Field of a uniformly charged disk: integration question( Legendre Generating Function) Off axis Electric Potential from an insulated diskUnderstanding Calculus Notation in PhysicsWhy is this integral for a uniform electric field of a charged plate not evaluating correctly?Calculation of a net electric field for a charged ring - weird integrationElectric field of infinite sheetHow to recover the potential field from Green's function and Poisson's equation for a point charge
IEEE Registration Authority mac prefix
Why would a Intel 8080 chip be destroyed if +12 V is connected before -5 V?
My boss says "This will help us better view the utilization of your services." Does this mean my job is ending in this organisation?
How does Harry wear the invisibility cloak?
I have two helper functions that are the exact same, one executes and one doesn't. How come?
Can my UK debt be collected because I have to return to US?
Initializing a std::array with a constant value
How to disambiguate between various meditation practices?
What is the significance of 104%?
Function of the separated, individual solar cells on Telstar 1 and 2? Why were they "special"?
Calculus Books, preferably Soviet.
How to add some symbol (or just add newline) if the numbers in the text are not continuous
Are there any writings by blinded and/or exiled Byzantine emperors?
Solve this icositetragram
How can I design a magically-induced coma?
Given a specific computer system, is it possible to estimate the actual precise run time of a piece of Assembly code
Using font to highlight a god's speech in dialogue
In mathematics is there a substitution that is "different" from Vieta's substitution to solve the cubic equation?
Is mathematics truth?
Received email from ISP saying one of my devices has malware
Remove ads in Viber for PC
Why didn't Thatcher give Hong Kong to Taiwan?
Some questions about Lightning and Tor
Why do old games use flashing as means of showing damage?
Field of a uniformly charged disk: integration question
( Legendre Generating Function) Off axis Electric Potential from an insulated diskUnderstanding Calculus Notation in PhysicsWhy is this integral for a uniform electric field of a charged plate not evaluating correctly?Calculation of a net electric field for a charged ring - weird integrationElectric field of infinite sheetHow to recover the potential field from Green's function and Poisson's equation for a point charge
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
In my book (University Physics by Young and Freedman), during solving the common example of finding the electric field along the x-axis from a uniformly charged disk, they arrive at this differential expression:
$$dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Then they say:
To find the total field due to all the rings, we integrate $dE_x$ over $r$ from $r=0$ to $r=R$ (not from $-R$ to $R$):
$$E_x = int_0^R 1 over 4piepsilon_0(2pisigma r dr)x over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
I am confused as to how they arrived at this line. The right hand side suggests that they integrated both sides of the differential equation with a definite integral, but if that were the case, the left hand side would have been
$$int_0^R dE_x = [E_x]_0^R = R - 0 = R$$
Instead, it looks like they integrated the left hand side of the differential equation with an indefinite integral, so they would get
$$int dE_x = E_x$$
Certainly, integrating one side with an indefinite integral and the other side with a definite integral cannot be a valid step because you are not doing the same thing to both sides.
How can their result be rigorously justified and what is wrong with my reasoning?
electrostatics electric-fields charge integration
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In my book (University Physics by Young and Freedman), during solving the common example of finding the electric field along the x-axis from a uniformly charged disk, they arrive at this differential expression:
$$dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Then they say:
To find the total field due to all the rings, we integrate $dE_x$ over $r$ from $r=0$ to $r=R$ (not from $-R$ to $R$):
$$E_x = int_0^R 1 over 4piepsilon_0(2pisigma r dr)x over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
I am confused as to how they arrived at this line. The right hand side suggests that they integrated both sides of the differential equation with a definite integral, but if that were the case, the left hand side would have been
$$int_0^R dE_x = [E_x]_0^R = R - 0 = R$$
Instead, it looks like they integrated the left hand side of the differential equation with an indefinite integral, so they would get
$$int dE_x = E_x$$
Certainly, integrating one side with an indefinite integral and the other side with a definite integral cannot be a valid step because you are not doing the same thing to both sides.
How can their result be rigorously justified and what is wrong with my reasoning?
electrostatics electric-fields charge integration
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You're integrating with dE, not dr, on the left hand side, so the limits of integration can't be the same.
$endgroup$
– DanDan0101
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good point. I guess the limits of integration should be the electric field at point $r=0$ and at point $r=R$? $int_E_x(0)^E_x(R) dE_x = E_x(R) - E_x(0)$ This still doesn't make sense to me.
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$ represents the field component at the point due to a ring.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
...and that $vecE=E_xhati$.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In my book (University Physics by Young and Freedman), during solving the common example of finding the electric field along the x-axis from a uniformly charged disk, they arrive at this differential expression:
$$dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Then they say:
To find the total field due to all the rings, we integrate $dE_x$ over $r$ from $r=0$ to $r=R$ (not from $-R$ to $R$):
$$E_x = int_0^R 1 over 4piepsilon_0(2pisigma r dr)x over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
I am confused as to how they arrived at this line. The right hand side suggests that they integrated both sides of the differential equation with a definite integral, but if that were the case, the left hand side would have been
$$int_0^R dE_x = [E_x]_0^R = R - 0 = R$$
Instead, it looks like they integrated the left hand side of the differential equation with an indefinite integral, so they would get
$$int dE_x = E_x$$
Certainly, integrating one side with an indefinite integral and the other side with a definite integral cannot be a valid step because you are not doing the same thing to both sides.
How can their result be rigorously justified and what is wrong with my reasoning?
electrostatics electric-fields charge integration
$endgroup$
In my book (University Physics by Young and Freedman), during solving the common example of finding the electric field along the x-axis from a uniformly charged disk, they arrive at this differential expression:
$$dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Then they say:
To find the total field due to all the rings, we integrate $dE_x$ over $r$ from $r=0$ to $r=R$ (not from $-R$ to $R$):
$$E_x = int_0^R 1 over 4piepsilon_0(2pisigma r dr)x over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
I am confused as to how they arrived at this line. The right hand side suggests that they integrated both sides of the differential equation with a definite integral, but if that were the case, the left hand side would have been
$$int_0^R dE_x = [E_x]_0^R = R - 0 = R$$
Instead, it looks like they integrated the left hand side of the differential equation with an indefinite integral, so they would get
$$int dE_x = E_x$$
Certainly, integrating one side with an indefinite integral and the other side with a definite integral cannot be a valid step because you are not doing the same thing to both sides.
How can their result be rigorously justified and what is wrong with my reasoning?
electrostatics electric-fields charge integration
electrostatics electric-fields charge integration
edited 9 hours ago
Aaron Stevens
22.2k4 gold badges41 silver badges78 bronze badges
22.2k4 gold badges41 silver badges78 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
user109923user109923
152 bronze badges
152 bronze badges
$begingroup$
You're integrating with dE, not dr, on the left hand side, so the limits of integration can't be the same.
$endgroup$
– DanDan0101
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good point. I guess the limits of integration should be the electric field at point $r=0$ and at point $r=R$? $int_E_x(0)^E_x(R) dE_x = E_x(R) - E_x(0)$ This still doesn't make sense to me.
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$ represents the field component at the point due to a ring.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
...and that $vecE=E_xhati$.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You're integrating with dE, not dr, on the left hand side, so the limits of integration can't be the same.
$endgroup$
– DanDan0101
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good point. I guess the limits of integration should be the electric field at point $r=0$ and at point $r=R$? $int_E_x(0)^E_x(R) dE_x = E_x(R) - E_x(0)$ This still doesn't make sense to me.
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$ represents the field component at the point due to a ring.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
...and that $vecE=E_xhati$.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You're integrating with dE, not dr, on the left hand side, so the limits of integration can't be the same.
$endgroup$
– DanDan0101
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
You're integrating with dE, not dr, on the left hand side, so the limits of integration can't be the same.
$endgroup$
– DanDan0101
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good point. I guess the limits of integration should be the electric field at point $r=0$ and at point $r=R$? $int_E_x(0)^E_x(R) dE_x = E_x(R) - E_x(0)$ This still doesn't make sense to me.
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good point. I guess the limits of integration should be the electric field at point $r=0$ and at point $r=R$? $int_E_x(0)^E_x(R) dE_x = E_x(R) - E_x(0)$ This still doesn't make sense to me.
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$ represents the field component at the point due to a ring.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$ represents the field component at the point due to a ring.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
...and that $vecE=E_xhati$.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
...and that $vecE=E_xhati$.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The left hand integral limits should be with respect to the field you get as you add up the contributions to the field due to each charged ring. Therefore, it should start at $0$ and end with the final field. i.e.
$$int_0^E_xtext dE_x' = int_0^R1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Trivially, the integral on the left side is just the total field $E_x$.
Seeing some of your comments, you seemed to be confused as to what $r$ and $R$ actually represent. It looks like $x$ is the constant distance between the center of the disk and the point at which you are calculating the field at. $r$ is the radius of one of the rings of thickness $text dr$, and $R$ is the radius of the entire disk. Note that you are not determining the field at $r$, since $r$ is not a position in this case.
Your differential relation
$$text dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2=alpha(r),text dr$$
is essentially telling you each ring of radius $r$ and thickness $text dr$ contributes to the field an amount $alpha(r),text dr$. It makes sense that we just need to add up (integrate) all of these values (right integral) to determine the total field (left integral).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Isn't that a bit like assuming you already know how the answer is going to turn out?
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
As Aaron points out, they are adding contributions to the field from thin rings of charge located in the disk, each of radius r and thickness dr. Each little segment of a ring contributes at an angle from the x axis. For the x component you multiply by x/(x^2 + r^2)^(1/2). The charge in each ring depends on the charge density and area: σ(2 π r dr). The field drops off with the distance squared: (x^2 + r^2). The limits reflect the distribution of charged rings.
$endgroup$
– R.W. Bird
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 not at all. Just because I know that adding up all of the field contributions gives me the total field it doesn't mean I know what that field is. That is what the right side integral is for.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 Is there anything that is unclear to you?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$
represents the field component at the point due to a ring
$E_x(r)$ is a poor notation here since it certainly looks like the $x$ component of the electric field as a function of the radial coordinate $r$. Further, it is clear from the integral that $E_x = E_x(x)$.
Here, $dE_x$ or $dE_x|_r$ is the contribution to the total electric field (at coordinate $x$ on the $x$-axis) due an infinitesimal ring of charge between $r$ and $r + dr$.
If it helps, consider the approximation by finite rings of charge located between $r$ and $r + Delta r$. Let there be $N$ such rings such that
$$Delta r = fracRN$$
and
$$r_n = (n-1)Delta r$$
To find the total electric field due to the contributions $E_x,n$ from the $N$ rings making up the disk, we simply sum the contributions (linearity of electric field).
$$E_x = sum_n=1^NE_x,n$$
In the limit $Nrightarrowinfty$, the contributions become infinitesimal $E_x,nrightarrow dE_x|_r$, and the sum becomes an integral.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "151"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f499914%2ffield-of-a-uniformly-charged-disk-integration-question%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The left hand integral limits should be with respect to the field you get as you add up the contributions to the field due to each charged ring. Therefore, it should start at $0$ and end with the final field. i.e.
$$int_0^E_xtext dE_x' = int_0^R1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Trivially, the integral on the left side is just the total field $E_x$.
Seeing some of your comments, you seemed to be confused as to what $r$ and $R$ actually represent. It looks like $x$ is the constant distance between the center of the disk and the point at which you are calculating the field at. $r$ is the radius of one of the rings of thickness $text dr$, and $R$ is the radius of the entire disk. Note that you are not determining the field at $r$, since $r$ is not a position in this case.
Your differential relation
$$text dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2=alpha(r),text dr$$
is essentially telling you each ring of radius $r$ and thickness $text dr$ contributes to the field an amount $alpha(r),text dr$. It makes sense that we just need to add up (integrate) all of these values (right integral) to determine the total field (left integral).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Isn't that a bit like assuming you already know how the answer is going to turn out?
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
As Aaron points out, they are adding contributions to the field from thin rings of charge located in the disk, each of radius r and thickness dr. Each little segment of a ring contributes at an angle from the x axis. For the x component you multiply by x/(x^2 + r^2)^(1/2). The charge in each ring depends on the charge density and area: σ(2 π r dr). The field drops off with the distance squared: (x^2 + r^2). The limits reflect the distribution of charged rings.
$endgroup$
– R.W. Bird
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 not at all. Just because I know that adding up all of the field contributions gives me the total field it doesn't mean I know what that field is. That is what the right side integral is for.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 Is there anything that is unclear to you?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The left hand integral limits should be with respect to the field you get as you add up the contributions to the field due to each charged ring. Therefore, it should start at $0$ and end with the final field. i.e.
$$int_0^E_xtext dE_x' = int_0^R1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Trivially, the integral on the left side is just the total field $E_x$.
Seeing some of your comments, you seemed to be confused as to what $r$ and $R$ actually represent. It looks like $x$ is the constant distance between the center of the disk and the point at which you are calculating the field at. $r$ is the radius of one of the rings of thickness $text dr$, and $R$ is the radius of the entire disk. Note that you are not determining the field at $r$, since $r$ is not a position in this case.
Your differential relation
$$text dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2=alpha(r),text dr$$
is essentially telling you each ring of radius $r$ and thickness $text dr$ contributes to the field an amount $alpha(r),text dr$. It makes sense that we just need to add up (integrate) all of these values (right integral) to determine the total field (left integral).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Isn't that a bit like assuming you already know how the answer is going to turn out?
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
As Aaron points out, they are adding contributions to the field from thin rings of charge located in the disk, each of radius r and thickness dr. Each little segment of a ring contributes at an angle from the x axis. For the x component you multiply by x/(x^2 + r^2)^(1/2). The charge in each ring depends on the charge density and area: σ(2 π r dr). The field drops off with the distance squared: (x^2 + r^2). The limits reflect the distribution of charged rings.
$endgroup$
– R.W. Bird
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 not at all. Just because I know that adding up all of the field contributions gives me the total field it doesn't mean I know what that field is. That is what the right side integral is for.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 Is there anything that is unclear to you?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The left hand integral limits should be with respect to the field you get as you add up the contributions to the field due to each charged ring. Therefore, it should start at $0$ and end with the final field. i.e.
$$int_0^E_xtext dE_x' = int_0^R1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Trivially, the integral on the left side is just the total field $E_x$.
Seeing some of your comments, you seemed to be confused as to what $r$ and $R$ actually represent. It looks like $x$ is the constant distance between the center of the disk and the point at which you are calculating the field at. $r$ is the radius of one of the rings of thickness $text dr$, and $R$ is the radius of the entire disk. Note that you are not determining the field at $r$, since $r$ is not a position in this case.
Your differential relation
$$text dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2=alpha(r),text dr$$
is essentially telling you each ring of radius $r$ and thickness $text dr$ contributes to the field an amount $alpha(r),text dr$. It makes sense that we just need to add up (integrate) all of these values (right integral) to determine the total field (left integral).
$endgroup$
The left hand integral limits should be with respect to the field you get as you add up the contributions to the field due to each charged ring. Therefore, it should start at $0$ and end with the final field. i.e.
$$int_0^E_xtext dE_x' = int_0^R1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2$$
Trivially, the integral on the left side is just the total field $E_x$.
Seeing some of your comments, you seemed to be confused as to what $r$ and $R$ actually represent. It looks like $x$ is the constant distance between the center of the disk and the point at which you are calculating the field at. $r$ is the radius of one of the rings of thickness $text dr$, and $R$ is the radius of the entire disk. Note that you are not determining the field at $r$, since $r$ is not a position in this case.
Your differential relation
$$text dE_x = 1 over 4piepsilon_02pisigma rx,text dr over (x^2+r^2)^3/2=alpha(r),text dr$$
is essentially telling you each ring of radius $r$ and thickness $text dr$ contributes to the field an amount $alpha(r),text dr$. It makes sense that we just need to add up (integrate) all of these values (right integral) to determine the total field (left integral).
edited 5 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Aaron StevensAaron Stevens
22.2k4 gold badges41 silver badges78 bronze badges
22.2k4 gold badges41 silver badges78 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Isn't that a bit like assuming you already know how the answer is going to turn out?
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
As Aaron points out, they are adding contributions to the field from thin rings of charge located in the disk, each of radius r and thickness dr. Each little segment of a ring contributes at an angle from the x axis. For the x component you multiply by x/(x^2 + r^2)^(1/2). The charge in each ring depends on the charge density and area: σ(2 π r dr). The field drops off with the distance squared: (x^2 + r^2). The limits reflect the distribution of charged rings.
$endgroup$
– R.W. Bird
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 not at all. Just because I know that adding up all of the field contributions gives me the total field it doesn't mean I know what that field is. That is what the right side integral is for.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 Is there anything that is unclear to you?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Isn't that a bit like assuming you already know how the answer is going to turn out?
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
As Aaron points out, they are adding contributions to the field from thin rings of charge located in the disk, each of radius r and thickness dr. Each little segment of a ring contributes at an angle from the x axis. For the x component you multiply by x/(x^2 + r^2)^(1/2). The charge in each ring depends on the charge density and area: σ(2 π r dr). The field drops off with the distance squared: (x^2 + r^2). The limits reflect the distribution of charged rings.
$endgroup$
– R.W. Bird
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 not at all. Just because I know that adding up all of the field contributions gives me the total field it doesn't mean I know what that field is. That is what the right side integral is for.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 Is there anything that is unclear to you?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't that a bit like assuming you already know how the answer is going to turn out?
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't that a bit like assuming you already know how the answer is going to turn out?
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
As Aaron points out, they are adding contributions to the field from thin rings of charge located in the disk, each of radius r and thickness dr. Each little segment of a ring contributes at an angle from the x axis. For the x component you multiply by x/(x^2 + r^2)^(1/2). The charge in each ring depends on the charge density and area: σ(2 π r dr). The field drops off with the distance squared: (x^2 + r^2). The limits reflect the distribution of charged rings.
$endgroup$
– R.W. Bird
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
As Aaron points out, they are adding contributions to the field from thin rings of charge located in the disk, each of radius r and thickness dr. Each little segment of a ring contributes at an angle from the x axis. For the x component you multiply by x/(x^2 + r^2)^(1/2). The charge in each ring depends on the charge density and area: σ(2 π r dr). The field drops off with the distance squared: (x^2 + r^2). The limits reflect the distribution of charged rings.
$endgroup$
– R.W. Bird
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 not at all. Just because I know that adding up all of the field contributions gives me the total field it doesn't mean I know what that field is. That is what the right side integral is for.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 not at all. Just because I know that adding up all of the field contributions gives me the total field it doesn't mean I know what that field is. That is what the right side integral is for.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 Is there anything that is unclear to you?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user109923 Is there anything that is unclear to you?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$
represents the field component at the point due to a ring
$E_x(r)$ is a poor notation here since it certainly looks like the $x$ component of the electric field as a function of the radial coordinate $r$. Further, it is clear from the integral that $E_x = E_x(x)$.
Here, $dE_x$ or $dE_x|_r$ is the contribution to the total electric field (at coordinate $x$ on the $x$-axis) due an infinitesimal ring of charge between $r$ and $r + dr$.
If it helps, consider the approximation by finite rings of charge located between $r$ and $r + Delta r$. Let there be $N$ such rings such that
$$Delta r = fracRN$$
and
$$r_n = (n-1)Delta r$$
To find the total electric field due to the contributions $E_x,n$ from the $N$ rings making up the disk, we simply sum the contributions (linearity of electric field).
$$E_x = sum_n=1^NE_x,n$$
In the limit $Nrightarrowinfty$, the contributions become infinitesimal $E_x,nrightarrow dE_x|_r$, and the sum becomes an integral.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$
represents the field component at the point due to a ring
$E_x(r)$ is a poor notation here since it certainly looks like the $x$ component of the electric field as a function of the radial coordinate $r$. Further, it is clear from the integral that $E_x = E_x(x)$.
Here, $dE_x$ or $dE_x|_r$ is the contribution to the total electric field (at coordinate $x$ on the $x$-axis) due an infinitesimal ring of charge between $r$ and $r + dr$.
If it helps, consider the approximation by finite rings of charge located between $r$ and $r + Delta r$. Let there be $N$ such rings such that
$$Delta r = fracRN$$
and
$$r_n = (n-1)Delta r$$
To find the total electric field due to the contributions $E_x,n$ from the $N$ rings making up the disk, we simply sum the contributions (linearity of electric field).
$$E_x = sum_n=1^NE_x,n$$
In the limit $Nrightarrowinfty$, the contributions become infinitesimal $E_x,nrightarrow dE_x|_r$, and the sum becomes an integral.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$
represents the field component at the point due to a ring
$E_x(r)$ is a poor notation here since it certainly looks like the $x$ component of the electric field as a function of the radial coordinate $r$. Further, it is clear from the integral that $E_x = E_x(x)$.
Here, $dE_x$ or $dE_x|_r$ is the contribution to the total electric field (at coordinate $x$ on the $x$-axis) due an infinitesimal ring of charge between $r$ and $r + dr$.
If it helps, consider the approximation by finite rings of charge located between $r$ and $r + Delta r$. Let there be $N$ such rings such that
$$Delta r = fracRN$$
and
$$r_n = (n-1)Delta r$$
To find the total electric field due to the contributions $E_x,n$ from the $N$ rings making up the disk, we simply sum the contributions (linearity of electric field).
$$E_x = sum_n=1^NE_x,n$$
In the limit $Nrightarrowinfty$, the contributions become infinitesimal $E_x,nrightarrow dE_x|_r$, and the sum becomes an integral.
$endgroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$
represents the field component at the point due to a ring
$E_x(r)$ is a poor notation here since it certainly looks like the $x$ component of the electric field as a function of the radial coordinate $r$. Further, it is clear from the integral that $E_x = E_x(x)$.
Here, $dE_x$ or $dE_x|_r$ is the contribution to the total electric field (at coordinate $x$ on the $x$-axis) due an infinitesimal ring of charge between $r$ and $r + dr$.
If it helps, consider the approximation by finite rings of charge located between $r$ and $r + Delta r$. Let there be $N$ such rings such that
$$Delta r = fracRN$$
and
$$r_n = (n-1)Delta r$$
To find the total electric field due to the contributions $E_x,n$ from the $N$ rings making up the disk, we simply sum the contributions (linearity of electric field).
$$E_x = sum_n=1^NE_x,n$$
In the limit $Nrightarrowinfty$, the contributions become infinitesimal $E_x,nrightarrow dE_x|_r$, and the sum becomes an integral.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
Alfred CentauriAlfred Centauri
51.1k3 gold badges54 silver badges166 bronze badges
51.1k3 gold badges54 silver badges166 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Physics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f499914%2ffield-of-a-uniformly-charged-disk-integration-question%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
You're integrating with dE, not dr, on the left hand side, so the limits of integration can't be the same.
$endgroup$
– DanDan0101
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good point. I guess the limits of integration should be the electric field at point $r=0$ and at point $r=R$? $int_E_x(0)^E_x(R) dE_x = E_x(R) - E_x(0)$ This still doesn't make sense to me.
$endgroup$
– user109923
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
But then what does $E_x(r)$ represent? The problem only said that $dE_x$ represents the field component at the point due to a ring.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
...and that $vecE=E_xhati$.
$endgroup$
– user109923
8 hours ago