If LPG gas burners can reach temperatures above 1700 °C, then how do HCA and PAH not develop in extreme amounts during cooking?What is the temperature of heat generated from LPG gas?How can a group be both a good nucleophile and a good leaving group?How does toluene react at higher temperatures and why?Can solid acids and bases have pH values? If not, how are they classified as acids or bases?

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If LPG gas burners can reach temperatures above 1700 °C, then how do HCA and PAH not develop in extreme amounts during cooking?


What is the temperature of heat generated from LPG gas?How can a group be both a good nucleophile and a good leaving group?How does toluene react at higher temperatures and why?Can solid acids and bases have pH values? If not, how are they classified as acids or bases?






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margin-bottom:0;









1












$begingroup$


According to What is the temperature of heat generated from LPG gas?, the temperature of (1) LPG gas is above 1700 degree Celsius.



Many of us are familiar with pan-frying meat (steak, pan-frying the chicken breast etc).



Next, consider this: when you're (2) cooking meat at high temperatures ("above 200 °C) then it'll start forming heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), according to healthline.com and precisionnutrition.com.



Note: The way they're formed is when fat drips onto the flame or the utensil, which is at very high temperature, and then reacts with the high heat to form HCAs and PAHs.



Lastly, there is research that (3) corelates HCAs and PAHs with causing cancer in our bodies.



Sources: They're are all mentioned in the two articles that I linked above.



Question: If you combine these 3 facts, then we must be cooking a huge amount of HCAs + PAHs. It's a wonder that we aren't dead yet! How is it that we haven't developed cancer by eating meat cooked over a pan on an LPG gas (which I believe is quite common)? Or are we all consuming HCAs / PAHs slowly over time and will develop cancer? Or are one of the 3 facts above wrong?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Mugen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$


    According to What is the temperature of heat generated from LPG gas?, the temperature of (1) LPG gas is above 1700 degree Celsius.



    Many of us are familiar with pan-frying meat (steak, pan-frying the chicken breast etc).



    Next, consider this: when you're (2) cooking meat at high temperatures ("above 200 °C) then it'll start forming heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), according to healthline.com and precisionnutrition.com.



    Note: The way they're formed is when fat drips onto the flame or the utensil, which is at very high temperature, and then reacts with the high heat to form HCAs and PAHs.



    Lastly, there is research that (3) corelates HCAs and PAHs with causing cancer in our bodies.



    Sources: They're are all mentioned in the two articles that I linked above.



    Question: If you combine these 3 facts, then we must be cooking a huge amount of HCAs + PAHs. It's a wonder that we aren't dead yet! How is it that we haven't developed cancer by eating meat cooked over a pan on an LPG gas (which I believe is quite common)? Or are we all consuming HCAs / PAHs slowly over time and will develop cancer? Or are one of the 3 facts above wrong?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor



    Mugen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$
















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      According to What is the temperature of heat generated from LPG gas?, the temperature of (1) LPG gas is above 1700 degree Celsius.



      Many of us are familiar with pan-frying meat (steak, pan-frying the chicken breast etc).



      Next, consider this: when you're (2) cooking meat at high temperatures ("above 200 °C) then it'll start forming heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), according to healthline.com and precisionnutrition.com.



      Note: The way they're formed is when fat drips onto the flame or the utensil, which is at very high temperature, and then reacts with the high heat to form HCAs and PAHs.



      Lastly, there is research that (3) corelates HCAs and PAHs with causing cancer in our bodies.



      Sources: They're are all mentioned in the two articles that I linked above.



      Question: If you combine these 3 facts, then we must be cooking a huge amount of HCAs + PAHs. It's a wonder that we aren't dead yet! How is it that we haven't developed cancer by eating meat cooked over a pan on an LPG gas (which I believe is quite common)? Or are we all consuming HCAs / PAHs slowly over time and will develop cancer? Or are one of the 3 facts above wrong?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Mugen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      $endgroup$




      According to What is the temperature of heat generated from LPG gas?, the temperature of (1) LPG gas is above 1700 degree Celsius.



      Many of us are familiar with pan-frying meat (steak, pan-frying the chicken breast etc).



      Next, consider this: when you're (2) cooking meat at high temperatures ("above 200 °C) then it'll start forming heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), according to healthline.com and precisionnutrition.com.



      Note: The way they're formed is when fat drips onto the flame or the utensil, which is at very high temperature, and then reacts with the high heat to form HCAs and PAHs.



      Lastly, there is research that (3) corelates HCAs and PAHs with causing cancer in our bodies.



      Sources: They're are all mentioned in the two articles that I linked above.



      Question: If you combine these 3 facts, then we must be cooking a huge amount of HCAs + PAHs. It's a wonder that we aren't dead yet! How is it that we haven't developed cancer by eating meat cooked over a pan on an LPG gas (which I believe is quite common)? Or are we all consuming HCAs / PAHs slowly over time and will develop cancer? Or are one of the 3 facts above wrong?







      organic-chemistry food-chemistry






      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Mugen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.










      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Mugen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      andselisk

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      New contributor



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      asked 11 hours ago









      MugenMugen

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      Check out our Code of Conduct.

























          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4














          $begingroup$

          Nothing with more thermal mass than a needle will reach the temperature of the flame. Note that if the stove or utensils would be this hot they would be glowing blinding white, while IRL they won't even glow a dim red. Granted if you dripped fat on a hot stove it would turn into a black tar containing PAH's, and a microscropic fraction of this could end up in your food. We are exposed to carcinogens and radiation all the time, theres no reason to be alarmed.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Okay this was helpful. You make a valid point. The utensils are at a much lower temperature. I'm not sure how much but I'm assuming that crossing 200 degree Celsius is possible. What do you think? Also, the black tar is what contains the PAHs is it? I've seen that forming every time I cooked chicken on the pans. But what makes you say that a microscopic fraction of it would end up in our food? If you see the article I linked (source1) it says that any fat that drops on a hot pan is going to create PAHs which will end up in your food. It doesn't talk about quantities at all though. What say?
            $endgroup$
            – Mugen
            9 hours ago


















          1














          $begingroup$

          It is the temperature of the pan that matters not the flame



          The flame temperature is irrelevant if you are cooking in a vessel. the only temperature you need to worry about is the temperature of the surface of the pan (or–even more importantly–the temperature of the meat). The surface of the pan will rarely get above around 220 °C if you are monitoring it. An unattended pan can get hotter, but, if you let it get too hot, your food will rapidly burn and will not be edible. Conversely, if the food is palatable, you probably haven't heated it enough to get lots of nasty HCAs and PAHs.



          But the research that caused your worry is also frequently overstated. Yes, large quantities of PAHs or HCAs may be nasty, but the amounts in food–even food cooked on an open flame barbecue are very small and there have been no convincing studies showing a notable effect on health. There are some studies shooing a very small effect of meat on health (diseases such as bowel cancer have been linked to some meats but the studies are statistically weak and the effects are very small. Moreover these studies link to meat not cooking products but would probably have spotted any effects based on nasty cooking by-products). it is worth remembering that people have been cooking on open flames since we invented fire. If that were really dangerous, there would be strong evidence of harm and/or primitive man would have developed good defences to avoid the harm (as mild-drinkers evolved lactose tolerance in adults because their diets consisted of a lot of dairy products).



          There have been many food scares based on observations of known nasties in cooked food. Acrolein and Nitites, for example. None of these have been shown to have any notable measurable effect on people in the concentrations present in the diet.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$
















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            2 Answers
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            2 Answers
            2






            active

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            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

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            4














            $begingroup$

            Nothing with more thermal mass than a needle will reach the temperature of the flame. Note that if the stove or utensils would be this hot they would be glowing blinding white, while IRL they won't even glow a dim red. Granted if you dripped fat on a hot stove it would turn into a black tar containing PAH's, and a microscropic fraction of this could end up in your food. We are exposed to carcinogens and radiation all the time, theres no reason to be alarmed.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$














            • $begingroup$
              Okay this was helpful. You make a valid point. The utensils are at a much lower temperature. I'm not sure how much but I'm assuming that crossing 200 degree Celsius is possible. What do you think? Also, the black tar is what contains the PAHs is it? I've seen that forming every time I cooked chicken on the pans. But what makes you say that a microscopic fraction of it would end up in our food? If you see the article I linked (source1) it says that any fat that drops on a hot pan is going to create PAHs which will end up in your food. It doesn't talk about quantities at all though. What say?
              $endgroup$
              – Mugen
              9 hours ago















            4














            $begingroup$

            Nothing with more thermal mass than a needle will reach the temperature of the flame. Note that if the stove or utensils would be this hot they would be glowing blinding white, while IRL they won't even glow a dim red. Granted if you dripped fat on a hot stove it would turn into a black tar containing PAH's, and a microscropic fraction of this could end up in your food. We are exposed to carcinogens and radiation all the time, theres no reason to be alarmed.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$














            • $begingroup$
              Okay this was helpful. You make a valid point. The utensils are at a much lower temperature. I'm not sure how much but I'm assuming that crossing 200 degree Celsius is possible. What do you think? Also, the black tar is what contains the PAHs is it? I've seen that forming every time I cooked chicken on the pans. But what makes you say that a microscopic fraction of it would end up in our food? If you see the article I linked (source1) it says that any fat that drops on a hot pan is going to create PAHs which will end up in your food. It doesn't talk about quantities at all though. What say?
              $endgroup$
              – Mugen
              9 hours ago













            4














            4










            4







            $begingroup$

            Nothing with more thermal mass than a needle will reach the temperature of the flame. Note that if the stove or utensils would be this hot they would be glowing blinding white, while IRL they won't even glow a dim red. Granted if you dripped fat on a hot stove it would turn into a black tar containing PAH's, and a microscropic fraction of this could end up in your food. We are exposed to carcinogens and radiation all the time, theres no reason to be alarmed.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Nothing with more thermal mass than a needle will reach the temperature of the flame. Note that if the stove or utensils would be this hot they would be glowing blinding white, while IRL they won't even glow a dim red. Granted if you dripped fat on a hot stove it would turn into a black tar containing PAH's, and a microscropic fraction of this could end up in your food. We are exposed to carcinogens and radiation all the time, theres no reason to be alarmed.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 10 hours ago









            Francis L.Francis L.

            4052 silver badges12 bronze badges




            4052 silver badges12 bronze badges














            • $begingroup$
              Okay this was helpful. You make a valid point. The utensils are at a much lower temperature. I'm not sure how much but I'm assuming that crossing 200 degree Celsius is possible. What do you think? Also, the black tar is what contains the PAHs is it? I've seen that forming every time I cooked chicken on the pans. But what makes you say that a microscopic fraction of it would end up in our food? If you see the article I linked (source1) it says that any fat that drops on a hot pan is going to create PAHs which will end up in your food. It doesn't talk about quantities at all though. What say?
              $endgroup$
              – Mugen
              9 hours ago
















            • $begingroup$
              Okay this was helpful. You make a valid point. The utensils are at a much lower temperature. I'm not sure how much but I'm assuming that crossing 200 degree Celsius is possible. What do you think? Also, the black tar is what contains the PAHs is it? I've seen that forming every time I cooked chicken on the pans. But what makes you say that a microscopic fraction of it would end up in our food? If you see the article I linked (source1) it says that any fat that drops on a hot pan is going to create PAHs which will end up in your food. It doesn't talk about quantities at all though. What say?
              $endgroup$
              – Mugen
              9 hours ago















            $begingroup$
            Okay this was helpful. You make a valid point. The utensils are at a much lower temperature. I'm not sure how much but I'm assuming that crossing 200 degree Celsius is possible. What do you think? Also, the black tar is what contains the PAHs is it? I've seen that forming every time I cooked chicken on the pans. But what makes you say that a microscopic fraction of it would end up in our food? If you see the article I linked (source1) it says that any fat that drops on a hot pan is going to create PAHs which will end up in your food. It doesn't talk about quantities at all though. What say?
            $endgroup$
            – Mugen
            9 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Okay this was helpful. You make a valid point. The utensils are at a much lower temperature. I'm not sure how much but I'm assuming that crossing 200 degree Celsius is possible. What do you think? Also, the black tar is what contains the PAHs is it? I've seen that forming every time I cooked chicken on the pans. But what makes you say that a microscopic fraction of it would end up in our food? If you see the article I linked (source1) it says that any fat that drops on a hot pan is going to create PAHs which will end up in your food. It doesn't talk about quantities at all though. What say?
            $endgroup$
            – Mugen
            9 hours ago













            1














            $begingroup$

            It is the temperature of the pan that matters not the flame



            The flame temperature is irrelevant if you are cooking in a vessel. the only temperature you need to worry about is the temperature of the surface of the pan (or–even more importantly–the temperature of the meat). The surface of the pan will rarely get above around 220 °C if you are monitoring it. An unattended pan can get hotter, but, if you let it get too hot, your food will rapidly burn and will not be edible. Conversely, if the food is palatable, you probably haven't heated it enough to get lots of nasty HCAs and PAHs.



            But the research that caused your worry is also frequently overstated. Yes, large quantities of PAHs or HCAs may be nasty, but the amounts in food–even food cooked on an open flame barbecue are very small and there have been no convincing studies showing a notable effect on health. There are some studies shooing a very small effect of meat on health (diseases such as bowel cancer have been linked to some meats but the studies are statistically weak and the effects are very small. Moreover these studies link to meat not cooking products but would probably have spotted any effects based on nasty cooking by-products). it is worth remembering that people have been cooking on open flames since we invented fire. If that were really dangerous, there would be strong evidence of harm and/or primitive man would have developed good defences to avoid the harm (as mild-drinkers evolved lactose tolerance in adults because their diets consisted of a lot of dairy products).



            There have been many food scares based on observations of known nasties in cooked food. Acrolein and Nitites, for example. None of these have been shown to have any notable measurable effect on people in the concentrations present in the diet.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



















              1














              $begingroup$

              It is the temperature of the pan that matters not the flame



              The flame temperature is irrelevant if you are cooking in a vessel. the only temperature you need to worry about is the temperature of the surface of the pan (or–even more importantly–the temperature of the meat). The surface of the pan will rarely get above around 220 °C if you are monitoring it. An unattended pan can get hotter, but, if you let it get too hot, your food will rapidly burn and will not be edible. Conversely, if the food is palatable, you probably haven't heated it enough to get lots of nasty HCAs and PAHs.



              But the research that caused your worry is also frequently overstated. Yes, large quantities of PAHs or HCAs may be nasty, but the amounts in food–even food cooked on an open flame barbecue are very small and there have been no convincing studies showing a notable effect on health. There are some studies shooing a very small effect of meat on health (diseases such as bowel cancer have been linked to some meats but the studies are statistically weak and the effects are very small. Moreover these studies link to meat not cooking products but would probably have spotted any effects based on nasty cooking by-products). it is worth remembering that people have been cooking on open flames since we invented fire. If that were really dangerous, there would be strong evidence of harm and/or primitive man would have developed good defences to avoid the harm (as mild-drinkers evolved lactose tolerance in adults because their diets consisted of a lot of dairy products).



              There have been many food scares based on observations of known nasties in cooked food. Acrolein and Nitites, for example. None of these have been shown to have any notable measurable effect on people in the concentrations present in the diet.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                1














                1










                1







                $begingroup$

                It is the temperature of the pan that matters not the flame



                The flame temperature is irrelevant if you are cooking in a vessel. the only temperature you need to worry about is the temperature of the surface of the pan (or–even more importantly–the temperature of the meat). The surface of the pan will rarely get above around 220 °C if you are monitoring it. An unattended pan can get hotter, but, if you let it get too hot, your food will rapidly burn and will not be edible. Conversely, if the food is palatable, you probably haven't heated it enough to get lots of nasty HCAs and PAHs.



                But the research that caused your worry is also frequently overstated. Yes, large quantities of PAHs or HCAs may be nasty, but the amounts in food–even food cooked on an open flame barbecue are very small and there have been no convincing studies showing a notable effect on health. There are some studies shooing a very small effect of meat on health (diseases such as bowel cancer have been linked to some meats but the studies are statistically weak and the effects are very small. Moreover these studies link to meat not cooking products but would probably have spotted any effects based on nasty cooking by-products). it is worth remembering that people have been cooking on open flames since we invented fire. If that were really dangerous, there would be strong evidence of harm and/or primitive man would have developed good defences to avoid the harm (as mild-drinkers evolved lactose tolerance in adults because their diets consisted of a lot of dairy products).



                There have been many food scares based on observations of known nasties in cooked food. Acrolein and Nitites, for example. None of these have been shown to have any notable measurable effect on people in the concentrations present in the diet.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                It is the temperature of the pan that matters not the flame



                The flame temperature is irrelevant if you are cooking in a vessel. the only temperature you need to worry about is the temperature of the surface of the pan (or–even more importantly–the temperature of the meat). The surface of the pan will rarely get above around 220 °C if you are monitoring it. An unattended pan can get hotter, but, if you let it get too hot, your food will rapidly burn and will not be edible. Conversely, if the food is palatable, you probably haven't heated it enough to get lots of nasty HCAs and PAHs.



                But the research that caused your worry is also frequently overstated. Yes, large quantities of PAHs or HCAs may be nasty, but the amounts in food–even food cooked on an open flame barbecue are very small and there have been no convincing studies showing a notable effect on health. There are some studies shooing a very small effect of meat on health (diseases such as bowel cancer have been linked to some meats but the studies are statistically weak and the effects are very small. Moreover these studies link to meat not cooking products but would probably have spotted any effects based on nasty cooking by-products). it is worth remembering that people have been cooking on open flames since we invented fire. If that were really dangerous, there would be strong evidence of harm and/or primitive man would have developed good defences to avoid the harm (as mild-drinkers evolved lactose tolerance in adults because their diets consisted of a lot of dairy products).



                There have been many food scares based on observations of known nasties in cooked food. Acrolein and Nitites, for example. None of these have been shown to have any notable measurable effect on people in the concentrations present in the diet.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 4 hours ago









                matt_blackmatt_black

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