Does a feasible high thrust high specific impulse engine exist using current non space technology?What kind of engine does this Isp = 1600 refer to? Is it cubesat-friendly?Is it possible to get a spacecraft into earth orbit using Linear Eddy Current Braking on an orbital runway?
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Does a feasible high thrust high specific impulse engine exist using current non space technology?
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Does a feasible high thrust high specific impulse engine exist using current non space technology?
What kind of engine does this Isp = 1600 refer to? Is it cubesat-friendly?Is it possible to get a spacecraft into earth orbit using Linear Eddy Current Braking on an orbital runway?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
What I mean is an engine whose thrust is on the order of tens to hundreds of Newtons with an ISP "well" above that of chemical engines. I don't require this engine to be space ready - if it has to plug into a mega watt generator and only works on the ground at the moment that's fine - but it must be buildable with current technology. That means that fusion power or antimatter is out. I'm ok with an engine that has been proposed but not built, or an engine that is low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up.
I do require the engine to at least have been peer reviewed and simulated in a high fidelity simulation.
So, doors such an engine concept exist?
advanced-propulsion
asked 8 hours ago
Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
What I mean is an engine whose thrust is on the order of tens to hundreds of Newtons with an ISP "well" above that of chemical engines. I don't require this engine to be space ready - if it has to plug into a mega watt generator and only works on the ground at the moment that's fine - but it must be buildable with current technology. That means that fusion power or antimatter is out. I'm ok with an engine that has been proposed but not built, or an engine that is low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up.
I do require the engine to at least have been peer reviewed and simulated in a high fidelity simulation.
So, doors such an engine concept exist?
advanced-propulsion
asked 8 hours ago
Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I thought I had one: What kind of engine does this Isp = 1600 refer to? Is it cubesat-friendly? but the thrust turns out to be a hundred *milli-newtons."
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
What I mean is an engine whose thrust is on the order of tens to hundreds of Newtons with an ISP "well" above that of chemical engines. I don't require this engine to be space ready - if it has to plug into a mega watt generator and only works on the ground at the moment that's fine - but it must be buildable with current technology. That means that fusion power or antimatter is out. I'm ok with an engine that has been proposed but not built, or an engine that is low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up.
I do require the engine to at least have been peer reviewed and simulated in a high fidelity simulation.
So, doors such an engine concept exist?
advanced-propulsion
asked 8 hours ago
Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
$endgroup$
What I mean is an engine whose thrust is on the order of tens to hundreds of Newtons with an ISP "well" above that of chemical engines. I don't require this engine to be space ready - if it has to plug into a mega watt generator and only works on the ground at the moment that's fine - but it must be buildable with current technology. That means that fusion power or antimatter is out. I'm ok with an engine that has been proposed but not built, or an engine that is low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up.
I do require the engine to at least have been peer reviewed and simulated in a high fidelity simulation.
So, doors such an engine concept exist?
advanced-propulsion
advanced-propulsion
asked 8 hours ago
Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
2,4873 silver badges15 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
I thought I had one: What kind of engine does this Isp = 1600 refer to? Is it cubesat-friendly? but the thrust turns out to be a hundred *milli-newtons."
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
1
$begingroup$
I thought I had one: What kind of engine does this Isp = 1600 refer to? Is it cubesat-friendly? but the thrust turns out to be a hundred *milli-newtons."
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I thought I had one: What kind of engine does this Isp = 1600 refer to? Is it cubesat-friendly? but the thrust turns out to be a hundred *milli-newtons."
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I thought I had one: What kind of engine does this Isp = 1600 refer to? Is it cubesat-friendly? but the thrust turns out to be a hundred *milli-newtons."
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
How about NERVA?
NERVA (Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application) was a nuclear-thermal engine. A reactor heated hydrogen propellant and exhausted it out the nozzle.
The engine was extensively and successfully ground tested.
Thrust ~ 250 kN
ISP ~ 840
(You didn't mention political considerations or thrust-to-weight ratio)
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nah, the T/W of NERVA is fine while not amazing. This would also fall under "low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up", since there are still considerable scaling gains.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I can live with NERVA, yes. I was hoping for something more modern/politically possible but that wasn't really specified in the question
$endgroup$
– Michael Stachowsky
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you need a data point for how such an engine may scale down, the smaller rd-0410 was also extensively tested.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelStachowsky Project Timberwind was the next generation nuclear-thermal -- no more political feasible but slightly more modern.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I'm coining a new phrase and claiming ownership: "thrust-to-dose ratio".
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In general, thermal rockets can in theory have very good $I_SP$ (around 1000s), and provide high thrust.
Unlike chemical rockets, which by definition produce heavy exhaust gasses like $CO_2$, $CO$ or $H_2O$, a thermal rocket can pick any propellant. That would mean it's possible to eject pure hydrogen gas (which in the hotter cases will start to disassociate into mono-atomic hydrogen). The advantage of this is that lighter gasses have higher exhaust velocities at equal temperatures. A thermal rocket is limited by what temperature the engine can stand.
But eliminating the chemical reaction leaves the engine without an energy source for the heat. Some options:
- Using a reactor, Organic Marble's example.
- Concentrated solar power.
- Lasers from Earth.
On the ground, we could hook it up to the grid.
answered 8 hours ago
Hohmannfan♦Hohmannfan
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
factoid: lighter atoms (with +1 charge) also have higher Isp at a given acceleration voltage ($sim m^-1/2$)
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
Your Answer
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
How about NERVA?
NERVA (Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application) was a nuclear-thermal engine. A reactor heated hydrogen propellant and exhausted it out the nozzle.
The engine was extensively and successfully ground tested.
Thrust ~ 250 kN
ISP ~ 840
(You didn't mention political considerations or thrust-to-weight ratio)
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nah, the T/W of NERVA is fine while not amazing. This would also fall under "low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up", since there are still considerable scaling gains.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I can live with NERVA, yes. I was hoping for something more modern/politically possible but that wasn't really specified in the question
$endgroup$
– Michael Stachowsky
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you need a data point for how such an engine may scale down, the smaller rd-0410 was also extensively tested.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelStachowsky Project Timberwind was the next generation nuclear-thermal -- no more political feasible but slightly more modern.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I'm coining a new phrase and claiming ownership: "thrust-to-dose ratio".
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
How about NERVA?
NERVA (Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application) was a nuclear-thermal engine. A reactor heated hydrogen propellant and exhausted it out the nozzle.
The engine was extensively and successfully ground tested.
Thrust ~ 250 kN
ISP ~ 840
(You didn't mention political considerations or thrust-to-weight ratio)
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nah, the T/W of NERVA is fine while not amazing. This would also fall under "low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up", since there are still considerable scaling gains.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I can live with NERVA, yes. I was hoping for something more modern/politically possible but that wasn't really specified in the question
$endgroup$
– Michael Stachowsky
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you need a data point for how such an engine may scale down, the smaller rd-0410 was also extensively tested.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelStachowsky Project Timberwind was the next generation nuclear-thermal -- no more political feasible but slightly more modern.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I'm coining a new phrase and claiming ownership: "thrust-to-dose ratio".
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
How about NERVA?
NERVA (Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application) was a nuclear-thermal engine. A reactor heated hydrogen propellant and exhausted it out the nozzle.
The engine was extensively and successfully ground tested.
Thrust ~ 250 kN
ISP ~ 840
(You didn't mention political considerations or thrust-to-weight ratio)
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
$endgroup$
How about NERVA?
NERVA (Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application) was a nuclear-thermal engine. A reactor heated hydrogen propellant and exhausted it out the nozzle.
The engine was extensively and successfully ground tested.
Thrust ~ 250 kN
ISP ~ 840
(You didn't mention political considerations or thrust-to-weight ratio)
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
78.6k4 gold badges233 silver badges337 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Nah, the T/W of NERVA is fine while not amazing. This would also fall under "low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up", since there are still considerable scaling gains.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I can live with NERVA, yes. I was hoping for something more modern/politically possible but that wasn't really specified in the question
$endgroup$
– Michael Stachowsky
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you need a data point for how such an engine may scale down, the smaller rd-0410 was also extensively tested.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelStachowsky Project Timberwind was the next generation nuclear-thermal -- no more political feasible but slightly more modern.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I'm coining a new phrase and claiming ownership: "thrust-to-dose ratio".
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Nah, the T/W of NERVA is fine while not amazing. This would also fall under "low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up", since there are still considerable scaling gains.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I can live with NERVA, yes. I was hoping for something more modern/politically possible but that wasn't really specified in the question
$endgroup$
– Michael Stachowsky
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you need a data point for how such an engine may scale down, the smaller rd-0410 was also extensively tested.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelStachowsky Project Timberwind was the next generation nuclear-thermal -- no more political feasible but slightly more modern.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I'm coining a new phrase and claiming ownership: "thrust-to-dose ratio".
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nah, the T/W of NERVA is fine while not amazing. This would also fall under "low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up", since there are still considerable scaling gains.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nah, the T/W of NERVA is fine while not amazing. This would also fall under "low thrust but only because it has never been scaled up", since there are still considerable scaling gains.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I can live with NERVA, yes. I was hoping for something more modern/politically possible but that wasn't really specified in the question
$endgroup$
– Michael Stachowsky
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I can live with NERVA, yes. I was hoping for something more modern/politically possible but that wasn't really specified in the question
$endgroup$
– Michael Stachowsky
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you need a data point for how such an engine may scale down, the smaller rd-0410 was also extensively tested.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you need a data point for how such an engine may scale down, the smaller rd-0410 was also extensively tested.
$endgroup$
– Hohmannfan♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelStachowsky Project Timberwind was the next generation nuclear-thermal -- no more political feasible but slightly more modern.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelStachowsky Project Timberwind was the next generation nuclear-thermal -- no more political feasible but slightly more modern.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I'm coining a new phrase and claiming ownership: "thrust-to-dose ratio".
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'm coining a new phrase and claiming ownership: "thrust-to-dose ratio".
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In general, thermal rockets can in theory have very good $I_SP$ (around 1000s), and provide high thrust.
Unlike chemical rockets, which by definition produce heavy exhaust gasses like $CO_2$, $CO$ or $H_2O$, a thermal rocket can pick any propellant. That would mean it's possible to eject pure hydrogen gas (which in the hotter cases will start to disassociate into mono-atomic hydrogen). The advantage of this is that lighter gasses have higher exhaust velocities at equal temperatures. A thermal rocket is limited by what temperature the engine can stand.
But eliminating the chemical reaction leaves the engine without an energy source for the heat. Some options:
- Using a reactor, Organic Marble's example.
- Concentrated solar power.
- Lasers from Earth.
On the ground, we could hook it up to the grid.
answered 8 hours ago
Hohmannfan♦Hohmannfan
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
factoid: lighter atoms (with +1 charge) also have higher Isp at a given acceleration voltage ($sim m^-1/2$)
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In general, thermal rockets can in theory have very good $I_SP$ (around 1000s), and provide high thrust.
Unlike chemical rockets, which by definition produce heavy exhaust gasses like $CO_2$, $CO$ or $H_2O$, a thermal rocket can pick any propellant. That would mean it's possible to eject pure hydrogen gas (which in the hotter cases will start to disassociate into mono-atomic hydrogen). The advantage of this is that lighter gasses have higher exhaust velocities at equal temperatures. A thermal rocket is limited by what temperature the engine can stand.
But eliminating the chemical reaction leaves the engine without an energy source for the heat. Some options:
- Using a reactor, Organic Marble's example.
- Concentrated solar power.
- Lasers from Earth.
On the ground, we could hook it up to the grid.
answered 8 hours ago
Hohmannfan♦Hohmannfan
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
factoid: lighter atoms (with +1 charge) also have higher Isp at a given acceleration voltage ($sim m^-1/2$)
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In general, thermal rockets can in theory have very good $I_SP$ (around 1000s), and provide high thrust.
Unlike chemical rockets, which by definition produce heavy exhaust gasses like $CO_2$, $CO$ or $H_2O$, a thermal rocket can pick any propellant. That would mean it's possible to eject pure hydrogen gas (which in the hotter cases will start to disassociate into mono-atomic hydrogen). The advantage of this is that lighter gasses have higher exhaust velocities at equal temperatures. A thermal rocket is limited by what temperature the engine can stand.
But eliminating the chemical reaction leaves the engine without an energy source for the heat. Some options:
- Using a reactor, Organic Marble's example.
- Concentrated solar power.
- Lasers from Earth.
On the ground, we could hook it up to the grid.
answered 8 hours ago
Hohmannfan♦Hohmannfan
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
$endgroup$
In general, thermal rockets can in theory have very good $I_SP$ (around 1000s), and provide high thrust.
Unlike chemical rockets, which by definition produce heavy exhaust gasses like $CO_2$, $CO$ or $H_2O$, a thermal rocket can pick any propellant. That would mean it's possible to eject pure hydrogen gas (which in the hotter cases will start to disassociate into mono-atomic hydrogen). The advantage of this is that lighter gasses have higher exhaust velocities at equal temperatures. A thermal rocket is limited by what temperature the engine can stand.
But eliminating the chemical reaction leaves the engine without an energy source for the heat. Some options:
- Using a reactor, Organic Marble's example.
- Concentrated solar power.
- Lasers from Earth.
On the ground, we could hook it up to the grid.
answered 8 hours ago
Hohmannfan♦Hohmannfan
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Hohmannfan♦Hohmannfan
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Hohmannfan♦Hohmannfan
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Hohmannfan♦Hohmannfan
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
12.8k1 gold badge47 silver badges105 bronze badges
$begingroup$
factoid: lighter atoms (with +1 charge) also have higher Isp at a given acceleration voltage ($sim m^-1/2$)
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
factoid: lighter atoms (with +1 charge) also have higher Isp at a given acceleration voltage ($sim m^-1/2$)
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
factoid: lighter atoms (with +1 charge) also have higher Isp at a given acceleration voltage ($sim m^-1/2$)
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
factoid: lighter atoms (with +1 charge) also have higher Isp at a given acceleration voltage ($sim m^-1/2$)
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago
add a comment
|
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$begingroup$
I thought I had one: What kind of engine does this Isp = 1600 refer to? Is it cubesat-friendly? but the thrust turns out to be a hundred *milli-newtons."
$endgroup$
– uhoh
5 hours ago