How to deal with an incompetent collaboratorHow to deal with a procrastinating (student) collaborator?How to get rid of unwanted and annoying co-author?How to work in a group where the group members need to be taught everything?High school student scooped by PhD student in the same labMaking sure I'm in good terms with peer researchers and not making enemiesStarting collaboration through first e-mail. Can it work?What should be taken note of in collaborating with professors/ researchers?Long distance collaboration with a professor – wrote manuscript, getting ignored. What to do next?Professor's weird behavior
Is torque as fundamental a concept as force?
Which is the best password hashing algorithm in .NET Core?
'Hard work never hurt anyone' Why not 'hurts'?
properties that real numbers hold but complex numbers does not
Does the Scrying spell require you to have a clear path to the target in order to work?
If p-value is exactly 1 (1.0000000), what are the confidence interval limits?
What is a "fat pointer" in Rust?
How to annoymously report the Establishment Clause being broken?
Why do we need explainable AI?
What is the converted mana cost of land cards?
How to find better food in airports
How to deal with an incompetent collaborator
Solve this icositetragram
Divide Numbers by 0
What is the maximal acceptable delay between pilot's input and flight control surface actuation?
Are there any writings by blinded and/or exiled Byzantine emperors?
exam: Macros for printing the values of labelwidth and labelsep for question/part
Adding transparency to ink drawing
What percentage of the mass/energy of the universe is in the form of electromagnetic waves?
Can an intercepting fighter jet force a small propeller aircraft down without completely destroying it?
Plotting level sets of the form f(x,y,c)==0
Can a Simulacrum reproduce?
Heuristic argument for the Riemann Hypothesis
IEEE Registration Authority mac prefix
How to deal with an incompetent collaborator
How to deal with a procrastinating (student) collaborator?How to get rid of unwanted and annoying co-author?How to work in a group where the group members need to be taught everything?High school student scooped by PhD student in the same labMaking sure I'm in good terms with peer researchers and not making enemiesStarting collaboration through first e-mail. Can it work?What should be taken note of in collaborating with professors/ researchers?Long distance collaboration with a professor – wrote manuscript, getting ignored. What to do next?Professor's weird behavior
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
I was asked by this (tenure-track) assistant professor X, with whom I'm in very friendly terms, to collaborate on a project together. X and I work in the same broad area of pure math (topology) but our subfields of expertise differ considerably. At the beginning I was very excited but I've now realized that X is at best extremely inefficient and at worst incompetent. We have been working on the project for some months now and 90% of the things that X says are wrong for very elementary reasons and the remaining 10% are borderline tautological. I'm getting very frustrated because I spend more time correcting his "proofs" (of very elementary claims, not even high level stuff!) than doing actual research. So far all we have is stuff I had proved before starting the collaboration with him which forms the base of the project we are working on. On the other hand he seems to be very keen on us working on a project together and as I've said we're friends. I don't know how to deal with this.
Should I give him some more time to actually contribute in some way to our project or should I tell him that I no longer want to collaborate with him? In the latter case would it be ethical if I worked on my stuff that I shared with him? He literally hasn't added any value whatsoever to it so far.
mathematics ethics collaboration
New contributor
add a comment |
I was asked by this (tenure-track) assistant professor X, with whom I'm in very friendly terms, to collaborate on a project together. X and I work in the same broad area of pure math (topology) but our subfields of expertise differ considerably. At the beginning I was very excited but I've now realized that X is at best extremely inefficient and at worst incompetent. We have been working on the project for some months now and 90% of the things that X says are wrong for very elementary reasons and the remaining 10% are borderline tautological. I'm getting very frustrated because I spend more time correcting his "proofs" (of very elementary claims, not even high level stuff!) than doing actual research. So far all we have is stuff I had proved before starting the collaboration with him which forms the base of the project we are working on. On the other hand he seems to be very keen on us working on a project together and as I've said we're friends. I don't know how to deal with this.
Should I give him some more time to actually contribute in some way to our project or should I tell him that I no longer want to collaborate with him? In the latter case would it be ethical if I worked on my stuff that I shared with him? He literally hasn't added any value whatsoever to it so far.
mathematics ethics collaboration
New contributor
add a comment |
I was asked by this (tenure-track) assistant professor X, with whom I'm in very friendly terms, to collaborate on a project together. X and I work in the same broad area of pure math (topology) but our subfields of expertise differ considerably. At the beginning I was very excited but I've now realized that X is at best extremely inefficient and at worst incompetent. We have been working on the project for some months now and 90% of the things that X says are wrong for very elementary reasons and the remaining 10% are borderline tautological. I'm getting very frustrated because I spend more time correcting his "proofs" (of very elementary claims, not even high level stuff!) than doing actual research. So far all we have is stuff I had proved before starting the collaboration with him which forms the base of the project we are working on. On the other hand he seems to be very keen on us working on a project together and as I've said we're friends. I don't know how to deal with this.
Should I give him some more time to actually contribute in some way to our project or should I tell him that I no longer want to collaborate with him? In the latter case would it be ethical if I worked on my stuff that I shared with him? He literally hasn't added any value whatsoever to it so far.
mathematics ethics collaboration
New contributor
I was asked by this (tenure-track) assistant professor X, with whom I'm in very friendly terms, to collaborate on a project together. X and I work in the same broad area of pure math (topology) but our subfields of expertise differ considerably. At the beginning I was very excited but I've now realized that X is at best extremely inefficient and at worst incompetent. We have been working on the project for some months now and 90% of the things that X says are wrong for very elementary reasons and the remaining 10% are borderline tautological. I'm getting very frustrated because I spend more time correcting his "proofs" (of very elementary claims, not even high level stuff!) than doing actual research. So far all we have is stuff I had proved before starting the collaboration with him which forms the base of the project we are working on. On the other hand he seems to be very keen on us working on a project together and as I've said we're friends. I don't know how to deal with this.
Should I give him some more time to actually contribute in some way to our project or should I tell him that I no longer want to collaborate with him? In the latter case would it be ethical if I worked on my stuff that I shared with him? He literally hasn't added any value whatsoever to it so far.
mathematics ethics collaboration
mathematics ethics collaboration
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 10 hours ago
user112589user112589
382 bronze badges
382 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
This may be too personal for a good answer here, but let me make a couple of suggestions. The big issue, I think, is how important to you is the personal relationship. If it is important enough, then you might want to just help him with his education rather than the collaboration, per se. If you are colleagues at the same institution, it might even be necessary to do something like that for your own protection.
One way would be to found a research group with a few faculty and some graduate students where the goal is just as much about pushing people up the scale as it is the actual research. If your colleague agrees to this, he might improve his own grounding in the subject.
But if you are willing to let the personal relationship go, then you can also let the collaboration go as well. It might be difficult to step away from it, of course.
But you don't really say what you mean by "collaboration". If you mean "I'll do this and you do that", then it probably isn't going to work - ever. But if you work closely together (one desk) or in the research group idea, then it might work better, as long as you don't feel used with "giving" joint authorship for things you think are really yours. But I don't really consider splitting the work as collaboration.
One way to split up is to ask your colleague how he thinks it is working out. If you think you could go faster alone, then it isn't wrong, just uncomfortable, to say so. Egos can be bruised, of course.
Ethics would only enter in if you took work of his and didn't provide the appropriate credit, whatever that might be.
I guess I should also note that in many collaborations, someone is dominant. For example, many of the people who are Erdős-2 likely felt like the junior partner. But one that is uniformly unbalanced can be frustrating as you say.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer! X and I are not collegues at the same institution so thankfully there isn't that extra layer of potential drama. As for how collaborations go, I agree with you that one in which the co-authors merely "split" tasks wouldn't be great. We have worked closely together (one desk style) for some weeks before. I would spend most of the time explaining why certain things wouldn't work, correcting mistakes and pointing out structural flaws...
– user112589
9 hours ago
... I felt really bad because I could see that X was getting demoralized. I don't want to antagonize him but I also don't want to waste my time on something I see very little future on. The work I shared with X is now in a file where both me and X appear as authors. That's why I'm not sure if it's ethical if I "claim" it back, since he's put some time in trying to understand what I had done.
– user112589
9 hours ago
Probably a mistake to "claim it back". Let the old work stand, but find a better way for the next one. No single paper should be a make or break situation.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
Thanks for your advice. It really helps.
– user112589
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Not all attempted mathematical research succeeds. Sometimes you work on something for hours, days, weeks...and realize at the end you have too little to show for it, or that you made a crucial error that ruins everything. This applies in particular to collaborations: just because you get together with someone (or someones) and propose to work on X, it doesn't mean that you will end up writing a paper on X or even making any progress on X. (This has certainly happened to me.)
Hows is this relevant to your present situation? Well, on the one hand you seem worried about disappointing your friend, which I certainly understand, but actually you delivered on the deal: he wanted to collaborate with you, and so you have. Surely you didn't agree to collaborate until you achieved some specific goal, no matter what, right? So I don't think you should feel too bad about breaking off the collaboration: all collaborations are parted sooner or later, and most by mathematicians who remain active on other projects. On the other hand, you use the word incompetent, which seems harsh to me. Most mathematicians lack the competence to solve (or even to superficially understand!) most mathematical problems, of course. Just because your friend can't make correct arguments on this topic doesn't mean they are not competent in something else. Also collaboration gives you a chance to see someone at their worst as well as their best: some mathematicians make a lot of mistakes that no one ever hears about, but people hear about their remarkable successes. (We generally respect and admire these mathematicians.)
If you are describing your friend as "incompetent," it sure sounds to me like you want to be out of the collaboration, so I would suggest that you do so, by which I mean ending the research sessions with your friend. In my opinion the "classy move" would then be to write up what you have so far and ask your friend how they wish to proceed. They may well decline to be an author on the paper. Or maybe they will accept to be an author, either because they think they brought more to the table than you do or because professional exigencies make them feel that they cannot turn down an authorship on something they spent this much time working on. This kind of thing used to bother me. It doesn't really anymore. I don't think your friend is going to get tenure "unfairly" because of this one project with you.
Of course once you have decided what to do about your joint work and that you will not collaborate anymore, you are completely free to do further work as you see fit.
Thanks. I agree that "incompetent" is a harsh word but again 9 things that X says out of 10 are complete nonsense. I'm not even talking about high level topology here. I'm talking about lack of knowledge of basic logicical implications (i.e. sufficient vs necessary), conceptual mistakes in basic linear algebra manipulations, ignorance of basic topological concepts and facts, misinterpreting definitions etc. That's why I'm so frustrated. Add to that that the few higher level ideas X had (about stuff in his subfield) while working with me were just so blatantly nonsensical...
– user112589
55 mins ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "415"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
user112589 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2facademia.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f135595%2fhow-to-deal-with-an-incompetent-collaborator%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
This may be too personal for a good answer here, but let me make a couple of suggestions. The big issue, I think, is how important to you is the personal relationship. If it is important enough, then you might want to just help him with his education rather than the collaboration, per se. If you are colleagues at the same institution, it might even be necessary to do something like that for your own protection.
One way would be to found a research group with a few faculty and some graduate students where the goal is just as much about pushing people up the scale as it is the actual research. If your colleague agrees to this, he might improve his own grounding in the subject.
But if you are willing to let the personal relationship go, then you can also let the collaboration go as well. It might be difficult to step away from it, of course.
But you don't really say what you mean by "collaboration". If you mean "I'll do this and you do that", then it probably isn't going to work - ever. But if you work closely together (one desk) or in the research group idea, then it might work better, as long as you don't feel used with "giving" joint authorship for things you think are really yours. But I don't really consider splitting the work as collaboration.
One way to split up is to ask your colleague how he thinks it is working out. If you think you could go faster alone, then it isn't wrong, just uncomfortable, to say so. Egos can be bruised, of course.
Ethics would only enter in if you took work of his and didn't provide the appropriate credit, whatever that might be.
I guess I should also note that in many collaborations, someone is dominant. For example, many of the people who are Erdős-2 likely felt like the junior partner. But one that is uniformly unbalanced can be frustrating as you say.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer! X and I are not collegues at the same institution so thankfully there isn't that extra layer of potential drama. As for how collaborations go, I agree with you that one in which the co-authors merely "split" tasks wouldn't be great. We have worked closely together (one desk style) for some weeks before. I would spend most of the time explaining why certain things wouldn't work, correcting mistakes and pointing out structural flaws...
– user112589
9 hours ago
... I felt really bad because I could see that X was getting demoralized. I don't want to antagonize him but I also don't want to waste my time on something I see very little future on. The work I shared with X is now in a file where both me and X appear as authors. That's why I'm not sure if it's ethical if I "claim" it back, since he's put some time in trying to understand what I had done.
– user112589
9 hours ago
Probably a mistake to "claim it back". Let the old work stand, but find a better way for the next one. No single paper should be a make or break situation.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
Thanks for your advice. It really helps.
– user112589
9 hours ago
add a comment |
This may be too personal for a good answer here, but let me make a couple of suggestions. The big issue, I think, is how important to you is the personal relationship. If it is important enough, then you might want to just help him with his education rather than the collaboration, per se. If you are colleagues at the same institution, it might even be necessary to do something like that for your own protection.
One way would be to found a research group with a few faculty and some graduate students where the goal is just as much about pushing people up the scale as it is the actual research. If your colleague agrees to this, he might improve his own grounding in the subject.
But if you are willing to let the personal relationship go, then you can also let the collaboration go as well. It might be difficult to step away from it, of course.
But you don't really say what you mean by "collaboration". If you mean "I'll do this and you do that", then it probably isn't going to work - ever. But if you work closely together (one desk) or in the research group idea, then it might work better, as long as you don't feel used with "giving" joint authorship for things you think are really yours. But I don't really consider splitting the work as collaboration.
One way to split up is to ask your colleague how he thinks it is working out. If you think you could go faster alone, then it isn't wrong, just uncomfortable, to say so. Egos can be bruised, of course.
Ethics would only enter in if you took work of his and didn't provide the appropriate credit, whatever that might be.
I guess I should also note that in many collaborations, someone is dominant. For example, many of the people who are Erdős-2 likely felt like the junior partner. But one that is uniformly unbalanced can be frustrating as you say.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer! X and I are not collegues at the same institution so thankfully there isn't that extra layer of potential drama. As for how collaborations go, I agree with you that one in which the co-authors merely "split" tasks wouldn't be great. We have worked closely together (one desk style) for some weeks before. I would spend most of the time explaining why certain things wouldn't work, correcting mistakes and pointing out structural flaws...
– user112589
9 hours ago
... I felt really bad because I could see that X was getting demoralized. I don't want to antagonize him but I also don't want to waste my time on something I see very little future on. The work I shared with X is now in a file where both me and X appear as authors. That's why I'm not sure if it's ethical if I "claim" it back, since he's put some time in trying to understand what I had done.
– user112589
9 hours ago
Probably a mistake to "claim it back". Let the old work stand, but find a better way for the next one. No single paper should be a make or break situation.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
Thanks for your advice. It really helps.
– user112589
9 hours ago
add a comment |
This may be too personal for a good answer here, but let me make a couple of suggestions. The big issue, I think, is how important to you is the personal relationship. If it is important enough, then you might want to just help him with his education rather than the collaboration, per se. If you are colleagues at the same institution, it might even be necessary to do something like that for your own protection.
One way would be to found a research group with a few faculty and some graduate students where the goal is just as much about pushing people up the scale as it is the actual research. If your colleague agrees to this, he might improve his own grounding in the subject.
But if you are willing to let the personal relationship go, then you can also let the collaboration go as well. It might be difficult to step away from it, of course.
But you don't really say what you mean by "collaboration". If you mean "I'll do this and you do that", then it probably isn't going to work - ever. But if you work closely together (one desk) or in the research group idea, then it might work better, as long as you don't feel used with "giving" joint authorship for things you think are really yours. But I don't really consider splitting the work as collaboration.
One way to split up is to ask your colleague how he thinks it is working out. If you think you could go faster alone, then it isn't wrong, just uncomfortable, to say so. Egos can be bruised, of course.
Ethics would only enter in if you took work of his and didn't provide the appropriate credit, whatever that might be.
I guess I should also note that in many collaborations, someone is dominant. For example, many of the people who are Erdős-2 likely felt like the junior partner. But one that is uniformly unbalanced can be frustrating as you say.
This may be too personal for a good answer here, but let me make a couple of suggestions. The big issue, I think, is how important to you is the personal relationship. If it is important enough, then you might want to just help him with his education rather than the collaboration, per se. If you are colleagues at the same institution, it might even be necessary to do something like that for your own protection.
One way would be to found a research group with a few faculty and some graduate students where the goal is just as much about pushing people up the scale as it is the actual research. If your colleague agrees to this, he might improve his own grounding in the subject.
But if you are willing to let the personal relationship go, then you can also let the collaboration go as well. It might be difficult to step away from it, of course.
But you don't really say what you mean by "collaboration". If you mean "I'll do this and you do that", then it probably isn't going to work - ever. But if you work closely together (one desk) or in the research group idea, then it might work better, as long as you don't feel used with "giving" joint authorship for things you think are really yours. But I don't really consider splitting the work as collaboration.
One way to split up is to ask your colleague how he thinks it is working out. If you think you could go faster alone, then it isn't wrong, just uncomfortable, to say so. Egos can be bruised, of course.
Ethics would only enter in if you took work of his and didn't provide the appropriate credit, whatever that might be.
I guess I should also note that in many collaborations, someone is dominant. For example, many of the people who are Erdős-2 likely felt like the junior partner. But one that is uniformly unbalanced can be frustrating as you say.
edited 10 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
BuffyBuffy
80.8k21 gold badges246 silver badges354 bronze badges
80.8k21 gold badges246 silver badges354 bronze badges
Thanks for the thoughtful answer! X and I are not collegues at the same institution so thankfully there isn't that extra layer of potential drama. As for how collaborations go, I agree with you that one in which the co-authors merely "split" tasks wouldn't be great. We have worked closely together (one desk style) for some weeks before. I would spend most of the time explaining why certain things wouldn't work, correcting mistakes and pointing out structural flaws...
– user112589
9 hours ago
... I felt really bad because I could see that X was getting demoralized. I don't want to antagonize him but I also don't want to waste my time on something I see very little future on. The work I shared with X is now in a file where both me and X appear as authors. That's why I'm not sure if it's ethical if I "claim" it back, since he's put some time in trying to understand what I had done.
– user112589
9 hours ago
Probably a mistake to "claim it back". Let the old work stand, but find a better way for the next one. No single paper should be a make or break situation.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
Thanks for your advice. It really helps.
– user112589
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for the thoughtful answer! X and I are not collegues at the same institution so thankfully there isn't that extra layer of potential drama. As for how collaborations go, I agree with you that one in which the co-authors merely "split" tasks wouldn't be great. We have worked closely together (one desk style) for some weeks before. I would spend most of the time explaining why certain things wouldn't work, correcting mistakes and pointing out structural flaws...
– user112589
9 hours ago
... I felt really bad because I could see that X was getting demoralized. I don't want to antagonize him but I also don't want to waste my time on something I see very little future on. The work I shared with X is now in a file where both me and X appear as authors. That's why I'm not sure if it's ethical if I "claim" it back, since he's put some time in trying to understand what I had done.
– user112589
9 hours ago
Probably a mistake to "claim it back". Let the old work stand, but find a better way for the next one. No single paper should be a make or break situation.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
Thanks for your advice. It really helps.
– user112589
9 hours ago
Thanks for the thoughtful answer! X and I are not collegues at the same institution so thankfully there isn't that extra layer of potential drama. As for how collaborations go, I agree with you that one in which the co-authors merely "split" tasks wouldn't be great. We have worked closely together (one desk style) for some weeks before. I would spend most of the time explaining why certain things wouldn't work, correcting mistakes and pointing out structural flaws...
– user112589
9 hours ago
Thanks for the thoughtful answer! X and I are not collegues at the same institution so thankfully there isn't that extra layer of potential drama. As for how collaborations go, I agree with you that one in which the co-authors merely "split" tasks wouldn't be great. We have worked closely together (one desk style) for some weeks before. I would spend most of the time explaining why certain things wouldn't work, correcting mistakes and pointing out structural flaws...
– user112589
9 hours ago
... I felt really bad because I could see that X was getting demoralized. I don't want to antagonize him but I also don't want to waste my time on something I see very little future on. The work I shared with X is now in a file where both me and X appear as authors. That's why I'm not sure if it's ethical if I "claim" it back, since he's put some time in trying to understand what I had done.
– user112589
9 hours ago
... I felt really bad because I could see that X was getting demoralized. I don't want to antagonize him but I also don't want to waste my time on something I see very little future on. The work I shared with X is now in a file where both me and X appear as authors. That's why I'm not sure if it's ethical if I "claim" it back, since he's put some time in trying to understand what I had done.
– user112589
9 hours ago
Probably a mistake to "claim it back". Let the old work stand, but find a better way for the next one. No single paper should be a make or break situation.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
Probably a mistake to "claim it back". Let the old work stand, but find a better way for the next one. No single paper should be a make or break situation.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
Thanks for your advice. It really helps.
– user112589
9 hours ago
Thanks for your advice. It really helps.
– user112589
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Not all attempted mathematical research succeeds. Sometimes you work on something for hours, days, weeks...and realize at the end you have too little to show for it, or that you made a crucial error that ruins everything. This applies in particular to collaborations: just because you get together with someone (or someones) and propose to work on X, it doesn't mean that you will end up writing a paper on X or even making any progress on X. (This has certainly happened to me.)
Hows is this relevant to your present situation? Well, on the one hand you seem worried about disappointing your friend, which I certainly understand, but actually you delivered on the deal: he wanted to collaborate with you, and so you have. Surely you didn't agree to collaborate until you achieved some specific goal, no matter what, right? So I don't think you should feel too bad about breaking off the collaboration: all collaborations are parted sooner or later, and most by mathematicians who remain active on other projects. On the other hand, you use the word incompetent, which seems harsh to me. Most mathematicians lack the competence to solve (or even to superficially understand!) most mathematical problems, of course. Just because your friend can't make correct arguments on this topic doesn't mean they are not competent in something else. Also collaboration gives you a chance to see someone at their worst as well as their best: some mathematicians make a lot of mistakes that no one ever hears about, but people hear about their remarkable successes. (We generally respect and admire these mathematicians.)
If you are describing your friend as "incompetent," it sure sounds to me like you want to be out of the collaboration, so I would suggest that you do so, by which I mean ending the research sessions with your friend. In my opinion the "classy move" would then be to write up what you have so far and ask your friend how they wish to proceed. They may well decline to be an author on the paper. Or maybe they will accept to be an author, either because they think they brought more to the table than you do or because professional exigencies make them feel that they cannot turn down an authorship on something they spent this much time working on. This kind of thing used to bother me. It doesn't really anymore. I don't think your friend is going to get tenure "unfairly" because of this one project with you.
Of course once you have decided what to do about your joint work and that you will not collaborate anymore, you are completely free to do further work as you see fit.
Thanks. I agree that "incompetent" is a harsh word but again 9 things that X says out of 10 are complete nonsense. I'm not even talking about high level topology here. I'm talking about lack of knowledge of basic logicical implications (i.e. sufficient vs necessary), conceptual mistakes in basic linear algebra manipulations, ignorance of basic topological concepts and facts, misinterpreting definitions etc. That's why I'm so frustrated. Add to that that the few higher level ideas X had (about stuff in his subfield) while working with me were just so blatantly nonsensical...
– user112589
55 mins ago
add a comment |
Not all attempted mathematical research succeeds. Sometimes you work on something for hours, days, weeks...and realize at the end you have too little to show for it, or that you made a crucial error that ruins everything. This applies in particular to collaborations: just because you get together with someone (or someones) and propose to work on X, it doesn't mean that you will end up writing a paper on X or even making any progress on X. (This has certainly happened to me.)
Hows is this relevant to your present situation? Well, on the one hand you seem worried about disappointing your friend, which I certainly understand, but actually you delivered on the deal: he wanted to collaborate with you, and so you have. Surely you didn't agree to collaborate until you achieved some specific goal, no matter what, right? So I don't think you should feel too bad about breaking off the collaboration: all collaborations are parted sooner or later, and most by mathematicians who remain active on other projects. On the other hand, you use the word incompetent, which seems harsh to me. Most mathematicians lack the competence to solve (or even to superficially understand!) most mathematical problems, of course. Just because your friend can't make correct arguments on this topic doesn't mean they are not competent in something else. Also collaboration gives you a chance to see someone at their worst as well as their best: some mathematicians make a lot of mistakes that no one ever hears about, but people hear about their remarkable successes. (We generally respect and admire these mathematicians.)
If you are describing your friend as "incompetent," it sure sounds to me like you want to be out of the collaboration, so I would suggest that you do so, by which I mean ending the research sessions with your friend. In my opinion the "classy move" would then be to write up what you have so far and ask your friend how they wish to proceed. They may well decline to be an author on the paper. Or maybe they will accept to be an author, either because they think they brought more to the table than you do or because professional exigencies make them feel that they cannot turn down an authorship on something they spent this much time working on. This kind of thing used to bother me. It doesn't really anymore. I don't think your friend is going to get tenure "unfairly" because of this one project with you.
Of course once you have decided what to do about your joint work and that you will not collaborate anymore, you are completely free to do further work as you see fit.
Thanks. I agree that "incompetent" is a harsh word but again 9 things that X says out of 10 are complete nonsense. I'm not even talking about high level topology here. I'm talking about lack of knowledge of basic logicical implications (i.e. sufficient vs necessary), conceptual mistakes in basic linear algebra manipulations, ignorance of basic topological concepts and facts, misinterpreting definitions etc. That's why I'm so frustrated. Add to that that the few higher level ideas X had (about stuff in his subfield) while working with me were just so blatantly nonsensical...
– user112589
55 mins ago
add a comment |
Not all attempted mathematical research succeeds. Sometimes you work on something for hours, days, weeks...and realize at the end you have too little to show for it, or that you made a crucial error that ruins everything. This applies in particular to collaborations: just because you get together with someone (or someones) and propose to work on X, it doesn't mean that you will end up writing a paper on X or even making any progress on X. (This has certainly happened to me.)
Hows is this relevant to your present situation? Well, on the one hand you seem worried about disappointing your friend, which I certainly understand, but actually you delivered on the deal: he wanted to collaborate with you, and so you have. Surely you didn't agree to collaborate until you achieved some specific goal, no matter what, right? So I don't think you should feel too bad about breaking off the collaboration: all collaborations are parted sooner or later, and most by mathematicians who remain active on other projects. On the other hand, you use the word incompetent, which seems harsh to me. Most mathematicians lack the competence to solve (or even to superficially understand!) most mathematical problems, of course. Just because your friend can't make correct arguments on this topic doesn't mean they are not competent in something else. Also collaboration gives you a chance to see someone at their worst as well as their best: some mathematicians make a lot of mistakes that no one ever hears about, but people hear about their remarkable successes. (We generally respect and admire these mathematicians.)
If you are describing your friend as "incompetent," it sure sounds to me like you want to be out of the collaboration, so I would suggest that you do so, by which I mean ending the research sessions with your friend. In my opinion the "classy move" would then be to write up what you have so far and ask your friend how they wish to proceed. They may well decline to be an author on the paper. Or maybe they will accept to be an author, either because they think they brought more to the table than you do or because professional exigencies make them feel that they cannot turn down an authorship on something they spent this much time working on. This kind of thing used to bother me. It doesn't really anymore. I don't think your friend is going to get tenure "unfairly" because of this one project with you.
Of course once you have decided what to do about your joint work and that you will not collaborate anymore, you are completely free to do further work as you see fit.
Not all attempted mathematical research succeeds. Sometimes you work on something for hours, days, weeks...and realize at the end you have too little to show for it, or that you made a crucial error that ruins everything. This applies in particular to collaborations: just because you get together with someone (or someones) and propose to work on X, it doesn't mean that you will end up writing a paper on X or even making any progress on X. (This has certainly happened to me.)
Hows is this relevant to your present situation? Well, on the one hand you seem worried about disappointing your friend, which I certainly understand, but actually you delivered on the deal: he wanted to collaborate with you, and so you have. Surely you didn't agree to collaborate until you achieved some specific goal, no matter what, right? So I don't think you should feel too bad about breaking off the collaboration: all collaborations are parted sooner or later, and most by mathematicians who remain active on other projects. On the other hand, you use the word incompetent, which seems harsh to me. Most mathematicians lack the competence to solve (or even to superficially understand!) most mathematical problems, of course. Just because your friend can't make correct arguments on this topic doesn't mean they are not competent in something else. Also collaboration gives you a chance to see someone at their worst as well as their best: some mathematicians make a lot of mistakes that no one ever hears about, but people hear about their remarkable successes. (We generally respect and admire these mathematicians.)
If you are describing your friend as "incompetent," it sure sounds to me like you want to be out of the collaboration, so I would suggest that you do so, by which I mean ending the research sessions with your friend. In my opinion the "classy move" would then be to write up what you have so far and ask your friend how they wish to proceed. They may well decline to be an author on the paper. Or maybe they will accept to be an author, either because they think they brought more to the table than you do or because professional exigencies make them feel that they cannot turn down an authorship on something they spent this much time working on. This kind of thing used to bother me. It doesn't really anymore. I don't think your friend is going to get tenure "unfairly" because of this one project with you.
Of course once you have decided what to do about your joint work and that you will not collaborate anymore, you are completely free to do further work as you see fit.
answered 9 hours ago
Pete L. ClarkPete L. Clark
119k23 gold badges326 silver badges481 bronze badges
119k23 gold badges326 silver badges481 bronze badges
Thanks. I agree that "incompetent" is a harsh word but again 9 things that X says out of 10 are complete nonsense. I'm not even talking about high level topology here. I'm talking about lack of knowledge of basic logicical implications (i.e. sufficient vs necessary), conceptual mistakes in basic linear algebra manipulations, ignorance of basic topological concepts and facts, misinterpreting definitions etc. That's why I'm so frustrated. Add to that that the few higher level ideas X had (about stuff in his subfield) while working with me were just so blatantly nonsensical...
– user112589
55 mins ago
add a comment |
Thanks. I agree that "incompetent" is a harsh word but again 9 things that X says out of 10 are complete nonsense. I'm not even talking about high level topology here. I'm talking about lack of knowledge of basic logicical implications (i.e. sufficient vs necessary), conceptual mistakes in basic linear algebra manipulations, ignorance of basic topological concepts and facts, misinterpreting definitions etc. That's why I'm so frustrated. Add to that that the few higher level ideas X had (about stuff in his subfield) while working with me were just so blatantly nonsensical...
– user112589
55 mins ago
Thanks. I agree that "incompetent" is a harsh word but again 9 things that X says out of 10 are complete nonsense. I'm not even talking about high level topology here. I'm talking about lack of knowledge of basic logicical implications (i.e. sufficient vs necessary), conceptual mistakes in basic linear algebra manipulations, ignorance of basic topological concepts and facts, misinterpreting definitions etc. That's why I'm so frustrated. Add to that that the few higher level ideas X had (about stuff in his subfield) while working with me were just so blatantly nonsensical...
– user112589
55 mins ago
Thanks. I agree that "incompetent" is a harsh word but again 9 things that X says out of 10 are complete nonsense. I'm not even talking about high level topology here. I'm talking about lack of knowledge of basic logicical implications (i.e. sufficient vs necessary), conceptual mistakes in basic linear algebra manipulations, ignorance of basic topological concepts and facts, misinterpreting definitions etc. That's why I'm so frustrated. Add to that that the few higher level ideas X had (about stuff in his subfield) while working with me were just so blatantly nonsensical...
– user112589
55 mins ago
add a comment |
user112589 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user112589 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user112589 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user112589 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Academia Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2facademia.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f135595%2fhow-to-deal-with-an-incompetent-collaborator%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown