Extra initial Aeneid lines in 1662 M. de Marolles versionWhy is Virgil's Aeneid considered incomplete?Translation of Lines 333–336 of Vergil's Aeneid Book 4Potentially Ambiguous Subject for a Verb in the AeneidStructure of the AeneidThe Aeneid “facilis descensus averno” or “facilis descensus averni”
How to write characters doing illogical things in a believable way?
hyperref warns when using cleveref in section
Statistical tests for benchmark comparison
Insight into cavity resonators
Seven Places at Once - Another Google Earth Challenge?
Are there objective criteria for classifying consonance v. dissonance?
Is the Dodge action perceptible to other characters?
Why are some files not movable on Windows 10?
Help with wheel lock
What's the benefit of prohibiting the use of techniques/language constructs that have not been taught?
Shouldn't countries like Russia and Canada support global warming?
Answer Not A Fool, or Answer A Fool?
Has Dumbledore ever scolded Harry?
Why is it called a stateful and a stateless firewall?
What 68-pin connector is this on my 2.5" solid state drive?
In what state are satellites left in when they are left in a graveyard orbit?
How can I use expandafter the expand the definition of this control sequence?
How clean are pets?
Planar regular languages
Can I include Abandoned Patent in CV?
Permutations in Disguise
In what sequence should an advanced civilization teach technology to medieval society to maximize rate of adoption?
Can a business put whatever they want into a contract?
How much would a 1 foot tall human weigh?
Extra initial Aeneid lines in 1662 M. de Marolles version
Why is Virgil's Aeneid considered incomplete?Translation of Lines 333–336 of Vergil's Aeneid Book 4Potentially Ambiguous Subject for a Verb in the AeneidStructure of the AeneidThe Aeneid “facilis descensus averno” or “facilis descensus averni”
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
I have a 1662 version of the Aeneid, with Latin and French on facing pages, with the French having been translated by M. de Marolles, Abbé de Villeloin, [additional book info continues: À Paris, Chez Gvillavme De Lvyne, Libraire - Iuré au Palais, en la Gallerie des Morciers, à la Iustice, M. DC. LXII.]
There are four lines preceding the normal line 1 (the normal line 1 being 'Arma virumque cano...', which is line 5 in Marolles' version).
Ille ego, qui quondam gracili modulatus auena
Carmen; & egressus syluis, vicina coëgi,
Vt quamuis auido parerent arua colono;
Gratum opus agricolis: at nunc horrentia Martis
Arma virumque cano...
There is no mention of these lines having been a later insertion (including in the notes where Marolles refers to them as having been written by Vergil), but I am told by my Latin teacher that they must be an insertion, and that line 1 as written by Vergil is 'Arma virumque cano...'.
Thought I'd ask who knows anything about these lines?
history vergilius aeneis
add a comment
|
I have a 1662 version of the Aeneid, with Latin and French on facing pages, with the French having been translated by M. de Marolles, Abbé de Villeloin, [additional book info continues: À Paris, Chez Gvillavme De Lvyne, Libraire - Iuré au Palais, en la Gallerie des Morciers, à la Iustice, M. DC. LXII.]
There are four lines preceding the normal line 1 (the normal line 1 being 'Arma virumque cano...', which is line 5 in Marolles' version).
Ille ego, qui quondam gracili modulatus auena
Carmen; & egressus syluis, vicina coëgi,
Vt quamuis auido parerent arua colono;
Gratum opus agricolis: at nunc horrentia Martis
Arma virumque cano...
There is no mention of these lines having been a later insertion (including in the notes where Marolles refers to them as having been written by Vergil), but I am told by my Latin teacher that they must be an insertion, and that line 1 as written by Vergil is 'Arma virumque cano...'.
Thought I'd ask who knows anything about these lines?
history vergilius aeneis
A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
I have a 1662 version of the Aeneid, with Latin and French on facing pages, with the French having been translated by M. de Marolles, Abbé de Villeloin, [additional book info continues: À Paris, Chez Gvillavme De Lvyne, Libraire - Iuré au Palais, en la Gallerie des Morciers, à la Iustice, M. DC. LXII.]
There are four lines preceding the normal line 1 (the normal line 1 being 'Arma virumque cano...', which is line 5 in Marolles' version).
Ille ego, qui quondam gracili modulatus auena
Carmen; & egressus syluis, vicina coëgi,
Vt quamuis auido parerent arua colono;
Gratum opus agricolis: at nunc horrentia Martis
Arma virumque cano...
There is no mention of these lines having been a later insertion (including in the notes where Marolles refers to them as having been written by Vergil), but I am told by my Latin teacher that they must be an insertion, and that line 1 as written by Vergil is 'Arma virumque cano...'.
Thought I'd ask who knows anything about these lines?
history vergilius aeneis
I have a 1662 version of the Aeneid, with Latin and French on facing pages, with the French having been translated by M. de Marolles, Abbé de Villeloin, [additional book info continues: À Paris, Chez Gvillavme De Lvyne, Libraire - Iuré au Palais, en la Gallerie des Morciers, à la Iustice, M. DC. LXII.]
There are four lines preceding the normal line 1 (the normal line 1 being 'Arma virumque cano...', which is line 5 in Marolles' version).
Ille ego, qui quondam gracili modulatus auena
Carmen; & egressus syluis, vicina coëgi,
Vt quamuis auido parerent arua colono;
Gratum opus agricolis: at nunc horrentia Martis
Arma virumque cano...
There is no mention of these lines having been a later insertion (including in the notes where Marolles refers to them as having been written by Vergil), but I am told by my Latin teacher that they must be an insertion, and that line 1 as written by Vergil is 'Arma virumque cano...'.
Thought I'd ask who knows anything about these lines?
history vergilius aeneis
history vergilius aeneis
edited 8 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
52.7k12 gold badges74 silver badges313 bronze badges
52.7k12 gold badges74 silver badges313 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
CirculwyrdCirculwyrd
1664 bronze badges
1664 bronze badges
A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.
It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:
Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…
Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…
I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.
But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.
add a comment
|
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "644"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f12491%2fextra-initial-aeneid-lines-in-1662-m-de-marolles-version%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.
It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:
Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…
Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…
I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.
But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.
add a comment
|
Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.
It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:
Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…
Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…
I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.
But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.
add a comment
|
Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.
It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:
Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…
Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…
I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.
But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.
Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.
It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:
Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…
Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…
I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.
But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.
answered 8 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
25.2k2 gold badges33 silver badges107 bronze badges
25.2k2 gold badges33 silver badges107 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
Thanks for contributing an answer to Latin Language Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f12491%2fextra-initial-aeneid-lines-in-1662-m-de-marolles-version%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend
– Alex B.
1 hour ago