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What does my colleagues' question really mean?

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8

I have been a tenured faculty member at a math department in the US for a few years. Recently two colleagues of mine asked (apparently independently) why I do not have PhD students. I honestly explained my reasons to each of them. Also I added that despite that, if it is necessary I CAN take students. Neither of them commented my answer.

Should I understand these two questions literally? Or did the colleagues try to let me know in an indirect way that I am expected to have students? Is there a way to make sure whether my department is unhappy that I have no PhD students?

mathematics etiquette united-states

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edited 25 mins ago

RonJohn

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user112802 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Does this refer to not having PhD students, when it is normal for your department for everyone to be acting as an advisor for some students? You might want to check with your department on tenure expectations, as in some departments having students who are progressing towards graduation and possibly publishing can be part of the criteria.
  
  – BrianH
  10 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @BrianH: This does refer to PhD students. Corrected. And I am tenured.
  
  – user112802
  10 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  11
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  The most effective way to find out what your colleagues meant by the question is to ask them about it.
  
  – GrotesqueSI
  10 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I am curious as to the reasons you gave your colleagues... not so much out of my own curiosity, but to estimate your actual situation as well as their (at least semi-predictable) reactions... which may be as helpful to you as an answer to your literal question. That is, as I think you guess, "why don't you...?" is often a polite form of "you really should...", in the first place. And there are many "reasons" that can be given that will antagonize and alienate your colleagues. Can you add these details?
  
  – paul garrett
  7 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @eykanal you have deleted the best answer (by @GrotesqueSI) to the question "Is there a way to make sure whether my department is unhappy that I have no PhD students?"
  
  – Anonymous Physicist
  4 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

8

I have been a tenured faculty member at a math department in the US for a few years. Recently two colleagues of mine asked (apparently independently) why I do not have PhD students. I honestly explained my reasons to each of them. Also I added that despite that, if it is necessary I CAN take students. Neither of them commented my answer.

Should I understand these two questions literally? Or did the colleagues try to let me know in an indirect way that I am expected to have students? Is there a way to make sure whether my department is unhappy that I have no PhD students?

mathematics etiquette united-states

share|improve this question

edited 25 mins ago

RonJohn

10522 bronze badges

asked 10 hours ago

user112802user112802

4122 bronze badges

New contributor

user112802 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Does this refer to not having PhD students, when it is normal for your department for everyone to be acting as an advisor for some students? You might want to check with your department on tenure expectations, as in some departments having students who are progressing towards graduation and possibly publishing can be part of the criteria.
  
  – BrianH
  10 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @BrianH: This does refer to PhD students. Corrected. And I am tenured.
  
  – user112802
  10 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  11
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  The most effective way to find out what your colleagues meant by the question is to ask them about it.
  
  – GrotesqueSI
  10 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I am curious as to the reasons you gave your colleagues... not so much out of my own curiosity, but to estimate your actual situation as well as their (at least semi-predictable) reactions... which may be as helpful to you as an answer to your literal question. That is, as I think you guess, "why don't you...?" is often a polite form of "you really should...", in the first place. And there are many "reasons" that can be given that will antagonize and alienate your colleagues. Can you add these details?
  
  – paul garrett
  7 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @eykanal you have deleted the best answer (by @GrotesqueSI) to the question "Is there a way to make sure whether my department is unhappy that I have no PhD students?"
  
  – Anonymous Physicist
  4 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

I have been a tenured faculty member at a math department in the US for a few years. Recently two colleagues of mine asked (apparently independently) why I do not have PhD students. I honestly explained my reasons to each of them. Also I added that despite that, if it is necessary I CAN take students. Neither of them commented my answer.

Should I understand these two questions literally? Or did the colleagues try to let me know in an indirect way that I am expected to have students? Is there a way to make sure whether my department is unhappy that I have no PhD students?

mathematics etiquette united-states

share|improve this question

edited 25 mins ago

RonJohn

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asked 10 hours ago

user112802user112802

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New contributor

user112802 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this question

edited 25 mins ago

RonJohn

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user112802user112802

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share|improve this question

edited 25 mins ago

RonJohn

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asked 10 hours ago

user112802user112802

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edited 25 mins ago

RonJohn

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edited 25 mins ago

RonJohn

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asked 10 hours ago

user112802user112802

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9

It is impossible to read their minds, of course, but I think that they are at least expressing surprise that you don't have doctoral students. There may be a (very) mild rebuke in it, especially if it is thought to be a necessary element of the work.

But, there may be an implied warning, that, although they can't sanction you for not having students, there might be long term negative consequences for your career if you get by without accepting students. You don't say whether you have been asked to be an advisor and you don't say whether you have turned people down. If either is true then the warning, as well as the rebuke, might be a bit stronger.

But whether there are consequences or not depends on local custom at your place of employment as well as your other contributions to the profession.

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

BuffyBuffy

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• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, in PhD-granting departments (in math, in the U.S.) the expectation is that faculty supervise at least a few PhD's. At the same time, yes, doing other things instead may be viewed as doing one's share.
  
  – paul garrett
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

By and large, mathematicians have a tendency to express themselves logically and literally, much more so than the general population. If your colleagues asked you why you don’t have PhD students, it is reasonable to assume by default that their intent was to find out why you don’t have PhD students. That explanation is not the only conceivable one, but is at least as likely as any other.

As for any underlying subtext, hidden motives, subtle hints, passive aggressive behavior, a twisted sense of humor, or any number of other reasons why people (even mathematicians) sometimes say X when they mean Y: you’ll just have to ask them.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Dan RomikDan Romik

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9

It is impossible to read their minds, of course, but I think that they are at least expressing surprise that you don't have doctoral students. There may be a (very) mild rebuke in it, especially if it is thought to be a necessary element of the work.

But, there may be an implied warning, that, although they can't sanction you for not having students, there might be long term negative consequences for your career if you get by without accepting students. You don't say whether you have been asked to be an advisor and you don't say whether you have turned people down. If either is true then the warning, as well as the rebuke, might be a bit stronger.

But whether there are consequences or not depends on local custom at your place of employment as well as your other contributions to the profession.

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

BuffyBuffy

82k2121 gold badges252252 silver badges358358 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, in PhD-granting departments (in math, in the U.S.) the expectation is that faculty supervise at least a few PhD's. At the same time, yes, doing other things instead may be viewed as doing one's share.
  
  – paul garrett
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

9

It is impossible to read their minds, of course, but I think that they are at least expressing surprise that you don't have doctoral students. There may be a (very) mild rebuke in it, especially if it is thought to be a necessary element of the work.

But, there may be an implied warning, that, although they can't sanction you for not having students, there might be long term negative consequences for your career if you get by without accepting students. You don't say whether you have been asked to be an advisor and you don't say whether you have turned people down. If either is true then the warning, as well as the rebuke, might be a bit stronger.

But whether there are consequences or not depends on local custom at your place of employment as well as your other contributions to the profession.

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

BuffyBuffy

82k2121 gold badges252252 silver badges358358 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, in PhD-granting departments (in math, in the U.S.) the expectation is that faculty supervise at least a few PhD's. At the same time, yes, doing other things instead may be viewed as doing one's share.
  
  – paul garrett
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

It is impossible to read their minds, of course, but I think that they are at least expressing surprise that you don't have doctoral students. There may be a (very) mild rebuke in it, especially if it is thought to be a necessary element of the work.

But, there may be an implied warning, that, although they can't sanction you for not having students, there might be long term negative consequences for your career if you get by without accepting students. You don't say whether you have been asked to be an advisor and you don't say whether you have turned people down. If either is true then the warning, as well as the rebuke, might be a bit stronger.

But whether there are consequences or not depends on local custom at your place of employment as well as your other contributions to the profession.

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

BuffyBuffy

82k2121 gold badges252252 silver badges358358 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

BuffyBuffy

82k2121 gold badges252252 silver badges358358 bronze badges

answered 9 hours ago

BuffyBuffy

82k2121 gold badges252252 silver badges358358 bronze badges

answered 9 hours ago

BuffyBuffy

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3

By and large, mathematicians have a tendency to express themselves logically and literally, much more so than the general population. If your colleagues asked you why you don’t have PhD students, it is reasonable to assume by default that their intent was to find out why you don’t have PhD students. That explanation is not the only conceivable one, but is at least as likely as any other.

As for any underlying subtext, hidden motives, subtle hints, passive aggressive behavior, a twisted sense of humor, or any number of other reasons why people (even mathematicians) sometimes say X when they mean Y: you’ll just have to ask them.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Dan RomikDan Romik

93.6k2424 gold badges203203 silver badges312312 bronze badges

add a comment | 

3

By and large, mathematicians have a tendency to express themselves logically and literally, much more so than the general population. If your colleagues asked you why you don’t have PhD students, it is reasonable to assume by default that their intent was to find out why you don’t have PhD students. That explanation is not the only conceivable one, but is at least as likely as any other.

As for any underlying subtext, hidden motives, subtle hints, passive aggressive behavior, a twisted sense of humor, or any number of other reasons why people (even mathematicians) sometimes say X when they mean Y: you’ll just have to ask them.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Dan RomikDan Romik

93.6k2424 gold badges203203 silver badges312312 bronze badges

add a comment | 

By and large, mathematicians have a tendency to express themselves logically and literally, much more so than the general population. If your colleagues asked you why you don’t have PhD students, it is reasonable to assume by default that their intent was to find out why you don’t have PhD students. That explanation is not the only conceivable one, but is at least as likely as any other.

As for any underlying subtext, hidden motives, subtle hints, passive aggressive behavior, a twisted sense of humor, or any number of other reasons why people (even mathematicians) sometimes say X when they mean Y: you’ll just have to ask them.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Dan RomikDan Romik

93.6k2424 gold badges203203 silver badges312312 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Dan RomikDan Romik

93.6k2424 gold badges203203 silver badges312312 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

Dan RomikDan Romik

93.6k2424 gold badges203203 silver badges312312 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

Dan RomikDan Romik

93.6k2424 gold badges203203 silver badges312312 bronze badges