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What does it take to recreate microchips like 68000 and 6502 in their original process nodes nowadays?
Is it possible to adapt a standard PC floppy drive to work in an IBM PS/2?DIY Project using 1970s 8-bit CPU, is it possible?Were there any “off the shelf” graphics chips that supported 2D sprites in the 70's and 80's?Why did Commodore sell CPUs to its competitors?Osborne Turbomate IV Information?Connecting Panasonic “Penwriter” RK-P400C to modern PC using USB to serial cableHow did early x86 BIOS programmers manage to program full blown TUIs given very few bytes of ROM/EPROM?Did Apple bundle a specific monitor with the Apple II+ for schools?Why did the VIC-II and SID use 6 µm technology in the era of 3 µm and 1.5 µm?
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I am trying to figure out what type of machines could be used to reconstruct these chips nowadays. It doesn't need to use exactly the same machines used to build them, it's just that the product should be very close.
I cannot find much about the original chips though. The 6502 has plenty of documentation, but I cannot find much about the original manufacturing machines used to manufacture it.
The 68000 is harder find, as it was manufactured by many different companies, so, not even I can find what was the original node. Wikipedia says the original was done in 3.5 um and Hitachi later shrank for a 2.7 um node.
It used HMOS, licensed from Intel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depletion-load_NMOS_logic#The_HMOS_processes But, there was several versions of this process, so, I am not sure if there was any improvement to the node. (I would like to also reproduce those used in arcade machines and videogames, which used 7.5MhZ, 10MhZ an and 12MhZ vesions).
For these nodes, it seems the g-line of lamp mercury was used(436nm). But some steppers are compatible with the h-line 404.7nm, which seems to be close to violet laser pointers (405nm), which are diode based.
It seems that these thick nodes could use contact steppers, but there is not much information about them. Perhaps their used ceased due to low yields? (that's all I could find).
hardware old-hardware-adaptation
asked 8 hours ago
user36088user36088
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I am trying to figure out what type of machines could be used to reconstruct these chips nowadays. It doesn't need to use exactly the same machines used to build them, it's just that the product should be very close.
I cannot find much about the original chips though. The 6502 has plenty of documentation, but I cannot find much about the original manufacturing machines used to manufacture it.
The 68000 is harder find, as it was manufactured by many different companies, so, not even I can find what was the original node. Wikipedia says the original was done in 3.5 um and Hitachi later shrank for a 2.7 um node.
It used HMOS, licensed from Intel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depletion-load_NMOS_logic#The_HMOS_processes But, there was several versions of this process, so, I am not sure if there was any improvement to the node. (I would like to also reproduce those used in arcade machines and videogames, which used 7.5MhZ, 10MhZ an and 12MhZ vesions).
For these nodes, it seems the g-line of lamp mercury was used(436nm). But some steppers are compatible with the h-line 404.7nm, which seems to be close to violet laser pointers (405nm), which are diode based.
It seems that these thick nodes could use contact steppers, but there is not much information about them. Perhaps their used ceased due to low yields? (that's all I could find).
hardware old-hardware-adaptation
asked 8 hours ago
user36088user36088
161 bronze badge
New contributor
user36088 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
And unless you are a millionaire and can afford those type of machines, hobbyists can recreate those chips easily and affordably in FPGAs (and there's plenty of existing projects).
– dirkt
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
I am trying to figure out what type of machines could be used to reconstruct these chips nowadays. It doesn't need to use exactly the same machines used to build them, it's just that the product should be very close.
I cannot find much about the original chips though. The 6502 has plenty of documentation, but I cannot find much about the original manufacturing machines used to manufacture it.
The 68000 is harder find, as it was manufactured by many different companies, so, not even I can find what was the original node. Wikipedia says the original was done in 3.5 um and Hitachi later shrank for a 2.7 um node.
It used HMOS, licensed from Intel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depletion-load_NMOS_logic#The_HMOS_processes But, there was several versions of this process, so, I am not sure if there was any improvement to the node. (I would like to also reproduce those used in arcade machines and videogames, which used 7.5MhZ, 10MhZ an and 12MhZ vesions).
For these nodes, it seems the g-line of lamp mercury was used(436nm). But some steppers are compatible with the h-line 404.7nm, which seems to be close to violet laser pointers (405nm), which are diode based.
It seems that these thick nodes could use contact steppers, but there is not much information about them. Perhaps their used ceased due to low yields? (that's all I could find).
hardware old-hardware-adaptation
asked 8 hours ago
user36088user36088
161 bronze badge
New contributor
user36088 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I am trying to figure out what type of machines could be used to reconstruct these chips nowadays. It doesn't need to use exactly the same machines used to build them, it's just that the product should be very close.
I cannot find much about the original chips though. The 6502 has plenty of documentation, but I cannot find much about the original manufacturing machines used to manufacture it.
The 68000 is harder find, as it was manufactured by many different companies, so, not even I can find what was the original node. Wikipedia says the original was done in 3.5 um and Hitachi later shrank for a 2.7 um node.
It used HMOS, licensed from Intel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depletion-load_NMOS_logic#The_HMOS_processes But, there was several versions of this process, so, I am not sure if there was any improvement to the node. (I would like to also reproduce those used in arcade machines and videogames, which used 7.5MhZ, 10MhZ an and 12MhZ vesions).
For these nodes, it seems the g-line of lamp mercury was used(436nm). But some steppers are compatible with the h-line 404.7nm, which seems to be close to violet laser pointers (405nm), which are diode based.
It seems that these thick nodes could use contact steppers, but there is not much information about them. Perhaps their used ceased due to low yields? (that's all I could find).
hardware old-hardware-adaptation
hardware old-hardware-adaptation
asked 8 hours ago
user36088user36088
161 bronze badge
New contributor
user36088 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
user36088user36088
161 bronze badge
New contributor
user36088 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
user36088user36088
161 bronze badge
New contributor
user36088 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
user36088user36088
161 bronze badge
asked 8 hours ago
user36088user36088
161 bronze badge
161 bronze badge
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user36088 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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And unless you are a millionaire and can afford those type of machines, hobbyists can recreate those chips easily and affordably in FPGAs (and there's plenty of existing projects).
– dirkt
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
And unless you are a millionaire and can afford those type of machines, hobbyists can recreate those chips easily and affordably in FPGAs (and there's plenty of existing projects).
– dirkt
1 hour ago
And unless you are a millionaire and can afford those type of machines, hobbyists can recreate those chips easily and affordably in FPGAs (and there's plenty of existing projects).
– dirkt
1 hour ago
And unless you are a millionaire and can afford those type of machines, hobbyists can recreate those chips easily and affordably in FPGAs (and there's plenty of existing projects).
– dirkt
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
1 Answer
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It should be feasible to manufacture NMOS-process parts using 0.6µm equipment that is still in current use. WDC's W65C02S, as well as their other current products, are made at TSMC on 0.6µm, though they are CMOS chips.
You would need to obtain examples of the original masks, have them converted to a format usable by the newer equipment (probably whole-wafer masks with the "stepping" procedure already baked in), and discuss with silicon-process experts how to map the steps of an NMOS process onto those available in a CMOS plant.
Of course, if what you actually want is a 65C02, then just buy a new one direct from one of WDC's distributors.
answered 5 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
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It should be feasible to manufacture NMOS-process parts using 0.6µm equipment that is still in current use. WDC's W65C02S, as well as their other current products, are made at TSMC on 0.6µm, though they are CMOS chips.
You would need to obtain examples of the original masks, have them converted to a format usable by the newer equipment (probably whole-wafer masks with the "stepping" procedure already baked in), and discuss with silicon-process experts how to map the steps of an NMOS process onto those available in a CMOS plant.
Of course, if what you actually want is a 65C02, then just buy a new one direct from one of WDC's distributors.
answered 5 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
1,94011 silver badges11 bronze badges
add a comment
|
It should be feasible to manufacture NMOS-process parts using 0.6µm equipment that is still in current use. WDC's W65C02S, as well as their other current products, are made at TSMC on 0.6µm, though they are CMOS chips.
You would need to obtain examples of the original masks, have them converted to a format usable by the newer equipment (probably whole-wafer masks with the "stepping" procedure already baked in), and discuss with silicon-process experts how to map the steps of an NMOS process onto those available in a CMOS plant.
Of course, if what you actually want is a 65C02, then just buy a new one direct from one of WDC's distributors.
answered 5 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
1,94011 silver badges11 bronze badges
add a comment
|
It should be feasible to manufacture NMOS-process parts using 0.6µm equipment that is still in current use. WDC's W65C02S, as well as their other current products, are made at TSMC on 0.6µm, though they are CMOS chips.
You would need to obtain examples of the original masks, have them converted to a format usable by the newer equipment (probably whole-wafer masks with the "stepping" procedure already baked in), and discuss with silicon-process experts how to map the steps of an NMOS process onto those available in a CMOS plant.
Of course, if what you actually want is a 65C02, then just buy a new one direct from one of WDC's distributors.
answered 5 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
1,94011 silver badges11 bronze badges
It should be feasible to manufacture NMOS-process parts using 0.6µm equipment that is still in current use. WDC's W65C02S, as well as their other current products, are made at TSMC on 0.6µm, though they are CMOS chips.
You would need to obtain examples of the original masks, have them converted to a format usable by the newer equipment (probably whole-wafer masks with the "stepping" procedure already baked in), and discuss with silicon-process experts how to map the steps of an NMOS process onto those available in a CMOS plant.
Of course, if what you actually want is a 65C02, then just buy a new one direct from one of WDC's distributors.
answered 5 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
1,94011 silver badges11 bronze badges
answered 5 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
1,94011 silver badges11 bronze badges
answered 5 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
1,94011 silver badges11 bronze badges
answered 5 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
1,94011 silver badges11 bronze badges
1,94011 silver badges11 bronze badges
add a comment
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And unless you are a millionaire and can afford those type of machines, hobbyists can recreate those chips easily and affordably in FPGAs (and there's plenty of existing projects).
– dirkt
1 hour ago