Constructive proof of existence of free algebras for infinitary equational theoriesIs there a notion of congruence relation for essentially algebraic structures?Survey of finite axiomatizability for relational theories?Looking for a uniform explanation of algebras with canonical generators.IBN for algebraic theoriesEquational theories determined by “identities without variables”Is it possible for a theorem to be constructive only in a non-constructive metatheory?Valid statement in submodel? (Consistency lemma in Cohen's CH book)Mal'cev “rational equivalence” and model theoryRelation between monads, operads and algebraic theories (Again)For which theories does ZFC without global choice prove the existence of a proper class monster model?
Constructive proof of existence of free algebras for infinitary equational theories
Is there a notion of congruence relation for essentially algebraic structures?Survey of finite axiomatizability for relational theories?Looking for a uniform explanation of algebras with canonical generators.IBN for algebraic theoriesEquational theories determined by “identities without variables”Is it possible for a theorem to be constructive only in a non-constructive metatheory?Valid statement in submodel? (Consistency lemma in Cohen's CH book)Mal'cev “rational equivalence” and model theoryRelation between monads, operads and algebraic theories (Again)For which theories does ZFC without global choice prove the existence of a proper class monster model?
$begingroup$
Is it constructively true that all (not necessarily finitary) equational theories $T = (Sigma, E)$ have an initial model?
The usual proof for finitary equational theories I know constructs first from the signature $Sigma$ the set $P$ of syntax trees/preterms. This set is by construction the initial model of the theory $(Sigma, emptyset)$, i.e. will usually not satisfy equations $E$. One then considers the congruence $R subseteq P times P$ generated by (all interpretations of) the equations in $E$, and proves that $Q = P / R$ is a model of $T$ and then that it is the initial one.
If $Sigma$ contains an operation symbol $f$ of non-finitary arity $A$ then I struggle with defining the operations on the quotient $Q$. The interpretation of $f$ for $Q$ should be a function $f_Q : Q^A rightarrow Q$, and should be defined in terms of the function $f_P : P^A rightarrow P$ on syntax trees. If $A$ was finite, then any given map $x : A rightarrow Q$ could be lifted along $P twoheadrightarrow Q$ to a map $x' : A rightarrow P$, and then $f_Q(x)$ could be defined as the residue class of $f_P(x')$ in $Q$. But if $A$ is not a choice object/set, then the proof is stuck here.
Is there a way to get around this issue without assuming choice, or is it maybe known that the existence of certain initial algebras implies some version of the axiom of choice?
lo.logic model-theory universal-algebra constructive-mathematics
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is it constructively true that all (not necessarily finitary) equational theories $T = (Sigma, E)$ have an initial model?
The usual proof for finitary equational theories I know constructs first from the signature $Sigma$ the set $P$ of syntax trees/preterms. This set is by construction the initial model of the theory $(Sigma, emptyset)$, i.e. will usually not satisfy equations $E$. One then considers the congruence $R subseteq P times P$ generated by (all interpretations of) the equations in $E$, and proves that $Q = P / R$ is a model of $T$ and then that it is the initial one.
If $Sigma$ contains an operation symbol $f$ of non-finitary arity $A$ then I struggle with defining the operations on the quotient $Q$. The interpretation of $f$ for $Q$ should be a function $f_Q : Q^A rightarrow Q$, and should be defined in terms of the function $f_P : P^A rightarrow P$ on syntax trees. If $A$ was finite, then any given map $x : A rightarrow Q$ could be lifted along $P twoheadrightarrow Q$ to a map $x' : A rightarrow P$, and then $f_Q(x)$ could be defined as the residue class of $f_P(x')$ in $Q$. But if $A$ is not a choice object/set, then the proof is stuck here.
Is there a way to get around this issue without assuming choice, or is it maybe known that the existence of certain initial algebras implies some version of the axiom of choice?
lo.logic model-theory universal-algebra constructive-mathematics
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The problem is that whether two words are equal under $E$ is undecidable. (I don't have an exact reference, but it should be a variant of the Post correspondence problem, or the undecidability of the word problem for groups.) So this may depend on the treatment of equality in your definition of initial model.
$endgroup$
– Matt F.
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@MattF.: actually, the bigger problem is how to avoid choice, decidability of equality does not seem to be relevant.
$endgroup$
– Andrej Bauer
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is it constructively true that all (not necessarily finitary) equational theories $T = (Sigma, E)$ have an initial model?
The usual proof for finitary equational theories I know constructs first from the signature $Sigma$ the set $P$ of syntax trees/preterms. This set is by construction the initial model of the theory $(Sigma, emptyset)$, i.e. will usually not satisfy equations $E$. One then considers the congruence $R subseteq P times P$ generated by (all interpretations of) the equations in $E$, and proves that $Q = P / R$ is a model of $T$ and then that it is the initial one.
If $Sigma$ contains an operation symbol $f$ of non-finitary arity $A$ then I struggle with defining the operations on the quotient $Q$. The interpretation of $f$ for $Q$ should be a function $f_Q : Q^A rightarrow Q$, and should be defined in terms of the function $f_P : P^A rightarrow P$ on syntax trees. If $A$ was finite, then any given map $x : A rightarrow Q$ could be lifted along $P twoheadrightarrow Q$ to a map $x' : A rightarrow P$, and then $f_Q(x)$ could be defined as the residue class of $f_P(x')$ in $Q$. But if $A$ is not a choice object/set, then the proof is stuck here.
Is there a way to get around this issue without assuming choice, or is it maybe known that the existence of certain initial algebras implies some version of the axiom of choice?
lo.logic model-theory universal-algebra constructive-mathematics
$endgroup$
Is it constructively true that all (not necessarily finitary) equational theories $T = (Sigma, E)$ have an initial model?
The usual proof for finitary equational theories I know constructs first from the signature $Sigma$ the set $P$ of syntax trees/preterms. This set is by construction the initial model of the theory $(Sigma, emptyset)$, i.e. will usually not satisfy equations $E$. One then considers the congruence $R subseteq P times P$ generated by (all interpretations of) the equations in $E$, and proves that $Q = P / R$ is a model of $T$ and then that it is the initial one.
If $Sigma$ contains an operation symbol $f$ of non-finitary arity $A$ then I struggle with defining the operations on the quotient $Q$. The interpretation of $f$ for $Q$ should be a function $f_Q : Q^A rightarrow Q$, and should be defined in terms of the function $f_P : P^A rightarrow P$ on syntax trees. If $A$ was finite, then any given map $x : A rightarrow Q$ could be lifted along $P twoheadrightarrow Q$ to a map $x' : A rightarrow P$, and then $f_Q(x)$ could be defined as the residue class of $f_P(x')$ in $Q$. But if $A$ is not a choice object/set, then the proof is stuck here.
Is there a way to get around this issue without assuming choice, or is it maybe known that the existence of certain initial algebras implies some version of the axiom of choice?
lo.logic model-theory universal-algebra constructive-mathematics
lo.logic model-theory universal-algebra constructive-mathematics
edited 7 hours ago
Matt F.
8,0371 gold badge20 silver badges50 bronze badges
8,0371 gold badge20 silver badges50 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Martin BidlingmaierMartin Bidlingmaier
1114 bronze badges
1114 bronze badges
$begingroup$
The problem is that whether two words are equal under $E$ is undecidable. (I don't have an exact reference, but it should be a variant of the Post correspondence problem, or the undecidability of the word problem for groups.) So this may depend on the treatment of equality in your definition of initial model.
$endgroup$
– Matt F.
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@MattF.: actually, the bigger problem is how to avoid choice, decidability of equality does not seem to be relevant.
$endgroup$
– Andrej Bauer
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The problem is that whether two words are equal under $E$ is undecidable. (I don't have an exact reference, but it should be a variant of the Post correspondence problem, or the undecidability of the word problem for groups.) So this may depend on the treatment of equality in your definition of initial model.
$endgroup$
– Matt F.
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@MattF.: actually, the bigger problem is how to avoid choice, decidability of equality does not seem to be relevant.
$endgroup$
– Andrej Bauer
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The problem is that whether two words are equal under $E$ is undecidable. (I don't have an exact reference, but it should be a variant of the Post correspondence problem, or the undecidability of the word problem for groups.) So this may depend on the treatment of equality in your definition of initial model.
$endgroup$
– Matt F.
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The problem is that whether two words are equal under $E$ is undecidable. (I don't have an exact reference, but it should be a variant of the Post correspondence problem, or the undecidability of the word problem for groups.) So this may depend on the treatment of equality in your definition of initial model.
$endgroup$
– Matt F.
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@MattF.: actually, the bigger problem is how to avoid choice, decidability of equality does not seem to be relevant.
$endgroup$
– Andrej Bauer
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MattF.: actually, the bigger problem is how to avoid choice, decidability of equality does not seem to be relevant.
$endgroup$
– Andrej Bauer
7 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It was proved by Andreas Blass in Words, free algebras, and coequalizers that free infinitary algebras are not constructible neither in topoi nor in ZF. It is easy to see that the existence of free algebras for all theories is equivalent to the existence of initial algebras of all theories.
Even though initial algebras do not exist in "the basic constructive mathematics", there are stronger theories in which they do exist and which still can be called constructive. For example, initial algebras can be constructed in homotopy type theory with recursive higher inductive types (see Lumsdaine, Shulman, Semantics of higher inductive types).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ah thanks for reminding me that this paper exists, it's very relevant! Regarding your remark on HoTT's higher inductive types, see my comment to Andrej Bauers reply.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Just a short addition: A weaker version of higher inductive types suffice, namely the quotient inductive types by Altenkirch and Kaposi.
$endgroup$
– Ingo Blechschmidt
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As was already pointed out by Valery Isaev, even in the presence of excluded middle initial algebras for equational theories need not exist. I would like to explain a bit what is needed from a constructive point of view.
Suppose $T = (Sigma, E)$ is an equational theory where $Sigma$ is a family $Sigma = (A_mathrmop)_mathrmop in I$ of sets $A_mathrmop$ indexed by a set $I$. We think of the elements of $I$ as the operation symbols, and $A_mathrmop$ as the arity of the operation symbol $mathrmop$. (Normally arities are natural numbers, but since we allow infinitary operations it is better for arities to be general sets.)
A $T$-algebra $C$ is given by a carrier set $|C|$ and, for each $mathrmop in A$, a map $mathrmop_C : |C|^A_mathrmop| to |C|$, such that the equations $E$ are satisfied.
A natural way of constructing the initial $T$-algebra is as follows:
Construct the set of well-founded trees $W_T$ whose branching types are $Sigma$, i.e., the initial algebra for the polynomial functor $X mapsto Sigma_mathrmop in I X^A_mathrmop$. This is also known as a $W$-type.
Quotient $W_T$ by the (interpretations of) equations $E$ to obtain a candidate for the initial algebra.
We cannot get either step for free, but in general the first step is the easier one, as it is well understood what it takes to have $W$-types in a constructive setting.
For the second step to go through, one needs to resolve the question posed by the OP, namely, how do we lift operations from the quotient $W_T/E$ to $W_T$? It looks like we need choice. Indeed, it suffices for all the arities $A_mathrmop$ to satisfy choice (to be choice sets, also called projective objects), but is that necessary? I do not know of any way of avoiding choice if one attempts to construct the initial algebra as a quotient of an inductively defined set.
Homotopy type theory offers an alternative. We avoid stratifying the construction of the initial algebra into an inductive construction followed by a quotient. Instead, we make a purely inductive construction: the initial $T$-algebra is the higher-inductive type $X$ with the following constructors:
- for each $mathrmop in I$, there is a point constructor $overlineop : X^A_mathrmop to X$;
- for each equation $ell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = r_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$ in $E$ there is a path constructor $e_i : prod (x_1, ldots, x_n : X),., overlineell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =_X overliner_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$,
- set-truncation: for all $x, y in X$ and all paths $p, q : x =_X y$ there is a path $tau_p,q : p =_x =_X y q$.
For further reference, look at the HoTT book chapter on the real numbers, where a variant of such a construction is used to present the Cauchy completion of rational numbers in an inductive fashion.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the thorough answer. Do you know whether the existence of initial algebras is equivalent to some version of choice?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Regarding HoTT's higher inductive types: As I understand their semantics is not completely resolved. HoTT has a model in every infinity topos, and HoTT's hsets correspond to 0-truncated objects. The subcategory of 0-truncated objects of an infinity topos is a 1-topos, and every 1-topos arises in this way. So the logic of HoTT's hsets is essentially just the internal logic of Grothendieck 1-toposes. But then if not every Grothendieck 1-topos has initial models (because choice might fail), HoTT shouldn't prove that they exist. So HoTT shouldn't include general HITs. Am I overlooking something?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah, so it appears that any Grothendieck topos relative to a topos satisfying AC has initial algebras of all equational theories (Rosebrugh, Abstract families of algebras), so this argument doesn't rule out models of arbitrary HITs in (Grothendieck) infinity toposes.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
It was proved by Andreas Blass in Words, free algebras, and coequalizers that free infinitary algebras are not constructible neither in topoi nor in ZF. It is easy to see that the existence of free algebras for all theories is equivalent to the existence of initial algebras of all theories.
Even though initial algebras do not exist in "the basic constructive mathematics", there are stronger theories in which they do exist and which still can be called constructive. For example, initial algebras can be constructed in homotopy type theory with recursive higher inductive types (see Lumsdaine, Shulman, Semantics of higher inductive types).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ah thanks for reminding me that this paper exists, it's very relevant! Regarding your remark on HoTT's higher inductive types, see my comment to Andrej Bauers reply.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Just a short addition: A weaker version of higher inductive types suffice, namely the quotient inductive types by Altenkirch and Kaposi.
$endgroup$
– Ingo Blechschmidt
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It was proved by Andreas Blass in Words, free algebras, and coequalizers that free infinitary algebras are not constructible neither in topoi nor in ZF. It is easy to see that the existence of free algebras for all theories is equivalent to the existence of initial algebras of all theories.
Even though initial algebras do not exist in "the basic constructive mathematics", there are stronger theories in which they do exist and which still can be called constructive. For example, initial algebras can be constructed in homotopy type theory with recursive higher inductive types (see Lumsdaine, Shulman, Semantics of higher inductive types).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ah thanks for reminding me that this paper exists, it's very relevant! Regarding your remark on HoTT's higher inductive types, see my comment to Andrej Bauers reply.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Just a short addition: A weaker version of higher inductive types suffice, namely the quotient inductive types by Altenkirch and Kaposi.
$endgroup$
– Ingo Blechschmidt
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It was proved by Andreas Blass in Words, free algebras, and coequalizers that free infinitary algebras are not constructible neither in topoi nor in ZF. It is easy to see that the existence of free algebras for all theories is equivalent to the existence of initial algebras of all theories.
Even though initial algebras do not exist in "the basic constructive mathematics", there are stronger theories in which they do exist and which still can be called constructive. For example, initial algebras can be constructed in homotopy type theory with recursive higher inductive types (see Lumsdaine, Shulman, Semantics of higher inductive types).
$endgroup$
It was proved by Andreas Blass in Words, free algebras, and coequalizers that free infinitary algebras are not constructible neither in topoi nor in ZF. It is easy to see that the existence of free algebras for all theories is equivalent to the existence of initial algebras of all theories.
Even though initial algebras do not exist in "the basic constructive mathematics", there are stronger theories in which they do exist and which still can be called constructive. For example, initial algebras can be constructed in homotopy type theory with recursive higher inductive types (see Lumsdaine, Shulman, Semantics of higher inductive types).
answered 7 hours ago
Valery IsaevValery Isaev
2,3691 gold badge10 silver badges24 bronze badges
2,3691 gold badge10 silver badges24 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Ah thanks for reminding me that this paper exists, it's very relevant! Regarding your remark on HoTT's higher inductive types, see my comment to Andrej Bauers reply.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Just a short addition: A weaker version of higher inductive types suffice, namely the quotient inductive types by Altenkirch and Kaposi.
$endgroup$
– Ingo Blechschmidt
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Ah thanks for reminding me that this paper exists, it's very relevant! Regarding your remark on HoTT's higher inductive types, see my comment to Andrej Bauers reply.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Just a short addition: A weaker version of higher inductive types suffice, namely the quotient inductive types by Altenkirch and Kaposi.
$endgroup$
– Ingo Blechschmidt
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah thanks for reminding me that this paper exists, it's very relevant! Regarding your remark on HoTT's higher inductive types, see my comment to Andrej Bauers reply.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah thanks for reminding me that this paper exists, it's very relevant! Regarding your remark on HoTT's higher inductive types, see my comment to Andrej Bauers reply.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Just a short addition: A weaker version of higher inductive types suffice, namely the quotient inductive types by Altenkirch and Kaposi.
$endgroup$
– Ingo Blechschmidt
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Just a short addition: A weaker version of higher inductive types suffice, namely the quotient inductive types by Altenkirch and Kaposi.
$endgroup$
– Ingo Blechschmidt
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As was already pointed out by Valery Isaev, even in the presence of excluded middle initial algebras for equational theories need not exist. I would like to explain a bit what is needed from a constructive point of view.
Suppose $T = (Sigma, E)$ is an equational theory where $Sigma$ is a family $Sigma = (A_mathrmop)_mathrmop in I$ of sets $A_mathrmop$ indexed by a set $I$. We think of the elements of $I$ as the operation symbols, and $A_mathrmop$ as the arity of the operation symbol $mathrmop$. (Normally arities are natural numbers, but since we allow infinitary operations it is better for arities to be general sets.)
A $T$-algebra $C$ is given by a carrier set $|C|$ and, for each $mathrmop in A$, a map $mathrmop_C : |C|^A_mathrmop| to |C|$, such that the equations $E$ are satisfied.
A natural way of constructing the initial $T$-algebra is as follows:
Construct the set of well-founded trees $W_T$ whose branching types are $Sigma$, i.e., the initial algebra for the polynomial functor $X mapsto Sigma_mathrmop in I X^A_mathrmop$. This is also known as a $W$-type.
Quotient $W_T$ by the (interpretations of) equations $E$ to obtain a candidate for the initial algebra.
We cannot get either step for free, but in general the first step is the easier one, as it is well understood what it takes to have $W$-types in a constructive setting.
For the second step to go through, one needs to resolve the question posed by the OP, namely, how do we lift operations from the quotient $W_T/E$ to $W_T$? It looks like we need choice. Indeed, it suffices for all the arities $A_mathrmop$ to satisfy choice (to be choice sets, also called projective objects), but is that necessary? I do not know of any way of avoiding choice if one attempts to construct the initial algebra as a quotient of an inductively defined set.
Homotopy type theory offers an alternative. We avoid stratifying the construction of the initial algebra into an inductive construction followed by a quotient. Instead, we make a purely inductive construction: the initial $T$-algebra is the higher-inductive type $X$ with the following constructors:
- for each $mathrmop in I$, there is a point constructor $overlineop : X^A_mathrmop to X$;
- for each equation $ell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = r_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$ in $E$ there is a path constructor $e_i : prod (x_1, ldots, x_n : X),., overlineell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =_X overliner_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$,
- set-truncation: for all $x, y in X$ and all paths $p, q : x =_X y$ there is a path $tau_p,q : p =_x =_X y q$.
For further reference, look at the HoTT book chapter on the real numbers, where a variant of such a construction is used to present the Cauchy completion of rational numbers in an inductive fashion.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the thorough answer. Do you know whether the existence of initial algebras is equivalent to some version of choice?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Regarding HoTT's higher inductive types: As I understand their semantics is not completely resolved. HoTT has a model in every infinity topos, and HoTT's hsets correspond to 0-truncated objects. The subcategory of 0-truncated objects of an infinity topos is a 1-topos, and every 1-topos arises in this way. So the logic of HoTT's hsets is essentially just the internal logic of Grothendieck 1-toposes. But then if not every Grothendieck 1-topos has initial models (because choice might fail), HoTT shouldn't prove that they exist. So HoTT shouldn't include general HITs. Am I overlooking something?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah, so it appears that any Grothendieck topos relative to a topos satisfying AC has initial algebras of all equational theories (Rosebrugh, Abstract families of algebras), so this argument doesn't rule out models of arbitrary HITs in (Grothendieck) infinity toposes.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As was already pointed out by Valery Isaev, even in the presence of excluded middle initial algebras for equational theories need not exist. I would like to explain a bit what is needed from a constructive point of view.
Suppose $T = (Sigma, E)$ is an equational theory where $Sigma$ is a family $Sigma = (A_mathrmop)_mathrmop in I$ of sets $A_mathrmop$ indexed by a set $I$. We think of the elements of $I$ as the operation symbols, and $A_mathrmop$ as the arity of the operation symbol $mathrmop$. (Normally arities are natural numbers, but since we allow infinitary operations it is better for arities to be general sets.)
A $T$-algebra $C$ is given by a carrier set $|C|$ and, for each $mathrmop in A$, a map $mathrmop_C : |C|^A_mathrmop| to |C|$, such that the equations $E$ are satisfied.
A natural way of constructing the initial $T$-algebra is as follows:
Construct the set of well-founded trees $W_T$ whose branching types are $Sigma$, i.e., the initial algebra for the polynomial functor $X mapsto Sigma_mathrmop in I X^A_mathrmop$. This is also known as a $W$-type.
Quotient $W_T$ by the (interpretations of) equations $E$ to obtain a candidate for the initial algebra.
We cannot get either step for free, but in general the first step is the easier one, as it is well understood what it takes to have $W$-types in a constructive setting.
For the second step to go through, one needs to resolve the question posed by the OP, namely, how do we lift operations from the quotient $W_T/E$ to $W_T$? It looks like we need choice. Indeed, it suffices for all the arities $A_mathrmop$ to satisfy choice (to be choice sets, also called projective objects), but is that necessary? I do not know of any way of avoiding choice if one attempts to construct the initial algebra as a quotient of an inductively defined set.
Homotopy type theory offers an alternative. We avoid stratifying the construction of the initial algebra into an inductive construction followed by a quotient. Instead, we make a purely inductive construction: the initial $T$-algebra is the higher-inductive type $X$ with the following constructors:
- for each $mathrmop in I$, there is a point constructor $overlineop : X^A_mathrmop to X$;
- for each equation $ell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = r_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$ in $E$ there is a path constructor $e_i : prod (x_1, ldots, x_n : X),., overlineell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =_X overliner_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$,
- set-truncation: for all $x, y in X$ and all paths $p, q : x =_X y$ there is a path $tau_p,q : p =_x =_X y q$.
For further reference, look at the HoTT book chapter on the real numbers, where a variant of such a construction is used to present the Cauchy completion of rational numbers in an inductive fashion.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the thorough answer. Do you know whether the existence of initial algebras is equivalent to some version of choice?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Regarding HoTT's higher inductive types: As I understand their semantics is not completely resolved. HoTT has a model in every infinity topos, and HoTT's hsets correspond to 0-truncated objects. The subcategory of 0-truncated objects of an infinity topos is a 1-topos, and every 1-topos arises in this way. So the logic of HoTT's hsets is essentially just the internal logic of Grothendieck 1-toposes. But then if not every Grothendieck 1-topos has initial models (because choice might fail), HoTT shouldn't prove that they exist. So HoTT shouldn't include general HITs. Am I overlooking something?
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– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
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Ah, so it appears that any Grothendieck topos relative to a topos satisfying AC has initial algebras of all equational theories (Rosebrugh, Abstract families of algebras), so this argument doesn't rule out models of arbitrary HITs in (Grothendieck) infinity toposes.
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– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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As was already pointed out by Valery Isaev, even in the presence of excluded middle initial algebras for equational theories need not exist. I would like to explain a bit what is needed from a constructive point of view.
Suppose $T = (Sigma, E)$ is an equational theory where $Sigma$ is a family $Sigma = (A_mathrmop)_mathrmop in I$ of sets $A_mathrmop$ indexed by a set $I$. We think of the elements of $I$ as the operation symbols, and $A_mathrmop$ as the arity of the operation symbol $mathrmop$. (Normally arities are natural numbers, but since we allow infinitary operations it is better for arities to be general sets.)
A $T$-algebra $C$ is given by a carrier set $|C|$ and, for each $mathrmop in A$, a map $mathrmop_C : |C|^A_mathrmop| to |C|$, such that the equations $E$ are satisfied.
A natural way of constructing the initial $T$-algebra is as follows:
Construct the set of well-founded trees $W_T$ whose branching types are $Sigma$, i.e., the initial algebra for the polynomial functor $X mapsto Sigma_mathrmop in I X^A_mathrmop$. This is also known as a $W$-type.
Quotient $W_T$ by the (interpretations of) equations $E$ to obtain a candidate for the initial algebra.
We cannot get either step for free, but in general the first step is the easier one, as it is well understood what it takes to have $W$-types in a constructive setting.
For the second step to go through, one needs to resolve the question posed by the OP, namely, how do we lift operations from the quotient $W_T/E$ to $W_T$? It looks like we need choice. Indeed, it suffices for all the arities $A_mathrmop$ to satisfy choice (to be choice sets, also called projective objects), but is that necessary? I do not know of any way of avoiding choice if one attempts to construct the initial algebra as a quotient of an inductively defined set.
Homotopy type theory offers an alternative. We avoid stratifying the construction of the initial algebra into an inductive construction followed by a quotient. Instead, we make a purely inductive construction: the initial $T$-algebra is the higher-inductive type $X$ with the following constructors:
- for each $mathrmop in I$, there is a point constructor $overlineop : X^A_mathrmop to X$;
- for each equation $ell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = r_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$ in $E$ there is a path constructor $e_i : prod (x_1, ldots, x_n : X),., overlineell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =_X overliner_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$,
- set-truncation: for all $x, y in X$ and all paths $p, q : x =_X y$ there is a path $tau_p,q : p =_x =_X y q$.
For further reference, look at the HoTT book chapter on the real numbers, where a variant of such a construction is used to present the Cauchy completion of rational numbers in an inductive fashion.
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As was already pointed out by Valery Isaev, even in the presence of excluded middle initial algebras for equational theories need not exist. I would like to explain a bit what is needed from a constructive point of view.
Suppose $T = (Sigma, E)$ is an equational theory where $Sigma$ is a family $Sigma = (A_mathrmop)_mathrmop in I$ of sets $A_mathrmop$ indexed by a set $I$. We think of the elements of $I$ as the operation symbols, and $A_mathrmop$ as the arity of the operation symbol $mathrmop$. (Normally arities are natural numbers, but since we allow infinitary operations it is better for arities to be general sets.)
A $T$-algebra $C$ is given by a carrier set $|C|$ and, for each $mathrmop in A$, a map $mathrmop_C : |C|^A_mathrmop| to |C|$, such that the equations $E$ are satisfied.
A natural way of constructing the initial $T$-algebra is as follows:
Construct the set of well-founded trees $W_T$ whose branching types are $Sigma$, i.e., the initial algebra for the polynomial functor $X mapsto Sigma_mathrmop in I X^A_mathrmop$. This is also known as a $W$-type.
Quotient $W_T$ by the (interpretations of) equations $E$ to obtain a candidate for the initial algebra.
We cannot get either step for free, but in general the first step is the easier one, as it is well understood what it takes to have $W$-types in a constructive setting.
For the second step to go through, one needs to resolve the question posed by the OP, namely, how do we lift operations from the quotient $W_T/E$ to $W_T$? It looks like we need choice. Indeed, it suffices for all the arities $A_mathrmop$ to satisfy choice (to be choice sets, also called projective objects), but is that necessary? I do not know of any way of avoiding choice if one attempts to construct the initial algebra as a quotient of an inductively defined set.
Homotopy type theory offers an alternative. We avoid stratifying the construction of the initial algebra into an inductive construction followed by a quotient. Instead, we make a purely inductive construction: the initial $T$-algebra is the higher-inductive type $X$ with the following constructors:
- for each $mathrmop in I$, there is a point constructor $overlineop : X^A_mathrmop to X$;
- for each equation $ell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = r_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$ in $E$ there is a path constructor $e_i : prod (x_1, ldots, x_n : X),., overlineell_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =_X overliner_i(x_1, ldots, x_n)$,
- set-truncation: for all $x, y in X$ and all paths $p, q : x =_X y$ there is a path $tau_p,q : p =_x =_X y q$.
For further reference, look at the HoTT book chapter on the real numbers, where a variant of such a construction is used to present the Cauchy completion of rational numbers in an inductive fashion.
answered 7 hours ago
Andrej BauerAndrej Bauer
32.6k4 gold badges83 silver badges175 bronze badges
32.6k4 gold badges83 silver badges175 bronze badges
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Thanks for the thorough answer. Do you know whether the existence of initial algebras is equivalent to some version of choice?
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– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Regarding HoTT's higher inductive types: As I understand their semantics is not completely resolved. HoTT has a model in every infinity topos, and HoTT's hsets correspond to 0-truncated objects. The subcategory of 0-truncated objects of an infinity topos is a 1-topos, and every 1-topos arises in this way. So the logic of HoTT's hsets is essentially just the internal logic of Grothendieck 1-toposes. But then if not every Grothendieck 1-topos has initial models (because choice might fail), HoTT shouldn't prove that they exist. So HoTT shouldn't include general HITs. Am I overlooking something?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah, so it appears that any Grothendieck topos relative to a topos satisfying AC has initial algebras of all equational theories (Rosebrugh, Abstract families of algebras), so this argument doesn't rule out models of arbitrary HITs in (Grothendieck) infinity toposes.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks for the thorough answer. Do you know whether the existence of initial algebras is equivalent to some version of choice?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Regarding HoTT's higher inductive types: As I understand their semantics is not completely resolved. HoTT has a model in every infinity topos, and HoTT's hsets correspond to 0-truncated objects. The subcategory of 0-truncated objects of an infinity topos is a 1-topos, and every 1-topos arises in this way. So the logic of HoTT's hsets is essentially just the internal logic of Grothendieck 1-toposes. But then if not every Grothendieck 1-topos has initial models (because choice might fail), HoTT shouldn't prove that they exist. So HoTT shouldn't include general HITs. Am I overlooking something?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah, so it appears that any Grothendieck topos relative to a topos satisfying AC has initial algebras of all equational theories (Rosebrugh, Abstract families of algebras), so this argument doesn't rule out models of arbitrary HITs in (Grothendieck) infinity toposes.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks for the thorough answer. Do you know whether the existence of initial algebras is equivalent to some version of choice?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks for the thorough answer. Do you know whether the existence of initial algebras is equivalent to some version of choice?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Regarding HoTT's higher inductive types: As I understand their semantics is not completely resolved. HoTT has a model in every infinity topos, and HoTT's hsets correspond to 0-truncated objects. The subcategory of 0-truncated objects of an infinity topos is a 1-topos, and every 1-topos arises in this way. So the logic of HoTT's hsets is essentially just the internal logic of Grothendieck 1-toposes. But then if not every Grothendieck 1-topos has initial models (because choice might fail), HoTT shouldn't prove that they exist. So HoTT shouldn't include general HITs. Am I overlooking something?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Regarding HoTT's higher inductive types: As I understand their semantics is not completely resolved. HoTT has a model in every infinity topos, and HoTT's hsets correspond to 0-truncated objects. The subcategory of 0-truncated objects of an infinity topos is a 1-topos, and every 1-topos arises in this way. So the logic of HoTT's hsets is essentially just the internal logic of Grothendieck 1-toposes. But then if not every Grothendieck 1-topos has initial models (because choice might fail), HoTT shouldn't prove that they exist. So HoTT shouldn't include general HITs. Am I overlooking something?
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah, so it appears that any Grothendieck topos relative to a topos satisfying AC has initial algebras of all equational theories (Rosebrugh, Abstract families of algebras), so this argument doesn't rule out models of arbitrary HITs in (Grothendieck) infinity toposes.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah, so it appears that any Grothendieck topos relative to a topos satisfying AC has initial algebras of all equational theories (Rosebrugh, Abstract families of algebras), so this argument doesn't rule out models of arbitrary HITs in (Grothendieck) infinity toposes.
$endgroup$
– Martin Bidlingmaier
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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The problem is that whether two words are equal under $E$ is undecidable. (I don't have an exact reference, but it should be a variant of the Post correspondence problem, or the undecidability of the word problem for groups.) So this may depend on the treatment of equality in your definition of initial model.
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– Matt F.
8 hours ago
2
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@MattF.: actually, the bigger problem is how to avoid choice, decidability of equality does not seem to be relevant.
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– Andrej Bauer
7 hours ago