Showing that two combinatorial expressions are equalUniversal algorithm to estimate probability of drawing certain combination of coloured ballsUrn problem- distribution after all balls of x randomly selected colours are removedExpected value of distinct ballsProbability that $S$ of the sets are of a given type?Expected cost of algorithmExpected cost of algorithm based on hypergeometrical distributionWays to choose balls such that identical colours are adjacent.Probability of drawing three different colours without order

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Showing that two combinatorial expressions are equal


Universal algorithm to estimate probability of drawing certain combination of coloured ballsUrn problem- distribution after all balls of x randomly selected colours are removedExpected value of distinct ballsProbability that $S$ of the sets are of a given type?Expected cost of algorithmExpected cost of algorithm based on hypergeometrical distributionWays to choose balls such that identical colours are adjacent.Probability of drawing three different colours without order






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty
margin-bottom:0;

.everyonelovesstackoverflowposition:absolute;height:1px;width:1px;opacity:0;top:0;left:0;pointer-events:none;








7














$begingroup$


Is there an algebraic way of showing that $$sum_m=lceil p / brceil^c left(-1right)^m fracbinombcdot mpbinombcdot cp sum_k=m^ckcdot(-1)^k binomck binomkm = ccdotleft[1 - fracbinombcdot[c - 1]pbinombcdot cpright], $$



for all positive integers $b$, $c$, $p$?



Background:



A friend sent me a puzzle, which I've solved in two different ways, and I'd like to convince myself that they're algebraically the same.



Specifically, I was asked to consider the following problem: Suppose we have 80 balls in a bowl of 8 different colours, with 10 of each colour. If we draw 15 of them without replacement, how many colours would we expect to see?



Method 1:



We can find the expected number of colours as the weighted average of the possible number of colours, with the weights being the probabilities: $bark = sum_k k cdot P_k$. To do this we need to calculate the probabilities of seeing exactly $k$ colours for all possible values of $k$.



The probability of using just one colour is 0, as $15 > 10$.



The probability of using exactly two colours is $binom82 cdot fracbinom2015binom8015$.



The probability of using exactly at most three colours is $binom83 cdot fracbinom3015binom8015$.This probability however includes some cases where we've picked only two colours. To get the probability of picking exactly three colours, we need to subtract these cases, giving: $binom83 cdot left[fracbinom3015binom8015 - binom32fracbinom2015binom8015right]$. Using the inclusion-exclusion principle, the general probability of getting exactly $k$ colours is



$$
P_k = (-1)^k fracbinom8kbinom8015 sum_m=2^kleft(-1right)^m binomkmbinom10m15
$$



The expected number of colours can then be written as



$$ beginalign
bark &= sum_k=2^8kcdot(-1)^k fracbinom8kbinom8015 sum_m=2^kleft(-1right)^m binomkmbinom10m15\
&= sum_m=2^8 left(-1right)^m fracbinom10m15binom8015 sum_k=m^8kcdot(-1)^k binom8k binomkm.
endalign $$



Method 2



Alternatively, I reasoned that for any given colour, the probability of having that colour in the draw is $P_mathrmc = 1 - fracbinom7015binom8015$. If the colour is included, it contributes 1 to the total number of colours, and if not, it contributes 0. The expected value of the number of colours is then



$$
bark = sum_mathrmcolours P_mathrmc = 8 - 8 fracbinom7015binom8015
$$



I can calculate both of these numbers, and for this particular case, they are the same.



What I'd like is to understand why they should be equal in general -- there's nothing in the derivations which limits us to 8 colours, 10 balls of each colour and 15 picks.



It's been a while since I had any combinatorics, so I'm a bit stuck










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    You might want to look into generating functions, which can be used to tackle problems like this generally.
    $endgroup$
    – YiFan
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    typo alert? i think you meant to say 8 different colors (2nd paragraph of Background section).
    $endgroup$
    – antkam
    5 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Whoops, thanks for catching that!
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago

















7














$begingroup$


Is there an algebraic way of showing that $$sum_m=lceil p / brceil^c left(-1right)^m fracbinombcdot mpbinombcdot cp sum_k=m^ckcdot(-1)^k binomck binomkm = ccdotleft[1 - fracbinombcdot[c - 1]pbinombcdot cpright], $$



for all positive integers $b$, $c$, $p$?



Background:



A friend sent me a puzzle, which I've solved in two different ways, and I'd like to convince myself that they're algebraically the same.



Specifically, I was asked to consider the following problem: Suppose we have 80 balls in a bowl of 8 different colours, with 10 of each colour. If we draw 15 of them without replacement, how many colours would we expect to see?



Method 1:



We can find the expected number of colours as the weighted average of the possible number of colours, with the weights being the probabilities: $bark = sum_k k cdot P_k$. To do this we need to calculate the probabilities of seeing exactly $k$ colours for all possible values of $k$.



The probability of using just one colour is 0, as $15 > 10$.



The probability of using exactly two colours is $binom82 cdot fracbinom2015binom8015$.



The probability of using exactly at most three colours is $binom83 cdot fracbinom3015binom8015$.This probability however includes some cases where we've picked only two colours. To get the probability of picking exactly three colours, we need to subtract these cases, giving: $binom83 cdot left[fracbinom3015binom8015 - binom32fracbinom2015binom8015right]$. Using the inclusion-exclusion principle, the general probability of getting exactly $k$ colours is



$$
P_k = (-1)^k fracbinom8kbinom8015 sum_m=2^kleft(-1right)^m binomkmbinom10m15
$$



The expected number of colours can then be written as



$$ beginalign
bark &= sum_k=2^8kcdot(-1)^k fracbinom8kbinom8015 sum_m=2^kleft(-1right)^m binomkmbinom10m15\
&= sum_m=2^8 left(-1right)^m fracbinom10m15binom8015 sum_k=m^8kcdot(-1)^k binom8k binomkm.
endalign $$



Method 2



Alternatively, I reasoned that for any given colour, the probability of having that colour in the draw is $P_mathrmc = 1 - fracbinom7015binom8015$. If the colour is included, it contributes 1 to the total number of colours, and if not, it contributes 0. The expected value of the number of colours is then



$$
bark = sum_mathrmcolours P_mathrmc = 8 - 8 fracbinom7015binom8015
$$



I can calculate both of these numbers, and for this particular case, they are the same.



What I'd like is to understand why they should be equal in general -- there's nothing in the derivations which limits us to 8 colours, 10 balls of each colour and 15 picks.



It's been a while since I had any combinatorics, so I'm a bit stuck










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    You might want to look into generating functions, which can be used to tackle problems like this generally.
    $endgroup$
    – YiFan
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    typo alert? i think you meant to say 8 different colors (2nd paragraph of Background section).
    $endgroup$
    – antkam
    5 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Whoops, thanks for catching that!
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago













7












7








7


1



$begingroup$


Is there an algebraic way of showing that $$sum_m=lceil p / brceil^c left(-1right)^m fracbinombcdot mpbinombcdot cp sum_k=m^ckcdot(-1)^k binomck binomkm = ccdotleft[1 - fracbinombcdot[c - 1]pbinombcdot cpright], $$



for all positive integers $b$, $c$, $p$?



Background:



A friend sent me a puzzle, which I've solved in two different ways, and I'd like to convince myself that they're algebraically the same.



Specifically, I was asked to consider the following problem: Suppose we have 80 balls in a bowl of 8 different colours, with 10 of each colour. If we draw 15 of them without replacement, how many colours would we expect to see?



Method 1:



We can find the expected number of colours as the weighted average of the possible number of colours, with the weights being the probabilities: $bark = sum_k k cdot P_k$. To do this we need to calculate the probabilities of seeing exactly $k$ colours for all possible values of $k$.



The probability of using just one colour is 0, as $15 > 10$.



The probability of using exactly two colours is $binom82 cdot fracbinom2015binom8015$.



The probability of using exactly at most three colours is $binom83 cdot fracbinom3015binom8015$.This probability however includes some cases where we've picked only two colours. To get the probability of picking exactly three colours, we need to subtract these cases, giving: $binom83 cdot left[fracbinom3015binom8015 - binom32fracbinom2015binom8015right]$. Using the inclusion-exclusion principle, the general probability of getting exactly $k$ colours is



$$
P_k = (-1)^k fracbinom8kbinom8015 sum_m=2^kleft(-1right)^m binomkmbinom10m15
$$



The expected number of colours can then be written as



$$ beginalign
bark &= sum_k=2^8kcdot(-1)^k fracbinom8kbinom8015 sum_m=2^kleft(-1right)^m binomkmbinom10m15\
&= sum_m=2^8 left(-1right)^m fracbinom10m15binom8015 sum_k=m^8kcdot(-1)^k binom8k binomkm.
endalign $$



Method 2



Alternatively, I reasoned that for any given colour, the probability of having that colour in the draw is $P_mathrmc = 1 - fracbinom7015binom8015$. If the colour is included, it contributes 1 to the total number of colours, and if not, it contributes 0. The expected value of the number of colours is then



$$
bark = sum_mathrmcolours P_mathrmc = 8 - 8 fracbinom7015binom8015
$$



I can calculate both of these numbers, and for this particular case, they are the same.



What I'd like is to understand why they should be equal in general -- there's nothing in the derivations which limits us to 8 colours, 10 balls of each colour and 15 picks.



It's been a while since I had any combinatorics, so I'm a bit stuck










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Is there an algebraic way of showing that $$sum_m=lceil p / brceil^c left(-1right)^m fracbinombcdot mpbinombcdot cp sum_k=m^ckcdot(-1)^k binomck binomkm = ccdotleft[1 - fracbinombcdot[c - 1]pbinombcdot cpright], $$



for all positive integers $b$, $c$, $p$?



Background:



A friend sent me a puzzle, which I've solved in two different ways, and I'd like to convince myself that they're algebraically the same.



Specifically, I was asked to consider the following problem: Suppose we have 80 balls in a bowl of 8 different colours, with 10 of each colour. If we draw 15 of them without replacement, how many colours would we expect to see?



Method 1:



We can find the expected number of colours as the weighted average of the possible number of colours, with the weights being the probabilities: $bark = sum_k k cdot P_k$. To do this we need to calculate the probabilities of seeing exactly $k$ colours for all possible values of $k$.



The probability of using just one colour is 0, as $15 > 10$.



The probability of using exactly two colours is $binom82 cdot fracbinom2015binom8015$.



The probability of using exactly at most three colours is $binom83 cdot fracbinom3015binom8015$.This probability however includes some cases where we've picked only two colours. To get the probability of picking exactly three colours, we need to subtract these cases, giving: $binom83 cdot left[fracbinom3015binom8015 - binom32fracbinom2015binom8015right]$. Using the inclusion-exclusion principle, the general probability of getting exactly $k$ colours is



$$
P_k = (-1)^k fracbinom8kbinom8015 sum_m=2^kleft(-1right)^m binomkmbinom10m15
$$



The expected number of colours can then be written as



$$ beginalign
bark &= sum_k=2^8kcdot(-1)^k fracbinom8kbinom8015 sum_m=2^kleft(-1right)^m binomkmbinom10m15\
&= sum_m=2^8 left(-1right)^m fracbinom10m15binom8015 sum_k=m^8kcdot(-1)^k binom8k binomkm.
endalign $$



Method 2



Alternatively, I reasoned that for any given colour, the probability of having that colour in the draw is $P_mathrmc = 1 - fracbinom7015binom8015$. If the colour is included, it contributes 1 to the total number of colours, and if not, it contributes 0. The expected value of the number of colours is then



$$
bark = sum_mathrmcolours P_mathrmc = 8 - 8 fracbinom7015binom8015
$$



I can calculate both of these numbers, and for this particular case, they are the same.



What I'd like is to understand why they should be equal in general -- there's nothing in the derivations which limits us to 8 colours, 10 balls of each colour and 15 picks.



It's been a while since I had any combinatorics, so I'm a bit stuck







combinatorics puzzle inclusion-exclusion






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question



share|cite|improve this question








edited 5 hours ago







Sten

















asked 8 hours ago









StenSten

5674 silver badges15 bronze badges




5674 silver badges15 bronze badges














  • $begingroup$
    You might want to look into generating functions, which can be used to tackle problems like this generally.
    $endgroup$
    – YiFan
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    typo alert? i think you meant to say 8 different colors (2nd paragraph of Background section).
    $endgroup$
    – antkam
    5 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Whoops, thanks for catching that!
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    You might want to look into generating functions, which can be used to tackle problems like this generally.
    $endgroup$
    – YiFan
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    typo alert? i think you meant to say 8 different colors (2nd paragraph of Background section).
    $endgroup$
    – antkam
    5 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Whoops, thanks for catching that!
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago















$begingroup$
You might want to look into generating functions, which can be used to tackle problems like this generally.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
You might want to look into generating functions, which can be used to tackle problems like this generally.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
typo alert? i think you meant to say 8 different colors (2nd paragraph of Background section).
$endgroup$
– antkam
5 hours ago





$begingroup$
typo alert? i think you meant to say 8 different colors (2nd paragraph of Background section).
$endgroup$
– antkam
5 hours ago













$begingroup$
Whoops, thanks for catching that!
$endgroup$
– Sten
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
Whoops, thanks for catching that!
$endgroup$
– Sten
5 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















4
















$begingroup$

We seek to show that



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k cchoose k kchoose m
= cbcchoose p - cb(c-1)choose p.$$



We have



$$cchoose k kchoose m
= fracc!(c-k)! times m! times (k-m)!
= cchoose m c-mchoose c-k$$



and we get for the LHS



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k c-mchoose c-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k+m (k+m) c-mchoose c-m-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k (k+m) c-mchoose k.$$



Now we have



$$m sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k c-mchoose k
= m [[ c = m ]]$$



so that this becomes



$$ c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k k c-mchoose k
\ = c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=1^c-m (-1)^k c-m-1choose k-1
\ = c bcchoose p -
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k.$$



Again we have



$$sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k
= [[c-1 = m]]$$



so we find



$$c bcchoose p -
b(c-1)choose p (c-(c-1)) cchoose c-1
= c bcchoose p - c b(c-1)choose p.$$



This is the claim.






share|cite|improve this answer










$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Wow, thanks a bunch! I'd never have got there on my own.
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago












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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4
















$begingroup$

We seek to show that



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k cchoose k kchoose m
= cbcchoose p - cb(c-1)choose p.$$



We have



$$cchoose k kchoose m
= fracc!(c-k)! times m! times (k-m)!
= cchoose m c-mchoose c-k$$



and we get for the LHS



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k c-mchoose c-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k+m (k+m) c-mchoose c-m-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k (k+m) c-mchoose k.$$



Now we have



$$m sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k c-mchoose k
= m [[ c = m ]]$$



so that this becomes



$$ c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k k c-mchoose k
\ = c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=1^c-m (-1)^k c-m-1choose k-1
\ = c bcchoose p -
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k.$$



Again we have



$$sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k
= [[c-1 = m]]$$



so we find



$$c bcchoose p -
b(c-1)choose p (c-(c-1)) cchoose c-1
= c bcchoose p - c b(c-1)choose p.$$



This is the claim.






share|cite|improve this answer










$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Wow, thanks a bunch! I'd never have got there on my own.
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago















4
















$begingroup$

We seek to show that



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k cchoose k kchoose m
= cbcchoose p - cb(c-1)choose p.$$



We have



$$cchoose k kchoose m
= fracc!(c-k)! times m! times (k-m)!
= cchoose m c-mchoose c-k$$



and we get for the LHS



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k c-mchoose c-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k+m (k+m) c-mchoose c-m-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k (k+m) c-mchoose k.$$



Now we have



$$m sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k c-mchoose k
= m [[ c = m ]]$$



so that this becomes



$$ c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k k c-mchoose k
\ = c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=1^c-m (-1)^k c-m-1choose k-1
\ = c bcchoose p -
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k.$$



Again we have



$$sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k
= [[c-1 = m]]$$



so we find



$$c bcchoose p -
b(c-1)choose p (c-(c-1)) cchoose c-1
= c bcchoose p - c b(c-1)choose p.$$



This is the claim.






share|cite|improve this answer










$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Wow, thanks a bunch! I'd never have got there on my own.
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago













4














4










4







$begingroup$

We seek to show that



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k cchoose k kchoose m
= cbcchoose p - cb(c-1)choose p.$$



We have



$$cchoose k kchoose m
= fracc!(c-k)! times m! times (k-m)!
= cchoose m c-mchoose c-k$$



and we get for the LHS



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k c-mchoose c-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k+m (k+m) c-mchoose c-m-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k (k+m) c-mchoose k.$$



Now we have



$$m sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k c-mchoose k
= m [[ c = m ]]$$



so that this becomes



$$ c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k k c-mchoose k
\ = c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=1^c-m (-1)^k c-m-1choose k-1
\ = c bcchoose p -
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k.$$



Again we have



$$sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k
= [[c-1 = m]]$$



so we find



$$c bcchoose p -
b(c-1)choose p (c-(c-1)) cchoose c-1
= c bcchoose p - c b(c-1)choose p.$$



This is the claim.






share|cite|improve this answer










$endgroup$



We seek to show that



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k cchoose k kchoose m
= cbcchoose p - cb(c-1)choose p.$$



We have



$$cchoose k kchoose m
= fracc!(c-k)! times m! times (k-m)!
= cchoose m c-mchoose c-k$$



and we get for the LHS



$$sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=m^c (-1)^k k c-mchoose c-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c (-1)^m bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k+m (k+m) c-mchoose c-m-k
\ = sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k (k+m) c-mchoose k.$$



Now we have



$$m sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k c-mchoose k
= m [[ c = m ]]$$



so that this becomes



$$ c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m (-1)^k k c-mchoose k
\ = c bcchoose p +
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=1^c-m (-1)^k c-m-1choose k-1
\ = c bcchoose p -
sum_m=lceil p/b rceil^c bmchoose p
(c-m) cchoose m
sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k.$$



Again we have



$$sum_k=0^c-m-1 (-1)^k c-m-1choose k
= [[c-1 = m]]$$



so we find



$$c bcchoose p -
b(c-1)choose p (c-(c-1)) cchoose c-1
= c bcchoose p - c b(c-1)choose p.$$



This is the claim.







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answered 5 hours ago









Marko RiedelMarko Riedel

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  • $begingroup$
    Wow, thanks a bunch! I'd never have got there on my own.
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Wow, thanks a bunch! I'd never have got there on my own.
    $endgroup$
    – Sten
    5 hours ago















$begingroup$
Wow, thanks a bunch! I'd never have got there on my own.
$endgroup$
– Sten
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
Wow, thanks a bunch! I'd never have got there on my own.
$endgroup$
– Sten
5 hours ago


















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