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Can the Four Elements monk's Shape the Flowing River elemental discipline create stairs by expending a single ki point?

Can a Monk use a Full Discipline move without the attack?Can the monk's Stunning Strike feature be used with Martial Arts?Can a 4 Elements Monk cast spells in Wild Shape?Can Planar Binding an earth elemental then using Meld With Stone be used to create mecha?Does monk's Elemental Attunement require ki point to activate?Are Way of the Four Elements monks able to generate the specific element for the sensory effect of Elemental Attunement?What game elements can raise the caster level of a fixed-caster-level supernatural ability?Can a monk's single staff be considered dual wielded, as per the Dual Wielder feat?If a single attack does multiple types of damage, which type does the Absorb Elements spell give resistance to?Is there a limit to the ki you can spend as a Way of the Four Elements monk's Fist of Unbroken Air or Water Whip disciplines to do extra damage?

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I have a Way of the Four Elements monk PC who likes to use the Shape the Flowing River elemental discipline to make all manner of shapes out of ice by expending a single ki point, such as creating a hemisphere with portcullises to protect the party, or stairs to reach inaccessible locations.

In the PHB (p. 81), Shape the Flowing River says "any manner you chose", but manner is singular and the list of options are given as "or" statements.

Wouldn't making stairs require 1 ki point to be expended to form a pillar, and then additional ki points to be spent for each lowered step? Can StFR even move ice sideways?

dnd-5e class-feature monk

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edited 7 hours ago

V2Blast♦

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5

1

$begingroup$

I have a Way of the Four Elements monk PC who likes to use the Shape the Flowing River elemental discipline to make all manner of shapes out of ice by expending a single ki point, such as creating a hemisphere with portcullises to protect the party, or stairs to reach inaccessible locations.

In the PHB (p. 81), Shape the Flowing River says "any manner you chose", but manner is singular and the list of options are given as "or" statements.

Wouldn't making stairs require 1 ki point to be expended to form a pillar, and then additional ki points to be spent for each lowered step? Can StFR even move ice sideways?

dnd-5e class-feature monk

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

V2Blast♦

31.8k55 gold badges116116 silver badges194194 bronze badges

asked 9 hours ago

kentkent

3422 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

I have a Way of the Four Elements monk PC who likes to use the Shape the Flowing River elemental discipline to make all manner of shapes out of ice by expending a single ki point, such as creating a hemisphere with portcullises to protect the party, or stairs to reach inaccessible locations.

In the PHB (p. 81), Shape the Flowing River says "any manner you chose", but manner is singular and the list of options are given as "or" statements.

Wouldn't making stairs require 1 ki point to be expended to form a pillar, and then additional ki points to be spent for each lowered step? Can StFR even move ice sideways?

dnd-5e class-feature monk

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

V2Blast♦

31.8k55 gold badges116116 silver badges194194 bronze badges

asked 9 hours ago

kentkent

3422 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

V2Blast♦

31.8k55 gold badges116116 silver badges194194 bronze badges

asked 9 hours ago

kentkent

3422 bronze badges

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

V2Blast♦

31.8k55 gold badges116116 silver badges194194 bronze badges

asked 9 hours ago

kentkent

3422 bronze badges

edited 7 hours ago

V2Blast♦

31.8k55 gold badges116116 silver badges194194 bronze badges

edited 7 hours ago

V2Blast♦

31.8k55 gold badges116116 silver badges194194 bronze badges

asked 9 hours ago

kentkent

3422 bronze badges

asked 9 hours ago

kentkent

3422 bronze badges

2 Answers
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It's ambiguous, but I think the list that follows is meant to be examples, not a list of options.

I have both played this class and run a game where someone had it, and it's my strong opinion that this should be interpreted very liberally. This subclass is very weak compared to other monk subclasses, and really struggles with resource contention (where both basic monk options and the spell-like options consume ki — compare eldritch knight or arcane trickster or even paladin where you get a separate casting progression). So, I'm very inclined to rule in favor of actually doing interesting useful cool stuff when those resources are spent.

It says "in any manner you choose", so if you choose you should be free to make stairs, a hemisphere, or a swan, or whatever else you want.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

mattdmmattdm

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While the examples are of simplistic objects/constructions, they are provided to explain/clarify the size limits rather than the allowed complexity.

"you can reshape ice in the area in any manner you choose" implies to me that the reshaping can be as complex as you want. "Stairs to reach inaccessible locations" seems like an intended use of the power.

Yes, you can move the ice sideways, or any other direction required for your structure.

By clarifying that you cannot shape the ice to "trap or injure a creature", it implies that you can make something more complex than a pillar.

It would have to be a DM decision as to just how complex a construction the Monk could shape, and if they have, or need, the knowledge of those shapes. e.g. a clockwork mechanism, or complex auto-loading multi-shot ice-crossbow.

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answered 6 hours ago

Black SpikeBlack Spike

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5

$begingroup$

It's ambiguous, but I think the list that follows is meant to be examples, not a list of options.

I have both played this class and run a game where someone had it, and it's my strong opinion that this should be interpreted very liberally. This subclass is very weak compared to other monk subclasses, and really struggles with resource contention (where both basic monk options and the spell-like options consume ki — compare eldritch knight or arcane trickster or even paladin where you get a separate casting progression). So, I'm very inclined to rule in favor of actually doing interesting useful cool stuff when those resources are spent.

It says "in any manner you choose", so if you choose you should be free to make stairs, a hemisphere, or a swan, or whatever else you want.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

mattdmmattdm

19k88 gold badges8888 silver badges141141 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

5

$begingroup$

It's ambiguous, but I think the list that follows is meant to be examples, not a list of options.

I have both played this class and run a game where someone had it, and it's my strong opinion that this should be interpreted very liberally. This subclass is very weak compared to other monk subclasses, and really struggles with resource contention (where both basic monk options and the spell-like options consume ki — compare eldritch knight or arcane trickster or even paladin where you get a separate casting progression). So, I'm very inclined to rule in favor of actually doing interesting useful cool stuff when those resources are spent.

It says "in any manner you choose", so if you choose you should be free to make stairs, a hemisphere, or a swan, or whatever else you want.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

mattdmmattdm

19k88 gold badges8888 silver badges141141 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

It's ambiguous, but I think the list that follows is meant to be examples, not a list of options.

I have both played this class and run a game where someone had it, and it's my strong opinion that this should be interpreted very liberally. This subclass is very weak compared to other monk subclasses, and really struggles with resource contention (where both basic monk options and the spell-like options consume ki — compare eldritch knight or arcane trickster or even paladin where you get a separate casting progression). So, I'm very inclined to rule in favor of actually doing interesting useful cool stuff when those resources are spent.

It says "in any manner you choose", so if you choose you should be free to make stairs, a hemisphere, or a swan, or whatever else you want.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

mattdmmattdm

19k88 gold badges8888 silver badges141141 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

mattdmmattdm

19k88 gold badges8888 silver badges141141 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

mattdmmattdm

19k88 gold badges8888 silver badges141141 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

mattdmmattdm

19k88 gold badges8888 silver badges141141 bronze badges

3

$begingroup$

While the examples are of simplistic objects/constructions, they are provided to explain/clarify the size limits rather than the allowed complexity.

"you can reshape ice in the area in any manner you choose" implies to me that the reshaping can be as complex as you want. "Stairs to reach inaccessible locations" seems like an intended use of the power.

Yes, you can move the ice sideways, or any other direction required for your structure.

By clarifying that you cannot shape the ice to "trap or injure a creature", it implies that you can make something more complex than a pillar.

It would have to be a DM decision as to just how complex a construction the Monk could shape, and if they have, or need, the knowledge of those shapes. e.g. a clockwork mechanism, or complex auto-loading multi-shot ice-crossbow.

share|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

Black SpikeBlack Spike

62233 silver badges1111 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

3

$begingroup$

While the examples are of simplistic objects/constructions, they are provided to explain/clarify the size limits rather than the allowed complexity.

"you can reshape ice in the area in any manner you choose" implies to me that the reshaping can be as complex as you want. "Stairs to reach inaccessible locations" seems like an intended use of the power.

Yes, you can move the ice sideways, or any other direction required for your structure.

By clarifying that you cannot shape the ice to "trap or injure a creature", it implies that you can make something more complex than a pillar.

It would have to be a DM decision as to just how complex a construction the Monk could shape, and if they have, or need, the knowledge of those shapes. e.g. a clockwork mechanism, or complex auto-loading multi-shot ice-crossbow.

share|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

Black SpikeBlack Spike

62233 silver badges1111 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

While the examples are of simplistic objects/constructions, they are provided to explain/clarify the size limits rather than the allowed complexity.

"you can reshape ice in the area in any manner you choose" implies to me that the reshaping can be as complex as you want. "Stairs to reach inaccessible locations" seems like an intended use of the power.

Yes, you can move the ice sideways, or any other direction required for your structure.

By clarifying that you cannot shape the ice to "trap or injure a creature", it implies that you can make something more complex than a pillar.

It would have to be a DM decision as to just how complex a construction the Monk could shape, and if they have, or need, the knowledge of those shapes. e.g. a clockwork mechanism, or complex auto-loading multi-shot ice-crossbow.

share|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

Black SpikeBlack Spike

62233 silver badges1111 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

Black SpikeBlack Spike

62233 silver badges1111 bronze badges

answered 6 hours ago

Black SpikeBlack Spike

62233 silver badges1111 bronze badges

answered 6 hours ago

Black SpikeBlack Spike

62233 silver badges1111 bronze badges