gods ignore an obvious power source?
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God in this verse is similiar to a super-computer, a very large power source that continuously feeds on human souls to sustain itself. All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
The human deity is in an arms race with multiple gods ( orcs, elves, etc). Souls are power, and the more souls of a race exist, the more that particular god benefits when they go to it after death. Therefore, gods seek their individual races to expand as far and large as possible, creating the logic behind the command "be fruitful and multiply".
In our verse, most religions have a version of hell which exists to punish those that God sees as evil, usually reflecting primal fears of that culture. Souls which fail to follow the tenants of a faith spend eternity here suffering for their sins. In this world, gods cannot afford to send souls to to a separate place of torment because they depend on the collection of souls to increase their power, and disgarding them would be a waste. However, as souls are very valuable, their would be no reason for people to follow the rules of faith and remain "in good standing" with their god, as everyone is going to have the same fate of being absorbed into their deity.
How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
society religion
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show 13 more comments
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God in this verse is similiar to a super-computer, a very large power source that continuously feeds on human souls to sustain itself. All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
The human deity is in an arms race with multiple gods ( orcs, elves, etc). Souls are power, and the more souls of a race exist, the more that particular god benefits when they go to it after death. Therefore, gods seek their individual races to expand as far and large as possible, creating the logic behind the command "be fruitful and multiply".
In our verse, most religions have a version of hell which exists to punish those that God sees as evil, usually reflecting primal fears of that culture. Souls which fail to follow the tenants of a faith spend eternity here suffering for their sins. In this world, gods cannot afford to send souls to to a separate place of torment because they depend on the collection of souls to increase their power, and disgarding them would be a waste. However, as souls are very valuable, their would be no reason for people to follow the rules of faith and remain "in good standing" with their god, as everyone is going to have the same fate of being absorbed into their deity.
How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
society religion
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You chould check some religions like the Yorubá ones, native american ones, and Spiritism. Some branches of Buddhism don't believe in hell. Atheists don't believe in hell, but they are among the most vocal people I know when it comes to discouraging evil doing. And then there are Satanists, who are about the only people in the US defending a lot of people against some forms of evil doing, and they don't believe in hell either.
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– Renan
13 hours ago
5
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You do understand that according to many modern Christian theologians nobody actually goes to Hell, because in the end God is all-forgiving? And anyway, it is plain as day that the belief in hell did not do all that much to discourage evil doing...
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– AlexP
13 hours ago
7
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How do atheists avoid evil-doing, if they don't believe in hell?
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– VLAZ
12 hours ago
3
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@DonQualm is it really about world building or really basic ethics? And it's something that's been very often discussed in our real world, too where there are those who don't "have a hell" and yet aren't massive sinners. Conversely, plenty of religious people have not been discouraged at all by the concept of eternal damnation. There is a whole topic which we can explore where the belief in hell has caused more evil than prevented at various points in the real history of our real world.
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– VLAZ
12 hours ago
4
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The same way(s) many religions already do. Many religions aim at discourage evil-doing without the concept of Hell. This is a question that can only be asked by someone with a fragile understanding of religion.
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– a4android
11 hours ago
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show 13 more comments
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God in this verse is similiar to a super-computer, a very large power source that continuously feeds on human souls to sustain itself. All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
The human deity is in an arms race with multiple gods ( orcs, elves, etc). Souls are power, and the more souls of a race exist, the more that particular god benefits when they go to it after death. Therefore, gods seek their individual races to expand as far and large as possible, creating the logic behind the command "be fruitful and multiply".
In our verse, most religions have a version of hell which exists to punish those that God sees as evil, usually reflecting primal fears of that culture. Souls which fail to follow the tenants of a faith spend eternity here suffering for their sins. In this world, gods cannot afford to send souls to to a separate place of torment because they depend on the collection of souls to increase their power, and disgarding them would be a waste. However, as souls are very valuable, their would be no reason for people to follow the rules of faith and remain "in good standing" with their god, as everyone is going to have the same fate of being absorbed into their deity.
How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
society religion
$endgroup$
God in this verse is similiar to a super-computer, a very large power source that continuously feeds on human souls to sustain itself. All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
The human deity is in an arms race with multiple gods ( orcs, elves, etc). Souls are power, and the more souls of a race exist, the more that particular god benefits when they go to it after death. Therefore, gods seek their individual races to expand as far and large as possible, creating the logic behind the command "be fruitful and multiply".
In our verse, most religions have a version of hell which exists to punish those that God sees as evil, usually reflecting primal fears of that culture. Souls which fail to follow the tenants of a faith spend eternity here suffering for their sins. In this world, gods cannot afford to send souls to to a separate place of torment because they depend on the collection of souls to increase their power, and disgarding them would be a waste. However, as souls are very valuable, their would be no reason for people to follow the rules of faith and remain "in good standing" with their god, as everyone is going to have the same fate of being absorbed into their deity.
How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
society religion
society religion
asked 13 hours ago
IncognitoIncognito
9,201876132
9,201876132
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You chould check some religions like the Yorubá ones, native american ones, and Spiritism. Some branches of Buddhism don't believe in hell. Atheists don't believe in hell, but they are among the most vocal people I know when it comes to discouraging evil doing. And then there are Satanists, who are about the only people in the US defending a lot of people against some forms of evil doing, and they don't believe in hell either.
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– Renan
13 hours ago
5
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You do understand that according to many modern Christian theologians nobody actually goes to Hell, because in the end God is all-forgiving? And anyway, it is plain as day that the belief in hell did not do all that much to discourage evil doing...
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– AlexP
13 hours ago
7
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How do atheists avoid evil-doing, if they don't believe in hell?
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– VLAZ
12 hours ago
3
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@DonQualm is it really about world building or really basic ethics? And it's something that's been very often discussed in our real world, too where there are those who don't "have a hell" and yet aren't massive sinners. Conversely, plenty of religious people have not been discouraged at all by the concept of eternal damnation. There is a whole topic which we can explore where the belief in hell has caused more evil than prevented at various points in the real history of our real world.
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– VLAZ
12 hours ago
4
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The same way(s) many religions already do. Many religions aim at discourage evil-doing without the concept of Hell. This is a question that can only be asked by someone with a fragile understanding of religion.
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– a4android
11 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
5
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You chould check some religions like the Yorubá ones, native american ones, and Spiritism. Some branches of Buddhism don't believe in hell. Atheists don't believe in hell, but they are among the most vocal people I know when it comes to discouraging evil doing. And then there are Satanists, who are about the only people in the US defending a lot of people against some forms of evil doing, and they don't believe in hell either.
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– Renan
13 hours ago
5
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You do understand that according to many modern Christian theologians nobody actually goes to Hell, because in the end God is all-forgiving? And anyway, it is plain as day that the belief in hell did not do all that much to discourage evil doing...
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– AlexP
13 hours ago
7
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How do atheists avoid evil-doing, if they don't believe in hell?
$endgroup$
– VLAZ
12 hours ago
3
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@DonQualm is it really about world building or really basic ethics? And it's something that's been very often discussed in our real world, too where there are those who don't "have a hell" and yet aren't massive sinners. Conversely, plenty of religious people have not been discouraged at all by the concept of eternal damnation. There is a whole topic which we can explore where the belief in hell has caused more evil than prevented at various points in the real history of our real world.
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– VLAZ
12 hours ago
4
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The same way(s) many religions already do. Many religions aim at discourage evil-doing without the concept of Hell. This is a question that can only be asked by someone with a fragile understanding of religion.
$endgroup$
– a4android
11 hours ago
5
5
$begingroup$
You chould check some religions like the Yorubá ones, native american ones, and Spiritism. Some branches of Buddhism don't believe in hell. Atheists don't believe in hell, but they are among the most vocal people I know when it comes to discouraging evil doing. And then there are Satanists, who are about the only people in the US defending a lot of people against some forms of evil doing, and they don't believe in hell either.
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– Renan
13 hours ago
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You chould check some religions like the Yorubá ones, native american ones, and Spiritism. Some branches of Buddhism don't believe in hell. Atheists don't believe in hell, but they are among the most vocal people I know when it comes to discouraging evil doing. And then there are Satanists, who are about the only people in the US defending a lot of people against some forms of evil doing, and they don't believe in hell either.
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– Renan
13 hours ago
5
5
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You do understand that according to many modern Christian theologians nobody actually goes to Hell, because in the end God is all-forgiving? And anyway, it is plain as day that the belief in hell did not do all that much to discourage evil doing...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
You do understand that according to many modern Christian theologians nobody actually goes to Hell, because in the end God is all-forgiving? And anyway, it is plain as day that the belief in hell did not do all that much to discourage evil doing...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
13 hours ago
7
7
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How do atheists avoid evil-doing, if they don't believe in hell?
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– VLAZ
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
How do atheists avoid evil-doing, if they don't believe in hell?
$endgroup$
– VLAZ
12 hours ago
3
3
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@DonQualm is it really about world building or really basic ethics? And it's something that's been very often discussed in our real world, too where there are those who don't "have a hell" and yet aren't massive sinners. Conversely, plenty of religious people have not been discouraged at all by the concept of eternal damnation. There is a whole topic which we can explore where the belief in hell has caused more evil than prevented at various points in the real history of our real world.
$endgroup$
– VLAZ
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DonQualm is it really about world building or really basic ethics? And it's something that's been very often discussed in our real world, too where there are those who don't "have a hell" and yet aren't massive sinners. Conversely, plenty of religious people have not been discouraged at all by the concept of eternal damnation. There is a whole topic which we can explore where the belief in hell has caused more evil than prevented at various points in the real history of our real world.
$endgroup$
– VLAZ
12 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
The same way(s) many religions already do. Many religions aim at discourage evil-doing without the concept of Hell. This is a question that can only be asked by someone with a fragile understanding of religion.
$endgroup$
– a4android
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
The same way(s) many religions already do. Many religions aim at discourage evil-doing without the concept of Hell. This is a question that can only be asked by someone with a fragile understanding of religion.
$endgroup$
– a4android
11 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
9 Answers
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There are two parts to any religion. There's the god bothering, heaven and hell bible bashing aspect, and then there's the community. Religion isn't just about god and belief, it's also about community, identity and belonging. This is a very powerful aspect that should never be underestimated.
It's really the community that controls your behaviour over and above what the rules actually say. You'll see this when you look closely at any religious group and compare their day to day behaviour with what's written in the rules and scriptures.
An example of this would be some Christian groups, where aspects of the old testament are quoted as the basis for holding certain positions on behaviours such as homosexuality, when the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross technically absolved them of any requirement to follow the rules of the old testament.
So why? because the community has said that this is the course of action to follow. To be a member of the group you must behave like this. The people they identify with behave like that, and so they do too.
The real enforcers of the rules are the gossiping curtain twitchers watching your every move, not what's written in the book. The punishment for failing to follow the rules of the group is expulsion from the group, social exclusion. The city dwellers among us think nothing of this, there are plenty of other groups, but in a small town or village, places where everyone is a member of the same church, it's a serious punishment.
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What is "evil" from this God-battery's point of view?
It values large soul counts. So anything which brings another soul into existence is good and anything that gets in the way of new soul creation is evil. Promiscuity and drunken Bacchanalia are good. Chastity, planned-parenthood and "headaches" are all evil.
Murder which is classically considered evil doesn't actually interfere with soul counts. It just harvests an already existing soul before its time. Murder of a female of childbearing age however is the ultimate evil act. Sinners who perpetrate this most unholy act should be harvested in some lengthy and excruciating way.
Such a definition of "good" and "evil" actually makes the religion's task of encouraging "good", very easy. Promiscuity and the defense of females is hardwired into our genes. No heaven or hell would be needed to keep us virtuous within such a moral code.
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All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
Given this information, I can think of one thing. People who do not follow a "path" that is deemed right by their god would feel bad, an interior force that would make them feel worse and worse the more they participate actions that are against their god's value (they could still do it, they'd just feel more and more uneasy).
Think of someone walking out their dogs on leashes. The human follows a defined path. Some dogs may hate on each other and will either fight or stay away from their rivals. Some dogs may love each other, getting close and running around each other, entertwining their leashes. If a dog wants to go somewhere the human isn't going, it'll eventually feel a "pull", as the leash won't be able to extend all the way. The more the dog tries to go where the human doesn't, the more powerful the pull will get.
If the dogs want to be able to walk at ease, they will have to learn to walk together in the same direction as the human walking them. However, if too many of them try to follow another path, the human might feel pulled towards them and will diverge from the original path.
You could think of the metaphysical umbilical cords as the "leashes" and the values of a given god as the "path" taken by the human. The more someone strays away from their god, the more they feel an uncomfortable "pull" towards the right path. Each god is different and might not follow the same path (each of them is walking out their own "dogs"). You could also use the fact that some leashes might entertwine with each other as people spend time together (relationships, mortal enemies, seller/buyer, families, random encounters, etc.), to draw their lives closer and closer together, making them feel the same kind of "pull" when following a different path from one another.
New contributor
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Consider Luke 11:11-13
Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a
snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy
Spirit to those who ask him!
Here, Jesus acknowledges that even evil people favor moral behavior towards their children. From this it can be inferred that without Hell, the legacy you leave for your family could become the primary motivator toward how you live your life.
If you also consider the old adage, "You are what you eat", then this lends itself to a strange relationship between god and man in which mankind strives to die in a state of being good and kind, because it makes their god good and kind. This would also lead to a whole new perspective on rehabilitation where no one wants anyone to die while they are still evil because it adds to the malliciousness of their own existence. In essence, Heaven and Hell still sort of exist, but they exist here on Earth as the consequences of our ancestors actions, and the lives we mortals live determine if our own children get to live in a state of Heaven or Hell.
Another possible answer lies in John 14:15:
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
For some believers, the simple call to love their god and maker is all the reason they need to avoid evil. You mention your people can feel their connection to their deity; so, if your religion were to foster a "relationship" between the living person and the divine being, then if their god asks them nicely not to do something wrong, then they are just as likely to avoid the bad behavior as if your close friend or family member were to ask you the same question.
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There already exit Christian religions that don't believe in Dante's vision.
A God that would punish and torture people for all eternity is not the loving God of the Bible. For these believers, the Bible's hell is simply a name for the graves where totally unconscious bodies lie awaiting the resurrection.
At the final judgement, people will either be transformed to spiritual children of God, or will be permanently destroyed, burnt to ashes, and exist no more.
Followers do the right thing because they believe it is the right thing, not because they believe their behaviour will earn them a reward, and not because they fear punishment. They have hope of their eventual spiritual fate, but they don't fear the alternative of permanent unconscious death any more than an atheist fears being dead.
Note that I'm not evangelizing or trying to convert anyone, but you might get some useful ideas from these examples of booklets and articles on the subject:
United Church of God[]1
Philadelphia Church of God What Is Hell?
Living Church of God The Truth about Hell
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Christians that don't ascribe to Hell tend to cite John 14:2 "there are many houses in my father's mansion" as an alternate interpretation that Hell does not exist, but rewards still exist based on a believer's merit.
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– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
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@Nosajimiki, see also Luke 19:16-19: "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.".
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– Ray Butterworth
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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As Renan suggested in the comments, your god could set things up like the Hindu or Buddhist system, where the criminal dead get recycled into lesser beings until they get it right.
Instead of lesser beings, the reincarnation would be into less fortunate circumstances for evil doers and more fortunate circumstances for the good and pious. Only those who mange to do sufficient good to break out of the wheel get a permanent place with their god. Everyone else gets drained and sent back for another round. Rechargeable batteries: cheaper in the long run.
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Why would the deity send you back instead of just consuming your energy the first time? Your moral rightness does not seem to make you more or less of a snack the way the OP worded the question, nor does being consumed by your god necessarily sound like a reward.
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– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
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@Nosajimiki that's assuming the god can put a permanent end to someone's existence. Which can be good, or can be bad as a deterrent, the argument here is rather open. "I'm going do die soon, so I don't care and will do many evil things!" - "You will be reincarnated as a maggot!" - "No, no, I will behave then!"
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– Alexander
8 hours ago
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@Nosajimiki: Think of it like this: If the god needs energy, which it gets from souls, then it must also require energy to make them. Otherwise, the god can simply create an infinite number of souls, kill them off in an instant and harvest them in perpetuity. Thus, there must be a cost associated with soul creation. By recycling a soul, this cost is avoided, at the expense of a slightly lesser amount of energy received on each cycle
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– nzaman
7 hours ago
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@nzaman If that were the case, then why not always recycle the souls regardless of their deeds? Perhaps a god might have a reason for sending certain people back with preferential lives, but giving up the power he's invested into a soul to take someone out of the cycle does not seem in the god's best interest.
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– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
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In Mormonism, they have different levels of heaven. A lower level doesn't necessarily mean hell, just not as prestigious as the highest level. Similarly in Norse Mythology, some people go to Valhalla to be waiters/waitresses for eternity. Obviously someone would rather be served then the server, but by no means is the Valhalla Server's life hell.
A solution of combining these thoughts with yours, might lay in the level of fuel each follower provides the God; followers would make themselves the best they can be to provide the best fuel for God, allowing them selves a sense of purity on earth and accomplishment in death.
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While many religions have "Not Hell" punishments, the question is saying there is no difference at all what happens when you die. You just become part of your god's power; so, Mormonism and Norse solutions to a Hell-less afterlife don't seem to answer the question.
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– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
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@Nosajimiki I edited the answer to clearly connect my idea to his.
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– Alex
9 hours ago
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How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
The same way you discourage your children from doing evil: a combination of
- Moral teachings/parables,
- examples of the temporal and spiritual rewards that one receives for Good Behavior,
- examples of the temporal punishments one receives for Bad Behavior, and, finally
- temporal punishments for Bad Behavior.
Whether those temporal punishments are enacted by the religious authorities, the secular authorities or God Himself is up to you.
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Honor and Shame
Well, evil can be discouraged in several ways without necessitating a negative afterlife, though it is expedient to have one. However, it is not necessary, as evidenced by the ancient Semitic religions which had no real conception of the afterlife beyond a shadowy rest. For instance, most ancient Near Eastern cultures were very strict honor and shame cultures; societally negative actions, which can generally be called evil, were dishonorable, and led to ostracism in the community.
People could be driven to good by what is essentially divinely sanctified peer-pressure; the natural human instinct toward social acceptance, and the desire to be seen as a valued and worthwhile member of the community can encourage altruistic behavior.
The honor of the religion and the honor of the God could be linked via the religion's holy texts to the behavior of its adherents (and even without the explicit connection, outsiders will judge the deity's honor by the behavior of its devotees). This would lead to the genuine adherents wanting to demonstrate honorable behavior.
Obviously, and honor and shame system would not "keep" everyone "good," as there are always those who have no honor, and thus no shame. However, the wider religious community should be able to defend the honor of their God from these rogue elements.
I have found that writing practical examples of honor and shame cultures is difficult, because, as a U.S. citizen, the general culture is very different from any extant or previously existent honor/shame cultures; however, I don't doubt their strength. For instance, in modern Japan, families will distance themselves from deviant family members to protect the honor of the family.
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9 Answers
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$begingroup$
There are two parts to any religion. There's the god bothering, heaven and hell bible bashing aspect, and then there's the community. Religion isn't just about god and belief, it's also about community, identity and belonging. This is a very powerful aspect that should never be underestimated.
It's really the community that controls your behaviour over and above what the rules actually say. You'll see this when you look closely at any religious group and compare their day to day behaviour with what's written in the rules and scriptures.
An example of this would be some Christian groups, where aspects of the old testament are quoted as the basis for holding certain positions on behaviours such as homosexuality, when the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross technically absolved them of any requirement to follow the rules of the old testament.
So why? because the community has said that this is the course of action to follow. To be a member of the group you must behave like this. The people they identify with behave like that, and so they do too.
The real enforcers of the rules are the gossiping curtain twitchers watching your every move, not what's written in the book. The punishment for failing to follow the rules of the group is expulsion from the group, social exclusion. The city dwellers among us think nothing of this, there are plenty of other groups, but in a small town or village, places where everyone is a member of the same church, it's a serious punishment.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are two parts to any religion. There's the god bothering, heaven and hell bible bashing aspect, and then there's the community. Religion isn't just about god and belief, it's also about community, identity and belonging. This is a very powerful aspect that should never be underestimated.
It's really the community that controls your behaviour over and above what the rules actually say. You'll see this when you look closely at any religious group and compare their day to day behaviour with what's written in the rules and scriptures.
An example of this would be some Christian groups, where aspects of the old testament are quoted as the basis for holding certain positions on behaviours such as homosexuality, when the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross technically absolved them of any requirement to follow the rules of the old testament.
So why? because the community has said that this is the course of action to follow. To be a member of the group you must behave like this. The people they identify with behave like that, and so they do too.
The real enforcers of the rules are the gossiping curtain twitchers watching your every move, not what's written in the book. The punishment for failing to follow the rules of the group is expulsion from the group, social exclusion. The city dwellers among us think nothing of this, there are plenty of other groups, but in a small town or village, places where everyone is a member of the same church, it's a serious punishment.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are two parts to any religion. There's the god bothering, heaven and hell bible bashing aspect, and then there's the community. Religion isn't just about god and belief, it's also about community, identity and belonging. This is a very powerful aspect that should never be underestimated.
It's really the community that controls your behaviour over and above what the rules actually say. You'll see this when you look closely at any religious group and compare their day to day behaviour with what's written in the rules and scriptures.
An example of this would be some Christian groups, where aspects of the old testament are quoted as the basis for holding certain positions on behaviours such as homosexuality, when the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross technically absolved them of any requirement to follow the rules of the old testament.
So why? because the community has said that this is the course of action to follow. To be a member of the group you must behave like this. The people they identify with behave like that, and so they do too.
The real enforcers of the rules are the gossiping curtain twitchers watching your every move, not what's written in the book. The punishment for failing to follow the rules of the group is expulsion from the group, social exclusion. The city dwellers among us think nothing of this, there are plenty of other groups, but in a small town or village, places where everyone is a member of the same church, it's a serious punishment.
$endgroup$
There are two parts to any religion. There's the god bothering, heaven and hell bible bashing aspect, and then there's the community. Religion isn't just about god and belief, it's also about community, identity and belonging. This is a very powerful aspect that should never be underestimated.
It's really the community that controls your behaviour over and above what the rules actually say. You'll see this when you look closely at any religious group and compare their day to day behaviour with what's written in the rules and scriptures.
An example of this would be some Christian groups, where aspects of the old testament are quoted as the basis for holding certain positions on behaviours such as homosexuality, when the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross technically absolved them of any requirement to follow the rules of the old testament.
So why? because the community has said that this is the course of action to follow. To be a member of the group you must behave like this. The people they identify with behave like that, and so they do too.
The real enforcers of the rules are the gossiping curtain twitchers watching your every move, not what's written in the book. The punishment for failing to follow the rules of the group is expulsion from the group, social exclusion. The city dwellers among us think nothing of this, there are plenty of other groups, but in a small town or village, places where everyone is a member of the same church, it's a serious punishment.
edited 11 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
SeparatrixSeparatrix
88.2k32205343
88.2k32205343
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What is "evil" from this God-battery's point of view?
It values large soul counts. So anything which brings another soul into existence is good and anything that gets in the way of new soul creation is evil. Promiscuity and drunken Bacchanalia are good. Chastity, planned-parenthood and "headaches" are all evil.
Murder which is classically considered evil doesn't actually interfere with soul counts. It just harvests an already existing soul before its time. Murder of a female of childbearing age however is the ultimate evil act. Sinners who perpetrate this most unholy act should be harvested in some lengthy and excruciating way.
Such a definition of "good" and "evil" actually makes the religion's task of encouraging "good", very easy. Promiscuity and the defense of females is hardwired into our genes. No heaven or hell would be needed to keep us virtuous within such a moral code.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What is "evil" from this God-battery's point of view?
It values large soul counts. So anything which brings another soul into existence is good and anything that gets in the way of new soul creation is evil. Promiscuity and drunken Bacchanalia are good. Chastity, planned-parenthood and "headaches" are all evil.
Murder which is classically considered evil doesn't actually interfere with soul counts. It just harvests an already existing soul before its time. Murder of a female of childbearing age however is the ultimate evil act. Sinners who perpetrate this most unholy act should be harvested in some lengthy and excruciating way.
Such a definition of "good" and "evil" actually makes the religion's task of encouraging "good", very easy. Promiscuity and the defense of females is hardwired into our genes. No heaven or hell would be needed to keep us virtuous within such a moral code.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What is "evil" from this God-battery's point of view?
It values large soul counts. So anything which brings another soul into existence is good and anything that gets in the way of new soul creation is evil. Promiscuity and drunken Bacchanalia are good. Chastity, planned-parenthood and "headaches" are all evil.
Murder which is classically considered evil doesn't actually interfere with soul counts. It just harvests an already existing soul before its time. Murder of a female of childbearing age however is the ultimate evil act. Sinners who perpetrate this most unholy act should be harvested in some lengthy and excruciating way.
Such a definition of "good" and "evil" actually makes the religion's task of encouraging "good", very easy. Promiscuity and the defense of females is hardwired into our genes. No heaven or hell would be needed to keep us virtuous within such a moral code.
$endgroup$
What is "evil" from this God-battery's point of view?
It values large soul counts. So anything which brings another soul into existence is good and anything that gets in the way of new soul creation is evil. Promiscuity and drunken Bacchanalia are good. Chastity, planned-parenthood and "headaches" are all evil.
Murder which is classically considered evil doesn't actually interfere with soul counts. It just harvests an already existing soul before its time. Murder of a female of childbearing age however is the ultimate evil act. Sinners who perpetrate this most unholy act should be harvested in some lengthy and excruciating way.
Such a definition of "good" and "evil" actually makes the religion's task of encouraging "good", very easy. Promiscuity and the defense of females is hardwired into our genes. No heaven or hell would be needed to keep us virtuous within such a moral code.
answered 11 hours ago
Henry TaylorHenry Taylor
47.5k872170
47.5k872170
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
Given this information, I can think of one thing. People who do not follow a "path" that is deemed right by their god would feel bad, an interior force that would make them feel worse and worse the more they participate actions that are against their god's value (they could still do it, they'd just feel more and more uneasy).
Think of someone walking out their dogs on leashes. The human follows a defined path. Some dogs may hate on each other and will either fight or stay away from their rivals. Some dogs may love each other, getting close and running around each other, entertwining their leashes. If a dog wants to go somewhere the human isn't going, it'll eventually feel a "pull", as the leash won't be able to extend all the way. The more the dog tries to go where the human doesn't, the more powerful the pull will get.
If the dogs want to be able to walk at ease, they will have to learn to walk together in the same direction as the human walking them. However, if too many of them try to follow another path, the human might feel pulled towards them and will diverge from the original path.
You could think of the metaphysical umbilical cords as the "leashes" and the values of a given god as the "path" taken by the human. The more someone strays away from their god, the more they feel an uncomfortable "pull" towards the right path. Each god is different and might not follow the same path (each of them is walking out their own "dogs"). You could also use the fact that some leashes might entertwine with each other as people spend time together (relationships, mortal enemies, seller/buyer, families, random encounters, etc.), to draw their lives closer and closer together, making them feel the same kind of "pull" when following a different path from one another.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
Given this information, I can think of one thing. People who do not follow a "path" that is deemed right by their god would feel bad, an interior force that would make them feel worse and worse the more they participate actions that are against their god's value (they could still do it, they'd just feel more and more uneasy).
Think of someone walking out their dogs on leashes. The human follows a defined path. Some dogs may hate on each other and will either fight or stay away from their rivals. Some dogs may love each other, getting close and running around each other, entertwining their leashes. If a dog wants to go somewhere the human isn't going, it'll eventually feel a "pull", as the leash won't be able to extend all the way. The more the dog tries to go where the human doesn't, the more powerful the pull will get.
If the dogs want to be able to walk at ease, they will have to learn to walk together in the same direction as the human walking them. However, if too many of them try to follow another path, the human might feel pulled towards them and will diverge from the original path.
You could think of the metaphysical umbilical cords as the "leashes" and the values of a given god as the "path" taken by the human. The more someone strays away from their god, the more they feel an uncomfortable "pull" towards the right path. Each god is different and might not follow the same path (each of them is walking out their own "dogs"). You could also use the fact that some leashes might entertwine with each other as people spend time together (relationships, mortal enemies, seller/buyer, families, random encounters, etc.), to draw their lives closer and closer together, making them feel the same kind of "pull" when following a different path from one another.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
Given this information, I can think of one thing. People who do not follow a "path" that is deemed right by their god would feel bad, an interior force that would make them feel worse and worse the more they participate actions that are against their god's value (they could still do it, they'd just feel more and more uneasy).
Think of someone walking out their dogs on leashes. The human follows a defined path. Some dogs may hate on each other and will either fight or stay away from their rivals. Some dogs may love each other, getting close and running around each other, entertwining their leashes. If a dog wants to go somewhere the human isn't going, it'll eventually feel a "pull", as the leash won't be able to extend all the way. The more the dog tries to go where the human doesn't, the more powerful the pull will get.
If the dogs want to be able to walk at ease, they will have to learn to walk together in the same direction as the human walking them. However, if too many of them try to follow another path, the human might feel pulled towards them and will diverge from the original path.
You could think of the metaphysical umbilical cords as the "leashes" and the values of a given god as the "path" taken by the human. The more someone strays away from their god, the more they feel an uncomfortable "pull" towards the right path. Each god is different and might not follow the same path (each of them is walking out their own "dogs"). You could also use the fact that some leashes might entertwine with each other as people spend time together (relationships, mortal enemies, seller/buyer, families, random encounters, etc.), to draw their lives closer and closer together, making them feel the same kind of "pull" when following a different path from one another.
New contributor
$endgroup$
All human souls come from God, and remain connected to it through a metaphysical umbilical cord. A person is born with this cord, as it is transferred to them from its mother. When that person dies, that cord draws that individual to God, allowing it to subsume the soul. It then eternally feed on it like a living battery. Every human instinctually feels this connection to their god throughout their life, confirming his existence to all.
Given this information, I can think of one thing. People who do not follow a "path" that is deemed right by their god would feel bad, an interior force that would make them feel worse and worse the more they participate actions that are against their god's value (they could still do it, they'd just feel more and more uneasy).
Think of someone walking out their dogs on leashes. The human follows a defined path. Some dogs may hate on each other and will either fight or stay away from their rivals. Some dogs may love each other, getting close and running around each other, entertwining their leashes. If a dog wants to go somewhere the human isn't going, it'll eventually feel a "pull", as the leash won't be able to extend all the way. The more the dog tries to go where the human doesn't, the more powerful the pull will get.
If the dogs want to be able to walk at ease, they will have to learn to walk together in the same direction as the human walking them. However, if too many of them try to follow another path, the human might feel pulled towards them and will diverge from the original path.
You could think of the metaphysical umbilical cords as the "leashes" and the values of a given god as the "path" taken by the human. The more someone strays away from their god, the more they feel an uncomfortable "pull" towards the right path. Each god is different and might not follow the same path (each of them is walking out their own "dogs"). You could also use the fact that some leashes might entertwine with each other as people spend time together (relationships, mortal enemies, seller/buyer, families, random encounters, etc.), to draw their lives closer and closer together, making them feel the same kind of "pull" when following a different path from one another.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 11 hours ago
M. PavizaM. Paviza
412
412
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider Luke 11:11-13
Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a
snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy
Spirit to those who ask him!
Here, Jesus acknowledges that even evil people favor moral behavior towards their children. From this it can be inferred that without Hell, the legacy you leave for your family could become the primary motivator toward how you live your life.
If you also consider the old adage, "You are what you eat", then this lends itself to a strange relationship between god and man in which mankind strives to die in a state of being good and kind, because it makes their god good and kind. This would also lead to a whole new perspective on rehabilitation where no one wants anyone to die while they are still evil because it adds to the malliciousness of their own existence. In essence, Heaven and Hell still sort of exist, but they exist here on Earth as the consequences of our ancestors actions, and the lives we mortals live determine if our own children get to live in a state of Heaven or Hell.
Another possible answer lies in John 14:15:
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
For some believers, the simple call to love their god and maker is all the reason they need to avoid evil. You mention your people can feel their connection to their deity; so, if your religion were to foster a "relationship" between the living person and the divine being, then if their god asks them nicely not to do something wrong, then they are just as likely to avoid the bad behavior as if your close friend or family member were to ask you the same question.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider Luke 11:11-13
Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a
snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy
Spirit to those who ask him!
Here, Jesus acknowledges that even evil people favor moral behavior towards their children. From this it can be inferred that without Hell, the legacy you leave for your family could become the primary motivator toward how you live your life.
If you also consider the old adage, "You are what you eat", then this lends itself to a strange relationship between god and man in which mankind strives to die in a state of being good and kind, because it makes their god good and kind. This would also lead to a whole new perspective on rehabilitation where no one wants anyone to die while they are still evil because it adds to the malliciousness of their own existence. In essence, Heaven and Hell still sort of exist, but they exist here on Earth as the consequences of our ancestors actions, and the lives we mortals live determine if our own children get to live in a state of Heaven or Hell.
Another possible answer lies in John 14:15:
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
For some believers, the simple call to love their god and maker is all the reason they need to avoid evil. You mention your people can feel their connection to their deity; so, if your religion were to foster a "relationship" between the living person and the divine being, then if their god asks them nicely not to do something wrong, then they are just as likely to avoid the bad behavior as if your close friend or family member were to ask you the same question.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider Luke 11:11-13
Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a
snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy
Spirit to those who ask him!
Here, Jesus acknowledges that even evil people favor moral behavior towards their children. From this it can be inferred that without Hell, the legacy you leave for your family could become the primary motivator toward how you live your life.
If you also consider the old adage, "You are what you eat", then this lends itself to a strange relationship between god and man in which mankind strives to die in a state of being good and kind, because it makes their god good and kind. This would also lead to a whole new perspective on rehabilitation where no one wants anyone to die while they are still evil because it adds to the malliciousness of their own existence. In essence, Heaven and Hell still sort of exist, but they exist here on Earth as the consequences of our ancestors actions, and the lives we mortals live determine if our own children get to live in a state of Heaven or Hell.
Another possible answer lies in John 14:15:
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
For some believers, the simple call to love their god and maker is all the reason they need to avoid evil. You mention your people can feel their connection to their deity; so, if your religion were to foster a "relationship" between the living person and the divine being, then if their god asks them nicely not to do something wrong, then they are just as likely to avoid the bad behavior as if your close friend or family member were to ask you the same question.
$endgroup$
Consider Luke 11:11-13
Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a
snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy
Spirit to those who ask him!
Here, Jesus acknowledges that even evil people favor moral behavior towards their children. From this it can be inferred that without Hell, the legacy you leave for your family could become the primary motivator toward how you live your life.
If you also consider the old adage, "You are what you eat", then this lends itself to a strange relationship between god and man in which mankind strives to die in a state of being good and kind, because it makes their god good and kind. This would also lead to a whole new perspective on rehabilitation where no one wants anyone to die while they are still evil because it adds to the malliciousness of their own existence. In essence, Heaven and Hell still sort of exist, but they exist here on Earth as the consequences of our ancestors actions, and the lives we mortals live determine if our own children get to live in a state of Heaven or Hell.
Another possible answer lies in John 14:15:
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
For some believers, the simple call to love their god and maker is all the reason they need to avoid evil. You mention your people can feel their connection to their deity; so, if your religion were to foster a "relationship" between the living person and the divine being, then if their god asks them nicely not to do something wrong, then they are just as likely to avoid the bad behavior as if your close friend or family member were to ask you the same question.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
NosajimikiNosajimiki
6,2491537
6,2491537
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There already exit Christian religions that don't believe in Dante's vision.
A God that would punish and torture people for all eternity is not the loving God of the Bible. For these believers, the Bible's hell is simply a name for the graves where totally unconscious bodies lie awaiting the resurrection.
At the final judgement, people will either be transformed to spiritual children of God, or will be permanently destroyed, burnt to ashes, and exist no more.
Followers do the right thing because they believe it is the right thing, not because they believe their behaviour will earn them a reward, and not because they fear punishment. They have hope of their eventual spiritual fate, but they don't fear the alternative of permanent unconscious death any more than an atheist fears being dead.
Note that I'm not evangelizing or trying to convert anyone, but you might get some useful ideas from these examples of booklets and articles on the subject:
United Church of God[]1
Philadelphia Church of God What Is Hell?
Living Church of God The Truth about Hell
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Christians that don't ascribe to Hell tend to cite John 14:2 "there are many houses in my father's mansion" as an alternate interpretation that Hell does not exist, but rewards still exist based on a believer's merit.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki, see also Luke 19:16-19: "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.".
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There already exit Christian religions that don't believe in Dante's vision.
A God that would punish and torture people for all eternity is not the loving God of the Bible. For these believers, the Bible's hell is simply a name for the graves where totally unconscious bodies lie awaiting the resurrection.
At the final judgement, people will either be transformed to spiritual children of God, or will be permanently destroyed, burnt to ashes, and exist no more.
Followers do the right thing because they believe it is the right thing, not because they believe their behaviour will earn them a reward, and not because they fear punishment. They have hope of their eventual spiritual fate, but they don't fear the alternative of permanent unconscious death any more than an atheist fears being dead.
Note that I'm not evangelizing or trying to convert anyone, but you might get some useful ideas from these examples of booklets and articles on the subject:
United Church of God[]1
Philadelphia Church of God What Is Hell?
Living Church of God The Truth about Hell
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Christians that don't ascribe to Hell tend to cite John 14:2 "there are many houses in my father's mansion" as an alternate interpretation that Hell does not exist, but rewards still exist based on a believer's merit.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki, see also Luke 19:16-19: "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.".
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There already exit Christian religions that don't believe in Dante's vision.
A God that would punish and torture people for all eternity is not the loving God of the Bible. For these believers, the Bible's hell is simply a name for the graves where totally unconscious bodies lie awaiting the resurrection.
At the final judgement, people will either be transformed to spiritual children of God, or will be permanently destroyed, burnt to ashes, and exist no more.
Followers do the right thing because they believe it is the right thing, not because they believe their behaviour will earn them a reward, and not because they fear punishment. They have hope of their eventual spiritual fate, but they don't fear the alternative of permanent unconscious death any more than an atheist fears being dead.
Note that I'm not evangelizing or trying to convert anyone, but you might get some useful ideas from these examples of booklets and articles on the subject:
United Church of God[]1
Philadelphia Church of God What Is Hell?
Living Church of God The Truth about Hell
$endgroup$
There already exit Christian religions that don't believe in Dante's vision.
A God that would punish and torture people for all eternity is not the loving God of the Bible. For these believers, the Bible's hell is simply a name for the graves where totally unconscious bodies lie awaiting the resurrection.
At the final judgement, people will either be transformed to spiritual children of God, or will be permanently destroyed, burnt to ashes, and exist no more.
Followers do the right thing because they believe it is the right thing, not because they believe their behaviour will earn them a reward, and not because they fear punishment. They have hope of their eventual spiritual fate, but they don't fear the alternative of permanent unconscious death any more than an atheist fears being dead.
Note that I'm not evangelizing or trying to convert anyone, but you might get some useful ideas from these examples of booklets and articles on the subject:
United Church of God[]1
Philadelphia Church of God What Is Hell?
Living Church of God The Truth about Hell
answered 11 hours ago
Ray ButterworthRay Butterworth
1,4091312
1,4091312
2
$begingroup$
Christians that don't ascribe to Hell tend to cite John 14:2 "there are many houses in my father's mansion" as an alternate interpretation that Hell does not exist, but rewards still exist based on a believer's merit.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki, see also Luke 19:16-19: "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.".
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Christians that don't ascribe to Hell tend to cite John 14:2 "there are many houses in my father's mansion" as an alternate interpretation that Hell does not exist, but rewards still exist based on a believer's merit.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki, see also Luke 19:16-19: "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.".
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Christians that don't ascribe to Hell tend to cite John 14:2 "there are many houses in my father's mansion" as an alternate interpretation that Hell does not exist, but rewards still exist based on a believer's merit.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Christians that don't ascribe to Hell tend to cite John 14:2 "there are many houses in my father's mansion" as an alternate interpretation that Hell does not exist, but rewards still exist based on a believer's merit.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki, see also Luke 19:16-19: "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.".
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki, see also Luke 19:16-19: "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.".
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Renan suggested in the comments, your god could set things up like the Hindu or Buddhist system, where the criminal dead get recycled into lesser beings until they get it right.
Instead of lesser beings, the reincarnation would be into less fortunate circumstances for evil doers and more fortunate circumstances for the good and pious. Only those who mange to do sufficient good to break out of the wheel get a permanent place with their god. Everyone else gets drained and sent back for another round. Rechargeable batteries: cheaper in the long run.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Why would the deity send you back instead of just consuming your energy the first time? Your moral rightness does not seem to make you more or less of a snack the way the OP worded the question, nor does being consumed by your god necessarily sound like a reward.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki that's assuming the god can put a permanent end to someone's existence. Which can be good, or can be bad as a deterrent, the argument here is rather open. "I'm going do die soon, so I don't care and will do many evil things!" - "You will be reincarnated as a maggot!" - "No, no, I will behave then!"
$endgroup$
– Alexander
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki: Think of it like this: If the god needs energy, which it gets from souls, then it must also require energy to make them. Otherwise, the god can simply create an infinite number of souls, kill them off in an instant and harvest them in perpetuity. Thus, there must be a cost associated with soul creation. By recycling a soul, this cost is avoided, at the expense of a slightly lesser amount of energy received on each cycle
$endgroup$
– nzaman
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@nzaman If that were the case, then why not always recycle the souls regardless of their deeds? Perhaps a god might have a reason for sending certain people back with preferential lives, but giving up the power he's invested into a soul to take someone out of the cycle does not seem in the god's best interest.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Renan suggested in the comments, your god could set things up like the Hindu or Buddhist system, where the criminal dead get recycled into lesser beings until they get it right.
Instead of lesser beings, the reincarnation would be into less fortunate circumstances for evil doers and more fortunate circumstances for the good and pious. Only those who mange to do sufficient good to break out of the wheel get a permanent place with their god. Everyone else gets drained and sent back for another round. Rechargeable batteries: cheaper in the long run.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Why would the deity send you back instead of just consuming your energy the first time? Your moral rightness does not seem to make you more or less of a snack the way the OP worded the question, nor does being consumed by your god necessarily sound like a reward.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki that's assuming the god can put a permanent end to someone's existence. Which can be good, or can be bad as a deterrent, the argument here is rather open. "I'm going do die soon, so I don't care and will do many evil things!" - "You will be reincarnated as a maggot!" - "No, no, I will behave then!"
$endgroup$
– Alexander
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki: Think of it like this: If the god needs energy, which it gets from souls, then it must also require energy to make them. Otherwise, the god can simply create an infinite number of souls, kill them off in an instant and harvest them in perpetuity. Thus, there must be a cost associated with soul creation. By recycling a soul, this cost is avoided, at the expense of a slightly lesser amount of energy received on each cycle
$endgroup$
– nzaman
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@nzaman If that were the case, then why not always recycle the souls regardless of their deeds? Perhaps a god might have a reason for sending certain people back with preferential lives, but giving up the power he's invested into a soul to take someone out of the cycle does not seem in the god's best interest.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Renan suggested in the comments, your god could set things up like the Hindu or Buddhist system, where the criminal dead get recycled into lesser beings until they get it right.
Instead of lesser beings, the reincarnation would be into less fortunate circumstances for evil doers and more fortunate circumstances for the good and pious. Only those who mange to do sufficient good to break out of the wheel get a permanent place with their god. Everyone else gets drained and sent back for another round. Rechargeable batteries: cheaper in the long run.
$endgroup$
As Renan suggested in the comments, your god could set things up like the Hindu or Buddhist system, where the criminal dead get recycled into lesser beings until they get it right.
Instead of lesser beings, the reincarnation would be into less fortunate circumstances for evil doers and more fortunate circumstances for the good and pious. Only those who mange to do sufficient good to break out of the wheel get a permanent place with their god. Everyone else gets drained and sent back for another round. Rechargeable batteries: cheaper in the long run.
answered 10 hours ago
nzamannzaman
9,80211747
9,80211747
$begingroup$
Why would the deity send you back instead of just consuming your energy the first time? Your moral rightness does not seem to make you more or less of a snack the way the OP worded the question, nor does being consumed by your god necessarily sound like a reward.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki that's assuming the god can put a permanent end to someone's existence. Which can be good, or can be bad as a deterrent, the argument here is rather open. "I'm going do die soon, so I don't care and will do many evil things!" - "You will be reincarnated as a maggot!" - "No, no, I will behave then!"
$endgroup$
– Alexander
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki: Think of it like this: If the god needs energy, which it gets from souls, then it must also require energy to make them. Otherwise, the god can simply create an infinite number of souls, kill them off in an instant and harvest them in perpetuity. Thus, there must be a cost associated with soul creation. By recycling a soul, this cost is avoided, at the expense of a slightly lesser amount of energy received on each cycle
$endgroup$
– nzaman
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@nzaman If that were the case, then why not always recycle the souls regardless of their deeds? Perhaps a god might have a reason for sending certain people back with preferential lives, but giving up the power he's invested into a soul to take someone out of the cycle does not seem in the god's best interest.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why would the deity send you back instead of just consuming your energy the first time? Your moral rightness does not seem to make you more or less of a snack the way the OP worded the question, nor does being consumed by your god necessarily sound like a reward.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki that's assuming the god can put a permanent end to someone's existence. Which can be good, or can be bad as a deterrent, the argument here is rather open. "I'm going do die soon, so I don't care and will do many evil things!" - "You will be reincarnated as a maggot!" - "No, no, I will behave then!"
$endgroup$
– Alexander
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki: Think of it like this: If the god needs energy, which it gets from souls, then it must also require energy to make them. Otherwise, the god can simply create an infinite number of souls, kill them off in an instant and harvest them in perpetuity. Thus, there must be a cost associated with soul creation. By recycling a soul, this cost is avoided, at the expense of a slightly lesser amount of energy received on each cycle
$endgroup$
– nzaman
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@nzaman If that were the case, then why not always recycle the souls regardless of their deeds? Perhaps a god might have a reason for sending certain people back with preferential lives, but giving up the power he's invested into a soul to take someone out of the cycle does not seem in the god's best interest.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why would the deity send you back instead of just consuming your energy the first time? Your moral rightness does not seem to make you more or less of a snack the way the OP worded the question, nor does being consumed by your god necessarily sound like a reward.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why would the deity send you back instead of just consuming your energy the first time? Your moral rightness does not seem to make you more or less of a snack the way the OP worded the question, nor does being consumed by your god necessarily sound like a reward.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki that's assuming the god can put a permanent end to someone's existence. Which can be good, or can be bad as a deterrent, the argument here is rather open. "I'm going do die soon, so I don't care and will do many evil things!" - "You will be reincarnated as a maggot!" - "No, no, I will behave then!"
$endgroup$
– Alexander
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki that's assuming the god can put a permanent end to someone's existence. Which can be good, or can be bad as a deterrent, the argument here is rather open. "I'm going do die soon, so I don't care and will do many evil things!" - "You will be reincarnated as a maggot!" - "No, no, I will behave then!"
$endgroup$
– Alexander
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki: Think of it like this: If the god needs energy, which it gets from souls, then it must also require energy to make them. Otherwise, the god can simply create an infinite number of souls, kill them off in an instant and harvest them in perpetuity. Thus, there must be a cost associated with soul creation. By recycling a soul, this cost is avoided, at the expense of a slightly lesser amount of energy received on each cycle
$endgroup$
– nzaman
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki: Think of it like this: If the god needs energy, which it gets from souls, then it must also require energy to make them. Otherwise, the god can simply create an infinite number of souls, kill them off in an instant and harvest them in perpetuity. Thus, there must be a cost associated with soul creation. By recycling a soul, this cost is avoided, at the expense of a slightly lesser amount of energy received on each cycle
$endgroup$
– nzaman
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@nzaman If that were the case, then why not always recycle the souls regardless of their deeds? Perhaps a god might have a reason for sending certain people back with preferential lives, but giving up the power he's invested into a soul to take someone out of the cycle does not seem in the god's best interest.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@nzaman If that were the case, then why not always recycle the souls regardless of their deeds? Perhaps a god might have a reason for sending certain people back with preferential lives, but giving up the power he's invested into a soul to take someone out of the cycle does not seem in the god's best interest.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Mormonism, they have different levels of heaven. A lower level doesn't necessarily mean hell, just not as prestigious as the highest level. Similarly in Norse Mythology, some people go to Valhalla to be waiters/waitresses for eternity. Obviously someone would rather be served then the server, but by no means is the Valhalla Server's life hell.
A solution of combining these thoughts with yours, might lay in the level of fuel each follower provides the God; followers would make themselves the best they can be to provide the best fuel for God, allowing them selves a sense of purity on earth and accomplishment in death.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
While many religions have "Not Hell" punishments, the question is saying there is no difference at all what happens when you die. You just become part of your god's power; so, Mormonism and Norse solutions to a Hell-less afterlife don't seem to answer the question.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki I edited the answer to clearly connect my idea to his.
$endgroup$
– Alex
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Mormonism, they have different levels of heaven. A lower level doesn't necessarily mean hell, just not as prestigious as the highest level. Similarly in Norse Mythology, some people go to Valhalla to be waiters/waitresses for eternity. Obviously someone would rather be served then the server, but by no means is the Valhalla Server's life hell.
A solution of combining these thoughts with yours, might lay in the level of fuel each follower provides the God; followers would make themselves the best they can be to provide the best fuel for God, allowing them selves a sense of purity on earth and accomplishment in death.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
While many religions have "Not Hell" punishments, the question is saying there is no difference at all what happens when you die. You just become part of your god's power; so, Mormonism and Norse solutions to a Hell-less afterlife don't seem to answer the question.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki I edited the answer to clearly connect my idea to his.
$endgroup$
– Alex
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Mormonism, they have different levels of heaven. A lower level doesn't necessarily mean hell, just not as prestigious as the highest level. Similarly in Norse Mythology, some people go to Valhalla to be waiters/waitresses for eternity. Obviously someone would rather be served then the server, but by no means is the Valhalla Server's life hell.
A solution of combining these thoughts with yours, might lay in the level of fuel each follower provides the God; followers would make themselves the best they can be to provide the best fuel for God, allowing them selves a sense of purity on earth and accomplishment in death.
$endgroup$
In Mormonism, they have different levels of heaven. A lower level doesn't necessarily mean hell, just not as prestigious as the highest level. Similarly in Norse Mythology, some people go to Valhalla to be waiters/waitresses for eternity. Obviously someone would rather be served then the server, but by no means is the Valhalla Server's life hell.
A solution of combining these thoughts with yours, might lay in the level of fuel each follower provides the God; followers would make themselves the best they can be to provide the best fuel for God, allowing them selves a sense of purity on earth and accomplishment in death.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
AlexAlex
48715
48715
$begingroup$
While many religions have "Not Hell" punishments, the question is saying there is no difference at all what happens when you die. You just become part of your god's power; so, Mormonism and Norse solutions to a Hell-less afterlife don't seem to answer the question.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki I edited the answer to clearly connect my idea to his.
$endgroup$
– Alex
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
While many religions have "Not Hell" punishments, the question is saying there is no difference at all what happens when you die. You just become part of your god's power; so, Mormonism and Norse solutions to a Hell-less afterlife don't seem to answer the question.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki I edited the answer to clearly connect my idea to his.
$endgroup$
– Alex
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
While many religions have "Not Hell" punishments, the question is saying there is no difference at all what happens when you die. You just become part of your god's power; so, Mormonism and Norse solutions to a Hell-less afterlife don't seem to answer the question.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
While many religions have "Not Hell" punishments, the question is saying there is no difference at all what happens when you die. You just become part of your god's power; so, Mormonism and Norse solutions to a Hell-less afterlife don't seem to answer the question.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki I edited the answer to clearly connect my idea to his.
$endgroup$
– Alex
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki I edited the answer to clearly connect my idea to his.
$endgroup$
– Alex
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
The same way you discourage your children from doing evil: a combination of
- Moral teachings/parables,
- examples of the temporal and spiritual rewards that one receives for Good Behavior,
- examples of the temporal punishments one receives for Bad Behavior, and, finally
- temporal punishments for Bad Behavior.
Whether those temporal punishments are enacted by the religious authorities, the secular authorities or God Himself is up to you.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
The same way you discourage your children from doing evil: a combination of
- Moral teachings/parables,
- examples of the temporal and spiritual rewards that one receives for Good Behavior,
- examples of the temporal punishments one receives for Bad Behavior, and, finally
- temporal punishments for Bad Behavior.
Whether those temporal punishments are enacted by the religious authorities, the secular authorities or God Himself is up to you.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
The same way you discourage your children from doing evil: a combination of
- Moral teachings/parables,
- examples of the temporal and spiritual rewards that one receives for Good Behavior,
- examples of the temporal punishments one receives for Bad Behavior, and, finally
- temporal punishments for Bad Behavior.
Whether those temporal punishments are enacted by the religious authorities, the secular authorities or God Himself is up to you.
$endgroup$
How can religions without a hell discourage evil-doing?
The same way you discourage your children from doing evil: a combination of
- Moral teachings/parables,
- examples of the temporal and spiritual rewards that one receives for Good Behavior,
- examples of the temporal punishments one receives for Bad Behavior, and, finally
- temporal punishments for Bad Behavior.
Whether those temporal punishments are enacted by the religious authorities, the secular authorities or God Himself is up to you.
answered 1 hour ago
RonJohnRonJohn
15.1k13270
15.1k13270
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honor and Shame
Well, evil can be discouraged in several ways without necessitating a negative afterlife, though it is expedient to have one. However, it is not necessary, as evidenced by the ancient Semitic religions which had no real conception of the afterlife beyond a shadowy rest. For instance, most ancient Near Eastern cultures were very strict honor and shame cultures; societally negative actions, which can generally be called evil, were dishonorable, and led to ostracism in the community.
People could be driven to good by what is essentially divinely sanctified peer-pressure; the natural human instinct toward social acceptance, and the desire to be seen as a valued and worthwhile member of the community can encourage altruistic behavior.
The honor of the religion and the honor of the God could be linked via the religion's holy texts to the behavior of its adherents (and even without the explicit connection, outsiders will judge the deity's honor by the behavior of its devotees). This would lead to the genuine adherents wanting to demonstrate honorable behavior.
Obviously, and honor and shame system would not "keep" everyone "good," as there are always those who have no honor, and thus no shame. However, the wider religious community should be able to defend the honor of their God from these rogue elements.
I have found that writing practical examples of honor and shame cultures is difficult, because, as a U.S. citizen, the general culture is very different from any extant or previously existent honor/shame cultures; however, I don't doubt their strength. For instance, in modern Japan, families will distance themselves from deviant family members to protect the honor of the family.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honor and Shame
Well, evil can be discouraged in several ways without necessitating a negative afterlife, though it is expedient to have one. However, it is not necessary, as evidenced by the ancient Semitic religions which had no real conception of the afterlife beyond a shadowy rest. For instance, most ancient Near Eastern cultures were very strict honor and shame cultures; societally negative actions, which can generally be called evil, were dishonorable, and led to ostracism in the community.
People could be driven to good by what is essentially divinely sanctified peer-pressure; the natural human instinct toward social acceptance, and the desire to be seen as a valued and worthwhile member of the community can encourage altruistic behavior.
The honor of the religion and the honor of the God could be linked via the religion's holy texts to the behavior of its adherents (and even without the explicit connection, outsiders will judge the deity's honor by the behavior of its devotees). This would lead to the genuine adherents wanting to demonstrate honorable behavior.
Obviously, and honor and shame system would not "keep" everyone "good," as there are always those who have no honor, and thus no shame. However, the wider religious community should be able to defend the honor of their God from these rogue elements.
I have found that writing practical examples of honor and shame cultures is difficult, because, as a U.S. citizen, the general culture is very different from any extant or previously existent honor/shame cultures; however, I don't doubt their strength. For instance, in modern Japan, families will distance themselves from deviant family members to protect the honor of the family.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honor and Shame
Well, evil can be discouraged in several ways without necessitating a negative afterlife, though it is expedient to have one. However, it is not necessary, as evidenced by the ancient Semitic religions which had no real conception of the afterlife beyond a shadowy rest. For instance, most ancient Near Eastern cultures were very strict honor and shame cultures; societally negative actions, which can generally be called evil, were dishonorable, and led to ostracism in the community.
People could be driven to good by what is essentially divinely sanctified peer-pressure; the natural human instinct toward social acceptance, and the desire to be seen as a valued and worthwhile member of the community can encourage altruistic behavior.
The honor of the religion and the honor of the God could be linked via the religion's holy texts to the behavior of its adherents (and even without the explicit connection, outsiders will judge the deity's honor by the behavior of its devotees). This would lead to the genuine adherents wanting to demonstrate honorable behavior.
Obviously, and honor and shame system would not "keep" everyone "good," as there are always those who have no honor, and thus no shame. However, the wider religious community should be able to defend the honor of their God from these rogue elements.
I have found that writing practical examples of honor and shame cultures is difficult, because, as a U.S. citizen, the general culture is very different from any extant or previously existent honor/shame cultures; however, I don't doubt their strength. For instance, in modern Japan, families will distance themselves from deviant family members to protect the honor of the family.
$endgroup$
Honor and Shame
Well, evil can be discouraged in several ways without necessitating a negative afterlife, though it is expedient to have one. However, it is not necessary, as evidenced by the ancient Semitic religions which had no real conception of the afterlife beyond a shadowy rest. For instance, most ancient Near Eastern cultures were very strict honor and shame cultures; societally negative actions, which can generally be called evil, were dishonorable, and led to ostracism in the community.
People could be driven to good by what is essentially divinely sanctified peer-pressure; the natural human instinct toward social acceptance, and the desire to be seen as a valued and worthwhile member of the community can encourage altruistic behavior.
The honor of the religion and the honor of the God could be linked via the religion's holy texts to the behavior of its adherents (and even without the explicit connection, outsiders will judge the deity's honor by the behavior of its devotees). This would lead to the genuine adherents wanting to demonstrate honorable behavior.
Obviously, and honor and shame system would not "keep" everyone "good," as there are always those who have no honor, and thus no shame. However, the wider religious community should be able to defend the honor of their God from these rogue elements.
I have found that writing practical examples of honor and shame cultures is difficult, because, as a U.S. citizen, the general culture is very different from any extant or previously existent honor/shame cultures; however, I don't doubt their strength. For instance, in modern Japan, families will distance themselves from deviant family members to protect the honor of the family.
answered 24 mins ago
UshumgalluUshumgallu
19912
19912
add a comment |
add a comment |
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5
$begingroup$
You chould check some religions like the Yorubá ones, native american ones, and Spiritism. Some branches of Buddhism don't believe in hell. Atheists don't believe in hell, but they are among the most vocal people I know when it comes to discouraging evil doing. And then there are Satanists, who are about the only people in the US defending a lot of people against some forms of evil doing, and they don't believe in hell either.
$endgroup$
– Renan
13 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
You do understand that according to many modern Christian theologians nobody actually goes to Hell, because in the end God is all-forgiving? And anyway, it is plain as day that the belief in hell did not do all that much to discourage evil doing...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
How do atheists avoid evil-doing, if they don't believe in hell?
$endgroup$
– VLAZ
12 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@DonQualm is it really about world building or really basic ethics? And it's something that's been very often discussed in our real world, too where there are those who don't "have a hell" and yet aren't massive sinners. Conversely, plenty of religious people have not been discouraged at all by the concept of eternal damnation. There is a whole topic which we can explore where the belief in hell has caused more evil than prevented at various points in the real history of our real world.
$endgroup$
– VLAZ
12 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
The same way(s) many religions already do. Many religions aim at discourage evil-doing without the concept of Hell. This is a question that can only be asked by someone with a fragile understanding of religion.
$endgroup$
– a4android
11 hours ago