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Checking a beta regression model via glmmTMB with DHARMa package


Fitting a model using glmmTMBDispersion value with glmmTMB versus mgcv::gam()Can you use glmmTMB to simultaneously model offsets and zero-inflation?Residuals still zero inflated after running zero-inflated poisson mixed effect model with glmmTMBassessing glmmTMB hurdle model fit using DHARMa scaled residual plot






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








3












$begingroup$


I would like some clarification whether my model is well specified or not (since I do not have much experience with Beta regression models).



My variable is the percentual of dirth area in the denture. For every pacient, the dentist applied a special product in either left or right side on the denture (leaving the other side as placebo) in order to remove dirth area.



After that, he calculate the total area of each side of the denture, and the total dirth area for each side.



I need to test whether the product is efficient to remove the dirth.



My initial model (prop.bio is the proportion of dirth area):



library(glmmTMB) 
m1 <- glmmTMB(prop.bio ~ Product*Side + (1|Pacients), data, family=list(family="beta",link="logit"))


My final model (after anova test):



m1.f <- glmmTMB(prop.bio ~ Product + (1|Pacients), data, family=list(family="beta",link="logit"))


My residual diagnosis using DHARMa:



library(DHARMa)
res = simulateResiduals(m1.f)
plot(res, rank = T)


enter image description here



According to my reading on DHARMa vignette, my model could be wrong based on the right plot. What should I do then? (Is my model specification wrong?)



Thanks in advance!



Data:



structure(list(Pacients = structure(c(5L, 6L, 2L, 11L, 26L, 29L, 
20L, 24L, 8L, 14L, 19L, 7L, 13L, 4L, 3L, 5L, 6L, 2L, 11L, 26L,
29L, 20L, 24L, 8L, 14L, 19L, 7L, 13L, 4L, 3L, 23L, 25L, 12L,
21L, 10L, 22L, 18L, 27L, 15L, 9L, 17L, 28L, 1L, 16L, 23L, 25L,
12L, 21L, 10L, 22L, 18L, 27L, 15L, 9L, 17L, 28L, 1L, 16L), .Label = c("Adlf",
"Alda", "ClrW", "ClsB", "CrCl", "ElnL", "Gema", "Héli", "Inác",
"Inlv", "InsS", "Ircm", "Ivnr", "Lnld", "Lrds", "LusB", "Mart",
"Mrnz", "Murl", "NGc1", "NGc2", "Nlcd", "Norc", "Oliv", "Ramr",
"Slng", "Svrs", "Vldm", "Vlsn"), class = "factor"), Area = c(3942,
3912, 4270, 4583, 2406, 2652, 2371, 4885, 3704, 3500, 4269, 3743,
3414, 4231, 3089, 4214, 3612, 4459, 4678, 2810, 2490, 2577, 4264,
4287, 3487, 4547, 3663, 3199, 3836, 3237, 3846, 4116, 3514, 3616,
3609, 4053, 3810, 4532, 4380, 4103, 4552, 3745, 3590, 3386, 3998,
4449, 3367, 3698, 3840, 4457, 3906, 4384, 4000, 4156, 3594, 3258,
4094, 2796), Side = structure(c(1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
2L, 2L), .Label = c("Right", "Left"), class = "factor"), Biofilme = c(1747,
1770, 328, 716, 1447, 540, 759, 1328, 2320, 1718, 1226, 977,
1193, 2038, 1685, 2018, 1682, 416, 679, 2076, 947, 1423, 1661,
1618, 1916, 1601, 1833, 1050, 1780, 1643, 1130, 2010, 2152, 812,
2550, 1058, 826, 1526, 2905, 1299, 2289, 1262, 1965, 3016, 1630,
1823, 1889, 1319, 2678, 1205, 472, 1694, 2161, 1444, 1062, 819,
2531, 2310), Product = structure(c(1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
1L, 1L, 1L), .Label = c("No", "Yes"), class = "factor"), prop.bio = c(0.443176052765094,
0.452453987730061, 0.0768149882903981, 0.156229543966834, 0.601413133832086,
0.203619909502262, 0.320118093631379, 0.271852610030706, 0.626349892008639,
0.490857142857143, 0.287186694776294, 0.261020571733903, 0.349443468072642,
0.481682817300874, 0.545483975396568, 0.478879924062648, 0.465669988925803,
0.0932944606413994, 0.145147498931167, 0.738790035587189, 0.380321285140562,
0.552192471866511, 0.389540337711069, 0.377420107301143, 0.549469457986808,
0.352100285902793, 0.5004095004095, 0.328227571115974, 0.464025026068822,
0.507568736484399, 0.293811752470099, 0.488338192419825, 0.612407512805919,
0.224557522123894, 0.706566916043225, 0.261041204046385, 0.216797900262467,
0.336716681376876, 0.66324200913242, 0.316597611503778, 0.502855887521968,
0.3369826435247, 0.547353760445682, 0.890726520968695, 0.407703851925963,
0.409755001123848, 0.561033561033561, 0.356679286100595, 0.697395833333333,
0.270361229526587, 0.12083973374296, 0.386405109489051, 0.54025,
0.347449470644851, 0.295492487479132, 0.251381215469613, 0.618221787982413,
0.82618025751073)), row.names = c(NA, -58L), class = "data.frame")









share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




















    3












    $begingroup$


    I would like some clarification whether my model is well specified or not (since I do not have much experience with Beta regression models).



    My variable is the percentual of dirth area in the denture. For every pacient, the dentist applied a special product in either left or right side on the denture (leaving the other side as placebo) in order to remove dirth area.



    After that, he calculate the total area of each side of the denture, and the total dirth area for each side.



    I need to test whether the product is efficient to remove the dirth.



    My initial model (prop.bio is the proportion of dirth area):



    library(glmmTMB) 
    m1 <- glmmTMB(prop.bio ~ Product*Side + (1|Pacients), data, family=list(family="beta",link="logit"))


    My final model (after anova test):



    m1.f <- glmmTMB(prop.bio ~ Product + (1|Pacients), data, family=list(family="beta",link="logit"))


    My residual diagnosis using DHARMa:



    library(DHARMa)
    res = simulateResiduals(m1.f)
    plot(res, rank = T)


    enter image description here



    According to my reading on DHARMa vignette, my model could be wrong based on the right plot. What should I do then? (Is my model specification wrong?)



    Thanks in advance!



    Data:



    structure(list(Pacients = structure(c(5L, 6L, 2L, 11L, 26L, 29L, 
    20L, 24L, 8L, 14L, 19L, 7L, 13L, 4L, 3L, 5L, 6L, 2L, 11L, 26L,
    29L, 20L, 24L, 8L, 14L, 19L, 7L, 13L, 4L, 3L, 23L, 25L, 12L,
    21L, 10L, 22L, 18L, 27L, 15L, 9L, 17L, 28L, 1L, 16L, 23L, 25L,
    12L, 21L, 10L, 22L, 18L, 27L, 15L, 9L, 17L, 28L, 1L, 16L), .Label = c("Adlf",
    "Alda", "ClrW", "ClsB", "CrCl", "ElnL", "Gema", "Héli", "Inác",
    "Inlv", "InsS", "Ircm", "Ivnr", "Lnld", "Lrds", "LusB", "Mart",
    "Mrnz", "Murl", "NGc1", "NGc2", "Nlcd", "Norc", "Oliv", "Ramr",
    "Slng", "Svrs", "Vldm", "Vlsn"), class = "factor"), Area = c(3942,
    3912, 4270, 4583, 2406, 2652, 2371, 4885, 3704, 3500, 4269, 3743,
    3414, 4231, 3089, 4214, 3612, 4459, 4678, 2810, 2490, 2577, 4264,
    4287, 3487, 4547, 3663, 3199, 3836, 3237, 3846, 4116, 3514, 3616,
    3609, 4053, 3810, 4532, 4380, 4103, 4552, 3745, 3590, 3386, 3998,
    4449, 3367, 3698, 3840, 4457, 3906, 4384, 4000, 4156, 3594, 3258,
    4094, 2796), Side = structure(c(1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
    1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
    2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
    1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
    2L, 2L), .Label = c("Right", "Left"), class = "factor"), Biofilme = c(1747,
    1770, 328, 716, 1447, 540, 759, 1328, 2320, 1718, 1226, 977,
    1193, 2038, 1685, 2018, 1682, 416, 679, 2076, 947, 1423, 1661,
    1618, 1916, 1601, 1833, 1050, 1780, 1643, 1130, 2010, 2152, 812,
    2550, 1058, 826, 1526, 2905, 1299, 2289, 1262, 1965, 3016, 1630,
    1823, 1889, 1319, 2678, 1205, 472, 1694, 2161, 1444, 1062, 819,
    2531, 2310), Product = structure(c(1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
    1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
    2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
    2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
    1L, 1L, 1L), .Label = c("No", "Yes"), class = "factor"), prop.bio = c(0.443176052765094,
    0.452453987730061, 0.0768149882903981, 0.156229543966834, 0.601413133832086,
    0.203619909502262, 0.320118093631379, 0.271852610030706, 0.626349892008639,
    0.490857142857143, 0.287186694776294, 0.261020571733903, 0.349443468072642,
    0.481682817300874, 0.545483975396568, 0.478879924062648, 0.465669988925803,
    0.0932944606413994, 0.145147498931167, 0.738790035587189, 0.380321285140562,
    0.552192471866511, 0.389540337711069, 0.377420107301143, 0.549469457986808,
    0.352100285902793, 0.5004095004095, 0.328227571115974, 0.464025026068822,
    0.507568736484399, 0.293811752470099, 0.488338192419825, 0.612407512805919,
    0.224557522123894, 0.706566916043225, 0.261041204046385, 0.216797900262467,
    0.336716681376876, 0.66324200913242, 0.316597611503778, 0.502855887521968,
    0.3369826435247, 0.547353760445682, 0.890726520968695, 0.407703851925963,
    0.409755001123848, 0.561033561033561, 0.356679286100595, 0.697395833333333,
    0.270361229526587, 0.12083973374296, 0.386405109489051, 0.54025,
    0.347449470644851, 0.295492487479132, 0.251381215469613, 0.618221787982413,
    0.82618025751073)), row.names = c(NA, -58L), class = "data.frame")









    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$
















      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$


      I would like some clarification whether my model is well specified or not (since I do not have much experience with Beta regression models).



      My variable is the percentual of dirth area in the denture. For every pacient, the dentist applied a special product in either left or right side on the denture (leaving the other side as placebo) in order to remove dirth area.



      After that, he calculate the total area of each side of the denture, and the total dirth area for each side.



      I need to test whether the product is efficient to remove the dirth.



      My initial model (prop.bio is the proportion of dirth area):



      library(glmmTMB) 
      m1 <- glmmTMB(prop.bio ~ Product*Side + (1|Pacients), data, family=list(family="beta",link="logit"))


      My final model (after anova test):



      m1.f <- glmmTMB(prop.bio ~ Product + (1|Pacients), data, family=list(family="beta",link="logit"))


      My residual diagnosis using DHARMa:



      library(DHARMa)
      res = simulateResiduals(m1.f)
      plot(res, rank = T)


      enter image description here



      According to my reading on DHARMa vignette, my model could be wrong based on the right plot. What should I do then? (Is my model specification wrong?)



      Thanks in advance!



      Data:



      structure(list(Pacients = structure(c(5L, 6L, 2L, 11L, 26L, 29L, 
      20L, 24L, 8L, 14L, 19L, 7L, 13L, 4L, 3L, 5L, 6L, 2L, 11L, 26L,
      29L, 20L, 24L, 8L, 14L, 19L, 7L, 13L, 4L, 3L, 23L, 25L, 12L,
      21L, 10L, 22L, 18L, 27L, 15L, 9L, 17L, 28L, 1L, 16L, 23L, 25L,
      12L, 21L, 10L, 22L, 18L, 27L, 15L, 9L, 17L, 28L, 1L, 16L), .Label = c("Adlf",
      "Alda", "ClrW", "ClsB", "CrCl", "ElnL", "Gema", "Héli", "Inác",
      "Inlv", "InsS", "Ircm", "Ivnr", "Lnld", "Lrds", "LusB", "Mart",
      "Mrnz", "Murl", "NGc1", "NGc2", "Nlcd", "Norc", "Oliv", "Ramr",
      "Slng", "Svrs", "Vldm", "Vlsn"), class = "factor"), Area = c(3942,
      3912, 4270, 4583, 2406, 2652, 2371, 4885, 3704, 3500, 4269, 3743,
      3414, 4231, 3089, 4214, 3612, 4459, 4678, 2810, 2490, 2577, 4264,
      4287, 3487, 4547, 3663, 3199, 3836, 3237, 3846, 4116, 3514, 3616,
      3609, 4053, 3810, 4532, 4380, 4103, 4552, 3745, 3590, 3386, 3998,
      4449, 3367, 3698, 3840, 4457, 3906, 4384, 4000, 4156, 3594, 3258,
      4094, 2796), Side = structure(c(1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
      1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
      2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
      1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
      2L, 2L), .Label = c("Right", "Left"), class = "factor"), Biofilme = c(1747,
      1770, 328, 716, 1447, 540, 759, 1328, 2320, 1718, 1226, 977,
      1193, 2038, 1685, 2018, 1682, 416, 679, 2076, 947, 1423, 1661,
      1618, 1916, 1601, 1833, 1050, 1780, 1643, 1130, 2010, 2152, 812,
      2550, 1058, 826, 1526, 2905, 1299, 2289, 1262, 1965, 3016, 1630,
      1823, 1889, 1319, 2678, 1205, 472, 1694, 2161, 1444, 1062, 819,
      2531, 2310), Product = structure(c(1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
      1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
      2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
      2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
      1L, 1L, 1L), .Label = c("No", "Yes"), class = "factor"), prop.bio = c(0.443176052765094,
      0.452453987730061, 0.0768149882903981, 0.156229543966834, 0.601413133832086,
      0.203619909502262, 0.320118093631379, 0.271852610030706, 0.626349892008639,
      0.490857142857143, 0.287186694776294, 0.261020571733903, 0.349443468072642,
      0.481682817300874, 0.545483975396568, 0.478879924062648, 0.465669988925803,
      0.0932944606413994, 0.145147498931167, 0.738790035587189, 0.380321285140562,
      0.552192471866511, 0.389540337711069, 0.377420107301143, 0.549469457986808,
      0.352100285902793, 0.5004095004095, 0.328227571115974, 0.464025026068822,
      0.507568736484399, 0.293811752470099, 0.488338192419825, 0.612407512805919,
      0.224557522123894, 0.706566916043225, 0.261041204046385, 0.216797900262467,
      0.336716681376876, 0.66324200913242, 0.316597611503778, 0.502855887521968,
      0.3369826435247, 0.547353760445682, 0.890726520968695, 0.407703851925963,
      0.409755001123848, 0.561033561033561, 0.356679286100595, 0.697395833333333,
      0.270361229526587, 0.12083973374296, 0.386405109489051, 0.54025,
      0.347449470644851, 0.295492487479132, 0.251381215469613, 0.618221787982413,
      0.82618025751073)), row.names = c(NA, -58L), class = "data.frame")









      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I would like some clarification whether my model is well specified or not (since I do not have much experience with Beta regression models).



      My variable is the percentual of dirth area in the denture. For every pacient, the dentist applied a special product in either left or right side on the denture (leaving the other side as placebo) in order to remove dirth area.



      After that, he calculate the total area of each side of the denture, and the total dirth area for each side.



      I need to test whether the product is efficient to remove the dirth.



      My initial model (prop.bio is the proportion of dirth area):



      library(glmmTMB) 
      m1 <- glmmTMB(prop.bio ~ Product*Side + (1|Pacients), data, family=list(family="beta",link="logit"))


      My final model (after anova test):



      m1.f <- glmmTMB(prop.bio ~ Product + (1|Pacients), data, family=list(family="beta",link="logit"))


      My residual diagnosis using DHARMa:



      library(DHARMa)
      res = simulateResiduals(m1.f)
      plot(res, rank = T)


      enter image description here



      According to my reading on DHARMa vignette, my model could be wrong based on the right plot. What should I do then? (Is my model specification wrong?)



      Thanks in advance!



      Data:



      structure(list(Pacients = structure(c(5L, 6L, 2L, 11L, 26L, 29L, 
      20L, 24L, 8L, 14L, 19L, 7L, 13L, 4L, 3L, 5L, 6L, 2L, 11L, 26L,
      29L, 20L, 24L, 8L, 14L, 19L, 7L, 13L, 4L, 3L, 23L, 25L, 12L,
      21L, 10L, 22L, 18L, 27L, 15L, 9L, 17L, 28L, 1L, 16L, 23L, 25L,
      12L, 21L, 10L, 22L, 18L, 27L, 15L, 9L, 17L, 28L, 1L, 16L), .Label = c("Adlf",
      "Alda", "ClrW", "ClsB", "CrCl", "ElnL", "Gema", "Héli", "Inác",
      "Inlv", "InsS", "Ircm", "Ivnr", "Lnld", "Lrds", "LusB", "Mart",
      "Mrnz", "Murl", "NGc1", "NGc2", "Nlcd", "Norc", "Oliv", "Ramr",
      "Slng", "Svrs", "Vldm", "Vlsn"), class = "factor"), Area = c(3942,
      3912, 4270, 4583, 2406, 2652, 2371, 4885, 3704, 3500, 4269, 3743,
      3414, 4231, 3089, 4214, 3612, 4459, 4678, 2810, 2490, 2577, 4264,
      4287, 3487, 4547, 3663, 3199, 3836, 3237, 3846, 4116, 3514, 3616,
      3609, 4053, 3810, 4532, 4380, 4103, 4552, 3745, 3590, 3386, 3998,
      4449, 3367, 3698, 3840, 4457, 3906, 4384, 4000, 4156, 3594, 3258,
      4094, 2796), Side = structure(c(1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
      1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
      2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
      1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
      2L, 2L), .Label = c("Right", "Left"), class = "factor"), Biofilme = c(1747,
      1770, 328, 716, 1447, 540, 759, 1328, 2320, 1718, 1226, 977,
      1193, 2038, 1685, 2018, 1682, 416, 679, 2076, 947, 1423, 1661,
      1618, 1916, 1601, 1833, 1050, 1780, 1643, 1130, 2010, 2152, 812,
      2550, 1058, 826, 1526, 2905, 1299, 2289, 1262, 1965, 3016, 1630,
      1823, 1889, 1319, 2678, 1205, 472, 1694, 2161, 1444, 1062, 819,
      2531, 2310), Product = structure(c(1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
      1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
      2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L,
      2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 2L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L, 1L,
      1L, 1L, 1L), .Label = c("No", "Yes"), class = "factor"), prop.bio = c(0.443176052765094,
      0.452453987730061, 0.0768149882903981, 0.156229543966834, 0.601413133832086,
      0.203619909502262, 0.320118093631379, 0.271852610030706, 0.626349892008639,
      0.490857142857143, 0.287186694776294, 0.261020571733903, 0.349443468072642,
      0.481682817300874, 0.545483975396568, 0.478879924062648, 0.465669988925803,
      0.0932944606413994, 0.145147498931167, 0.738790035587189, 0.380321285140562,
      0.552192471866511, 0.389540337711069, 0.377420107301143, 0.549469457986808,
      0.352100285902793, 0.5004095004095, 0.328227571115974, 0.464025026068822,
      0.507568736484399, 0.293811752470099, 0.488338192419825, 0.612407512805919,
      0.224557522123894, 0.706566916043225, 0.261041204046385, 0.216797900262467,
      0.336716681376876, 0.66324200913242, 0.316597611503778, 0.502855887521968,
      0.3369826435247, 0.547353760445682, 0.890726520968695, 0.407703851925963,
      0.409755001123848, 0.561033561033561, 0.356679286100595, 0.697395833333333,
      0.270361229526587, 0.12083973374296, 0.386405109489051, 0.54025,
      0.347449470644851, 0.295492487479132, 0.251381215469613, 0.618221787982413,
      0.82618025751073)), row.names = c(NA, -58L), class = "data.frame")






      r residuals random-effects-model glmm glmmtmb






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      edited 4 hours ago







      Guilherme Parreira

















      asked 8 hours ago









      Guilherme ParreiraGuilherme Parreira

      1538 bronze badges




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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

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          2













          $begingroup$

          Have a look at the section about glmmTMB in the vignette of DHARMa. It seems to be an issue with regard to how predictions are calculated given the random effects.



          As an alternative, you may try the GLMMadaptive package. You can find examples using the DHARMa here.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Yes. I think you should quote this from the message that appears when you run simulateResiduals(): "glmmTMB doesn't implement an option to create unconditional predictions from the model, which means that predicted values (in res ~ pred) plots include the random effects. With strong random effects, this can sometimes create diagonal patterns from bottom left to top right in the res ~ pred plot"
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Bolker
            3 hours ago


















          1













          $begingroup$

          tl;dr it's reasonable for you to worry, but having looked at a variety of different graphical diagnostics I don't think everything looks pretty much OK. My answer will illustrate a bunch of other ways to look at a glmmTMB fit - more involved/less convenient than DHARMa, but it's good to look at the fit as many different ways as one can.



          First let's look at the raw data (which I've called dd):



          library(ggplot2); theme_set(theme_bw())
          ggplot(dd,aes(Product,prop.bio,colour=Side))+
          geom_line(colour="gray",aes(group=Pacients))+
          geom_point(aes(shape=Side))+
          scale_colour_brewer(palette="Dark2")


          enter image description here



          My first point is that the right-hand plot made by DHARMa (and in general, all predicted-vs-residual plots) is looking for bias in the model, i.e. patterns where the residuals have systematic patterns with respect to the mean. This should never happen for a model with only categorical predictors (provided it contains all possible interactions of the predictors), because the model has one parameter for every possible fitted value ... we'll see below that it doesn't happen if we look at fitted vs residuals at the population level rather than the individual level ...



          The quickest way to get fitted vs residual plots (e.g. analogous to base-R's plot.lm() method or lme4's plot.merMod()) is via broom.mixed::augment() + ggplot:



          library(broom.mixed)
          aa <- augment(m1.f, data=dd)
          gg2 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted,.resid))
          + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
          + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
          + geom_smooth()
          )


          enter image description here



          These fitted and residual values are at the individual-patient level. They do show a mild trend (which I admittedly don't understand at the moment), but the overall trend doesn't seem large relative to the scatter in the data.



          To check that this phenomenon is indeed caused by predictions at the patient rather than the population level, and to test the argument above that population-level effects should have exactly zero trend in the fitted vs. residual plot, we can hack the glmmTMB predictions to construct population-level predictions and residuals (the next release of glmmTMB should make this easier):



          aa$.fitted0 <- predict(m1.f, newdata=transform(dd,Pacients=NA),type="response")
          aa$
          .resid0 <- dd$prop.bio-aa$.fitted0
          gg3 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted0,.resid0))
          + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
          + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
          + geom_smooth()
          )


          (note that if you run this code, you'll get lots of warnings from geom_smooth(), which is unhappy about being run when the predictor variable [i.e., the fitted value] only has two unique levels)



          enter image description here



          Now the mean value of the residuals is (almost?) exactly zero for both levels (Product=="No" and Product=="Yes").



          As long as we're at it, let's check the diagnostics for the random effects:



          lme4:::dotplot.ranef.mer(ranef(m1.f)$cond)


          enter image description here



          This looks OK: no sign of discontinuous jumps (indicating possible multi-modality in random effects) or outlier patients.



          other comments



          • I disapprove on general principles of reducing the model based on which terms seem to be important (e.g. dropping Side from the model after running anova()): in general, data-driven model reduction messes up inference.





          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$

















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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            2













            $begingroup$

            Have a look at the section about glmmTMB in the vignette of DHARMa. It seems to be an issue with regard to how predictions are calculated given the random effects.



            As an alternative, you may try the GLMMadaptive package. You can find examples using the DHARMa here.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$














            • $begingroup$
              Yes. I think you should quote this from the message that appears when you run simulateResiduals(): "glmmTMB doesn't implement an option to create unconditional predictions from the model, which means that predicted values (in res ~ pred) plots include the random effects. With strong random effects, this can sometimes create diagonal patterns from bottom left to top right in the res ~ pred plot"
              $endgroup$
              – Ben Bolker
              3 hours ago















            2













            $begingroup$

            Have a look at the section about glmmTMB in the vignette of DHARMa. It seems to be an issue with regard to how predictions are calculated given the random effects.



            As an alternative, you may try the GLMMadaptive package. You can find examples using the DHARMa here.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$














            • $begingroup$
              Yes. I think you should quote this from the message that appears when you run simulateResiduals(): "glmmTMB doesn't implement an option to create unconditional predictions from the model, which means that predicted values (in res ~ pred) plots include the random effects. With strong random effects, this can sometimes create diagonal patterns from bottom left to top right in the res ~ pred plot"
              $endgroup$
              – Ben Bolker
              3 hours ago













            2














            2










            2







            $begingroup$

            Have a look at the section about glmmTMB in the vignette of DHARMa. It seems to be an issue with regard to how predictions are calculated given the random effects.



            As an alternative, you may try the GLMMadaptive package. You can find examples using the DHARMa here.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Have a look at the section about glmmTMB in the vignette of DHARMa. It seems to be an issue with regard to how predictions are calculated given the random effects.



            As an alternative, you may try the GLMMadaptive package. You can find examples using the DHARMa here.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered 4 hours ago









            Dimitris RizopoulosDimitris Rizopoulos

            10.4k1 gold badge6 silver badges26 bronze badges




            10.4k1 gold badge6 silver badges26 bronze badges














            • $begingroup$
              Yes. I think you should quote this from the message that appears when you run simulateResiduals(): "glmmTMB doesn't implement an option to create unconditional predictions from the model, which means that predicted values (in res ~ pred) plots include the random effects. With strong random effects, this can sometimes create diagonal patterns from bottom left to top right in the res ~ pred plot"
              $endgroup$
              – Ben Bolker
              3 hours ago
















            • $begingroup$
              Yes. I think you should quote this from the message that appears when you run simulateResiduals(): "glmmTMB doesn't implement an option to create unconditional predictions from the model, which means that predicted values (in res ~ pred) plots include the random effects. With strong random effects, this can sometimes create diagonal patterns from bottom left to top right in the res ~ pred plot"
              $endgroup$
              – Ben Bolker
              3 hours ago















            $begingroup$
            Yes. I think you should quote this from the message that appears when you run simulateResiduals(): "glmmTMB doesn't implement an option to create unconditional predictions from the model, which means that predicted values (in res ~ pred) plots include the random effects. With strong random effects, this can sometimes create diagonal patterns from bottom left to top right in the res ~ pred plot"
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Bolker
            3 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Yes. I think you should quote this from the message that appears when you run simulateResiduals(): "glmmTMB doesn't implement an option to create unconditional predictions from the model, which means that predicted values (in res ~ pred) plots include the random effects. With strong random effects, this can sometimes create diagonal patterns from bottom left to top right in the res ~ pred plot"
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Bolker
            3 hours ago













            1













            $begingroup$

            tl;dr it's reasonable for you to worry, but having looked at a variety of different graphical diagnostics I don't think everything looks pretty much OK. My answer will illustrate a bunch of other ways to look at a glmmTMB fit - more involved/less convenient than DHARMa, but it's good to look at the fit as many different ways as one can.



            First let's look at the raw data (which I've called dd):



            library(ggplot2); theme_set(theme_bw())
            ggplot(dd,aes(Product,prop.bio,colour=Side))+
            geom_line(colour="gray",aes(group=Pacients))+
            geom_point(aes(shape=Side))+
            scale_colour_brewer(palette="Dark2")


            enter image description here



            My first point is that the right-hand plot made by DHARMa (and in general, all predicted-vs-residual plots) is looking for bias in the model, i.e. patterns where the residuals have systematic patterns with respect to the mean. This should never happen for a model with only categorical predictors (provided it contains all possible interactions of the predictors), because the model has one parameter for every possible fitted value ... we'll see below that it doesn't happen if we look at fitted vs residuals at the population level rather than the individual level ...



            The quickest way to get fitted vs residual plots (e.g. analogous to base-R's plot.lm() method or lme4's plot.merMod()) is via broom.mixed::augment() + ggplot:



            library(broom.mixed)
            aa <- augment(m1.f, data=dd)
            gg2 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted,.resid))
            + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
            + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
            + geom_smooth()
            )


            enter image description here



            These fitted and residual values are at the individual-patient level. They do show a mild trend (which I admittedly don't understand at the moment), but the overall trend doesn't seem large relative to the scatter in the data.



            To check that this phenomenon is indeed caused by predictions at the patient rather than the population level, and to test the argument above that population-level effects should have exactly zero trend in the fitted vs. residual plot, we can hack the glmmTMB predictions to construct population-level predictions and residuals (the next release of glmmTMB should make this easier):



            aa$.fitted0 <- predict(m1.f, newdata=transform(dd,Pacients=NA),type="response")
            aa$
            .resid0 <- dd$prop.bio-aa$.fitted0
            gg3 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted0,.resid0))
            + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
            + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
            + geom_smooth()
            )


            (note that if you run this code, you'll get lots of warnings from geom_smooth(), which is unhappy about being run when the predictor variable [i.e., the fitted value] only has two unique levels)



            enter image description here



            Now the mean value of the residuals is (almost?) exactly zero for both levels (Product=="No" and Product=="Yes").



            As long as we're at it, let's check the diagnostics for the random effects:



            lme4:::dotplot.ranef.mer(ranef(m1.f)$cond)


            enter image description here



            This looks OK: no sign of discontinuous jumps (indicating possible multi-modality in random effects) or outlier patients.



            other comments



            • I disapprove on general principles of reducing the model based on which terms seem to be important (e.g. dropping Side from the model after running anova()): in general, data-driven model reduction messes up inference.





            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



















              1













              $begingroup$

              tl;dr it's reasonable for you to worry, but having looked at a variety of different graphical diagnostics I don't think everything looks pretty much OK. My answer will illustrate a bunch of other ways to look at a glmmTMB fit - more involved/less convenient than DHARMa, but it's good to look at the fit as many different ways as one can.



              First let's look at the raw data (which I've called dd):



              library(ggplot2); theme_set(theme_bw())
              ggplot(dd,aes(Product,prop.bio,colour=Side))+
              geom_line(colour="gray",aes(group=Pacients))+
              geom_point(aes(shape=Side))+
              scale_colour_brewer(palette="Dark2")


              enter image description here



              My first point is that the right-hand plot made by DHARMa (and in general, all predicted-vs-residual plots) is looking for bias in the model, i.e. patterns where the residuals have systematic patterns with respect to the mean. This should never happen for a model with only categorical predictors (provided it contains all possible interactions of the predictors), because the model has one parameter for every possible fitted value ... we'll see below that it doesn't happen if we look at fitted vs residuals at the population level rather than the individual level ...



              The quickest way to get fitted vs residual plots (e.g. analogous to base-R's plot.lm() method or lme4's plot.merMod()) is via broom.mixed::augment() + ggplot:



              library(broom.mixed)
              aa <- augment(m1.f, data=dd)
              gg2 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted,.resid))
              + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
              + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
              + geom_smooth()
              )


              enter image description here



              These fitted and residual values are at the individual-patient level. They do show a mild trend (which I admittedly don't understand at the moment), but the overall trend doesn't seem large relative to the scatter in the data.



              To check that this phenomenon is indeed caused by predictions at the patient rather than the population level, and to test the argument above that population-level effects should have exactly zero trend in the fitted vs. residual plot, we can hack the glmmTMB predictions to construct population-level predictions and residuals (the next release of glmmTMB should make this easier):



              aa$.fitted0 <- predict(m1.f, newdata=transform(dd,Pacients=NA),type="response")
              aa$
              .resid0 <- dd$prop.bio-aa$.fitted0
              gg3 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted0,.resid0))
              + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
              + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
              + geom_smooth()
              )


              (note that if you run this code, you'll get lots of warnings from geom_smooth(), which is unhappy about being run when the predictor variable [i.e., the fitted value] only has two unique levels)



              enter image description here



              Now the mean value of the residuals is (almost?) exactly zero for both levels (Product=="No" and Product=="Yes").



              As long as we're at it, let's check the diagnostics for the random effects:



              lme4:::dotplot.ranef.mer(ranef(m1.f)$cond)


              enter image description here



              This looks OK: no sign of discontinuous jumps (indicating possible multi-modality in random effects) or outlier patients.



              other comments



              • I disapprove on general principles of reducing the model based on which terms seem to be important (e.g. dropping Side from the model after running anova()): in general, data-driven model reduction messes up inference.





              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                1














                1










                1







                $begingroup$

                tl;dr it's reasonable for you to worry, but having looked at a variety of different graphical diagnostics I don't think everything looks pretty much OK. My answer will illustrate a bunch of other ways to look at a glmmTMB fit - more involved/less convenient than DHARMa, but it's good to look at the fit as many different ways as one can.



                First let's look at the raw data (which I've called dd):



                library(ggplot2); theme_set(theme_bw())
                ggplot(dd,aes(Product,prop.bio,colour=Side))+
                geom_line(colour="gray",aes(group=Pacients))+
                geom_point(aes(shape=Side))+
                scale_colour_brewer(palette="Dark2")


                enter image description here



                My first point is that the right-hand plot made by DHARMa (and in general, all predicted-vs-residual plots) is looking for bias in the model, i.e. patterns where the residuals have systematic patterns with respect to the mean. This should never happen for a model with only categorical predictors (provided it contains all possible interactions of the predictors), because the model has one parameter for every possible fitted value ... we'll see below that it doesn't happen if we look at fitted vs residuals at the population level rather than the individual level ...



                The quickest way to get fitted vs residual plots (e.g. analogous to base-R's plot.lm() method or lme4's plot.merMod()) is via broom.mixed::augment() + ggplot:



                library(broom.mixed)
                aa <- augment(m1.f, data=dd)
                gg2 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted,.resid))
                + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
                + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
                + geom_smooth()
                )


                enter image description here



                These fitted and residual values are at the individual-patient level. They do show a mild trend (which I admittedly don't understand at the moment), but the overall trend doesn't seem large relative to the scatter in the data.



                To check that this phenomenon is indeed caused by predictions at the patient rather than the population level, and to test the argument above that population-level effects should have exactly zero trend in the fitted vs. residual plot, we can hack the glmmTMB predictions to construct population-level predictions and residuals (the next release of glmmTMB should make this easier):



                aa$.fitted0 <- predict(m1.f, newdata=transform(dd,Pacients=NA),type="response")
                aa$
                .resid0 <- dd$prop.bio-aa$.fitted0
                gg3 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted0,.resid0))
                + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
                + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
                + geom_smooth()
                )


                (note that if you run this code, you'll get lots of warnings from geom_smooth(), which is unhappy about being run when the predictor variable [i.e., the fitted value] only has two unique levels)



                enter image description here



                Now the mean value of the residuals is (almost?) exactly zero for both levels (Product=="No" and Product=="Yes").



                As long as we're at it, let's check the diagnostics for the random effects:



                lme4:::dotplot.ranef.mer(ranef(m1.f)$cond)


                enter image description here



                This looks OK: no sign of discontinuous jumps (indicating possible multi-modality in random effects) or outlier patients.



                other comments



                • I disapprove on general principles of reducing the model based on which terms seem to be important (e.g. dropping Side from the model after running anova()): in general, data-driven model reduction messes up inference.





                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                tl;dr it's reasonable for you to worry, but having looked at a variety of different graphical diagnostics I don't think everything looks pretty much OK. My answer will illustrate a bunch of other ways to look at a glmmTMB fit - more involved/less convenient than DHARMa, but it's good to look at the fit as many different ways as one can.



                First let's look at the raw data (which I've called dd):



                library(ggplot2); theme_set(theme_bw())
                ggplot(dd,aes(Product,prop.bio,colour=Side))+
                geom_line(colour="gray",aes(group=Pacients))+
                geom_point(aes(shape=Side))+
                scale_colour_brewer(palette="Dark2")


                enter image description here



                My first point is that the right-hand plot made by DHARMa (and in general, all predicted-vs-residual plots) is looking for bias in the model, i.e. patterns where the residuals have systematic patterns with respect to the mean. This should never happen for a model with only categorical predictors (provided it contains all possible interactions of the predictors), because the model has one parameter for every possible fitted value ... we'll see below that it doesn't happen if we look at fitted vs residuals at the population level rather than the individual level ...



                The quickest way to get fitted vs residual plots (e.g. analogous to base-R's plot.lm() method or lme4's plot.merMod()) is via broom.mixed::augment() + ggplot:



                library(broom.mixed)
                aa <- augment(m1.f, data=dd)
                gg2 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted,.resid))
                + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
                + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
                + geom_smooth()
                )


                enter image description here



                These fitted and residual values are at the individual-patient level. They do show a mild trend (which I admittedly don't understand at the moment), but the overall trend doesn't seem large relative to the scatter in the data.



                To check that this phenomenon is indeed caused by predictions at the patient rather than the population level, and to test the argument above that population-level effects should have exactly zero trend in the fitted vs. residual plot, we can hack the glmmTMB predictions to construct population-level predictions and residuals (the next release of glmmTMB should make this easier):



                aa$.fitted0 <- predict(m1.f, newdata=transform(dd,Pacients=NA),type="response")
                aa$
                .resid0 <- dd$prop.bio-aa$.fitted0
                gg3 <- (ggplot(aa, aes(.fitted0,.resid0))
                + geom_line(aes(group=Pacients),colour="gray")
                + geom_point(aes(colour=Side,shape=Product))
                + geom_smooth()
                )


                (note that if you run this code, you'll get lots of warnings from geom_smooth(), which is unhappy about being run when the predictor variable [i.e., the fitted value] only has two unique levels)



                enter image description here



                Now the mean value of the residuals is (almost?) exactly zero for both levels (Product=="No" and Product=="Yes").



                As long as we're at it, let's check the diagnostics for the random effects:



                lme4:::dotplot.ranef.mer(ranef(m1.f)$cond)


                enter image description here



                This looks OK: no sign of discontinuous jumps (indicating possible multi-modality in random effects) or outlier patients.



                other comments



                • I disapprove on general principles of reducing the model based on which terms seem to be important (e.g. dropping Side from the model after running anova()): in general, data-driven model reduction messes up inference.






                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 3 hours ago









                Ben BolkerBen Bolker

                25.5k2 gold badges69 silver badges96 bronze badges




                25.5k2 gold badges69 silver badges96 bronze badges






























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