Showing the closure of a compact subset need not be compactTopology: Example of a compact set but its closure not compactClosure of a compact space always compact?Isn't every subset of a compact space compact?Example on closure of a subset of a subspace of a topological space in Munkres's TopologyCompact subset of a non compact topological spaceWhy subspace of a compact space not compactIs $mathbbR$ compact under the co-countable and co-finite topologies?Show that $mathbbQ$ is not locally compact with a characterization of local compactnessIs the closure of a compact set compact?A topological space is locally compact then here is an open base at each point has all of its set with compact closure$BbbR^omega$ is not Locally CompactShowing a subset of $Bbb R^2$ is compact with the relative topology
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Showing the closure of a compact subset need not be compact
Topology: Example of a compact set but its closure not compactClosure of a compact space always compact?Isn't every subset of a compact space compact?Example on closure of a subset of a subspace of a topological space in Munkres's TopologyCompact subset of a non compact topological spaceWhy subspace of a compact space not compactIs $mathbbR$ compact under the co-countable and co-finite topologies?Show that $mathbbQ$ is not locally compact with a characterization of local compactnessIs the closure of a compact set compact?A topological space is locally compact then here is an open base at each point has all of its set with compact closure$BbbR^omega$ is not Locally CompactShowing a subset of $Bbb R^2$ is compact with the relative topology
$begingroup$
Could someone tell me if my line of reasoning is correct here:
Say we have the topological space $(mathbbN, T)$ comprising of the empty set together with all subsets of $Bbb N$ that contain the element $1$.
I want to show that the closure of a compact set in this topology need not be compact.
Let $A equiv 1, ...., n$.
Then, this set is compact as it can be covered by a single open set in $T$.
Its limit points are every number in $Bbb N$ which is not 1.
Therefore, its closure is $overlineA = Bbb N$
If the above is true then I get confused because it seems that $Bbb N$ is an open set in $T$ so therefore can it not also be covered with a single open set in T and so would be compact as well? (I know intuitively that compact, being in some sense a measure of 'smallness', would indicate that $Bbb N$ shouldn't be compact but I don't see how to get that line of reasoning using the properties of this topology)
general-topology proof-writing compactness
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Could someone tell me if my line of reasoning is correct here:
Say we have the topological space $(mathbbN, T)$ comprising of the empty set together with all subsets of $Bbb N$ that contain the element $1$.
I want to show that the closure of a compact set in this topology need not be compact.
Let $A equiv 1, ...., n$.
Then, this set is compact as it can be covered by a single open set in $T$.
Its limit points are every number in $Bbb N$ which is not 1.
Therefore, its closure is $overlineA = Bbb N$
If the above is true then I get confused because it seems that $Bbb N$ is an open set in $T$ so therefore can it not also be covered with a single open set in T and so would be compact as well? (I know intuitively that compact, being in some sense a measure of 'smallness', would indicate that $Bbb N$ shouldn't be compact but I don't see how to get that line of reasoning using the properties of this topology)
general-topology proof-writing compactness
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Your reasoning for $A$ being compact seems incorrect. $A = 1, ldots, n$ is compact because given an open cover $ B_alpha $ of $A$, we can find $B_alpha_k ni k$ for each $k in A$ so that $ B_alpha_k _k=1^n$ covers $A$. $mathbbN$ is not compact in your topology because the infinite cover $ 1, ldots, n _n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$ cannot be reduce to a finite subcover.
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– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad Ah okay , so I should think of each one of the points in A needing to be covered by an open set in T rather than the set itself being able to be fully covered by a single set. So then using that fact I could then use the rest of my argument to say that $Bbb N$ is not compact as given an open cover $B_alpha$ of $Bbb N$ then for each $nin Bbb N$ we can cover it with a set from T but we need infinitely many to do it for all points so it's not compact ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I'm not sure what you mean, but you should use this definition of compactness. I've included an argument for why $mathbbN$ is not compact in my comment above that you can revisit after understanding the linked definition.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad what you said in your comment is what I meant. Thanks ! But maybe the part I was unclear about was that I think I had been considering the set A=1,...n as being able to be covered by the set 1,....n in T, but as it says in the definition we have to think about A as being covered by points in a collection of open sets within A, and this can be reduced to a finite number of open sets which do this . Are the limit point and closure part of my argument is fine ,correct ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes, I think that part of your argument is correct. I posted a detailed answer anyways.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Could someone tell me if my line of reasoning is correct here:
Say we have the topological space $(mathbbN, T)$ comprising of the empty set together with all subsets of $Bbb N$ that contain the element $1$.
I want to show that the closure of a compact set in this topology need not be compact.
Let $A equiv 1, ...., n$.
Then, this set is compact as it can be covered by a single open set in $T$.
Its limit points are every number in $Bbb N$ which is not 1.
Therefore, its closure is $overlineA = Bbb N$
If the above is true then I get confused because it seems that $Bbb N$ is an open set in $T$ so therefore can it not also be covered with a single open set in T and so would be compact as well? (I know intuitively that compact, being in some sense a measure of 'smallness', would indicate that $Bbb N$ shouldn't be compact but I don't see how to get that line of reasoning using the properties of this topology)
general-topology proof-writing compactness
$endgroup$
Could someone tell me if my line of reasoning is correct here:
Say we have the topological space $(mathbbN, T)$ comprising of the empty set together with all subsets of $Bbb N$ that contain the element $1$.
I want to show that the closure of a compact set in this topology need not be compact.
Let $A equiv 1, ...., n$.
Then, this set is compact as it can be covered by a single open set in $T$.
Its limit points are every number in $Bbb N$ which is not 1.
Therefore, its closure is $overlineA = Bbb N$
If the above is true then I get confused because it seems that $Bbb N$ is an open set in $T$ so therefore can it not also be covered with a single open set in T and so would be compact as well? (I know intuitively that compact, being in some sense a measure of 'smallness', would indicate that $Bbb N$ shouldn't be compact but I don't see how to get that line of reasoning using the properties of this topology)
general-topology proof-writing compactness
general-topology proof-writing compactness
edited 23 hours ago
Austin Mohr
20.8k35299
20.8k35299
asked yesterday
can'tcauchycan'tcauchy
1,022417
1,022417
3
$begingroup$
Your reasoning for $A$ being compact seems incorrect. $A = 1, ldots, n$ is compact because given an open cover $ B_alpha $ of $A$, we can find $B_alpha_k ni k$ for each $k in A$ so that $ B_alpha_k _k=1^n$ covers $A$. $mathbbN$ is not compact in your topology because the infinite cover $ 1, ldots, n _n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$ cannot be reduce to a finite subcover.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad Ah okay , so I should think of each one of the points in A needing to be covered by an open set in T rather than the set itself being able to be fully covered by a single set. So then using that fact I could then use the rest of my argument to say that $Bbb N$ is not compact as given an open cover $B_alpha$ of $Bbb N$ then for each $nin Bbb N$ we can cover it with a set from T but we need infinitely many to do it for all points so it's not compact ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I'm not sure what you mean, but you should use this definition of compactness. I've included an argument for why $mathbbN$ is not compact in my comment above that you can revisit after understanding the linked definition.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad what you said in your comment is what I meant. Thanks ! But maybe the part I was unclear about was that I think I had been considering the set A=1,...n as being able to be covered by the set 1,....n in T, but as it says in the definition we have to think about A as being covered by points in a collection of open sets within A, and this can be reduced to a finite number of open sets which do this . Are the limit point and closure part of my argument is fine ,correct ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes, I think that part of your argument is correct. I posted a detailed answer anyways.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
3
$begingroup$
Your reasoning for $A$ being compact seems incorrect. $A = 1, ldots, n$ is compact because given an open cover $ B_alpha $ of $A$, we can find $B_alpha_k ni k$ for each $k in A$ so that $ B_alpha_k _k=1^n$ covers $A$. $mathbbN$ is not compact in your topology because the infinite cover $ 1, ldots, n _n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$ cannot be reduce to a finite subcover.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad Ah okay , so I should think of each one of the points in A needing to be covered by an open set in T rather than the set itself being able to be fully covered by a single set. So then using that fact I could then use the rest of my argument to say that $Bbb N$ is not compact as given an open cover $B_alpha$ of $Bbb N$ then for each $nin Bbb N$ we can cover it with a set from T but we need infinitely many to do it for all points so it's not compact ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I'm not sure what you mean, but you should use this definition of compactness. I've included an argument for why $mathbbN$ is not compact in my comment above that you can revisit after understanding the linked definition.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad what you said in your comment is what I meant. Thanks ! But maybe the part I was unclear about was that I think I had been considering the set A=1,...n as being able to be covered by the set 1,....n in T, but as it says in the definition we have to think about A as being covered by points in a collection of open sets within A, and this can be reduced to a finite number of open sets which do this . Are the limit point and closure part of my argument is fine ,correct ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes, I think that part of your argument is correct. I posted a detailed answer anyways.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Your reasoning for $A$ being compact seems incorrect. $A = 1, ldots, n$ is compact because given an open cover $ B_alpha $ of $A$, we can find $B_alpha_k ni k$ for each $k in A$ so that $ B_alpha_k _k=1^n$ covers $A$. $mathbbN$ is not compact in your topology because the infinite cover $ 1, ldots, n _n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$ cannot be reduce to a finite subcover.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your reasoning for $A$ being compact seems incorrect. $A = 1, ldots, n$ is compact because given an open cover $ B_alpha $ of $A$, we can find $B_alpha_k ni k$ for each $k in A$ so that $ B_alpha_k _k=1^n$ covers $A$. $mathbbN$ is not compact in your topology because the infinite cover $ 1, ldots, n _n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$ cannot be reduce to a finite subcover.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad Ah okay , so I should think of each one of the points in A needing to be covered by an open set in T rather than the set itself being able to be fully covered by a single set. So then using that fact I could then use the rest of my argument to say that $Bbb N$ is not compact as given an open cover $B_alpha$ of $Bbb N$ then for each $nin Bbb N$ we can cover it with a set from T but we need infinitely many to do it for all points so it's not compact ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad Ah okay , so I should think of each one of the points in A needing to be covered by an open set in T rather than the set itself being able to be fully covered by a single set. So then using that fact I could then use the rest of my argument to say that $Bbb N$ is not compact as given an open cover $B_alpha$ of $Bbb N$ then for each $nin Bbb N$ we can cover it with a set from T but we need infinitely many to do it for all points so it's not compact ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I'm not sure what you mean, but you should use this definition of compactness. I've included an argument for why $mathbbN$ is not compact in my comment above that you can revisit after understanding the linked definition.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'm not sure what you mean, but you should use this definition of compactness. I've included an argument for why $mathbbN$ is not compact in my comment above that you can revisit after understanding the linked definition.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad what you said in your comment is what I meant. Thanks ! But maybe the part I was unclear about was that I think I had been considering the set A=1,...n as being able to be covered by the set 1,....n in T, but as it says in the definition we have to think about A as being covered by points in a collection of open sets within A, and this can be reduced to a finite number of open sets which do this . Are the limit point and closure part of my argument is fine ,correct ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
@parsiad what you said in your comment is what I meant. Thanks ! But maybe the part I was unclear about was that I think I had been considering the set A=1,...n as being able to be covered by the set 1,....n in T, but as it says in the definition we have to think about A as being covered by points in a collection of open sets within A, and this can be reduced to a finite number of open sets which do this . Are the limit point and closure part of my argument is fine ,correct ?
$endgroup$
– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes, I think that part of your argument is correct. I posted a detailed answer anyways.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes, I think that part of your argument is correct. I posted a detailed answer anyways.
$endgroup$
– parsiad
23 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Definition. Let $A subset X$ where $(X, tau)$ is a topological space.
We call $A$ compact if for each collection $ B_alpha subset tau$ such that $cup_alpha B_alpha supset A$, we can find a finite subcollection $B_alpha_1, ldots, B_alpha_n$ such that $B_alpha_1 cup cdots cup B_alpha_n supset A$.
Remark. We call the original collection an open cover and the subcollection a finite subcover.
Consider the topology in your original question.
Let $A equiv 1, ldots, n$ and $mathscrB equiv B_alpha$ be an open cover of $A$.
Let $k$ be a member of $A$.
Since $mathscrB$ is a cover of $A$, we can find $alpha_k$ such that $k in B_alpha_k$.
Therefore, $B_alpha_k_k=1^n$ covers $A$, and hence $A$ is compact.
Next, let $C_n equiv 1,ldots,n$ and consider the cover $mathscrC equiv C_n_n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$.
Let $mathscrC^prime$ be a finite subcollection of $mathscrC$.
Note that the set $bigcup_C in mathscrC^prime C$ has a maximum element (call it $N$) and hence this subcollection does not cover $mathbbN$ (because none of its members contain $N+1$).
This shows that $mathbbN$ is not compact.
Next, let $n > 1$.
Since any open set in your topology must have 1 as a member, it follows that $n$ is a limit point of $A$.
Therefore, $overlineA = mathbbN$.
In summary, you have just found an example of a topology for which the closure of a compact set is not necessarily compact.
This is only possible for non-Hausdorff spaces.
Indeed, your topology is non-Hausdorff since any two non-empty neighbourhoods are not disjoint because they both contain the point 1.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is there a topological space $Y$ that has a compact subset $Asubset Y$ with infinitely many points ($|A|=infty$), and still $overlineA ne A$? Maybe even $overlineA$ is noncompact like above.
$endgroup$
– Jeppe Stig Nielsen
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JeppeStigNielsen: You can modify the same idea in OP's example to get what you want :-)
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– parsiad
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$A=1$ is compact as any cover of it has a one-element subcover.
$overlineA = mathbb N$ which is not compact, as witnessed by the open cover $$1,2,1,3,1,4,ldots, 1,n, ldots$$ of $mathbb N$ from which we cannot omit a member (or it wouldn't cover), so has no finite subcover.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
To the proposer: No infinite $Bsubset Bbb N$ is compact in this topology because $1,b: bin B$ is an open cover of $B$ with no finite sub-cover. And any finite subset (in any topological space) is compact. So in this topology on $Bbb N,$ a subset is compact iff it is finite. So if $1in Csubset Bbb N$ and $C$ is finite then $C$ is compact but $overline C=Bbb N$ is not compact.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
18 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
Definition. Let $A subset X$ where $(X, tau)$ is a topological space.
We call $A$ compact if for each collection $ B_alpha subset tau$ such that $cup_alpha B_alpha supset A$, we can find a finite subcollection $B_alpha_1, ldots, B_alpha_n$ such that $B_alpha_1 cup cdots cup B_alpha_n supset A$.
Remark. We call the original collection an open cover and the subcollection a finite subcover.
Consider the topology in your original question.
Let $A equiv 1, ldots, n$ and $mathscrB equiv B_alpha$ be an open cover of $A$.
Let $k$ be a member of $A$.
Since $mathscrB$ is a cover of $A$, we can find $alpha_k$ such that $k in B_alpha_k$.
Therefore, $B_alpha_k_k=1^n$ covers $A$, and hence $A$ is compact.
Next, let $C_n equiv 1,ldots,n$ and consider the cover $mathscrC equiv C_n_n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$.
Let $mathscrC^prime$ be a finite subcollection of $mathscrC$.
Note that the set $bigcup_C in mathscrC^prime C$ has a maximum element (call it $N$) and hence this subcollection does not cover $mathbbN$ (because none of its members contain $N+1$).
This shows that $mathbbN$ is not compact.
Next, let $n > 1$.
Since any open set in your topology must have 1 as a member, it follows that $n$ is a limit point of $A$.
Therefore, $overlineA = mathbbN$.
In summary, you have just found an example of a topology for which the closure of a compact set is not necessarily compact.
This is only possible for non-Hausdorff spaces.
Indeed, your topology is non-Hausdorff since any two non-empty neighbourhoods are not disjoint because they both contain the point 1.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is there a topological space $Y$ that has a compact subset $Asubset Y$ with infinitely many points ($|A|=infty$), and still $overlineA ne A$? Maybe even $overlineA$ is noncompact like above.
$endgroup$
– Jeppe Stig Nielsen
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JeppeStigNielsen: You can modify the same idea in OP's example to get what you want :-)
$endgroup$
– parsiad
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Definition. Let $A subset X$ where $(X, tau)$ is a topological space.
We call $A$ compact if for each collection $ B_alpha subset tau$ such that $cup_alpha B_alpha supset A$, we can find a finite subcollection $B_alpha_1, ldots, B_alpha_n$ such that $B_alpha_1 cup cdots cup B_alpha_n supset A$.
Remark. We call the original collection an open cover and the subcollection a finite subcover.
Consider the topology in your original question.
Let $A equiv 1, ldots, n$ and $mathscrB equiv B_alpha$ be an open cover of $A$.
Let $k$ be a member of $A$.
Since $mathscrB$ is a cover of $A$, we can find $alpha_k$ such that $k in B_alpha_k$.
Therefore, $B_alpha_k_k=1^n$ covers $A$, and hence $A$ is compact.
Next, let $C_n equiv 1,ldots,n$ and consider the cover $mathscrC equiv C_n_n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$.
Let $mathscrC^prime$ be a finite subcollection of $mathscrC$.
Note that the set $bigcup_C in mathscrC^prime C$ has a maximum element (call it $N$) and hence this subcollection does not cover $mathbbN$ (because none of its members contain $N+1$).
This shows that $mathbbN$ is not compact.
Next, let $n > 1$.
Since any open set in your topology must have 1 as a member, it follows that $n$ is a limit point of $A$.
Therefore, $overlineA = mathbbN$.
In summary, you have just found an example of a topology for which the closure of a compact set is not necessarily compact.
This is only possible for non-Hausdorff spaces.
Indeed, your topology is non-Hausdorff since any two non-empty neighbourhoods are not disjoint because they both contain the point 1.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is there a topological space $Y$ that has a compact subset $Asubset Y$ with infinitely many points ($|A|=infty$), and still $overlineA ne A$? Maybe even $overlineA$ is noncompact like above.
$endgroup$
– Jeppe Stig Nielsen
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JeppeStigNielsen: You can modify the same idea in OP's example to get what you want :-)
$endgroup$
– parsiad
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Definition. Let $A subset X$ where $(X, tau)$ is a topological space.
We call $A$ compact if for each collection $ B_alpha subset tau$ such that $cup_alpha B_alpha supset A$, we can find a finite subcollection $B_alpha_1, ldots, B_alpha_n$ such that $B_alpha_1 cup cdots cup B_alpha_n supset A$.
Remark. We call the original collection an open cover and the subcollection a finite subcover.
Consider the topology in your original question.
Let $A equiv 1, ldots, n$ and $mathscrB equiv B_alpha$ be an open cover of $A$.
Let $k$ be a member of $A$.
Since $mathscrB$ is a cover of $A$, we can find $alpha_k$ such that $k in B_alpha_k$.
Therefore, $B_alpha_k_k=1^n$ covers $A$, and hence $A$ is compact.
Next, let $C_n equiv 1,ldots,n$ and consider the cover $mathscrC equiv C_n_n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$.
Let $mathscrC^prime$ be a finite subcollection of $mathscrC$.
Note that the set $bigcup_C in mathscrC^prime C$ has a maximum element (call it $N$) and hence this subcollection does not cover $mathbbN$ (because none of its members contain $N+1$).
This shows that $mathbbN$ is not compact.
Next, let $n > 1$.
Since any open set in your topology must have 1 as a member, it follows that $n$ is a limit point of $A$.
Therefore, $overlineA = mathbbN$.
In summary, you have just found an example of a topology for which the closure of a compact set is not necessarily compact.
This is only possible for non-Hausdorff spaces.
Indeed, your topology is non-Hausdorff since any two non-empty neighbourhoods are not disjoint because they both contain the point 1.
$endgroup$
Definition. Let $A subset X$ where $(X, tau)$ is a topological space.
We call $A$ compact if for each collection $ B_alpha subset tau$ such that $cup_alpha B_alpha supset A$, we can find a finite subcollection $B_alpha_1, ldots, B_alpha_n$ such that $B_alpha_1 cup cdots cup B_alpha_n supset A$.
Remark. We call the original collection an open cover and the subcollection a finite subcover.
Consider the topology in your original question.
Let $A equiv 1, ldots, n$ and $mathscrB equiv B_alpha$ be an open cover of $A$.
Let $k$ be a member of $A$.
Since $mathscrB$ is a cover of $A$, we can find $alpha_k$ such that $k in B_alpha_k$.
Therefore, $B_alpha_k_k=1^n$ covers $A$, and hence $A$ is compact.
Next, let $C_n equiv 1,ldots,n$ and consider the cover $mathscrC equiv C_n_n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$.
Let $mathscrC^prime$ be a finite subcollection of $mathscrC$.
Note that the set $bigcup_C in mathscrC^prime C$ has a maximum element (call it $N$) and hence this subcollection does not cover $mathbbN$ (because none of its members contain $N+1$).
This shows that $mathbbN$ is not compact.
Next, let $n > 1$.
Since any open set in your topology must have 1 as a member, it follows that $n$ is a limit point of $A$.
Therefore, $overlineA = mathbbN$.
In summary, you have just found an example of a topology for which the closure of a compact set is not necessarily compact.
This is only possible for non-Hausdorff spaces.
Indeed, your topology is non-Hausdorff since any two non-empty neighbourhoods are not disjoint because they both contain the point 1.
answered 23 hours ago
parsiadparsiad
18.7k32453
18.7k32453
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Is there a topological space $Y$ that has a compact subset $Asubset Y$ with infinitely many points ($|A|=infty$), and still $overlineA ne A$? Maybe even $overlineA$ is noncompact like above.
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– Jeppe Stig Nielsen
16 hours ago
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@JeppeStigNielsen: You can modify the same idea in OP's example to get what you want :-)
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– parsiad
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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Is there a topological space $Y$ that has a compact subset $Asubset Y$ with infinitely many points ($|A|=infty$), and still $overlineA ne A$? Maybe even $overlineA$ is noncompact like above.
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– Jeppe Stig Nielsen
16 hours ago
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@JeppeStigNielsen: You can modify the same idea in OP's example to get what you want :-)
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– parsiad
9 hours ago
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Is there a topological space $Y$ that has a compact subset $Asubset Y$ with infinitely many points ($|A|=infty$), and still $overlineA ne A$? Maybe even $overlineA$ is noncompact like above.
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– Jeppe Stig Nielsen
16 hours ago
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Is there a topological space $Y$ that has a compact subset $Asubset Y$ with infinitely many points ($|A|=infty$), and still $overlineA ne A$? Maybe even $overlineA$ is noncompact like above.
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– Jeppe Stig Nielsen
16 hours ago
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@JeppeStigNielsen: You can modify the same idea in OP's example to get what you want :-)
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– parsiad
9 hours ago
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@JeppeStigNielsen: You can modify the same idea in OP's example to get what you want :-)
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– parsiad
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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$A=1$ is compact as any cover of it has a one-element subcover.
$overlineA = mathbb N$ which is not compact, as witnessed by the open cover $$1,2,1,3,1,4,ldots, 1,n, ldots$$ of $mathbb N$ from which we cannot omit a member (or it wouldn't cover), so has no finite subcover.
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To the proposer: No infinite $Bsubset Bbb N$ is compact in this topology because $1,b: bin B$ is an open cover of $B$ with no finite sub-cover. And any finite subset (in any topological space) is compact. So in this topology on $Bbb N,$ a subset is compact iff it is finite. So if $1in Csubset Bbb N$ and $C$ is finite then $C$ is compact but $overline C=Bbb N$ is not compact.
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– DanielWainfleet
18 hours ago
add a comment |
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$A=1$ is compact as any cover of it has a one-element subcover.
$overlineA = mathbb N$ which is not compact, as witnessed by the open cover $$1,2,1,3,1,4,ldots, 1,n, ldots$$ of $mathbb N$ from which we cannot omit a member (or it wouldn't cover), so has no finite subcover.
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$begingroup$
To the proposer: No infinite $Bsubset Bbb N$ is compact in this topology because $1,b: bin B$ is an open cover of $B$ with no finite sub-cover. And any finite subset (in any topological space) is compact. So in this topology on $Bbb N,$ a subset is compact iff it is finite. So if $1in Csubset Bbb N$ and $C$ is finite then $C$ is compact but $overline C=Bbb N$ is not compact.
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– DanielWainfleet
18 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$A=1$ is compact as any cover of it has a one-element subcover.
$overlineA = mathbb N$ which is not compact, as witnessed by the open cover $$1,2,1,3,1,4,ldots, 1,n, ldots$$ of $mathbb N$ from which we cannot omit a member (or it wouldn't cover), so has no finite subcover.
$endgroup$
$A=1$ is compact as any cover of it has a one-element subcover.
$overlineA = mathbb N$ which is not compact, as witnessed by the open cover $$1,2,1,3,1,4,ldots, 1,n, ldots$$ of $mathbb N$ from which we cannot omit a member (or it wouldn't cover), so has no finite subcover.
answered 20 hours ago
Henno BrandsmaHenno Brandsma
115k349125
115k349125
$begingroup$
To the proposer: No infinite $Bsubset Bbb N$ is compact in this topology because $1,b: bin B$ is an open cover of $B$ with no finite sub-cover. And any finite subset (in any topological space) is compact. So in this topology on $Bbb N,$ a subset is compact iff it is finite. So if $1in Csubset Bbb N$ and $C$ is finite then $C$ is compact but $overline C=Bbb N$ is not compact.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
18 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To the proposer: No infinite $Bsubset Bbb N$ is compact in this topology because $1,b: bin B$ is an open cover of $B$ with no finite sub-cover. And any finite subset (in any topological space) is compact. So in this topology on $Bbb N,$ a subset is compact iff it is finite. So if $1in Csubset Bbb N$ and $C$ is finite then $C$ is compact but $overline C=Bbb N$ is not compact.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
To the proposer: No infinite $Bsubset Bbb N$ is compact in this topology because $1,b: bin B$ is an open cover of $B$ with no finite sub-cover. And any finite subset (in any topological space) is compact. So in this topology on $Bbb N,$ a subset is compact iff it is finite. So if $1in Csubset Bbb N$ and $C$ is finite then $C$ is compact but $overline C=Bbb N$ is not compact.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
To the proposer: No infinite $Bsubset Bbb N$ is compact in this topology because $1,b: bin B$ is an open cover of $B$ with no finite sub-cover. And any finite subset (in any topological space) is compact. So in this topology on $Bbb N,$ a subset is compact iff it is finite. So if $1in Csubset Bbb N$ and $C$ is finite then $C$ is compact but $overline C=Bbb N$ is not compact.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
18 hours ago
add a comment |
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Your reasoning for $A$ being compact seems incorrect. $A = 1, ldots, n$ is compact because given an open cover $ B_alpha $ of $A$, we can find $B_alpha_k ni k$ for each $k in A$ so that $ B_alpha_k _k=1^n$ covers $A$. $mathbbN$ is not compact in your topology because the infinite cover $ 1, ldots, n _n=1^infty$ of $mathbbN$ cannot be reduce to a finite subcover.
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– parsiad
23 hours ago
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@parsiad Ah okay , so I should think of each one of the points in A needing to be covered by an open set in T rather than the set itself being able to be fully covered by a single set. So then using that fact I could then use the rest of my argument to say that $Bbb N$ is not compact as given an open cover $B_alpha$ of $Bbb N$ then for each $nin Bbb N$ we can cover it with a set from T but we need infinitely many to do it for all points so it's not compact ?
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– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
1
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I'm not sure what you mean, but you should use this definition of compactness. I've included an argument for why $mathbbN$ is not compact in my comment above that you can revisit after understanding the linked definition.
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– parsiad
23 hours ago
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@parsiad what you said in your comment is what I meant. Thanks ! But maybe the part I was unclear about was that I think I had been considering the set A=1,...n as being able to be covered by the set 1,....n in T, but as it says in the definition we have to think about A as being covered by points in a collection of open sets within A, and this can be reduced to a finite number of open sets which do this . Are the limit point and closure part of my argument is fine ,correct ?
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– can'tcauchy
23 hours ago
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Yes, I think that part of your argument is correct. I posted a detailed answer anyways.
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– parsiad
23 hours ago