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Is this password scheme legit?


Definitely safest password storage scheme?Hash(master + hostname) password scheme for a server poolPasswords In Securing Network DevicesStrong password vs. restriction on number of attemptsSimple-to-implement ad-hoc password validation schemeHow secure is this method of password generation?Group password creation schemeWhat is the weakest scheme in common use for password hashing?






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8















I received an invitation for an IT security fair (https://www.it-sa.de/en).



They additionally delivered a password "Kryptonizer". That is a little card to hang on your keychain with the following (example values, my translation):




It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin". This card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.



Input Start ABC DEF GHI JKL MNO PQRS TUV WXYZ
Output 4uR=? x 1 F 3 Y i # 9



Original version in german:




Hintergrund: Passwort-Hackern wird der Zugang zu persönlichen Daten im
Internet häufig viel zu leicht gemacht. Der Grund liegt auf der Hand:
Passwörter, die wir uns merken können, sind meistens nicht besonders
kryptisch, sondern orientieren sich an gängigen Namen oder Wörtern wie
"Snowden" oder "Admin".




Everything from the output is random for every single card (66 different characters to choose from). Now we have to choose an "easy" password (they recommend at least 8 characters):



Input: HELLOWORLD
Output: 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31


They also recommend to use this card for only one password and change it, if you lose the card.



Is this password scheme good? It comes from a big security fair with many experts.



My novice guess is, that you have a reduced entropy because of only 8 different characters (+ 1 start sequence), but as long as your card stays unknown, the attacker can't exploit this fact.










share|improve this question









New contributor



izlin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Can you elaborate on what this card is being used for? It does seem like a rudimentary password hashing scheme designed for manual checks - especially with "simple passwords" you have reduced security. A password that matches the hash can easily be produced for every hash in one pass.

    – Tobi Nary
    9 hours ago











  • This looks like a very weak passwords hashing scheme. Given a hashed password, it won't be too difficult to reverse it into a list of possible plain text passwords (the reversing algorithm is essentially the T9 algorithm.

    – Lie Ryan
    9 hours ago











  • @TobiNary To cite the card (translated) "It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin"", this card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.

    – izlin
    9 hours ago











  • @izlin do you have the German Text as well? This does seem like first class sarcasm.

    – Tobi Nary
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    @TobiNary I actually explain this very concept right in the beginning of my answer. Yes I absolutely agree that teaching people to use passwords is way better than to rely on what is effectively a crutch. And this may be perfectly fine for a 28-year-old college graduate with a MSc. in Engineering. But for the 57-year-old Karen from Accounting, this proves to be substantially more difficult.

    – MechMK1
    3 hours ago

















8















I received an invitation for an IT security fair (https://www.it-sa.de/en).



They additionally delivered a password "Kryptonizer". That is a little card to hang on your keychain with the following (example values, my translation):




It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin". This card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.



Input Start ABC DEF GHI JKL MNO PQRS TUV WXYZ
Output 4uR=? x 1 F 3 Y i # 9



Original version in german:




Hintergrund: Passwort-Hackern wird der Zugang zu persönlichen Daten im
Internet häufig viel zu leicht gemacht. Der Grund liegt auf der Hand:
Passwörter, die wir uns merken können, sind meistens nicht besonders
kryptisch, sondern orientieren sich an gängigen Namen oder Wörtern wie
"Snowden" oder "Admin".




Everything from the output is random for every single card (66 different characters to choose from). Now we have to choose an "easy" password (they recommend at least 8 characters):



Input: HELLOWORLD
Output: 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31


They also recommend to use this card for only one password and change it, if you lose the card.



Is this password scheme good? It comes from a big security fair with many experts.



My novice guess is, that you have a reduced entropy because of only 8 different characters (+ 1 start sequence), but as long as your card stays unknown, the attacker can't exploit this fact.










share|improve this question









New contributor



izlin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Can you elaborate on what this card is being used for? It does seem like a rudimentary password hashing scheme designed for manual checks - especially with "simple passwords" you have reduced security. A password that matches the hash can easily be produced for every hash in one pass.

    – Tobi Nary
    9 hours ago











  • This looks like a very weak passwords hashing scheme. Given a hashed password, it won't be too difficult to reverse it into a list of possible plain text passwords (the reversing algorithm is essentially the T9 algorithm.

    – Lie Ryan
    9 hours ago











  • @TobiNary To cite the card (translated) "It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin"", this card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.

    – izlin
    9 hours ago











  • @izlin do you have the German Text as well? This does seem like first class sarcasm.

    – Tobi Nary
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    @TobiNary I actually explain this very concept right in the beginning of my answer. Yes I absolutely agree that teaching people to use passwords is way better than to rely on what is effectively a crutch. And this may be perfectly fine for a 28-year-old college graduate with a MSc. in Engineering. But for the 57-year-old Karen from Accounting, this proves to be substantially more difficult.

    – MechMK1
    3 hours ago













8












8








8








I received an invitation for an IT security fair (https://www.it-sa.de/en).



They additionally delivered a password "Kryptonizer". That is a little card to hang on your keychain with the following (example values, my translation):




It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin". This card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.



Input Start ABC DEF GHI JKL MNO PQRS TUV WXYZ
Output 4uR=? x 1 F 3 Y i # 9



Original version in german:




Hintergrund: Passwort-Hackern wird der Zugang zu persönlichen Daten im
Internet häufig viel zu leicht gemacht. Der Grund liegt auf der Hand:
Passwörter, die wir uns merken können, sind meistens nicht besonders
kryptisch, sondern orientieren sich an gängigen Namen oder Wörtern wie
"Snowden" oder "Admin".




Everything from the output is random for every single card (66 different characters to choose from). Now we have to choose an "easy" password (they recommend at least 8 characters):



Input: HELLOWORLD
Output: 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31


They also recommend to use this card for only one password and change it, if you lose the card.



Is this password scheme good? It comes from a big security fair with many experts.



My novice guess is, that you have a reduced entropy because of only 8 different characters (+ 1 start sequence), but as long as your card stays unknown, the attacker can't exploit this fact.










share|improve this question









New contributor



izlin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I received an invitation for an IT security fair (https://www.it-sa.de/en).



They additionally delivered a password "Kryptonizer". That is a little card to hang on your keychain with the following (example values, my translation):




It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin". This card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.



Input Start ABC DEF GHI JKL MNO PQRS TUV WXYZ
Output 4uR=? x 1 F 3 Y i # 9



Original version in german:




Hintergrund: Passwort-Hackern wird der Zugang zu persönlichen Daten im
Internet häufig viel zu leicht gemacht. Der Grund liegt auf der Hand:
Passwörter, die wir uns merken können, sind meistens nicht besonders
kryptisch, sondern orientieren sich an gängigen Namen oder Wörtern wie
"Snowden" oder "Admin".




Everything from the output is random for every single card (66 different characters to choose from). Now we have to choose an "easy" password (they recommend at least 8 characters):



Input: HELLOWORLD
Output: 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31


They also recommend to use this card for only one password and change it, if you lose the card.



Is this password scheme good? It comes from a big security fair with many experts.



My novice guess is, that you have a reduced entropy because of only 8 different characters (+ 1 start sequence), but as long as your card stays unknown, the attacker can't exploit this fact.







passwords password-cracking






share|improve this question









New contributor



izlin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









New contributor



izlin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago







izlin













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Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked 9 hours ago









izlinizlin

1414 bronze badges




1414 bronze badges




New contributor



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Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




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Check out our Code of Conduct.

















  • Can you elaborate on what this card is being used for? It does seem like a rudimentary password hashing scheme designed for manual checks - especially with "simple passwords" you have reduced security. A password that matches the hash can easily be produced for every hash in one pass.

    – Tobi Nary
    9 hours ago











  • This looks like a very weak passwords hashing scheme. Given a hashed password, it won't be too difficult to reverse it into a list of possible plain text passwords (the reversing algorithm is essentially the T9 algorithm.

    – Lie Ryan
    9 hours ago











  • @TobiNary To cite the card (translated) "It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin"", this card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.

    – izlin
    9 hours ago











  • @izlin do you have the German Text as well? This does seem like first class sarcasm.

    – Tobi Nary
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    @TobiNary I actually explain this very concept right in the beginning of my answer. Yes I absolutely agree that teaching people to use passwords is way better than to rely on what is effectively a crutch. And this may be perfectly fine for a 28-year-old college graduate with a MSc. in Engineering. But for the 57-year-old Karen from Accounting, this proves to be substantially more difficult.

    – MechMK1
    3 hours ago

















  • Can you elaborate on what this card is being used for? It does seem like a rudimentary password hashing scheme designed for manual checks - especially with "simple passwords" you have reduced security. A password that matches the hash can easily be produced for every hash in one pass.

    – Tobi Nary
    9 hours ago











  • This looks like a very weak passwords hashing scheme. Given a hashed password, it won't be too difficult to reverse it into a list of possible plain text passwords (the reversing algorithm is essentially the T9 algorithm.

    – Lie Ryan
    9 hours ago











  • @TobiNary To cite the card (translated) "It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin"", this card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.

    – izlin
    9 hours ago











  • @izlin do you have the German Text as well? This does seem like first class sarcasm.

    – Tobi Nary
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    @TobiNary I actually explain this very concept right in the beginning of my answer. Yes I absolutely agree that teaching people to use passwords is way better than to rely on what is effectively a crutch. And this may be perfectly fine for a 28-year-old college graduate with a MSc. in Engineering. But for the 57-year-old Karen from Accounting, this proves to be substantially more difficult.

    – MechMK1
    3 hours ago
















Can you elaborate on what this card is being used for? It does seem like a rudimentary password hashing scheme designed for manual checks - especially with "simple passwords" you have reduced security. A password that matches the hash can easily be produced for every hash in one pass.

– Tobi Nary
9 hours ago





Can you elaborate on what this card is being used for? It does seem like a rudimentary password hashing scheme designed for manual checks - especially with "simple passwords" you have reduced security. A password that matches the hash can easily be produced for every hash in one pass.

– Tobi Nary
9 hours ago













This looks like a very weak passwords hashing scheme. Given a hashed password, it won't be too difficult to reverse it into a list of possible plain text passwords (the reversing algorithm is essentially the T9 algorithm.

– Lie Ryan
9 hours ago





This looks like a very weak passwords hashing scheme. Given a hashed password, it won't be too difficult to reverse it into a list of possible plain text passwords (the reversing algorithm is essentially the T9 algorithm.

– Lie Ryan
9 hours ago













@TobiNary To cite the card (translated) "It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin"", this card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.

– izlin
9 hours ago





@TobiNary To cite the card (translated) "It is often too easy for hackers to acquire personal information. The reason: Passwords that we can easily remember aren't cryptic. They are often common names or words like "Snowden" or "Admin"", this card tries to fix this by making easy to remember passwords crpytic.

– izlin
9 hours ago













@izlin do you have the German Text as well? This does seem like first class sarcasm.

– Tobi Nary
7 hours ago





@izlin do you have the German Text as well? This does seem like first class sarcasm.

– Tobi Nary
7 hours ago




1




1





@TobiNary I actually explain this very concept right in the beginning of my answer. Yes I absolutely agree that teaching people to use passwords is way better than to rely on what is effectively a crutch. And this may be perfectly fine for a 28-year-old college graduate with a MSc. in Engineering. But for the 57-year-old Karen from Accounting, this proves to be substantially more difficult.

– MechMK1
3 hours ago





@TobiNary I actually explain this very concept right in the beginning of my answer. Yes I absolutely agree that teaching people to use passwords is way better than to rely on what is effectively a crutch. And this may be perfectly fine for a 28-year-old college graduate with a MSc. in Engineering. But for the 57-year-old Karen from Accounting, this proves to be substantially more difficult.

– MechMK1
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















12
















Full disclosure: I work for a company, which distributes such cards. This answer however is my own personal opinion of them.





The idea of these cards is that some users are just really bad at remembering passwords or pass phrases. The naïve approach would be to tell users "Just get better at remembering passwords", but experience has shown that such advice is counter-productive with some users.



Their memory seems to be hard-wired to only recall simple words, which probably have something to do with their work. So somebody working in a car factory may remember a word such as Engine.



Engine, of course, is a terrible password - both in length and entropy. So the "Kryptonizer" or similarly named cards try to add both of those.



Length is added by the prefix, 4uR=? in this case. It immediately increases the password length by 5 characters, bumping a 6 character password up to an 11 character password. Not perfect, but an improvement.



Entropy is added by substituting each character with a randomly chosen character. Not exactly a 1:1 substitution, but close enough. Since each card is unique, one can't build a pre-made rule on how to mangle each dictionary phrase.



In this example, Engine would turn into 4uR=?1YFFY1. Is this a good password? Probably not great, but certainly a lot better than Engine.



Problems with this scheme



Of course, it's not a perfect system. A good passphrase can't be replaced by a little paper card. Since three input characters map to one output character, the resulting password loses entropy instead of gaining it. The net entropy gain is that attackers can't use dictionary attacks as easily anymore. In order to do that, they would need to gain access to the mapping or perform an exhaustive search. If an attacker knows that such a card was used, they can use this to their advantage to speed up an exhaustive search.



Furthermore, users are expected to keep their card around, and many will probably leave it on their desk, under their keyboard or in similar bad locations. If they lose their card, they will probably lose their password too. They will need a new card, and change their password as well, which is not that good for usability.



Summary



So, is this a good system? Ultimately, I would say you have to judge it in the context of what it is designed to do. It's an aid for a specific group of users, who would otherwise use ungodly terrible passwords. And helping users choose marginally better passwords for a negligible cost is a good thing, in my opinion. Of course, it is not a silver bullet that magically solves the problem of credential storage and generation.



If possible, always use a password manager, let it generate long, high-entropy passwords and store them for you in a safe manner.



If this is not possible (e.g. for OS logins), I recommend either using Diceware or creating a long, nonsensical sentence, such as TheGreenLightFromOurEyesShinesThroughTheMirrorOfTime.. Just ensure that such a sentence isn't taken from a book or movie.






share|improve this answer



























  • You may as well just print a proper randomly-generated 16-character string on the card for them to use as their password.

    – OrangeDog
    14 mins ago











  • @OrangeDog No, because then you have to trust the card designer with your (full) password.

    – Jon Bentley
    7 mins ago











  • @OrangeDog not only that but anybody who sees the card would have your password!

    – Digital Chris
    1 min ago


















5















It's always depends on what you compare it with! What is the realistic alternative, that users would actually use, to using this card?



Clearly, 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31 is a much better password than HELLOWORLD. If you are giving this card to a non-techie whos not going to pick good passwords or use a password manager anyway, then it's an improvement.



On the other hand, using this system is much worse than just picking a random 16 letter password that you'll never remember and storing it in your password manager. An attacker who knows what letters there are on the card (e.g. by looking at leaked passwords from the same user) could easily crack it - suddenly it is only 40 bits of entropy!



So is this a good idea for people who might use a password manager? No, absolutely not. For your grandpa? Maybe! Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.






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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    12
















    Full disclosure: I work for a company, which distributes such cards. This answer however is my own personal opinion of them.





    The idea of these cards is that some users are just really bad at remembering passwords or pass phrases. The naïve approach would be to tell users "Just get better at remembering passwords", but experience has shown that such advice is counter-productive with some users.



    Their memory seems to be hard-wired to only recall simple words, which probably have something to do with their work. So somebody working in a car factory may remember a word such as Engine.



    Engine, of course, is a terrible password - both in length and entropy. So the "Kryptonizer" or similarly named cards try to add both of those.



    Length is added by the prefix, 4uR=? in this case. It immediately increases the password length by 5 characters, bumping a 6 character password up to an 11 character password. Not perfect, but an improvement.



    Entropy is added by substituting each character with a randomly chosen character. Not exactly a 1:1 substitution, but close enough. Since each card is unique, one can't build a pre-made rule on how to mangle each dictionary phrase.



    In this example, Engine would turn into 4uR=?1YFFY1. Is this a good password? Probably not great, but certainly a lot better than Engine.



    Problems with this scheme



    Of course, it's not a perfect system. A good passphrase can't be replaced by a little paper card. Since three input characters map to one output character, the resulting password loses entropy instead of gaining it. The net entropy gain is that attackers can't use dictionary attacks as easily anymore. In order to do that, they would need to gain access to the mapping or perform an exhaustive search. If an attacker knows that such a card was used, they can use this to their advantage to speed up an exhaustive search.



    Furthermore, users are expected to keep their card around, and many will probably leave it on their desk, under their keyboard or in similar bad locations. If they lose their card, they will probably lose their password too. They will need a new card, and change their password as well, which is not that good for usability.



    Summary



    So, is this a good system? Ultimately, I would say you have to judge it in the context of what it is designed to do. It's an aid for a specific group of users, who would otherwise use ungodly terrible passwords. And helping users choose marginally better passwords for a negligible cost is a good thing, in my opinion. Of course, it is not a silver bullet that magically solves the problem of credential storage and generation.



    If possible, always use a password manager, let it generate long, high-entropy passwords and store them for you in a safe manner.



    If this is not possible (e.g. for OS logins), I recommend either using Diceware or creating a long, nonsensical sentence, such as TheGreenLightFromOurEyesShinesThroughTheMirrorOfTime.. Just ensure that such a sentence isn't taken from a book or movie.






    share|improve this answer



























    • You may as well just print a proper randomly-generated 16-character string on the card for them to use as their password.

      – OrangeDog
      14 mins ago











    • @OrangeDog No, because then you have to trust the card designer with your (full) password.

      – Jon Bentley
      7 mins ago











    • @OrangeDog not only that but anybody who sees the card would have your password!

      – Digital Chris
      1 min ago















    12
















    Full disclosure: I work for a company, which distributes such cards. This answer however is my own personal opinion of them.





    The idea of these cards is that some users are just really bad at remembering passwords or pass phrases. The naïve approach would be to tell users "Just get better at remembering passwords", but experience has shown that such advice is counter-productive with some users.



    Their memory seems to be hard-wired to only recall simple words, which probably have something to do with their work. So somebody working in a car factory may remember a word such as Engine.



    Engine, of course, is a terrible password - both in length and entropy. So the "Kryptonizer" or similarly named cards try to add both of those.



    Length is added by the prefix, 4uR=? in this case. It immediately increases the password length by 5 characters, bumping a 6 character password up to an 11 character password. Not perfect, but an improvement.



    Entropy is added by substituting each character with a randomly chosen character. Not exactly a 1:1 substitution, but close enough. Since each card is unique, one can't build a pre-made rule on how to mangle each dictionary phrase.



    In this example, Engine would turn into 4uR=?1YFFY1. Is this a good password? Probably not great, but certainly a lot better than Engine.



    Problems with this scheme



    Of course, it's not a perfect system. A good passphrase can't be replaced by a little paper card. Since three input characters map to one output character, the resulting password loses entropy instead of gaining it. The net entropy gain is that attackers can't use dictionary attacks as easily anymore. In order to do that, they would need to gain access to the mapping or perform an exhaustive search. If an attacker knows that such a card was used, they can use this to their advantage to speed up an exhaustive search.



    Furthermore, users are expected to keep their card around, and many will probably leave it on their desk, under their keyboard or in similar bad locations. If they lose their card, they will probably lose their password too. They will need a new card, and change their password as well, which is not that good for usability.



    Summary



    So, is this a good system? Ultimately, I would say you have to judge it in the context of what it is designed to do. It's an aid for a specific group of users, who would otherwise use ungodly terrible passwords. And helping users choose marginally better passwords for a negligible cost is a good thing, in my opinion. Of course, it is not a silver bullet that magically solves the problem of credential storage and generation.



    If possible, always use a password manager, let it generate long, high-entropy passwords and store them for you in a safe manner.



    If this is not possible (e.g. for OS logins), I recommend either using Diceware or creating a long, nonsensical sentence, such as TheGreenLightFromOurEyesShinesThroughTheMirrorOfTime.. Just ensure that such a sentence isn't taken from a book or movie.






    share|improve this answer



























    • You may as well just print a proper randomly-generated 16-character string on the card for them to use as their password.

      – OrangeDog
      14 mins ago











    • @OrangeDog No, because then you have to trust the card designer with your (full) password.

      – Jon Bentley
      7 mins ago











    • @OrangeDog not only that but anybody who sees the card would have your password!

      – Digital Chris
      1 min ago













    12














    12










    12










    Full disclosure: I work for a company, which distributes such cards. This answer however is my own personal opinion of them.





    The idea of these cards is that some users are just really bad at remembering passwords or pass phrases. The naïve approach would be to tell users "Just get better at remembering passwords", but experience has shown that such advice is counter-productive with some users.



    Their memory seems to be hard-wired to only recall simple words, which probably have something to do with their work. So somebody working in a car factory may remember a word such as Engine.



    Engine, of course, is a terrible password - both in length and entropy. So the "Kryptonizer" or similarly named cards try to add both of those.



    Length is added by the prefix, 4uR=? in this case. It immediately increases the password length by 5 characters, bumping a 6 character password up to an 11 character password. Not perfect, but an improvement.



    Entropy is added by substituting each character with a randomly chosen character. Not exactly a 1:1 substitution, but close enough. Since each card is unique, one can't build a pre-made rule on how to mangle each dictionary phrase.



    In this example, Engine would turn into 4uR=?1YFFY1. Is this a good password? Probably not great, but certainly a lot better than Engine.



    Problems with this scheme



    Of course, it's not a perfect system. A good passphrase can't be replaced by a little paper card. Since three input characters map to one output character, the resulting password loses entropy instead of gaining it. The net entropy gain is that attackers can't use dictionary attacks as easily anymore. In order to do that, they would need to gain access to the mapping or perform an exhaustive search. If an attacker knows that such a card was used, they can use this to their advantage to speed up an exhaustive search.



    Furthermore, users are expected to keep their card around, and many will probably leave it on their desk, under their keyboard or in similar bad locations. If they lose their card, they will probably lose their password too. They will need a new card, and change their password as well, which is not that good for usability.



    Summary



    So, is this a good system? Ultimately, I would say you have to judge it in the context of what it is designed to do. It's an aid for a specific group of users, who would otherwise use ungodly terrible passwords. And helping users choose marginally better passwords for a negligible cost is a good thing, in my opinion. Of course, it is not a silver bullet that magically solves the problem of credential storage and generation.



    If possible, always use a password manager, let it generate long, high-entropy passwords and store them for you in a safe manner.



    If this is not possible (e.g. for OS logins), I recommend either using Diceware or creating a long, nonsensical sentence, such as TheGreenLightFromOurEyesShinesThroughTheMirrorOfTime.. Just ensure that such a sentence isn't taken from a book or movie.






    share|improve this answer
















    Full disclosure: I work for a company, which distributes such cards. This answer however is my own personal opinion of them.





    The idea of these cards is that some users are just really bad at remembering passwords or pass phrases. The naïve approach would be to tell users "Just get better at remembering passwords", but experience has shown that such advice is counter-productive with some users.



    Their memory seems to be hard-wired to only recall simple words, which probably have something to do with their work. So somebody working in a car factory may remember a word such as Engine.



    Engine, of course, is a terrible password - both in length and entropy. So the "Kryptonizer" or similarly named cards try to add both of those.



    Length is added by the prefix, 4uR=? in this case. It immediately increases the password length by 5 characters, bumping a 6 character password up to an 11 character password. Not perfect, but an improvement.



    Entropy is added by substituting each character with a randomly chosen character. Not exactly a 1:1 substitution, but close enough. Since each card is unique, one can't build a pre-made rule on how to mangle each dictionary phrase.



    In this example, Engine would turn into 4uR=?1YFFY1. Is this a good password? Probably not great, but certainly a lot better than Engine.



    Problems with this scheme



    Of course, it's not a perfect system. A good passphrase can't be replaced by a little paper card. Since three input characters map to one output character, the resulting password loses entropy instead of gaining it. The net entropy gain is that attackers can't use dictionary attacks as easily anymore. In order to do that, they would need to gain access to the mapping or perform an exhaustive search. If an attacker knows that such a card was used, they can use this to their advantage to speed up an exhaustive search.



    Furthermore, users are expected to keep their card around, and many will probably leave it on their desk, under their keyboard or in similar bad locations. If they lose their card, they will probably lose their password too. They will need a new card, and change their password as well, which is not that good for usability.



    Summary



    So, is this a good system? Ultimately, I would say you have to judge it in the context of what it is designed to do. It's an aid for a specific group of users, who would otherwise use ungodly terrible passwords. And helping users choose marginally better passwords for a negligible cost is a good thing, in my opinion. Of course, it is not a silver bullet that magically solves the problem of credential storage and generation.



    If possible, always use a password manager, let it generate long, high-entropy passwords and store them for you in a safe manner.



    If this is not possible (e.g. for OS logins), I recommend either using Diceware or creating a long, nonsensical sentence, such as TheGreenLightFromOurEyesShinesThroughTheMirrorOfTime.. Just ensure that such a sentence isn't taken from a book or movie.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 8 hours ago

























    answered 9 hours ago









    MechMK1MechMK1

    7,1473 gold badges25 silver badges47 bronze badges




    7,1473 gold badges25 silver badges47 bronze badges















    • You may as well just print a proper randomly-generated 16-character string on the card for them to use as their password.

      – OrangeDog
      14 mins ago











    • @OrangeDog No, because then you have to trust the card designer with your (full) password.

      – Jon Bentley
      7 mins ago











    • @OrangeDog not only that but anybody who sees the card would have your password!

      – Digital Chris
      1 min ago

















    • You may as well just print a proper randomly-generated 16-character string on the card for them to use as their password.

      – OrangeDog
      14 mins ago











    • @OrangeDog No, because then you have to trust the card designer with your (full) password.

      – Jon Bentley
      7 mins ago











    • @OrangeDog not only that but anybody who sees the card would have your password!

      – Digital Chris
      1 min ago
















    You may as well just print a proper randomly-generated 16-character string on the card for them to use as their password.

    – OrangeDog
    14 mins ago





    You may as well just print a proper randomly-generated 16-character string on the card for them to use as their password.

    – OrangeDog
    14 mins ago













    @OrangeDog No, because then you have to trust the card designer with your (full) password.

    – Jon Bentley
    7 mins ago





    @OrangeDog No, because then you have to trust the card designer with your (full) password.

    – Jon Bentley
    7 mins ago













    @OrangeDog not only that but anybody who sees the card would have your password!

    – Digital Chris
    1 min ago





    @OrangeDog not only that but anybody who sees the card would have your password!

    – Digital Chris
    1 min ago













    5















    It's always depends on what you compare it with! What is the realistic alternative, that users would actually use, to using this card?



    Clearly, 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31 is a much better password than HELLOWORLD. If you are giving this card to a non-techie whos not going to pick good passwords or use a password manager anyway, then it's an improvement.



    On the other hand, using this system is much worse than just picking a random 16 letter password that you'll never remember and storing it in your password manager. An attacker who knows what letters there are on the card (e.g. by looking at leaked passwords from the same user) could easily crack it - suddenly it is only 40 bits of entropy!



    So is this a good idea for people who might use a password manager? No, absolutely not. For your grandpa? Maybe! Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.






    share|improve this answer





























      5















      It's always depends on what you compare it with! What is the realistic alternative, that users would actually use, to using this card?



      Clearly, 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31 is a much better password than HELLOWORLD. If you are giving this card to a non-techie whos not going to pick good passwords or use a password manager anyway, then it's an improvement.



      On the other hand, using this system is much worse than just picking a random 16 letter password that you'll never remember and storing it in your password manager. An attacker who knows what letters there are on the card (e.g. by looking at leaked passwords from the same user) could easily crack it - suddenly it is only 40 bits of entropy!



      So is this a good idea for people who might use a password manager? No, absolutely not. For your grandpa? Maybe! Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.






      share|improve this answer



























        5














        5










        5









        It's always depends on what you compare it with! What is the realistic alternative, that users would actually use, to using this card?



        Clearly, 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31 is a much better password than HELLOWORLD. If you are giving this card to a non-techie whos not going to pick good passwords or use a password manager anyway, then it's an improvement.



        On the other hand, using this system is much worse than just picking a random 16 letter password that you'll never remember and storing it in your password manager. An attacker who knows what letters there are on the card (e.g. by looking at leaked passwords from the same user) could easily crack it - suddenly it is only 40 bits of entropy!



        So is this a good idea for people who might use a password manager? No, absolutely not. For your grandpa? Maybe! Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.






        share|improve this answer













        It's always depends on what you compare it with! What is the realistic alternative, that users would actually use, to using this card?



        Clearly, 4uR=?F133Y9Yi31 is a much better password than HELLOWORLD. If you are giving this card to a non-techie whos not going to pick good passwords or use a password manager anyway, then it's an improvement.



        On the other hand, using this system is much worse than just picking a random 16 letter password that you'll never remember and storing it in your password manager. An attacker who knows what letters there are on the card (e.g. by looking at leaked passwords from the same user) could easily crack it - suddenly it is only 40 bits of entropy!



        So is this a good idea for people who might use a password manager? No, absolutely not. For your grandpa? Maybe! Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 8 hours ago









        AndersAnders

        51.6k22 gold badges147 silver badges173 bronze badges




        51.6k22 gold badges147 silver badges173 bronze badges























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