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Is there any way to keep a player from killing an NPC?
How do I get my PCs to not be a bunch of murderous cretins?What is “my guy syndrome” and how do I handle it?How can I impose consequences when PCs commit severe crimes?How can I make sure my players' decisions have consequences?How to handle a player that cannot be convinced his actions are a problem for both GM and partyI have a player who yells“Punishing” characters for stupid actionsHow do you deal with a player slowing the group because of indecisiveness/excessive RP?How to deal with a player that gets annoyed if the party disagree with her?Help, a player won't stop hitting on every female NPC!Trouble with player taking things that happen in game personallyHow can I prevent players from using Persuasion or Deception to weasel their way out of a murder?I created a magic item for one character and another character took itHow to prevent metagame in betrayal/PvP scenarios?
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I was running a one shot for friends and a player had gotten annoyed with an NPC that the other players really liked. This came to a head when after a combat encounter the Player decided to attack the NPC with the intention of killing them. I let one of the other players take the attack as a reaction but the attacking player was clearly very annoyed and I felt like a complete jerk.
I would've preferred for this to not have happened. I think the other players would've preferred it not to happen as well. The attacking player later explained that they felt the NPC was being a distraction and that they felt they needed to get rid of the distraction.
Is there a better way to deal with this situation in the future without being a jerk?
dnd-5e problem-players player-vs-player
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show 2 more comments
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I was running a one shot for friends and a player had gotten annoyed with an NPC that the other players really liked. This came to a head when after a combat encounter the Player decided to attack the NPC with the intention of killing them. I let one of the other players take the attack as a reaction but the attacking player was clearly very annoyed and I felt like a complete jerk.
I would've preferred for this to not have happened. I think the other players would've preferred it not to happen as well. The attacking player later explained that they felt the NPC was being a distraction and that they felt they needed to get rid of the distraction.
Is there a better way to deal with this situation in the future without being a jerk?
dnd-5e problem-players player-vs-player
New contributor
Gwideon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Welcome to the stack! Please take our tour to learn more about how we operate.
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– NautArch
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Related and possible duplicate of How do I get my PCs to not be a much of murderous cretins
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Related on How can I impose consequences when PCs commit severe crimes?, How to handle a player who doesn't believe actions are a problem for GM and party?, and How can I make sure my player's decisions have consequences?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Personally, I think you did better than some DMs which would have just given +3 Plot Armor to the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's a different player. The player here is generally more passive aggressive than aggressive.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
6 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I was running a one shot for friends and a player had gotten annoyed with an NPC that the other players really liked. This came to a head when after a combat encounter the Player decided to attack the NPC with the intention of killing them. I let one of the other players take the attack as a reaction but the attacking player was clearly very annoyed and I felt like a complete jerk.
I would've preferred for this to not have happened. I think the other players would've preferred it not to happen as well. The attacking player later explained that they felt the NPC was being a distraction and that they felt they needed to get rid of the distraction.
Is there a better way to deal with this situation in the future without being a jerk?
dnd-5e problem-players player-vs-player
New contributor
Gwideon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
I was running a one shot for friends and a player had gotten annoyed with an NPC that the other players really liked. This came to a head when after a combat encounter the Player decided to attack the NPC with the intention of killing them. I let one of the other players take the attack as a reaction but the attacking player was clearly very annoyed and I felt like a complete jerk.
I would've preferred for this to not have happened. I think the other players would've preferred it not to happen as well. The attacking player later explained that they felt the NPC was being a distraction and that they felt they needed to get rid of the distraction.
Is there a better way to deal with this situation in the future without being a jerk?
dnd-5e problem-players player-vs-player
dnd-5e problem-players player-vs-player
New contributor
Gwideon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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edited 8 hours ago
NathanS
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asked 9 hours ago
GwideonGwideon
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$begingroup$
Welcome to the stack! Please take our tour to learn more about how we operate.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Related and possible duplicate of How do I get my PCs to not be a much of murderous cretins
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Related on How can I impose consequences when PCs commit severe crimes?, How to handle a player who doesn't believe actions are a problem for GM and party?, and How can I make sure my player's decisions have consequences?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Personally, I think you did better than some DMs which would have just given +3 Plot Armor to the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's a different player. The player here is generally more passive aggressive than aggressive.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
6 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Welcome to the stack! Please take our tour to learn more about how we operate.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Related and possible duplicate of How do I get my PCs to not be a much of murderous cretins
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Related on How can I impose consequences when PCs commit severe crimes?, How to handle a player who doesn't believe actions are a problem for GM and party?, and How can I make sure my player's decisions have consequences?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Personally, I think you did better than some DMs which would have just given +3 Plot Armor to the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's a different player. The player here is generally more passive aggressive than aggressive.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to the stack! Please take our tour to learn more about how we operate.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to the stack! Please take our tour to learn more about how we operate.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Related and possible duplicate of How do I get my PCs to not be a much of murderous cretins
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related and possible duplicate of How do I get my PCs to not be a much of murderous cretins
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Related on How can I impose consequences when PCs commit severe crimes?, How to handle a player who doesn't believe actions are a problem for GM and party?, and How can I make sure my player's decisions have consequences?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related on How can I impose consequences when PCs commit severe crimes?, How to handle a player who doesn't believe actions are a problem for GM and party?, and How can I make sure my player's decisions have consequences?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Personally, I think you did better than some DMs which would have just given +3 Plot Armor to the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Personally, I think you did better than some DMs which would have just given +3 Plot Armor to the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
It's a different player. The player here is generally more passive aggressive than aggressive.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's a different player. The player here is generally more passive aggressive than aggressive.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
6 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You were not being a jerk
Both of your players were offered agency: the one got the chance to attack an NPC and the other got the chance to interfere with a murder.
If the murder hobo player is upset about this, what you next do is discuss with them why they feel that way, and why they feel that killing NPC's out of hand is a solution to any problem when the other members of the party do not.
What if this comes up again?
Death saving throws for NPC's in within your remit as the DM to use.
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters. (Basic Rules, p. 79)
You can use this for any NPC, not only "special ones," as the situation fits. This way the player could kill an NPC (well, drop them to 0 HP) but that still gives the other players a chance to try and stabalize/heal the downed NPC if their PCs are against this.
Experience as a player
About a month ago, my life cleric did this very thing when a few of the other PCs (my brother is the DM) got carried away with an argument with the town guards and ended up dropping three of them to 0 HP. I did my best to stabilize / heal them, and the DM went along with it based on the above rule. It worked out in the end for two of them, but the third one had taken "massive damage" so I convinced the other PCs (my nephew's rogue/ranger backed my play) to pay the widow a weregild. That happened during the next play session.
RP wise, it made for a neat session. Story wise, it turned out that people across the river heard of our attempts to make amends and it resulted in making more contacts, etc, with NPCs.
Experience with this as DM
The party encountered some hobgoblins mounted on Dire Wolves who did not attack, but approached the party. The party simply attacked them anyway. The last HG tried to surrender but the party wizard zapped him with a firebolt.
So I had him make death saving throws. He passed. When the rogue went to loot the hobgoblin I let him know "this one's still alive; unconscious but stable." He chose to ask the cleric to heal the hobgoblin. With a revived hobgoblin, they had a discussion about the real threat in the area: ogres, zombies, and ogre zombies. (Led by a wight). Those monsters had been a problem for the hobgoblin village a bit further north. They ended up letting the hobgoblin go home. (I now jokingly refer to the wizard as Quickdraw).
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1
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@NautArch I offered an mechanic to use.
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– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
1
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Massive damage is a real concern against a commoner, though. They may still be killed (and probably will.) But a good mechanic to have, nonetheless!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Yes, in the example I used, I only saved two of the three. The other one had massive damage. Funny you bring that up.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
The reference to My Guy Syndrome seems gratuitous here; the player decided to attack the dude not by blindly following in-character reasons, but because the player was personally annoyed with the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@MarkWells Ya know, I think you are right. I'll remove that.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Change behavior using consequences
Consequences for villainous behavior
Ensure that the world you're describing has a reaction to the parties actions. Make it clear that the world they are participating in does not like nor want some kinds of behavior.
A party that gains a reputation as being murderous, might attract the bounties or end up as the target of good adventurers. This can be expressed through the subsequent interactions with PCs. Some examples that are usually pretty clear, but not debilitating are:
- NPCs that tell the party they've heard of them and are afraid of them.
- NPCs that will not help the party because of something specific they did and there is now a story about.
- Being hunted by a group of adventurers that have been tasked with hunting down "villains"
- Being refused admission to places or being asked to leave when they are recognized.
Benefits for NPCs dealt with nicely.
Make rewards for the kind of behavior that the world likes be tangible and tied to the behavior. Trading fairly, good deeds, and mercy could be examples of behavior that others will hear of and appreciate. An example is not slaying defeated foes.
Letting opponents live
Make note of opponents that were defeated and allowed to live or escape. Make the circumstances of that come back around. If the player characters were benevolent or malicious, that information will spread. Perhaps they encounter the relatives, friends, or allies of an enemy they allowed to surrender. The treatment of the previous encounter should affect the subsequent interactions.
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This is generally great advice but I'm not sure it applies to a one-shot. There may be no time at all for natural consequences as described to develop — or if they do, no time left for the planned adventure.
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– mattdm
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@mattdm For one shots, the consequences just have to come around more quickly. That's a narrative detail for the storytellers. e.g. instead of wanted posters, a witness runs to the nearest Inn and implores loudly that some heroes are needed to save them from villains (PCs)
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– GcL
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
But this is then "how to punish the player after the deed is done". In a long-running game, the first time might be a lesson — to, as you say, change behavior. In a one-evening adventure, once is enough to ruin the whole thing.
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– mattdm
5 hours ago
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@mattdm consequences and punishment are different. Highlighting beneficial results of desired behavior immediately and negative effects of untoward behavior preserve player agency and make it clear which the story world and narrator prefers. Poor choices are learning experiences. If the game was ruined by a single murder hobo choice, than it was likely too fragile to be a one shot to begin with.
$endgroup$
– GcL
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@GcL it wasn’t ruined. The npc was merely a side character that the pcs had taken a liking to. Anyways thank you for the advice but it might be hard to implement into a one shot without completely derailing it.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Figure out how to make the NPC less distracting
The other two answers are great, but as described it sounds like a social problem bleeding into the game.
Your player is frustrated and no one else seems to notice or care.
The game gives them agency that they don't have socially, so they
used what they had to remove their frustration.Without knowing more about the details of the game session, the best solution is probably to ask the frustrated player, then the whole table, how to resolve the issue.
In-game, I think you handled it right. The other players should have a choice in at least attempting to stop NPC murder. But it sounds like there is a root cause that needs investigation.
As general advice for not making your NPCs targets for murder:
- NPCs need to be useful. An NPC who isn't pulling their weight is luggage, not a person.
- NPCs can't be too useful. Assistance doesn't mean doing things for the players. Especially in combat. Combat NPCs should fill a missing role, and never outshine a player in their established role.
The players are the decision makers. Hopefully your rescued prince, despite being royalty, knows when to shut up and let the professional adventurers decide how to escape the bad situation.- Murder has consequences. There should be in-game motivations for characters to not murder someone, even if they want that someone to die.
- NPCs shouldn't be complicated. Player Characters have a lot of stats and features. It's already a full time job managing the world and monsters, don't slow things down with a character complex enough to be someone's full time job.
I've recently come across issues with my players finding NPCs bothersome.
Regarding reason #1, in The Sunless Citadel, the first adventure in Tales from the Yawning Portal, there party has a chance to rescue a gnome captured by goblins, who can choose to accompany the players.
This gnome isn't a full player character, and isn't very tough, so I'd play him as keeping back and only taking a stab at enemies with a borrowed dagger when absolutely necessary. He can heal (like a L2 Cleric), but with limited spell slots he often came off as useless. He didn't really earn his keep until he saved a downed player character by dragging them out of combat before casting a healing spell, and even then the players (well, one specifically) only begrudgingly accepted his presence.
For my final point, in our most recent dungeon I introduced basically a GMPC that I intended mostly to be that other adventurer that happens to be adventuring in the same place at the same time as the party, that they could bump into here and there but would stay out of each other's way. When half of the group couldn't make it to a recent session, I brought this NPC as an ally to round out the group and give them confidence.
I unfortunately made them rather complicated, and had to take extra table time during combat to check class features and look up a couple of spells. Though the players were grateful for the help in combat, I could see in their expressions that they would have preferred things to be moving faster. I haven't yet solved this for myself, but being aware of the problem will make it easier to avoid this issue in the future.
Please see other questions about GMPCs as explanation for item #2, railroading for item #3, and the other great answers for #4.
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$begingroup$
You made a very nice point about how the acting out may have happened, so I pulled it into a bullet to highlight that point. (+1 in any case, nicely presented answer)
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– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
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Would the downvoters mind giving advice on how this answer could be improved?
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– aherocalledFrog
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
What you are running in to here may be a result of a change in norms on this site that is discussed in this meta Q&A.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Stop
This is an out-of-game problem with the players (including the DM), it needs an out-of-game solution. Stop the game, talk it out, come to an agreement and then start the game again.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
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$begingroup$
You were not being a jerk
Both of your players were offered agency: the one got the chance to attack an NPC and the other got the chance to interfere with a murder.
If the murder hobo player is upset about this, what you next do is discuss with them why they feel that way, and why they feel that killing NPC's out of hand is a solution to any problem when the other members of the party do not.
What if this comes up again?
Death saving throws for NPC's in within your remit as the DM to use.
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters. (Basic Rules, p. 79)
You can use this for any NPC, not only "special ones," as the situation fits. This way the player could kill an NPC (well, drop them to 0 HP) but that still gives the other players a chance to try and stabalize/heal the downed NPC if their PCs are against this.
Experience as a player
About a month ago, my life cleric did this very thing when a few of the other PCs (my brother is the DM) got carried away with an argument with the town guards and ended up dropping three of them to 0 HP. I did my best to stabilize / heal them, and the DM went along with it based on the above rule. It worked out in the end for two of them, but the third one had taken "massive damage" so I convinced the other PCs (my nephew's rogue/ranger backed my play) to pay the widow a weregild. That happened during the next play session.
RP wise, it made for a neat session. Story wise, it turned out that people across the river heard of our attempts to make amends and it resulted in making more contacts, etc, with NPCs.
Experience with this as DM
The party encountered some hobgoblins mounted on Dire Wolves who did not attack, but approached the party. The party simply attacked them anyway. The last HG tried to surrender but the party wizard zapped him with a firebolt.
So I had him make death saving throws. He passed. When the rogue went to loot the hobgoblin I let him know "this one's still alive; unconscious but stable." He chose to ask the cleric to heal the hobgoblin. With a revived hobgoblin, they had a discussion about the real threat in the area: ogres, zombies, and ogre zombies. (Led by a wight). Those monsters had been a problem for the hobgoblin village a bit further north. They ended up letting the hobgoblin go home. (I now jokingly refer to the wizard as Quickdraw).
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch I offered an mechanic to use.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Massive damage is a real concern against a commoner, though. They may still be killed (and probably will.) But a good mechanic to have, nonetheless!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Yes, in the example I used, I only saved two of the three. The other one had massive damage. Funny you bring that up.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
The reference to My Guy Syndrome seems gratuitous here; the player decided to attack the dude not by blindly following in-character reasons, but because the player was personally annoyed with the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@MarkWells Ya know, I think you are right. I'll remove that.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You were not being a jerk
Both of your players were offered agency: the one got the chance to attack an NPC and the other got the chance to interfere with a murder.
If the murder hobo player is upset about this, what you next do is discuss with them why they feel that way, and why they feel that killing NPC's out of hand is a solution to any problem when the other members of the party do not.
What if this comes up again?
Death saving throws for NPC's in within your remit as the DM to use.
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters. (Basic Rules, p. 79)
You can use this for any NPC, not only "special ones," as the situation fits. This way the player could kill an NPC (well, drop them to 0 HP) but that still gives the other players a chance to try and stabalize/heal the downed NPC if their PCs are against this.
Experience as a player
About a month ago, my life cleric did this very thing when a few of the other PCs (my brother is the DM) got carried away with an argument with the town guards and ended up dropping three of them to 0 HP. I did my best to stabilize / heal them, and the DM went along with it based on the above rule. It worked out in the end for two of them, but the third one had taken "massive damage" so I convinced the other PCs (my nephew's rogue/ranger backed my play) to pay the widow a weregild. That happened during the next play session.
RP wise, it made for a neat session. Story wise, it turned out that people across the river heard of our attempts to make amends and it resulted in making more contacts, etc, with NPCs.
Experience with this as DM
The party encountered some hobgoblins mounted on Dire Wolves who did not attack, but approached the party. The party simply attacked them anyway. The last HG tried to surrender but the party wizard zapped him with a firebolt.
So I had him make death saving throws. He passed. When the rogue went to loot the hobgoblin I let him know "this one's still alive; unconscious but stable." He chose to ask the cleric to heal the hobgoblin. With a revived hobgoblin, they had a discussion about the real threat in the area: ogres, zombies, and ogre zombies. (Led by a wight). Those monsters had been a problem for the hobgoblin village a bit further north. They ended up letting the hobgoblin go home. (I now jokingly refer to the wizard as Quickdraw).
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch I offered an mechanic to use.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Massive damage is a real concern against a commoner, though. They may still be killed (and probably will.) But a good mechanic to have, nonetheless!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Yes, in the example I used, I only saved two of the three. The other one had massive damage. Funny you bring that up.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
The reference to My Guy Syndrome seems gratuitous here; the player decided to attack the dude not by blindly following in-character reasons, but because the player was personally annoyed with the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@MarkWells Ya know, I think you are right. I'll remove that.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You were not being a jerk
Both of your players were offered agency: the one got the chance to attack an NPC and the other got the chance to interfere with a murder.
If the murder hobo player is upset about this, what you next do is discuss with them why they feel that way, and why they feel that killing NPC's out of hand is a solution to any problem when the other members of the party do not.
What if this comes up again?
Death saving throws for NPC's in within your remit as the DM to use.
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters. (Basic Rules, p. 79)
You can use this for any NPC, not only "special ones," as the situation fits. This way the player could kill an NPC (well, drop them to 0 HP) but that still gives the other players a chance to try and stabalize/heal the downed NPC if their PCs are against this.
Experience as a player
About a month ago, my life cleric did this very thing when a few of the other PCs (my brother is the DM) got carried away with an argument with the town guards and ended up dropping three of them to 0 HP. I did my best to stabilize / heal them, and the DM went along with it based on the above rule. It worked out in the end for two of them, but the third one had taken "massive damage" so I convinced the other PCs (my nephew's rogue/ranger backed my play) to pay the widow a weregild. That happened during the next play session.
RP wise, it made for a neat session. Story wise, it turned out that people across the river heard of our attempts to make amends and it resulted in making more contacts, etc, with NPCs.
Experience with this as DM
The party encountered some hobgoblins mounted on Dire Wolves who did not attack, but approached the party. The party simply attacked them anyway. The last HG tried to surrender but the party wizard zapped him with a firebolt.
So I had him make death saving throws. He passed. When the rogue went to loot the hobgoblin I let him know "this one's still alive; unconscious but stable." He chose to ask the cleric to heal the hobgoblin. With a revived hobgoblin, they had a discussion about the real threat in the area: ogres, zombies, and ogre zombies. (Led by a wight). Those monsters had been a problem for the hobgoblin village a bit further north. They ended up letting the hobgoblin go home. (I now jokingly refer to the wizard as Quickdraw).
$endgroup$
You were not being a jerk
Both of your players were offered agency: the one got the chance to attack an NPC and the other got the chance to interfere with a murder.
If the murder hobo player is upset about this, what you next do is discuss with them why they feel that way, and why they feel that killing NPC's out of hand is a solution to any problem when the other members of the party do not.
What if this comes up again?
Death saving throws for NPC's in within your remit as the DM to use.
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters. (Basic Rules, p. 79)
You can use this for any NPC, not only "special ones," as the situation fits. This way the player could kill an NPC (well, drop them to 0 HP) but that still gives the other players a chance to try and stabalize/heal the downed NPC if their PCs are against this.
Experience as a player
About a month ago, my life cleric did this very thing when a few of the other PCs (my brother is the DM) got carried away with an argument with the town guards and ended up dropping three of them to 0 HP. I did my best to stabilize / heal them, and the DM went along with it based on the above rule. It worked out in the end for two of them, but the third one had taken "massive damage" so I convinced the other PCs (my nephew's rogue/ranger backed my play) to pay the widow a weregild. That happened during the next play session.
RP wise, it made for a neat session. Story wise, it turned out that people across the river heard of our attempts to make amends and it resulted in making more contacts, etc, with NPCs.
Experience with this as DM
The party encountered some hobgoblins mounted on Dire Wolves who did not attack, but approached the party. The party simply attacked them anyway. The last HG tried to surrender but the party wizard zapped him with a firebolt.
So I had him make death saving throws. He passed. When the rogue went to loot the hobgoblin I let him know "this one's still alive; unconscious but stable." He chose to ask the cleric to heal the hobgoblin. With a revived hobgoblin, they had a discussion about the real threat in the area: ogres, zombies, and ogre zombies. (Led by a wight). Those monsters had been a problem for the hobgoblin village a bit further north. They ended up letting the hobgoblin go home. (I now jokingly refer to the wizard as Quickdraw).
edited 5 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
KorvinStarmastKorvinStarmast
94.1k23 gold badges314 silver badges505 bronze badges
94.1k23 gold badges314 silver badges505 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch I offered an mechanic to use.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Massive damage is a real concern against a commoner, though. They may still be killed (and probably will.) But a good mechanic to have, nonetheless!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Yes, in the example I used, I only saved two of the three. The other one had massive damage. Funny you bring that up.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
The reference to My Guy Syndrome seems gratuitous here; the player decided to attack the dude not by blindly following in-character reasons, but because the player was personally annoyed with the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@MarkWells Ya know, I think you are right. I'll remove that.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch I offered an mechanic to use.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Massive damage is a real concern against a commoner, though. They may still be killed (and probably will.) But a good mechanic to have, nonetheless!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Yes, in the example I used, I only saved two of the three. The other one had massive damage. Funny you bring that up.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
The reference to My Guy Syndrome seems gratuitous here; the player decided to attack the dude not by blindly following in-character reasons, but because the player was personally annoyed with the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@MarkWells Ya know, I think you are right. I'll remove that.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch I offered an mechanic to use.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch I offered an mechanic to use.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Massive damage is a real concern against a commoner, though. They may still be killed (and probably will.) But a good mechanic to have, nonetheless!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Massive damage is a real concern against a commoner, though. They may still be killed (and probably will.) But a good mechanic to have, nonetheless!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Yes, in the example I used, I only saved two of the three. The other one had massive damage. Funny you bring that up.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Yes, in the example I used, I only saved two of the three. The other one had massive damage. Funny you bring that up.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
9 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
The reference to My Guy Syndrome seems gratuitous here; the player decided to attack the dude not by blindly following in-character reasons, but because the player was personally annoyed with the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The reference to My Guy Syndrome seems gratuitous here; the player decided to attack the dude not by blindly following in-character reasons, but because the player was personally annoyed with the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@MarkWells Ya know, I think you are right. I'll remove that.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarkWells Ya know, I think you are right. I'll remove that.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Change behavior using consequences
Consequences for villainous behavior
Ensure that the world you're describing has a reaction to the parties actions. Make it clear that the world they are participating in does not like nor want some kinds of behavior.
A party that gains a reputation as being murderous, might attract the bounties or end up as the target of good adventurers. This can be expressed through the subsequent interactions with PCs. Some examples that are usually pretty clear, but not debilitating are:
- NPCs that tell the party they've heard of them and are afraid of them.
- NPCs that will not help the party because of something specific they did and there is now a story about.
- Being hunted by a group of adventurers that have been tasked with hunting down "villains"
- Being refused admission to places or being asked to leave when they are recognized.
Benefits for NPCs dealt with nicely.
Make rewards for the kind of behavior that the world likes be tangible and tied to the behavior. Trading fairly, good deeds, and mercy could be examples of behavior that others will hear of and appreciate. An example is not slaying defeated foes.
Letting opponents live
Make note of opponents that were defeated and allowed to live or escape. Make the circumstances of that come back around. If the player characters were benevolent or malicious, that information will spread. Perhaps they encounter the relatives, friends, or allies of an enemy they allowed to surrender. The treatment of the previous encounter should affect the subsequent interactions.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This is generally great advice but I'm not sure it applies to a one-shot. There may be no time at all for natural consequences as described to develop — or if they do, no time left for the planned adventure.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@mattdm For one shots, the consequences just have to come around more quickly. That's a narrative detail for the storytellers. e.g. instead of wanted posters, a witness runs to the nearest Inn and implores loudly that some heroes are needed to save them from villains (PCs)
$endgroup$
– GcL
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
But this is then "how to punish the player after the deed is done". In a long-running game, the first time might be a lesson — to, as you say, change behavior. In a one-evening adventure, once is enough to ruin the whole thing.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@mattdm consequences and punishment are different. Highlighting beneficial results of desired behavior immediately and negative effects of untoward behavior preserve player agency and make it clear which the story world and narrator prefers. Poor choices are learning experiences. If the game was ruined by a single murder hobo choice, than it was likely too fragile to be a one shot to begin with.
$endgroup$
– GcL
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@GcL it wasn’t ruined. The npc was merely a side character that the pcs had taken a liking to. Anyways thank you for the advice but it might be hard to implement into a one shot without completely derailing it.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Change behavior using consequences
Consequences for villainous behavior
Ensure that the world you're describing has a reaction to the parties actions. Make it clear that the world they are participating in does not like nor want some kinds of behavior.
A party that gains a reputation as being murderous, might attract the bounties or end up as the target of good adventurers. This can be expressed through the subsequent interactions with PCs. Some examples that are usually pretty clear, but not debilitating are:
- NPCs that tell the party they've heard of them and are afraid of them.
- NPCs that will not help the party because of something specific they did and there is now a story about.
- Being hunted by a group of adventurers that have been tasked with hunting down "villains"
- Being refused admission to places or being asked to leave when they are recognized.
Benefits for NPCs dealt with nicely.
Make rewards for the kind of behavior that the world likes be tangible and tied to the behavior. Trading fairly, good deeds, and mercy could be examples of behavior that others will hear of and appreciate. An example is not slaying defeated foes.
Letting opponents live
Make note of opponents that were defeated and allowed to live or escape. Make the circumstances of that come back around. If the player characters were benevolent or malicious, that information will spread. Perhaps they encounter the relatives, friends, or allies of an enemy they allowed to surrender. The treatment of the previous encounter should affect the subsequent interactions.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This is generally great advice but I'm not sure it applies to a one-shot. There may be no time at all for natural consequences as described to develop — or if they do, no time left for the planned adventure.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@mattdm For one shots, the consequences just have to come around more quickly. That's a narrative detail for the storytellers. e.g. instead of wanted posters, a witness runs to the nearest Inn and implores loudly that some heroes are needed to save them from villains (PCs)
$endgroup$
– GcL
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
But this is then "how to punish the player after the deed is done". In a long-running game, the first time might be a lesson — to, as you say, change behavior. In a one-evening adventure, once is enough to ruin the whole thing.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@mattdm consequences and punishment are different. Highlighting beneficial results of desired behavior immediately and negative effects of untoward behavior preserve player agency and make it clear which the story world and narrator prefers. Poor choices are learning experiences. If the game was ruined by a single murder hobo choice, than it was likely too fragile to be a one shot to begin with.
$endgroup$
– GcL
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@GcL it wasn’t ruined. The npc was merely a side character that the pcs had taken a liking to. Anyways thank you for the advice but it might be hard to implement into a one shot without completely derailing it.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Change behavior using consequences
Consequences for villainous behavior
Ensure that the world you're describing has a reaction to the parties actions. Make it clear that the world they are participating in does not like nor want some kinds of behavior.
A party that gains a reputation as being murderous, might attract the bounties or end up as the target of good adventurers. This can be expressed through the subsequent interactions with PCs. Some examples that are usually pretty clear, but not debilitating are:
- NPCs that tell the party they've heard of them and are afraid of them.
- NPCs that will not help the party because of something specific they did and there is now a story about.
- Being hunted by a group of adventurers that have been tasked with hunting down "villains"
- Being refused admission to places or being asked to leave when they are recognized.
Benefits for NPCs dealt with nicely.
Make rewards for the kind of behavior that the world likes be tangible and tied to the behavior. Trading fairly, good deeds, and mercy could be examples of behavior that others will hear of and appreciate. An example is not slaying defeated foes.
Letting opponents live
Make note of opponents that were defeated and allowed to live or escape. Make the circumstances of that come back around. If the player characters were benevolent or malicious, that information will spread. Perhaps they encounter the relatives, friends, or allies of an enemy they allowed to surrender. The treatment of the previous encounter should affect the subsequent interactions.
$endgroup$
Change behavior using consequences
Consequences for villainous behavior
Ensure that the world you're describing has a reaction to the parties actions. Make it clear that the world they are participating in does not like nor want some kinds of behavior.
A party that gains a reputation as being murderous, might attract the bounties or end up as the target of good adventurers. This can be expressed through the subsequent interactions with PCs. Some examples that are usually pretty clear, but not debilitating are:
- NPCs that tell the party they've heard of them and are afraid of them.
- NPCs that will not help the party because of something specific they did and there is now a story about.
- Being hunted by a group of adventurers that have been tasked with hunting down "villains"
- Being refused admission to places or being asked to leave when they are recognized.
Benefits for NPCs dealt with nicely.
Make rewards for the kind of behavior that the world likes be tangible and tied to the behavior. Trading fairly, good deeds, and mercy could be examples of behavior that others will hear of and appreciate. An example is not slaying defeated foes.
Letting opponents live
Make note of opponents that were defeated and allowed to live or escape. Make the circumstances of that come back around. If the player characters were benevolent or malicious, that information will spread. Perhaps they encounter the relatives, friends, or allies of an enemy they allowed to surrender. The treatment of the previous encounter should affect the subsequent interactions.
edited 8 hours ago
NathanS
32.8k13 gold badges172 silver badges334 bronze badges
32.8k13 gold badges172 silver badges334 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
GcLGcL
15.7k2 gold badges47 silver badges101 bronze badges
15.7k2 gold badges47 silver badges101 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
This is generally great advice but I'm not sure it applies to a one-shot. There may be no time at all for natural consequences as described to develop — or if they do, no time left for the planned adventure.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@mattdm For one shots, the consequences just have to come around more quickly. That's a narrative detail for the storytellers. e.g. instead of wanted posters, a witness runs to the nearest Inn and implores loudly that some heroes are needed to save them from villains (PCs)
$endgroup$
– GcL
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
But this is then "how to punish the player after the deed is done". In a long-running game, the first time might be a lesson — to, as you say, change behavior. In a one-evening adventure, once is enough to ruin the whole thing.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@mattdm consequences and punishment are different. Highlighting beneficial results of desired behavior immediately and negative effects of untoward behavior preserve player agency and make it clear which the story world and narrator prefers. Poor choices are learning experiences. If the game was ruined by a single murder hobo choice, than it was likely too fragile to be a one shot to begin with.
$endgroup$
– GcL
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@GcL it wasn’t ruined. The npc was merely a side character that the pcs had taken a liking to. Anyways thank you for the advice but it might be hard to implement into a one shot without completely derailing it.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
This is generally great advice but I'm not sure it applies to a one-shot. There may be no time at all for natural consequences as described to develop — or if they do, no time left for the planned adventure.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@mattdm For one shots, the consequences just have to come around more quickly. That's a narrative detail for the storytellers. e.g. instead of wanted posters, a witness runs to the nearest Inn and implores loudly that some heroes are needed to save them from villains (PCs)
$endgroup$
– GcL
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
But this is then "how to punish the player after the deed is done". In a long-running game, the first time might be a lesson — to, as you say, change behavior. In a one-evening adventure, once is enough to ruin the whole thing.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@mattdm consequences and punishment are different. Highlighting beneficial results of desired behavior immediately and negative effects of untoward behavior preserve player agency and make it clear which the story world and narrator prefers. Poor choices are learning experiences. If the game was ruined by a single murder hobo choice, than it was likely too fragile to be a one shot to begin with.
$endgroup$
– GcL
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@GcL it wasn’t ruined. The npc was merely a side character that the pcs had taken a liking to. Anyways thank you for the advice but it might be hard to implement into a one shot without completely derailing it.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
This is generally great advice but I'm not sure it applies to a one-shot. There may be no time at all for natural consequences as described to develop — or if they do, no time left for the planned adventure.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is generally great advice but I'm not sure it applies to a one-shot. There may be no time at all for natural consequences as described to develop — or if they do, no time left for the planned adventure.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@mattdm For one shots, the consequences just have to come around more quickly. That's a narrative detail for the storytellers. e.g. instead of wanted posters, a witness runs to the nearest Inn and implores loudly that some heroes are needed to save them from villains (PCs)
$endgroup$
– GcL
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@mattdm For one shots, the consequences just have to come around more quickly. That's a narrative detail for the storytellers. e.g. instead of wanted posters, a witness runs to the nearest Inn and implores loudly that some heroes are needed to save them from villains (PCs)
$endgroup$
– GcL
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
But this is then "how to punish the player after the deed is done". In a long-running game, the first time might be a lesson — to, as you say, change behavior. In a one-evening adventure, once is enough to ruin the whole thing.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
But this is then "how to punish the player after the deed is done". In a long-running game, the first time might be a lesson — to, as you say, change behavior. In a one-evening adventure, once is enough to ruin the whole thing.
$endgroup$
– mattdm
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@mattdm consequences and punishment are different. Highlighting beneficial results of desired behavior immediately and negative effects of untoward behavior preserve player agency and make it clear which the story world and narrator prefers. Poor choices are learning experiences. If the game was ruined by a single murder hobo choice, than it was likely too fragile to be a one shot to begin with.
$endgroup$
– GcL
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@mattdm consequences and punishment are different. Highlighting beneficial results of desired behavior immediately and negative effects of untoward behavior preserve player agency and make it clear which the story world and narrator prefers. Poor choices are learning experiences. If the game was ruined by a single murder hobo choice, than it was likely too fragile to be a one shot to begin with.
$endgroup$
– GcL
5 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@GcL it wasn’t ruined. The npc was merely a side character that the pcs had taken a liking to. Anyways thank you for the advice but it might be hard to implement into a one shot without completely derailing it.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@GcL it wasn’t ruined. The npc was merely a side character that the pcs had taken a liking to. Anyways thank you for the advice but it might be hard to implement into a one shot without completely derailing it.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Figure out how to make the NPC less distracting
The other two answers are great, but as described it sounds like a social problem bleeding into the game.
Your player is frustrated and no one else seems to notice or care.
The game gives them agency that they don't have socially, so they
used what they had to remove their frustration.Without knowing more about the details of the game session, the best solution is probably to ask the frustrated player, then the whole table, how to resolve the issue.
In-game, I think you handled it right. The other players should have a choice in at least attempting to stop NPC murder. But it sounds like there is a root cause that needs investigation.
As general advice for not making your NPCs targets for murder:
- NPCs need to be useful. An NPC who isn't pulling their weight is luggage, not a person.
- NPCs can't be too useful. Assistance doesn't mean doing things for the players. Especially in combat. Combat NPCs should fill a missing role, and never outshine a player in their established role.
The players are the decision makers. Hopefully your rescued prince, despite being royalty, knows when to shut up and let the professional adventurers decide how to escape the bad situation.- Murder has consequences. There should be in-game motivations for characters to not murder someone, even if they want that someone to die.
- NPCs shouldn't be complicated. Player Characters have a lot of stats and features. It's already a full time job managing the world and monsters, don't slow things down with a character complex enough to be someone's full time job.
I've recently come across issues with my players finding NPCs bothersome.
Regarding reason #1, in The Sunless Citadel, the first adventure in Tales from the Yawning Portal, there party has a chance to rescue a gnome captured by goblins, who can choose to accompany the players.
This gnome isn't a full player character, and isn't very tough, so I'd play him as keeping back and only taking a stab at enemies with a borrowed dagger when absolutely necessary. He can heal (like a L2 Cleric), but with limited spell slots he often came off as useless. He didn't really earn his keep until he saved a downed player character by dragging them out of combat before casting a healing spell, and even then the players (well, one specifically) only begrudgingly accepted his presence.
For my final point, in our most recent dungeon I introduced basically a GMPC that I intended mostly to be that other adventurer that happens to be adventuring in the same place at the same time as the party, that they could bump into here and there but would stay out of each other's way. When half of the group couldn't make it to a recent session, I brought this NPC as an ally to round out the group and give them confidence.
I unfortunately made them rather complicated, and had to take extra table time during combat to check class features and look up a couple of spells. Though the players were grateful for the help in combat, I could see in their expressions that they would have preferred things to be moving faster. I haven't yet solved this for myself, but being aware of the problem will make it easier to avoid this issue in the future.
Please see other questions about GMPCs as explanation for item #2, railroading for item #3, and the other great answers for #4.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You made a very nice point about how the acting out may have happened, so I pulled it into a bullet to highlight that point. (+1 in any case, nicely presented answer)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Would the downvoters mind giving advice on how this answer could be improved?
$endgroup$
– aherocalledFrog
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
What you are running in to here may be a result of a change in norms on this site that is discussed in this meta Q&A.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Figure out how to make the NPC less distracting
The other two answers are great, but as described it sounds like a social problem bleeding into the game.
Your player is frustrated and no one else seems to notice or care.
The game gives them agency that they don't have socially, so they
used what they had to remove their frustration.Without knowing more about the details of the game session, the best solution is probably to ask the frustrated player, then the whole table, how to resolve the issue.
In-game, I think you handled it right. The other players should have a choice in at least attempting to stop NPC murder. But it sounds like there is a root cause that needs investigation.
As general advice for not making your NPCs targets for murder:
- NPCs need to be useful. An NPC who isn't pulling their weight is luggage, not a person.
- NPCs can't be too useful. Assistance doesn't mean doing things for the players. Especially in combat. Combat NPCs should fill a missing role, and never outshine a player in their established role.
The players are the decision makers. Hopefully your rescued prince, despite being royalty, knows when to shut up and let the professional adventurers decide how to escape the bad situation.- Murder has consequences. There should be in-game motivations for characters to not murder someone, even if they want that someone to die.
- NPCs shouldn't be complicated. Player Characters have a lot of stats and features. It's already a full time job managing the world and monsters, don't slow things down with a character complex enough to be someone's full time job.
I've recently come across issues with my players finding NPCs bothersome.
Regarding reason #1, in The Sunless Citadel, the first adventure in Tales from the Yawning Portal, there party has a chance to rescue a gnome captured by goblins, who can choose to accompany the players.
This gnome isn't a full player character, and isn't very tough, so I'd play him as keeping back and only taking a stab at enemies with a borrowed dagger when absolutely necessary. He can heal (like a L2 Cleric), but with limited spell slots he often came off as useless. He didn't really earn his keep until he saved a downed player character by dragging them out of combat before casting a healing spell, and even then the players (well, one specifically) only begrudgingly accepted his presence.
For my final point, in our most recent dungeon I introduced basically a GMPC that I intended mostly to be that other adventurer that happens to be adventuring in the same place at the same time as the party, that they could bump into here and there but would stay out of each other's way. When half of the group couldn't make it to a recent session, I brought this NPC as an ally to round out the group and give them confidence.
I unfortunately made them rather complicated, and had to take extra table time during combat to check class features and look up a couple of spells. Though the players were grateful for the help in combat, I could see in their expressions that they would have preferred things to be moving faster. I haven't yet solved this for myself, but being aware of the problem will make it easier to avoid this issue in the future.
Please see other questions about GMPCs as explanation for item #2, railroading for item #3, and the other great answers for #4.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You made a very nice point about how the acting out may have happened, so I pulled it into a bullet to highlight that point. (+1 in any case, nicely presented answer)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Would the downvoters mind giving advice on how this answer could be improved?
$endgroup$
– aherocalledFrog
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
What you are running in to here may be a result of a change in norms on this site that is discussed in this meta Q&A.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Figure out how to make the NPC less distracting
The other two answers are great, but as described it sounds like a social problem bleeding into the game.
Your player is frustrated and no one else seems to notice or care.
The game gives them agency that they don't have socially, so they
used what they had to remove their frustration.Without knowing more about the details of the game session, the best solution is probably to ask the frustrated player, then the whole table, how to resolve the issue.
In-game, I think you handled it right. The other players should have a choice in at least attempting to stop NPC murder. But it sounds like there is a root cause that needs investigation.
As general advice for not making your NPCs targets for murder:
- NPCs need to be useful. An NPC who isn't pulling their weight is luggage, not a person.
- NPCs can't be too useful. Assistance doesn't mean doing things for the players. Especially in combat. Combat NPCs should fill a missing role, and never outshine a player in their established role.
The players are the decision makers. Hopefully your rescued prince, despite being royalty, knows when to shut up and let the professional adventurers decide how to escape the bad situation.- Murder has consequences. There should be in-game motivations for characters to not murder someone, even if they want that someone to die.
- NPCs shouldn't be complicated. Player Characters have a lot of stats and features. It's already a full time job managing the world and monsters, don't slow things down with a character complex enough to be someone's full time job.
I've recently come across issues with my players finding NPCs bothersome.
Regarding reason #1, in The Sunless Citadel, the first adventure in Tales from the Yawning Portal, there party has a chance to rescue a gnome captured by goblins, who can choose to accompany the players.
This gnome isn't a full player character, and isn't very tough, so I'd play him as keeping back and only taking a stab at enemies with a borrowed dagger when absolutely necessary. He can heal (like a L2 Cleric), but with limited spell slots he often came off as useless. He didn't really earn his keep until he saved a downed player character by dragging them out of combat before casting a healing spell, and even then the players (well, one specifically) only begrudgingly accepted his presence.
For my final point, in our most recent dungeon I introduced basically a GMPC that I intended mostly to be that other adventurer that happens to be adventuring in the same place at the same time as the party, that they could bump into here and there but would stay out of each other's way. When half of the group couldn't make it to a recent session, I brought this NPC as an ally to round out the group and give them confidence.
I unfortunately made them rather complicated, and had to take extra table time during combat to check class features and look up a couple of spells. Though the players were grateful for the help in combat, I could see in their expressions that they would have preferred things to be moving faster. I haven't yet solved this for myself, but being aware of the problem will make it easier to avoid this issue in the future.
Please see other questions about GMPCs as explanation for item #2, railroading for item #3, and the other great answers for #4.
$endgroup$
Figure out how to make the NPC less distracting
The other two answers are great, but as described it sounds like a social problem bleeding into the game.
Your player is frustrated and no one else seems to notice or care.
The game gives them agency that they don't have socially, so they
used what they had to remove their frustration.Without knowing more about the details of the game session, the best solution is probably to ask the frustrated player, then the whole table, how to resolve the issue.
In-game, I think you handled it right. The other players should have a choice in at least attempting to stop NPC murder. But it sounds like there is a root cause that needs investigation.
As general advice for not making your NPCs targets for murder:
- NPCs need to be useful. An NPC who isn't pulling their weight is luggage, not a person.
- NPCs can't be too useful. Assistance doesn't mean doing things for the players. Especially in combat. Combat NPCs should fill a missing role, and never outshine a player in their established role.
The players are the decision makers. Hopefully your rescued prince, despite being royalty, knows when to shut up and let the professional adventurers decide how to escape the bad situation.- Murder has consequences. There should be in-game motivations for characters to not murder someone, even if they want that someone to die.
- NPCs shouldn't be complicated. Player Characters have a lot of stats and features. It's already a full time job managing the world and monsters, don't slow things down with a character complex enough to be someone's full time job.
I've recently come across issues with my players finding NPCs bothersome.
Regarding reason #1, in The Sunless Citadel, the first adventure in Tales from the Yawning Portal, there party has a chance to rescue a gnome captured by goblins, who can choose to accompany the players.
This gnome isn't a full player character, and isn't very tough, so I'd play him as keeping back and only taking a stab at enemies with a borrowed dagger when absolutely necessary. He can heal (like a L2 Cleric), but with limited spell slots he often came off as useless. He didn't really earn his keep until he saved a downed player character by dragging them out of combat before casting a healing spell, and even then the players (well, one specifically) only begrudgingly accepted his presence.
For my final point, in our most recent dungeon I introduced basically a GMPC that I intended mostly to be that other adventurer that happens to be adventuring in the same place at the same time as the party, that they could bump into here and there but would stay out of each other's way. When half of the group couldn't make it to a recent session, I brought this NPC as an ally to round out the group and give them confidence.
I unfortunately made them rather complicated, and had to take extra table time during combat to check class features and look up a couple of spells. Though the players were grateful for the help in combat, I could see in their expressions that they would have preferred things to be moving faster. I haven't yet solved this for myself, but being aware of the problem will make it easier to avoid this issue in the future.
Please see other questions about GMPCs as explanation for item #2, railroading for item #3, and the other great answers for #4.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
aherocalledFrogaherocalledFrog
1,5528 silver badges10 bronze badges
1,5528 silver badges10 bronze badges
$begingroup$
You made a very nice point about how the acting out may have happened, so I pulled it into a bullet to highlight that point. (+1 in any case, nicely presented answer)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Would the downvoters mind giving advice on how this answer could be improved?
$endgroup$
– aherocalledFrog
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
What you are running in to here may be a result of a change in norms on this site that is discussed in this meta Q&A.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You made a very nice point about how the acting out may have happened, so I pulled it into a bullet to highlight that point. (+1 in any case, nicely presented answer)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Would the downvoters mind giving advice on how this answer could be improved?
$endgroup$
– aherocalledFrog
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
What you are running in to here may be a result of a change in norms on this site that is discussed in this meta Q&A.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
You made a very nice point about how the acting out may have happened, so I pulled it into a bullet to highlight that point. (+1 in any case, nicely presented answer)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
You made a very nice point about how the acting out may have happened, so I pulled it into a bullet to highlight that point. (+1 in any case, nicely presented answer)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Would the downvoters mind giving advice on how this answer could be improved?
$endgroup$
– aherocalledFrog
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Would the downvoters mind giving advice on how this answer could be improved?
$endgroup$
– aherocalledFrog
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
What you are running in to here may be a result of a change in norms on this site that is discussed in this meta Q&A.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
What you are running in to here may be a result of a change in norms on this site that is discussed in this meta Q&A.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Stop
This is an out-of-game problem with the players (including the DM), it needs an out-of-game solution. Stop the game, talk it out, come to an agreement and then start the game again.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Stop
This is an out-of-game problem with the players (including the DM), it needs an out-of-game solution. Stop the game, talk it out, come to an agreement and then start the game again.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Stop
This is an out-of-game problem with the players (including the DM), it needs an out-of-game solution. Stop the game, talk it out, come to an agreement and then start the game again.
$endgroup$
Stop
This is an out-of-game problem with the players (including the DM), it needs an out-of-game solution. Stop the game, talk it out, come to an agreement and then start the game again.
answered 1 hour ago
Dale MDale M
121k26 gold badges315 silver badges535 bronze badges
121k26 gold badges315 silver badges535 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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– NautArch
9 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Related and possible duplicate of How do I get my PCs to not be a much of murderous cretins
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Related on How can I impose consequences when PCs commit severe crimes?, How to handle a player who doesn't believe actions are a problem for GM and party?, and How can I make sure my player's decisions have consequences?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Personally, I think you did better than some DMs which would have just given +3 Plot Armor to the NPC.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's a different player. The player here is generally more passive aggressive than aggressive.
$endgroup$
– Gwideon
6 hours ago