Secluded Grimoire and DeathCan you maintain concentration on a spell from another plane?Are there any spellbooks or rules larger than 100 pages (not counting blessed book)?What happens to the contents of Leomund's Secret Chest when the caster dies?Does ethereal chamber work if both caster and target are on the Ethereal Plane?Can Leomund's Secret Chest be summoned while it is not prepared?Can I use Project Image and Ethereal to make an illusory, ethereal scout?What would happen if a wizard calls a familiar in the Ethereal Plane and then returns to the Material Plane?Can Blink and Banishment be combined to have an effect similar to Etherealness?How do the Etherealness and Banishment spells interact?

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Secluded Grimoire and Death


Can you maintain concentration on a spell from another plane?Are there any spellbooks or rules larger than 100 pages (not counting blessed book)?What happens to the contents of Leomund's Secret Chest when the caster dies?Does ethereal chamber work if both caster and target are on the Ethereal Plane?Can Leomund's Secret Chest be summoned while it is not prepared?Can I use Project Image and Ethereal to make an illusory, ethereal scout?What would happen if a wizard calls a familiar in the Ethereal Plane and then returns to the Material Plane?Can Blink and Banishment be combined to have an effect similar to Etherealness?How do the Etherealness and Banishment spells interact?






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margin-bottom:0;









1














$begingroup$


If an NPC casts Secluded Grimoire, hiding his spellbook in the ethereal plane, and then dies, is the spellbook lost forever?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    What are the other possible options? The spell description explicitly says "This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely"
    $endgroup$
    – enkryptor
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @enkryptor Maybe use the spellcasters body as a material component to summon it back?
    $endgroup$
    – Fering
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Fering if this is the question, I guess the OP should ask it straight: "how is it possible to retrieve a spellbook hidden with the Secluded Grimoire spell"
    $endgroup$
    – enkryptor
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @enkryptor: One of the other possible options are that there is a general rule which interacts with (but is not superseded by) this specific spell text. If there is a simple answer, feel free to say "this is simple, no". If there's a complex answer, then someone will supply it. The purpose of this site is to ask questions and get answers, not be rude about questions user enkryptor thinks aren't worth asking.
    $endgroup$
    – JoshuaD
    7 hours ago


















1














$begingroup$


If an NPC casts Secluded Grimoire, hiding his spellbook in the ethereal plane, and then dies, is the spellbook lost forever?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    What are the other possible options? The spell description explicitly says "This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely"
    $endgroup$
    – enkryptor
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @enkryptor Maybe use the spellcasters body as a material component to summon it back?
    $endgroup$
    – Fering
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Fering if this is the question, I guess the OP should ask it straight: "how is it possible to retrieve a spellbook hidden with the Secluded Grimoire spell"
    $endgroup$
    – enkryptor
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @enkryptor: One of the other possible options are that there is a general rule which interacts with (but is not superseded by) this specific spell text. If there is a simple answer, feel free to say "this is simple, no". If there's a complex answer, then someone will supply it. The purpose of this site is to ask questions and get answers, not be rude about questions user enkryptor thinks aren't worth asking.
    $endgroup$
    – JoshuaD
    7 hours ago














1












1








1





$begingroup$


If an NPC casts Secluded Grimoire, hiding his spellbook in the ethereal plane, and then dies, is the spellbook lost forever?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




If an NPC casts Secluded Grimoire, hiding his spellbook in the ethereal plane, and then dies, is the spellbook lost forever?







pathfinder-1e spells






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question



share|improve this question








edited 8 hours ago









william porter

5,79011 silver badges34 bronze badges




5,79011 silver badges34 bronze badges










asked 8 hours ago









JoshuaDJoshuaD

1,9521 gold badge10 silver badges36 bronze badges




1,9521 gold badge10 silver badges36 bronze badges














  • $begingroup$
    What are the other possible options? The spell description explicitly says "This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely"
    $endgroup$
    – enkryptor
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @enkryptor Maybe use the spellcasters body as a material component to summon it back?
    $endgroup$
    – Fering
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Fering if this is the question, I guess the OP should ask it straight: "how is it possible to retrieve a spellbook hidden with the Secluded Grimoire spell"
    $endgroup$
    – enkryptor
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @enkryptor: One of the other possible options are that there is a general rule which interacts with (but is not superseded by) this specific spell text. If there is a simple answer, feel free to say "this is simple, no". If there's a complex answer, then someone will supply it. The purpose of this site is to ask questions and get answers, not be rude about questions user enkryptor thinks aren't worth asking.
    $endgroup$
    – JoshuaD
    7 hours ago

















  • $begingroup$
    What are the other possible options? The spell description explicitly says "This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely"
    $endgroup$
    – enkryptor
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @enkryptor Maybe use the spellcasters body as a material component to summon it back?
    $endgroup$
    – Fering
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Fering if this is the question, I guess the OP should ask it straight: "how is it possible to retrieve a spellbook hidden with the Secluded Grimoire spell"
    $endgroup$
    – enkryptor
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @enkryptor: One of the other possible options are that there is a general rule which interacts with (but is not superseded by) this specific spell text. If there is a simple answer, feel free to say "this is simple, no". If there's a complex answer, then someone will supply it. The purpose of this site is to ask questions and get answers, not be rude about questions user enkryptor thinks aren't worth asking.
    $endgroup$
    – JoshuaD
    7 hours ago
















$begingroup$
What are the other possible options? The spell description explicitly says "This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely"
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
What are the other possible options? The spell description explicitly says "This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely"
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
8 hours ago













$begingroup$
@enkryptor Maybe use the spellcasters body as a material component to summon it back?
$endgroup$
– Fering
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
@enkryptor Maybe use the spellcasters body as a material component to summon it back?
$endgroup$
– Fering
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
@Fering if this is the question, I guess the OP should ask it straight: "how is it possible to retrieve a spellbook hidden with the Secluded Grimoire spell"
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Fering if this is the question, I guess the OP should ask it straight: "how is it possible to retrieve a spellbook hidden with the Secluded Grimoire spell"
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
@enkryptor: One of the other possible options are that there is a general rule which interacts with (but is not superseded by) this specific spell text. If there is a simple answer, feel free to say "this is simple, no". If there's a complex answer, then someone will supply it. The purpose of this site is to ask questions and get answers, not be rude about questions user enkryptor thinks aren't worth asking.
$endgroup$
– JoshuaD
7 hours ago





$begingroup$
@enkryptor: One of the other possible options are that there is a general rule which interacts with (but is not superseded by) this specific spell text. If there is a simple answer, feel free to say "this is simple, no". If there's a complex answer, then someone will supply it. The purpose of this site is to ask questions and get answers, not be rude about questions user enkryptor thinks aren't worth asking.
$endgroup$
– JoshuaD
7 hours ago











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3
















$begingroup$

GM discretion applies




Secluded Grimoire states:




Duration instantaneous



This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely. When you cast this spell, the target spellbook dissolves into quickly fading lines of energy and runes that reflect all of the spells stored within. Thereafter, you can retrieve the spellbook by concentrating as a standard action, causing it to reappear in your hands. You cannot cast this spell on another spellbook if you currently have a spellbook in the Ethereal Plane. No other creatures or objects accompany the spellbook you send away, and the duration of any spells currently affecting the spellbook continue normally.


The duration of instantaneous means that the spell will never wear off due to duration, therefore the only way to access it on the Material Plane is for the caster to spend a standard action to summon back into their hands. However the spellbook does actually exist in the Ethereal Plane, so a person with access to Plane Shift could go to the Ethereal Plane and get the spellbook.



However, since it's sent into a "random but safe location" the caster would have no idea where to look for it. This means they may not be able to find it, even with the help of a spell like Locate Object[1], though that would require having seen the spellbook before (Wish could potentially be used to find it at the GM's discretion). This means that it'd be up to the GM whether you would be able to find it all while stumbling around on the Ethereal Plane.




[1]: Discern Location also works, but requires having actually touched the spellbook before, which is unlikely if you're not the caster who owns it.






share|improve this answer












$endgroup$






















    1
















    $begingroup$

    No



    Regardless of the caster's life or death, an extraplanar expedition might be mounted to find it.



    One also might instead make use of the Discern Location spell. With such magic, one might cast Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport, then Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport so as to fetch the object most succinctly.



    If one were not trying to steal the spellbook but merely trying to retrieve it, it would certainly be simpler to merely raise the dead caster to life, then have them cast the spell to bring the book back, which would also work.



    Beyond that, one might make use of myriad contingency plans the original caster may have made use of to make retrieval easier or more accessible to get the book, for example placing a ring gate near it or making use of either version of the Refuge spell. Many of these additional means of accessing the tome will have their own ways of exploitation or use.



    Lastly, unlike leomund's secret chest (same link as above), secluded grimoire does not protect itself against Wish. Wish can move anyone anywhere else through any barriers with no chance of failure unless specifically warded against, so that would of course also work-- you could possibly go directly to the book and pick it up that way, too, depending on how the GM rules you can describe locations. If not, you could always try to use the open-ended abilities of the spell (or Miracle), but there are no reasons to do that.






    share|improve this answer










    $endgroup$
















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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

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      3
















      $begingroup$

      GM discretion applies




      Secluded Grimoire states:




      Duration instantaneous



      This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely. When you cast this spell, the target spellbook dissolves into quickly fading lines of energy and runes that reflect all of the spells stored within. Thereafter, you can retrieve the spellbook by concentrating as a standard action, causing it to reappear in your hands. You cannot cast this spell on another spellbook if you currently have a spellbook in the Ethereal Plane. No other creatures or objects accompany the spellbook you send away, and the duration of any spells currently affecting the spellbook continue normally.


      The duration of instantaneous means that the spell will never wear off due to duration, therefore the only way to access it on the Material Plane is for the caster to spend a standard action to summon back into their hands. However the spellbook does actually exist in the Ethereal Plane, so a person with access to Plane Shift could go to the Ethereal Plane and get the spellbook.



      However, since it's sent into a "random but safe location" the caster would have no idea where to look for it. This means they may not be able to find it, even with the help of a spell like Locate Object[1], though that would require having seen the spellbook before (Wish could potentially be used to find it at the GM's discretion). This means that it'd be up to the GM whether you would be able to find it all while stumbling around on the Ethereal Plane.




      [1]: Discern Location also works, but requires having actually touched the spellbook before, which is unlikely if you're not the caster who owns it.






      share|improve this answer












      $endgroup$



















        3
















        $begingroup$

        GM discretion applies




        Secluded Grimoire states:




        Duration instantaneous



        This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely. When you cast this spell, the target spellbook dissolves into quickly fading lines of energy and runes that reflect all of the spells stored within. Thereafter, you can retrieve the spellbook by concentrating as a standard action, causing it to reappear in your hands. You cannot cast this spell on another spellbook if you currently have a spellbook in the Ethereal Plane. No other creatures or objects accompany the spellbook you send away, and the duration of any spells currently affecting the spellbook continue normally.


        The duration of instantaneous means that the spell will never wear off due to duration, therefore the only way to access it on the Material Plane is for the caster to spend a standard action to summon back into their hands. However the spellbook does actually exist in the Ethereal Plane, so a person with access to Plane Shift could go to the Ethereal Plane and get the spellbook.



        However, since it's sent into a "random but safe location" the caster would have no idea where to look for it. This means they may not be able to find it, even with the help of a spell like Locate Object[1], though that would require having seen the spellbook before (Wish could potentially be used to find it at the GM's discretion). This means that it'd be up to the GM whether you would be able to find it all while stumbling around on the Ethereal Plane.




        [1]: Discern Location also works, but requires having actually touched the spellbook before, which is unlikely if you're not the caster who owns it.






        share|improve this answer












        $endgroup$

















          3














          3










          3







          $begingroup$

          GM discretion applies




          Secluded Grimoire states:




          Duration instantaneous



          This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely. When you cast this spell, the target spellbook dissolves into quickly fading lines of energy and runes that reflect all of the spells stored within. Thereafter, you can retrieve the spellbook by concentrating as a standard action, causing it to reappear in your hands. You cannot cast this spell on another spellbook if you currently have a spellbook in the Ethereal Plane. No other creatures or objects accompany the spellbook you send away, and the duration of any spells currently affecting the spellbook continue normally.


          The duration of instantaneous means that the spell will never wear off due to duration, therefore the only way to access it on the Material Plane is for the caster to spend a standard action to summon back into their hands. However the spellbook does actually exist in the Ethereal Plane, so a person with access to Plane Shift could go to the Ethereal Plane and get the spellbook.



          However, since it's sent into a "random but safe location" the caster would have no idea where to look for it. This means they may not be able to find it, even with the help of a spell like Locate Object[1], though that would require having seen the spellbook before (Wish could potentially be used to find it at the GM's discretion). This means that it'd be up to the GM whether you would be able to find it all while stumbling around on the Ethereal Plane.




          [1]: Discern Location also works, but requires having actually touched the spellbook before, which is unlikely if you're not the caster who owns it.






          share|improve this answer












          $endgroup$



          GM discretion applies




          Secluded Grimoire states:




          Duration instantaneous



          This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely. When you cast this spell, the target spellbook dissolves into quickly fading lines of energy and runes that reflect all of the spells stored within. Thereafter, you can retrieve the spellbook by concentrating as a standard action, causing it to reappear in your hands. You cannot cast this spell on another spellbook if you currently have a spellbook in the Ethereal Plane. No other creatures or objects accompany the spellbook you send away, and the duration of any spells currently affecting the spellbook continue normally.


          The duration of instantaneous means that the spell will never wear off due to duration, therefore the only way to access it on the Material Plane is for the caster to spend a standard action to summon back into their hands. However the spellbook does actually exist in the Ethereal Plane, so a person with access to Plane Shift could go to the Ethereal Plane and get the spellbook.



          However, since it's sent into a "random but safe location" the caster would have no idea where to look for it. This means they may not be able to find it, even with the help of a spell like Locate Object[1], though that would require having seen the spellbook before (Wish could potentially be used to find it at the GM's discretion). This means that it'd be up to the GM whether you would be able to find it all while stumbling around on the Ethereal Plane.




          [1]: Discern Location also works, but requires having actually touched the spellbook before, which is unlikely if you're not the caster who owns it.







          share|improve this answer















          share|improve this answer




          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 7 hours ago

























          answered 8 hours ago









          william porterwilliam porter

          5,79011 silver badges34 bronze badges




          5,79011 silver badges34 bronze badges


























              1
















              $begingroup$

              No



              Regardless of the caster's life or death, an extraplanar expedition might be mounted to find it.



              One also might instead make use of the Discern Location spell. With such magic, one might cast Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport, then Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport so as to fetch the object most succinctly.



              If one were not trying to steal the spellbook but merely trying to retrieve it, it would certainly be simpler to merely raise the dead caster to life, then have them cast the spell to bring the book back, which would also work.



              Beyond that, one might make use of myriad contingency plans the original caster may have made use of to make retrieval easier or more accessible to get the book, for example placing a ring gate near it or making use of either version of the Refuge spell. Many of these additional means of accessing the tome will have their own ways of exploitation or use.



              Lastly, unlike leomund's secret chest (same link as above), secluded grimoire does not protect itself against Wish. Wish can move anyone anywhere else through any barriers with no chance of failure unless specifically warded against, so that would of course also work-- you could possibly go directly to the book and pick it up that way, too, depending on how the GM rules you can describe locations. If not, you could always try to use the open-ended abilities of the spell (or Miracle), but there are no reasons to do that.






              share|improve this answer










              $endgroup$



















                1
















                $begingroup$

                No



                Regardless of the caster's life or death, an extraplanar expedition might be mounted to find it.



                One also might instead make use of the Discern Location spell. With such magic, one might cast Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport, then Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport so as to fetch the object most succinctly.



                If one were not trying to steal the spellbook but merely trying to retrieve it, it would certainly be simpler to merely raise the dead caster to life, then have them cast the spell to bring the book back, which would also work.



                Beyond that, one might make use of myriad contingency plans the original caster may have made use of to make retrieval easier or more accessible to get the book, for example placing a ring gate near it or making use of either version of the Refuge spell. Many of these additional means of accessing the tome will have their own ways of exploitation or use.



                Lastly, unlike leomund's secret chest (same link as above), secluded grimoire does not protect itself against Wish. Wish can move anyone anywhere else through any barriers with no chance of failure unless specifically warded against, so that would of course also work-- you could possibly go directly to the book and pick it up that way, too, depending on how the GM rules you can describe locations. If not, you could always try to use the open-ended abilities of the spell (or Miracle), but there are no reasons to do that.






                share|improve this answer










                $endgroup$

















                  1














                  1










                  1







                  $begingroup$

                  No



                  Regardless of the caster's life or death, an extraplanar expedition might be mounted to find it.



                  One also might instead make use of the Discern Location spell. With such magic, one might cast Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport, then Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport so as to fetch the object most succinctly.



                  If one were not trying to steal the spellbook but merely trying to retrieve it, it would certainly be simpler to merely raise the dead caster to life, then have them cast the spell to bring the book back, which would also work.



                  Beyond that, one might make use of myriad contingency plans the original caster may have made use of to make retrieval easier or more accessible to get the book, for example placing a ring gate near it or making use of either version of the Refuge spell. Many of these additional means of accessing the tome will have their own ways of exploitation or use.



                  Lastly, unlike leomund's secret chest (same link as above), secluded grimoire does not protect itself against Wish. Wish can move anyone anywhere else through any barriers with no chance of failure unless specifically warded against, so that would of course also work-- you could possibly go directly to the book and pick it up that way, too, depending on how the GM rules you can describe locations. If not, you could always try to use the open-ended abilities of the spell (or Miracle), but there are no reasons to do that.






                  share|improve this answer










                  $endgroup$



                  No



                  Regardless of the caster's life or death, an extraplanar expedition might be mounted to find it.



                  One also might instead make use of the Discern Location spell. With such magic, one might cast Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport, then Plane Shift, then Greater Teleport so as to fetch the object most succinctly.



                  If one were not trying to steal the spellbook but merely trying to retrieve it, it would certainly be simpler to merely raise the dead caster to life, then have them cast the spell to bring the book back, which would also work.



                  Beyond that, one might make use of myriad contingency plans the original caster may have made use of to make retrieval easier or more accessible to get the book, for example placing a ring gate near it or making use of either version of the Refuge spell. Many of these additional means of accessing the tome will have their own ways of exploitation or use.



                  Lastly, unlike leomund's secret chest (same link as above), secluded grimoire does not protect itself against Wish. Wish can move anyone anywhere else through any barriers with no chance of failure unless specifically warded against, so that would of course also work-- you could possibly go directly to the book and pick it up that way, too, depending on how the GM rules you can describe locations. If not, you could always try to use the open-ended abilities of the spell (or Miracle), but there are no reasons to do that.







                  share|improve this answer













                  share|improve this answer




                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 7 hours ago









                  the dark wandererthe dark wanderer

                  42.9k8 gold badges109 silver badges219 bronze badges




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