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Can there be an UN resolution to remove a country from the UNSC?


What is the reason why none of the criticisms of Israel vis-à-vis the West Bank apply to China and Tibet?Why is it obligatory to say “republic” in “Czech Republic” and “Dominican Republic”?How will USA vote on 2015 “UN Resolution against the US embargo on Cuba”?What is the legal background for Russia's seat as a Permanent Member of UNSC?How did Russia retain the UNSC veto power of the Soviet Union?Sanctioning an entity vs an individual via UNSC Resolution 1267Can the UN General Assembly vote to remove veto rights from the big 5 in the UN Security Council?What can the U.S. do politically if China decided to stop exporting rare earth metals to the U.S.?Are there international laws that compel Mexico to prevent migrants from crossing the border and into the U.S.?Is the U.S. requiring Japan to share their semiconductor patents with the U.S. a case of trade bullying?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








5















Can there be an UN resolution to remove a country from the UNSC? I am wondering if we can vote a country like France or China out of the UNSC. Is there any rule that forbid such a resolution to be drafted, or is anything possible?










share|improve this question






















  • Did you not know about the history of the PRC's seat?

    – Obie 2.0
    3 hours ago

















5















Can there be an UN resolution to remove a country from the UNSC? I am wondering if we can vote a country like France or China out of the UNSC. Is there any rule that forbid such a resolution to be drafted, or is anything possible?










share|improve this question






















  • Did you not know about the history of the PRC's seat?

    – Obie 2.0
    3 hours ago













5












5








5








Can there be an UN resolution to remove a country from the UNSC? I am wondering if we can vote a country like France or China out of the UNSC. Is there any rule that forbid such a resolution to be drafted, or is anything possible?










share|improve this question














Can there be an UN resolution to remove a country from the UNSC? I am wondering if we can vote a country like France or China out of the UNSC. Is there any rule that forbid such a resolution to be drafted, or is anything possible?







international-relations international-law united-nations international






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share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









blackbirdblackbird

755212




755212












  • Did you not know about the history of the PRC's seat?

    – Obie 2.0
    3 hours ago

















  • Did you not know about the history of the PRC's seat?

    – Obie 2.0
    3 hours ago
















Did you not know about the history of the PRC's seat?

– Obie 2.0
3 hours ago





Did you not know about the history of the PRC's seat?

– Obie 2.0
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















7














The UN Charter does not provide for any way for a country to be removed from the UNSC. This is the case for both the permanent members (of which France and China are two, as well as the US, UK and Russia) and the non-permanent members (who serve two-year terms).



The only way that a non-permanent member can be removed mid-term, or a permanent member can be removed at all, is if an amendment is made to the UN Charter under Chapter XVIII. This would require a 2/3 vote of the General Assembly, and all permanent members of the Security Council would have to agree with it as well.



Effectively, what this means is that a permanent member of the UNSC cannot be removed from the UNSC without its consent.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    It might be easier to start a new UN without permanent members.

    – Martin Schröder
    7 hours ago











  • There's of course a trick to this, which is how Taiwan was removed.

    – Obie 2.0
    3 hours ago


















1














Yes



The first and most obvious method is based on the UN charter, Article VI, which says in its entirety:




A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the
Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the
Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the
Security Council.




Obviously, if expelled from the UN, a country could no longer be a member of the Security Council.



Now, normally members of the Security Council have effective veto power, but Article 27 lists exceptions:




Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made
by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes
of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter
VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall
abstain from voting.




The definition of disputes under Chapter VI is quite broad, so it seems likely that a country could bring a dispute to the UN focusing on a country's membership, and that country would have to abstain from voting on the issue. It could also be argued that the "recommendation of the Security Council," unlike "the affirmative vote of nine members," makes no mention of unanimity, and thus that a simple majority would suffice. Obviously this is subject to international jurisprudence, but since I doubt a case specifically dealing with this has come up, it's a viable interpretation.



Further, since this site deals with politics, not law, we must consider that in reality a country practically can be removed from the UN security council regardless of the legitimacy of the legal justifications, assuming the countries that oppose its membership and especially, the other members of the Security Council, want to remove it and are sufficiently economically or militarily powerful. If the legal methods were invalid or insufficient, they would come up with some justification to declare the nation's membership invalid in the first place.



The obvious historical precedent is Taiwan, the Republic of China, which the questioner may already be aware of. It used to be a permanent member of the UN Security Council, until China, the People's Republic of China, became wealthy enough, and its control over the mainland obvious enough, that it made more sense for them to be a member of the Security Council. Then the PRC was recognized as the legitimate government of China, and they received Taiwan's seat on the Security Council, which they retain to this day. This was the General Assembly Resolution 2758. Not only did Taiwan lose its seat on the Security Council, but its UN membership generally. While this transition was undoubtedly made easier by Taiwan's claims to be the government of all of China, which clearly were not practically true, I think an equivalent form of reasoning could be used for any other country.



For instance, the General Assembly might decide that their membership is a priori invalid due to not being a "peace-loving state," a justification that could theoretically be applied to any country, or due to not actually being a legitimate nation at all.






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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    7














    The UN Charter does not provide for any way for a country to be removed from the UNSC. This is the case for both the permanent members (of which France and China are two, as well as the US, UK and Russia) and the non-permanent members (who serve two-year terms).



    The only way that a non-permanent member can be removed mid-term, or a permanent member can be removed at all, is if an amendment is made to the UN Charter under Chapter XVIII. This would require a 2/3 vote of the General Assembly, and all permanent members of the Security Council would have to agree with it as well.



    Effectively, what this means is that a permanent member of the UNSC cannot be removed from the UNSC without its consent.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 1





      It might be easier to start a new UN without permanent members.

      – Martin Schröder
      7 hours ago











    • There's of course a trick to this, which is how Taiwan was removed.

      – Obie 2.0
      3 hours ago















    7














    The UN Charter does not provide for any way for a country to be removed from the UNSC. This is the case for both the permanent members (of which France and China are two, as well as the US, UK and Russia) and the non-permanent members (who serve two-year terms).



    The only way that a non-permanent member can be removed mid-term, or a permanent member can be removed at all, is if an amendment is made to the UN Charter under Chapter XVIII. This would require a 2/3 vote of the General Assembly, and all permanent members of the Security Council would have to agree with it as well.



    Effectively, what this means is that a permanent member of the UNSC cannot be removed from the UNSC without its consent.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 1





      It might be easier to start a new UN without permanent members.

      – Martin Schröder
      7 hours ago











    • There's of course a trick to this, which is how Taiwan was removed.

      – Obie 2.0
      3 hours ago













    7












    7








    7







    The UN Charter does not provide for any way for a country to be removed from the UNSC. This is the case for both the permanent members (of which France and China are two, as well as the US, UK and Russia) and the non-permanent members (who serve two-year terms).



    The only way that a non-permanent member can be removed mid-term, or a permanent member can be removed at all, is if an amendment is made to the UN Charter under Chapter XVIII. This would require a 2/3 vote of the General Assembly, and all permanent members of the Security Council would have to agree with it as well.



    Effectively, what this means is that a permanent member of the UNSC cannot be removed from the UNSC without its consent.






    share|improve this answer













    The UN Charter does not provide for any way for a country to be removed from the UNSC. This is the case for both the permanent members (of which France and China are two, as well as the US, UK and Russia) and the non-permanent members (who serve two-year terms).



    The only way that a non-permanent member can be removed mid-term, or a permanent member can be removed at all, is if an amendment is made to the UN Charter under Chapter XVIII. This would require a 2/3 vote of the General Assembly, and all permanent members of the Security Council would have to agree with it as well.



    Effectively, what this means is that a permanent member of the UNSC cannot be removed from the UNSC without its consent.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 8 hours ago









    Joe CJoe C

    3,818531




    3,818531







    • 1





      It might be easier to start a new UN without permanent members.

      – Martin Schröder
      7 hours ago











    • There's of course a trick to this, which is how Taiwan was removed.

      – Obie 2.0
      3 hours ago












    • 1





      It might be easier to start a new UN without permanent members.

      – Martin Schröder
      7 hours ago











    • There's of course a trick to this, which is how Taiwan was removed.

      – Obie 2.0
      3 hours ago







    1




    1





    It might be easier to start a new UN without permanent members.

    – Martin Schröder
    7 hours ago





    It might be easier to start a new UN without permanent members.

    – Martin Schröder
    7 hours ago













    There's of course a trick to this, which is how Taiwan was removed.

    – Obie 2.0
    3 hours ago





    There's of course a trick to this, which is how Taiwan was removed.

    – Obie 2.0
    3 hours ago













    1














    Yes



    The first and most obvious method is based on the UN charter, Article VI, which says in its entirety:




    A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the
    Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the
    Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the
    Security Council.




    Obviously, if expelled from the UN, a country could no longer be a member of the Security Council.



    Now, normally members of the Security Council have effective veto power, but Article 27 lists exceptions:




    Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made
    by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes
    of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter
    VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall
    abstain from voting.




    The definition of disputes under Chapter VI is quite broad, so it seems likely that a country could bring a dispute to the UN focusing on a country's membership, and that country would have to abstain from voting on the issue. It could also be argued that the "recommendation of the Security Council," unlike "the affirmative vote of nine members," makes no mention of unanimity, and thus that a simple majority would suffice. Obviously this is subject to international jurisprudence, but since I doubt a case specifically dealing with this has come up, it's a viable interpretation.



    Further, since this site deals with politics, not law, we must consider that in reality a country practically can be removed from the UN security council regardless of the legitimacy of the legal justifications, assuming the countries that oppose its membership and especially, the other members of the Security Council, want to remove it and are sufficiently economically or militarily powerful. If the legal methods were invalid or insufficient, they would come up with some justification to declare the nation's membership invalid in the first place.



    The obvious historical precedent is Taiwan, the Republic of China, which the questioner may already be aware of. It used to be a permanent member of the UN Security Council, until China, the People's Republic of China, became wealthy enough, and its control over the mainland obvious enough, that it made more sense for them to be a member of the Security Council. Then the PRC was recognized as the legitimate government of China, and they received Taiwan's seat on the Security Council, which they retain to this day. This was the General Assembly Resolution 2758. Not only did Taiwan lose its seat on the Security Council, but its UN membership generally. While this transition was undoubtedly made easier by Taiwan's claims to be the government of all of China, which clearly were not practically true, I think an equivalent form of reasoning could be used for any other country.



    For instance, the General Assembly might decide that their membership is a priori invalid due to not being a "peace-loving state," a justification that could theoretically be applied to any country, or due to not actually being a legitimate nation at all.






    share|improve this answer



























      1














      Yes



      The first and most obvious method is based on the UN charter, Article VI, which says in its entirety:




      A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the
      Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the
      Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the
      Security Council.




      Obviously, if expelled from the UN, a country could no longer be a member of the Security Council.



      Now, normally members of the Security Council have effective veto power, but Article 27 lists exceptions:




      Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made
      by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes
      of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter
      VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall
      abstain from voting.




      The definition of disputes under Chapter VI is quite broad, so it seems likely that a country could bring a dispute to the UN focusing on a country's membership, and that country would have to abstain from voting on the issue. It could also be argued that the "recommendation of the Security Council," unlike "the affirmative vote of nine members," makes no mention of unanimity, and thus that a simple majority would suffice. Obviously this is subject to international jurisprudence, but since I doubt a case specifically dealing with this has come up, it's a viable interpretation.



      Further, since this site deals with politics, not law, we must consider that in reality a country practically can be removed from the UN security council regardless of the legitimacy of the legal justifications, assuming the countries that oppose its membership and especially, the other members of the Security Council, want to remove it and are sufficiently economically or militarily powerful. If the legal methods were invalid or insufficient, they would come up with some justification to declare the nation's membership invalid in the first place.



      The obvious historical precedent is Taiwan, the Republic of China, which the questioner may already be aware of. It used to be a permanent member of the UN Security Council, until China, the People's Republic of China, became wealthy enough, and its control over the mainland obvious enough, that it made more sense for them to be a member of the Security Council. Then the PRC was recognized as the legitimate government of China, and they received Taiwan's seat on the Security Council, which they retain to this day. This was the General Assembly Resolution 2758. Not only did Taiwan lose its seat on the Security Council, but its UN membership generally. While this transition was undoubtedly made easier by Taiwan's claims to be the government of all of China, which clearly were not practically true, I think an equivalent form of reasoning could be used for any other country.



      For instance, the General Assembly might decide that their membership is a priori invalid due to not being a "peace-loving state," a justification that could theoretically be applied to any country, or due to not actually being a legitimate nation at all.






      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1







        Yes



        The first and most obvious method is based on the UN charter, Article VI, which says in its entirety:




        A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the
        Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the
        Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the
        Security Council.




        Obviously, if expelled from the UN, a country could no longer be a member of the Security Council.



        Now, normally members of the Security Council have effective veto power, but Article 27 lists exceptions:




        Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made
        by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes
        of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter
        VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall
        abstain from voting.




        The definition of disputes under Chapter VI is quite broad, so it seems likely that a country could bring a dispute to the UN focusing on a country's membership, and that country would have to abstain from voting on the issue. It could also be argued that the "recommendation of the Security Council," unlike "the affirmative vote of nine members," makes no mention of unanimity, and thus that a simple majority would suffice. Obviously this is subject to international jurisprudence, but since I doubt a case specifically dealing with this has come up, it's a viable interpretation.



        Further, since this site deals with politics, not law, we must consider that in reality a country practically can be removed from the UN security council regardless of the legitimacy of the legal justifications, assuming the countries that oppose its membership and especially, the other members of the Security Council, want to remove it and are sufficiently economically or militarily powerful. If the legal methods were invalid or insufficient, they would come up with some justification to declare the nation's membership invalid in the first place.



        The obvious historical precedent is Taiwan, the Republic of China, which the questioner may already be aware of. It used to be a permanent member of the UN Security Council, until China, the People's Republic of China, became wealthy enough, and its control over the mainland obvious enough, that it made more sense for them to be a member of the Security Council. Then the PRC was recognized as the legitimate government of China, and they received Taiwan's seat on the Security Council, which they retain to this day. This was the General Assembly Resolution 2758. Not only did Taiwan lose its seat on the Security Council, but its UN membership generally. While this transition was undoubtedly made easier by Taiwan's claims to be the government of all of China, which clearly were not practically true, I think an equivalent form of reasoning could be used for any other country.



        For instance, the General Assembly might decide that their membership is a priori invalid due to not being a "peace-loving state," a justification that could theoretically be applied to any country, or due to not actually being a legitimate nation at all.






        share|improve this answer













        Yes



        The first and most obvious method is based on the UN charter, Article VI, which says in its entirety:




        A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the
        Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the
        Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the
        Security Council.




        Obviously, if expelled from the UN, a country could no longer be a member of the Security Council.



        Now, normally members of the Security Council have effective veto power, but Article 27 lists exceptions:




        Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made
        by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes
        of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter
        VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall
        abstain from voting.




        The definition of disputes under Chapter VI is quite broad, so it seems likely that a country could bring a dispute to the UN focusing on a country's membership, and that country would have to abstain from voting on the issue. It could also be argued that the "recommendation of the Security Council," unlike "the affirmative vote of nine members," makes no mention of unanimity, and thus that a simple majority would suffice. Obviously this is subject to international jurisprudence, but since I doubt a case specifically dealing with this has come up, it's a viable interpretation.



        Further, since this site deals with politics, not law, we must consider that in reality a country practically can be removed from the UN security council regardless of the legitimacy of the legal justifications, assuming the countries that oppose its membership and especially, the other members of the Security Council, want to remove it and are sufficiently economically or militarily powerful. If the legal methods were invalid or insufficient, they would come up with some justification to declare the nation's membership invalid in the first place.



        The obvious historical precedent is Taiwan, the Republic of China, which the questioner may already be aware of. It used to be a permanent member of the UN Security Council, until China, the People's Republic of China, became wealthy enough, and its control over the mainland obvious enough, that it made more sense for them to be a member of the Security Council. Then the PRC was recognized as the legitimate government of China, and they received Taiwan's seat on the Security Council, which they retain to this day. This was the General Assembly Resolution 2758. Not only did Taiwan lose its seat on the Security Council, but its UN membership generally. While this transition was undoubtedly made easier by Taiwan's claims to be the government of all of China, which clearly were not practically true, I think an equivalent form of reasoning could be used for any other country.



        For instance, the General Assembly might decide that their membership is a priori invalid due to not being a "peace-loving state," a justification that could theoretically be applied to any country, or due to not actually being a legitimate nation at all.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 3 hours ago









        Obie 2.0Obie 2.0

        3,4141230




        3,4141230



























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