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P-MOSFET failing


Why is SMPS controller IC failing?Backup battery switch with MOSFET?Mosfet Snubber with Inductive LoadBurnt MOSFET in the following circuit. Why?MOSFET Without Gate Resistor is FailingProblem with mosfet in H-bridgeWhy does the signal MOSFET keep failing in this circuit?N-mosfet low-side switch being turned on with no direct gate drive signalMOSFET failing testLogic Circuit Completely Failing (Cue Lights System)






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








2












$begingroup$


Updated schematic



I am using this solution to drive a large (huge) relay on a boat.



The system works well for months on end, but eventually the MOSFET (T2) dies suddenly.



EDIT: I have modified the schematic to include the modification suggested by Jack Creasey and others (circled in RED, not part of original design), as well as a further explanation as to how the system is wired to battery ground to illustrate why the typical snubber diode may be inadequate (it dissipates back-EMF to battery ground through a 4 ohm wire).
Simulations suggest that with this cable resistance back-EMF may push LOCAL_GND down to -20V with respect to BATTERY_GND, the controller would see 34V and fry.



I am hoping to find suggestions on the correct way to protect the MOSFET in this situation.



I am not able to make modifications to anything outside of the gray box and no strong GND connection is available in this part of the system.



12VDC is battery voltage and may vary depending on load, generator output, other loads switching, etc. Typically 11-14.4 volts.



The relay draws approximately 6A from PULSE_OUT but I have never had access to the actual relay to perform measurements on its inductance or behavior when switched on or off.



Because the relay is bistable and requires only a pulse to turn on, PULSE_TTL is driven with 200mS pulses at 3.3V. These pulses are typically very infrequent but can occur every 5 seconds worst case. Another identical circuit drives the turn off coil in a similar fashion.



Best regards










share|improve this question









New contributor



Ronald McFüglethorn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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$endgroup$


















    2












    $begingroup$


    Updated schematic



    I am using this solution to drive a large (huge) relay on a boat.



    The system works well for months on end, but eventually the MOSFET (T2) dies suddenly.



    EDIT: I have modified the schematic to include the modification suggested by Jack Creasey and others (circled in RED, not part of original design), as well as a further explanation as to how the system is wired to battery ground to illustrate why the typical snubber diode may be inadequate (it dissipates back-EMF to battery ground through a 4 ohm wire).
    Simulations suggest that with this cable resistance back-EMF may push LOCAL_GND down to -20V with respect to BATTERY_GND, the controller would see 34V and fry.



    I am hoping to find suggestions on the correct way to protect the MOSFET in this situation.



    I am not able to make modifications to anything outside of the gray box and no strong GND connection is available in this part of the system.



    12VDC is battery voltage and may vary depending on load, generator output, other loads switching, etc. Typically 11-14.4 volts.



    The relay draws approximately 6A from PULSE_OUT but I have never had access to the actual relay to perform measurements on its inductance or behavior when switched on or off.



    Because the relay is bistable and requires only a pulse to turn on, PULSE_TTL is driven with 200mS pulses at 3.3V. These pulses are typically very infrequent but can occur every 5 seconds worst case. Another identical circuit drives the turn off coil in a similar fashion.



    Best regards










    share|improve this question









    New contributor



    Ronald McFüglethorn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      Updated schematic



      I am using this solution to drive a large (huge) relay on a boat.



      The system works well for months on end, but eventually the MOSFET (T2) dies suddenly.



      EDIT: I have modified the schematic to include the modification suggested by Jack Creasey and others (circled in RED, not part of original design), as well as a further explanation as to how the system is wired to battery ground to illustrate why the typical snubber diode may be inadequate (it dissipates back-EMF to battery ground through a 4 ohm wire).
      Simulations suggest that with this cable resistance back-EMF may push LOCAL_GND down to -20V with respect to BATTERY_GND, the controller would see 34V and fry.



      I am hoping to find suggestions on the correct way to protect the MOSFET in this situation.



      I am not able to make modifications to anything outside of the gray box and no strong GND connection is available in this part of the system.



      12VDC is battery voltage and may vary depending on load, generator output, other loads switching, etc. Typically 11-14.4 volts.



      The relay draws approximately 6A from PULSE_OUT but I have never had access to the actual relay to perform measurements on its inductance or behavior when switched on or off.



      Because the relay is bistable and requires only a pulse to turn on, PULSE_TTL is driven with 200mS pulses at 3.3V. These pulses are typically very infrequent but can occur every 5 seconds worst case. Another identical circuit drives the turn off coil in a similar fashion.



      Best regards










      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Ronald McFüglethorn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      $endgroup$




      Updated schematic



      I am using this solution to drive a large (huge) relay on a boat.



      The system works well for months on end, but eventually the MOSFET (T2) dies suddenly.



      EDIT: I have modified the schematic to include the modification suggested by Jack Creasey and others (circled in RED, not part of original design), as well as a further explanation as to how the system is wired to battery ground to illustrate why the typical snubber diode may be inadequate (it dissipates back-EMF to battery ground through a 4 ohm wire).
      Simulations suggest that with this cable resistance back-EMF may push LOCAL_GND down to -20V with respect to BATTERY_GND, the controller would see 34V and fry.



      I am hoping to find suggestions on the correct way to protect the MOSFET in this situation.



      I am not able to make modifications to anything outside of the gray box and no strong GND connection is available in this part of the system.



      12VDC is battery voltage and may vary depending on load, generator output, other loads switching, etc. Typically 11-14.4 volts.



      The relay draws approximately 6A from PULSE_OUT but I have never had access to the actual relay to perform measurements on its inductance or behavior when switched on or off.



      Because the relay is bistable and requires only a pulse to turn on, PULSE_TTL is driven with 200mS pulses at 3.3V. These pulses are typically very infrequent but can occur every 5 seconds worst case. Another identical circuit drives the turn off coil in a similar fashion.



      Best regards







      mosfet inductive failure






      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Ronald McFüglethorn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.










      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Ronald McFüglethorn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 5 hours ago







      Ronald McFüglethorn













      New contributor



      Ronald McFüglethorn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      asked 8 hours ago









      Ronald McFüglethornRonald McFüglethorn

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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

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          6












          $begingroup$

          The answer is simple, you need a diode across the output wire to the relay.



          When you turn the current to the relay OFF you will get a large negative back-emf spike on the Drain of the FET (IRFR5305). The spike will likely far exceed the 55V rating for the FET, and although the FET will avalanche this may not provide the required protection depending on the energy stored in the relay coil.



          Connect the diode like this:





          schematic





          simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



          While I've shown a BAT54 here, almost any power diode will do, even a 1N4001 would be more than adequate.



          Update:



          Your update to the question posed what problems long thin (small gauge) wire to the realy would pose.

          I would suggest that there is no problem.



          If the wiring is sufficient to carry a peak current of 6A to drive the relay, then current at turn OFF cannot be higher than 6A, and will fall exponentially after the OFF drive transition.



          If you are really concerned about your configuration then I'd suggest the following configuration where the FET is kept on to dissipate the inductive energy.





          schematic





          simulate this circuit



          enter image description here



          The waveforms would look like the above, but I just used a dummy L limiting to 6A to demonstrate.



          In the schematic above, the components in the box result in the FET being turned on at about 34V back-emf from the relay. This is all reference to the +12V supply, so is not impacted in any way by the wiring. Allowing the back-emf to develop to 34V means the FET never sees anything above 44V (12V + 34V) so comfortably within its 55V rating.

          And before anyone asks ….D2 does not clamp during the back-emf, the voltage on the gate will be just enough ( V(GS) ) to cause M1 to conduct sufficiently to clamp the Drain voltage.



          NOTE: Your base resistor to Q1 is too high. You should lower this to about 2700 Ohms.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you so much for answering! I understand how back-EMF works (and I typically do put in this diode) but in this case I did not for two reasons: 1) i thought the MOSFET avalanche would take care of the problem better than a diode - is this completely wrong in this case? 2) I do not have access to a strong GND connection at the MOSFET device side (0.5mm²/AWG20 for GND vs 2.5/AWG14 for 12V) Is there other ways of safely dissipating back-EMF into +12V such as a zener diode gate to drain, or should I not worry about the wire guage?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Forget wire gauge ….put the diode right at your FET or if it's easier right across the relay. There is some technical difference in placement but it will not impact you.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I am not able to modify anything outside of the device, so putting it on the relay side is out of the question. Of course I would put it in right next to the FET, but this means all of the back-emf energy will be dissipated to GND through a rather thin and long wire. If the resistance/inductance of this wire is too high, the diode will not be very effective is what I'm thinking. It would be as if D1 (your schematic) was connected to GND through about 4 ohm worst case - will this really be enough to add significant protection?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            The long wire makes no real difference.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I have updated my original question to reflect exactly where the weak GND connection is present and how it affects the snubber diode. Perhaps you are saying that 4 ohms is simply insignificant in this case?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago


















          0












          $begingroup$

          When you switch off an inductive load (your large relay) you may well get a large voltage spike. This will eventually damage the transistor if not immediately. You do not appear to have included a snubber network across the MOSFET (12VDC to PULSE_OUT) which will protect it. I suggest you read the appropriate Wikipedia article as a start, then google "Snubber network" for more detailed articles and design notes.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for answering! I understand back-EMF and snubber diodes and I typically include these. I had ignorantly thought/hoped that in this case the MOSFET would avalanche and adequately handle the back-EMF without the addition of an external diode, but I think you are correct that I need stronger protection. I have updated my question to include your suggestion as well an an explanation on how GND is tied to the system, which I believe presents a problem for the typical snubber solution. I would love your take on this.
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago













          Your Answer






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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

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          active

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          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          6












          $begingroup$

          The answer is simple, you need a diode across the output wire to the relay.



          When you turn the current to the relay OFF you will get a large negative back-emf spike on the Drain of the FET (IRFR5305). The spike will likely far exceed the 55V rating for the FET, and although the FET will avalanche this may not provide the required protection depending on the energy stored in the relay coil.



          Connect the diode like this:





          schematic





          simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



          While I've shown a BAT54 here, almost any power diode will do, even a 1N4001 would be more than adequate.



          Update:



          Your update to the question posed what problems long thin (small gauge) wire to the realy would pose.

          I would suggest that there is no problem.



          If the wiring is sufficient to carry a peak current of 6A to drive the relay, then current at turn OFF cannot be higher than 6A, and will fall exponentially after the OFF drive transition.



          If you are really concerned about your configuration then I'd suggest the following configuration where the FET is kept on to dissipate the inductive energy.





          schematic





          simulate this circuit



          enter image description here



          The waveforms would look like the above, but I just used a dummy L limiting to 6A to demonstrate.



          In the schematic above, the components in the box result in the FET being turned on at about 34V back-emf from the relay. This is all reference to the +12V supply, so is not impacted in any way by the wiring. Allowing the back-emf to develop to 34V means the FET never sees anything above 44V (12V + 34V) so comfortably within its 55V rating.

          And before anyone asks ….D2 does not clamp during the back-emf, the voltage on the gate will be just enough ( V(GS) ) to cause M1 to conduct sufficiently to clamp the Drain voltage.



          NOTE: Your base resistor to Q1 is too high. You should lower this to about 2700 Ohms.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you so much for answering! I understand how back-EMF works (and I typically do put in this diode) but in this case I did not for two reasons: 1) i thought the MOSFET avalanche would take care of the problem better than a diode - is this completely wrong in this case? 2) I do not have access to a strong GND connection at the MOSFET device side (0.5mm²/AWG20 for GND vs 2.5/AWG14 for 12V) Is there other ways of safely dissipating back-EMF into +12V such as a zener diode gate to drain, or should I not worry about the wire guage?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Forget wire gauge ….put the diode right at your FET or if it's easier right across the relay. There is some technical difference in placement but it will not impact you.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I am not able to modify anything outside of the device, so putting it on the relay side is out of the question. Of course I would put it in right next to the FET, but this means all of the back-emf energy will be dissipated to GND through a rather thin and long wire. If the resistance/inductance of this wire is too high, the diode will not be very effective is what I'm thinking. It would be as if D1 (your schematic) was connected to GND through about 4 ohm worst case - will this really be enough to add significant protection?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            The long wire makes no real difference.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I have updated my original question to reflect exactly where the weak GND connection is present and how it affects the snubber diode. Perhaps you are saying that 4 ohms is simply insignificant in this case?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago















          6












          $begingroup$

          The answer is simple, you need a diode across the output wire to the relay.



          When you turn the current to the relay OFF you will get a large negative back-emf spike on the Drain of the FET (IRFR5305). The spike will likely far exceed the 55V rating for the FET, and although the FET will avalanche this may not provide the required protection depending on the energy stored in the relay coil.



          Connect the diode like this:





          schematic





          simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



          While I've shown a BAT54 here, almost any power diode will do, even a 1N4001 would be more than adequate.



          Update:



          Your update to the question posed what problems long thin (small gauge) wire to the realy would pose.

          I would suggest that there is no problem.



          If the wiring is sufficient to carry a peak current of 6A to drive the relay, then current at turn OFF cannot be higher than 6A, and will fall exponentially after the OFF drive transition.



          If you are really concerned about your configuration then I'd suggest the following configuration where the FET is kept on to dissipate the inductive energy.





          schematic





          simulate this circuit



          enter image description here



          The waveforms would look like the above, but I just used a dummy L limiting to 6A to demonstrate.



          In the schematic above, the components in the box result in the FET being turned on at about 34V back-emf from the relay. This is all reference to the +12V supply, so is not impacted in any way by the wiring. Allowing the back-emf to develop to 34V means the FET never sees anything above 44V (12V + 34V) so comfortably within its 55V rating.

          And before anyone asks ….D2 does not clamp during the back-emf, the voltage on the gate will be just enough ( V(GS) ) to cause M1 to conduct sufficiently to clamp the Drain voltage.



          NOTE: Your base resistor to Q1 is too high. You should lower this to about 2700 Ohms.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you so much for answering! I understand how back-EMF works (and I typically do put in this diode) but in this case I did not for two reasons: 1) i thought the MOSFET avalanche would take care of the problem better than a diode - is this completely wrong in this case? 2) I do not have access to a strong GND connection at the MOSFET device side (0.5mm²/AWG20 for GND vs 2.5/AWG14 for 12V) Is there other ways of safely dissipating back-EMF into +12V such as a zener diode gate to drain, or should I not worry about the wire guage?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Forget wire gauge ….put the diode right at your FET or if it's easier right across the relay. There is some technical difference in placement but it will not impact you.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I am not able to modify anything outside of the device, so putting it on the relay side is out of the question. Of course I would put it in right next to the FET, but this means all of the back-emf energy will be dissipated to GND through a rather thin and long wire. If the resistance/inductance of this wire is too high, the diode will not be very effective is what I'm thinking. It would be as if D1 (your schematic) was connected to GND through about 4 ohm worst case - will this really be enough to add significant protection?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            The long wire makes no real difference.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I have updated my original question to reflect exactly where the weak GND connection is present and how it affects the snubber diode. Perhaps you are saying that 4 ohms is simply insignificant in this case?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago













          6












          6








          6





          $begingroup$

          The answer is simple, you need a diode across the output wire to the relay.



          When you turn the current to the relay OFF you will get a large negative back-emf spike on the Drain of the FET (IRFR5305). The spike will likely far exceed the 55V rating for the FET, and although the FET will avalanche this may not provide the required protection depending on the energy stored in the relay coil.



          Connect the diode like this:





          schematic





          simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



          While I've shown a BAT54 here, almost any power diode will do, even a 1N4001 would be more than adequate.



          Update:



          Your update to the question posed what problems long thin (small gauge) wire to the realy would pose.

          I would suggest that there is no problem.



          If the wiring is sufficient to carry a peak current of 6A to drive the relay, then current at turn OFF cannot be higher than 6A, and will fall exponentially after the OFF drive transition.



          If you are really concerned about your configuration then I'd suggest the following configuration where the FET is kept on to dissipate the inductive energy.





          schematic





          simulate this circuit



          enter image description here



          The waveforms would look like the above, but I just used a dummy L limiting to 6A to demonstrate.



          In the schematic above, the components in the box result in the FET being turned on at about 34V back-emf from the relay. This is all reference to the +12V supply, so is not impacted in any way by the wiring. Allowing the back-emf to develop to 34V means the FET never sees anything above 44V (12V + 34V) so comfortably within its 55V rating.

          And before anyone asks ….D2 does not clamp during the back-emf, the voltage on the gate will be just enough ( V(GS) ) to cause M1 to conduct sufficiently to clamp the Drain voltage.



          NOTE: Your base resistor to Q1 is too high. You should lower this to about 2700 Ohms.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          The answer is simple, you need a diode across the output wire to the relay.



          When you turn the current to the relay OFF you will get a large negative back-emf spike on the Drain of the FET (IRFR5305). The spike will likely far exceed the 55V rating for the FET, and although the FET will avalanche this may not provide the required protection depending on the energy stored in the relay coil.



          Connect the diode like this:





          schematic





          simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



          While I've shown a BAT54 here, almost any power diode will do, even a 1N4001 would be more than adequate.



          Update:



          Your update to the question posed what problems long thin (small gauge) wire to the realy would pose.

          I would suggest that there is no problem.



          If the wiring is sufficient to carry a peak current of 6A to drive the relay, then current at turn OFF cannot be higher than 6A, and will fall exponentially after the OFF drive transition.



          If you are really concerned about your configuration then I'd suggest the following configuration where the FET is kept on to dissipate the inductive energy.





          schematic





          simulate this circuit



          enter image description here



          The waveforms would look like the above, but I just used a dummy L limiting to 6A to demonstrate.



          In the schematic above, the components in the box result in the FET being turned on at about 34V back-emf from the relay. This is all reference to the +12V supply, so is not impacted in any way by the wiring. Allowing the back-emf to develop to 34V means the FET never sees anything above 44V (12V + 34V) so comfortably within its 55V rating.

          And before anyone asks ….D2 does not clamp during the back-emf, the voltage on the gate will be just enough ( V(GS) ) to cause M1 to conduct sufficiently to clamp the Drain voltage.



          NOTE: Your base resistor to Q1 is too high. You should lower this to about 2700 Ohms.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 4 hours ago

























          answered 8 hours ago









          Jack CreaseyJack Creasey

          17.3k2 gold badges8 silver badges24 bronze badges




          17.3k2 gold badges8 silver badges24 bronze badges











          • $begingroup$
            Thank you so much for answering! I understand how back-EMF works (and I typically do put in this diode) but in this case I did not for two reasons: 1) i thought the MOSFET avalanche would take care of the problem better than a diode - is this completely wrong in this case? 2) I do not have access to a strong GND connection at the MOSFET device side (0.5mm²/AWG20 for GND vs 2.5/AWG14 for 12V) Is there other ways of safely dissipating back-EMF into +12V such as a zener diode gate to drain, or should I not worry about the wire guage?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Forget wire gauge ….put the diode right at your FET or if it's easier right across the relay. There is some technical difference in placement but it will not impact you.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I am not able to modify anything outside of the device, so putting it on the relay side is out of the question. Of course I would put it in right next to the FET, but this means all of the back-emf energy will be dissipated to GND through a rather thin and long wire. If the resistance/inductance of this wire is too high, the diode will not be very effective is what I'm thinking. It would be as if D1 (your schematic) was connected to GND through about 4 ohm worst case - will this really be enough to add significant protection?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            The long wire makes no real difference.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I have updated my original question to reflect exactly where the weak GND connection is present and how it affects the snubber diode. Perhaps you are saying that 4 ohms is simply insignificant in this case?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Thank you so much for answering! I understand how back-EMF works (and I typically do put in this diode) but in this case I did not for two reasons: 1) i thought the MOSFET avalanche would take care of the problem better than a diode - is this completely wrong in this case? 2) I do not have access to a strong GND connection at the MOSFET device side (0.5mm²/AWG20 for GND vs 2.5/AWG14 for 12V) Is there other ways of safely dissipating back-EMF into +12V such as a zener diode gate to drain, or should I not worry about the wire guage?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Forget wire gauge ….put the diode right at your FET or if it's easier right across the relay. There is some technical difference in placement but it will not impact you.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I am not able to modify anything outside of the device, so putting it on the relay side is out of the question. Of course I would put it in right next to the FET, but this means all of the back-emf energy will be dissipated to GND through a rather thin and long wire. If the resistance/inductance of this wire is too high, the diode will not be very effective is what I'm thinking. It would be as if D1 (your schematic) was connected to GND through about 4 ohm worst case - will this really be enough to add significant protection?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            The long wire makes no real difference.
            $endgroup$
            – Jack Creasey
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I have updated my original question to reflect exactly where the weak GND connection is present and how it affects the snubber diode. Perhaps you are saying that 4 ohms is simply insignificant in this case?
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago















          $begingroup$
          Thank you so much for answering! I understand how back-EMF works (and I typically do put in this diode) but in this case I did not for two reasons: 1) i thought the MOSFET avalanche would take care of the problem better than a diode - is this completely wrong in this case? 2) I do not have access to a strong GND connection at the MOSFET device side (0.5mm²/AWG20 for GND vs 2.5/AWG14 for 12V) Is there other ways of safely dissipating back-EMF into +12V such as a zener diode gate to drain, or should I not worry about the wire guage?
          $endgroup$
          – Ronald McFüglethorn
          7 hours ago





          $begingroup$
          Thank you so much for answering! I understand how back-EMF works (and I typically do put in this diode) but in this case I did not for two reasons: 1) i thought the MOSFET avalanche would take care of the problem better than a diode - is this completely wrong in this case? 2) I do not have access to a strong GND connection at the MOSFET device side (0.5mm²/AWG20 for GND vs 2.5/AWG14 for 12V) Is there other ways of safely dissipating back-EMF into +12V such as a zener diode gate to drain, or should I not worry about the wire guage?
          $endgroup$
          – Ronald McFüglethorn
          7 hours ago













          $begingroup$
          Forget wire gauge ….put the diode right at your FET or if it's easier right across the relay. There is some technical difference in placement but it will not impact you.
          $endgroup$
          – Jack Creasey
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Forget wire gauge ….put the diode right at your FET or if it's easier right across the relay. There is some technical difference in placement but it will not impact you.
          $endgroup$
          – Jack Creasey
          7 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          I am not able to modify anything outside of the device, so putting it on the relay side is out of the question. Of course I would put it in right next to the FET, but this means all of the back-emf energy will be dissipated to GND through a rather thin and long wire. If the resistance/inductance of this wire is too high, the diode will not be very effective is what I'm thinking. It would be as if D1 (your schematic) was connected to GND through about 4 ohm worst case - will this really be enough to add significant protection?
          $endgroup$
          – Ronald McFüglethorn
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          I am not able to modify anything outside of the device, so putting it on the relay side is out of the question. Of course I would put it in right next to the FET, but this means all of the back-emf energy will be dissipated to GND through a rather thin and long wire. If the resistance/inductance of this wire is too high, the diode will not be very effective is what I'm thinking. It would be as if D1 (your schematic) was connected to GND through about 4 ohm worst case - will this really be enough to add significant protection?
          $endgroup$
          – Ronald McFüglethorn
          7 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          The long wire makes no real difference.
          $endgroup$
          – Jack Creasey
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          The long wire makes no real difference.
          $endgroup$
          – Jack Creasey
          7 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          I have updated my original question to reflect exactly where the weak GND connection is present and how it affects the snubber diode. Perhaps you are saying that 4 ohms is simply insignificant in this case?
          $endgroup$
          – Ronald McFüglethorn
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          I have updated my original question to reflect exactly where the weak GND connection is present and how it affects the snubber diode. Perhaps you are saying that 4 ohms is simply insignificant in this case?
          $endgroup$
          – Ronald McFüglethorn
          6 hours ago













          0












          $begingroup$

          When you switch off an inductive load (your large relay) you may well get a large voltage spike. This will eventually damage the transistor if not immediately. You do not appear to have included a snubber network across the MOSFET (12VDC to PULSE_OUT) which will protect it. I suggest you read the appropriate Wikipedia article as a start, then google "Snubber network" for more detailed articles and design notes.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for answering! I understand back-EMF and snubber diodes and I typically include these. I had ignorantly thought/hoped that in this case the MOSFET would avalanche and adequately handle the back-EMF without the addition of an external diode, but I think you are correct that I need stronger protection. I have updated my question to include your suggestion as well an an explanation on how GND is tied to the system, which I believe presents a problem for the typical snubber solution. I would love your take on this.
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago















          0












          $begingroup$

          When you switch off an inductive load (your large relay) you may well get a large voltage spike. This will eventually damage the transistor if not immediately. You do not appear to have included a snubber network across the MOSFET (12VDC to PULSE_OUT) which will protect it. I suggest you read the appropriate Wikipedia article as a start, then google "Snubber network" for more detailed articles and design notes.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for answering! I understand back-EMF and snubber diodes and I typically include these. I had ignorantly thought/hoped that in this case the MOSFET would avalanche and adequately handle the back-EMF without the addition of an external diode, but I think you are correct that I need stronger protection. I have updated my question to include your suggestion as well an an explanation on how GND is tied to the system, which I believe presents a problem for the typical snubber solution. I would love your take on this.
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago













          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          When you switch off an inductive load (your large relay) you may well get a large voltage spike. This will eventually damage the transistor if not immediately. You do not appear to have included a snubber network across the MOSFET (12VDC to PULSE_OUT) which will protect it. I suggest you read the appropriate Wikipedia article as a start, then google "Snubber network" for more detailed articles and design notes.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          When you switch off an inductive load (your large relay) you may well get a large voltage spike. This will eventually damage the transistor if not immediately. You do not appear to have included a snubber network across the MOSFET (12VDC to PULSE_OUT) which will protect it. I suggest you read the appropriate Wikipedia article as a start, then google "Snubber network" for more detailed articles and design notes.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 8 hours ago









          Peter JenningsPeter Jennings

          1845 bronze badges




          1845 bronze badges











          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for answering! I understand back-EMF and snubber diodes and I typically include these. I had ignorantly thought/hoped that in this case the MOSFET would avalanche and adequately handle the back-EMF without the addition of an external diode, but I think you are correct that I need stronger protection. I have updated my question to include your suggestion as well an an explanation on how GND is tied to the system, which I believe presents a problem for the typical snubber solution. I would love your take on this.
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for answering! I understand back-EMF and snubber diodes and I typically include these. I had ignorantly thought/hoped that in this case the MOSFET would avalanche and adequately handle the back-EMF without the addition of an external diode, but I think you are correct that I need stronger protection. I have updated my question to include your suggestion as well an an explanation on how GND is tied to the system, which I believe presents a problem for the typical snubber solution. I would love your take on this.
            $endgroup$
            – Ronald McFüglethorn
            6 hours ago















          $begingroup$
          Thank you for answering! I understand back-EMF and snubber diodes and I typically include these. I had ignorantly thought/hoped that in this case the MOSFET would avalanche and adequately handle the back-EMF without the addition of an external diode, but I think you are correct that I need stronger protection. I have updated my question to include your suggestion as well an an explanation on how GND is tied to the system, which I believe presents a problem for the typical snubber solution. I would love your take on this.
          $endgroup$
          – Ronald McFüglethorn
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Thank you for answering! I understand back-EMF and snubber diodes and I typically include these. I had ignorantly thought/hoped that in this case the MOSFET would avalanche and adequately handle the back-EMF without the addition of an external diode, but I think you are correct that I need stronger protection. I have updated my question to include your suggestion as well an an explanation on how GND is tied to the system, which I believe presents a problem for the typical snubber solution. I would love your take on this.
          $endgroup$
          – Ronald McFüglethorn
          6 hours ago










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