Extra initial Aeneid lines in 1662 M. de Marolles versionWhy is Virgil's Aeneid considered incomplete?Translation of Lines 333–336 of Vergil's Aeneid Book 4Potentially Ambiguous Subject for a Verb in the AeneidStructure of the AeneidThe Aeneid “facilis descensus averno” or “facilis descensus averni”

How to write characters doing illogical things in a believable way?

hyperref warns when using cleveref in section

Statistical tests for benchmark comparison

Insight into cavity resonators

Seven Places at Once - Another Google Earth Challenge?

Are there objective criteria for classifying consonance v. dissonance?

Is the Dodge action perceptible to other characters?

Why are some files not movable on Windows 10?

Help with wheel lock

What's the benefit of prohibiting the use of techniques/language constructs that have not been taught?

Shouldn't countries like Russia and Canada support global warming?

Answer Not A Fool, or Answer A Fool?

Has Dumbledore ever scolded Harry?

Why is it called a stateful and a stateless firewall?

What 68-pin connector is this on my 2.5" solid state drive?

In what state are satellites left in when they are left in a graveyard orbit?

How can I use expandafter the expand the definition of this control sequence?

How clean are pets?

Planar regular languages

Can I include Abandoned Patent in CV?

Permutations in Disguise

In what sequence should an advanced civilization teach technology to medieval society to maximize rate of adoption?

Can a business put whatever they want into a contract?

How much would a 1 foot tall human weigh?



Extra initial Aeneid lines in 1662 M. de Marolles version


Why is Virgil's Aeneid considered incomplete?Translation of Lines 333–336 of Vergil's Aeneid Book 4Potentially Ambiguous Subject for a Verb in the AeneidStructure of the AeneidThe Aeneid “facilis descensus averno” or “facilis descensus averni”






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








6















I have a 1662 version of the Aeneid, with Latin and French on facing pages, with the French having been translated by M. de Marolles, Abbé de Villeloin, [additional book info continues: À Paris, Chez Gvillavme De Lvyne, Libraire - Iuré au Palais, en la Gallerie des Morciers, à la Iustice, M. DC. LXII.]



There are four lines preceding the normal line 1 (the normal line 1 being 'Arma virumque cano...', which is line 5 in Marolles' version).



Ille ego, qui quondam gracili modulatus auena

Carmen; & egressus syluis, vicina coëgi,

Vt quamuis auido parerent arua colono;

Gratum opus agricolis: at nunc horrentia Martis



Arma virumque cano...



There is no mention of these lines having been a later insertion (including in the notes where Marolles refers to them as having been written by Vergil), but I am told by my Latin teacher that they must be an insertion, and that line 1 as written by Vergil is 'Arma virumque cano...'.



Thought I'd ask who knows anything about these lines?










share|improve this question


























  • A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend

    – Alex B.
    1 hour ago


















6















I have a 1662 version of the Aeneid, with Latin and French on facing pages, with the French having been translated by M. de Marolles, Abbé de Villeloin, [additional book info continues: À Paris, Chez Gvillavme De Lvyne, Libraire - Iuré au Palais, en la Gallerie des Morciers, à la Iustice, M. DC. LXII.]



There are four lines preceding the normal line 1 (the normal line 1 being 'Arma virumque cano...', which is line 5 in Marolles' version).



Ille ego, qui quondam gracili modulatus auena

Carmen; & egressus syluis, vicina coëgi,

Vt quamuis auido parerent arua colono;

Gratum opus agricolis: at nunc horrentia Martis



Arma virumque cano...



There is no mention of these lines having been a later insertion (including in the notes where Marolles refers to them as having been written by Vergil), but I am told by my Latin teacher that they must be an insertion, and that line 1 as written by Vergil is 'Arma virumque cano...'.



Thought I'd ask who knows anything about these lines?










share|improve this question


























  • A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend

    – Alex B.
    1 hour ago














6












6








6








I have a 1662 version of the Aeneid, with Latin and French on facing pages, with the French having been translated by M. de Marolles, Abbé de Villeloin, [additional book info continues: À Paris, Chez Gvillavme De Lvyne, Libraire - Iuré au Palais, en la Gallerie des Morciers, à la Iustice, M. DC. LXII.]



There are four lines preceding the normal line 1 (the normal line 1 being 'Arma virumque cano...', which is line 5 in Marolles' version).



Ille ego, qui quondam gracili modulatus auena

Carmen; & egressus syluis, vicina coëgi,

Vt quamuis auido parerent arua colono;

Gratum opus agricolis: at nunc horrentia Martis



Arma virumque cano...



There is no mention of these lines having been a later insertion (including in the notes where Marolles refers to them as having been written by Vergil), but I am told by my Latin teacher that they must be an insertion, and that line 1 as written by Vergil is 'Arma virumque cano...'.



Thought I'd ask who knows anything about these lines?










share|improve this question
















I have a 1662 version of the Aeneid, with Latin and French on facing pages, with the French having been translated by M. de Marolles, Abbé de Villeloin, [additional book info continues: À Paris, Chez Gvillavme De Lvyne, Libraire - Iuré au Palais, en la Gallerie des Morciers, à la Iustice, M. DC. LXII.]



There are four lines preceding the normal line 1 (the normal line 1 being 'Arma virumque cano...', which is line 5 in Marolles' version).



Ille ego, qui quondam gracili modulatus auena

Carmen; & egressus syluis, vicina coëgi,

Vt quamuis auido parerent arua colono;

Gratum opus agricolis: at nunc horrentia Martis



Arma virumque cano...



There is no mention of these lines having been a later insertion (including in the notes where Marolles refers to them as having been written by Vergil), but I am told by my Latin teacher that they must be an insertion, and that line 1 as written by Vergil is 'Arma virumque cano...'.



Thought I'd ask who knows anything about these lines?







history vergilius aeneis






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 8 hours ago









Joonas Ilmavirta

52.7k12 gold badges74 silver badges313 bronze badges




52.7k12 gold badges74 silver badges313 bronze badges










asked 9 hours ago









CirculwyrdCirculwyrd

1664 bronze badges




1664 bronze badges















  • A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend

    – Alex B.
    1 hour ago


















  • A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend

    – Alex B.
    1 hour ago

















A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend

– Alex B.
1 hour ago






A lot of research has been written on this, e.g. Austin 1968 jstor.org/stable/637692 - strongly recommend

– Alex B.
1 hour ago











1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















6
















Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.



It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:




Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…



Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…




I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.



But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.






share|improve this answer



























    Your Answer








    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "644"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );














    draft saved

    draft discarded
















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f12491%2fextra-initial-aeneid-lines-in-1662-m-de-marolles-version%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes








    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    6
















    Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.



    It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:




    Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…



    Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…




    I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.



    But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.






    share|improve this answer





























      6
















      Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.



      It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:




      Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…



      Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…




      I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.



      But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.






      share|improve this answer



























        6














        6










        6









        Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.



        It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:




        Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…



        Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…




        I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.



        But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.






        share|improve this answer













        Fascinating question! I've found some editions of the Aeneid with these extra lines included, and some (most) without.



        It seems that they aren't found in any of the oldest manuscripts of the Aeneid (except where one commentator scribbled them in the margin much later). Instead, they're first mentioned by the grammarian Aelius Donatus, who wrote in his Vita Vergiliana:




        Nisus grammaticus audisse se a senioribus aiebat, Varium duorum librorum ordinem commutasse, et qui tunc secundus erat in tertium locum transtulisse, etiam primi libri correxisse principium, his versibus demptis: Ille ego, qui…



        Nisus the Grammarian said that he'd heard from his predecessors that Varius had swapped the order of two books, and that he'd moved the one that used to be second to become the third, and that he'd even cleaned up the beginning of the first book by removing these verses: Ille ego, qui…




        I didn't bother copying them all out, but Donatus goes on to quote exactly those four lines that you found. This seems to be the oldest source to include them. According to the legend, Vergil on his deathbed asked Varius to burn the manuscript because he didn't want his masterpiece to go out into the world unfinished; Varius refused, and (according to Donatus) went on to clean things up a bit.



        But Patrick Finglass doesn't consider this story likely. Vergil was clearly emulating Homer's style, and Homeric epics start with a brief summary of the story, not with a note about the author. The incipit arma virumque was also tremendously famous, and was used by various other contemporary poets and writers to refer to the Aeneid—everyone from Ovid to an anonymous graffitist in Pompeii; if these "deleted" lines were actually well-known enough for Donatus to have found them uncorrupted in the mid-fourth century, it's hard to imagine Ovid and Martial not knowing about them.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 8 hours ago









        DraconisDraconis

        25.2k2 gold badges33 silver badges107 bronze badges




        25.2k2 gold badges33 silver badges107 bronze badges































            draft saved

            draft discarded















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Latin Language Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f12491%2fextra-initial-aeneid-lines-in-1662-m-de-marolles-version%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

            Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

            Ласкавець круглолистий Зміст Опис | Поширення | Галерея | Примітки | Посилання | Навігаційне меню58171138361-22960890446Bupleurum rotundifoliumEuro+Med PlantbasePlants of the World Online — Kew ScienceGermplasm Resources Information Network (GRIN)Ласкавецькн. VI : Літери Ком — Левиправивши або дописавши її