Wordplay addition paradoxFarmer needs to get his word across the riverWordplay subtraction paradox9 letter word decompositionA 3 letter word whose permutations are wordsBridge words - word pairs linked by the front and backWhat's the longest concertina word you can find?Venetian word pairs (i.e., sectioned word reversals)Interlaced Word PairsHoliday cookies word attrition [humans only]Holiday cookies word attrition [computers welcome]Chrysanthemum bejeweled with dew dropsFarmer needs to get his word across the river

Operation Unz̖̬̜̺̬a͇͖̯͔͉l̟̭g͕̝̼͇͓̪͍o̬̝͍̹̻

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Wordplay addition paradox


Farmer needs to get his word across the riverWordplay subtraction paradox9 letter word decompositionA 3 letter word whose permutations are wordsBridge words - word pairs linked by the front and backWhat's the longest concertina word you can find?Venetian word pairs (i.e., sectioned word reversals)Interlaced Word PairsHoliday cookies word attrition [humans only]Holiday cookies word attrition [computers welcome]Chrysanthemum bejeweled with dew dropsFarmer needs to get his word across the river






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








5












$begingroup$


There are words from which you can remove a "chunk", leaving a new word. Like this:



 WISHBONE

WI SHBO NE

WI SHBO NE

WI <poof!> NE

WI NE

WI NE

WINE





There are also words that work the other way, for which inserting a "chunk" produces a new word. For example, you can insert the chunk AUTIFI into the word BEER to make BEAUTIFIER.



A "chunk" is a string of consecutive letters. It must consist of at least two letters (no single-letter chunks). It does not need to be a valid English word.






Now, what if I told you there are words from which you can remove a chunk, then insert a different chunk with different letters, and get the original word again?



What the heck am I talking about?!



There are actually thousands of such examples. I'm just looking for a general description of the pattern that creates this strange phenomenon.






(Too easy? Too hard? Try the counterpart subtraction paradox.)










share|improve this question









$endgroup$


















    5












    $begingroup$


    There are words from which you can remove a "chunk", leaving a new word. Like this:



     WISHBONE

    WI SHBO NE

    WI SHBO NE

    WI <poof!> NE

    WI NE

    WI NE

    WINE





    There are also words that work the other way, for which inserting a "chunk" produces a new word. For example, you can insert the chunk AUTIFI into the word BEER to make BEAUTIFIER.



    A "chunk" is a string of consecutive letters. It must consist of at least two letters (no single-letter chunks). It does not need to be a valid English word.






    Now, what if I told you there are words from which you can remove a chunk, then insert a different chunk with different letters, and get the original word again?



    What the heck am I talking about?!



    There are actually thousands of such examples. I'm just looking for a general description of the pattern that creates this strange phenomenon.






    (Too easy? Too hard? Try the counterpart subtraction paradox.)










    share|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      5












      5








      5





      $begingroup$


      There are words from which you can remove a "chunk", leaving a new word. Like this:



       WISHBONE

      WI SHBO NE

      WI SHBO NE

      WI <poof!> NE

      WI NE

      WI NE

      WINE





      There are also words that work the other way, for which inserting a "chunk" produces a new word. For example, you can insert the chunk AUTIFI into the word BEER to make BEAUTIFIER.



      A "chunk" is a string of consecutive letters. It must consist of at least two letters (no single-letter chunks). It does not need to be a valid English word.






      Now, what if I told you there are words from which you can remove a chunk, then insert a different chunk with different letters, and get the original word again?



      What the heck am I talking about?!



      There are actually thousands of such examples. I'm just looking for a general description of the pattern that creates this strange phenomenon.






      (Too easy? Too hard? Try the counterpart subtraction paradox.)










      share|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      There are words from which you can remove a "chunk", leaving a new word. Like this:



       WISHBONE

      WI SHBO NE

      WI SHBO NE

      WI <poof!> NE

      WI NE

      WI NE

      WINE





      There are also words that work the other way, for which inserting a "chunk" produces a new word. For example, you can insert the chunk AUTIFI into the word BEER to make BEAUTIFIER.



      A "chunk" is a string of consecutive letters. It must consist of at least two letters (no single-letter chunks). It does not need to be a valid English word.






      Now, what if I told you there are words from which you can remove a chunk, then insert a different chunk with different letters, and get the original word again?



      What the heck am I talking about?!



      There are actually thousands of such examples. I'm just looking for a general description of the pattern that creates this strange phenomenon.






      (Too easy? Too hard? Try the counterpart subtraction paradox.)







      wordplay pattern






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 8 hours ago









      SlowMagicSlowMagic

      2,0964 silver badges33 bronze badges




      2,0964 silver badges33 bronze badges




















          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          7












          $begingroup$

          I assume that




          "with different letters" means only that the sequence of letters isn't the same, rather than that the (multi)set of letters isn't, because otherwise the thing seems to be genuinely impossible unless there's some sort of lateral-thinking nonsense going on.




          In that case




          D(ESP)ERATE can lose ESP to make DERATE and then gain SPE to make DE(SPE)RATE again. Or R(ESIGN)ED can lose ESIGN to make RED and then gain SIGNE to make RE(SIGNE)D again.




          The general picture here is




          that you have words ABCBD and ABD where A,B,C,D are arbitrary strings of letters. The easiest cases (as above) have B a single letter, but I bet there are some where B is longer. At any rate, you're then removing BC and inserting CB or vice versa.




          [EDITED to add:]




          Yes, B can certainly be longer. For instance, BANYANS can lose ANY and gain YAN or vice versa. Or consider HONEYMOONED; you can lose ONEYMO making HONED and then gain YMOONE to get HONEYMOONED again.







          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I only meant that the sequence of letters isn't the same, not the set of letters used. (It would be truly magical to remove a chunk containing a letter "J", then insert a chunk that does not contain any "J" and expect to get the same original word back again, wouldn't it?) The phrasing was studiously nonspecific to avoid giving any unintentional hints.
            $endgroup$
            – SlowMagic
            7 hours ago


















          5












          $begingroup$

          Are you talking about...




          words that have the pattern "...X(...X)...", where X is any letter and () marks the chunk to remove? For example, you can take NIN out of FANNING to get FANG, then add NNI into the middle of it to getFANNING` again.







          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




















            3












            $begingroup$

            One suggestion



            From




            DECENT




            You can remove the chunk




            EC




            and get




            DENT




            But if now you had the different chunk




            CE




            You can come back to the first word,




            DECENT







            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Creative! (+1) :P
              $endgroup$
              – Mr Pie
              3 hours ago


















            2












            $begingroup$

            Here is one




            HANDSOME, from which you can remove ANDS to get HOME




            and




            add jumbled SAND to HOME to get HANDSOME again.




            Few more are:




            M(ORE)OVER, B(RACEL)ET







            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$




















              0












              $begingroup$

              I'm pretty sure it's easy to understand what the OP is talking about if you've tried to solve this question before. :)



              Solution:




              If the word is [Left][Old chunk][Right], the new chunk must be added from somewhere else, splitting the left or right part into two. Let's say it consists of five parts, as in [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] (I or IV can be empty):

              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][New chunk][II][III][IV],
              [II][Old chunk] = [New chunk][II] ([Old chunk] is made up of [V][II], [New chunk] of [II][V])

              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][II][III][New chunk][IV],
              [Old chunk][III] = [III][New chunk] ([Old chunk] is made up of [III][V], [New chunk] of [V][III])







              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                Ha, thanks for noticing! Yes, these "paradoxical" observations came out of my work on that river-crossing puzzle.
                $endgroup$
                – SlowMagic
                1 hour ago













              Your Answer








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              5 Answers
              5






              active

              oldest

              votes








              5 Answers
              5






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              7












              $begingroup$

              I assume that




              "with different letters" means only that the sequence of letters isn't the same, rather than that the (multi)set of letters isn't, because otherwise the thing seems to be genuinely impossible unless there's some sort of lateral-thinking nonsense going on.




              In that case




              D(ESP)ERATE can lose ESP to make DERATE and then gain SPE to make DE(SPE)RATE again. Or R(ESIGN)ED can lose ESIGN to make RED and then gain SIGNE to make RE(SIGNE)D again.




              The general picture here is




              that you have words ABCBD and ABD where A,B,C,D are arbitrary strings of letters. The easiest cases (as above) have B a single letter, but I bet there are some where B is longer. At any rate, you're then removing BC and inserting CB or vice versa.




              [EDITED to add:]




              Yes, B can certainly be longer. For instance, BANYANS can lose ANY and gain YAN or vice versa. Or consider HONEYMOONED; you can lose ONEYMO making HONED and then gain YMOONE to get HONEYMOONED again.







              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I only meant that the sequence of letters isn't the same, not the set of letters used. (It would be truly magical to remove a chunk containing a letter "J", then insert a chunk that does not contain any "J" and expect to get the same original word back again, wouldn't it?) The phrasing was studiously nonspecific to avoid giving any unintentional hints.
                $endgroup$
                – SlowMagic
                7 hours ago















              7












              $begingroup$

              I assume that




              "with different letters" means only that the sequence of letters isn't the same, rather than that the (multi)set of letters isn't, because otherwise the thing seems to be genuinely impossible unless there's some sort of lateral-thinking nonsense going on.




              In that case




              D(ESP)ERATE can lose ESP to make DERATE and then gain SPE to make DE(SPE)RATE again. Or R(ESIGN)ED can lose ESIGN to make RED and then gain SIGNE to make RE(SIGNE)D again.




              The general picture here is




              that you have words ABCBD and ABD where A,B,C,D are arbitrary strings of letters. The easiest cases (as above) have B a single letter, but I bet there are some where B is longer. At any rate, you're then removing BC and inserting CB or vice versa.




              [EDITED to add:]




              Yes, B can certainly be longer. For instance, BANYANS can lose ANY and gain YAN or vice versa. Or consider HONEYMOONED; you can lose ONEYMO making HONED and then gain YMOONE to get HONEYMOONED again.







              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I only meant that the sequence of letters isn't the same, not the set of letters used. (It would be truly magical to remove a chunk containing a letter "J", then insert a chunk that does not contain any "J" and expect to get the same original word back again, wouldn't it?) The phrasing was studiously nonspecific to avoid giving any unintentional hints.
                $endgroup$
                – SlowMagic
                7 hours ago













              7












              7








              7





              $begingroup$

              I assume that




              "with different letters" means only that the sequence of letters isn't the same, rather than that the (multi)set of letters isn't, because otherwise the thing seems to be genuinely impossible unless there's some sort of lateral-thinking nonsense going on.




              In that case




              D(ESP)ERATE can lose ESP to make DERATE and then gain SPE to make DE(SPE)RATE again. Or R(ESIGN)ED can lose ESIGN to make RED and then gain SIGNE to make RE(SIGNE)D again.




              The general picture here is




              that you have words ABCBD and ABD where A,B,C,D are arbitrary strings of letters. The easiest cases (as above) have B a single letter, but I bet there are some where B is longer. At any rate, you're then removing BC and inserting CB or vice versa.




              [EDITED to add:]




              Yes, B can certainly be longer. For instance, BANYANS can lose ANY and gain YAN or vice versa. Or consider HONEYMOONED; you can lose ONEYMO making HONED and then gain YMOONE to get HONEYMOONED again.







              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              I assume that




              "with different letters" means only that the sequence of letters isn't the same, rather than that the (multi)set of letters isn't, because otherwise the thing seems to be genuinely impossible unless there's some sort of lateral-thinking nonsense going on.




              In that case




              D(ESP)ERATE can lose ESP to make DERATE and then gain SPE to make DE(SPE)RATE again. Or R(ESIGN)ED can lose ESIGN to make RED and then gain SIGNE to make RE(SIGNE)D again.




              The general picture here is




              that you have words ABCBD and ABD where A,B,C,D are arbitrary strings of letters. The easiest cases (as above) have B a single letter, but I bet there are some where B is longer. At any rate, you're then removing BC and inserting CB or vice versa.




              [EDITED to add:]




              Yes, B can certainly be longer. For instance, BANYANS can lose ANY and gain YAN or vice versa. Or consider HONEYMOONED; you can lose ONEYMO making HONED and then gain YMOONE to get HONEYMOONED again.








              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 8 hours ago









              Gareth McCaughanGareth McCaughan

              76.9k3 gold badges191 silver badges295 bronze badges




              76.9k3 gold badges191 silver badges295 bronze badges







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I only meant that the sequence of letters isn't the same, not the set of letters used. (It would be truly magical to remove a chunk containing a letter "J", then insert a chunk that does not contain any "J" and expect to get the same original word back again, wouldn't it?) The phrasing was studiously nonspecific to avoid giving any unintentional hints.
                $endgroup$
                – SlowMagic
                7 hours ago












              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I only meant that the sequence of letters isn't the same, not the set of letters used. (It would be truly magical to remove a chunk containing a letter "J", then insert a chunk that does not contain any "J" and expect to get the same original word back again, wouldn't it?) The phrasing was studiously nonspecific to avoid giving any unintentional hints.
                $endgroup$
                – SlowMagic
                7 hours ago







              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I only meant that the sequence of letters isn't the same, not the set of letters used. (It would be truly magical to remove a chunk containing a letter "J", then insert a chunk that does not contain any "J" and expect to get the same original word back again, wouldn't it?) The phrasing was studiously nonspecific to avoid giving any unintentional hints.
              $endgroup$
              – SlowMagic
              7 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I only meant that the sequence of letters isn't the same, not the set of letters used. (It would be truly magical to remove a chunk containing a letter "J", then insert a chunk that does not contain any "J" and expect to get the same original word back again, wouldn't it?) The phrasing was studiously nonspecific to avoid giving any unintentional hints.
              $endgroup$
              – SlowMagic
              7 hours ago













              5












              $begingroup$

              Are you talking about...




              words that have the pattern "...X(...X)...", where X is any letter and () marks the chunk to remove? For example, you can take NIN out of FANNING to get FANG, then add NNI into the middle of it to getFANNING` again.







              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                5












                $begingroup$

                Are you talking about...




                words that have the pattern "...X(...X)...", where X is any letter and () marks the chunk to remove? For example, you can take NIN out of FANNING to get FANG, then add NNI into the middle of it to getFANNING` again.







                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  5












                  5








                  5





                  $begingroup$

                  Are you talking about...




                  words that have the pattern "...X(...X)...", where X is any letter and () marks the chunk to remove? For example, you can take NIN out of FANNING to get FANG, then add NNI into the middle of it to getFANNING` again.







                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Are you talking about...




                  words that have the pattern "...X(...X)...", where X is any letter and () marks the chunk to remove? For example, you can take NIN out of FANNING to get FANG, then add NNI into the middle of it to getFANNING` again.








                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 8 hours ago









                  DeusoviDeusovi

                  69.3k7 gold badges238 silver badges303 bronze badges




                  69.3k7 gold badges238 silver badges303 bronze badges





















                      3












                      $begingroup$

                      One suggestion



                      From




                      DECENT




                      You can remove the chunk




                      EC




                      and get




                      DENT




                      But if now you had the different chunk




                      CE




                      You can come back to the first word,




                      DECENT







                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$












                      • $begingroup$
                        Creative! (+1) :P
                        $endgroup$
                        – Mr Pie
                        3 hours ago















                      3












                      $begingroup$

                      One suggestion



                      From




                      DECENT




                      You can remove the chunk




                      EC




                      and get




                      DENT




                      But if now you had the different chunk




                      CE




                      You can come back to the first word,




                      DECENT







                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$












                      • $begingroup$
                        Creative! (+1) :P
                        $endgroup$
                        – Mr Pie
                        3 hours ago













                      3












                      3








                      3





                      $begingroup$

                      One suggestion



                      From




                      DECENT




                      You can remove the chunk




                      EC




                      and get




                      DENT




                      But if now you had the different chunk




                      CE




                      You can come back to the first word,




                      DECENT







                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      One suggestion



                      From




                      DECENT




                      You can remove the chunk




                      EC




                      and get




                      DENT




                      But if now you had the different chunk




                      CE




                      You can come back to the first word,




                      DECENT








                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 8 hours ago









                      EvargaloEvargalo

                      3,5151 gold badge10 silver badges27 bronze badges




                      3,5151 gold badge10 silver badges27 bronze badges











                      • $begingroup$
                        Creative! (+1) :P
                        $endgroup$
                        – Mr Pie
                        3 hours ago
















                      • $begingroup$
                        Creative! (+1) :P
                        $endgroup$
                        – Mr Pie
                        3 hours ago















                      $begingroup$
                      Creative! (+1) :P
                      $endgroup$
                      – Mr Pie
                      3 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      Creative! (+1) :P
                      $endgroup$
                      – Mr Pie
                      3 hours ago











                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      Here is one




                      HANDSOME, from which you can remove ANDS to get HOME




                      and




                      add jumbled SAND to HOME to get HANDSOME again.




                      Few more are:




                      M(ORE)OVER, B(RACEL)ET







                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$

















                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        Here is one




                        HANDSOME, from which you can remove ANDS to get HOME




                        and




                        add jumbled SAND to HOME to get HANDSOME again.




                        Few more are:




                        M(ORE)OVER, B(RACEL)ET







                        share|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$















                          2












                          2








                          2





                          $begingroup$

                          Here is one




                          HANDSOME, from which you can remove ANDS to get HOME




                          and




                          add jumbled SAND to HOME to get HANDSOME again.




                          Few more are:




                          M(ORE)OVER, B(RACEL)ET







                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          Here is one




                          HANDSOME, from which you can remove ANDS to get HOME




                          and




                          add jumbled SAND to HOME to get HANDSOME again.




                          Few more are:




                          M(ORE)OVER, B(RACEL)ET








                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 5 hours ago









                          Mea Culpa NayMea Culpa Nay

                          6,7251 gold badge6 silver badges39 bronze badges




                          6,7251 gold badge6 silver badges39 bronze badges





















                              0












                              $begingroup$

                              I'm pretty sure it's easy to understand what the OP is talking about if you've tried to solve this question before. :)



                              Solution:




                              If the word is [Left][Old chunk][Right], the new chunk must be added from somewhere else, splitting the left or right part into two. Let's say it consists of five parts, as in [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] (I or IV can be empty):

                              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][New chunk][II][III][IV],
                              [II][Old chunk] = [New chunk][II] ([Old chunk] is made up of [V][II], [New chunk] of [II][V])

                              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][II][III][New chunk][IV],
                              [Old chunk][III] = [III][New chunk] ([Old chunk] is made up of [III][V], [New chunk] of [V][III])







                              share|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$












                              • $begingroup$
                                Ha, thanks for noticing! Yes, these "paradoxical" observations came out of my work on that river-crossing puzzle.
                                $endgroup$
                                – SlowMagic
                                1 hour ago















                              0












                              $begingroup$

                              I'm pretty sure it's easy to understand what the OP is talking about if you've tried to solve this question before. :)



                              Solution:




                              If the word is [Left][Old chunk][Right], the new chunk must be added from somewhere else, splitting the left or right part into two. Let's say it consists of five parts, as in [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] (I or IV can be empty):

                              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][New chunk][II][III][IV],
                              [II][Old chunk] = [New chunk][II] ([Old chunk] is made up of [V][II], [New chunk] of [II][V])

                              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][II][III][New chunk][IV],
                              [Old chunk][III] = [III][New chunk] ([Old chunk] is made up of [III][V], [New chunk] of [V][III])







                              share|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$












                              • $begingroup$
                                Ha, thanks for noticing! Yes, these "paradoxical" observations came out of my work on that river-crossing puzzle.
                                $endgroup$
                                – SlowMagic
                                1 hour ago













                              0












                              0








                              0





                              $begingroup$

                              I'm pretty sure it's easy to understand what the OP is talking about if you've tried to solve this question before. :)



                              Solution:




                              If the word is [Left][Old chunk][Right], the new chunk must be added from somewhere else, splitting the left or right part into two. Let's say it consists of five parts, as in [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] (I or IV can be empty):

                              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][New chunk][II][III][IV],
                              [II][Old chunk] = [New chunk][II] ([Old chunk] is made up of [V][II], [New chunk] of [II][V])

                              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][II][III][New chunk][IV],
                              [Old chunk][III] = [III][New chunk] ([Old chunk] is made up of [III][V], [New chunk] of [V][III])







                              share|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$



                              I'm pretty sure it's easy to understand what the OP is talking about if you've tried to solve this question before. :)



                              Solution:




                              If the word is [Left][Old chunk][Right], the new chunk must be added from somewhere else, splitting the left or right part into two. Let's say it consists of five parts, as in [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] (I or IV can be empty):

                              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][New chunk][II][III][IV],
                              [II][Old chunk] = [New chunk][II] ([Old chunk] is made up of [V][II], [New chunk] of [II][V])

                              If [I][II][Old chunk][III][IV] = [I][II][III][New chunk][IV],
                              [Old chunk][III] = [III][New chunk] ([Old chunk] is made up of [III][V], [New chunk] of [V][III])








                              share|improve this answer














                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer








                              edited 2 hours ago

























                              answered 3 hours ago









                              NautilusNautilus

                              4,1126 silver badges26 bronze badges




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                              • $begingroup$
                                Ha, thanks for noticing! Yes, these "paradoxical" observations came out of my work on that river-crossing puzzle.
                                $endgroup$
                                – SlowMagic
                                1 hour ago
















                              • $begingroup$
                                Ha, thanks for noticing! Yes, these "paradoxical" observations came out of my work on that river-crossing puzzle.
                                $endgroup$
                                – SlowMagic
                                1 hour ago















                              $begingroup$
                              Ha, thanks for noticing! Yes, these "paradoxical" observations came out of my work on that river-crossing puzzle.
                              $endgroup$
                              – SlowMagic
                              1 hour ago




                              $begingroup$
                              Ha, thanks for noticing! Yes, these "paradoxical" observations came out of my work on that river-crossing puzzle.
                              $endgroup$
                              – SlowMagic
                              1 hour ago

















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