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How long could a human survive completely without the immune system?
Could someone survive if all the DNA inside his cells got damaged? For how long?How long can a human reasonably remain unconscious and alive - given medieval technologyInducing cancer to enemy politicians, spies, world-leadersHow long could someone survive in “Sky cell” like prison?A cure, a vaccine, and one tricky diseaseIn a post apocalyptic world, how long would hospital equipment survive?How long a human being could live with stem cells?Is it possible to build weapons that shield the RF frequencies pre-cogs use to send their memories back in time?
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$begingroup$
If the immune system of a healthy human just shut down completely and instantly (magic, nanotechnology, whatever), and after a certain time period it went back to normal, how much time without the immune system would be survivable?
There are real world examples of people with severely damaged immune system, but I don't know how total it was.
So, basically:
What length of time would be immediately or almost immediately fatal? (so even restoring it completely would not save from a quick death)
What length of time would be survivable but lead to long term (or permanent) consequences?
What length of time would be completely healable afterwards, even without modern medical treatment?
What length of time would be unnoticed or almost unnoticed?
Assume the victim of this curse is not doing anything dangerous or unsanitary during its effects. (so no cuts, bruises, being in an unsanitary environment, etc.)
Of course, as we have no real world data to measure it (AIDS-patients don't go from 100% to 0% in an instant), a rough Fermi estimation would be enough, but even for that I have no idea where and how to start.
science-based medicine
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
If the immune system of a healthy human just shut down completely and instantly (magic, nanotechnology, whatever), and after a certain time period it went back to normal, how much time without the immune system would be survivable?
There are real world examples of people with severely damaged immune system, but I don't know how total it was.
So, basically:
What length of time would be immediately or almost immediately fatal? (so even restoring it completely would not save from a quick death)
What length of time would be survivable but lead to long term (or permanent) consequences?
What length of time would be completely healable afterwards, even without modern medical treatment?
What length of time would be unnoticed or almost unnoticed?
Assume the victim of this curse is not doing anything dangerous or unsanitary during its effects. (so no cuts, bruises, being in an unsanitary environment, etc.)
Of course, as we have no real world data to measure it (AIDS-patients don't go from 100% to 0% in an instant), a rough Fermi estimation would be enough, but even for that I have no idea where and how to start.
science-based medicine
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Without stating the environment or whether the person so afflicted is going to get any medical treatment, it's going to be difficult to say. Medieval Europe is a much different place to modern Europe, and even the life experience of the victim will make a big difference.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
If the immune system of a healthy human just shut down completely and instantly (magic, nanotechnology, whatever), and after a certain time period it went back to normal, how much time without the immune system would be survivable?
There are real world examples of people with severely damaged immune system, but I don't know how total it was.
So, basically:
What length of time would be immediately or almost immediately fatal? (so even restoring it completely would not save from a quick death)
What length of time would be survivable but lead to long term (or permanent) consequences?
What length of time would be completely healable afterwards, even without modern medical treatment?
What length of time would be unnoticed or almost unnoticed?
Assume the victim of this curse is not doing anything dangerous or unsanitary during its effects. (so no cuts, bruises, being in an unsanitary environment, etc.)
Of course, as we have no real world data to measure it (AIDS-patients don't go from 100% to 0% in an instant), a rough Fermi estimation would be enough, but even for that I have no idea where and how to start.
science-based medicine
$endgroup$
If the immune system of a healthy human just shut down completely and instantly (magic, nanotechnology, whatever), and after a certain time period it went back to normal, how much time without the immune system would be survivable?
There are real world examples of people with severely damaged immune system, but I don't know how total it was.
So, basically:
What length of time would be immediately or almost immediately fatal? (so even restoring it completely would not save from a quick death)
What length of time would be survivable but lead to long term (or permanent) consequences?
What length of time would be completely healable afterwards, even without modern medical treatment?
What length of time would be unnoticed or almost unnoticed?
Assume the victim of this curse is not doing anything dangerous or unsanitary during its effects. (so no cuts, bruises, being in an unsanitary environment, etc.)
Of course, as we have no real world data to measure it (AIDS-patients don't go from 100% to 0% in an instant), a rough Fermi estimation would be enough, but even for that I have no idea where and how to start.
science-based medicine
science-based medicine
edited 7 hours ago
vsz
asked 8 hours ago
vszvsz
7,2335 gold badges25 silver badges50 bronze badges
7,2335 gold badges25 silver badges50 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Without stating the environment or whether the person so afflicted is going to get any medical treatment, it's going to be difficult to say. Medieval Europe is a much different place to modern Europe, and even the life experience of the victim will make a big difference.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Without stating the environment or whether the person so afflicted is going to get any medical treatment, it's going to be difficult to say. Medieval Europe is a much different place to modern Europe, and even the life experience of the victim will make a big difference.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Without stating the environment or whether the person so afflicted is going to get any medical treatment, it's going to be difficult to say. Medieval Europe is a much different place to modern Europe, and even the life experience of the victim will make a big difference.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Without stating the environment or whether the person so afflicted is going to get any medical treatment, it's going to be difficult to say. Medieval Europe is a much different place to modern Europe, and even the life experience of the victim will make a big difference.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
In about 24-48 hours you'd start having skin condition from unchecked staphylococci and the like: eczema and erythrodermatitis. As soon as the skin barrier is broken, cellulitis and circulation problems will ensue, followed (since there's nothing to check the infection) by gangrene. I'd expect death from septic shock to occur inside of one week. Disabling will be severe within three days and pretty much complete inside of four or five.
So:
- 0 - 24 hours: no real effects except itching and rashes
- 24 - 48 hours: weeping sores, discoloration and loss of sensation in limbs and other areas. Some loss of functionality might be noticeable after healing.
- 48 - 72 hours: severe pain and gangrene. Even after immune system recovery, strong chances of amputation. Scarring, Permanent loss of some functionality.
- 72 - 96 hours: almost certain amputation, possible death by septic shock even after healing.
So, while in that time several nasty kinds of cancer are guaranteed to have sprung up, they won't be what kills you.
(If several brief immune loss periods repeat, however, it's possible for some of those cancers to develop enough to become dangerous).
Meanwhile, however, dormant infections might spring up and manifest (herpes, for example, and some fungal conditions). These will take longer to disappear even after healing (actually might surface some time after the immune system has recovered).
If you have a preexisting condition or eat anything that requires immune support (the bacteriocidal properties of saliva will still be there, but several kinds of sporae will not be killed and usually die when they germinate and get recognized by the immune system - so, now, that barrier no longer holds), then anything from cholera to Montezuma's Revenge can off you within 48 hours.
If you don't have complete immune deficiency, then you can survive indefinitely as long as you take sufficient precautions (this is the so-called "Bubble Condition" or "Bubble Boy Disease").
Something more than that, and you have something not too different from Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome - AIDS.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Since your body contains at least as many microorganisms of various kinds as it does human cells, which are continually kept in check by the immune system, I’d say that “a few hours” was a reasonable guess for your survival time with no immune system at all. You wouldn’t have to wait to be invaded by bacteria or viruses, the ones that would kill you are already there.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Even in medieval Europe, where they had no germ theory, you'd have a couple of days. However, the germs already present on your body are not necessarily well placed to take advantage of an immune deficiency. The knowledge or otherwise and habits of cleanliness of the afflicted person will affect how quickly they gain access.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MontyWild they didn't have germ theory but they did have immune systems. What OP asks is, I believe, something a bit different.
$endgroup$
– Gnudiff
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
active
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$begingroup$
In about 24-48 hours you'd start having skin condition from unchecked staphylococci and the like: eczema and erythrodermatitis. As soon as the skin barrier is broken, cellulitis and circulation problems will ensue, followed (since there's nothing to check the infection) by gangrene. I'd expect death from septic shock to occur inside of one week. Disabling will be severe within three days and pretty much complete inside of four or five.
So:
- 0 - 24 hours: no real effects except itching and rashes
- 24 - 48 hours: weeping sores, discoloration and loss of sensation in limbs and other areas. Some loss of functionality might be noticeable after healing.
- 48 - 72 hours: severe pain and gangrene. Even after immune system recovery, strong chances of amputation. Scarring, Permanent loss of some functionality.
- 72 - 96 hours: almost certain amputation, possible death by septic shock even after healing.
So, while in that time several nasty kinds of cancer are guaranteed to have sprung up, they won't be what kills you.
(If several brief immune loss periods repeat, however, it's possible for some of those cancers to develop enough to become dangerous).
Meanwhile, however, dormant infections might spring up and manifest (herpes, for example, and some fungal conditions). These will take longer to disappear even after healing (actually might surface some time after the immune system has recovered).
If you have a preexisting condition or eat anything that requires immune support (the bacteriocidal properties of saliva will still be there, but several kinds of sporae will not be killed and usually die when they germinate and get recognized by the immune system - so, now, that barrier no longer holds), then anything from cholera to Montezuma's Revenge can off you within 48 hours.
If you don't have complete immune deficiency, then you can survive indefinitely as long as you take sufficient precautions (this is the so-called "Bubble Condition" or "Bubble Boy Disease").
Something more than that, and you have something not too different from Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome - AIDS.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In about 24-48 hours you'd start having skin condition from unchecked staphylococci and the like: eczema and erythrodermatitis. As soon as the skin barrier is broken, cellulitis and circulation problems will ensue, followed (since there's nothing to check the infection) by gangrene. I'd expect death from septic shock to occur inside of one week. Disabling will be severe within three days and pretty much complete inside of four or five.
So:
- 0 - 24 hours: no real effects except itching and rashes
- 24 - 48 hours: weeping sores, discoloration and loss of sensation in limbs and other areas. Some loss of functionality might be noticeable after healing.
- 48 - 72 hours: severe pain and gangrene. Even after immune system recovery, strong chances of amputation. Scarring, Permanent loss of some functionality.
- 72 - 96 hours: almost certain amputation, possible death by septic shock even after healing.
So, while in that time several nasty kinds of cancer are guaranteed to have sprung up, they won't be what kills you.
(If several brief immune loss periods repeat, however, it's possible for some of those cancers to develop enough to become dangerous).
Meanwhile, however, dormant infections might spring up and manifest (herpes, for example, and some fungal conditions). These will take longer to disappear even after healing (actually might surface some time after the immune system has recovered).
If you have a preexisting condition or eat anything that requires immune support (the bacteriocidal properties of saliva will still be there, but several kinds of sporae will not be killed and usually die when they germinate and get recognized by the immune system - so, now, that barrier no longer holds), then anything from cholera to Montezuma's Revenge can off you within 48 hours.
If you don't have complete immune deficiency, then you can survive indefinitely as long as you take sufficient precautions (this is the so-called "Bubble Condition" or "Bubble Boy Disease").
Something more than that, and you have something not too different from Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome - AIDS.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In about 24-48 hours you'd start having skin condition from unchecked staphylococci and the like: eczema and erythrodermatitis. As soon as the skin barrier is broken, cellulitis and circulation problems will ensue, followed (since there's nothing to check the infection) by gangrene. I'd expect death from septic shock to occur inside of one week. Disabling will be severe within three days and pretty much complete inside of four or five.
So:
- 0 - 24 hours: no real effects except itching and rashes
- 24 - 48 hours: weeping sores, discoloration and loss of sensation in limbs and other areas. Some loss of functionality might be noticeable after healing.
- 48 - 72 hours: severe pain and gangrene. Even after immune system recovery, strong chances of amputation. Scarring, Permanent loss of some functionality.
- 72 - 96 hours: almost certain amputation, possible death by septic shock even after healing.
So, while in that time several nasty kinds of cancer are guaranteed to have sprung up, they won't be what kills you.
(If several brief immune loss periods repeat, however, it's possible for some of those cancers to develop enough to become dangerous).
Meanwhile, however, dormant infections might spring up and manifest (herpes, for example, and some fungal conditions). These will take longer to disappear even after healing (actually might surface some time after the immune system has recovered).
If you have a preexisting condition or eat anything that requires immune support (the bacteriocidal properties of saliva will still be there, but several kinds of sporae will not be killed and usually die when they germinate and get recognized by the immune system - so, now, that barrier no longer holds), then anything from cholera to Montezuma's Revenge can off you within 48 hours.
If you don't have complete immune deficiency, then you can survive indefinitely as long as you take sufficient precautions (this is the so-called "Bubble Condition" or "Bubble Boy Disease").
Something more than that, and you have something not too different from Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome - AIDS.
$endgroup$
In about 24-48 hours you'd start having skin condition from unchecked staphylococci and the like: eczema and erythrodermatitis. As soon as the skin barrier is broken, cellulitis and circulation problems will ensue, followed (since there's nothing to check the infection) by gangrene. I'd expect death from septic shock to occur inside of one week. Disabling will be severe within three days and pretty much complete inside of four or five.
So:
- 0 - 24 hours: no real effects except itching and rashes
- 24 - 48 hours: weeping sores, discoloration and loss of sensation in limbs and other areas. Some loss of functionality might be noticeable after healing.
- 48 - 72 hours: severe pain and gangrene. Even after immune system recovery, strong chances of amputation. Scarring, Permanent loss of some functionality.
- 72 - 96 hours: almost certain amputation, possible death by septic shock even after healing.
So, while in that time several nasty kinds of cancer are guaranteed to have sprung up, they won't be what kills you.
(If several brief immune loss periods repeat, however, it's possible for some of those cancers to develop enough to become dangerous).
Meanwhile, however, dormant infections might spring up and manifest (herpes, for example, and some fungal conditions). These will take longer to disappear even after healing (actually might surface some time after the immune system has recovered).
If you have a preexisting condition or eat anything that requires immune support (the bacteriocidal properties of saliva will still be there, but several kinds of sporae will not be killed and usually die when they germinate and get recognized by the immune system - so, now, that barrier no longer holds), then anything from cholera to Montezuma's Revenge can off you within 48 hours.
If you don't have complete immune deficiency, then you can survive indefinitely as long as you take sufficient precautions (this is the so-called "Bubble Condition" or "Bubble Boy Disease").
Something more than that, and you have something not too different from Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome - AIDS.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
LSerniLSerni
32.9k2 gold badges60 silver badges105 bronze badges
32.9k2 gold badges60 silver badges105 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Since your body contains at least as many microorganisms of various kinds as it does human cells, which are continually kept in check by the immune system, I’d say that “a few hours” was a reasonable guess for your survival time with no immune system at all. You wouldn’t have to wait to be invaded by bacteria or viruses, the ones that would kill you are already there.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Even in medieval Europe, where they had no germ theory, you'd have a couple of days. However, the germs already present on your body are not necessarily well placed to take advantage of an immune deficiency. The knowledge or otherwise and habits of cleanliness of the afflicted person will affect how quickly they gain access.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MontyWild they didn't have germ theory but they did have immune systems. What OP asks is, I believe, something a bit different.
$endgroup$
– Gnudiff
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Since your body contains at least as many microorganisms of various kinds as it does human cells, which are continually kept in check by the immune system, I’d say that “a few hours” was a reasonable guess for your survival time with no immune system at all. You wouldn’t have to wait to be invaded by bacteria or viruses, the ones that would kill you are already there.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Even in medieval Europe, where they had no germ theory, you'd have a couple of days. However, the germs already present on your body are not necessarily well placed to take advantage of an immune deficiency. The knowledge or otherwise and habits of cleanliness of the afflicted person will affect how quickly they gain access.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MontyWild they didn't have germ theory but they did have immune systems. What OP asks is, I believe, something a bit different.
$endgroup$
– Gnudiff
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Since your body contains at least as many microorganisms of various kinds as it does human cells, which are continually kept in check by the immune system, I’d say that “a few hours” was a reasonable guess for your survival time with no immune system at all. You wouldn’t have to wait to be invaded by bacteria or viruses, the ones that would kill you are already there.
$endgroup$
Since your body contains at least as many microorganisms of various kinds as it does human cells, which are continually kept in check by the immune system, I’d say that “a few hours” was a reasonable guess for your survival time with no immune system at all. You wouldn’t have to wait to be invaded by bacteria or viruses, the ones that would kill you are already there.
answered 8 hours ago
Mike ScottMike Scott
13.7k3 gold badges27 silver badges58 bronze badges
13.7k3 gold badges27 silver badges58 bronze badges
2
$begingroup$
Even in medieval Europe, where they had no germ theory, you'd have a couple of days. However, the germs already present on your body are not necessarily well placed to take advantage of an immune deficiency. The knowledge or otherwise and habits of cleanliness of the afflicted person will affect how quickly they gain access.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MontyWild they didn't have germ theory but they did have immune systems. What OP asks is, I believe, something a bit different.
$endgroup$
– Gnudiff
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
2
$begingroup$
Even in medieval Europe, where they had no germ theory, you'd have a couple of days. However, the germs already present on your body are not necessarily well placed to take advantage of an immune deficiency. The knowledge or otherwise and habits of cleanliness of the afflicted person will affect how quickly they gain access.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MontyWild they didn't have germ theory but they did have immune systems. What OP asks is, I believe, something a bit different.
$endgroup$
– Gnudiff
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Even in medieval Europe, where they had no germ theory, you'd have a couple of days. However, the germs already present on your body are not necessarily well placed to take advantage of an immune deficiency. The knowledge or otherwise and habits of cleanliness of the afflicted person will affect how quickly they gain access.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Even in medieval Europe, where they had no germ theory, you'd have a couple of days. However, the germs already present on your body are not necessarily well placed to take advantage of an immune deficiency. The knowledge or otherwise and habits of cleanliness of the afflicted person will affect how quickly they gain access.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MontyWild they didn't have germ theory but they did have immune systems. What OP asks is, I believe, something a bit different.
$endgroup$
– Gnudiff
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MontyWild they didn't have germ theory but they did have immune systems. What OP asks is, I believe, something a bit different.
$endgroup$
– Gnudiff
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
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Without stating the environment or whether the person so afflicted is going to get any medical treatment, it's going to be difficult to say. Medieval Europe is a much different place to modern Europe, and even the life experience of the victim will make a big difference.
$endgroup$
– Monty Wild♦
8 hours ago