Is there a minimum amount of electricity that can be fed back into the grid?What happens to excess energy fed into the power grid?Can you turn Diesel/Petrol/Gasoline into electricity without an explosion?Poor pf value thru' energy meter on max. solar power exported to gridIdentify when the inverter is pumping energy back into the gridHow to partially drive a load with respective impact on my electricity meter?In the USA, the grid transmits power at/around 60Hz. How big of a frequency deviation can the grid handle before relays trip and cause a blackout?How is electricity from a power station added to the grid?How is the amount of outgoing power controlled in a grid tie inverter?Calculating realistic solar cell outputHow can I combine 10 amp current from solar panel with power from the national grid?

What is the fundamental difference between catching whales and hunting other animals?

Cycles one side transparency

Why was no first prize awarded at a competition?

How did Einstein know the speed of light was constant?

Can you take the Dodge action while prone?

Will Jimmy fall off his platform?

Is it bad to suddenly introduce another element to your fantasy world a good ways into the story?

soda water first stored in refrigerator and then outside

Why do Martians have to wear space helmets?

How did the IEC decide to create kibibytes?

Was the 45.9°C temperature in France in June 2019 the highest ever recorded in France?

Why did Super-VGA offer the 5:4 1280*1024 resolution?

How to say "just a precision" properly in English?

Machine Learning Golf: Multiplication

Is there an upper limit on the number of cards a character can declare to draw from the Deck of Many Things?

How to reclaim personal item I've lent to the office without burning bridges?

Park the computer

Any way to meet code with 40.7% or 40.44% conduit fill?

Do grungs have a written language?

Do Goblin tokens count as Goblins?

What instances can be solved today by modern solvers (pure LP)?

My professor has told me he will be the corresponding author. Will it hurt my future career?

Chilling juice in copper vessel

An elegant aspect for enumerate the equations of a book



Is there a minimum amount of electricity that can be fed back into the grid?


What happens to excess energy fed into the power grid?Can you turn Diesel/Petrol/Gasoline into electricity without an explosion?Poor pf value thru' energy meter on max. solar power exported to gridIdentify when the inverter is pumping energy back into the gridHow to partially drive a load with respective impact on my electricity meter?In the USA, the grid transmits power at/around 60Hz. How big of a frequency deviation can the grid handle before relays trip and cause a blackout?How is electricity from a power station added to the grid?How is the amount of outgoing power controlled in a grid tie inverter?Calculating realistic solar cell outputHow can I combine 10 amp current from solar panel with power from the national grid?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








2












$begingroup$


This is not fully related to electrical engineering, but I have been reading lately about Feed-in-Tariffs and solar energy production and I cannot find any information on the amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    That's entierly up to the grid owner, your deal with them and the capabilities of the energy meter. Have you asked your grid owner?
    $endgroup$
    – winny
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Not really. The question was more for general understanding and getting a better idea of the solar-power production and managing excessive generation.
    $endgroup$
    – filtfilt
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @winny - That's entirely up to the grid owner - and local laws, In my area, Florida, USA, the grid owner must give you credit for reverse flow, but I'm not sure what happens if the overall net for the month is reverse.
    $endgroup$
    – Mattman944
    8 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The question has regulatory and technical aspects. If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits. I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not. If you onl;y fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care. However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be accounted for.
    $endgroup$
    – Russell McMahon
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Mattman944 Sure, but it will be quantified down to the whole kWh +- some accuracy (required to be very good by law, but not infinite).
    $endgroup$
    – winny
    7 hours ago

















2












$begingroup$


This is not fully related to electrical engineering, but I have been reading lately about Feed-in-Tariffs and solar energy production and I cannot find any information on the amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    That's entierly up to the grid owner, your deal with them and the capabilities of the energy meter. Have you asked your grid owner?
    $endgroup$
    – winny
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Not really. The question was more for general understanding and getting a better idea of the solar-power production and managing excessive generation.
    $endgroup$
    – filtfilt
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @winny - That's entirely up to the grid owner - and local laws, In my area, Florida, USA, the grid owner must give you credit for reverse flow, but I'm not sure what happens if the overall net for the month is reverse.
    $endgroup$
    – Mattman944
    8 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The question has regulatory and technical aspects. If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits. I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not. If you onl;y fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care. However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be accounted for.
    $endgroup$
    – Russell McMahon
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Mattman944 Sure, but it will be quantified down to the whole kWh +- some accuracy (required to be very good by law, but not infinite).
    $endgroup$
    – winny
    7 hours ago













2












2








2





$begingroup$


This is not fully related to electrical engineering, but I have been reading lately about Feed-in-Tariffs and solar energy production and I cannot find any information on the amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




This is not fully related to electrical engineering, but I have been reading lately about Feed-in-Tariffs and solar energy production and I cannot find any information on the amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?







energy power-engineering solar-energy power-grid






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 7 hours ago









Russell McMahon

120k9 gold badges168 silver badges304 bronze badges




120k9 gold badges168 silver badges304 bronze badges










asked 8 hours ago









filtfiltfiltfilt

1384 bronze badges




1384 bronze badges







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    That's entierly up to the grid owner, your deal with them and the capabilities of the energy meter. Have you asked your grid owner?
    $endgroup$
    – winny
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Not really. The question was more for general understanding and getting a better idea of the solar-power production and managing excessive generation.
    $endgroup$
    – filtfilt
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @winny - That's entirely up to the grid owner - and local laws, In my area, Florida, USA, the grid owner must give you credit for reverse flow, but I'm not sure what happens if the overall net for the month is reverse.
    $endgroup$
    – Mattman944
    8 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The question has regulatory and technical aspects. If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits. I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not. If you onl;y fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care. However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be accounted for.
    $endgroup$
    – Russell McMahon
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Mattman944 Sure, but it will be quantified down to the whole kWh +- some accuracy (required to be very good by law, but not infinite).
    $endgroup$
    – winny
    7 hours ago












  • 3




    $begingroup$
    That's entierly up to the grid owner, your deal with them and the capabilities of the energy meter. Have you asked your grid owner?
    $endgroup$
    – winny
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Not really. The question was more for general understanding and getting a better idea of the solar-power production and managing excessive generation.
    $endgroup$
    – filtfilt
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @winny - That's entirely up to the grid owner - and local laws, In my area, Florida, USA, the grid owner must give you credit for reverse flow, but I'm not sure what happens if the overall net for the month is reverse.
    $endgroup$
    – Mattman944
    8 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The question has regulatory and technical aspects. If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits. I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not. If you onl;y fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care. However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be accounted for.
    $endgroup$
    – Russell McMahon
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Mattman944 Sure, but it will be quantified down to the whole kWh +- some accuracy (required to be very good by law, but not infinite).
    $endgroup$
    – winny
    7 hours ago







3




3




$begingroup$
That's entierly up to the grid owner, your deal with them and the capabilities of the energy meter. Have you asked your grid owner?
$endgroup$
– winny
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
That's entierly up to the grid owner, your deal with them and the capabilities of the energy meter. Have you asked your grid owner?
$endgroup$
– winny
8 hours ago













$begingroup$
Not really. The question was more for general understanding and getting a better idea of the solar-power production and managing excessive generation.
$endgroup$
– filtfilt
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Not really. The question was more for general understanding and getting a better idea of the solar-power production and managing excessive generation.
$endgroup$
– filtfilt
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
@winny - That's entirely up to the grid owner - and local laws, In my area, Florida, USA, the grid owner must give you credit for reverse flow, but I'm not sure what happens if the overall net for the month is reverse.
$endgroup$
– Mattman944
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
@winny - That's entirely up to the grid owner - and local laws, In my area, Florida, USA, the grid owner must give you credit for reverse flow, but I'm not sure what happens if the overall net for the month is reverse.
$endgroup$
– Mattman944
8 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
The question has regulatory and technical aspects. If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits. I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not. If you onl;y fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care. However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be accounted for.
$endgroup$
– Russell McMahon
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
The question has regulatory and technical aspects. If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits. I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not. If you onl;y fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care. However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be accounted for.
$endgroup$
– Russell McMahon
8 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@Mattman944 Sure, but it will be quantified down to the whole kWh +- some accuracy (required to be very good by law, but not infinite).
$endgroup$
– winny
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Mattman944 Sure, but it will be quantified down to the whole kWh +- some accuracy (required to be very good by law, but not infinite).
$endgroup$
– winny
7 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

As others have already noted, the question has both regulatory and technical aspects. This answer considers the technical aspects primarily, but includes some regulatory background information. Because regulations change and vary by locale, any future readers of this answer should look for the most current local regulatory information rather than relying solely on information here.



So with that said, let's look at the heart of the question:




My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




There are a couple of ways to interpret this, so to give a complete answer, I'll rephrase individual aspects of the question and answer each one separately.



Can every amount of energy be fed into the grid?



The answer to this is generally "no" from both a regulatory and technical viewpoint.



From the regulatory aspect, many Feed-In Tariff (FIT) schemes impose a cap on the size of a photovoltaic (PV) system that is eligible. For instance, the Los Angeles Department of Power & Water has a commercial PV size range of 30 kW to 3 MW for their current FIT



From a technical aspect, distribution systems, which is generally the term used to describe the part of the electric grid from the substation to individual homes or businesses, have physical limits as to the current they can carry. A typical distribution transformer, like the one that feeds my house, also has an associated fuse and the fuse represents a hard limit on power. The one on "my" transformer is rated 10A at 14.4kV, which is the distribution voltage in this area.



Should the electric energy be stored in integral kWh amounts?



Batteries are a very useful adjunct to PV systems. Obviously, PV systems only generate during the day when the sun is shining, so having a way to store some of that energy for later use is extremely useful to be able to continue to use energy when the sun is not shining. However, from a regulatory viewpoint, I don't know of any currently available FIT that requires the use of a storage systems. I think what might actually be meant by this question is the next interpretation.



What is the smallest increment that can be measured by a net meter?



The use of a net meter is often used in association with a FIT. In the old days, energy only went one way -- from a utility's generation plant toward the end users of that energy. Meters designed for that scenario measure kWh in one direction only. With a two-way flow of power in the scenario in which sometimes the energy goes from the grid into your house and sometimes energy goes to the grid from your own local generation, what is often used is a net meter. As suggested in the name it registers the net energy (supplied minus delivered) which can then be used to calculate the bill (or payment!) based on the current tariff, which might be a FIT. Meters for that purpose are generally very accurate -- a typical residential meter in North America is an ANSI standard class 0.2 meter which basically means that its measurement is within 0.2% of the true value. These meters also have a starting load requirement from the same standard which is 0.1A for the typical 200A circuit, which means that a current as low as 100mA (at 240V, that's 24W or 0.024kW) is enough to be measured accurately. For that reason, there are essentially no technical or regulatory limits on the smallest amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



I hope that that thoroughly answers your questions. If not, feel free to leave a comment and I'll try to address any aspects not yet covered.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$

    The question has regulatory and technical aspects.

    Regulatory and company practice aspects are outside this forums scope and my knowledge.



    Technically: If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits.



    I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not.



    If there was a lower limit then storing the energy and sending it in bursts would overcome this BUT there would be no economic sense in doing this.

    If say 10 Watts did not register then in a month you'd accumulate

    10W x 24 h/d x 30d = 7.2 units. Depending on what you are paid for energy that will probably be worth a dollar or two.

    If you already had a battery then you would not need to make decisions of this sort, and you would never justify addition of a battery system for such small amounts.



    If you only fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care.

    However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be able to be accounted for.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$




















      0












      $begingroup$


      My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff




      Yes. Few systems have storage.




      ... or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kW or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




      What you are trying to say is, "should the energy (kWh) be accumulated and then fed back in at a pre-determined power level (kW) in a kind of 'burst mode'.



      The second scenario is unlikely at the moment as the grid generally likes steady state. What is likely to happen in future is that the "smart grid" would like what you are offering so that they could have you build up reserve energy and call it in on demand. One significant source of short term storage would be electric vehicle batteries when left on charge. On receipt of a signal from the grid they could be switched into supply mode to help ride through a short-term peak demand.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$




















        0












        $begingroup$


        My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



        I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?




        A kWh is not a lot. Ask yourself the reverse question: is there a minimum amount I would be billed for? No, even if your load was a single phone charger it would very slowly tick upwards.



        I have a 4kW system, and rather than a single net meter I have two (essentially identical) meters, one in one out. Both are capable of measuring individual watt-hours; the meter flashes a light for every watt-hour that goes past. So on a bright day the export meter flashes slightly faster than once a second. On dim days many seconds can go by between movements, but they are still counted.



        Your meter will almost certainly show two decimal places, corresponding to 10Wh. However, at billing/feed-in-tariff time, you only send in the whole kWh and are paid for those. Fractional kWh you can carry over.



        (The UK system at the time I subscribed pays for every kWh that comes off the panels, regardless of whether I use it or export it. Your local currently available scheme may vary.)



        If you want the technical details, have a look at an example meter and the IEC standard for accuracy.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          Your Answer






          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
          return StackExchange.using("schematics", function ()
          StackExchange.schematics.init();
          );
          , "cicuitlab");

          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "135"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader:
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          ,
          onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );













          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f446770%2fis-there-a-minimum-amount-of-electricity-that-can-be-fed-back-into-the-grid%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes








          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          3












          $begingroup$

          As others have already noted, the question has both regulatory and technical aspects. This answer considers the technical aspects primarily, but includes some regulatory background information. Because regulations change and vary by locale, any future readers of this answer should look for the most current local regulatory information rather than relying solely on information here.



          So with that said, let's look at the heart of the question:




          My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




          There are a couple of ways to interpret this, so to give a complete answer, I'll rephrase individual aspects of the question and answer each one separately.



          Can every amount of energy be fed into the grid?



          The answer to this is generally "no" from both a regulatory and technical viewpoint.



          From the regulatory aspect, many Feed-In Tariff (FIT) schemes impose a cap on the size of a photovoltaic (PV) system that is eligible. For instance, the Los Angeles Department of Power & Water has a commercial PV size range of 30 kW to 3 MW for their current FIT



          From a technical aspect, distribution systems, which is generally the term used to describe the part of the electric grid from the substation to individual homes or businesses, have physical limits as to the current they can carry. A typical distribution transformer, like the one that feeds my house, also has an associated fuse and the fuse represents a hard limit on power. The one on "my" transformer is rated 10A at 14.4kV, which is the distribution voltage in this area.



          Should the electric energy be stored in integral kWh amounts?



          Batteries are a very useful adjunct to PV systems. Obviously, PV systems only generate during the day when the sun is shining, so having a way to store some of that energy for later use is extremely useful to be able to continue to use energy when the sun is not shining. However, from a regulatory viewpoint, I don't know of any currently available FIT that requires the use of a storage systems. I think what might actually be meant by this question is the next interpretation.



          What is the smallest increment that can be measured by a net meter?



          The use of a net meter is often used in association with a FIT. In the old days, energy only went one way -- from a utility's generation plant toward the end users of that energy. Meters designed for that scenario measure kWh in one direction only. With a two-way flow of power in the scenario in which sometimes the energy goes from the grid into your house and sometimes energy goes to the grid from your own local generation, what is often used is a net meter. As suggested in the name it registers the net energy (supplied minus delivered) which can then be used to calculate the bill (or payment!) based on the current tariff, which might be a FIT. Meters for that purpose are generally very accurate -- a typical residential meter in North America is an ANSI standard class 0.2 meter which basically means that its measurement is within 0.2% of the true value. These meters also have a starting load requirement from the same standard which is 0.1A for the typical 200A circuit, which means that a current as low as 100mA (at 240V, that's 24W or 0.024kW) is enough to be measured accurately. For that reason, there are essentially no technical or regulatory limits on the smallest amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



          I hope that that thoroughly answers your questions. If not, feel free to leave a comment and I'll try to address any aspects not yet covered.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$

















            3












            $begingroup$

            As others have already noted, the question has both regulatory and technical aspects. This answer considers the technical aspects primarily, but includes some regulatory background information. Because regulations change and vary by locale, any future readers of this answer should look for the most current local regulatory information rather than relying solely on information here.



            So with that said, let's look at the heart of the question:




            My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




            There are a couple of ways to interpret this, so to give a complete answer, I'll rephrase individual aspects of the question and answer each one separately.



            Can every amount of energy be fed into the grid?



            The answer to this is generally "no" from both a regulatory and technical viewpoint.



            From the regulatory aspect, many Feed-In Tariff (FIT) schemes impose a cap on the size of a photovoltaic (PV) system that is eligible. For instance, the Los Angeles Department of Power & Water has a commercial PV size range of 30 kW to 3 MW for their current FIT



            From a technical aspect, distribution systems, which is generally the term used to describe the part of the electric grid from the substation to individual homes or businesses, have physical limits as to the current they can carry. A typical distribution transformer, like the one that feeds my house, also has an associated fuse and the fuse represents a hard limit on power. The one on "my" transformer is rated 10A at 14.4kV, which is the distribution voltage in this area.



            Should the electric energy be stored in integral kWh amounts?



            Batteries are a very useful adjunct to PV systems. Obviously, PV systems only generate during the day when the sun is shining, so having a way to store some of that energy for later use is extremely useful to be able to continue to use energy when the sun is not shining. However, from a regulatory viewpoint, I don't know of any currently available FIT that requires the use of a storage systems. I think what might actually be meant by this question is the next interpretation.



            What is the smallest increment that can be measured by a net meter?



            The use of a net meter is often used in association with a FIT. In the old days, energy only went one way -- from a utility's generation plant toward the end users of that energy. Meters designed for that scenario measure kWh in one direction only. With a two-way flow of power in the scenario in which sometimes the energy goes from the grid into your house and sometimes energy goes to the grid from your own local generation, what is often used is a net meter. As suggested in the name it registers the net energy (supplied minus delivered) which can then be used to calculate the bill (or payment!) based on the current tariff, which might be a FIT. Meters for that purpose are generally very accurate -- a typical residential meter in North America is an ANSI standard class 0.2 meter which basically means that its measurement is within 0.2% of the true value. These meters also have a starting load requirement from the same standard which is 0.1A for the typical 200A circuit, which means that a current as low as 100mA (at 240V, that's 24W or 0.024kW) is enough to be measured accurately. For that reason, there are essentially no technical or regulatory limits on the smallest amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



            I hope that that thoroughly answers your questions. If not, feel free to leave a comment and I'll try to address any aspects not yet covered.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$















              3












              3








              3





              $begingroup$

              As others have already noted, the question has both regulatory and technical aspects. This answer considers the technical aspects primarily, but includes some regulatory background information. Because regulations change and vary by locale, any future readers of this answer should look for the most current local regulatory information rather than relying solely on information here.



              So with that said, let's look at the heart of the question:




              My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




              There are a couple of ways to interpret this, so to give a complete answer, I'll rephrase individual aspects of the question and answer each one separately.



              Can every amount of energy be fed into the grid?



              The answer to this is generally "no" from both a regulatory and technical viewpoint.



              From the regulatory aspect, many Feed-In Tariff (FIT) schemes impose a cap on the size of a photovoltaic (PV) system that is eligible. For instance, the Los Angeles Department of Power & Water has a commercial PV size range of 30 kW to 3 MW for their current FIT



              From a technical aspect, distribution systems, which is generally the term used to describe the part of the electric grid from the substation to individual homes or businesses, have physical limits as to the current they can carry. A typical distribution transformer, like the one that feeds my house, also has an associated fuse and the fuse represents a hard limit on power. The one on "my" transformer is rated 10A at 14.4kV, which is the distribution voltage in this area.



              Should the electric energy be stored in integral kWh amounts?



              Batteries are a very useful adjunct to PV systems. Obviously, PV systems only generate during the day when the sun is shining, so having a way to store some of that energy for later use is extremely useful to be able to continue to use energy when the sun is not shining. However, from a regulatory viewpoint, I don't know of any currently available FIT that requires the use of a storage systems. I think what might actually be meant by this question is the next interpretation.



              What is the smallest increment that can be measured by a net meter?



              The use of a net meter is often used in association with a FIT. In the old days, energy only went one way -- from a utility's generation plant toward the end users of that energy. Meters designed for that scenario measure kWh in one direction only. With a two-way flow of power in the scenario in which sometimes the energy goes from the grid into your house and sometimes energy goes to the grid from your own local generation, what is often used is a net meter. As suggested in the name it registers the net energy (supplied minus delivered) which can then be used to calculate the bill (or payment!) based on the current tariff, which might be a FIT. Meters for that purpose are generally very accurate -- a typical residential meter in North America is an ANSI standard class 0.2 meter which basically means that its measurement is within 0.2% of the true value. These meters also have a starting load requirement from the same standard which is 0.1A for the typical 200A circuit, which means that a current as low as 100mA (at 240V, that's 24W or 0.024kW) is enough to be measured accurately. For that reason, there are essentially no technical or regulatory limits on the smallest amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



              I hope that that thoroughly answers your questions. If not, feel free to leave a comment and I'll try to address any aspects not yet covered.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              As others have already noted, the question has both regulatory and technical aspects. This answer considers the technical aspects primarily, but includes some regulatory background information. Because regulations change and vary by locale, any future readers of this answer should look for the most current local regulatory information rather than relying solely on information here.



              So with that said, let's look at the heart of the question:




              My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




              There are a couple of ways to interpret this, so to give a complete answer, I'll rephrase individual aspects of the question and answer each one separately.



              Can every amount of energy be fed into the grid?



              The answer to this is generally "no" from both a regulatory and technical viewpoint.



              From the regulatory aspect, many Feed-In Tariff (FIT) schemes impose a cap on the size of a photovoltaic (PV) system that is eligible. For instance, the Los Angeles Department of Power & Water has a commercial PV size range of 30 kW to 3 MW for their current FIT



              From a technical aspect, distribution systems, which is generally the term used to describe the part of the electric grid from the substation to individual homes or businesses, have physical limits as to the current they can carry. A typical distribution transformer, like the one that feeds my house, also has an associated fuse and the fuse represents a hard limit on power. The one on "my" transformer is rated 10A at 14.4kV, which is the distribution voltage in this area.



              Should the electric energy be stored in integral kWh amounts?



              Batteries are a very useful adjunct to PV systems. Obviously, PV systems only generate during the day when the sun is shining, so having a way to store some of that energy for later use is extremely useful to be able to continue to use energy when the sun is not shining. However, from a regulatory viewpoint, I don't know of any currently available FIT that requires the use of a storage systems. I think what might actually be meant by this question is the next interpretation.



              What is the smallest increment that can be measured by a net meter?



              The use of a net meter is often used in association with a FIT. In the old days, energy only went one way -- from a utility's generation plant toward the end users of that energy. Meters designed for that scenario measure kWh in one direction only. With a two-way flow of power in the scenario in which sometimes the energy goes from the grid into your house and sometimes energy goes to the grid from your own local generation, what is often used is a net meter. As suggested in the name it registers the net energy (supplied minus delivered) which can then be used to calculate the bill (or payment!) based on the current tariff, which might be a FIT. Meters for that purpose are generally very accurate -- a typical residential meter in North America is an ANSI standard class 0.2 meter which basically means that its measurement is within 0.2% of the true value. These meters also have a starting load requirement from the same standard which is 0.1A for the typical 200A circuit, which means that a current as low as 100mA (at 240V, that's 24W or 0.024kW) is enough to be measured accurately. For that reason, there are essentially no technical or regulatory limits on the smallest amount of energy that can be fed back into the grid.



              I hope that that thoroughly answers your questions. If not, feel free to leave a comment and I'll try to address any aspects not yet covered.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 5 hours ago

























              answered 5 hours ago









              EdwardEdward

              2,36111 silver badges21 bronze badges




              2,36111 silver badges21 bronze badges























                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  The question has regulatory and technical aspects.

                  Regulatory and company practice aspects are outside this forums scope and my knowledge.



                  Technically: If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits.



                  I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not.



                  If there was a lower limit then storing the energy and sending it in bursts would overcome this BUT there would be no economic sense in doing this.

                  If say 10 Watts did not register then in a month you'd accumulate

                  10W x 24 h/d x 30d = 7.2 units. Depending on what you are paid for energy that will probably be worth a dollar or two.

                  If you already had a battery then you would not need to make decisions of this sort, and you would never justify addition of a battery system for such small amounts.



                  If you only fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care.

                  However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be able to be accounted for.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$

















                    1












                    $begingroup$

                    The question has regulatory and technical aspects.

                    Regulatory and company practice aspects are outside this forums scope and my knowledge.



                    Technically: If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits.



                    I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not.



                    If there was a lower limit then storing the energy and sending it in bursts would overcome this BUT there would be no economic sense in doing this.

                    If say 10 Watts did not register then in a month you'd accumulate

                    10W x 24 h/d x 30d = 7.2 units. Depending on what you are paid for energy that will probably be worth a dollar or two.

                    If you already had a battery then you would not need to make decisions of this sort, and you would never justify addition of a battery system for such small amounts.



                    If you only fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care.

                    However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be able to be accounted for.






                    share|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$















                      1












                      1








                      1





                      $begingroup$

                      The question has regulatory and technical aspects.

                      Regulatory and company practice aspects are outside this forums scope and my knowledge.



                      Technically: If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits.



                      I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not.



                      If there was a lower limit then storing the energy and sending it in bursts would overcome this BUT there would be no economic sense in doing this.

                      If say 10 Watts did not register then in a month you'd accumulate

                      10W x 24 h/d x 30d = 7.2 units. Depending on what you are paid for energy that will probably be worth a dollar or two.

                      If you already had a battery then you would not need to make decisions of this sort, and you would never justify addition of a battery system for such small amounts.



                      If you only fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care.

                      However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be able to be accounted for.






                      share|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



                      The question has regulatory and technical aspects.

                      Regulatory and company practice aspects are outside this forums scope and my knowledge.



                      Technically: If a meter is set to allow feed in then it will usually sum energy supplied to the grid within certain accuracy and resolution limits.



                      I'd expect that 100 Watts would register and 10 Watts may not.



                      If there was a lower limit then storing the energy and sending it in bursts would overcome this BUT there would be no economic sense in doing this.

                      If say 10 Watts did not register then in a month you'd accumulate

                      10W x 24 h/d x 30d = 7.2 units. Depending on what you are paid for energy that will probably be worth a dollar or two.

                      If you already had a battery then you would not need to make decisions of this sort, and you would never justify addition of a battery system for such small amounts.



                      If you only fed in 100 Wh during a billing period then you'd be lucky to see that registered - and would be unlikely to care.

                      However, 100 Wh/day =~ 3 kWh/month should be able to be accounted for.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 7 hours ago

























                      answered 7 hours ago









                      Russell McMahonRussell McMahon

                      120k9 gold badges168 silver badges304 bronze badges




                      120k9 gold badges168 silver badges304 bronze badges





















                          0












                          $begingroup$


                          My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff




                          Yes. Few systems have storage.




                          ... or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kW or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




                          What you are trying to say is, "should the energy (kWh) be accumulated and then fed back in at a pre-determined power level (kW) in a kind of 'burst mode'.



                          The second scenario is unlikely at the moment as the grid generally likes steady state. What is likely to happen in future is that the "smart grid" would like what you are offering so that they could have you build up reserve energy and call it in on demand. One significant source of short term storage would be electric vehicle batteries when left on charge. On receipt of a signal from the grid they could be switched into supply mode to help ride through a short-term peak demand.






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$

















                            0












                            $begingroup$


                            My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff




                            Yes. Few systems have storage.




                            ... or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kW or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




                            What you are trying to say is, "should the energy (kWh) be accumulated and then fed back in at a pre-determined power level (kW) in a kind of 'burst mode'.



                            The second scenario is unlikely at the moment as the grid generally likes steady state. What is likely to happen in future is that the "smart grid" would like what you are offering so that they could have you build up reserve energy and call it in on demand. One significant source of short term storage would be electric vehicle batteries when left on charge. On receipt of a signal from the grid they could be switched into supply mode to help ride through a short-term peak demand.






                            share|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$















                              0












                              0








                              0





                              $begingroup$


                              My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff




                              Yes. Few systems have storage.




                              ... or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kW or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




                              What you are trying to say is, "should the energy (kWh) be accumulated and then fed back in at a pre-determined power level (kW) in a kind of 'burst mode'.



                              The second scenario is unlikely at the moment as the grid generally likes steady state. What is likely to happen in future is that the "smart grid" would like what you are offering so that they could have you build up reserve energy and call it in on demand. One significant source of short term storage would be electric vehicle batteries when left on charge. On receipt of a signal from the grid they could be switched into supply mode to help ride through a short-term peak demand.






                              share|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$




                              My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff




                              Yes. Few systems have storage.




                              ... or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kW or is any quantity possible to be fed back?




                              What you are trying to say is, "should the energy (kWh) be accumulated and then fed back in at a pre-determined power level (kW) in a kind of 'burst mode'.



                              The second scenario is unlikely at the moment as the grid generally likes steady state. What is likely to happen in future is that the "smart grid" would like what you are offering so that they could have you build up reserve energy and call it in on demand. One significant source of short term storage would be electric vehicle batteries when left on charge. On receipt of a signal from the grid they could be switched into supply mode to help ride through a short-term peak demand.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 7 hours ago









                              TransistorTransistor

                              94.4k7 gold badges95 silver badges206 bronze badges




                              94.4k7 gold badges95 silver badges206 bronze badges





















                                  0












                                  $begingroup$


                                  My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



                                  I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?




                                  A kWh is not a lot. Ask yourself the reverse question: is there a minimum amount I would be billed for? No, even if your load was a single phone charger it would very slowly tick upwards.



                                  I have a 4kW system, and rather than a single net meter I have two (essentially identical) meters, one in one out. Both are capable of measuring individual watt-hours; the meter flashes a light for every watt-hour that goes past. So on a bright day the export meter flashes slightly faster than once a second. On dim days many seconds can go by between movements, but they are still counted.



                                  Your meter will almost certainly show two decimal places, corresponding to 10Wh. However, at billing/feed-in-tariff time, you only send in the whole kWh and are paid for those. Fractional kWh you can carry over.



                                  (The UK system at the time I subscribed pays for every kWh that comes off the panels, regardless of whether I use it or export it. Your local currently available scheme may vary.)



                                  If you want the technical details, have a look at an example meter and the IEC standard for accuracy.






                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$

















                                    0












                                    $begingroup$


                                    My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



                                    I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?




                                    A kWh is not a lot. Ask yourself the reverse question: is there a minimum amount I would be billed for? No, even if your load was a single phone charger it would very slowly tick upwards.



                                    I have a 4kW system, and rather than a single net meter I have two (essentially identical) meters, one in one out. Both are capable of measuring individual watt-hours; the meter flashes a light for every watt-hour that goes past. So on a bright day the export meter flashes slightly faster than once a second. On dim days many seconds can go by between movements, but they are still counted.



                                    Your meter will almost certainly show two decimal places, corresponding to 10Wh. However, at billing/feed-in-tariff time, you only send in the whole kWh and are paid for those. Fractional kWh you can carry over.



                                    (The UK system at the time I subscribed pays for every kWh that comes off the panels, regardless of whether I use it or export it. Your local currently available scheme may vary.)



                                    If you want the technical details, have a look at an example meter and the IEC standard for accuracy.






                                    share|improve this answer









                                    $endgroup$















                                      0












                                      0








                                      0





                                      $begingroup$


                                      My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



                                      I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?




                                      A kWh is not a lot. Ask yourself the reverse question: is there a minimum amount I would be billed for? No, even if your load was a single phone charger it would very slowly tick upwards.



                                      I have a 4kW system, and rather than a single net meter I have two (essentially identical) meters, one in one out. Both are capable of measuring individual watt-hours; the meter flashes a light for every watt-hour that goes past. So on a bright day the export meter flashes slightly faster than once a second. On dim days many seconds can go by between movements, but they are still counted.



                                      Your meter will almost certainly show two decimal places, corresponding to 10Wh. However, at billing/feed-in-tariff time, you only send in the whole kWh and are paid for those. Fractional kWh you can carry over.



                                      (The UK system at the time I subscribed pays for every kWh that comes off the panels, regardless of whether I use it or export it. Your local currently available scheme may vary.)



                                      If you want the technical details, have a look at an example meter and the IEC standard for accuracy.






                                      share|improve this answer









                                      $endgroup$




                                      My question is, can every amount of energy be fed into the grid for a remuneration according to the Feed-in-Tariff or should the electricity be first accumulated (using an energy storage system) to, lets say a kWh, or is any quantity possible to be fed back?



                                      I have looked at the Feed-in-Tariff method and normally the payment is for a kWh, if the price per kWh is 8 cents, would I be paid 0.8 cents for 100 Wh or would I first have to produce a minimum of 1 kWh?




                                      A kWh is not a lot. Ask yourself the reverse question: is there a minimum amount I would be billed for? No, even if your load was a single phone charger it would very slowly tick upwards.



                                      I have a 4kW system, and rather than a single net meter I have two (essentially identical) meters, one in one out. Both are capable of measuring individual watt-hours; the meter flashes a light for every watt-hour that goes past. So on a bright day the export meter flashes slightly faster than once a second. On dim days many seconds can go by between movements, but they are still counted.



                                      Your meter will almost certainly show two decimal places, corresponding to 10Wh. However, at billing/feed-in-tariff time, you only send in the whole kWh and are paid for those. Fractional kWh you can carry over.



                                      (The UK system at the time I subscribed pays for every kWh that comes off the panels, regardless of whether I use it or export it. Your local currently available scheme may vary.)



                                      If you want the technical details, have a look at an example meter and the IEC standard for accuracy.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 5 hours ago









                                      pjc50pjc50

                                      35.4k3 gold badges46 silver badges91 bronze badges




                                      35.4k3 gold badges46 silver badges91 bronze badges



























                                          draft saved

                                          draft discarded
















































                                          Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!


                                          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                          But avoid


                                          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                          draft saved


                                          draft discarded














                                          StackExchange.ready(
                                          function ()
                                          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f446770%2fis-there-a-minimum-amount-of-electricity-that-can-be-fed-back-into-the-grid%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                          );

                                          Post as a guest















                                          Required, but never shown





















































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown

































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Popular posts from this blog

                                          Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

                                          Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

                                          François Viète Contents Biography Work and thought Bibliography See also Notes Further reading External links Navigation menup. 21Google Bookspp. 75–77Google BooksDe thou (from University of Saint Andrews)ArchivedGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle booksGoogle Bookscc-parthenay.frL'histoire universelle (fr)Universal History (en)ArchivedAdsabs.harvard.eduPagesperso-orange.frArchive.orgChikara Sasaki. Descartes' mathematical thought p.259Google BooksGoogle BooksGoogle Bookspp. 152 and onwardGoogle BooksGoogle BooksScribd.comGoogle Books1257-7979Google BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGallica.bnf.frGoogle BooksGoogle Books"François Viète"Francois Viète: Father of Modern Algebraic NotationThe Lawyer and the GamblerAbout TarporleySite de Jean-Paul GuichardL'algèbre nouvelle"About the Harmonicon"cb120511976(data)1188044800000 0001 0913 5903n82164680ola2013766880073431702w6vt1sb70287374827140948071409480