Where is the logic in castrating fighters?Where did Magister Illyrio Mopatis get the dragon eggs from?Why was the wall raised where it stands?Where are the other Baelishes, if any?Do fighters in the Game Of Thrones books not wear helmets?Where did Bronn shoot the arrow from?Where was the kingsguard during the sack of King's Landing?Where does Joffrey Baratheon end up?Where is Howland Reed?Where is Valyria located in the world of Planetos?Where was Gendry born?

Count Even Digits In Number

How to know if a folder is a symbolic link?

Why didn't Thanos use the Time Stone to stop the Avengers' plan?

Why do most published works in medical imaging try to reduce false positives?

C++ forcing function parameter evalution order

How to respond to an upset student?

Should breaking down something like a door be adjudicated as an attempt to beat its AC and HP, or as an ability check against a set DC?

Is there an online tool which supports shared writing?

How to patch glass cuts in a bicycle tire?

Who will lead the country until there is a new Tory leader?

Python program to take in two strings and print the larger string

Employer asking for online access to bank account - Is this a scam?

Apache redirect to https:/www only partially working

What are the mechanical differences between the uncommon Medallion of Thoughts and the rare Potion of Mind Reading?

Popcorn is the only acceptable snack to consume while watching a movie

How to Pin Point Large File eating space in Fedora 18

Where is the logic in castrating fighters?

How did these characters "suit up" so quickly?

I unknowingly submitted plagarised work

The usage of "run a mile" in a sentence

Where's this lookout in Nova Scotia?

Caught student / friend cheating on the final exam that I proctored

A steel cutting sword?

Installed Tankless Water Heater - Internet loss when active



Where is the logic in castrating fighters?


Where did Magister Illyrio Mopatis get the dragon eggs from?Why was the wall raised where it stands?Where are the other Baelishes, if any?Do fighters in the Game Of Thrones books not wear helmets?Where did Bronn shoot the arrow from?Where was the kingsguard during the sack of King's Landing?Where does Joffrey Baratheon end up?Where is Howland Reed?Where is Valyria located in the world of Planetos?Where was Gendry born?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








11















This came up on another question, where in A Song of Ice and Fire (the books Game of Thrones is based on), the Unsullied have all of their genitalia removed, not just the penis.




"In Yunkai and Meereen, eunuchs are often made by removing a boy's testicles, but leaving the penis. Such a creature is infertile, yet often still capable of erection. Only trouble can come of this. We remove the penis as well, leaving nothing. The Unsullied are the purest creatures on the earth." He gave Dany and Arstan another of his broad white smiles. "I have heard that in the Sunset Kingdoms men take solemn vows to keep chaste and father no children, but live only for their duty. Is it not so?"



-- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II




Removal of the penis makes sense in such a context, both to force obedience and to degrade the soldiers, but if you castrate a man then he loses most/all(?) of his ability to produce testosterone. Testosterone, being desirable for a soldier that relies on strength and fighting prowess, would be foolish to get rid of.



So for a (supposedly) elite army, why would it make sense to do so?










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    Doesn't the Good Master answer your question in the quote you included? The logic is quite clearly spelled out. Or are you asking whether we agree with it?

    – Andres F.
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    @AndresF. The quote goes from a starting position of castrating but leaving the penis, and concludes it's better to remove it as well. It doesn't cover the situation where you just remove the penis, since that achieves aims such as infertility while preserving testosterone production.

    – adickinson
    8 hours ago











  • You're right, I misread your question.

    – Andres F.
    6 hours ago











  • Rulers in many cultures have used eunuchs in personal bodyguards, and especially as harem guards, so there have historically been military units made up of eunuchs.

    – Davislor
    30 mins ago


















11















This came up on another question, where in A Song of Ice and Fire (the books Game of Thrones is based on), the Unsullied have all of their genitalia removed, not just the penis.




"In Yunkai and Meereen, eunuchs are often made by removing a boy's testicles, but leaving the penis. Such a creature is infertile, yet often still capable of erection. Only trouble can come of this. We remove the penis as well, leaving nothing. The Unsullied are the purest creatures on the earth." He gave Dany and Arstan another of his broad white smiles. "I have heard that in the Sunset Kingdoms men take solemn vows to keep chaste and father no children, but live only for their duty. Is it not so?"



-- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II




Removal of the penis makes sense in such a context, both to force obedience and to degrade the soldiers, but if you castrate a man then he loses most/all(?) of his ability to produce testosterone. Testosterone, being desirable for a soldier that relies on strength and fighting prowess, would be foolish to get rid of.



So for a (supposedly) elite army, why would it make sense to do so?










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    Doesn't the Good Master answer your question in the quote you included? The logic is quite clearly spelled out. Or are you asking whether we agree with it?

    – Andres F.
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    @AndresF. The quote goes from a starting position of castrating but leaving the penis, and concludes it's better to remove it as well. It doesn't cover the situation where you just remove the penis, since that achieves aims such as infertility while preserving testosterone production.

    – adickinson
    8 hours ago











  • You're right, I misread your question.

    – Andres F.
    6 hours ago











  • Rulers in many cultures have used eunuchs in personal bodyguards, and especially as harem guards, so there have historically been military units made up of eunuchs.

    – Davislor
    30 mins ago














11












11








11








This came up on another question, where in A Song of Ice and Fire (the books Game of Thrones is based on), the Unsullied have all of their genitalia removed, not just the penis.




"In Yunkai and Meereen, eunuchs are often made by removing a boy's testicles, but leaving the penis. Such a creature is infertile, yet often still capable of erection. Only trouble can come of this. We remove the penis as well, leaving nothing. The Unsullied are the purest creatures on the earth." He gave Dany and Arstan another of his broad white smiles. "I have heard that in the Sunset Kingdoms men take solemn vows to keep chaste and father no children, but live only for their duty. Is it not so?"



-- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II




Removal of the penis makes sense in such a context, both to force obedience and to degrade the soldiers, but if you castrate a man then he loses most/all(?) of his ability to produce testosterone. Testosterone, being desirable for a soldier that relies on strength and fighting prowess, would be foolish to get rid of.



So for a (supposedly) elite army, why would it make sense to do so?










share|improve this question
















This came up on another question, where in A Song of Ice and Fire (the books Game of Thrones is based on), the Unsullied have all of their genitalia removed, not just the penis.




"In Yunkai and Meereen, eunuchs are often made by removing a boy's testicles, but leaving the penis. Such a creature is infertile, yet often still capable of erection. Only trouble can come of this. We remove the penis as well, leaving nothing. The Unsullied are the purest creatures on the earth." He gave Dany and Arstan another of his broad white smiles. "I have heard that in the Sunset Kingdoms men take solemn vows to keep chaste and father no children, but live only for their duty. Is it not so?"



-- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II




Removal of the penis makes sense in such a context, both to force obedience and to degrade the soldiers, but if you castrate a man then he loses most/all(?) of his ability to produce testosterone. Testosterone, being desirable for a soldier that relies on strength and fighting prowess, would be foolish to get rid of.



So for a (supposedly) elite army, why would it make sense to do so?







game-of-thrones a-song-of-ice-and-fire






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 8 hours ago









Jenayah

25.2k8117155




25.2k8117155










asked 8 hours ago









adickinsonadickinson

35318




35318







  • 1





    Doesn't the Good Master answer your question in the quote you included? The logic is quite clearly spelled out. Or are you asking whether we agree with it?

    – Andres F.
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    @AndresF. The quote goes from a starting position of castrating but leaving the penis, and concludes it's better to remove it as well. It doesn't cover the situation where you just remove the penis, since that achieves aims such as infertility while preserving testosterone production.

    – adickinson
    8 hours ago











  • You're right, I misread your question.

    – Andres F.
    6 hours ago











  • Rulers in many cultures have used eunuchs in personal bodyguards, and especially as harem guards, so there have historically been military units made up of eunuchs.

    – Davislor
    30 mins ago













  • 1





    Doesn't the Good Master answer your question in the quote you included? The logic is quite clearly spelled out. Or are you asking whether we agree with it?

    – Andres F.
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    @AndresF. The quote goes from a starting position of castrating but leaving the penis, and concludes it's better to remove it as well. It doesn't cover the situation where you just remove the penis, since that achieves aims such as infertility while preserving testosterone production.

    – adickinson
    8 hours ago











  • You're right, I misread your question.

    – Andres F.
    6 hours ago











  • Rulers in many cultures have used eunuchs in personal bodyguards, and especially as harem guards, so there have historically been military units made up of eunuchs.

    – Davislor
    30 mins ago








1




1





Doesn't the Good Master answer your question in the quote you included? The logic is quite clearly spelled out. Or are you asking whether we agree with it?

– Andres F.
8 hours ago





Doesn't the Good Master answer your question in the quote you included? The logic is quite clearly spelled out. Or are you asking whether we agree with it?

– Andres F.
8 hours ago




1




1





@AndresF. The quote goes from a starting position of castrating but leaving the penis, and concludes it's better to remove it as well. It doesn't cover the situation where you just remove the penis, since that achieves aims such as infertility while preserving testosterone production.

– adickinson
8 hours ago





@AndresF. The quote goes from a starting position of castrating but leaving the penis, and concludes it's better to remove it as well. It doesn't cover the situation where you just remove the penis, since that achieves aims such as infertility while preserving testosterone production.

– adickinson
8 hours ago













You're right, I misread your question.

– Andres F.
6 hours ago





You're right, I misread your question.

– Andres F.
6 hours ago













Rulers in many cultures have used eunuchs in personal bodyguards, and especially as harem guards, so there have historically been military units made up of eunuchs.

– Davislor
30 mins ago






Rulers in many cultures have used eunuchs in personal bodyguards, and especially as harem guards, so there have historically been military units made up of eunuchs.

– Davislor
30 mins ago











4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















18














The unsullied are an analog of the Roman Legion.



The most important quality in a legionnaire wasn't his testosterone fueled aggression, it was discipline.



In fact - when holding a shield wall - the last thing you wanted was a hothead beside you breaking formation and bringing the attack to the enemy. You held, the guys behind you pistoned their spears forwards between your shields, your did up close work with your Gladius (short sword).



Fully castrating the unsullied removed a major distraction, their upbringing/training forged them into perfect Legionnaires. They ignore wounds, hold the shield wall, and slowly and carefully wear down their attackers. They were made almost into automata, no humanity, no distractions. They would hold or advance as commanded, regardless of what was thrown at them.



Their lack of testosterone worked in their masters favor.






share|improve this answer




















  • 2





    Although I entirely agree with this answer about the superiority of fighting skills and teamwork, I'm extremely skeptical about both the validity of the reasoning behind the Unsullied and the likelihood that any fighting force would actually employ such methods. Castration wasn't necessary for teamwork, as that very Roman Legion shows. And sex is far from the only thing distracting a fighter, yet the masters of the Unsullied insist that they can train them to avoid motivations such as wealth or power or friendship.

    – Adamant
    8 hours ago







  • 3





    @Adamant: In formulating arguments for why an ancient order of slavers would mutilate boys in specific ways to make them a better army, I find I have sickened myself of the conversation (this is not your fault). I'm done mate.

    – Binary Worrier
    7 hours ago











  • @MishaR: Thanks :)

    – Binary Worrier
    6 hours ago











  • @Adamant surely this isn't the first time you've seen people with a strongly held belief with no basis in science?

    – Paul
    1 hour ago


















15














The existing answers already cover the question, I will just add a quote, from the same chapter as yours, were Daenerys understood that all soldiers are eunuch, and ask the same question to Kraznys mo Nakloz




Some of the soldiers were tall and some were short. They ranged in age from fourteen to twenty, she judged. Their cheeks were smooth, and their eyes all the same, be they black or brown or blue or grey or amber. They are like one man, Dany thought, until she remembered that they were no men at all. The Unsullied were eunuchs, every one of them. "Why do you cut them?" she asked Kraznys through the slave girl. "Whole men are stronger than eunuchs, I have always heard."



"A eunuch who is cut young will never have the brute strength of one of your Westerosi knights, this is true," said Kraznys mo Nakloz when the question was put to him. "A bull is strong as well, but bulls die every day in the fighting pits. A girl of nine killed one not three days past in Jothiel's Pit. The Unsullied have something better than strength, tell her. They have discipline. We fight in the fashion of the Old Empire, yes. They are the lockstep legions of Old Ghis come again, absolutely obedient, absolutely loyal, and utterly without fear."
-- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II







share|improve this answer

























  • I wonder how trustworthy the castrated men are afterwards. Some years ago, due to tumours, my cat had to be castrated. I took it to the vets and collected it the next day. It was very angry and spitting at me on the way home and spent the next six years scratching at me and hissing and generally trying to kill me without mercy.... clearly it blamed me for it's new lifestyle

    – DannyMcG
    4 hours ago











  • @DannyMcG the imperial Chinese seemed to believe castration made some courtiers more trustworthy. History shows they were treacherous.

    – Andres F.
    47 mins ago


















10














Soldiers do not need to be strong to fight.
Soldiers do not need to be skilled at fighting to fight well.
All a soldier needs to be able to do is obey orders without question or hesitation. And most importantly to never break formation or retreat from the fight.



Battles--especially during the middle ages--are fought until one side loses the will to fight. War is not about killing your enemy it is about convincing your enemy to give up and stop resisting. They are about breaking your enemies will to fight, so that they become subservient to you.



The unsullied are an elite army because they are disciplined and do not fear death or pain. They will continue on fighting when other soldiers would have run in terror for their lives.






share|improve this answer























  • Armour and weapons are heavy though. Wouldn't extra muscle help to carry that weight?

    – adickinson
    8 hours ago






  • 6





    @adickinson: You're assuming a eunuch won't build muscle because the don't produce testerone. They will build muscle, just not as quickly as a man with working testes. The unsullied train and work out, they have plenty of muscle.

    – Binary Worrier
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    @adickinson Someone with more testosterone and the same amount of training is more likely to have the muscle to carry those. But, in a face-off between two armies, resolve and aggression are the absolute first priority. This has to do with many factors - battle fatigue, the reluctance of solders' to kill other people, the front rows' reluctance to attack (and likely die), etc. Discipline is also by far the most important thing during actual fighting, since it prevents fear and shock from interfering with good judgment. As for heavy stuff, well, it's good, but light stuff can be good too.

    – Misha R
    6 hours ago






  • 2





    @adickinson Note, though, that the Unsullied are not near as heavily armored as Westerosi knights.

    – Geobits
    4 hours ago











  • Although not related to the situation under discussion, there are combat roles where physical strength is not as important as it is for infantry. Archers, for instance, need far less strength, and having less muscle mass is a bonus for mounted archers.

    – EvilSnack
    41 mins ago


















0














It is worth mentioning that the Unsullied were never really meant to operate as a whole elite army.



They were known as the best infantry in the world, but mostly sold as slaves perhaps in batches of 10 to 100. Not necessarily just to regents intending to use them in war, but to also to merchants and similar, who wished to use them in times of peace.



Clients who perhaps wished to avoid having soldiers constantly in search for either money, booze or women. And so their discipline outside combat might be just as important as their discipline in combat. Idle, undisciplined soldiers means trouble.






share|improve this answer























    Your Answer








    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "186"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f213235%2fwhere-is-the-logic-in-castrating-fighters%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    18














    The unsullied are an analog of the Roman Legion.



    The most important quality in a legionnaire wasn't his testosterone fueled aggression, it was discipline.



    In fact - when holding a shield wall - the last thing you wanted was a hothead beside you breaking formation and bringing the attack to the enemy. You held, the guys behind you pistoned their spears forwards between your shields, your did up close work with your Gladius (short sword).



    Fully castrating the unsullied removed a major distraction, their upbringing/training forged them into perfect Legionnaires. They ignore wounds, hold the shield wall, and slowly and carefully wear down their attackers. They were made almost into automata, no humanity, no distractions. They would hold or advance as commanded, regardless of what was thrown at them.



    Their lack of testosterone worked in their masters favor.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 2





      Although I entirely agree with this answer about the superiority of fighting skills and teamwork, I'm extremely skeptical about both the validity of the reasoning behind the Unsullied and the likelihood that any fighting force would actually employ such methods. Castration wasn't necessary for teamwork, as that very Roman Legion shows. And sex is far from the only thing distracting a fighter, yet the masters of the Unsullied insist that they can train them to avoid motivations such as wealth or power or friendship.

      – Adamant
      8 hours ago







    • 3





      @Adamant: In formulating arguments for why an ancient order of slavers would mutilate boys in specific ways to make them a better army, I find I have sickened myself of the conversation (this is not your fault). I'm done mate.

      – Binary Worrier
      7 hours ago











    • @MishaR: Thanks :)

      – Binary Worrier
      6 hours ago











    • @Adamant surely this isn't the first time you've seen people with a strongly held belief with no basis in science?

      – Paul
      1 hour ago















    18














    The unsullied are an analog of the Roman Legion.



    The most important quality in a legionnaire wasn't his testosterone fueled aggression, it was discipline.



    In fact - when holding a shield wall - the last thing you wanted was a hothead beside you breaking formation and bringing the attack to the enemy. You held, the guys behind you pistoned their spears forwards between your shields, your did up close work with your Gladius (short sword).



    Fully castrating the unsullied removed a major distraction, their upbringing/training forged them into perfect Legionnaires. They ignore wounds, hold the shield wall, and slowly and carefully wear down their attackers. They were made almost into automata, no humanity, no distractions. They would hold or advance as commanded, regardless of what was thrown at them.



    Their lack of testosterone worked in their masters favor.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 2





      Although I entirely agree with this answer about the superiority of fighting skills and teamwork, I'm extremely skeptical about both the validity of the reasoning behind the Unsullied and the likelihood that any fighting force would actually employ such methods. Castration wasn't necessary for teamwork, as that very Roman Legion shows. And sex is far from the only thing distracting a fighter, yet the masters of the Unsullied insist that they can train them to avoid motivations such as wealth or power or friendship.

      – Adamant
      8 hours ago







    • 3





      @Adamant: In formulating arguments for why an ancient order of slavers would mutilate boys in specific ways to make them a better army, I find I have sickened myself of the conversation (this is not your fault). I'm done mate.

      – Binary Worrier
      7 hours ago











    • @MishaR: Thanks :)

      – Binary Worrier
      6 hours ago











    • @Adamant surely this isn't the first time you've seen people with a strongly held belief with no basis in science?

      – Paul
      1 hour ago













    18












    18








    18







    The unsullied are an analog of the Roman Legion.



    The most important quality in a legionnaire wasn't his testosterone fueled aggression, it was discipline.



    In fact - when holding a shield wall - the last thing you wanted was a hothead beside you breaking formation and bringing the attack to the enemy. You held, the guys behind you pistoned their spears forwards between your shields, your did up close work with your Gladius (short sword).



    Fully castrating the unsullied removed a major distraction, their upbringing/training forged them into perfect Legionnaires. They ignore wounds, hold the shield wall, and slowly and carefully wear down their attackers. They were made almost into automata, no humanity, no distractions. They would hold or advance as commanded, regardless of what was thrown at them.



    Their lack of testosterone worked in their masters favor.






    share|improve this answer















    The unsullied are an analog of the Roman Legion.



    The most important quality in a legionnaire wasn't his testosterone fueled aggression, it was discipline.



    In fact - when holding a shield wall - the last thing you wanted was a hothead beside you breaking formation and bringing the attack to the enemy. You held, the guys behind you pistoned their spears forwards between your shields, your did up close work with your Gladius (short sword).



    Fully castrating the unsullied removed a major distraction, their upbringing/training forged them into perfect Legionnaires. They ignore wounds, hold the shield wall, and slowly and carefully wear down their attackers. They were made almost into automata, no humanity, no distractions. They would hold or advance as commanded, regardless of what was thrown at them.



    Their lack of testosterone worked in their masters favor.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 6 hours ago

























    answered 8 hours ago









    Binary WorrierBinary Worrier

    8,78943955




    8,78943955







    • 2





      Although I entirely agree with this answer about the superiority of fighting skills and teamwork, I'm extremely skeptical about both the validity of the reasoning behind the Unsullied and the likelihood that any fighting force would actually employ such methods. Castration wasn't necessary for teamwork, as that very Roman Legion shows. And sex is far from the only thing distracting a fighter, yet the masters of the Unsullied insist that they can train them to avoid motivations such as wealth or power or friendship.

      – Adamant
      8 hours ago







    • 3





      @Adamant: In formulating arguments for why an ancient order of slavers would mutilate boys in specific ways to make them a better army, I find I have sickened myself of the conversation (this is not your fault). I'm done mate.

      – Binary Worrier
      7 hours ago











    • @MishaR: Thanks :)

      – Binary Worrier
      6 hours ago











    • @Adamant surely this isn't the first time you've seen people with a strongly held belief with no basis in science?

      – Paul
      1 hour ago












    • 2





      Although I entirely agree with this answer about the superiority of fighting skills and teamwork, I'm extremely skeptical about both the validity of the reasoning behind the Unsullied and the likelihood that any fighting force would actually employ such methods. Castration wasn't necessary for teamwork, as that very Roman Legion shows. And sex is far from the only thing distracting a fighter, yet the masters of the Unsullied insist that they can train them to avoid motivations such as wealth or power or friendship.

      – Adamant
      8 hours ago







    • 3





      @Adamant: In formulating arguments for why an ancient order of slavers would mutilate boys in specific ways to make them a better army, I find I have sickened myself of the conversation (this is not your fault). I'm done mate.

      – Binary Worrier
      7 hours ago











    • @MishaR: Thanks :)

      – Binary Worrier
      6 hours ago











    • @Adamant surely this isn't the first time you've seen people with a strongly held belief with no basis in science?

      – Paul
      1 hour ago







    2




    2





    Although I entirely agree with this answer about the superiority of fighting skills and teamwork, I'm extremely skeptical about both the validity of the reasoning behind the Unsullied and the likelihood that any fighting force would actually employ such methods. Castration wasn't necessary for teamwork, as that very Roman Legion shows. And sex is far from the only thing distracting a fighter, yet the masters of the Unsullied insist that they can train them to avoid motivations such as wealth or power or friendship.

    – Adamant
    8 hours ago






    Although I entirely agree with this answer about the superiority of fighting skills and teamwork, I'm extremely skeptical about both the validity of the reasoning behind the Unsullied and the likelihood that any fighting force would actually employ such methods. Castration wasn't necessary for teamwork, as that very Roman Legion shows. And sex is far from the only thing distracting a fighter, yet the masters of the Unsullied insist that they can train them to avoid motivations such as wealth or power or friendship.

    – Adamant
    8 hours ago





    3




    3





    @Adamant: In formulating arguments for why an ancient order of slavers would mutilate boys in specific ways to make them a better army, I find I have sickened myself of the conversation (this is not your fault). I'm done mate.

    – Binary Worrier
    7 hours ago





    @Adamant: In formulating arguments for why an ancient order of slavers would mutilate boys in specific ways to make them a better army, I find I have sickened myself of the conversation (this is not your fault). I'm done mate.

    – Binary Worrier
    7 hours ago













    @MishaR: Thanks :)

    – Binary Worrier
    6 hours ago





    @MishaR: Thanks :)

    – Binary Worrier
    6 hours ago













    @Adamant surely this isn't the first time you've seen people with a strongly held belief with no basis in science?

    – Paul
    1 hour ago





    @Adamant surely this isn't the first time you've seen people with a strongly held belief with no basis in science?

    – Paul
    1 hour ago













    15














    The existing answers already cover the question, I will just add a quote, from the same chapter as yours, were Daenerys understood that all soldiers are eunuch, and ask the same question to Kraznys mo Nakloz




    Some of the soldiers were tall and some were short. They ranged in age from fourteen to twenty, she judged. Their cheeks were smooth, and their eyes all the same, be they black or brown or blue or grey or amber. They are like one man, Dany thought, until she remembered that they were no men at all. The Unsullied were eunuchs, every one of them. "Why do you cut them?" she asked Kraznys through the slave girl. "Whole men are stronger than eunuchs, I have always heard."



    "A eunuch who is cut young will never have the brute strength of one of your Westerosi knights, this is true," said Kraznys mo Nakloz when the question was put to him. "A bull is strong as well, but bulls die every day in the fighting pits. A girl of nine killed one not three days past in Jothiel's Pit. The Unsullied have something better than strength, tell her. They have discipline. We fight in the fashion of the Old Empire, yes. They are the lockstep legions of Old Ghis come again, absolutely obedient, absolutely loyal, and utterly without fear."
    -- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II







    share|improve this answer

























    • I wonder how trustworthy the castrated men are afterwards. Some years ago, due to tumours, my cat had to be castrated. I took it to the vets and collected it the next day. It was very angry and spitting at me on the way home and spent the next six years scratching at me and hissing and generally trying to kill me without mercy.... clearly it blamed me for it's new lifestyle

      – DannyMcG
      4 hours ago











    • @DannyMcG the imperial Chinese seemed to believe castration made some courtiers more trustworthy. History shows they were treacherous.

      – Andres F.
      47 mins ago















    15














    The existing answers already cover the question, I will just add a quote, from the same chapter as yours, were Daenerys understood that all soldiers are eunuch, and ask the same question to Kraznys mo Nakloz




    Some of the soldiers were tall and some were short. They ranged in age from fourteen to twenty, she judged. Their cheeks were smooth, and their eyes all the same, be they black or brown or blue or grey or amber. They are like one man, Dany thought, until she remembered that they were no men at all. The Unsullied were eunuchs, every one of them. "Why do you cut them?" she asked Kraznys through the slave girl. "Whole men are stronger than eunuchs, I have always heard."



    "A eunuch who is cut young will never have the brute strength of one of your Westerosi knights, this is true," said Kraznys mo Nakloz when the question was put to him. "A bull is strong as well, but bulls die every day in the fighting pits. A girl of nine killed one not three days past in Jothiel's Pit. The Unsullied have something better than strength, tell her. They have discipline. We fight in the fashion of the Old Empire, yes. They are the lockstep legions of Old Ghis come again, absolutely obedient, absolutely loyal, and utterly without fear."
    -- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II







    share|improve this answer

























    • I wonder how trustworthy the castrated men are afterwards. Some years ago, due to tumours, my cat had to be castrated. I took it to the vets and collected it the next day. It was very angry and spitting at me on the way home and spent the next six years scratching at me and hissing and generally trying to kill me without mercy.... clearly it blamed me for it's new lifestyle

      – DannyMcG
      4 hours ago











    • @DannyMcG the imperial Chinese seemed to believe castration made some courtiers more trustworthy. History shows they were treacherous.

      – Andres F.
      47 mins ago













    15












    15








    15







    The existing answers already cover the question, I will just add a quote, from the same chapter as yours, were Daenerys understood that all soldiers are eunuch, and ask the same question to Kraznys mo Nakloz




    Some of the soldiers were tall and some were short. They ranged in age from fourteen to twenty, she judged. Their cheeks were smooth, and their eyes all the same, be they black or brown or blue or grey or amber. They are like one man, Dany thought, until she remembered that they were no men at all. The Unsullied were eunuchs, every one of them. "Why do you cut them?" she asked Kraznys through the slave girl. "Whole men are stronger than eunuchs, I have always heard."



    "A eunuch who is cut young will never have the brute strength of one of your Westerosi knights, this is true," said Kraznys mo Nakloz when the question was put to him. "A bull is strong as well, but bulls die every day in the fighting pits. A girl of nine killed one not three days past in Jothiel's Pit. The Unsullied have something better than strength, tell her. They have discipline. We fight in the fashion of the Old Empire, yes. They are the lockstep legions of Old Ghis come again, absolutely obedient, absolutely loyal, and utterly without fear."
    -- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II







    share|improve this answer















    The existing answers already cover the question, I will just add a quote, from the same chapter as yours, were Daenerys understood that all soldiers are eunuch, and ask the same question to Kraznys mo Nakloz




    Some of the soldiers were tall and some were short. They ranged in age from fourteen to twenty, she judged. Their cheeks were smooth, and their eyes all the same, be they black or brown or blue or grey or amber. They are like one man, Dany thought, until she remembered that they were no men at all. The Unsullied were eunuchs, every one of them. "Why do you cut them?" she asked Kraznys through the slave girl. "Whole men are stronger than eunuchs, I have always heard."



    "A eunuch who is cut young will never have the brute strength of one of your Westerosi knights, this is true," said Kraznys mo Nakloz when the question was put to him. "A bull is strong as well, but bulls die every day in the fighting pits. A girl of nine killed one not three days past in Jothiel's Pit. The Unsullied have something better than strength, tell her. They have discipline. We fight in the fashion of the Old Empire, yes. They are the lockstep legions of Old Ghis come again, absolutely obedient, absolutely loyal, and utterly without fear."
    -- A Storm of Swords, chapter Daenerys II








    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 7 hours ago

























    answered 8 hours ago









    KepotxKepotx

    6,56333270




    6,56333270












    • I wonder how trustworthy the castrated men are afterwards. Some years ago, due to tumours, my cat had to be castrated. I took it to the vets and collected it the next day. It was very angry and spitting at me on the way home and spent the next six years scratching at me and hissing and generally trying to kill me without mercy.... clearly it blamed me for it's new lifestyle

      – DannyMcG
      4 hours ago











    • @DannyMcG the imperial Chinese seemed to believe castration made some courtiers more trustworthy. History shows they were treacherous.

      – Andres F.
      47 mins ago

















    • I wonder how trustworthy the castrated men are afterwards. Some years ago, due to tumours, my cat had to be castrated. I took it to the vets and collected it the next day. It was very angry and spitting at me on the way home and spent the next six years scratching at me and hissing and generally trying to kill me without mercy.... clearly it blamed me for it's new lifestyle

      – DannyMcG
      4 hours ago











    • @DannyMcG the imperial Chinese seemed to believe castration made some courtiers more trustworthy. History shows they were treacherous.

      – Andres F.
      47 mins ago
















    I wonder how trustworthy the castrated men are afterwards. Some years ago, due to tumours, my cat had to be castrated. I took it to the vets and collected it the next day. It was very angry and spitting at me on the way home and spent the next six years scratching at me and hissing and generally trying to kill me without mercy.... clearly it blamed me for it's new lifestyle

    – DannyMcG
    4 hours ago





    I wonder how trustworthy the castrated men are afterwards. Some years ago, due to tumours, my cat had to be castrated. I took it to the vets and collected it the next day. It was very angry and spitting at me on the way home and spent the next six years scratching at me and hissing and generally trying to kill me without mercy.... clearly it blamed me for it's new lifestyle

    – DannyMcG
    4 hours ago













    @DannyMcG the imperial Chinese seemed to believe castration made some courtiers more trustworthy. History shows they were treacherous.

    – Andres F.
    47 mins ago





    @DannyMcG the imperial Chinese seemed to believe castration made some courtiers more trustworthy. History shows they were treacherous.

    – Andres F.
    47 mins ago











    10














    Soldiers do not need to be strong to fight.
    Soldiers do not need to be skilled at fighting to fight well.
    All a soldier needs to be able to do is obey orders without question or hesitation. And most importantly to never break formation or retreat from the fight.



    Battles--especially during the middle ages--are fought until one side loses the will to fight. War is not about killing your enemy it is about convincing your enemy to give up and stop resisting. They are about breaking your enemies will to fight, so that they become subservient to you.



    The unsullied are an elite army because they are disciplined and do not fear death or pain. They will continue on fighting when other soldiers would have run in terror for their lives.






    share|improve this answer























    • Armour and weapons are heavy though. Wouldn't extra muscle help to carry that weight?

      – adickinson
      8 hours ago






    • 6





      @adickinson: You're assuming a eunuch won't build muscle because the don't produce testerone. They will build muscle, just not as quickly as a man with working testes. The unsullied train and work out, they have plenty of muscle.

      – Binary Worrier
      8 hours ago






    • 1





      @adickinson Someone with more testosterone and the same amount of training is more likely to have the muscle to carry those. But, in a face-off between two armies, resolve and aggression are the absolute first priority. This has to do with many factors - battle fatigue, the reluctance of solders' to kill other people, the front rows' reluctance to attack (and likely die), etc. Discipline is also by far the most important thing during actual fighting, since it prevents fear and shock from interfering with good judgment. As for heavy stuff, well, it's good, but light stuff can be good too.

      – Misha R
      6 hours ago






    • 2





      @adickinson Note, though, that the Unsullied are not near as heavily armored as Westerosi knights.

      – Geobits
      4 hours ago











    • Although not related to the situation under discussion, there are combat roles where physical strength is not as important as it is for infantry. Archers, for instance, need far less strength, and having less muscle mass is a bonus for mounted archers.

      – EvilSnack
      41 mins ago















    10














    Soldiers do not need to be strong to fight.
    Soldiers do not need to be skilled at fighting to fight well.
    All a soldier needs to be able to do is obey orders without question or hesitation. And most importantly to never break formation or retreat from the fight.



    Battles--especially during the middle ages--are fought until one side loses the will to fight. War is not about killing your enemy it is about convincing your enemy to give up and stop resisting. They are about breaking your enemies will to fight, so that they become subservient to you.



    The unsullied are an elite army because they are disciplined and do not fear death or pain. They will continue on fighting when other soldiers would have run in terror for their lives.






    share|improve this answer























    • Armour and weapons are heavy though. Wouldn't extra muscle help to carry that weight?

      – adickinson
      8 hours ago






    • 6





      @adickinson: You're assuming a eunuch won't build muscle because the don't produce testerone. They will build muscle, just not as quickly as a man with working testes. The unsullied train and work out, they have plenty of muscle.

      – Binary Worrier
      8 hours ago






    • 1





      @adickinson Someone with more testosterone and the same amount of training is more likely to have the muscle to carry those. But, in a face-off between two armies, resolve and aggression are the absolute first priority. This has to do with many factors - battle fatigue, the reluctance of solders' to kill other people, the front rows' reluctance to attack (and likely die), etc. Discipline is also by far the most important thing during actual fighting, since it prevents fear and shock from interfering with good judgment. As for heavy stuff, well, it's good, but light stuff can be good too.

      – Misha R
      6 hours ago






    • 2





      @adickinson Note, though, that the Unsullied are not near as heavily armored as Westerosi knights.

      – Geobits
      4 hours ago











    • Although not related to the situation under discussion, there are combat roles where physical strength is not as important as it is for infantry. Archers, for instance, need far less strength, and having less muscle mass is a bonus for mounted archers.

      – EvilSnack
      41 mins ago













    10












    10








    10







    Soldiers do not need to be strong to fight.
    Soldiers do not need to be skilled at fighting to fight well.
    All a soldier needs to be able to do is obey orders without question or hesitation. And most importantly to never break formation or retreat from the fight.



    Battles--especially during the middle ages--are fought until one side loses the will to fight. War is not about killing your enemy it is about convincing your enemy to give up and stop resisting. They are about breaking your enemies will to fight, so that they become subservient to you.



    The unsullied are an elite army because they are disciplined and do not fear death or pain. They will continue on fighting when other soldiers would have run in terror for their lives.






    share|improve this answer













    Soldiers do not need to be strong to fight.
    Soldiers do not need to be skilled at fighting to fight well.
    All a soldier needs to be able to do is obey orders without question or hesitation. And most importantly to never break formation or retreat from the fight.



    Battles--especially during the middle ages--are fought until one side loses the will to fight. War is not about killing your enemy it is about convincing your enemy to give up and stop resisting. They are about breaking your enemies will to fight, so that they become subservient to you.



    The unsullied are an elite army because they are disciplined and do not fear death or pain. They will continue on fighting when other soldiers would have run in terror for their lives.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 8 hours ago









    Garret GangGarret Gang

    93849




    93849












    • Armour and weapons are heavy though. Wouldn't extra muscle help to carry that weight?

      – adickinson
      8 hours ago






    • 6





      @adickinson: You're assuming a eunuch won't build muscle because the don't produce testerone. They will build muscle, just not as quickly as a man with working testes. The unsullied train and work out, they have plenty of muscle.

      – Binary Worrier
      8 hours ago






    • 1





      @adickinson Someone with more testosterone and the same amount of training is more likely to have the muscle to carry those. But, in a face-off between two armies, resolve and aggression are the absolute first priority. This has to do with many factors - battle fatigue, the reluctance of solders' to kill other people, the front rows' reluctance to attack (and likely die), etc. Discipline is also by far the most important thing during actual fighting, since it prevents fear and shock from interfering with good judgment. As for heavy stuff, well, it's good, but light stuff can be good too.

      – Misha R
      6 hours ago






    • 2





      @adickinson Note, though, that the Unsullied are not near as heavily armored as Westerosi knights.

      – Geobits
      4 hours ago











    • Although not related to the situation under discussion, there are combat roles where physical strength is not as important as it is for infantry. Archers, for instance, need far less strength, and having less muscle mass is a bonus for mounted archers.

      – EvilSnack
      41 mins ago

















    • Armour and weapons are heavy though. Wouldn't extra muscle help to carry that weight?

      – adickinson
      8 hours ago






    • 6





      @adickinson: You're assuming a eunuch won't build muscle because the don't produce testerone. They will build muscle, just not as quickly as a man with working testes. The unsullied train and work out, they have plenty of muscle.

      – Binary Worrier
      8 hours ago






    • 1





      @adickinson Someone with more testosterone and the same amount of training is more likely to have the muscle to carry those. But, in a face-off between two armies, resolve and aggression are the absolute first priority. This has to do with many factors - battle fatigue, the reluctance of solders' to kill other people, the front rows' reluctance to attack (and likely die), etc. Discipline is also by far the most important thing during actual fighting, since it prevents fear and shock from interfering with good judgment. As for heavy stuff, well, it's good, but light stuff can be good too.

      – Misha R
      6 hours ago






    • 2





      @adickinson Note, though, that the Unsullied are not near as heavily armored as Westerosi knights.

      – Geobits
      4 hours ago











    • Although not related to the situation under discussion, there are combat roles where physical strength is not as important as it is for infantry. Archers, for instance, need far less strength, and having less muscle mass is a bonus for mounted archers.

      – EvilSnack
      41 mins ago
















    Armour and weapons are heavy though. Wouldn't extra muscle help to carry that weight?

    – adickinson
    8 hours ago





    Armour and weapons are heavy though. Wouldn't extra muscle help to carry that weight?

    – adickinson
    8 hours ago




    6




    6





    @adickinson: You're assuming a eunuch won't build muscle because the don't produce testerone. They will build muscle, just not as quickly as a man with working testes. The unsullied train and work out, they have plenty of muscle.

    – Binary Worrier
    8 hours ago





    @adickinson: You're assuming a eunuch won't build muscle because the don't produce testerone. They will build muscle, just not as quickly as a man with working testes. The unsullied train and work out, they have plenty of muscle.

    – Binary Worrier
    8 hours ago




    1




    1





    @adickinson Someone with more testosterone and the same amount of training is more likely to have the muscle to carry those. But, in a face-off between two armies, resolve and aggression are the absolute first priority. This has to do with many factors - battle fatigue, the reluctance of solders' to kill other people, the front rows' reluctance to attack (and likely die), etc. Discipline is also by far the most important thing during actual fighting, since it prevents fear and shock from interfering with good judgment. As for heavy stuff, well, it's good, but light stuff can be good too.

    – Misha R
    6 hours ago





    @adickinson Someone with more testosterone and the same amount of training is more likely to have the muscle to carry those. But, in a face-off between two armies, resolve and aggression are the absolute first priority. This has to do with many factors - battle fatigue, the reluctance of solders' to kill other people, the front rows' reluctance to attack (and likely die), etc. Discipline is also by far the most important thing during actual fighting, since it prevents fear and shock from interfering with good judgment. As for heavy stuff, well, it's good, but light stuff can be good too.

    – Misha R
    6 hours ago




    2




    2





    @adickinson Note, though, that the Unsullied are not near as heavily armored as Westerosi knights.

    – Geobits
    4 hours ago





    @adickinson Note, though, that the Unsullied are not near as heavily armored as Westerosi knights.

    – Geobits
    4 hours ago













    Although not related to the situation under discussion, there are combat roles where physical strength is not as important as it is for infantry. Archers, for instance, need far less strength, and having less muscle mass is a bonus for mounted archers.

    – EvilSnack
    41 mins ago





    Although not related to the situation under discussion, there are combat roles where physical strength is not as important as it is for infantry. Archers, for instance, need far less strength, and having less muscle mass is a bonus for mounted archers.

    – EvilSnack
    41 mins ago











    0














    It is worth mentioning that the Unsullied were never really meant to operate as a whole elite army.



    They were known as the best infantry in the world, but mostly sold as slaves perhaps in batches of 10 to 100. Not necessarily just to regents intending to use them in war, but to also to merchants and similar, who wished to use them in times of peace.



    Clients who perhaps wished to avoid having soldiers constantly in search for either money, booze or women. And so their discipline outside combat might be just as important as their discipline in combat. Idle, undisciplined soldiers means trouble.






    share|improve this answer



























      0














      It is worth mentioning that the Unsullied were never really meant to operate as a whole elite army.



      They were known as the best infantry in the world, but mostly sold as slaves perhaps in batches of 10 to 100. Not necessarily just to regents intending to use them in war, but to also to merchants and similar, who wished to use them in times of peace.



      Clients who perhaps wished to avoid having soldiers constantly in search for either money, booze or women. And so their discipline outside combat might be just as important as their discipline in combat. Idle, undisciplined soldiers means trouble.






      share|improve this answer

























        0












        0








        0







        It is worth mentioning that the Unsullied were never really meant to operate as a whole elite army.



        They were known as the best infantry in the world, but mostly sold as slaves perhaps in batches of 10 to 100. Not necessarily just to regents intending to use them in war, but to also to merchants and similar, who wished to use them in times of peace.



        Clients who perhaps wished to avoid having soldiers constantly in search for either money, booze or women. And so their discipline outside combat might be just as important as their discipline in combat. Idle, undisciplined soldiers means trouble.






        share|improve this answer













        It is worth mentioning that the Unsullied were never really meant to operate as a whole elite army.



        They were known as the best infantry in the world, but mostly sold as slaves perhaps in batches of 10 to 100. Not necessarily just to regents intending to use them in war, but to also to merchants and similar, who wished to use them in times of peace.



        Clients who perhaps wished to avoid having soldiers constantly in search for either money, booze or women. And so their discipline outside combat might be just as important as their discipline in combat. Idle, undisciplined soldiers means trouble.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 2 hours ago









        AmarthAmarth

        1,339213




        1,339213



























            draft saved

            draft discarded
















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f213235%2fwhere-is-the-logic-in-castrating-fighters%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

            Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

            François Viète Contents Biography Work and thought Bibliography See also Notes Further reading External links Navigation menup. 21Google Bookspp. 75–77Google BooksDe thou (from University of Saint Andrews)ArchivedGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle booksGoogle Bookscc-parthenay.frL'histoire universelle (fr)Universal History (en)ArchivedAdsabs.harvard.eduPagesperso-orange.frArchive.orgChikara Sasaki. Descartes' mathematical thought p.259Google BooksGoogle BooksGoogle Bookspp. 152 and onwardGoogle BooksGoogle BooksScribd.comGoogle Books1257-7979Google BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGallica.bnf.frGoogle BooksGoogle Books"François Viète"Francois Viète: Father of Modern Algebraic NotationThe Lawyer and the GamblerAbout TarporleySite de Jean-Paul GuichardL'algèbre nouvelle"About the Harmonicon"cb120511976(data)1188044800000 0001 0913 5903n82164680ola2013766880073431702w6vt1sb70287374827140948071409480