Is it true that cut time means “play twice as fast as written”?Tempo, time signature and note lengthsHow to calculate the tempo of a song in numbers and find the Italian terms?Music sheet says “in time, swing feeling”, how many bpm is that?How long does a sound take that corresponds to a note at a certain tempo? What notations / conventions do influence it in detail?
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Is it true that cut time means “play twice as fast as written”?
Tempo, time signature and note lengthsHow to calculate the tempo of a song in numbers and find the Italian terms?Music sheet says “in time, swing feeling”, how many bpm is that?How long does a sound take that corresponds to a note at a certain tempo? What notations / conventions do influence it in detail?
I was just reading an e-book and saw this sentence which really confused me:
"Played twice as fast as written" - This isn't what cut time actually means right, or are there situations where cut time means exactly that?
I thought cut time is basically just 2/2 time signature, but the speed would still depend on the bpm and the note durations...
tempo alla-breve cut-time
add a comment |
I was just reading an e-book and saw this sentence which really confused me:
"Played twice as fast as written" - This isn't what cut time actually means right, or are there situations where cut time means exactly that?
I thought cut time is basically just 2/2 time signature, but the speed would still depend on the bpm and the note durations...
tempo alla-breve cut-time
I see the answers. And I get what they are saying. But... if you change nothing but the time signature to 4/4 and then played it would not sound twice as fast as written in cut time?
– b3ko
yesterday
1
@b3ko - Nah, it would only sound just as fast. You didn't change the tempo, after all.
– Dekkadeci
yesterday
Related question
– guidot
12 hours ago
add a comment |
I was just reading an e-book and saw this sentence which really confused me:
"Played twice as fast as written" - This isn't what cut time actually means right, or are there situations where cut time means exactly that?
I thought cut time is basically just 2/2 time signature, but the speed would still depend on the bpm and the note durations...
tempo alla-breve cut-time
I was just reading an e-book and saw this sentence which really confused me:
"Played twice as fast as written" - This isn't what cut time actually means right, or are there situations where cut time means exactly that?
I thought cut time is basically just 2/2 time signature, but the speed would still depend on the bpm and the note durations...
tempo alla-breve cut-time
tempo alla-breve cut-time
edited 29 mins ago
200_success
1,177916
1,177916
asked yesterday
AndyAndy
64016
64016
I see the answers. And I get what they are saying. But... if you change nothing but the time signature to 4/4 and then played it would not sound twice as fast as written in cut time?
– b3ko
yesterday
1
@b3ko - Nah, it would only sound just as fast. You didn't change the tempo, after all.
– Dekkadeci
yesterday
Related question
– guidot
12 hours ago
add a comment |
I see the answers. And I get what they are saying. But... if you change nothing but the time signature to 4/4 and then played it would not sound twice as fast as written in cut time?
– b3ko
yesterday
1
@b3ko - Nah, it would only sound just as fast. You didn't change the tempo, after all.
– Dekkadeci
yesterday
Related question
– guidot
12 hours ago
I see the answers. And I get what they are saying. But... if you change nothing but the time signature to 4/4 and then played it would not sound twice as fast as written in cut time?
– b3ko
yesterday
I see the answers. And I get what they are saying. But... if you change nothing but the time signature to 4/4 and then played it would not sound twice as fast as written in cut time?
– b3ko
yesterday
1
1
@b3ko - Nah, it would only sound just as fast. You didn't change the tempo, after all.
– Dekkadeci
yesterday
@b3ko - Nah, it would only sound just as fast. You didn't change the tempo, after all.
– Dekkadeci
yesterday
Related question
– guidot
12 hours ago
Related question
– guidot
12 hours ago
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
It would be more accurate to say that cut time "will sound twice as fast as the same notes played in 4/4 at the same tempo". That's essentially what they're trying to get across.
But even that wouldn't really be accurate. Cut time is a duple meter, 4/4 is a quadruple meter. The difference is subtle, but it's still a difference.
That would depend on what you mean by "same tempo." I would argue, fro example, that half-note = 120bpm is not the same tempo as quarter-note = 120 bpm. Instead, half-not = 120bpm means quarter-note = 240bpm.
– trlkly
22 hours ago
2
@trlkly - tempo in my answer means beats per minute, not notes per minute. One beat in cut time = one half note; one beat in 4/4 = one quarter note. If both tempi are defined as (beat) = 120, the quarter notes in cut time will = 240. If the tempo is defined by a term, an Allegro cut time may not be exactly twice as fast as an Allegro 4/4, but it will be close.
– Tom Serb
21 hours ago
add a comment |
That sentence "Played twice as fast as written" indicates that someone must have a misunderstanding. Someone who probably thinks that quarter notes are supposed to be played at a certain speed. That person would need more knowledge and experience with both tempo markings and different kinds of time signatures.
I suppose you could say that in the beginning when you learn your first note values and make your first exercises with the values you do get used to think of quarter notes as indicating some basic speed. You need to crawl before you can walk so to speak. But you certainly better learn to walk before you write a work book on the matter.
add a comment |
It may be that the e-book used the same notation example written in 4/4 earlier, and is indicating to play this version faster?
You are correct that the time signature is not the indicator for tempo. There is an old tradition of using Alla Breve to indicate the piece is a faster tempo, but current practice is to use tempo markings. The cut time choice changes the feel of the music because of the strong beat.
I thought the same, but couldn't find a 4/4 version earlier on. Yes, in 4/4 the 1st and 3rd beat would be the strong ones, but 3 would be less strong than 1. In 2/2 you just have strong - weak - strong - weak right? So if you would double the note values of a 4/4 and make it 2/2, you would get basically a stronger 3rd beat?
– Andy
yesterday
yes, but I've seen it used where the melody seems like it is in 4 but there isn't a second strong beat, so you get a strong - weak-weak-weak sound.
– Alphonso Balvenie
yesterday
add a comment |
No, it's not current... and it doesn't really make much sense. (How fast is it "written"?)
Your assertion that time signatures do not dictate tempo is correct. Certain meters might imply faster tempi (6/4 is probably going to be used for slower pieces, and 12/16 is usually seen in fast pieces like gigues) but those are general usages, not requirements.
add a comment |
In a simple sense, it is correct. "Whatever tempo you have in mind, this is twice as fast as that". This works on the assumption that most people are used to the quarter note being the beat, which happens to be true.
But it basically means that the pulse of the song will be on the half-notes. If someone was standing there waving a baton in front of you, they would be counting the half-notes, and counting two beats per measure (2/2 time as you said).
If it says "moderato" on top of the page it would refer to the speed of the half-notes and if there is a bpm marking it would also refer to the half-notes, although it's common to make this explicit by writing "half-note = tempo" (see top two examples here http://www.janvanbiezen.nl/bachfig01.gif).
This is common in marching band music where writing in 2/4 would look awkward (I guess?).
add a comment |
The e-book was trying to contrast two different meters, 2/2 to 4/4, kind of assuming that the reader might not notice or understand the difference at all. They were trying to provide a simplified first explanation of an unfamiliar meter symbol.
They meant "Crossing the C has the effect that the conductor's hand will start moving in cycles of two beats rather than four beats and you players will have to play twice faster to keep up."
Except that there's no conductor around which makes the entire difference more abstract to formulate and less constrained to execute.
add a comment |
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6 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
It would be more accurate to say that cut time "will sound twice as fast as the same notes played in 4/4 at the same tempo". That's essentially what they're trying to get across.
But even that wouldn't really be accurate. Cut time is a duple meter, 4/4 is a quadruple meter. The difference is subtle, but it's still a difference.
That would depend on what you mean by "same tempo." I would argue, fro example, that half-note = 120bpm is not the same tempo as quarter-note = 120 bpm. Instead, half-not = 120bpm means quarter-note = 240bpm.
– trlkly
22 hours ago
2
@trlkly - tempo in my answer means beats per minute, not notes per minute. One beat in cut time = one half note; one beat in 4/4 = one quarter note. If both tempi are defined as (beat) = 120, the quarter notes in cut time will = 240. If the tempo is defined by a term, an Allegro cut time may not be exactly twice as fast as an Allegro 4/4, but it will be close.
– Tom Serb
21 hours ago
add a comment |
It would be more accurate to say that cut time "will sound twice as fast as the same notes played in 4/4 at the same tempo". That's essentially what they're trying to get across.
But even that wouldn't really be accurate. Cut time is a duple meter, 4/4 is a quadruple meter. The difference is subtle, but it's still a difference.
That would depend on what you mean by "same tempo." I would argue, fro example, that half-note = 120bpm is not the same tempo as quarter-note = 120 bpm. Instead, half-not = 120bpm means quarter-note = 240bpm.
– trlkly
22 hours ago
2
@trlkly - tempo in my answer means beats per minute, not notes per minute. One beat in cut time = one half note; one beat in 4/4 = one quarter note. If both tempi are defined as (beat) = 120, the quarter notes in cut time will = 240. If the tempo is defined by a term, an Allegro cut time may not be exactly twice as fast as an Allegro 4/4, but it will be close.
– Tom Serb
21 hours ago
add a comment |
It would be more accurate to say that cut time "will sound twice as fast as the same notes played in 4/4 at the same tempo". That's essentially what they're trying to get across.
But even that wouldn't really be accurate. Cut time is a duple meter, 4/4 is a quadruple meter. The difference is subtle, but it's still a difference.
It would be more accurate to say that cut time "will sound twice as fast as the same notes played in 4/4 at the same tempo". That's essentially what they're trying to get across.
But even that wouldn't really be accurate. Cut time is a duple meter, 4/4 is a quadruple meter. The difference is subtle, but it's still a difference.
answered yesterday
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,694111
1,694111
That would depend on what you mean by "same tempo." I would argue, fro example, that half-note = 120bpm is not the same tempo as quarter-note = 120 bpm. Instead, half-not = 120bpm means quarter-note = 240bpm.
– trlkly
22 hours ago
2
@trlkly - tempo in my answer means beats per minute, not notes per minute. One beat in cut time = one half note; one beat in 4/4 = one quarter note. If both tempi are defined as (beat) = 120, the quarter notes in cut time will = 240. If the tempo is defined by a term, an Allegro cut time may not be exactly twice as fast as an Allegro 4/4, but it will be close.
– Tom Serb
21 hours ago
add a comment |
That would depend on what you mean by "same tempo." I would argue, fro example, that half-note = 120bpm is not the same tempo as quarter-note = 120 bpm. Instead, half-not = 120bpm means quarter-note = 240bpm.
– trlkly
22 hours ago
2
@trlkly - tempo in my answer means beats per minute, not notes per minute. One beat in cut time = one half note; one beat in 4/4 = one quarter note. If both tempi are defined as (beat) = 120, the quarter notes in cut time will = 240. If the tempo is defined by a term, an Allegro cut time may not be exactly twice as fast as an Allegro 4/4, but it will be close.
– Tom Serb
21 hours ago
That would depend on what you mean by "same tempo." I would argue, fro example, that half-note = 120bpm is not the same tempo as quarter-note = 120 bpm. Instead, half-not = 120bpm means quarter-note = 240bpm.
– trlkly
22 hours ago
That would depend on what you mean by "same tempo." I would argue, fro example, that half-note = 120bpm is not the same tempo as quarter-note = 120 bpm. Instead, half-not = 120bpm means quarter-note = 240bpm.
– trlkly
22 hours ago
2
2
@trlkly - tempo in my answer means beats per minute, not notes per minute. One beat in cut time = one half note; one beat in 4/4 = one quarter note. If both tempi are defined as (beat) = 120, the quarter notes in cut time will = 240. If the tempo is defined by a term, an Allegro cut time may not be exactly twice as fast as an Allegro 4/4, but it will be close.
– Tom Serb
21 hours ago
@trlkly - tempo in my answer means beats per minute, not notes per minute. One beat in cut time = one half note; one beat in 4/4 = one quarter note. If both tempi are defined as (beat) = 120, the quarter notes in cut time will = 240. If the tempo is defined by a term, an Allegro cut time may not be exactly twice as fast as an Allegro 4/4, but it will be close.
– Tom Serb
21 hours ago
add a comment |
That sentence "Played twice as fast as written" indicates that someone must have a misunderstanding. Someone who probably thinks that quarter notes are supposed to be played at a certain speed. That person would need more knowledge and experience with both tempo markings and different kinds of time signatures.
I suppose you could say that in the beginning when you learn your first note values and make your first exercises with the values you do get used to think of quarter notes as indicating some basic speed. You need to crawl before you can walk so to speak. But you certainly better learn to walk before you write a work book on the matter.
add a comment |
That sentence "Played twice as fast as written" indicates that someone must have a misunderstanding. Someone who probably thinks that quarter notes are supposed to be played at a certain speed. That person would need more knowledge and experience with both tempo markings and different kinds of time signatures.
I suppose you could say that in the beginning when you learn your first note values and make your first exercises with the values you do get used to think of quarter notes as indicating some basic speed. You need to crawl before you can walk so to speak. But you certainly better learn to walk before you write a work book on the matter.
add a comment |
That sentence "Played twice as fast as written" indicates that someone must have a misunderstanding. Someone who probably thinks that quarter notes are supposed to be played at a certain speed. That person would need more knowledge and experience with both tempo markings and different kinds of time signatures.
I suppose you could say that in the beginning when you learn your first note values and make your first exercises with the values you do get used to think of quarter notes as indicating some basic speed. You need to crawl before you can walk so to speak. But you certainly better learn to walk before you write a work book on the matter.
That sentence "Played twice as fast as written" indicates that someone must have a misunderstanding. Someone who probably thinks that quarter notes are supposed to be played at a certain speed. That person would need more knowledge and experience with both tempo markings and different kinds of time signatures.
I suppose you could say that in the beginning when you learn your first note values and make your first exercises with the values you do get used to think of quarter notes as indicating some basic speed. You need to crawl before you can walk so to speak. But you certainly better learn to walk before you write a work book on the matter.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Lars Peter SchultzLars Peter Schultz
80717
80717
add a comment |
add a comment |
It may be that the e-book used the same notation example written in 4/4 earlier, and is indicating to play this version faster?
You are correct that the time signature is not the indicator for tempo. There is an old tradition of using Alla Breve to indicate the piece is a faster tempo, but current practice is to use tempo markings. The cut time choice changes the feel of the music because of the strong beat.
I thought the same, but couldn't find a 4/4 version earlier on. Yes, in 4/4 the 1st and 3rd beat would be the strong ones, but 3 would be less strong than 1. In 2/2 you just have strong - weak - strong - weak right? So if you would double the note values of a 4/4 and make it 2/2, you would get basically a stronger 3rd beat?
– Andy
yesterday
yes, but I've seen it used where the melody seems like it is in 4 but there isn't a second strong beat, so you get a strong - weak-weak-weak sound.
– Alphonso Balvenie
yesterday
add a comment |
It may be that the e-book used the same notation example written in 4/4 earlier, and is indicating to play this version faster?
You are correct that the time signature is not the indicator for tempo. There is an old tradition of using Alla Breve to indicate the piece is a faster tempo, but current practice is to use tempo markings. The cut time choice changes the feel of the music because of the strong beat.
I thought the same, but couldn't find a 4/4 version earlier on. Yes, in 4/4 the 1st and 3rd beat would be the strong ones, but 3 would be less strong than 1. In 2/2 you just have strong - weak - strong - weak right? So if you would double the note values of a 4/4 and make it 2/2, you would get basically a stronger 3rd beat?
– Andy
yesterday
yes, but I've seen it used where the melody seems like it is in 4 but there isn't a second strong beat, so you get a strong - weak-weak-weak sound.
– Alphonso Balvenie
yesterday
add a comment |
It may be that the e-book used the same notation example written in 4/4 earlier, and is indicating to play this version faster?
You are correct that the time signature is not the indicator for tempo. There is an old tradition of using Alla Breve to indicate the piece is a faster tempo, but current practice is to use tempo markings. The cut time choice changes the feel of the music because of the strong beat.
It may be that the e-book used the same notation example written in 4/4 earlier, and is indicating to play this version faster?
You are correct that the time signature is not the indicator for tempo. There is an old tradition of using Alla Breve to indicate the piece is a faster tempo, but current practice is to use tempo markings. The cut time choice changes the feel of the music because of the strong beat.
answered yesterday
Alphonso BalvenieAlphonso Balvenie
4,706717
4,706717
I thought the same, but couldn't find a 4/4 version earlier on. Yes, in 4/4 the 1st and 3rd beat would be the strong ones, but 3 would be less strong than 1. In 2/2 you just have strong - weak - strong - weak right? So if you would double the note values of a 4/4 and make it 2/2, you would get basically a stronger 3rd beat?
– Andy
yesterday
yes, but I've seen it used where the melody seems like it is in 4 but there isn't a second strong beat, so you get a strong - weak-weak-weak sound.
– Alphonso Balvenie
yesterday
add a comment |
I thought the same, but couldn't find a 4/4 version earlier on. Yes, in 4/4 the 1st and 3rd beat would be the strong ones, but 3 would be less strong than 1. In 2/2 you just have strong - weak - strong - weak right? So if you would double the note values of a 4/4 and make it 2/2, you would get basically a stronger 3rd beat?
– Andy
yesterday
yes, but I've seen it used where the melody seems like it is in 4 but there isn't a second strong beat, so you get a strong - weak-weak-weak sound.
– Alphonso Balvenie
yesterday
I thought the same, but couldn't find a 4/4 version earlier on. Yes, in 4/4 the 1st and 3rd beat would be the strong ones, but 3 would be less strong than 1. In 2/2 you just have strong - weak - strong - weak right? So if you would double the note values of a 4/4 and make it 2/2, you would get basically a stronger 3rd beat?
– Andy
yesterday
I thought the same, but couldn't find a 4/4 version earlier on. Yes, in 4/4 the 1st and 3rd beat would be the strong ones, but 3 would be less strong than 1. In 2/2 you just have strong - weak - strong - weak right? So if you would double the note values of a 4/4 and make it 2/2, you would get basically a stronger 3rd beat?
– Andy
yesterday
yes, but I've seen it used where the melody seems like it is in 4 but there isn't a second strong beat, so you get a strong - weak-weak-weak sound.
– Alphonso Balvenie
yesterday
yes, but I've seen it used where the melody seems like it is in 4 but there isn't a second strong beat, so you get a strong - weak-weak-weak sound.
– Alphonso Balvenie
yesterday
add a comment |
No, it's not current... and it doesn't really make much sense. (How fast is it "written"?)
Your assertion that time signatures do not dictate tempo is correct. Certain meters might imply faster tempi (6/4 is probably going to be used for slower pieces, and 12/16 is usually seen in fast pieces like gigues) but those are general usages, not requirements.
add a comment |
No, it's not current... and it doesn't really make much sense. (How fast is it "written"?)
Your assertion that time signatures do not dictate tempo is correct. Certain meters might imply faster tempi (6/4 is probably going to be used for slower pieces, and 12/16 is usually seen in fast pieces like gigues) but those are general usages, not requirements.
add a comment |
No, it's not current... and it doesn't really make much sense. (How fast is it "written"?)
Your assertion that time signatures do not dictate tempo is correct. Certain meters might imply faster tempi (6/4 is probably going to be used for slower pieces, and 12/16 is usually seen in fast pieces like gigues) but those are general usages, not requirements.
No, it's not current... and it doesn't really make much sense. (How fast is it "written"?)
Your assertion that time signatures do not dictate tempo is correct. Certain meters might imply faster tempi (6/4 is probably going to be used for slower pieces, and 12/16 is usually seen in fast pieces like gigues) but those are general usages, not requirements.
answered yesterday
TobyRushTobyRush
21112
21112
add a comment |
add a comment |
In a simple sense, it is correct. "Whatever tempo you have in mind, this is twice as fast as that". This works on the assumption that most people are used to the quarter note being the beat, which happens to be true.
But it basically means that the pulse of the song will be on the half-notes. If someone was standing there waving a baton in front of you, they would be counting the half-notes, and counting two beats per measure (2/2 time as you said).
If it says "moderato" on top of the page it would refer to the speed of the half-notes and if there is a bpm marking it would also refer to the half-notes, although it's common to make this explicit by writing "half-note = tempo" (see top two examples here http://www.janvanbiezen.nl/bachfig01.gif).
This is common in marching band music where writing in 2/4 would look awkward (I guess?).
add a comment |
In a simple sense, it is correct. "Whatever tempo you have in mind, this is twice as fast as that". This works on the assumption that most people are used to the quarter note being the beat, which happens to be true.
But it basically means that the pulse of the song will be on the half-notes. If someone was standing there waving a baton in front of you, they would be counting the half-notes, and counting two beats per measure (2/2 time as you said).
If it says "moderato" on top of the page it would refer to the speed of the half-notes and if there is a bpm marking it would also refer to the half-notes, although it's common to make this explicit by writing "half-note = tempo" (see top two examples here http://www.janvanbiezen.nl/bachfig01.gif).
This is common in marching band music where writing in 2/4 would look awkward (I guess?).
add a comment |
In a simple sense, it is correct. "Whatever tempo you have in mind, this is twice as fast as that". This works on the assumption that most people are used to the quarter note being the beat, which happens to be true.
But it basically means that the pulse of the song will be on the half-notes. If someone was standing there waving a baton in front of you, they would be counting the half-notes, and counting two beats per measure (2/2 time as you said).
If it says "moderato" on top of the page it would refer to the speed of the half-notes and if there is a bpm marking it would also refer to the half-notes, although it's common to make this explicit by writing "half-note = tempo" (see top two examples here http://www.janvanbiezen.nl/bachfig01.gif).
This is common in marching band music where writing in 2/4 would look awkward (I guess?).
In a simple sense, it is correct. "Whatever tempo you have in mind, this is twice as fast as that". This works on the assumption that most people are used to the quarter note being the beat, which happens to be true.
But it basically means that the pulse of the song will be on the half-notes. If someone was standing there waving a baton in front of you, they would be counting the half-notes, and counting two beats per measure (2/2 time as you said).
If it says "moderato" on top of the page it would refer to the speed of the half-notes and if there is a bpm marking it would also refer to the half-notes, although it's common to make this explicit by writing "half-note = tempo" (see top two examples here http://www.janvanbiezen.nl/bachfig01.gif).
This is common in marching band music where writing in 2/4 would look awkward (I guess?).
edited 15 hours ago
answered 15 hours ago
Daniel SigurdssonDaniel Sigurdsson
712
712
add a comment |
add a comment |
The e-book was trying to contrast two different meters, 2/2 to 4/4, kind of assuming that the reader might not notice or understand the difference at all. They were trying to provide a simplified first explanation of an unfamiliar meter symbol.
They meant "Crossing the C has the effect that the conductor's hand will start moving in cycles of two beats rather than four beats and you players will have to play twice faster to keep up."
Except that there's no conductor around which makes the entire difference more abstract to formulate and less constrained to execute.
add a comment |
The e-book was trying to contrast two different meters, 2/2 to 4/4, kind of assuming that the reader might not notice or understand the difference at all. They were trying to provide a simplified first explanation of an unfamiliar meter symbol.
They meant "Crossing the C has the effect that the conductor's hand will start moving in cycles of two beats rather than four beats and you players will have to play twice faster to keep up."
Except that there's no conductor around which makes the entire difference more abstract to formulate and less constrained to execute.
add a comment |
The e-book was trying to contrast two different meters, 2/2 to 4/4, kind of assuming that the reader might not notice or understand the difference at all. They were trying to provide a simplified first explanation of an unfamiliar meter symbol.
They meant "Crossing the C has the effect that the conductor's hand will start moving in cycles of two beats rather than four beats and you players will have to play twice faster to keep up."
Except that there's no conductor around which makes the entire difference more abstract to formulate and less constrained to execute.
The e-book was trying to contrast two different meters, 2/2 to 4/4, kind of assuming that the reader might not notice or understand the difference at all. They were trying to provide a simplified first explanation of an unfamiliar meter symbol.
They meant "Crossing the C has the effect that the conductor's hand will start moving in cycles of two beats rather than four beats and you players will have to play twice faster to keep up."
Except that there's no conductor around which makes the entire difference more abstract to formulate and less constrained to execute.
answered 15 hours ago
Jirka HanikaJirka Hanika
1313
1313
add a comment |
add a comment |
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I see the answers. And I get what they are saying. But... if you change nothing but the time signature to 4/4 and then played it would not sound twice as fast as written in cut time?
– b3ko
yesterday
1
@b3ko - Nah, it would only sound just as fast. You didn't change the tempo, after all.
– Dekkadeci
yesterday
Related question
– guidot
12 hours ago