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How to navigate stalled discussion on development environment location?
How can I encourage a 'software development' culture when working in a more traditional companyHow can I convince my boss to invest into the developer environment?How to communicate with checkbox-tickers about CMS choicesSoftware created automated someone out of a job — the software has a kill switch. How will this play out?A shareholder wrote bad software, I started from scratch. How to bring the news?Contractor faced with scope screep - Should I fulfill none, some or all client requests?How do I approach my new boss in my new job about major changes in my working environment?How can I convince my company to improve our software development process?How to effectively change a boss's mindset on technology choices when I will be the one building a project?How can I tell my manager that I'm unhappy with the project that I've been assigned?
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TL;DR: Boss insists on an expensive cloud-hosted VM for a development environment for a cost-conscious client. He has misunderstandings and reservations about using physical devices for development work due to client ownership & risk concerns. We're spending weeks on what I see as a non-issue, and not making progress on this application. Boss is not receptive of explanations or arguments one way or another. It's a 2 person team and There is more humming & hawing and misc bureaucracy than I even had when working at a pharmaceutical lab... At this point I just want to get to work for this client, not sure how to move this forward.
I'm a remote developer that works for a small company (<10 people) that does miscellaneous contracted development for other businesses. I work solo on most of our projects, and my boss (The company owner, lets call him Frank), does a little development here and there on the side. But for the most part he runs the business, and as a result has fallen a bit behind on how development has changed over the decades (e.g., source control being a "new thing" that's not utilized by anyone else but me).
We are starting on a new client with a sizable greenfield project where I will be the solo developer -- we expect this project to last 2-3 years. They are very cost-conscious since they are a small 10 person team, and their application will be hosted on a cloud provider like AWS.
We have finally come to the point where I can get started on their product; however, Frank insists we need to sort out a remote development environment. And we have been going back and forth on this for weeks now, without making progress. The problem is that a capable enough VM is going to cost the client ~$250/m in hosting costs ($3000/y, or $9000 over the next 3 years) which is exorbitant given how cost-conscious they are. I suggested just developing on a local device, which has been the standard at every other company I've worked at. In my experience dev environments are mobile, and can be taken with you on a laptop, fired up on a VM, or used on my workstation. They're disposable, and are a few installs and a git pull away from being setup again.
Frank is very concerned about using a physical, on-site, device for development. He seems to believe that the code and the application lives on this device, and if it's lost the client loses their product. Frank is concerned that the client needs full ownership of everything, all the time, and that using a device not in their possession is unprofessional. I have explain in many ways that this is not the case, and that a development environment in our stack is entirely disposable, that the code is held in a remote repository and backups maintained elsewhere.
Frank does not seem to understand that the development environment isn't particularly special. I have explained in many ways how it functions, but his opinions and assumptions do not change. We are wasting weeks of time spinning our wheels over something as mundane as where the development environment should be. For me, it doesn't matter -- it's mobile and I can set it up on any device whenever I need to. This is to ensure I can get work done even if I'm traveling, or lose internet access. A remote VM is fine, it's just less time efficient due to latency and other miscellaneous issues that are part of developing remotely, and it will cost the client more money.
I'm not sure what direction I should go, or what to do at this point. We have enough self-inflicted red tape to make a Fortune 500 company proud, and it's only the 2 of us. It's extremely frustrating.
How would you navigate this?
Clarification: There are 7 people employed by my company, but for this project it's just me as the developer and my boss as the boss.
software-industry management work-environment conflict projects
add a comment |
TL;DR: Boss insists on an expensive cloud-hosted VM for a development environment for a cost-conscious client. He has misunderstandings and reservations about using physical devices for development work due to client ownership & risk concerns. We're spending weeks on what I see as a non-issue, and not making progress on this application. Boss is not receptive of explanations or arguments one way or another. It's a 2 person team and There is more humming & hawing and misc bureaucracy than I even had when working at a pharmaceutical lab... At this point I just want to get to work for this client, not sure how to move this forward.
I'm a remote developer that works for a small company (<10 people) that does miscellaneous contracted development for other businesses. I work solo on most of our projects, and my boss (The company owner, lets call him Frank), does a little development here and there on the side. But for the most part he runs the business, and as a result has fallen a bit behind on how development has changed over the decades (e.g., source control being a "new thing" that's not utilized by anyone else but me).
We are starting on a new client with a sizable greenfield project where I will be the solo developer -- we expect this project to last 2-3 years. They are very cost-conscious since they are a small 10 person team, and their application will be hosted on a cloud provider like AWS.
We have finally come to the point where I can get started on their product; however, Frank insists we need to sort out a remote development environment. And we have been going back and forth on this for weeks now, without making progress. The problem is that a capable enough VM is going to cost the client ~$250/m in hosting costs ($3000/y, or $9000 over the next 3 years) which is exorbitant given how cost-conscious they are. I suggested just developing on a local device, which has been the standard at every other company I've worked at. In my experience dev environments are mobile, and can be taken with you on a laptop, fired up on a VM, or used on my workstation. They're disposable, and are a few installs and a git pull away from being setup again.
Frank is very concerned about using a physical, on-site, device for development. He seems to believe that the code and the application lives on this device, and if it's lost the client loses their product. Frank is concerned that the client needs full ownership of everything, all the time, and that using a device not in their possession is unprofessional. I have explain in many ways that this is not the case, and that a development environment in our stack is entirely disposable, that the code is held in a remote repository and backups maintained elsewhere.
Frank does not seem to understand that the development environment isn't particularly special. I have explained in many ways how it functions, but his opinions and assumptions do not change. We are wasting weeks of time spinning our wheels over something as mundane as where the development environment should be. For me, it doesn't matter -- it's mobile and I can set it up on any device whenever I need to. This is to ensure I can get work done even if I'm traveling, or lose internet access. A remote VM is fine, it's just less time efficient due to latency and other miscellaneous issues that are part of developing remotely, and it will cost the client more money.
I'm not sure what direction I should go, or what to do at this point. We have enough self-inflicted red tape to make a Fortune 500 company proud, and it's only the 2 of us. It's extremely frustrating.
How would you navigate this?
Clarification: There are 7 people employed by my company, but for this project it's just me as the developer and my boss as the boss.
software-industry management work-environment conflict projects
2
"How would you navigate this?" Let the boss do what he wants, if he loses the client it is on him.
– sf02
1 hour ago
So it sounds like you've done other software projects for this small company. Was the dev done on local devices or remote VMs? If local, why is the boss concerned in this one particular case?
– DaveG
1 hour ago
@sf02 My concern is that this clients contract pays a good portion of my salary. Even then, this is still frustrating when we can just get to work...
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
@Dave I took over clients from the previous dev who left, those where performed on remote boxes hosted internally by the companies who we contracted with. Which are fundamentally different setups than we would have here.
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
add a comment |
TL;DR: Boss insists on an expensive cloud-hosted VM for a development environment for a cost-conscious client. He has misunderstandings and reservations about using physical devices for development work due to client ownership & risk concerns. We're spending weeks on what I see as a non-issue, and not making progress on this application. Boss is not receptive of explanations or arguments one way or another. It's a 2 person team and There is more humming & hawing and misc bureaucracy than I even had when working at a pharmaceutical lab... At this point I just want to get to work for this client, not sure how to move this forward.
I'm a remote developer that works for a small company (<10 people) that does miscellaneous contracted development for other businesses. I work solo on most of our projects, and my boss (The company owner, lets call him Frank), does a little development here and there on the side. But for the most part he runs the business, and as a result has fallen a bit behind on how development has changed over the decades (e.g., source control being a "new thing" that's not utilized by anyone else but me).
We are starting on a new client with a sizable greenfield project where I will be the solo developer -- we expect this project to last 2-3 years. They are very cost-conscious since they are a small 10 person team, and their application will be hosted on a cloud provider like AWS.
We have finally come to the point where I can get started on their product; however, Frank insists we need to sort out a remote development environment. And we have been going back and forth on this for weeks now, without making progress. The problem is that a capable enough VM is going to cost the client ~$250/m in hosting costs ($3000/y, or $9000 over the next 3 years) which is exorbitant given how cost-conscious they are. I suggested just developing on a local device, which has been the standard at every other company I've worked at. In my experience dev environments are mobile, and can be taken with you on a laptop, fired up on a VM, or used on my workstation. They're disposable, and are a few installs and a git pull away from being setup again.
Frank is very concerned about using a physical, on-site, device for development. He seems to believe that the code and the application lives on this device, and if it's lost the client loses their product. Frank is concerned that the client needs full ownership of everything, all the time, and that using a device not in their possession is unprofessional. I have explain in many ways that this is not the case, and that a development environment in our stack is entirely disposable, that the code is held in a remote repository and backups maintained elsewhere.
Frank does not seem to understand that the development environment isn't particularly special. I have explained in many ways how it functions, but his opinions and assumptions do not change. We are wasting weeks of time spinning our wheels over something as mundane as where the development environment should be. For me, it doesn't matter -- it's mobile and I can set it up on any device whenever I need to. This is to ensure I can get work done even if I'm traveling, or lose internet access. A remote VM is fine, it's just less time efficient due to latency and other miscellaneous issues that are part of developing remotely, and it will cost the client more money.
I'm not sure what direction I should go, or what to do at this point. We have enough self-inflicted red tape to make a Fortune 500 company proud, and it's only the 2 of us. It's extremely frustrating.
How would you navigate this?
Clarification: There are 7 people employed by my company, but for this project it's just me as the developer and my boss as the boss.
software-industry management work-environment conflict projects
TL;DR: Boss insists on an expensive cloud-hosted VM for a development environment for a cost-conscious client. He has misunderstandings and reservations about using physical devices for development work due to client ownership & risk concerns. We're spending weeks on what I see as a non-issue, and not making progress on this application. Boss is not receptive of explanations or arguments one way or another. It's a 2 person team and There is more humming & hawing and misc bureaucracy than I even had when working at a pharmaceutical lab... At this point I just want to get to work for this client, not sure how to move this forward.
I'm a remote developer that works for a small company (<10 people) that does miscellaneous contracted development for other businesses. I work solo on most of our projects, and my boss (The company owner, lets call him Frank), does a little development here and there on the side. But for the most part he runs the business, and as a result has fallen a bit behind on how development has changed over the decades (e.g., source control being a "new thing" that's not utilized by anyone else but me).
We are starting on a new client with a sizable greenfield project where I will be the solo developer -- we expect this project to last 2-3 years. They are very cost-conscious since they are a small 10 person team, and their application will be hosted on a cloud provider like AWS.
We have finally come to the point where I can get started on their product; however, Frank insists we need to sort out a remote development environment. And we have been going back and forth on this for weeks now, without making progress. The problem is that a capable enough VM is going to cost the client ~$250/m in hosting costs ($3000/y, or $9000 over the next 3 years) which is exorbitant given how cost-conscious they are. I suggested just developing on a local device, which has been the standard at every other company I've worked at. In my experience dev environments are mobile, and can be taken with you on a laptop, fired up on a VM, or used on my workstation. They're disposable, and are a few installs and a git pull away from being setup again.
Frank is very concerned about using a physical, on-site, device for development. He seems to believe that the code and the application lives on this device, and if it's lost the client loses their product. Frank is concerned that the client needs full ownership of everything, all the time, and that using a device not in their possession is unprofessional. I have explain in many ways that this is not the case, and that a development environment in our stack is entirely disposable, that the code is held in a remote repository and backups maintained elsewhere.
Frank does not seem to understand that the development environment isn't particularly special. I have explained in many ways how it functions, but his opinions and assumptions do not change. We are wasting weeks of time spinning our wheels over something as mundane as where the development environment should be. For me, it doesn't matter -- it's mobile and I can set it up on any device whenever I need to. This is to ensure I can get work done even if I'm traveling, or lose internet access. A remote VM is fine, it's just less time efficient due to latency and other miscellaneous issues that are part of developing remotely, and it will cost the client more money.
I'm not sure what direction I should go, or what to do at this point. We have enough self-inflicted red tape to make a Fortune 500 company proud, and it's only the 2 of us. It's extremely frustrating.
How would you navigate this?
Clarification: There are 7 people employed by my company, but for this project it's just me as the developer and my boss as the boss.
software-industry management work-environment conflict projects
software-industry management work-environment conflict projects
edited 7 mins ago
Douglas Gaskell
asked 1 hour ago
Douglas GaskellDouglas Gaskell
1,1572820
1,1572820
2
"How would you navigate this?" Let the boss do what he wants, if he loses the client it is on him.
– sf02
1 hour ago
So it sounds like you've done other software projects for this small company. Was the dev done on local devices or remote VMs? If local, why is the boss concerned in this one particular case?
– DaveG
1 hour ago
@sf02 My concern is that this clients contract pays a good portion of my salary. Even then, this is still frustrating when we can just get to work...
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
@Dave I took over clients from the previous dev who left, those where performed on remote boxes hosted internally by the companies who we contracted with. Which are fundamentally different setups than we would have here.
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
add a comment |
2
"How would you navigate this?" Let the boss do what he wants, if he loses the client it is on him.
– sf02
1 hour ago
So it sounds like you've done other software projects for this small company. Was the dev done on local devices or remote VMs? If local, why is the boss concerned in this one particular case?
– DaveG
1 hour ago
@sf02 My concern is that this clients contract pays a good portion of my salary. Even then, this is still frustrating when we can just get to work...
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
@Dave I took over clients from the previous dev who left, those where performed on remote boxes hosted internally by the companies who we contracted with. Which are fundamentally different setups than we would have here.
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
2
2
"How would you navigate this?" Let the boss do what he wants, if he loses the client it is on him.
– sf02
1 hour ago
"How would you navigate this?" Let the boss do what he wants, if he loses the client it is on him.
– sf02
1 hour ago
So it sounds like you've done other software projects for this small company. Was the dev done on local devices or remote VMs? If local, why is the boss concerned in this one particular case?
– DaveG
1 hour ago
So it sounds like you've done other software projects for this small company. Was the dev done on local devices or remote VMs? If local, why is the boss concerned in this one particular case?
– DaveG
1 hour ago
@sf02 My concern is that this clients contract pays a good portion of my salary. Even then, this is still frustrating when we can just get to work...
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
@sf02 My concern is that this clients contract pays a good portion of my salary. Even then, this is still frustrating when we can just get to work...
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
@Dave I took over clients from the previous dev who left, those where performed on remote boxes hosted internally by the companies who we contracted with. Which are fundamentally different setups than we would have here.
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
@Dave I took over clients from the previous dev who left, those where performed on remote boxes hosted internally by the companies who we contracted with. Which are fundamentally different setups than we would have here.
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
The boss is the boss. He takes responsibility for his decisions, good or bad. If the client says to him "why are you spewing my money on this stupid thing that we don't need" and he loses the client, that's on him, not you (and if he tries to make it on you, run away VERY FAST). Other than that, he's the boss so do what he wants. You have done your duty to explain to him why he is doing something wrong and why it's wrong, the rest is above your pay grade, as they say.
That said, if it's just the 2 of you in this "company" and he's so backwards as you say, you may want to start looking for another job. No self-respecting company using technology would hire such a consulting firm to do their projects. You may find yourself without a job sooner rather than later, through no fault of your own.
add a comment |
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The boss is the boss. He takes responsibility for his decisions, good or bad. If the client says to him "why are you spewing my money on this stupid thing that we don't need" and he loses the client, that's on him, not you (and if he tries to make it on you, run away VERY FAST). Other than that, he's the boss so do what he wants. You have done your duty to explain to him why he is doing something wrong and why it's wrong, the rest is above your pay grade, as they say.
That said, if it's just the 2 of you in this "company" and he's so backwards as you say, you may want to start looking for another job. No self-respecting company using technology would hire such a consulting firm to do their projects. You may find yourself without a job sooner rather than later, through no fault of your own.
add a comment |
The boss is the boss. He takes responsibility for his decisions, good or bad. If the client says to him "why are you spewing my money on this stupid thing that we don't need" and he loses the client, that's on him, not you (and if he tries to make it on you, run away VERY FAST). Other than that, he's the boss so do what he wants. You have done your duty to explain to him why he is doing something wrong and why it's wrong, the rest is above your pay grade, as they say.
That said, if it's just the 2 of you in this "company" and he's so backwards as you say, you may want to start looking for another job. No self-respecting company using technology would hire such a consulting firm to do their projects. You may find yourself without a job sooner rather than later, through no fault of your own.
add a comment |
The boss is the boss. He takes responsibility for his decisions, good or bad. If the client says to him "why are you spewing my money on this stupid thing that we don't need" and he loses the client, that's on him, not you (and if he tries to make it on you, run away VERY FAST). Other than that, he's the boss so do what he wants. You have done your duty to explain to him why he is doing something wrong and why it's wrong, the rest is above your pay grade, as they say.
That said, if it's just the 2 of you in this "company" and he's so backwards as you say, you may want to start looking for another job. No self-respecting company using technology would hire such a consulting firm to do their projects. You may find yourself without a job sooner rather than later, through no fault of your own.
The boss is the boss. He takes responsibility for his decisions, good or bad. If the client says to him "why are you spewing my money on this stupid thing that we don't need" and he loses the client, that's on him, not you (and if he tries to make it on you, run away VERY FAST). Other than that, he's the boss so do what he wants. You have done your duty to explain to him why he is doing something wrong and why it's wrong, the rest is above your pay grade, as they say.
That said, if it's just the 2 of you in this "company" and he's so backwards as you say, you may want to start looking for another job. No self-respecting company using technology would hire such a consulting firm to do their projects. You may find yourself without a job sooner rather than later, through no fault of your own.
answered 41 mins ago
Ertai87Ertai87
13.8k41742
13.8k41742
add a comment |
add a comment |
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"How would you navigate this?" Let the boss do what he wants, if he loses the client it is on him.
– sf02
1 hour ago
So it sounds like you've done other software projects for this small company. Was the dev done on local devices or remote VMs? If local, why is the boss concerned in this one particular case?
– DaveG
1 hour ago
@sf02 My concern is that this clients contract pays a good portion of my salary. Even then, this is still frustrating when we can just get to work...
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago
@Dave I took over clients from the previous dev who left, those where performed on remote boxes hosted internally by the companies who we contracted with. Which are fundamentally different setups than we would have here.
– Douglas Gaskell
10 mins ago