What is the effect of the Feeblemind spell on Ability Score Improvements?Multiclassing: How do Ability Score Improvements work?Does a Paladin 3/Fighter 1 get the level 4 ability score improvement?How do ability score improvements improve modifiers?Feeblemind consequences of the ability change (skill ranks and such)How can I deal with a DM and plot device targeting my character?Do ability score improvements apply to a druid's wild shape?What is the highest ability score possible?Is this homebrew Bardic College balanced?What ability score is most used?How do spell lists change if the party levels up without taking a long rest?

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What is the effect of the Feeblemind spell on Ability Score Improvements?

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What is the effect of the Feeblemind spell on Ability Score Improvements?


Multiclassing: How do Ability Score Improvements work?Does a Paladin 3/Fighter 1 get the level 4 ability score improvement?How do ability score improvements improve modifiers?Feeblemind consequences of the ability change (skill ranks and such)How can I deal with a DM and plot device targeting my character?Do ability score improvements apply to a druid's wild shape?What is the highest ability score possible?Is this homebrew Bardic College balanced?What ability score is most used?How do spell lists change if the party levels up without taking a long rest?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








14












$begingroup$


Our Bard had the Feeblemind spell cast on him and failed his save. The battle ended and we gained a level. Feeblemind states that:




On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




While under the effects of Feeblemind, would an ASI be permanently wasted if taken in Intelligence or Charisma?



We use milestone leveling, and it happens immediately once the DM says we've leveled.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$


















    14












    $begingroup$


    Our Bard had the Feeblemind spell cast on him and failed his save. The battle ended and we gained a level. Feeblemind states that:




    On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




    While under the effects of Feeblemind, would an ASI be permanently wasted if taken in Intelligence or Charisma?



    We use milestone leveling, and it happens immediately once the DM says we've leveled.










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      14












      14








      14





      $begingroup$


      Our Bard had the Feeblemind spell cast on him and failed his save. The battle ended and we gained a level. Feeblemind states that:




      On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




      While under the effects of Feeblemind, would an ASI be permanently wasted if taken in Intelligence or Charisma?



      We use milestone leveling, and it happens immediately once the DM says we've leveled.










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Our Bard had the Feeblemind spell cast on him and failed his save. The battle ended and we gained a level. Feeblemind states that:




      On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




      While under the effects of Feeblemind, would an ASI be permanently wasted if taken in Intelligence or Charisma?



      We use milestone leveling, and it happens immediately once the DM says we've leveled.







      dnd-5e spells ability-scores character-advancement






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      V2Blast

      29.1k5105177




      29.1k5105177










      asked 9 hours ago









      AlkAlk

      773112




      773112




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          20












          $begingroup$

          The DM shouldn't do this



          RAW seems to allow your interpretation.



          However, this is not how it's intended to work



          ASIs are class features, same as a Rogue's Sneak Attack or a Barbarian's Rage.



          There is no precedent for spells or abilities that are able to permanently deprive a player from a class feature. It would have a huge impact and would definitely deserve its own clause in the spell text, were it the case.



          It's a good way to alienate your players



          ASIs are powerful features and are expected by the players, since class features are usually guaranteed upon leveling. Denying them an ASI just because they failed a save might be enough to put them off the game (especially if they are the min-maxing type).






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$




















            11












            $begingroup$

            Unclear...



            ...but a fair DM would allow the normal score to be increased, although the poor Bard won't get the benefit until the Feeblemind effects have been lifted. Otherwise the DM would basically be causing the character to essentially lose a one-chance-only benefit.



            The Feeblemind spell is rather ambiguous as it has an instantaneous duration that causes a lasting effect, and yet the spell also talks about how the target can save or receive specific restorative magic to "end the spell".



            Slight contradiction in terms there!



            Yet the intention is clearly that once the save has been made or an appropriate spell received then the target's ability scores return to the value they had before. And a reasonable DM would allow this original ability score to be the one that is increased by the ASI.



            My interpretation...



            I think of it as the same way as an instantaneous damaging spell causes lasting HP damage, but does not (normally) cause your max HP to be reduced. Resting or healing restores HP back to your maximum.



            Think of your normal ability scores as the 'maximum' values. Feeblemind damages your Intelligence and Charisma, reducing them to 1, but has no effect on your maximum values. When the "spell ends" (or, rather, you make the save or receive restoration magic), that ability score damage is healed and your scores go back to their original 'maximum' values.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Isn't a straight ASI reduction to 1 very much like getting Max HP reduced? Your top limit has been changed.
              $endgroup$
              – NautArch
              8 hours ago






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              @NautArch. Welllll....kinda. Maybe a bad example, since max HP can be reduced as well, but even with max HP reduction you still need to know what your original score was because even that can get restored (kind of a "max max HP")! I just didn't want to introduce a new concept of "original score" to explain what I meant using a non-D&D term.
              $endgroup$
              – PJRZ
              8 hours ago











            • $begingroup$
              Your interpretation is pretty close to what I come up with every time I implement a tabletop system for a digital game or tool. It's a useful concept.
              $endgroup$
              – Ruther Rendommeleigh
              7 hours ago


















            2












            $begingroup$

            It is not wasted.



            Feeblemind is a spell effect. It sets the ability scores to 1 while it is in effect. However, the creature's original scores are not erased and the ASI is applied to these original scores. Take note that under "Specific beats General" the original ability scores are too general , under the spell's specific directions. You have two ability scores for INT and CHA during the effect of feeblemind, but the more specific wins. It is like a Barbarian wearing armor. He has two sources of AC, but can only choose one. In this case, you can't choose but there is a precedent for two values for one trait. When the spell ends, the original scores (modified or not by ASI) return.




            On a failed save, the creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




            This effect surpasses the ASI. Do not apply the ASI to the score of 1.




            At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



            The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




            When the spell ends, the effects cease to be. The INT and CHA scores return to their original values. If any ASI was applied to them, they take effect immediately.




            When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.




            However, your DM may rule you cannot apply the ASI to either score during the effects of the feeblemind. The wording "can" implies player agency. This DM sees no problem in allowing a player to postpone applying the ASI to a later date (they are losing the improvement during that time anyway).






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













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              3 Answers
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              active

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              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              20












              $begingroup$

              The DM shouldn't do this



              RAW seems to allow your interpretation.



              However, this is not how it's intended to work



              ASIs are class features, same as a Rogue's Sneak Attack or a Barbarian's Rage.



              There is no precedent for spells or abilities that are able to permanently deprive a player from a class feature. It would have a huge impact and would definitely deserve its own clause in the spell text, were it the case.



              It's a good way to alienate your players



              ASIs are powerful features and are expected by the players, since class features are usually guaranteed upon leveling. Denying them an ASI just because they failed a save might be enough to put them off the game (especially if they are the min-maxing type).






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                20












                $begingroup$

                The DM shouldn't do this



                RAW seems to allow your interpretation.



                However, this is not how it's intended to work



                ASIs are class features, same as a Rogue's Sneak Attack or a Barbarian's Rage.



                There is no precedent for spells or abilities that are able to permanently deprive a player from a class feature. It would have a huge impact and would definitely deserve its own clause in the spell text, were it the case.



                It's a good way to alienate your players



                ASIs are powerful features and are expected by the players, since class features are usually guaranteed upon leveling. Denying them an ASI just because they failed a save might be enough to put them off the game (especially if they are the min-maxing type).






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  20












                  20








                  20





                  $begingroup$

                  The DM shouldn't do this



                  RAW seems to allow your interpretation.



                  However, this is not how it's intended to work



                  ASIs are class features, same as a Rogue's Sneak Attack or a Barbarian's Rage.



                  There is no precedent for spells or abilities that are able to permanently deprive a player from a class feature. It would have a huge impact and would definitely deserve its own clause in the spell text, were it the case.



                  It's a good way to alienate your players



                  ASIs are powerful features and are expected by the players, since class features are usually guaranteed upon leveling. Denying them an ASI just because they failed a save might be enough to put them off the game (especially if they are the min-maxing type).






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  The DM shouldn't do this



                  RAW seems to allow your interpretation.



                  However, this is not how it's intended to work



                  ASIs are class features, same as a Rogue's Sneak Attack or a Barbarian's Rage.



                  There is no precedent for spells or abilities that are able to permanently deprive a player from a class feature. It would have a huge impact and would definitely deserve its own clause in the spell text, were it the case.



                  It's a good way to alienate your players



                  ASIs are powerful features and are expected by the players, since class features are usually guaranteed upon leveling. Denying them an ASI just because they failed a save might be enough to put them off the game (especially if they are the min-maxing type).







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 8 hours ago

























                  answered 8 hours ago









                  Pierre CathéPierre Cathé

                  796211




                  796211























                      11












                      $begingroup$

                      Unclear...



                      ...but a fair DM would allow the normal score to be increased, although the poor Bard won't get the benefit until the Feeblemind effects have been lifted. Otherwise the DM would basically be causing the character to essentially lose a one-chance-only benefit.



                      The Feeblemind spell is rather ambiguous as it has an instantaneous duration that causes a lasting effect, and yet the spell also talks about how the target can save or receive specific restorative magic to "end the spell".



                      Slight contradiction in terms there!



                      Yet the intention is clearly that once the save has been made or an appropriate spell received then the target's ability scores return to the value they had before. And a reasonable DM would allow this original ability score to be the one that is increased by the ASI.



                      My interpretation...



                      I think of it as the same way as an instantaneous damaging spell causes lasting HP damage, but does not (normally) cause your max HP to be reduced. Resting or healing restores HP back to your maximum.



                      Think of your normal ability scores as the 'maximum' values. Feeblemind damages your Intelligence and Charisma, reducing them to 1, but has no effect on your maximum values. When the "spell ends" (or, rather, you make the save or receive restoration magic), that ability score damage is healed and your scores go back to their original 'maximum' values.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$












                      • $begingroup$
                        Isn't a straight ASI reduction to 1 very much like getting Max HP reduced? Your top limit has been changed.
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        8 hours ago






                      • 3




                        $begingroup$
                        @NautArch. Welllll....kinda. Maybe a bad example, since max HP can be reduced as well, but even with max HP reduction you still need to know what your original score was because even that can get restored (kind of a "max max HP")! I just didn't want to introduce a new concept of "original score" to explain what I meant using a non-D&D term.
                        $endgroup$
                        – PJRZ
                        8 hours ago











                      • $begingroup$
                        Your interpretation is pretty close to what I come up with every time I implement a tabletop system for a digital game or tool. It's a useful concept.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                        7 hours ago















                      11












                      $begingroup$

                      Unclear...



                      ...but a fair DM would allow the normal score to be increased, although the poor Bard won't get the benefit until the Feeblemind effects have been lifted. Otherwise the DM would basically be causing the character to essentially lose a one-chance-only benefit.



                      The Feeblemind spell is rather ambiguous as it has an instantaneous duration that causes a lasting effect, and yet the spell also talks about how the target can save or receive specific restorative magic to "end the spell".



                      Slight contradiction in terms there!



                      Yet the intention is clearly that once the save has been made or an appropriate spell received then the target's ability scores return to the value they had before. And a reasonable DM would allow this original ability score to be the one that is increased by the ASI.



                      My interpretation...



                      I think of it as the same way as an instantaneous damaging spell causes lasting HP damage, but does not (normally) cause your max HP to be reduced. Resting or healing restores HP back to your maximum.



                      Think of your normal ability scores as the 'maximum' values. Feeblemind damages your Intelligence and Charisma, reducing them to 1, but has no effect on your maximum values. When the "spell ends" (or, rather, you make the save or receive restoration magic), that ability score damage is healed and your scores go back to their original 'maximum' values.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$












                      • $begingroup$
                        Isn't a straight ASI reduction to 1 very much like getting Max HP reduced? Your top limit has been changed.
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        8 hours ago






                      • 3




                        $begingroup$
                        @NautArch. Welllll....kinda. Maybe a bad example, since max HP can be reduced as well, but even with max HP reduction you still need to know what your original score was because even that can get restored (kind of a "max max HP")! I just didn't want to introduce a new concept of "original score" to explain what I meant using a non-D&D term.
                        $endgroup$
                        – PJRZ
                        8 hours ago











                      • $begingroup$
                        Your interpretation is pretty close to what I come up with every time I implement a tabletop system for a digital game or tool. It's a useful concept.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                        7 hours ago













                      11












                      11








                      11





                      $begingroup$

                      Unclear...



                      ...but a fair DM would allow the normal score to be increased, although the poor Bard won't get the benefit until the Feeblemind effects have been lifted. Otherwise the DM would basically be causing the character to essentially lose a one-chance-only benefit.



                      The Feeblemind spell is rather ambiguous as it has an instantaneous duration that causes a lasting effect, and yet the spell also talks about how the target can save or receive specific restorative magic to "end the spell".



                      Slight contradiction in terms there!



                      Yet the intention is clearly that once the save has been made or an appropriate spell received then the target's ability scores return to the value they had before. And a reasonable DM would allow this original ability score to be the one that is increased by the ASI.



                      My interpretation...



                      I think of it as the same way as an instantaneous damaging spell causes lasting HP damage, but does not (normally) cause your max HP to be reduced. Resting or healing restores HP back to your maximum.



                      Think of your normal ability scores as the 'maximum' values. Feeblemind damages your Intelligence and Charisma, reducing them to 1, but has no effect on your maximum values. When the "spell ends" (or, rather, you make the save or receive restoration magic), that ability score damage is healed and your scores go back to their original 'maximum' values.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      Unclear...



                      ...but a fair DM would allow the normal score to be increased, although the poor Bard won't get the benefit until the Feeblemind effects have been lifted. Otherwise the DM would basically be causing the character to essentially lose a one-chance-only benefit.



                      The Feeblemind spell is rather ambiguous as it has an instantaneous duration that causes a lasting effect, and yet the spell also talks about how the target can save or receive specific restorative magic to "end the spell".



                      Slight contradiction in terms there!



                      Yet the intention is clearly that once the save has been made or an appropriate spell received then the target's ability scores return to the value they had before. And a reasonable DM would allow this original ability score to be the one that is increased by the ASI.



                      My interpretation...



                      I think of it as the same way as an instantaneous damaging spell causes lasting HP damage, but does not (normally) cause your max HP to be reduced. Resting or healing restores HP back to your maximum.



                      Think of your normal ability scores as the 'maximum' values. Feeblemind damages your Intelligence and Charisma, reducing them to 1, but has no effect on your maximum values. When the "spell ends" (or, rather, you make the save or receive restoration magic), that ability score damage is healed and your scores go back to their original 'maximum' values.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 8 hours ago









                      PJRZPJRZ

                      13.6k14163




                      13.6k14163











                      • $begingroup$
                        Isn't a straight ASI reduction to 1 very much like getting Max HP reduced? Your top limit has been changed.
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        8 hours ago






                      • 3




                        $begingroup$
                        @NautArch. Welllll....kinda. Maybe a bad example, since max HP can be reduced as well, but even with max HP reduction you still need to know what your original score was because even that can get restored (kind of a "max max HP")! I just didn't want to introduce a new concept of "original score" to explain what I meant using a non-D&D term.
                        $endgroup$
                        – PJRZ
                        8 hours ago











                      • $begingroup$
                        Your interpretation is pretty close to what I come up with every time I implement a tabletop system for a digital game or tool. It's a useful concept.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                        7 hours ago
















                      • $begingroup$
                        Isn't a straight ASI reduction to 1 very much like getting Max HP reduced? Your top limit has been changed.
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        8 hours ago






                      • 3




                        $begingroup$
                        @NautArch. Welllll....kinda. Maybe a bad example, since max HP can be reduced as well, but even with max HP reduction you still need to know what your original score was because even that can get restored (kind of a "max max HP")! I just didn't want to introduce a new concept of "original score" to explain what I meant using a non-D&D term.
                        $endgroup$
                        – PJRZ
                        8 hours ago











                      • $begingroup$
                        Your interpretation is pretty close to what I come up with every time I implement a tabletop system for a digital game or tool. It's a useful concept.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                        7 hours ago















                      $begingroup$
                      Isn't a straight ASI reduction to 1 very much like getting Max HP reduced? Your top limit has been changed.
                      $endgroup$
                      – NautArch
                      8 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      Isn't a straight ASI reduction to 1 very much like getting Max HP reduced? Your top limit has been changed.
                      $endgroup$
                      – NautArch
                      8 hours ago




                      3




                      3




                      $begingroup$
                      @NautArch. Welllll....kinda. Maybe a bad example, since max HP can be reduced as well, but even with max HP reduction you still need to know what your original score was because even that can get restored (kind of a "max max HP")! I just didn't want to introduce a new concept of "original score" to explain what I meant using a non-D&D term.
                      $endgroup$
                      – PJRZ
                      8 hours ago





                      $begingroup$
                      @NautArch. Welllll....kinda. Maybe a bad example, since max HP can be reduced as well, but even with max HP reduction you still need to know what your original score was because even that can get restored (kind of a "max max HP")! I just didn't want to introduce a new concept of "original score" to explain what I meant using a non-D&D term.
                      $endgroup$
                      – PJRZ
                      8 hours ago













                      $begingroup$
                      Your interpretation is pretty close to what I come up with every time I implement a tabletop system for a digital game or tool. It's a useful concept.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                      7 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      Your interpretation is pretty close to what I come up with every time I implement a tabletop system for a digital game or tool. It's a useful concept.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                      7 hours ago











                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      It is not wasted.



                      Feeblemind is a spell effect. It sets the ability scores to 1 while it is in effect. However, the creature's original scores are not erased and the ASI is applied to these original scores. Take note that under "Specific beats General" the original ability scores are too general , under the spell's specific directions. You have two ability scores for INT and CHA during the effect of feeblemind, but the more specific wins. It is like a Barbarian wearing armor. He has two sources of AC, but can only choose one. In this case, you can't choose but there is a precedent for two values for one trait. When the spell ends, the original scores (modified or not by ASI) return.




                      On a failed save, the creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




                      This effect surpasses the ASI. Do not apply the ASI to the score of 1.




                      At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



                      The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




                      When the spell ends, the effects cease to be. The INT and CHA scores return to their original values. If any ASI was applied to them, they take effect immediately.




                      When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.




                      However, your DM may rule you cannot apply the ASI to either score during the effects of the feeblemind. The wording "can" implies player agency. This DM sees no problem in allowing a player to postpone applying the ASI to a later date (they are losing the improvement during that time anyway).






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$

















                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        It is not wasted.



                        Feeblemind is a spell effect. It sets the ability scores to 1 while it is in effect. However, the creature's original scores are not erased and the ASI is applied to these original scores. Take note that under "Specific beats General" the original ability scores are too general , under the spell's specific directions. You have two ability scores for INT and CHA during the effect of feeblemind, but the more specific wins. It is like a Barbarian wearing armor. He has two sources of AC, but can only choose one. In this case, you can't choose but there is a precedent for two values for one trait. When the spell ends, the original scores (modified or not by ASI) return.




                        On a failed save, the creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




                        This effect surpasses the ASI. Do not apply the ASI to the score of 1.




                        At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



                        The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




                        When the spell ends, the effects cease to be. The INT and CHA scores return to their original values. If any ASI was applied to them, they take effect immediately.




                        When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.




                        However, your DM may rule you cannot apply the ASI to either score during the effects of the feeblemind. The wording "can" implies player agency. This DM sees no problem in allowing a player to postpone applying the ASI to a later date (they are losing the improvement during that time anyway).






                        share|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$















                          2












                          2








                          2





                          $begingroup$

                          It is not wasted.



                          Feeblemind is a spell effect. It sets the ability scores to 1 while it is in effect. However, the creature's original scores are not erased and the ASI is applied to these original scores. Take note that under "Specific beats General" the original ability scores are too general , under the spell's specific directions. You have two ability scores for INT and CHA during the effect of feeblemind, but the more specific wins. It is like a Barbarian wearing armor. He has two sources of AC, but can only choose one. In this case, you can't choose but there is a precedent for two values for one trait. When the spell ends, the original scores (modified or not by ASI) return.




                          On a failed save, the creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




                          This effect surpasses the ASI. Do not apply the ASI to the score of 1.




                          At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



                          The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




                          When the spell ends, the effects cease to be. The INT and CHA scores return to their original values. If any ASI was applied to them, they take effect immediately.




                          When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.




                          However, your DM may rule you cannot apply the ASI to either score during the effects of the feeblemind. The wording "can" implies player agency. This DM sees no problem in allowing a player to postpone applying the ASI to a later date (they are losing the improvement during that time anyway).






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                          $endgroup$



                          It is not wasted.



                          Feeblemind is a spell effect. It sets the ability scores to 1 while it is in effect. However, the creature's original scores are not erased and the ASI is applied to these original scores. Take note that under "Specific beats General" the original ability scores are too general , under the spell's specific directions. You have two ability scores for INT and CHA during the effect of feeblemind, but the more specific wins. It is like a Barbarian wearing armor. He has two sources of AC, but can only choose one. In this case, you can't choose but there is a precedent for two values for one trait. When the spell ends, the original scores (modified or not by ASI) return.




                          On a failed save, the creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1.




                          This effect surpasses the ASI. Do not apply the ASI to the score of 1.




                          At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



                          The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




                          When the spell ends, the effects cease to be. The INT and CHA scores return to their original values. If any ASI was applied to them, they take effect immediately.




                          When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.




                          However, your DM may rule you cannot apply the ASI to either score during the effects of the feeblemind. The wording "can" implies player agency. This DM sees no problem in allowing a player to postpone applying the ASI to a later date (they are losing the improvement during that time anyway).







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                          answered 5 hours ago









                          MindwinMindwin

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