Federal Pacific 200a main panel problem with oversized 100a 2pole breakerSub-panel with single ground and common bar - with a twistCan I feed 2 sub-panels off one breaker?I need to add a subpanel for my electric car, need to know wire gauge/breaker for mainCan I use a 150A cable to feed through a 200A breaker subpanel?Should I make space for a new 50A breaker in a full panel or install a sub-panel?Adding sub panel, odd main panel configurationHow to deal with subpanel that does not have ground wire back to main panelUse existing 200A panel as temporary sub-panel off of new 320A service panelCan I feed a sub panel off my 200A service box? Or would I need to run wire from the inside breaker box?Advice on installing an attached garage 50A sub panel
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Federal Pacific 200a main panel problem with oversized 100a 2pole breaker
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Federal Pacific 200a main panel problem with oversized 100a 2pole breaker
Sub-panel with single ground and common bar - with a twistCan I feed 2 sub-panels off one breaker?I need to add a subpanel for my electric car, need to know wire gauge/breaker for mainCan I use a 150A cable to feed through a 200A breaker subpanel?Should I make space for a new 50A breaker in a full panel or install a sub-panel?Adding sub panel, odd main panel configurationHow to deal with subpanel that does not have ground wire back to main panelUse existing 200A panel as temporary sub-panel off of new 320A service panelCan I feed a sub panel off my 200A service box? Or would I need to run wire from the inside breaker box?Advice on installing an attached garage 50A sub panel
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There is a 200a FPE breaker box (yes, I am aware of all the problems). It is not in the homeowners budget to replace at this time. He has 2 issues:
- His panel is full
- His electric furnace is an older 100a furnace. The 100a breaker in the panel is a double pole but it also over crowds the adjoining spot on the right rail. So, essentially, his double 100a breaker is taking up 4 spots (2 on left rail and creeping over (preventing other breakers) and partially covering 2 spots on the right rail.
This is a problem because the home owner has to disconnect the 100a to plug in the 30a for the dryer. I advised him that is not ideal in any situation, but extra not ideal with a FPE panel.
I thought about installing a sub panel for him right next to the main panel and just re-route the dryer run to that one but I have not installed a sub panel before. I am competent in my ability to do so but would like to hear suggestions from others before I attempt that feat.
thanks!
subpanel
New contributor
add a comment |
There is a 200a FPE breaker box (yes, I am aware of all the problems). It is not in the homeowners budget to replace at this time. He has 2 issues:
- His panel is full
- His electric furnace is an older 100a furnace. The 100a breaker in the panel is a double pole but it also over crowds the adjoining spot on the right rail. So, essentially, his double 100a breaker is taking up 4 spots (2 on left rail and creeping over (preventing other breakers) and partially covering 2 spots on the right rail.
This is a problem because the home owner has to disconnect the 100a to plug in the 30a for the dryer. I advised him that is not ideal in any situation, but extra not ideal with a FPE panel.
I thought about installing a sub panel for him right next to the main panel and just re-route the dryer run to that one but I have not installed a sub panel before. I am competent in my ability to do so but would like to hear suggestions from others before I attempt that feat.
thanks!
subpanel
New contributor
Where would the subpanel connect? To that 100A breaker?
– JPhi1618
8 hours ago
Does the furnace really need the 100 amp breaker?
– JACK
8 hours ago
Is something like an Eaton retrofit kit in the budget?
– ThreePhaseEel
1 hour ago
Also, can you post the inside dimensions of that loadcenter cabinet?
– ThreePhaseEel
44 mins ago
add a comment |
There is a 200a FPE breaker box (yes, I am aware of all the problems). It is not in the homeowners budget to replace at this time. He has 2 issues:
- His panel is full
- His electric furnace is an older 100a furnace. The 100a breaker in the panel is a double pole but it also over crowds the adjoining spot on the right rail. So, essentially, his double 100a breaker is taking up 4 spots (2 on left rail and creeping over (preventing other breakers) and partially covering 2 spots on the right rail.
This is a problem because the home owner has to disconnect the 100a to plug in the 30a for the dryer. I advised him that is not ideal in any situation, but extra not ideal with a FPE panel.
I thought about installing a sub panel for him right next to the main panel and just re-route the dryer run to that one but I have not installed a sub panel before. I am competent in my ability to do so but would like to hear suggestions from others before I attempt that feat.
thanks!
subpanel
New contributor
There is a 200a FPE breaker box (yes, I am aware of all the problems). It is not in the homeowners budget to replace at this time. He has 2 issues:
- His panel is full
- His electric furnace is an older 100a furnace. The 100a breaker in the panel is a double pole but it also over crowds the adjoining spot on the right rail. So, essentially, his double 100a breaker is taking up 4 spots (2 on left rail and creeping over (preventing other breakers) and partially covering 2 spots on the right rail.
This is a problem because the home owner has to disconnect the 100a to plug in the 30a for the dryer. I advised him that is not ideal in any situation, but extra not ideal with a FPE panel.
I thought about installing a sub panel for him right next to the main panel and just re-route the dryer run to that one but I have not installed a sub panel before. I am competent in my ability to do so but would like to hear suggestions from others before I attempt that feat.
thanks!
subpanel
subpanel
New contributor
New contributor
edited 8 hours ago
Danyael
New contributor
asked 9 hours ago
DanyaelDanyael
262 bronze badges
262 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
Where would the subpanel connect? To that 100A breaker?
– JPhi1618
8 hours ago
Does the furnace really need the 100 amp breaker?
– JACK
8 hours ago
Is something like an Eaton retrofit kit in the budget?
– ThreePhaseEel
1 hour ago
Also, can you post the inside dimensions of that loadcenter cabinet?
– ThreePhaseEel
44 mins ago
add a comment |
Where would the subpanel connect? To that 100A breaker?
– JPhi1618
8 hours ago
Does the furnace really need the 100 amp breaker?
– JACK
8 hours ago
Is something like an Eaton retrofit kit in the budget?
– ThreePhaseEel
1 hour ago
Also, can you post the inside dimensions of that loadcenter cabinet?
– ThreePhaseEel
44 mins ago
Where would the subpanel connect? To that 100A breaker?
– JPhi1618
8 hours ago
Where would the subpanel connect? To that 100A breaker?
– JPhi1618
8 hours ago
Does the furnace really need the 100 amp breaker?
– JACK
8 hours ago
Does the furnace really need the 100 amp breaker?
– JACK
8 hours ago
Is something like an Eaton retrofit kit in the budget?
– ThreePhaseEel
1 hour ago
Is something like an Eaton retrofit kit in the budget?
– ThreePhaseEel
1 hour ago
Also, can you post the inside dimensions of that loadcenter cabinet?
– ThreePhaseEel
44 mins ago
Also, can you post the inside dimensions of that loadcenter cabinet?
– ThreePhaseEel
44 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
The 100A breaker is overcrowding the other slots for a reason: to enforce stab limits. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and FPE got that right.
If you did what you wanted to, you would have 130A on those two stabs. That's over stab limits for a lot of modern panels! If you've ever seen panels where the main breaker is in the upper left corner and nothing is allowed across from it even though there's nothing wrong with those spaces, that is why.
So if you have felt righteous to do this because you feel you are working around a panel defect, no. This is a plain case of playing swap-the-breaker on an overfull and overloaded panel, with known stab-reliability issues, doing the very thing that has everyone spooked.
The 100A breaker is not double size. It is normal size 2-pole. The other breakers are double-stuff. This is a 12-space panel with 8 spaces double-stuffed. A 12-space panel on a 200A, all-electric house. One has to woder if this was permitted in the first place!
Kill it with fire before it kills you with fire
If you're family, stop fooling around and swap the main panel. It's not any harder than a subpanel, you just have to work in the dark because the meter is pulled. Shop smart for a 40-space of a sensible physical dimension (CH, QO) and combo-pack that includes some breakers. Don't even attempt to solve AFCI or GFCI issues, aluminum wiring issues (loop back on those later, just use Al-rated breakers) etc. If the AHJ insists on increasing project scope to include ancillary stuff like that, then just don't pull a permit and do it underground - but do it correctly. Do double-check your wire sizes - I see too many 30s and not enough 15s.
If you're a contractor, run... this panel is a fire-starter, and if one does, your insurer may decide you're on your own!
Why not a subpanel?
Because I don't believe it's a significant cost savings over just swapping the main panel, it's a band-aid on a very bad situation, and the heat needs the whole 100A, there isn't spare (electrical) space in the subpanel for anything.
It's a freaking forgasi; put in a forty (and the permit? forgetaboutit), +1
– Mazura
12 mins ago
add a comment |
It sounds like a sub panel is the way to go, in my opinion as well, in this particular case. I agree.
Any sub panel installed will have to have any connections made between the ground and the neutrals in that sub panel REMOVED... Reason being that if there are any ground faults that occur within the newly installed sub panel's branch circuits..., This way, any ground faults will travel only through the grounding system and not the neutral which goes back to your main panel.
I'm not sure if your intentions are to pull a homeowner's permit or something else to have it inspected, but that is entirely your call. I would.
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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votes
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votes
The 100A breaker is overcrowding the other slots for a reason: to enforce stab limits. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and FPE got that right.
If you did what you wanted to, you would have 130A on those two stabs. That's over stab limits for a lot of modern panels! If you've ever seen panels where the main breaker is in the upper left corner and nothing is allowed across from it even though there's nothing wrong with those spaces, that is why.
So if you have felt righteous to do this because you feel you are working around a panel defect, no. This is a plain case of playing swap-the-breaker on an overfull and overloaded panel, with known stab-reliability issues, doing the very thing that has everyone spooked.
The 100A breaker is not double size. It is normal size 2-pole. The other breakers are double-stuff. This is a 12-space panel with 8 spaces double-stuffed. A 12-space panel on a 200A, all-electric house. One has to woder if this was permitted in the first place!
Kill it with fire before it kills you with fire
If you're family, stop fooling around and swap the main panel. It's not any harder than a subpanel, you just have to work in the dark because the meter is pulled. Shop smart for a 40-space of a sensible physical dimension (CH, QO) and combo-pack that includes some breakers. Don't even attempt to solve AFCI or GFCI issues, aluminum wiring issues (loop back on those later, just use Al-rated breakers) etc. If the AHJ insists on increasing project scope to include ancillary stuff like that, then just don't pull a permit and do it underground - but do it correctly. Do double-check your wire sizes - I see too many 30s and not enough 15s.
If you're a contractor, run... this panel is a fire-starter, and if one does, your insurer may decide you're on your own!
Why not a subpanel?
Because I don't believe it's a significant cost savings over just swapping the main panel, it's a band-aid on a very bad situation, and the heat needs the whole 100A, there isn't spare (electrical) space in the subpanel for anything.
It's a freaking forgasi; put in a forty (and the permit? forgetaboutit), +1
– Mazura
12 mins ago
add a comment |
The 100A breaker is overcrowding the other slots for a reason: to enforce stab limits. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and FPE got that right.
If you did what you wanted to, you would have 130A on those two stabs. That's over stab limits for a lot of modern panels! If you've ever seen panels where the main breaker is in the upper left corner and nothing is allowed across from it even though there's nothing wrong with those spaces, that is why.
So if you have felt righteous to do this because you feel you are working around a panel defect, no. This is a plain case of playing swap-the-breaker on an overfull and overloaded panel, with known stab-reliability issues, doing the very thing that has everyone spooked.
The 100A breaker is not double size. It is normal size 2-pole. The other breakers are double-stuff. This is a 12-space panel with 8 spaces double-stuffed. A 12-space panel on a 200A, all-electric house. One has to woder if this was permitted in the first place!
Kill it with fire before it kills you with fire
If you're family, stop fooling around and swap the main panel. It's not any harder than a subpanel, you just have to work in the dark because the meter is pulled. Shop smart for a 40-space of a sensible physical dimension (CH, QO) and combo-pack that includes some breakers. Don't even attempt to solve AFCI or GFCI issues, aluminum wiring issues (loop back on those later, just use Al-rated breakers) etc. If the AHJ insists on increasing project scope to include ancillary stuff like that, then just don't pull a permit and do it underground - but do it correctly. Do double-check your wire sizes - I see too many 30s and not enough 15s.
If you're a contractor, run... this panel is a fire-starter, and if one does, your insurer may decide you're on your own!
Why not a subpanel?
Because I don't believe it's a significant cost savings over just swapping the main panel, it's a band-aid on a very bad situation, and the heat needs the whole 100A, there isn't spare (electrical) space in the subpanel for anything.
It's a freaking forgasi; put in a forty (and the permit? forgetaboutit), +1
– Mazura
12 mins ago
add a comment |
The 100A breaker is overcrowding the other slots for a reason: to enforce stab limits. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and FPE got that right.
If you did what you wanted to, you would have 130A on those two stabs. That's over stab limits for a lot of modern panels! If you've ever seen panels where the main breaker is in the upper left corner and nothing is allowed across from it even though there's nothing wrong with those spaces, that is why.
So if you have felt righteous to do this because you feel you are working around a panel defect, no. This is a plain case of playing swap-the-breaker on an overfull and overloaded panel, with known stab-reliability issues, doing the very thing that has everyone spooked.
The 100A breaker is not double size. It is normal size 2-pole. The other breakers are double-stuff. This is a 12-space panel with 8 spaces double-stuffed. A 12-space panel on a 200A, all-electric house. One has to woder if this was permitted in the first place!
Kill it with fire before it kills you with fire
If you're family, stop fooling around and swap the main panel. It's not any harder than a subpanel, you just have to work in the dark because the meter is pulled. Shop smart for a 40-space of a sensible physical dimension (CH, QO) and combo-pack that includes some breakers. Don't even attempt to solve AFCI or GFCI issues, aluminum wiring issues (loop back on those later, just use Al-rated breakers) etc. If the AHJ insists on increasing project scope to include ancillary stuff like that, then just don't pull a permit and do it underground - but do it correctly. Do double-check your wire sizes - I see too many 30s and not enough 15s.
If you're a contractor, run... this panel is a fire-starter, and if one does, your insurer may decide you're on your own!
Why not a subpanel?
Because I don't believe it's a significant cost savings over just swapping the main panel, it's a band-aid on a very bad situation, and the heat needs the whole 100A, there isn't spare (electrical) space in the subpanel for anything.
The 100A breaker is overcrowding the other slots for a reason: to enforce stab limits. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and FPE got that right.
If you did what you wanted to, you would have 130A on those two stabs. That's over stab limits for a lot of modern panels! If you've ever seen panels where the main breaker is in the upper left corner and nothing is allowed across from it even though there's nothing wrong with those spaces, that is why.
So if you have felt righteous to do this because you feel you are working around a panel defect, no. This is a plain case of playing swap-the-breaker on an overfull and overloaded panel, with known stab-reliability issues, doing the very thing that has everyone spooked.
The 100A breaker is not double size. It is normal size 2-pole. The other breakers are double-stuff. This is a 12-space panel with 8 spaces double-stuffed. A 12-space panel on a 200A, all-electric house. One has to woder if this was permitted in the first place!
Kill it with fire before it kills you with fire
If you're family, stop fooling around and swap the main panel. It's not any harder than a subpanel, you just have to work in the dark because the meter is pulled. Shop smart for a 40-space of a sensible physical dimension (CH, QO) and combo-pack that includes some breakers. Don't even attempt to solve AFCI or GFCI issues, aluminum wiring issues (loop back on those later, just use Al-rated breakers) etc. If the AHJ insists on increasing project scope to include ancillary stuff like that, then just don't pull a permit and do it underground - but do it correctly. Do double-check your wire sizes - I see too many 30s and not enough 15s.
If you're a contractor, run... this panel is a fire-starter, and if one does, your insurer may decide you're on your own!
Why not a subpanel?
Because I don't believe it's a significant cost savings over just swapping the main panel, it's a band-aid on a very bad situation, and the heat needs the whole 100A, there isn't spare (electrical) space in the subpanel for anything.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
HarperHarper
94.3k7 gold badges70 silver badges194 bronze badges
94.3k7 gold badges70 silver badges194 bronze badges
It's a freaking forgasi; put in a forty (and the permit? forgetaboutit), +1
– Mazura
12 mins ago
add a comment |
It's a freaking forgasi; put in a forty (and the permit? forgetaboutit), +1
– Mazura
12 mins ago
It's a freaking forgasi; put in a forty (and the permit? forgetaboutit), +1
– Mazura
12 mins ago
It's a freaking forgasi; put in a forty (and the permit? forgetaboutit), +1
– Mazura
12 mins ago
add a comment |
It sounds like a sub panel is the way to go, in my opinion as well, in this particular case. I agree.
Any sub panel installed will have to have any connections made between the ground and the neutrals in that sub panel REMOVED... Reason being that if there are any ground faults that occur within the newly installed sub panel's branch circuits..., This way, any ground faults will travel only through the grounding system and not the neutral which goes back to your main panel.
I'm not sure if your intentions are to pull a homeowner's permit or something else to have it inspected, but that is entirely your call. I would.
add a comment |
It sounds like a sub panel is the way to go, in my opinion as well, in this particular case. I agree.
Any sub panel installed will have to have any connections made between the ground and the neutrals in that sub panel REMOVED... Reason being that if there are any ground faults that occur within the newly installed sub panel's branch circuits..., This way, any ground faults will travel only through the grounding system and not the neutral which goes back to your main panel.
I'm not sure if your intentions are to pull a homeowner's permit or something else to have it inspected, but that is entirely your call. I would.
add a comment |
It sounds like a sub panel is the way to go, in my opinion as well, in this particular case. I agree.
Any sub panel installed will have to have any connections made between the ground and the neutrals in that sub panel REMOVED... Reason being that if there are any ground faults that occur within the newly installed sub panel's branch circuits..., This way, any ground faults will travel only through the grounding system and not the neutral which goes back to your main panel.
I'm not sure if your intentions are to pull a homeowner's permit or something else to have it inspected, but that is entirely your call. I would.
It sounds like a sub panel is the way to go, in my opinion as well, in this particular case. I agree.
Any sub panel installed will have to have any connections made between the ground and the neutrals in that sub panel REMOVED... Reason being that if there are any ground faults that occur within the newly installed sub panel's branch circuits..., This way, any ground faults will travel only through the grounding system and not the neutral which goes back to your main panel.
I'm not sure if your intentions are to pull a homeowner's permit or something else to have it inspected, but that is entirely your call. I would.
answered 8 hours ago
Retired ElectricianRetired Electrician
6241 silver badge7 bronze badges
6241 silver badge7 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Danyael is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Where would the subpanel connect? To that 100A breaker?
– JPhi1618
8 hours ago
Does the furnace really need the 100 amp breaker?
– JACK
8 hours ago
Is something like an Eaton retrofit kit in the budget?
– ThreePhaseEel
1 hour ago
Also, can you post the inside dimensions of that loadcenter cabinet?
– ThreePhaseEel
44 mins ago