Some questions about Lightning and TorInstalled bitcoin-qt and Tor, allowed firewall, Tor connects, but Bitcoin doesn'tCan I safely run Tor and Armory through Tor simultaneously?Basic questions about lightning network HTLCClarification about lightning networkLightning Onion Routing vs TORAre Tor .onion-addresses IP address independent?Can someone please explain how Lightning paths are working and what effect large centralized hubs have?How secure is using TOR in Lightning Network?A couple questions on lightning network

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Some questions about Lightning and Tor


Installed bitcoin-qt and Tor, allowed firewall, Tor connects, but Bitcoin doesn'tCan I safely run Tor and Armory through Tor simultaneously?Basic questions about lightning network HTLCClarification about lightning networkLightning Onion Routing vs TORAre Tor .onion-addresses IP address independent?Can someone please explain how Lightning paths are working and what effect large centralized hubs have?How secure is using TOR in Lightning Network?A couple questions on lightning network






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5















Currently there is a wave of articles claiming the Lightning Network is shrinking. If you look at official statistics, like on p2sh.info, this seems true.



I was told that some of it might be an effect of more and more Lightning nodes using Tor. Imho it is insane to run a LN node at home without Tor, so this might be a good explanation.



But there are some questions left ...



  1. Why do tor nodes don't show up in the statistics? I failed to find a good answer to this.


  2. If tor nodes don't show up in statistics - can non tor nodes route payments over them? Someone mentioned you need bridge nodes for it. Why? And what do bridge nodes do? Are they publicly known, do they have a special setup?


Thanks everybody. Looking forward for your answers.










share|improve this question







New contributor



Christoph Bergmann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



























    5















    Currently there is a wave of articles claiming the Lightning Network is shrinking. If you look at official statistics, like on p2sh.info, this seems true.



    I was told that some of it might be an effect of more and more Lightning nodes using Tor. Imho it is insane to run a LN node at home without Tor, so this might be a good explanation.



    But there are some questions left ...



    1. Why do tor nodes don't show up in the statistics? I failed to find a good answer to this.


    2. If tor nodes don't show up in statistics - can non tor nodes route payments over them? Someone mentioned you need bridge nodes for it. Why? And what do bridge nodes do? Are they publicly known, do they have a special setup?


    Thanks everybody. Looking forward for your answers.










    share|improve this question







    New contributor



    Christoph Bergmann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      5












      5








      5








      Currently there is a wave of articles claiming the Lightning Network is shrinking. If you look at official statistics, like on p2sh.info, this seems true.



      I was told that some of it might be an effect of more and more Lightning nodes using Tor. Imho it is insane to run a LN node at home without Tor, so this might be a good explanation.



      But there are some questions left ...



      1. Why do tor nodes don't show up in the statistics? I failed to find a good answer to this.


      2. If tor nodes don't show up in statistics - can non tor nodes route payments over them? Someone mentioned you need bridge nodes for it. Why? And what do bridge nodes do? Are they publicly known, do they have a special setup?


      Thanks everybody. Looking forward for your answers.










      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      Christoph Bergmann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      Currently there is a wave of articles claiming the Lightning Network is shrinking. If you look at official statistics, like on p2sh.info, this seems true.



      I was told that some of it might be an effect of more and more Lightning nodes using Tor. Imho it is insane to run a LN node at home without Tor, so this might be a good explanation.



      But there are some questions left ...



      1. Why do tor nodes don't show up in the statistics? I failed to find a good answer to this.


      2. If tor nodes don't show up in statistics - can non tor nodes route payments over them? Someone mentioned you need bridge nodes for it. Why? And what do bridge nodes do? Are they publicly known, do they have a special setup?


      Thanks everybody. Looking forward for your answers.







      lightning-network tor






      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      Christoph Bergmann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.










      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      Christoph Bergmann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question






      New contributor



      Christoph Bergmann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      asked 14 hours ago









      Christoph BergmannChristoph Bergmann

      261 bronze badge




      261 bronze badge




      New contributor



      Christoph Bergmann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

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          6















          Generally if you read BOLT 07 you will see that lightning nodes and channels can either be private or public.



          This is independent of the fact if they run on tor or not.



          The node announcment message explicitly supports announcing that it runs on tor as written in the BOLT 07




          The following address descriptor types are defined:




          • 1: ipv4; data = [4:ipv4_addr][2:port] (length 6)


          • 2: ipv6; data = [16:ipv6_addr][2:port] (length 18)


            • 3: Tor v2 onion service; data = [10:onion_addr][2:port] (length 12)

              • version 2 onion service addresses; Encodes an 80-bit, truncated SHA-1
                hash of a 1024-bit RSA public key for the onion service (a.k.a. Tor
                hidden service).



            • 4: Tor v3 onion service; data = [35:onion_addr][2:port] (length 37)

              • version 3 (prop224)
                onion service addresses; Encodes:
                [32:32_byte_ed25519_pubkey] || [2:checksum] || [1:version], where
                checksum = sha3(".onion checksum" | pubkey || version)[:2].





          However I think most users running on tor like their privacy and don't announce their node.



          Generally nodes can only be announced if they have at least one public channel. This is to prevent spam and DoS attacks on the gossip protocol. As some people only have private channels the nodes will not be announced.



          Also most mobile nodes like eclair by default open private channels because it might not be so useful for a user that their mobile phone consumes all the data from their carriers data plan to become a routing node.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 1





            Thanks for this good answer!

            – Christoph Bergmann
            14 hours ago


















          0















          Tor nodes do show up in statistics, for example, 1ml.com. I do run Lightning Network nodes only behind Tor.






          share|improve this answer



























            Your Answer








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            2 Answers
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            active

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            6















            Generally if you read BOLT 07 you will see that lightning nodes and channels can either be private or public.



            This is independent of the fact if they run on tor or not.



            The node announcment message explicitly supports announcing that it runs on tor as written in the BOLT 07




            The following address descriptor types are defined:




            • 1: ipv4; data = [4:ipv4_addr][2:port] (length 6)


            • 2: ipv6; data = [16:ipv6_addr][2:port] (length 18)


              • 3: Tor v2 onion service; data = [10:onion_addr][2:port] (length 12)

                • version 2 onion service addresses; Encodes an 80-bit, truncated SHA-1
                  hash of a 1024-bit RSA public key for the onion service (a.k.a. Tor
                  hidden service).



              • 4: Tor v3 onion service; data = [35:onion_addr][2:port] (length 37)

                • version 3 (prop224)
                  onion service addresses; Encodes:
                  [32:32_byte_ed25519_pubkey] || [2:checksum] || [1:version], where
                  checksum = sha3(".onion checksum" | pubkey || version)[:2].





            However I think most users running on tor like their privacy and don't announce their node.



            Generally nodes can only be announced if they have at least one public channel. This is to prevent spam and DoS attacks on the gossip protocol. As some people only have private channels the nodes will not be announced.



            Also most mobile nodes like eclair by default open private channels because it might not be so useful for a user that their mobile phone consumes all the data from their carriers data plan to become a routing node.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 1





              Thanks for this good answer!

              – Christoph Bergmann
              14 hours ago















            6















            Generally if you read BOLT 07 you will see that lightning nodes and channels can either be private or public.



            This is independent of the fact if they run on tor or not.



            The node announcment message explicitly supports announcing that it runs on tor as written in the BOLT 07




            The following address descriptor types are defined:




            • 1: ipv4; data = [4:ipv4_addr][2:port] (length 6)


            • 2: ipv6; data = [16:ipv6_addr][2:port] (length 18)


              • 3: Tor v2 onion service; data = [10:onion_addr][2:port] (length 12)

                • version 2 onion service addresses; Encodes an 80-bit, truncated SHA-1
                  hash of a 1024-bit RSA public key for the onion service (a.k.a. Tor
                  hidden service).



              • 4: Tor v3 onion service; data = [35:onion_addr][2:port] (length 37)

                • version 3 (prop224)
                  onion service addresses; Encodes:
                  [32:32_byte_ed25519_pubkey] || [2:checksum] || [1:version], where
                  checksum = sha3(".onion checksum" | pubkey || version)[:2].





            However I think most users running on tor like their privacy and don't announce their node.



            Generally nodes can only be announced if they have at least one public channel. This is to prevent spam and DoS attacks on the gossip protocol. As some people only have private channels the nodes will not be announced.



            Also most mobile nodes like eclair by default open private channels because it might not be so useful for a user that their mobile phone consumes all the data from their carriers data plan to become a routing node.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 1





              Thanks for this good answer!

              – Christoph Bergmann
              14 hours ago













            6














            6










            6









            Generally if you read BOLT 07 you will see that lightning nodes and channels can either be private or public.



            This is independent of the fact if they run on tor or not.



            The node announcment message explicitly supports announcing that it runs on tor as written in the BOLT 07




            The following address descriptor types are defined:




            • 1: ipv4; data = [4:ipv4_addr][2:port] (length 6)


            • 2: ipv6; data = [16:ipv6_addr][2:port] (length 18)


              • 3: Tor v2 onion service; data = [10:onion_addr][2:port] (length 12)

                • version 2 onion service addresses; Encodes an 80-bit, truncated SHA-1
                  hash of a 1024-bit RSA public key for the onion service (a.k.a. Tor
                  hidden service).



              • 4: Tor v3 onion service; data = [35:onion_addr][2:port] (length 37)

                • version 3 (prop224)
                  onion service addresses; Encodes:
                  [32:32_byte_ed25519_pubkey] || [2:checksum] || [1:version], where
                  checksum = sha3(".onion checksum" | pubkey || version)[:2].





            However I think most users running on tor like their privacy and don't announce their node.



            Generally nodes can only be announced if they have at least one public channel. This is to prevent spam and DoS attacks on the gossip protocol. As some people only have private channels the nodes will not be announced.



            Also most mobile nodes like eclair by default open private channels because it might not be so useful for a user that their mobile phone consumes all the data from their carriers data plan to become a routing node.






            share|improve this answer













            Generally if you read BOLT 07 you will see that lightning nodes and channels can either be private or public.



            This is independent of the fact if they run on tor or not.



            The node announcment message explicitly supports announcing that it runs on tor as written in the BOLT 07




            The following address descriptor types are defined:




            • 1: ipv4; data = [4:ipv4_addr][2:port] (length 6)


            • 2: ipv6; data = [16:ipv6_addr][2:port] (length 18)


              • 3: Tor v2 onion service; data = [10:onion_addr][2:port] (length 12)

                • version 2 onion service addresses; Encodes an 80-bit, truncated SHA-1
                  hash of a 1024-bit RSA public key for the onion service (a.k.a. Tor
                  hidden service).



              • 4: Tor v3 onion service; data = [35:onion_addr][2:port] (length 37)

                • version 3 (prop224)
                  onion service addresses; Encodes:
                  [32:32_byte_ed25519_pubkey] || [2:checksum] || [1:version], where
                  checksum = sha3(".onion checksum" | pubkey || version)[:2].





            However I think most users running on tor like their privacy and don't announce their node.



            Generally nodes can only be announced if they have at least one public channel. This is to prevent spam and DoS attacks on the gossip protocol. As some people only have private channels the nodes will not be announced.



            Also most mobile nodes like eclair by default open private channels because it might not be so useful for a user that their mobile phone consumes all the data from their carriers data plan to become a routing node.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 14 hours ago









            Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt

            5,1582 silver badges19 bronze badges




            5,1582 silver badges19 bronze badges










            • 1





              Thanks for this good answer!

              – Christoph Bergmann
              14 hours ago












            • 1





              Thanks for this good answer!

              – Christoph Bergmann
              14 hours ago







            1




            1





            Thanks for this good answer!

            – Christoph Bergmann
            14 hours ago





            Thanks for this good answer!

            – Christoph Bergmann
            14 hours ago













            0















            Tor nodes do show up in statistics, for example, 1ml.com. I do run Lightning Network nodes only behind Tor.






            share|improve this answer





























              0















              Tor nodes do show up in statistics, for example, 1ml.com. I do run Lightning Network nodes only behind Tor.






              share|improve this answer



























                0














                0










                0









                Tor nodes do show up in statistics, for example, 1ml.com. I do run Lightning Network nodes only behind Tor.






                share|improve this answer













                Tor nodes do show up in statistics, for example, 1ml.com. I do run Lightning Network nodes only behind Tor.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 14 hours ago









                Kristaps KaupeKristaps Kaupe

                765 bronze badges




                765 bronze badges























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