Can you take the additional action from the fighter's Action Surge feature before you take your regular action?Do you get Extra Attacks when you ready an attack and use it in your own turn?Can a Fighter use their Action Surge while Surprised to get an Action?Can an Eldritch Knight use the bonus-action attack granted by War Magic before casting the spell as an action?Can you interpose an Action Surge Dash between two attacks?Does an Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature allow Extra Attacks?Does a fighter's Action Surge trigger Extra Attack?Can you Ready two actions using Action SurgeCan an Eldritch Knight use their Arcane Charge feature before falling?Can you make a bonus-action attack from Two-Weapon Fighting before you take your action?How does the UA Sharpshooter fighter's Snap Shot feature interact with Extra Attack?Can an Eldritch Knight use Action Surge and thus Arcane Charge even when surprised?
In what sense is SL(2,q) "very far from abelian"?
How to accompany with piano in latin music when given only chords?
Scorched receptacle
Search for something difficult to count/estimate
Found a minor bug, affecting 1% of users. What should QA do?
Could the Queen overturn the UK Supreme Court ruling regarding prorogation of Parliament?
How to change the order of integration when limit is a function?
How to get a smooth, uniform ParametricPlot of a 2D Region?
Is American Sign Language phonetic?
Can an animal produce milk all the time?
Dotted footnote rule
Tikz diagonal filling pattern
How come the Russian cognate for the Czech word "čerstvý" (fresh) means entirely the opposite thing (stale)?
PBY-5A exhaust modification?
Redirect output on-the-fly - looks not possible in Linux, why?
What’s the BrE for “shotgun wedding”?
How to explain that the sums of numerators over sums of denominators isn't the same as the mean of ratios?
Why does thallium hydroxide increase the yield of product in a Suzuki reaction?
Conveying the idea of "down the road" (i.e. in the future)
Unicode-math and declaring symbol font
Is power set functor determined by its image on objects?
Anonymous reviewer disclosed his identity. Should I thank him by name?
The answer is the same (tricky puzzle!)
What's the difference between motherboard and chassis?
Can you take the additional action from the fighter's Action Surge feature before you take your regular action?
Do you get Extra Attacks when you ready an attack and use it in your own turn?Can a Fighter use their Action Surge while Surprised to get an Action?Can an Eldritch Knight use the bonus-action attack granted by War Magic before casting the spell as an action?Can you interpose an Action Surge Dash between two attacks?Does an Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature allow Extra Attacks?Does a fighter's Action Surge trigger Extra Attack?Can you Ready two actions using Action SurgeCan an Eldritch Knight use their Arcane Charge feature before falling?Can you make a bonus-action attack from Two-Weapon Fighting before you take your action?How does the UA Sharpshooter fighter's Snap Shot feature interact with Extra Attack?Can an Eldritch Knight use Action Surge and thus Arcane Charge even when surprised?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty
margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
The fighter's Action Surge feature (post errata mentioned in the 2019 Sage Advice Compendium) now states:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
The Eldritch Knight fighter gets the Arcane Charge feature (PHB, p. 75), which states:
At 15th level, you gain the ability to teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see when you use your Action Surge. You can teleport before or after the additional action.
Are you allowed to take Action Surge's "additional" action, thus allowing you to use Arcane Charge, and then take your regular action?
If you have to use your normal action first, then your options are Action --> Teleport --> Action Surge and Action --> Action Surge --> Teleport. If you can use Action Surge first, this gives you the new option of Teleport --> Action Surge --> Action.
dnd-5e class-feature actions fighter
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The fighter's Action Surge feature (post errata mentioned in the 2019 Sage Advice Compendium) now states:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
The Eldritch Knight fighter gets the Arcane Charge feature (PHB, p. 75), which states:
At 15th level, you gain the ability to teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see when you use your Action Surge. You can teleport before or after the additional action.
Are you allowed to take Action Surge's "additional" action, thus allowing you to use Arcane Charge, and then take your regular action?
If you have to use your normal action first, then your options are Action --> Teleport --> Action Surge and Action --> Action Surge --> Teleport. If you can use Action Surge first, this gives you the new option of Teleport --> Action Surge --> Action.
dnd-5e class-feature actions fighter
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Am I missing why it would matter?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch it determines whether you can teleport or not. For example: Attack action, Teleport, Attack action is different from Teleport, Attack action, Attack action. I've edited it in now
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why are there ellipses in the Arcane Charge description? Isn't that the entire text of the feature?
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ryanthompson I wasn't sure honestly, I found the quote on another question in two pieces and haven't had access to the wording, I'll remove it
$endgroup$
– Medix2
3 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The fighter's Action Surge feature (post errata mentioned in the 2019 Sage Advice Compendium) now states:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
The Eldritch Knight fighter gets the Arcane Charge feature (PHB, p. 75), which states:
At 15th level, you gain the ability to teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see when you use your Action Surge. You can teleport before or after the additional action.
Are you allowed to take Action Surge's "additional" action, thus allowing you to use Arcane Charge, and then take your regular action?
If you have to use your normal action first, then your options are Action --> Teleport --> Action Surge and Action --> Action Surge --> Teleport. If you can use Action Surge first, this gives you the new option of Teleport --> Action Surge --> Action.
dnd-5e class-feature actions fighter
$endgroup$
The fighter's Action Surge feature (post errata mentioned in the 2019 Sage Advice Compendium) now states:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
The Eldritch Knight fighter gets the Arcane Charge feature (PHB, p. 75), which states:
At 15th level, you gain the ability to teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see when you use your Action Surge. You can teleport before or after the additional action.
Are you allowed to take Action Surge's "additional" action, thus allowing you to use Arcane Charge, and then take your regular action?
If you have to use your normal action first, then your options are Action --> Teleport --> Action Surge and Action --> Action Surge --> Teleport. If you can use Action Surge first, this gives you the new option of Teleport --> Action Surge --> Action.
dnd-5e class-feature actions fighter
dnd-5e class-feature actions fighter
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast♦
34.4k5 gold badges123 silver badges216 bronze badges
34.4k5 gold badges123 silver badges216 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Medix2Medix2
13.4k2 gold badges50 silver badges131 bronze badges
13.4k2 gold badges50 silver badges131 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
Am I missing why it would matter?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch it determines whether you can teleport or not. For example: Attack action, Teleport, Attack action is different from Teleport, Attack action, Attack action. I've edited it in now
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why are there ellipses in the Arcane Charge description? Isn't that the entire text of the feature?
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ryanthompson I wasn't sure honestly, I found the quote on another question in two pieces and haven't had access to the wording, I'll remove it
$endgroup$
– Medix2
3 hours ago
add a comment
|
1
$begingroup$
Am I missing why it would matter?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch it determines whether you can teleport or not. For example: Attack action, Teleport, Attack action is different from Teleport, Attack action, Attack action. I've edited it in now
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why are there ellipses in the Arcane Charge description? Isn't that the entire text of the feature?
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ryanthompson I wasn't sure honestly, I found the quote on another question in two pieces and haven't had access to the wording, I'll remove it
$endgroup$
– Medix2
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Am I missing why it would matter?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Am I missing why it would matter?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch it determines whether you can teleport or not. For example: Attack action, Teleport, Attack action is different from Teleport, Attack action, Attack action. I've edited it in now
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch it determines whether you can teleport or not. For example: Attack action, Teleport, Attack action is different from Teleport, Attack action, Attack action. I've edited it in now
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why are there ellipses in the Arcane Charge description? Isn't that the entire text of the feature?
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why are there ellipses in the Arcane Charge description? Isn't that the entire text of the feature?
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ryanthompson I wasn't sure honestly, I found the quote on another question in two pieces and haven't had access to the wording, I'll remove it
$endgroup$
– Medix2
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ryanthompson I wasn't sure honestly, I found the quote on another question in two pieces and haven't had access to the wording, I'll remove it
$endgroup$
– Medix2
3 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Yes, you can Action Surge before taking your first action.
In the PHB, Action Surge doesn't mention a condition of using your Action Surge aside from being on your turn. If it had said, "after using your action" this wouldn't work, but because it has no such specifier, you can use your Action Surge before your original action.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Strict RAW: The "Action Surge action" is always your second action
The only mechanical description of how Action Surge works on the turn it is used is:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
As written, Action Surge isn't a feature that you "activate" to gain an additional action, which you can then use at any time later in your turn.* You use your Action Surge feature simply by taking an additional action, and you can't take an addition action until you've already taken an action first. If you haven't begun taking a second action on your turn, you haven't used your Action Surge (yet). Hence, there is no way to use Arcane Charge before taking your first action, because the earliest you can use it is right before you start taking your second action.
To put it another way, when you use Action Surge to take an additional action, while it is often useful to speak in terms of a "regular action" and an "Action Surge action", you really just have 2 identical actions, and the only difference between them is that one happens after the other. Action Surge is only used if you actually take that second action, after which the second action becomes unavailable until your next rest.
A workaround: Ready your first action, then teleport
There is a way to use your first action after the teleport: by readying it. For example, you could use your first action to ready an attack against your target as soon as they are within range, then, then starting your second action and teleporting to the enemy. Your readied action triggers, granting you 3 attacks, and then you make 3 more attacks with your second action. (Note: I'm assuming a 15th level fighter, with 2 Extra Attacks, since Arcane Charge is gained at 15th level.) The only "cost" to doing this is that you must use your reaction to trigger your readied attack action, which leaves you without the ability to make an attack of opportunity until your next turn. Of course, this also works if one or both of your actions isn't attacking with a weapon. For example, you could deliver 2 touch spells to your target by readying the first one and then teleporting and releasing it as a reaction, then casting the second one.
Rules as fun: Go ahead and allow it
The above argument is a pretty technical, and there's really no reason as DM that you can't rule that as soon as the fighter decides that they want to use their Action Surge, they gain the teleport to use before or after either action. This provides a very minor situational increase in the fighter's power: specifically, they will be able to make their full 6 attacks against an enemy that wasn't within their movement range by teleporting to them before their first action, and have their reaction left for an attack of opportunity.
The one thing to be careful about in this case is when the fighter uses their Arcane Charge teleport, then takes one action, and is then prevented from taking their second action (e.g. by being knocked unconscious). If this happens, you should consider the Action Surge as having been used as soon as the teleport happens, because even though the fighter didn't take their second action, they used a feature that depended on them using the Action Surge. If you don't rule it this way, there may be some exploits that allow the fighter to gain infinite teleports by repeatedly teleporting and then "cancelling" their Action Surge by intentionally incapacitating themself.
*For an example of something that does work in an "activate now, use later" way, see the Dash action, which says:
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn.
If Action Surge was meant to work like this, it should say something along the lines of:
When you use your Action Surge, you gain an additional action that you can use during the current turn.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@Medix2 I'm saying that if you only take 1 action, you haven't actually used Action Surge yet. Action Surge is only "activated" when you start taking your 2nd action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes but how do you come to that conclusion? Why does it being "additional" mean it must also be second?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Medix2 The first time you take an action on a turn, you aren't taking an additional action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Actually, now that I'm checking, you would get your extra attacks as long as your readied attack triggers on your turn, as described here. I'll edit appropriately.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Hmm, I actually just realized that my answer would also imply that the additional action from Haste must come after your first action on your turn, and I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to think about it.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
38 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f156932%2fcan-you-take-the-additional-action-from-the-fighters-action-surge-feature-befor%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Yes, you can Action Surge before taking your first action.
In the PHB, Action Surge doesn't mention a condition of using your Action Surge aside from being on your turn. If it had said, "after using your action" this wouldn't work, but because it has no such specifier, you can use your Action Surge before your original action.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Yes, you can Action Surge before taking your first action.
In the PHB, Action Surge doesn't mention a condition of using your Action Surge aside from being on your turn. If it had said, "after using your action" this wouldn't work, but because it has no such specifier, you can use your Action Surge before your original action.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Yes, you can Action Surge before taking your first action.
In the PHB, Action Surge doesn't mention a condition of using your Action Surge aside from being on your turn. If it had said, "after using your action" this wouldn't work, but because it has no such specifier, you can use your Action Surge before your original action.
$endgroup$
Yes, you can Action Surge before taking your first action.
In the PHB, Action Surge doesn't mention a condition of using your Action Surge aside from being on your turn. If it had said, "after using your action" this wouldn't work, but because it has no such specifier, you can use your Action Surge before your original action.
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast♦
34.4k5 gold badges123 silver badges216 bronze badges
34.4k5 gold badges123 silver badges216 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
1,0572 silver badges16 bronze badges
1,0572 silver badges16 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Strict RAW: The "Action Surge action" is always your second action
The only mechanical description of how Action Surge works on the turn it is used is:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
As written, Action Surge isn't a feature that you "activate" to gain an additional action, which you can then use at any time later in your turn.* You use your Action Surge feature simply by taking an additional action, and you can't take an addition action until you've already taken an action first. If you haven't begun taking a second action on your turn, you haven't used your Action Surge (yet). Hence, there is no way to use Arcane Charge before taking your first action, because the earliest you can use it is right before you start taking your second action.
To put it another way, when you use Action Surge to take an additional action, while it is often useful to speak in terms of a "regular action" and an "Action Surge action", you really just have 2 identical actions, and the only difference between them is that one happens after the other. Action Surge is only used if you actually take that second action, after which the second action becomes unavailable until your next rest.
A workaround: Ready your first action, then teleport
There is a way to use your first action after the teleport: by readying it. For example, you could use your first action to ready an attack against your target as soon as they are within range, then, then starting your second action and teleporting to the enemy. Your readied action triggers, granting you 3 attacks, and then you make 3 more attacks with your second action. (Note: I'm assuming a 15th level fighter, with 2 Extra Attacks, since Arcane Charge is gained at 15th level.) The only "cost" to doing this is that you must use your reaction to trigger your readied attack action, which leaves you without the ability to make an attack of opportunity until your next turn. Of course, this also works if one or both of your actions isn't attacking with a weapon. For example, you could deliver 2 touch spells to your target by readying the first one and then teleporting and releasing it as a reaction, then casting the second one.
Rules as fun: Go ahead and allow it
The above argument is a pretty technical, and there's really no reason as DM that you can't rule that as soon as the fighter decides that they want to use their Action Surge, they gain the teleport to use before or after either action. This provides a very minor situational increase in the fighter's power: specifically, they will be able to make their full 6 attacks against an enemy that wasn't within their movement range by teleporting to them before their first action, and have their reaction left for an attack of opportunity.
The one thing to be careful about in this case is when the fighter uses their Arcane Charge teleport, then takes one action, and is then prevented from taking their second action (e.g. by being knocked unconscious). If this happens, you should consider the Action Surge as having been used as soon as the teleport happens, because even though the fighter didn't take their second action, they used a feature that depended on them using the Action Surge. If you don't rule it this way, there may be some exploits that allow the fighter to gain infinite teleports by repeatedly teleporting and then "cancelling" their Action Surge by intentionally incapacitating themself.
*For an example of something that does work in an "activate now, use later" way, see the Dash action, which says:
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn.
If Action Surge was meant to work like this, it should say something along the lines of:
When you use your Action Surge, you gain an additional action that you can use during the current turn.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@Medix2 I'm saying that if you only take 1 action, you haven't actually used Action Surge yet. Action Surge is only "activated" when you start taking your 2nd action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes but how do you come to that conclusion? Why does it being "additional" mean it must also be second?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Medix2 The first time you take an action on a turn, you aren't taking an additional action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Actually, now that I'm checking, you would get your extra attacks as long as your readied attack triggers on your turn, as described here. I'll edit appropriately.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Hmm, I actually just realized that my answer would also imply that the additional action from Haste must come after your first action on your turn, and I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to think about it.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
38 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Strict RAW: The "Action Surge action" is always your second action
The only mechanical description of how Action Surge works on the turn it is used is:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
As written, Action Surge isn't a feature that you "activate" to gain an additional action, which you can then use at any time later in your turn.* You use your Action Surge feature simply by taking an additional action, and you can't take an addition action until you've already taken an action first. If you haven't begun taking a second action on your turn, you haven't used your Action Surge (yet). Hence, there is no way to use Arcane Charge before taking your first action, because the earliest you can use it is right before you start taking your second action.
To put it another way, when you use Action Surge to take an additional action, while it is often useful to speak in terms of a "regular action" and an "Action Surge action", you really just have 2 identical actions, and the only difference between them is that one happens after the other. Action Surge is only used if you actually take that second action, after which the second action becomes unavailable until your next rest.
A workaround: Ready your first action, then teleport
There is a way to use your first action after the teleport: by readying it. For example, you could use your first action to ready an attack against your target as soon as they are within range, then, then starting your second action and teleporting to the enemy. Your readied action triggers, granting you 3 attacks, and then you make 3 more attacks with your second action. (Note: I'm assuming a 15th level fighter, with 2 Extra Attacks, since Arcane Charge is gained at 15th level.) The only "cost" to doing this is that you must use your reaction to trigger your readied attack action, which leaves you without the ability to make an attack of opportunity until your next turn. Of course, this also works if one or both of your actions isn't attacking with a weapon. For example, you could deliver 2 touch spells to your target by readying the first one and then teleporting and releasing it as a reaction, then casting the second one.
Rules as fun: Go ahead and allow it
The above argument is a pretty technical, and there's really no reason as DM that you can't rule that as soon as the fighter decides that they want to use their Action Surge, they gain the teleport to use before or after either action. This provides a very minor situational increase in the fighter's power: specifically, they will be able to make their full 6 attacks against an enemy that wasn't within their movement range by teleporting to them before their first action, and have their reaction left for an attack of opportunity.
The one thing to be careful about in this case is when the fighter uses their Arcane Charge teleport, then takes one action, and is then prevented from taking their second action (e.g. by being knocked unconscious). If this happens, you should consider the Action Surge as having been used as soon as the teleport happens, because even though the fighter didn't take their second action, they used a feature that depended on them using the Action Surge. If you don't rule it this way, there may be some exploits that allow the fighter to gain infinite teleports by repeatedly teleporting and then "cancelling" their Action Surge by intentionally incapacitating themself.
*For an example of something that does work in an "activate now, use later" way, see the Dash action, which says:
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn.
If Action Surge was meant to work like this, it should say something along the lines of:
When you use your Action Surge, you gain an additional action that you can use during the current turn.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@Medix2 I'm saying that if you only take 1 action, you haven't actually used Action Surge yet. Action Surge is only "activated" when you start taking your 2nd action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes but how do you come to that conclusion? Why does it being "additional" mean it must also be second?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Medix2 The first time you take an action on a turn, you aren't taking an additional action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Actually, now that I'm checking, you would get your extra attacks as long as your readied attack triggers on your turn, as described here. I'll edit appropriately.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Hmm, I actually just realized that my answer would also imply that the additional action from Haste must come after your first action on your turn, and I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to think about it.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
38 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Strict RAW: The "Action Surge action" is always your second action
The only mechanical description of how Action Surge works on the turn it is used is:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
As written, Action Surge isn't a feature that you "activate" to gain an additional action, which you can then use at any time later in your turn.* You use your Action Surge feature simply by taking an additional action, and you can't take an addition action until you've already taken an action first. If you haven't begun taking a second action on your turn, you haven't used your Action Surge (yet). Hence, there is no way to use Arcane Charge before taking your first action, because the earliest you can use it is right before you start taking your second action.
To put it another way, when you use Action Surge to take an additional action, while it is often useful to speak in terms of a "regular action" and an "Action Surge action", you really just have 2 identical actions, and the only difference between them is that one happens after the other. Action Surge is only used if you actually take that second action, after which the second action becomes unavailable until your next rest.
A workaround: Ready your first action, then teleport
There is a way to use your first action after the teleport: by readying it. For example, you could use your first action to ready an attack against your target as soon as they are within range, then, then starting your second action and teleporting to the enemy. Your readied action triggers, granting you 3 attacks, and then you make 3 more attacks with your second action. (Note: I'm assuming a 15th level fighter, with 2 Extra Attacks, since Arcane Charge is gained at 15th level.) The only "cost" to doing this is that you must use your reaction to trigger your readied attack action, which leaves you without the ability to make an attack of opportunity until your next turn. Of course, this also works if one or both of your actions isn't attacking with a weapon. For example, you could deliver 2 touch spells to your target by readying the first one and then teleporting and releasing it as a reaction, then casting the second one.
Rules as fun: Go ahead and allow it
The above argument is a pretty technical, and there's really no reason as DM that you can't rule that as soon as the fighter decides that they want to use their Action Surge, they gain the teleport to use before or after either action. This provides a very minor situational increase in the fighter's power: specifically, they will be able to make their full 6 attacks against an enemy that wasn't within their movement range by teleporting to them before their first action, and have their reaction left for an attack of opportunity.
The one thing to be careful about in this case is when the fighter uses their Arcane Charge teleport, then takes one action, and is then prevented from taking their second action (e.g. by being knocked unconscious). If this happens, you should consider the Action Surge as having been used as soon as the teleport happens, because even though the fighter didn't take their second action, they used a feature that depended on them using the Action Surge. If you don't rule it this way, there may be some exploits that allow the fighter to gain infinite teleports by repeatedly teleporting and then "cancelling" their Action Surge by intentionally incapacitating themself.
*For an example of something that does work in an "activate now, use later" way, see the Dash action, which says:
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn.
If Action Surge was meant to work like this, it should say something along the lines of:
When you use your Action Surge, you gain an additional action that you can use during the current turn.
$endgroup$
Strict RAW: The "Action Surge action" is always your second action
The only mechanical description of how Action Surge works on the turn it is used is:
On your turn, you can take one additional action.
As written, Action Surge isn't a feature that you "activate" to gain an additional action, which you can then use at any time later in your turn.* You use your Action Surge feature simply by taking an additional action, and you can't take an addition action until you've already taken an action first. If you haven't begun taking a second action on your turn, you haven't used your Action Surge (yet). Hence, there is no way to use Arcane Charge before taking your first action, because the earliest you can use it is right before you start taking your second action.
To put it another way, when you use Action Surge to take an additional action, while it is often useful to speak in terms of a "regular action" and an "Action Surge action", you really just have 2 identical actions, and the only difference between them is that one happens after the other. Action Surge is only used if you actually take that second action, after which the second action becomes unavailable until your next rest.
A workaround: Ready your first action, then teleport
There is a way to use your first action after the teleport: by readying it. For example, you could use your first action to ready an attack against your target as soon as they are within range, then, then starting your second action and teleporting to the enemy. Your readied action triggers, granting you 3 attacks, and then you make 3 more attacks with your second action. (Note: I'm assuming a 15th level fighter, with 2 Extra Attacks, since Arcane Charge is gained at 15th level.) The only "cost" to doing this is that you must use your reaction to trigger your readied attack action, which leaves you without the ability to make an attack of opportunity until your next turn. Of course, this also works if one or both of your actions isn't attacking with a weapon. For example, you could deliver 2 touch spells to your target by readying the first one and then teleporting and releasing it as a reaction, then casting the second one.
Rules as fun: Go ahead and allow it
The above argument is a pretty technical, and there's really no reason as DM that you can't rule that as soon as the fighter decides that they want to use their Action Surge, they gain the teleport to use before or after either action. This provides a very minor situational increase in the fighter's power: specifically, they will be able to make their full 6 attacks against an enemy that wasn't within their movement range by teleporting to them before their first action, and have their reaction left for an attack of opportunity.
The one thing to be careful about in this case is when the fighter uses their Arcane Charge teleport, then takes one action, and is then prevented from taking their second action (e.g. by being knocked unconscious). If this happens, you should consider the Action Surge as having been used as soon as the teleport happens, because even though the fighter didn't take their second action, they used a feature that depended on them using the Action Surge. If you don't rule it this way, there may be some exploits that allow the fighter to gain infinite teleports by repeatedly teleporting and then "cancelling" their Action Surge by intentionally incapacitating themself.
*For an example of something that does work in an "activate now, use later" way, see the Dash action, which says:
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn.
If Action Surge was meant to work like this, it should say something along the lines of:
When you use your Action Surge, you gain an additional action that you can use during the current turn.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 3 hours ago
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
20.9k2 gold badges70 silver badges140 bronze badges
20.9k2 gold badges70 silver badges140 bronze badges
$begingroup$
@Medix2 I'm saying that if you only take 1 action, you haven't actually used Action Surge yet. Action Surge is only "activated" when you start taking your 2nd action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes but how do you come to that conclusion? Why does it being "additional" mean it must also be second?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Medix2 The first time you take an action on a turn, you aren't taking an additional action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Actually, now that I'm checking, you would get your extra attacks as long as your readied attack triggers on your turn, as described here. I'll edit appropriately.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Hmm, I actually just realized that my answer would also imply that the additional action from Haste must come after your first action on your turn, and I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to think about it.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
38 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
@Medix2 I'm saying that if you only take 1 action, you haven't actually used Action Surge yet. Action Surge is only "activated" when you start taking your 2nd action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes but how do you come to that conclusion? Why does it being "additional" mean it must also be second?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Medix2 The first time you take an action on a turn, you aren't taking an additional action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Actually, now that I'm checking, you would get your extra attacks as long as your readied attack triggers on your turn, as described here. I'll edit appropriately.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Hmm, I actually just realized that my answer would also imply that the additional action from Haste must come after your first action on your turn, and I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to think about it.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Medix2 I'm saying that if you only take 1 action, you haven't actually used Action Surge yet. Action Surge is only "activated" when you start taking your 2nd action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Medix2 I'm saying that if you only take 1 action, you haven't actually used Action Surge yet. Action Surge is only "activated" when you start taking your 2nd action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes but how do you come to that conclusion? Why does it being "additional" mean it must also be second?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes but how do you come to that conclusion? Why does it being "additional" mean it must also be second?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
2 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Medix2 The first time you take an action on a turn, you aren't taking an additional action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Medix2 The first time you take an action on a turn, you aren't taking an additional action.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Actually, now that I'm checking, you would get your extra attacks as long as your readied attack triggers on your turn, as described here. I'll edit appropriately.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Actually, now that I'm checking, you would get your extra attacks as long as your readied attack triggers on your turn, as described here. I'll edit appropriately.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Hmm, I actually just realized that my answer would also imply that the additional action from Haste must come after your first action on your turn, and I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to think about it.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Medix2 Hmm, I actually just realized that my answer would also imply that the additional action from Haste must come after your first action on your turn, and I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to think about it.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
38 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f156932%2fcan-you-take-the-additional-action-from-the-fighters-action-surge-feature-befor%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
$begingroup$
Am I missing why it would matter?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch it determines whether you can teleport or not. For example: Attack action, Teleport, Attack action is different from Teleport, Attack action, Attack action. I've edited it in now
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why are there ellipses in the Arcane Charge description? Isn't that the entire text of the feature?
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ryanthompson I wasn't sure honestly, I found the quote on another question in two pieces and haven't had access to the wording, I'll remove it
$endgroup$
– Medix2
3 hours ago