What is the basis?Why is the Buddha described as trackless?Are Habits a Kind of Attachment?Does a Buddha see the heart objectively?What are the benefits of solitary practice?What are the resources a Buddhist can use during very hard times?Are the four noble truths supposed to be applied to every type of anguish separately?Why should I give a bowl full of rice to a monk if there is no rebirth?Sila before samatha, samatha before vipassana according to AN 11.1-3?Food enchanted by spells (SN 7.8)Sila & (Non)Remorse AN 10.1The kamma of silence and/or “not acting”?

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What is the basis?


Why is the Buddha described as trackless?Are Habits a Kind of Attachment?Does a Buddha see the heart objectively?What are the benefits of solitary practice?What are the resources a Buddhist can use during very hard times?Are the four noble truths supposed to be applied to every type of anguish separately?Why should I give a bowl full of rice to a monk if there is no rebirth?Sila before samatha, samatha before vipassana according to AN 11.1-3?Food enchanted by spells (SN 7.8)Sila & (Non)Remorse AN 10.1The kamma of silence and/or “not acting”?






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margin-bottom:0;

.everyonelovesstackoverflowposition:absolute;height:1px;width:1px;opacity:0;top:0;left:0;pointer-events:none;








2

















I was reading this comment which included ...




I guess I'm perhaps not entirely aware of what the basic problem which affects me is. I feel that in many ways, I'm either backwards or not fully satisfied with my experience, and I feel Buddhism has a lot of answers; but, as you say, across the years I'm still a bit clueless. I will say, though, that recently I'm less motivated and derive less pleasure from my activities and experience.




... and I thought ...




Isn't that the observation of Buddhism -- like 'rule number one' (the four noble truths -- i.e., that "experiences" aren't "fully satisfying", and that "motivations" may be temporary (conditioned)?




From which there's then the eightfold path, starting with right view, seeing the true worth of everything ('seeing things as they really are'), isn't that right?




My question here though is based on the Kimattha Sutta (AN 11.1)




"What is the purpose of skillful virtues? What is their reward?"



"Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, Ananda, and freedom from remorse as their reward."



"And what is the purpose of freedom from remorse? What is its reward?"



etc.




So ...



  • Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned, and therefore permanent (compared with other maybe-more-mundane sensual contacts which are more transient)?

  • Metaphysically, is an absence (e.g. of remorse), possibly emptiness, reliably (seemingly paradoxically) present or existent -- conversely any presence (sense-contact) is not "reliably" present or existent?

  • Am I right in thinking that the following bits of dhamma support this theory:

    • Sīlānussati being one of the anussatis AN 6.10

    • The Dana sutta (AN 7.49 or is it AN 7.52), translated as saying that it's a "support" for the mind? That's sometimes also translated "ornament" or "requisite" -- or cittālaṅkāracittaparikkhāra: "adornment or improvement (making fit?) and equipping of thinking?"


  • How does that (i.e. its being a reliable support) fit with Buddhist doctrine about "groundless" -- or 'trackless' or 'footless' -- or is that something else entirely?

  • What about "skilful virtue" or "skilful ethics" then, kusalāni sīlāni, concentrating on those words: is the meaning of that non-obvious, is it quite specific and closely defined, or does it mean just what you might expect it to mean?


  • I notice that AN 6.10 says,




    Furthermore, a noble disciple recollects their own ethical conduct, which is unbroken, impeccable, spotless, and unmarred, liberating, praised by sensible people, not mistaken, and leading to immersion (samādhisaṃvattanikāni: "conducive to concentration").




    That reminds me a bit of problems people sometimes say they have, of being "unable to concentrate". So might you explain this quote a bit: how is "ethical conduct" and "remembering ethical conduct" is related to concentration? Is that actually informative or prescriptive, or are they (e.g. "remembering" and "concentration") merely synonyms?











share|improve this question





















  • 1





    One who dwells on perfect virtue is one having acted on right view. Done, one is capable to remember, has the means for right conncentration, right release. Defiled virtues, how ever appreciated with in certain community, doesn't lead out of it, stays this or that kind of householder, holding a stand.

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago







  • 1





    In regard of what is the basis, nissaya, for release: Admirable friend (savaka sangha) should be answered.

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago












  • "absence of remorse" is only for an Arahat no more conditioned. All other is conditioned, yet even not present at all, when talking about neither sekha nor asekha, in regard of "samma".

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago












  • Thank you. So SN 55.40 says that a Sotapanna may be content with virtue (which may lead to immersion), but they might then not make further "effort" (vāyamati) -- whereas immersion is also conditioned by a lack of "negligence" (pamatta) -- that rapture and tranquillity are also required for immersion.

    – ChrisW
    10 hours ago


















2

















I was reading this comment which included ...




I guess I'm perhaps not entirely aware of what the basic problem which affects me is. I feel that in many ways, I'm either backwards or not fully satisfied with my experience, and I feel Buddhism has a lot of answers; but, as you say, across the years I'm still a bit clueless. I will say, though, that recently I'm less motivated and derive less pleasure from my activities and experience.




... and I thought ...




Isn't that the observation of Buddhism -- like 'rule number one' (the four noble truths -- i.e., that "experiences" aren't "fully satisfying", and that "motivations" may be temporary (conditioned)?




From which there's then the eightfold path, starting with right view, seeing the true worth of everything ('seeing things as they really are'), isn't that right?




My question here though is based on the Kimattha Sutta (AN 11.1)




"What is the purpose of skillful virtues? What is their reward?"



"Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, Ananda, and freedom from remorse as their reward."



"And what is the purpose of freedom from remorse? What is its reward?"



etc.




So ...



  • Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned, and therefore permanent (compared with other maybe-more-mundane sensual contacts which are more transient)?

  • Metaphysically, is an absence (e.g. of remorse), possibly emptiness, reliably (seemingly paradoxically) present or existent -- conversely any presence (sense-contact) is not "reliably" present or existent?

  • Am I right in thinking that the following bits of dhamma support this theory:

    • Sīlānussati being one of the anussatis AN 6.10

    • The Dana sutta (AN 7.49 or is it AN 7.52), translated as saying that it's a "support" for the mind? That's sometimes also translated "ornament" or "requisite" -- or cittālaṅkāracittaparikkhāra: "adornment or improvement (making fit?) and equipping of thinking?"


  • How does that (i.e. its being a reliable support) fit with Buddhist doctrine about "groundless" -- or 'trackless' or 'footless' -- or is that something else entirely?

  • What about "skilful virtue" or "skilful ethics" then, kusalāni sīlāni, concentrating on those words: is the meaning of that non-obvious, is it quite specific and closely defined, or does it mean just what you might expect it to mean?


  • I notice that AN 6.10 says,




    Furthermore, a noble disciple recollects their own ethical conduct, which is unbroken, impeccable, spotless, and unmarred, liberating, praised by sensible people, not mistaken, and leading to immersion (samādhisaṃvattanikāni: "conducive to concentration").




    That reminds me a bit of problems people sometimes say they have, of being "unable to concentrate". So might you explain this quote a bit: how is "ethical conduct" and "remembering ethical conduct" is related to concentration? Is that actually informative or prescriptive, or are they (e.g. "remembering" and "concentration") merely synonyms?











share|improve this question





















  • 1





    One who dwells on perfect virtue is one having acted on right view. Done, one is capable to remember, has the means for right conncentration, right release. Defiled virtues, how ever appreciated with in certain community, doesn't lead out of it, stays this or that kind of householder, holding a stand.

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago







  • 1





    In regard of what is the basis, nissaya, for release: Admirable friend (savaka sangha) should be answered.

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago












  • "absence of remorse" is only for an Arahat no more conditioned. All other is conditioned, yet even not present at all, when talking about neither sekha nor asekha, in regard of "samma".

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago












  • Thank you. So SN 55.40 says that a Sotapanna may be content with virtue (which may lead to immersion), but they might then not make further "effort" (vāyamati) -- whereas immersion is also conditioned by a lack of "negligence" (pamatta) -- that rapture and tranquillity are also required for immersion.

    – ChrisW
    10 hours ago














2












2








2








I was reading this comment which included ...




I guess I'm perhaps not entirely aware of what the basic problem which affects me is. I feel that in many ways, I'm either backwards or not fully satisfied with my experience, and I feel Buddhism has a lot of answers; but, as you say, across the years I'm still a bit clueless. I will say, though, that recently I'm less motivated and derive less pleasure from my activities and experience.




... and I thought ...




Isn't that the observation of Buddhism -- like 'rule number one' (the four noble truths -- i.e., that "experiences" aren't "fully satisfying", and that "motivations" may be temporary (conditioned)?




From which there's then the eightfold path, starting with right view, seeing the true worth of everything ('seeing things as they really are'), isn't that right?




My question here though is based on the Kimattha Sutta (AN 11.1)




"What is the purpose of skillful virtues? What is their reward?"



"Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, Ananda, and freedom from remorse as their reward."



"And what is the purpose of freedom from remorse? What is its reward?"



etc.




So ...



  • Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned, and therefore permanent (compared with other maybe-more-mundane sensual contacts which are more transient)?

  • Metaphysically, is an absence (e.g. of remorse), possibly emptiness, reliably (seemingly paradoxically) present or existent -- conversely any presence (sense-contact) is not "reliably" present or existent?

  • Am I right in thinking that the following bits of dhamma support this theory:

    • Sīlānussati being one of the anussatis AN 6.10

    • The Dana sutta (AN 7.49 or is it AN 7.52), translated as saying that it's a "support" for the mind? That's sometimes also translated "ornament" or "requisite" -- or cittālaṅkāracittaparikkhāra: "adornment or improvement (making fit?) and equipping of thinking?"


  • How does that (i.e. its being a reliable support) fit with Buddhist doctrine about "groundless" -- or 'trackless' or 'footless' -- or is that something else entirely?

  • What about "skilful virtue" or "skilful ethics" then, kusalāni sīlāni, concentrating on those words: is the meaning of that non-obvious, is it quite specific and closely defined, or does it mean just what you might expect it to mean?


  • I notice that AN 6.10 says,




    Furthermore, a noble disciple recollects their own ethical conduct, which is unbroken, impeccable, spotless, and unmarred, liberating, praised by sensible people, not mistaken, and leading to immersion (samādhisaṃvattanikāni: "conducive to concentration").




    That reminds me a bit of problems people sometimes say they have, of being "unable to concentrate". So might you explain this quote a bit: how is "ethical conduct" and "remembering ethical conduct" is related to concentration? Is that actually informative or prescriptive, or are they (e.g. "remembering" and "concentration") merely synonyms?











share|improve this question














I was reading this comment which included ...




I guess I'm perhaps not entirely aware of what the basic problem which affects me is. I feel that in many ways, I'm either backwards or not fully satisfied with my experience, and I feel Buddhism has a lot of answers; but, as you say, across the years I'm still a bit clueless. I will say, though, that recently I'm less motivated and derive less pleasure from my activities and experience.




... and I thought ...




Isn't that the observation of Buddhism -- like 'rule number one' (the four noble truths -- i.e., that "experiences" aren't "fully satisfying", and that "motivations" may be temporary (conditioned)?




From which there's then the eightfold path, starting with right view, seeing the true worth of everything ('seeing things as they really are'), isn't that right?




My question here though is based on the Kimattha Sutta (AN 11.1)




"What is the purpose of skillful virtues? What is their reward?"



"Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, Ananda, and freedom from remorse as their reward."



"And what is the purpose of freedom from remorse? What is its reward?"



etc.




So ...



  • Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned, and therefore permanent (compared with other maybe-more-mundane sensual contacts which are more transient)?

  • Metaphysically, is an absence (e.g. of remorse), possibly emptiness, reliably (seemingly paradoxically) present or existent -- conversely any presence (sense-contact) is not "reliably" present or existent?

  • Am I right in thinking that the following bits of dhamma support this theory:

    • Sīlānussati being one of the anussatis AN 6.10

    • The Dana sutta (AN 7.49 or is it AN 7.52), translated as saying that it's a "support" for the mind? That's sometimes also translated "ornament" or "requisite" -- or cittālaṅkāracittaparikkhāra: "adornment or improvement (making fit?) and equipping of thinking?"


  • How does that (i.e. its being a reliable support) fit with Buddhist doctrine about "groundless" -- or 'trackless' or 'footless' -- or is that something else entirely?

  • What about "skilful virtue" or "skilful ethics" then, kusalāni sīlāni, concentrating on those words: is the meaning of that non-obvious, is it quite specific and closely defined, or does it mean just what you might expect it to mean?


  • I notice that AN 6.10 says,




    Furthermore, a noble disciple recollects their own ethical conduct, which is unbroken, impeccable, spotless, and unmarred, liberating, praised by sensible people, not mistaken, and leading to immersion (samādhisaṃvattanikāni: "conducive to concentration").




    That reminds me a bit of problems people sometimes say they have, of being "unable to concentrate". So might you explain this quote a bit: how is "ethical conduct" and "remembering ethical conduct" is related to concentration? Is that actually informative or prescriptive, or are they (e.g. "remembering" and "concentration") merely synonyms?








personal-practice sila samadhi






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question



share|improve this question










asked 11 hours ago









ChrisWChrisW

32.7k4 gold badges28 silver badges94 bronze badges




32.7k4 gold badges28 silver badges94 bronze badges










  • 1





    One who dwells on perfect virtue is one having acted on right view. Done, one is capable to remember, has the means for right conncentration, right release. Defiled virtues, how ever appreciated with in certain community, doesn't lead out of it, stays this or that kind of householder, holding a stand.

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago







  • 1





    In regard of what is the basis, nissaya, for release: Admirable friend (savaka sangha) should be answered.

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago












  • "absence of remorse" is only for an Arahat no more conditioned. All other is conditioned, yet even not present at all, when talking about neither sekha nor asekha, in regard of "samma".

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago












  • Thank you. So SN 55.40 says that a Sotapanna may be content with virtue (which may lead to immersion), but they might then not make further "effort" (vāyamati) -- whereas immersion is also conditioned by a lack of "negligence" (pamatta) -- that rapture and tranquillity are also required for immersion.

    – ChrisW
    10 hours ago













  • 1





    One who dwells on perfect virtue is one having acted on right view. Done, one is capable to remember, has the means for right conncentration, right release. Defiled virtues, how ever appreciated with in certain community, doesn't lead out of it, stays this or that kind of householder, holding a stand.

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago







  • 1





    In regard of what is the basis, nissaya, for release: Admirable friend (savaka sangha) should be answered.

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago












  • "absence of remorse" is only for an Arahat no more conditioned. All other is conditioned, yet even not present at all, when talking about neither sekha nor asekha, in regard of "samma".

    – Samana Johann
    11 hours ago












  • Thank you. So SN 55.40 says that a Sotapanna may be content with virtue (which may lead to immersion), but they might then not make further "effort" (vāyamati) -- whereas immersion is also conditioned by a lack of "negligence" (pamatta) -- that rapture and tranquillity are also required for immersion.

    – ChrisW
    10 hours ago








1




1





One who dwells on perfect virtue is one having acted on right view. Done, one is capable to remember, has the means for right conncentration, right release. Defiled virtues, how ever appreciated with in certain community, doesn't lead out of it, stays this or that kind of householder, holding a stand.

– Samana Johann
11 hours ago






One who dwells on perfect virtue is one having acted on right view. Done, one is capable to remember, has the means for right conncentration, right release. Defiled virtues, how ever appreciated with in certain community, doesn't lead out of it, stays this or that kind of householder, holding a stand.

– Samana Johann
11 hours ago





1




1





In regard of what is the basis, nissaya, for release: Admirable friend (savaka sangha) should be answered.

– Samana Johann
11 hours ago






In regard of what is the basis, nissaya, for release: Admirable friend (savaka sangha) should be answered.

– Samana Johann
11 hours ago














"absence of remorse" is only for an Arahat no more conditioned. All other is conditioned, yet even not present at all, when talking about neither sekha nor asekha, in regard of "samma".

– Samana Johann
11 hours ago






"absence of remorse" is only for an Arahat no more conditioned. All other is conditioned, yet even not present at all, when talking about neither sekha nor asekha, in regard of "samma".

– Samana Johann
11 hours ago














Thank you. So SN 55.40 says that a Sotapanna may be content with virtue (which may lead to immersion), but they might then not make further "effort" (vāyamati) -- whereas immersion is also conditioned by a lack of "negligence" (pamatta) -- that rapture and tranquillity are also required for immersion.

– ChrisW
10 hours ago






Thank you. So SN 55.40 says that a Sotapanna may be content with virtue (which may lead to immersion), but they might then not make further "effort" (vāyamati) -- whereas immersion is also conditioned by a lack of "negligence" (pamatta) -- that rapture and tranquillity are also required for immersion.

– ChrisW
10 hours ago











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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1


















Free from remorse is one of the initial factors from which one reaches Nibbida.



(Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



(Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



(Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



(Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



There are many starting points like virtue, faith, understanding of suffering.




And what, bhikshus, is the necessary condition for faith?



It should be said: suffering (dukkha).
Suffering, bhikshus, has a necessary condition, too, I say.
It is not without a necessary condition.




Upanisa Sutta



Also,



  1. listening to the Dharma

  2. teaching the Dharma

  3. reciting the Dharma

  4. reflecting on the Dharma

  5. meditation

Followed by the rest of the steps :




joy arises in him;



because of joy, zest arises;



because of zest, the body becomes tranquil;



when the body is tranquil, he feels happiness;



a happy mind becomes concentrated.



...




Vimutt’āyatana Sutta



Also, 4 Noble Truths lead to the same process.




Then, the Buddha, when further questioned by Potthapāda on what he actually teaches, declares that
he teaches the 4 noble truths, and his reasons are:



Because



it [their declaration] is connected to the goal;



it is connected to the Dharma;



it belongs to the fundamentals of the holy life;



it leads to revulsion, nibbidāya



to dispassion [letting go], virāgāya



to cessation (of suffering), nirodhāya



to inner peace, upasamāya



to direct knowledge, abhiññāya



to awakening, sambodhāya



to nirvana. nibbānāya savattati




Potthapāda Sutta




OP: Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned




Free from remorse is conditioned by moral virtue. If one becomes less virtuous then guilt-free state disappears. Every element in the above lists are conditions except for Nirvana.




Cittâlakra citta,parikkhr’attha. In other words, the giving is part of one’s cultivation of moral virtue
as a support for mental cultivation. With abundant moral virtue, it is easier for one to cultivate the mind. Conversely,
if one finds difficulty in meditating then one should examine one’s moral conduct and rectify any unwholesome
habits or resolve negative thoughts.




Dana Maha-p,phala Sutta



In the 1st list above free from remorse give rise to joy. Items 3-7 are related to concentration. So giving supports virtue which supports lack of remorse and from there onwards, the rest follow.






share|improve this answer



































    1


















    The first thing here is to understand that the Buddha did not say, as it is almost universally translated: "All conditioned things are impermanent." He said all 'sankharas' are impermanent and sankhara does not mean 'condition'. It means san = own or self; and khara - make, and it means that which is constructed by the individual mind with the idea of creating personal experience. Nibbana is conditioned (paccaya) by following the Magga.



    I have laid out the argument for the above in greater detail at:
    http://buddhadust.net/dhammatalk/dhammatalk_forum/dhamma_talk/dt_009.conditioned.vs.own-made.htm



    So the absence of remorse is conditioned, but not being an existing thing, not having been constructed (sankharaed)-- it was the result of not-doing, is not itself subject to ending and is a small taste of Nibbana. Remorse being relative to its cause and the cause being removed the remorse is removed forever. Remorse may return but it will be based on another ill-conceived act.






    share|improve this answer









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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      active

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      active

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      active

      oldest

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      1


















      Free from remorse is one of the initial factors from which one reaches Nibbida.



      (Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



      (Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



      (Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



      (Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



      There are many starting points like virtue, faith, understanding of suffering.




      And what, bhikshus, is the necessary condition for faith?



      It should be said: suffering (dukkha).
      Suffering, bhikshus, has a necessary condition, too, I say.
      It is not without a necessary condition.




      Upanisa Sutta



      Also,



      1. listening to the Dharma

      2. teaching the Dharma

      3. reciting the Dharma

      4. reflecting on the Dharma

      5. meditation

      Followed by the rest of the steps :




      joy arises in him;



      because of joy, zest arises;



      because of zest, the body becomes tranquil;



      when the body is tranquil, he feels happiness;



      a happy mind becomes concentrated.



      ...




      Vimutt’āyatana Sutta



      Also, 4 Noble Truths lead to the same process.




      Then, the Buddha, when further questioned by Potthapāda on what he actually teaches, declares that
      he teaches the 4 noble truths, and his reasons are:



      Because



      it [their declaration] is connected to the goal;



      it is connected to the Dharma;



      it belongs to the fundamentals of the holy life;



      it leads to revulsion, nibbidāya



      to dispassion [letting go], virāgāya



      to cessation (of suffering), nirodhāya



      to inner peace, upasamāya



      to direct knowledge, abhiññāya



      to awakening, sambodhāya



      to nirvana. nibbānāya savattati




      Potthapāda Sutta




      OP: Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned




      Free from remorse is conditioned by moral virtue. If one becomes less virtuous then guilt-free state disappears. Every element in the above lists are conditions except for Nirvana.




      Cittâlakra citta,parikkhr’attha. In other words, the giving is part of one’s cultivation of moral virtue
      as a support for mental cultivation. With abundant moral virtue, it is easier for one to cultivate the mind. Conversely,
      if one finds difficulty in meditating then one should examine one’s moral conduct and rectify any unwholesome
      habits or resolve negative thoughts.




      Dana Maha-p,phala Sutta



      In the 1st list above free from remorse give rise to joy. Items 3-7 are related to concentration. So giving supports virtue which supports lack of remorse and from there onwards, the rest follow.






      share|improve this answer
































        1


















        Free from remorse is one of the initial factors from which one reaches Nibbida.



        (Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



        (Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



        (Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



        (Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



        There are many starting points like virtue, faith, understanding of suffering.




        And what, bhikshus, is the necessary condition for faith?



        It should be said: suffering (dukkha).
        Suffering, bhikshus, has a necessary condition, too, I say.
        It is not without a necessary condition.




        Upanisa Sutta



        Also,



        1. listening to the Dharma

        2. teaching the Dharma

        3. reciting the Dharma

        4. reflecting on the Dharma

        5. meditation

        Followed by the rest of the steps :




        joy arises in him;



        because of joy, zest arises;



        because of zest, the body becomes tranquil;



        when the body is tranquil, he feels happiness;



        a happy mind becomes concentrated.



        ...




        Vimutt’āyatana Sutta



        Also, 4 Noble Truths lead to the same process.




        Then, the Buddha, when further questioned by Potthapāda on what he actually teaches, declares that
        he teaches the 4 noble truths, and his reasons are:



        Because



        it [their declaration] is connected to the goal;



        it is connected to the Dharma;



        it belongs to the fundamentals of the holy life;



        it leads to revulsion, nibbidāya



        to dispassion [letting go], virāgāya



        to cessation (of suffering), nirodhāya



        to inner peace, upasamāya



        to direct knowledge, abhiññāya



        to awakening, sambodhāya



        to nirvana. nibbānāya savattati




        Potthapāda Sutta




        OP: Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned




        Free from remorse is conditioned by moral virtue. If one becomes less virtuous then guilt-free state disappears. Every element in the above lists are conditions except for Nirvana.




        Cittâlakra citta,parikkhr’attha. In other words, the giving is part of one’s cultivation of moral virtue
        as a support for mental cultivation. With abundant moral virtue, it is easier for one to cultivate the mind. Conversely,
        if one finds difficulty in meditating then one should examine one’s moral conduct and rectify any unwholesome
        habits or resolve negative thoughts.




        Dana Maha-p,phala Sutta



        In the 1st list above free from remorse give rise to joy. Items 3-7 are related to concentration. So giving supports virtue which supports lack of remorse and from there onwards, the rest follow.






        share|improve this answer






























          1














          1










          1









          Free from remorse is one of the initial factors from which one reaches Nibbida.



          (Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



          (Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



          (Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



          (Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



          There are many starting points like virtue, faith, understanding of suffering.




          And what, bhikshus, is the necessary condition for faith?



          It should be said: suffering (dukkha).
          Suffering, bhikshus, has a necessary condition, too, I say.
          It is not without a necessary condition.




          Upanisa Sutta



          Also,



          1. listening to the Dharma

          2. teaching the Dharma

          3. reciting the Dharma

          4. reflecting on the Dharma

          5. meditation

          Followed by the rest of the steps :




          joy arises in him;



          because of joy, zest arises;



          because of zest, the body becomes tranquil;



          when the body is tranquil, he feels happiness;



          a happy mind becomes concentrated.



          ...




          Vimutt’āyatana Sutta



          Also, 4 Noble Truths lead to the same process.




          Then, the Buddha, when further questioned by Potthapāda on what he actually teaches, declares that
          he teaches the 4 noble truths, and his reasons are:



          Because



          it [their declaration] is connected to the goal;



          it is connected to the Dharma;



          it belongs to the fundamentals of the holy life;



          it leads to revulsion, nibbidāya



          to dispassion [letting go], virāgāya



          to cessation (of suffering), nirodhāya



          to inner peace, upasamāya



          to direct knowledge, abhiññāya



          to awakening, sambodhāya



          to nirvana. nibbānāya savattati




          Potthapāda Sutta




          OP: Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned




          Free from remorse is conditioned by moral virtue. If one becomes less virtuous then guilt-free state disappears. Every element in the above lists are conditions except for Nirvana.




          Cittâlakra citta,parikkhr’attha. In other words, the giving is part of one’s cultivation of moral virtue
          as a support for mental cultivation. With abundant moral virtue, it is easier for one to cultivate the mind. Conversely,
          if one finds difficulty in meditating then one should examine one’s moral conduct and rectify any unwholesome
          habits or resolve negative thoughts.




          Dana Maha-p,phala Sutta



          In the 1st list above free from remorse give rise to joy. Items 3-7 are related to concentration. So giving supports virtue which supports lack of remorse and from there onwards, the rest follow.






          share|improve this answer
















          Free from remorse is one of the initial factors from which one reaches Nibbida.



          (Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



          (Ekādasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



          (Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta



          (Dasaka) Cetanā’karaṇīya Sutta Introduction by Piya Tan



          There are many starting points like virtue, faith, understanding of suffering.




          And what, bhikshus, is the necessary condition for faith?



          It should be said: suffering (dukkha).
          Suffering, bhikshus, has a necessary condition, too, I say.
          It is not without a necessary condition.




          Upanisa Sutta



          Also,



          1. listening to the Dharma

          2. teaching the Dharma

          3. reciting the Dharma

          4. reflecting on the Dharma

          5. meditation

          Followed by the rest of the steps :




          joy arises in him;



          because of joy, zest arises;



          because of zest, the body becomes tranquil;



          when the body is tranquil, he feels happiness;



          a happy mind becomes concentrated.



          ...




          Vimutt’āyatana Sutta



          Also, 4 Noble Truths lead to the same process.




          Then, the Buddha, when further questioned by Potthapāda on what he actually teaches, declares that
          he teaches the 4 noble truths, and his reasons are:



          Because



          it [their declaration] is connected to the goal;



          it is connected to the Dharma;



          it belongs to the fundamentals of the holy life;



          it leads to revulsion, nibbidāya



          to dispassion [letting go], virāgāya



          to cessation (of suffering), nirodhāya



          to inner peace, upasamāya



          to direct knowledge, abhiññāya



          to awakening, sambodhāya



          to nirvana. nibbānāya savattati




          Potthapāda Sutta




          OP: Is it fair to see the "absence of remorse" as relatively unconditioned




          Free from remorse is conditioned by moral virtue. If one becomes less virtuous then guilt-free state disappears. Every element in the above lists are conditions except for Nirvana.




          Cittâlakra citta,parikkhr’attha. In other words, the giving is part of one’s cultivation of moral virtue
          as a support for mental cultivation. With abundant moral virtue, it is easier for one to cultivate the mind. Conversely,
          if one finds difficulty in meditating then one should examine one’s moral conduct and rectify any unwholesome
          habits or resolve negative thoughts.




          Dana Maha-p,phala Sutta



          In the 1st list above free from remorse give rise to joy. Items 3-7 are related to concentration. So giving supports virtue which supports lack of remorse and from there onwards, the rest follow.







          share|improve this answer















          share|improve this answer




          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 9 hours ago

























          answered 9 hours ago









          Suminda Sirinath S. DharmasenaSuminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena

          32.2k3 gold badges19 silver badges64 bronze badges




          32.2k3 gold badges19 silver badges64 bronze badges


























              1


















              The first thing here is to understand that the Buddha did not say, as it is almost universally translated: "All conditioned things are impermanent." He said all 'sankharas' are impermanent and sankhara does not mean 'condition'. It means san = own or self; and khara - make, and it means that which is constructed by the individual mind with the idea of creating personal experience. Nibbana is conditioned (paccaya) by following the Magga.



              I have laid out the argument for the above in greater detail at:
              http://buddhadust.net/dhammatalk/dhammatalk_forum/dhamma_talk/dt_009.conditioned.vs.own-made.htm



              So the absence of remorse is conditioned, but not being an existing thing, not having been constructed (sankharaed)-- it was the result of not-doing, is not itself subject to ending and is a small taste of Nibbana. Remorse being relative to its cause and the cause being removed the remorse is removed forever. Remorse may return but it will be based on another ill-conceived act.






              share|improve this answer









              New contributor



              Mike Olds is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.

























                1


















                The first thing here is to understand that the Buddha did not say, as it is almost universally translated: "All conditioned things are impermanent." He said all 'sankharas' are impermanent and sankhara does not mean 'condition'. It means san = own or self; and khara - make, and it means that which is constructed by the individual mind with the idea of creating personal experience. Nibbana is conditioned (paccaya) by following the Magga.



                I have laid out the argument for the above in greater detail at:
                http://buddhadust.net/dhammatalk/dhammatalk_forum/dhamma_talk/dt_009.conditioned.vs.own-made.htm



                So the absence of remorse is conditioned, but not being an existing thing, not having been constructed (sankharaed)-- it was the result of not-doing, is not itself subject to ending and is a small taste of Nibbana. Remorse being relative to its cause and the cause being removed the remorse is removed forever. Remorse may return but it will be based on another ill-conceived act.






                share|improve this answer









                New contributor



                Mike Olds is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.























                  1














                  1










                  1









                  The first thing here is to understand that the Buddha did not say, as it is almost universally translated: "All conditioned things are impermanent." He said all 'sankharas' are impermanent and sankhara does not mean 'condition'. It means san = own or self; and khara - make, and it means that which is constructed by the individual mind with the idea of creating personal experience. Nibbana is conditioned (paccaya) by following the Magga.



                  I have laid out the argument for the above in greater detail at:
                  http://buddhadust.net/dhammatalk/dhammatalk_forum/dhamma_talk/dt_009.conditioned.vs.own-made.htm



                  So the absence of remorse is conditioned, but not being an existing thing, not having been constructed (sankharaed)-- it was the result of not-doing, is not itself subject to ending and is a small taste of Nibbana. Remorse being relative to its cause and the cause being removed the remorse is removed forever. Remorse may return but it will be based on another ill-conceived act.






                  share|improve this answer









                  New contributor



                  Mike Olds is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                  The first thing here is to understand that the Buddha did not say, as it is almost universally translated: "All conditioned things are impermanent." He said all 'sankharas' are impermanent and sankhara does not mean 'condition'. It means san = own or self; and khara - make, and it means that which is constructed by the individual mind with the idea of creating personal experience. Nibbana is conditioned (paccaya) by following the Magga.



                  I have laid out the argument for the above in greater detail at:
                  http://buddhadust.net/dhammatalk/dhammatalk_forum/dhamma_talk/dt_009.conditioned.vs.own-made.htm



                  So the absence of remorse is conditioned, but not being an existing thing, not having been constructed (sankharaed)-- it was the result of not-doing, is not itself subject to ending and is a small taste of Nibbana. Remorse being relative to its cause and the cause being removed the remorse is removed forever. Remorse may return but it will be based on another ill-conceived act.







                  share|improve this answer









                  New contributor



                  Mike Olds is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.








                  share|improve this answer




                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer






                  New contributor



                  Mike Olds is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.








                  answered 8 hours ago









                  Mike OldsMike Olds

                  111 bronze badge




                  111 bronze badge




                  New contributor



                  Mike Olds is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.




                  New contributor




                  Mike Olds is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.

































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