The seven story archetypes. Are they truly all of them?Are the following passages examples of tense change? Are they allowed in fiction writing?How political can an author's note be, would the following fly?Story development: Multiple characters premisesWriting a non-lucid dreamInvesting in the 'wrong' character, is it a problem with the story?How do I handle a backstory big enough to be a story of its own?How could a paragon character be an antagonist?Is it a bad habit to cause too many deep permanent changes in the status quo of a story that envisions sequels?Prepare for more after the “ending”?What are the points to remember when the pet is the narrator and is narrating the story of its owner?
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The seven story archetypes. Are they truly all of them?
Are the following passages examples of tense change? Are they allowed in fiction writing?How political can an author's note be, would the following fly?Story development: Multiple characters premisesWriting a non-lucid dreamInvesting in the 'wrong' character, is it a problem with the story?How do I handle a backstory big enough to be a story of its own?How could a paragon character be an antagonist?Is it a bad habit to cause too many deep permanent changes in the status quo of a story that envisions sequels?Prepare for more after the “ending”?What are the points to remember when the pet is the narrator and is narrating the story of its owner?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
The seven archetypes are as follows:
Overcoming the Monster.
Rags to Riches.
The Quest.
Voyage and Return.
Comedy.
Tragedy.
Rebirth.
But surely, there are more? For example, riches to rags? That is one, right? Or would that go into another one, like rebirth, tragedy or even overcoming the monster, the monster being poverty?
What I'm asking is: Are the seven archetypes all of them, or simply the most common, fundamental ones?
plot narrative archetypes
asked 8 hours ago
A. KvåleA. Kvåle
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
add a comment |
The seven archetypes are as follows:
Overcoming the Monster.
Rags to Riches.
The Quest.
Voyage and Return.
Comedy.
Tragedy.
Rebirth.
But surely, there are more? For example, riches to rags? That is one, right? Or would that go into another one, like rebirth, tragedy or even overcoming the monster, the monster being poverty?
What I'm asking is: Are the seven archetypes all of them, or simply the most common, fundamental ones?
plot narrative archetypes
asked 8 hours ago
A. KvåleA. Kvåle
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
3
In theory, yes, but all of these are gigantic umbrellas and barely useful.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
@WeckarE. I see. Which story archetype would "Riches to rags" fit in? Perhaps multiple?
– A. Kvåle
8 hours ago
2
Depending on the exact implementation, I would generally say Tragedy.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
4
This list reads as if the creator was really struggling to come up with seven distinct archetypes, but wouldn't stop until he had seven. Overcoming the Monster is a Quest, Voyage and Return is a Quest, and Comedy/Tragedy are genres, not story archetypes. So really I only count three archetypes in that list. Who made this?
– PoorYorick
7 hours ago
The Six Main Arcs in Storytelling, as Identified by an A.I.
– wetcircuit
6 hours ago
add a comment |
The seven archetypes are as follows:
Overcoming the Monster.
Rags to Riches.
The Quest.
Voyage and Return.
Comedy.
Tragedy.
Rebirth.
But surely, there are more? For example, riches to rags? That is one, right? Or would that go into another one, like rebirth, tragedy or even overcoming the monster, the monster being poverty?
What I'm asking is: Are the seven archetypes all of them, or simply the most common, fundamental ones?
plot narrative archetypes
asked 8 hours ago
A. KvåleA. Kvåle
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
The seven archetypes are as follows:
Overcoming the Monster.
Rags to Riches.
The Quest.
Voyage and Return.
Comedy.
Tragedy.
Rebirth.
But surely, there are more? For example, riches to rags? That is one, right? Or would that go into another one, like rebirth, tragedy or even overcoming the monster, the monster being poverty?
What I'm asking is: Are the seven archetypes all of them, or simply the most common, fundamental ones?
plot narrative archetypes
plot narrative archetypes
asked 8 hours ago
A. KvåleA. Kvåle
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
A. KvåleA. Kvåle
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
A. KvåleA. Kvåle
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
A. KvåleA. Kvåle
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
A. KvåleA. Kvåle
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
1,52311 silver badges33 bronze badges
3
In theory, yes, but all of these are gigantic umbrellas and barely useful.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
@WeckarE. I see. Which story archetype would "Riches to rags" fit in? Perhaps multiple?
– A. Kvåle
8 hours ago
2
Depending on the exact implementation, I would generally say Tragedy.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
4
This list reads as if the creator was really struggling to come up with seven distinct archetypes, but wouldn't stop until he had seven. Overcoming the Monster is a Quest, Voyage and Return is a Quest, and Comedy/Tragedy are genres, not story archetypes. So really I only count three archetypes in that list. Who made this?
– PoorYorick
7 hours ago
The Six Main Arcs in Storytelling, as Identified by an A.I.
– wetcircuit
6 hours ago
add a comment |
3
In theory, yes, but all of these are gigantic umbrellas and barely useful.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
@WeckarE. I see. Which story archetype would "Riches to rags" fit in? Perhaps multiple?
– A. Kvåle
8 hours ago
2
Depending on the exact implementation, I would generally say Tragedy.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
4
This list reads as if the creator was really struggling to come up with seven distinct archetypes, but wouldn't stop until he had seven. Overcoming the Monster is a Quest, Voyage and Return is a Quest, and Comedy/Tragedy are genres, not story archetypes. So really I only count three archetypes in that list. Who made this?
– PoorYorick
7 hours ago
The Six Main Arcs in Storytelling, as Identified by an A.I.
– wetcircuit
6 hours ago
3
3
In theory, yes, but all of these are gigantic umbrellas and barely useful.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
In theory, yes, but all of these are gigantic umbrellas and barely useful.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
@WeckarE. I see. Which story archetype would "Riches to rags" fit in? Perhaps multiple?
– A. Kvåle
8 hours ago
@WeckarE. I see. Which story archetype would "Riches to rags" fit in? Perhaps multiple?
– A. Kvåle
8 hours ago
2
2
Depending on the exact implementation, I would generally say Tragedy.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
Depending on the exact implementation, I would generally say Tragedy.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
4
4
This list reads as if the creator was really struggling to come up with seven distinct archetypes, but wouldn't stop until he had seven. Overcoming the Monster is a Quest, Voyage and Return is a Quest, and Comedy/Tragedy are genres, not story archetypes. So really I only count three archetypes in that list. Who made this?
– PoorYorick
7 hours ago
This list reads as if the creator was really struggling to come up with seven distinct archetypes, but wouldn't stop until he had seven. Overcoming the Monster is a Quest, Voyage and Return is a Quest, and Comedy/Tragedy are genres, not story archetypes. So really I only count three archetypes in that list. Who made this?
– PoorYorick
7 hours ago
The Six Main Arcs in Storytelling, as Identified by an A.I.
– wetcircuit
6 hours ago
The Six Main Arcs in Storytelling, as Identified by an A.I.
– wetcircuit
6 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
No, they are not all of them. This is a common game, there are many books claiming there are 3 plots, 7 plots, 12 plots, 21 plots, 23 plots, whatever.
You could say there is only one plot: Character Has A Problem.
Overcoming the Monster. The monster is the problem.
Rags to Riches. Poverty, disrespect, deprivation is the problem.
The Quest. Finding the McGuffin is the problem.
Voyage and Return. The reason for the voyage is a problem; perhaps a craving for adventure, perhaps a mission.
Comedy. Still always a problem, just this time its funny.
Tragedy. A problem that doesn't get solved.
Rebirth. The problem is the Character, or the solution to the problem demands a major change in the Character.
Romance: The problem is winning the desired partner, or if already won, finding a way to be permanently together.
Non-romantic love: The problem is with forming, pursuing or repairing a non-romantic relationship (parent, child, friend, etc).
Each of these problems can be presented in various ways, with various twists, and the different supposed "archetypes" can meld into each other: From your original list, Overcoming the Monster could easily lead to a Quest, or Rebirth; as could Rags to Riches. Or Rags to Riches could lead to Tragedy; succeeding in the Rags to Riches may leave the MC isolated, vilified, and lonely.
Don't believe it! It may be useful to know how various archetypes or plots unfold, but my advice (after reading about a dozen books on plotting) is to stick to ONE archetype: Your character (or crew) has a problem.
Then something like the Three Act structure. The story starts in Act I, their normal world. The problem appears in Act I. In Act II they try various ways to solve it with varying levels of success. In Act III they try their last hope and either succeed or mostly succeed or they fail.
answered 7 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
+1. These 'archetypes' really do strike me as oversimplifications/umbrella categories. The story I'm writing currently could be characterised as 'Riches to Rags to Rebirth', but even merging two 'archetypes' doesn't capture any of the nuance.
– Arkenstein XII
7 hours ago
add a comment |
The archetypes are a descriptive framework created by scholars in order to describe stories. Someone had a theory, says every story fits into one of those archetypes. Any story you give them, they will fit it into one of those archetypes, even if it squeaks a little.
For my part, there are stories I struggle to fit into this framework. The Jungle Book, for example. (Kipling's work, not the travesty Disney made of it.) Or Hemingway's The Sun also Rises. I'm sure a scholar could explain to me how they do fit into one of those archetypes. For my part, I don't really see it.
Here's the thing though: as a writer, I don't care. Let the classifiers classify. Me - I write. And my story is not "something that fits some archetype" - it is an absolutely unique creation that is entirely my own. Like a child - sure, it's a mammal. It's a Homo sapiens. But all that is irrelevant - only thing that's relevant is that this is my child, and s/he smiles at me. And my child is entirely unique, right?
answered 7 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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active
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oldest
votes
No, they are not all of them. This is a common game, there are many books claiming there are 3 plots, 7 plots, 12 plots, 21 plots, 23 plots, whatever.
You could say there is only one plot: Character Has A Problem.
Overcoming the Monster. The monster is the problem.
Rags to Riches. Poverty, disrespect, deprivation is the problem.
The Quest. Finding the McGuffin is the problem.
Voyage and Return. The reason for the voyage is a problem; perhaps a craving for adventure, perhaps a mission.
Comedy. Still always a problem, just this time its funny.
Tragedy. A problem that doesn't get solved.
Rebirth. The problem is the Character, or the solution to the problem demands a major change in the Character.
Romance: The problem is winning the desired partner, or if already won, finding a way to be permanently together.
Non-romantic love: The problem is with forming, pursuing or repairing a non-romantic relationship (parent, child, friend, etc).
Each of these problems can be presented in various ways, with various twists, and the different supposed "archetypes" can meld into each other: From your original list, Overcoming the Monster could easily lead to a Quest, or Rebirth; as could Rags to Riches. Or Rags to Riches could lead to Tragedy; succeeding in the Rags to Riches may leave the MC isolated, vilified, and lonely.
Don't believe it! It may be useful to know how various archetypes or plots unfold, but my advice (after reading about a dozen books on plotting) is to stick to ONE archetype: Your character (or crew) has a problem.
Then something like the Three Act structure. The story starts in Act I, their normal world. The problem appears in Act I. In Act II they try various ways to solve it with varying levels of success. In Act III they try their last hope and either succeed or mostly succeed or they fail.
answered 7 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
+1. These 'archetypes' really do strike me as oversimplifications/umbrella categories. The story I'm writing currently could be characterised as 'Riches to Rags to Rebirth', but even merging two 'archetypes' doesn't capture any of the nuance.
– Arkenstein XII
7 hours ago
add a comment |
No, they are not all of them. This is a common game, there are many books claiming there are 3 plots, 7 plots, 12 plots, 21 plots, 23 plots, whatever.
You could say there is only one plot: Character Has A Problem.
Overcoming the Monster. The monster is the problem.
Rags to Riches. Poverty, disrespect, deprivation is the problem.
The Quest. Finding the McGuffin is the problem.
Voyage and Return. The reason for the voyage is a problem; perhaps a craving for adventure, perhaps a mission.
Comedy. Still always a problem, just this time its funny.
Tragedy. A problem that doesn't get solved.
Rebirth. The problem is the Character, or the solution to the problem demands a major change in the Character.
Romance: The problem is winning the desired partner, or if already won, finding a way to be permanently together.
Non-romantic love: The problem is with forming, pursuing or repairing a non-romantic relationship (parent, child, friend, etc).
Each of these problems can be presented in various ways, with various twists, and the different supposed "archetypes" can meld into each other: From your original list, Overcoming the Monster could easily lead to a Quest, or Rebirth; as could Rags to Riches. Or Rags to Riches could lead to Tragedy; succeeding in the Rags to Riches may leave the MC isolated, vilified, and lonely.
Don't believe it! It may be useful to know how various archetypes or plots unfold, but my advice (after reading about a dozen books on plotting) is to stick to ONE archetype: Your character (or crew) has a problem.
Then something like the Three Act structure. The story starts in Act I, their normal world. The problem appears in Act I. In Act II they try various ways to solve it with varying levels of success. In Act III they try their last hope and either succeed or mostly succeed or they fail.
answered 7 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
+1. These 'archetypes' really do strike me as oversimplifications/umbrella categories. The story I'm writing currently could be characterised as 'Riches to Rags to Rebirth', but even merging two 'archetypes' doesn't capture any of the nuance.
– Arkenstein XII
7 hours ago
add a comment |
No, they are not all of them. This is a common game, there are many books claiming there are 3 plots, 7 plots, 12 plots, 21 plots, 23 plots, whatever.
You could say there is only one plot: Character Has A Problem.
Overcoming the Monster. The monster is the problem.
Rags to Riches. Poverty, disrespect, deprivation is the problem.
The Quest. Finding the McGuffin is the problem.
Voyage and Return. The reason for the voyage is a problem; perhaps a craving for adventure, perhaps a mission.
Comedy. Still always a problem, just this time its funny.
Tragedy. A problem that doesn't get solved.
Rebirth. The problem is the Character, or the solution to the problem demands a major change in the Character.
Romance: The problem is winning the desired partner, or if already won, finding a way to be permanently together.
Non-romantic love: The problem is with forming, pursuing or repairing a non-romantic relationship (parent, child, friend, etc).
Each of these problems can be presented in various ways, with various twists, and the different supposed "archetypes" can meld into each other: From your original list, Overcoming the Monster could easily lead to a Quest, or Rebirth; as could Rags to Riches. Or Rags to Riches could lead to Tragedy; succeeding in the Rags to Riches may leave the MC isolated, vilified, and lonely.
Don't believe it! It may be useful to know how various archetypes or plots unfold, but my advice (after reading about a dozen books on plotting) is to stick to ONE archetype: Your character (or crew) has a problem.
Then something like the Three Act structure. The story starts in Act I, their normal world. The problem appears in Act I. In Act II they try various ways to solve it with varying levels of success. In Act III they try their last hope and either succeed or mostly succeed or they fail.
answered 7 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
No, they are not all of them. This is a common game, there are many books claiming there are 3 plots, 7 plots, 12 plots, 21 plots, 23 plots, whatever.
You could say there is only one plot: Character Has A Problem.
Overcoming the Monster. The monster is the problem.
Rags to Riches. Poverty, disrespect, deprivation is the problem.
The Quest. Finding the McGuffin is the problem.
Voyage and Return. The reason for the voyage is a problem; perhaps a craving for adventure, perhaps a mission.
Comedy. Still always a problem, just this time its funny.
Tragedy. A problem that doesn't get solved.
Rebirth. The problem is the Character, or the solution to the problem demands a major change in the Character.
Romance: The problem is winning the desired partner, or if already won, finding a way to be permanently together.
Non-romantic love: The problem is with forming, pursuing or repairing a non-romantic relationship (parent, child, friend, etc).
Each of these problems can be presented in various ways, with various twists, and the different supposed "archetypes" can meld into each other: From your original list, Overcoming the Monster could easily lead to a Quest, or Rebirth; as could Rags to Riches. Or Rags to Riches could lead to Tragedy; succeeding in the Rags to Riches may leave the MC isolated, vilified, and lonely.
Don't believe it! It may be useful to know how various archetypes or plots unfold, but my advice (after reading about a dozen books on plotting) is to stick to ONE archetype: Your character (or crew) has a problem.
Then something like the Three Act structure. The story starts in Act I, their normal world. The problem appears in Act I. In Act II they try various ways to solve it with varying levels of success. In Act III they try their last hope and either succeed or mostly succeed or they fail.
answered 7 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
69.2k7 gold badges90 silver badges227 bronze badges
+1. These 'archetypes' really do strike me as oversimplifications/umbrella categories. The story I'm writing currently could be characterised as 'Riches to Rags to Rebirth', but even merging two 'archetypes' doesn't capture any of the nuance.
– Arkenstein XII
7 hours ago
add a comment |
+1. These 'archetypes' really do strike me as oversimplifications/umbrella categories. The story I'm writing currently could be characterised as 'Riches to Rags to Rebirth', but even merging two 'archetypes' doesn't capture any of the nuance.
– Arkenstein XII
7 hours ago
+1. These 'archetypes' really do strike me as oversimplifications/umbrella categories. The story I'm writing currently could be characterised as 'Riches to Rags to Rebirth', but even merging two 'archetypes' doesn't capture any of the nuance.
– Arkenstein XII
7 hours ago
+1. These 'archetypes' really do strike me as oversimplifications/umbrella categories. The story I'm writing currently could be characterised as 'Riches to Rags to Rebirth', but even merging two 'archetypes' doesn't capture any of the nuance.
– Arkenstein XII
7 hours ago
add a comment |
The archetypes are a descriptive framework created by scholars in order to describe stories. Someone had a theory, says every story fits into one of those archetypes. Any story you give them, they will fit it into one of those archetypes, even if it squeaks a little.
For my part, there are stories I struggle to fit into this framework. The Jungle Book, for example. (Kipling's work, not the travesty Disney made of it.) Or Hemingway's The Sun also Rises. I'm sure a scholar could explain to me how they do fit into one of those archetypes. For my part, I don't really see it.
Here's the thing though: as a writer, I don't care. Let the classifiers classify. Me - I write. And my story is not "something that fits some archetype" - it is an absolutely unique creation that is entirely my own. Like a child - sure, it's a mammal. It's a Homo sapiens. But all that is irrelevant - only thing that's relevant is that this is my child, and s/he smiles at me. And my child is entirely unique, right?
answered 7 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
add a comment |
The archetypes are a descriptive framework created by scholars in order to describe stories. Someone had a theory, says every story fits into one of those archetypes. Any story you give them, they will fit it into one of those archetypes, even if it squeaks a little.
For my part, there are stories I struggle to fit into this framework. The Jungle Book, for example. (Kipling's work, not the travesty Disney made of it.) Or Hemingway's The Sun also Rises. I'm sure a scholar could explain to me how they do fit into one of those archetypes. For my part, I don't really see it.
Here's the thing though: as a writer, I don't care. Let the classifiers classify. Me - I write. And my story is not "something that fits some archetype" - it is an absolutely unique creation that is entirely my own. Like a child - sure, it's a mammal. It's a Homo sapiens. But all that is irrelevant - only thing that's relevant is that this is my child, and s/he smiles at me. And my child is entirely unique, right?
answered 7 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
add a comment |
The archetypes are a descriptive framework created by scholars in order to describe stories. Someone had a theory, says every story fits into one of those archetypes. Any story you give them, they will fit it into one of those archetypes, even if it squeaks a little.
For my part, there are stories I struggle to fit into this framework. The Jungle Book, for example. (Kipling's work, not the travesty Disney made of it.) Or Hemingway's The Sun also Rises. I'm sure a scholar could explain to me how they do fit into one of those archetypes. For my part, I don't really see it.
Here's the thing though: as a writer, I don't care. Let the classifiers classify. Me - I write. And my story is not "something that fits some archetype" - it is an absolutely unique creation that is entirely my own. Like a child - sure, it's a mammal. It's a Homo sapiens. But all that is irrelevant - only thing that's relevant is that this is my child, and s/he smiles at me. And my child is entirely unique, right?
answered 7 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
The archetypes are a descriptive framework created by scholars in order to describe stories. Someone had a theory, says every story fits into one of those archetypes. Any story you give them, they will fit it into one of those archetypes, even if it squeaks a little.
For my part, there are stories I struggle to fit into this framework. The Jungle Book, for example. (Kipling's work, not the travesty Disney made of it.) Or Hemingway's The Sun also Rises. I'm sure a scholar could explain to me how they do fit into one of those archetypes. For my part, I don't really see it.
Here's the thing though: as a writer, I don't care. Let the classifiers classify. Me - I write. And my story is not "something that fits some archetype" - it is an absolutely unique creation that is entirely my own. Like a child - sure, it's a mammal. It's a Homo sapiens. But all that is irrelevant - only thing that's relevant is that this is my child, and s/he smiles at me. And my child is entirely unique, right?
answered 7 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
42.3k6 gold badges128 silver badges231 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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3
In theory, yes, but all of these are gigantic umbrellas and barely useful.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
@WeckarE. I see. Which story archetype would "Riches to rags" fit in? Perhaps multiple?
– A. Kvåle
8 hours ago
2
Depending on the exact implementation, I would generally say Tragedy.
– Weckar E.
8 hours ago
4
This list reads as if the creator was really struggling to come up with seven distinct archetypes, but wouldn't stop until he had seven. Overcoming the Monster is a Quest, Voyage and Return is a Quest, and Comedy/Tragedy are genres, not story archetypes. So really I only count three archetypes in that list. Who made this?
– PoorYorick
7 hours ago
The Six Main Arcs in Storytelling, as Identified by an A.I.
– wetcircuit
6 hours ago