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Increasing muscle power without increasing volume
How would a strong humanoid heal from muscle injuryCharacter's super power is super speedKeeping secret the power to create anything?How magically increasing external muscle strength will influence common activities like running?Armor increasing strengthAvoiding muscle atrophy from muscle injuryDifferentiating a Power from Dr. ManhattanWhat could a person able to re-arrange their muscle strength accomplish?Inhaling vastly more air than one's lung volumeHow long to recover from muscle atrophy?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
Some of you may know my mutant thread, and guess what? It's back.
I'm wondering if there is any biological means to improve muscular power without greatly increasing the volume of said muscle.
My conundrum is that I have some mutants easily able to lift 6 tons (and more - as in lift above their head and carry around), but that look like normals, albeit athletics, humans. On the other hand, the human world record for bench-pressing is around 320kg1 and the holder is already humongous.2
Is there any way (apart from handwavium) to increase muscle power and retain a normal human shape?
What I'm looking for/How I'll rank answers:
- Only biological, science-based explanations please. No mechanical augmentation, something that can reasonnably happen inside a "human-ish" body (so please, no nuclear fusion to power your super muscles).
- The energy expenditure is overlooked, but other factors such as resistance (to avoid this person tearing itself up) would be nice.
- If it's not possible, explaining why would also help.
1: From the top of my head, feel free to correct me if there is any mistakes.
2:And yes, Batman bench-pressing 1-ton is clearly inhuman, stop pretending this guy is not a mutant in some way.
Addendum: Of course, lifting capacity does not equal strength. But it is hard to exactly describe the physical raw power of someone. Lifting is used here as a common denominator for everyone to just show the order of magnitude involved.
science-based biology super-powers
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Some of you may know my mutant thread, and guess what? It's back.
I'm wondering if there is any biological means to improve muscular power without greatly increasing the volume of said muscle.
My conundrum is that I have some mutants easily able to lift 6 tons (and more - as in lift above their head and carry around), but that look like normals, albeit athletics, humans. On the other hand, the human world record for bench-pressing is around 320kg1 and the holder is already humongous.2
Is there any way (apart from handwavium) to increase muscle power and retain a normal human shape?
What I'm looking for/How I'll rank answers:
- Only biological, science-based explanations please. No mechanical augmentation, something that can reasonnably happen inside a "human-ish" body (so please, no nuclear fusion to power your super muscles).
- The energy expenditure is overlooked, but other factors such as resistance (to avoid this person tearing itself up) would be nice.
- If it's not possible, explaining why would also help.
1: From the top of my head, feel free to correct me if there is any mistakes.
2:And yes, Batman bench-pressing 1-ton is clearly inhuman, stop pretending this guy is not a mutant in some way.
Addendum: Of course, lifting capacity does not equal strength. But it is hard to exactly describe the physical raw power of someone. Lifting is used here as a common denominator for everyone to just show the order of magnitude involved.
science-based biology super-powers
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
In the SF novel "The Legacy of Heorot" by Niven, Pournelle, and Barnes, there are critters that have a special chemical they can squirt into their blood. It has a huge concentration of oxygen and to-be-oxidized-chemical (ATP?). This allows their muscles to operate extremely efficiently for a while. It means the critters can briefly be drastically stronger and faster. The payback is they generate a lot of heat, so need water to cool off after. Not sure of the science so a comment rather than an answer.
$endgroup$
– puppetsock
10 hours ago
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@puppetsock Helpful anyway ;)
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– Nyakouai
10 hours ago
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Specific movements could be more powerful via power magnification, though it can't do too much.
$endgroup$
– Mephistopheles
4 hours ago
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@Mephistopheles Good to know, unfortunately a bit situationnal for my cases. But I'll keep that noted, thanks.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Some of you may know my mutant thread, and guess what? It's back.
I'm wondering if there is any biological means to improve muscular power without greatly increasing the volume of said muscle.
My conundrum is that I have some mutants easily able to lift 6 tons (and more - as in lift above their head and carry around), but that look like normals, albeit athletics, humans. On the other hand, the human world record for bench-pressing is around 320kg1 and the holder is already humongous.2
Is there any way (apart from handwavium) to increase muscle power and retain a normal human shape?
What I'm looking for/How I'll rank answers:
- Only biological, science-based explanations please. No mechanical augmentation, something that can reasonnably happen inside a "human-ish" body (so please, no nuclear fusion to power your super muscles).
- The energy expenditure is overlooked, but other factors such as resistance (to avoid this person tearing itself up) would be nice.
- If it's not possible, explaining why would also help.
1: From the top of my head, feel free to correct me if there is any mistakes.
2:And yes, Batman bench-pressing 1-ton is clearly inhuman, stop pretending this guy is not a mutant in some way.
Addendum: Of course, lifting capacity does not equal strength. But it is hard to exactly describe the physical raw power of someone. Lifting is used here as a common denominator for everyone to just show the order of magnitude involved.
science-based biology super-powers
$endgroup$
Some of you may know my mutant thread, and guess what? It's back.
I'm wondering if there is any biological means to improve muscular power without greatly increasing the volume of said muscle.
My conundrum is that I have some mutants easily able to lift 6 tons (and more - as in lift above their head and carry around), but that look like normals, albeit athletics, humans. On the other hand, the human world record for bench-pressing is around 320kg1 and the holder is already humongous.2
Is there any way (apart from handwavium) to increase muscle power and retain a normal human shape?
What I'm looking for/How I'll rank answers:
- Only biological, science-based explanations please. No mechanical augmentation, something that can reasonnably happen inside a "human-ish" body (so please, no nuclear fusion to power your super muscles).
- The energy expenditure is overlooked, but other factors such as resistance (to avoid this person tearing itself up) would be nice.
- If it's not possible, explaining why would also help.
1: From the top of my head, feel free to correct me if there is any mistakes.
2:And yes, Batman bench-pressing 1-ton is clearly inhuman, stop pretending this guy is not a mutant in some way.
Addendum: Of course, lifting capacity does not equal strength. But it is hard to exactly describe the physical raw power of someone. Lifting is used here as a common denominator for everyone to just show the order of magnitude involved.
science-based biology super-powers
science-based biology super-powers
edited 1 hour ago
RonJohn
15.4k1 gold badge32 silver badges73 bronze badges
15.4k1 gold badge32 silver badges73 bronze badges
asked 15 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
2,5971 gold badge15 silver badges36 bronze badges
2,5971 gold badge15 silver badges36 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
In the SF novel "The Legacy of Heorot" by Niven, Pournelle, and Barnes, there are critters that have a special chemical they can squirt into their blood. It has a huge concentration of oxygen and to-be-oxidized-chemical (ATP?). This allows their muscles to operate extremely efficiently for a while. It means the critters can briefly be drastically stronger and faster. The payback is they generate a lot of heat, so need water to cool off after. Not sure of the science so a comment rather than an answer.
$endgroup$
– puppetsock
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@puppetsock Helpful anyway ;)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Specific movements could be more powerful via power magnification, though it can't do too much.
$endgroup$
– Mephistopheles
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mephistopheles Good to know, unfortunately a bit situationnal for my cases. But I'll keep that noted, thanks.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
In the SF novel "The Legacy of Heorot" by Niven, Pournelle, and Barnes, there are critters that have a special chemical they can squirt into their blood. It has a huge concentration of oxygen and to-be-oxidized-chemical (ATP?). This allows their muscles to operate extremely efficiently for a while. It means the critters can briefly be drastically stronger and faster. The payback is they generate a lot of heat, so need water to cool off after. Not sure of the science so a comment rather than an answer.
$endgroup$
– puppetsock
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@puppetsock Helpful anyway ;)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Specific movements could be more powerful via power magnification, though it can't do too much.
$endgroup$
– Mephistopheles
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mephistopheles Good to know, unfortunately a bit situationnal for my cases. But I'll keep that noted, thanks.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
In the SF novel "The Legacy of Heorot" by Niven, Pournelle, and Barnes, there are critters that have a special chemical they can squirt into their blood. It has a huge concentration of oxygen and to-be-oxidized-chemical (ATP?). This allows their muscles to operate extremely efficiently for a while. It means the critters can briefly be drastically stronger and faster. The payback is they generate a lot of heat, so need water to cool off after. Not sure of the science so a comment rather than an answer.
$endgroup$
– puppetsock
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
In the SF novel "The Legacy of Heorot" by Niven, Pournelle, and Barnes, there are critters that have a special chemical they can squirt into their blood. It has a huge concentration of oxygen and to-be-oxidized-chemical (ATP?). This allows their muscles to operate extremely efficiently for a while. It means the critters can briefly be drastically stronger and faster. The payback is they generate a lot of heat, so need water to cool off after. Not sure of the science so a comment rather than an answer.
$endgroup$
– puppetsock
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@puppetsock Helpful anyway ;)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@puppetsock Helpful anyway ;)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Specific movements could be more powerful via power magnification, though it can't do too much.
$endgroup$
– Mephistopheles
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Specific movements could be more powerful via power magnification, though it can't do too much.
$endgroup$
– Mephistopheles
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mephistopheles Good to know, unfortunately a bit situationnal for my cases. But I'll keep that noted, thanks.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mephistopheles Good to know, unfortunately a bit situationnal for my cases. But I'll keep that noted, thanks.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
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Yes, there is likely a way, though I will admit I'm not sure how much of the desired about 20x difference it will get you. By the time you get into those mass ranges, the strength of the bones, tendons and attachments will likely be as important as, if not more so than, the muscles themselves. Also, as Spoki0 pointed out, technique matters.
That said...
Give them more fast-twitch muscle fibers, and less slow-twitch ones.
See for example How chimps outmuscle humans.
Slow-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain I) are better for endurance tasks, while fast-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain II; in the case of chimpanzees, specifically type IIa and IId) come at a higher energy cost and are better for speed and short-term force. As stated in the linked article,
The researchers found that whereas human muscle contains, on average, about 70% slow-twitch fibers and 30% fast-twitch fibers, chimpanzee muscle is about 33% slow-twitch fibers and 66% fast-twitch fibers.
By running simulations, it was found that this difference of slow-twitch vs fast-twitch fibers resulted in an overall muscle which was 1.34 to 1.35 times as powerful, depending on the exact metric. The researchers performing the study concluded that
These results suggest that the larger fraction of MHC II fibers and the longer muscle fiber lengths characteristic of chimpanzee skeletal muscle will increase their dynamic force and power-producing capabilities overall.
and that
Although our simulations do not reproduce the earlier experimental designs in detail, the close approximation of our results to the 1.5 times average suggests that muscle mechanics—MHC isoform content, in particular—accounts for much, but not necessarily all, of the measured chimpanzee–human performance differential. Muscle “static strength,” defined as maximum isometric force-producing capabilities (Po), is not significantly different between these two species and therefore does not contribute to their performance differential[.]
Therefore, it stands to reason that by tweaking the muscle fiber composition to favor type II, and by increasing the length of individual muscle fibers, you can increase muscle power without a corresponding increase of muscle volume, but at the cost of muscle endurance.
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Even without numbers (to get to the x20), this lead beats "It just works". Having a basis on which to build is better than straight handwave. I'll look into it, thanks for your answer. It will greatly help.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
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You might be able to solve for the bone structure problem by using the same kind of nanoscale structures that Mantis Shrimp use. Not sure what you'd have to do to solve for the attachment points though... phys.org/news/2016-05-mantis-shrimp-ultra-strong-materials.html
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– Morris The Cat
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Strength and muscles
Strength does not inherently correlate with muscle size.
Increasing your neural activation, that is, simply utilizing more of the muscle fibers, can greatly increase your strength without the fibers being significantly larger. Certain people train specifically for this, ex. sprinters, as the increased mass would slow them down again.
That's not gonna get you to lifting 6 tons by itself, but could be a starting point. Very efficient neural activation.
Not all muscle fibers are equal.
Different fibers are specialized at different things. Think heart vs. pecs. While it is very specialized, the estimated bite force for a human is around 135kg. The related muscle is much smaller than other muscles typically associated with those numbers.
While I don't know of any existing muscle fibers in nature that would scale up to 6 tons of lifting in a human, that could be something to explore.
Bones and tendons
As mentioned in another answer, there is more to lifting than simply your muscle. Bones and tendons might not be able to cope with the forces. You wouldn't want your guy grip something hard, and have the tendons to his fingers snap from the force, leaving him unable to grip for the future.
Therefore your chap would need some solid upgrades to his bones and tendons, to prevent the muscles from destroying them with the forces exerted.
Lifting and muscle strength
Lifting strength does not inherently correlate with muscle strength.
Many who do weightlifting notice that if they get proper form, they can lift more. Typically this would be because they are better balanced or activate supporting muscles that help during the lift. It is also safer and better for your body.
That's more of a heads up that even if your guy is super strong, he wouldn't inherently be able to lift super heavy. He might be limited by form, or even hurt himself due to the lack of it.
He'd still beat everyone at bench press though...
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Regarding your part on Bones and Tendons, it's the age old reasonning about "secondary powers" to just survive the more obvious ones. Don't worry, the character I'm asking for is already pretty resilient. (Also, thanks for the options to explore, will take a look. One of the main difficulty I had during researching was that I was at lost as to what I should look for)
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– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
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actually, a very large anaconda might be able to exert 6 tons of pressure, a full size anaconda exerts about 4 tons of squeeze pressure against a large prey animal such as a human
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– Richie Frame
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There have been good answers about fast twitch fibers and better neural activation. Both of those are good but the reason we have slower muscles and why our bodies only activate as few muscle fibers at a time as we do is that both of those are very energy intensive.
So, aside from better bones and tendons, the mutant needs to get oxygen and more (or better) nutrients to the muscles. This can be as simple as better blood flow to the muscles to as complex as completely redesigning the chemical energy system used by the muscles.
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This is true, but OP did specifically say that "The energy expenditure is overlooked" in their ranking of answers.
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– a CVn♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First you would need to define what is "lift". Because I would say that Eddie Hall 500kg is current record.
And with that segue - Eddie in talk with Brian Shaw (another strongman) talked about mental blockade of lifting heavy. That humans can lift even more (anecdotal sample of mother lifting car to save baby) but the brain is preventing them to do that to save from destroying their body (which is very easy as mentioned, both Shawn and Hall, have snapped their biceps. They have literally torn their muscles from bone it was attached to).
When lifting heavy, strongman often sniff ammonia to override part of that blockade.
Eddie Hall talked about sessions with psychologist to overcome that issue. Also how he lifted that 500 kilograms by "being somewhere else". So mental work is more important than physical one.
What would be the biggest enemy of "no more volume" is the bone density. Pulling would relay on muscles and tendons but pushing would also require bones (in first, you use rope, in second a piston). That's the reason why strongmen pull trucks and not push them. The bone might not be able to withstand the force that 6 tons would act upon them.
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Thanks! I rephrased several times and lost some parts. I clarified the lifting part. Also, the mental aspect may help, but 6 tons seems to be still far out of human possibility. The few stories about "mother lifting car to save baby" are somewhat contradictory among themselves, so not sure how to properly analyze them.
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– Nyakouai
14 hours ago
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@Nyakouai As you changed to bench pressing. That is exactly what I had in mind with bones density. This is a pressing, so not only 320 kg is pressing with equal force to pushing it up but you also need to fight with gravity. And with world record I would look at Larry Wheels. He said that his personal best (and many people) are better during training than what they do in competitions because of the environment. The time between tries, sounds, surrounding. Which point to mental comfort of doing certain things.
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– SZCZERZO KŁY
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
My aunt's BF was hit and killed by a drunk driver after stopping to help someone with a flat tire. His parents were coming down the road a little later and saw it. His dad lifted the car so they could pull him out of the wheel well.
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– Hosch250
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hosch250 I do not say they are not real. My problem is: how muscular was the father - truck driver or accountant? How heavy was the car? Was it unbalanced, therefore modifying the strength needed to lift it? By how much did he lift it? I suppose, at least two tires were still touching the ground? Were you there, or is this a story someone told you, possibly from another person's recollection? The lack of precises data make it hard to analyze. There are records, but it's rarely in controlled environment, and therefore hard to put numbers on. Totally believe you, it's just hard to use.
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– Nyakouai
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Today I read about a carbon fiber which can lift 12'600 times of its weight.
A mutant could grow a few such fibers or similar inside their muscles. Note that they also would need stronger bones, this means perhaps a different type of carbon fiber inside the hydroxylapatite structure of the bones.
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That "12,600" is only talking about the fiber itself. It doesn't include things like the support equipment required to generate the electric field that makes the fiber contract. I suspect that once you add that in, you'll get something that's comparable to or even less efficient than normal muscles.
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– Mark
3 hours ago
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I clarified by adding "or similar". The idea is that mutants could grow non-muscular contracting fibers in their muscles. I know this is not strictly biological but why not think a bit outside the box?
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– nalply
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You could start by being a woman :-)
Seriously, a woman can build strength without developing the buldging muscles of the stereotypical bodybuilder. Those are really down to testosterone: the only (or at least the main) way that women get them is by using steroids.
Then you can try being a chimpanzee or orangutan. They're anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human, without buldging muscles.
Still, I doubt that you will get anywhere near to lifting 6 tons, much less carrying it around. The reason is that the materials of the human body - bones, tendons, and the attachments of muscles to them - simply won't take that much strain. Even with what normal/athletic humans can lift, it's perfectly possible to strain muscles & rupture tendons.
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"[chimpanzees are] anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human" Not according to the articles I linked in my answer. Those say about 1.5 times as strong, for equivalent tasks.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Yes, there is likely a way, though I will admit I'm not sure how much of the desired about 20x difference it will get you. By the time you get into those mass ranges, the strength of the bones, tendons and attachments will likely be as important as, if not more so than, the muscles themselves. Also, as Spoki0 pointed out, technique matters.
That said...
Give them more fast-twitch muscle fibers, and less slow-twitch ones.
See for example How chimps outmuscle humans.
Slow-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain I) are better for endurance tasks, while fast-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain II; in the case of chimpanzees, specifically type IIa and IId) come at a higher energy cost and are better for speed and short-term force. As stated in the linked article,
The researchers found that whereas human muscle contains, on average, about 70% slow-twitch fibers and 30% fast-twitch fibers, chimpanzee muscle is about 33% slow-twitch fibers and 66% fast-twitch fibers.
By running simulations, it was found that this difference of slow-twitch vs fast-twitch fibers resulted in an overall muscle which was 1.34 to 1.35 times as powerful, depending on the exact metric. The researchers performing the study concluded that
These results suggest that the larger fraction of MHC II fibers and the longer muscle fiber lengths characteristic of chimpanzee skeletal muscle will increase their dynamic force and power-producing capabilities overall.
and that
Although our simulations do not reproduce the earlier experimental designs in detail, the close approximation of our results to the 1.5 times average suggests that muscle mechanics—MHC isoform content, in particular—accounts for much, but not necessarily all, of the measured chimpanzee–human performance differential. Muscle “static strength,” defined as maximum isometric force-producing capabilities (Po), is not significantly different between these two species and therefore does not contribute to their performance differential[.]
Therefore, it stands to reason that by tweaking the muscle fiber composition to favor type II, and by increasing the length of individual muscle fibers, you can increase muscle power without a corresponding increase of muscle volume, but at the cost of muscle endurance.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Even without numbers (to get to the x20), this lead beats "It just works". Having a basis on which to build is better than straight handwave. I'll look into it, thanks for your answer. It will greatly help.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
You might be able to solve for the bone structure problem by using the same kind of nanoscale structures that Mantis Shrimp use. Not sure what you'd have to do to solve for the attachment points though... phys.org/news/2016-05-mantis-shrimp-ultra-strong-materials.html
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, there is likely a way, though I will admit I'm not sure how much of the desired about 20x difference it will get you. By the time you get into those mass ranges, the strength of the bones, tendons and attachments will likely be as important as, if not more so than, the muscles themselves. Also, as Spoki0 pointed out, technique matters.
That said...
Give them more fast-twitch muscle fibers, and less slow-twitch ones.
See for example How chimps outmuscle humans.
Slow-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain I) are better for endurance tasks, while fast-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain II; in the case of chimpanzees, specifically type IIa and IId) come at a higher energy cost and are better for speed and short-term force. As stated in the linked article,
The researchers found that whereas human muscle contains, on average, about 70% slow-twitch fibers and 30% fast-twitch fibers, chimpanzee muscle is about 33% slow-twitch fibers and 66% fast-twitch fibers.
By running simulations, it was found that this difference of slow-twitch vs fast-twitch fibers resulted in an overall muscle which was 1.34 to 1.35 times as powerful, depending on the exact metric. The researchers performing the study concluded that
These results suggest that the larger fraction of MHC II fibers and the longer muscle fiber lengths characteristic of chimpanzee skeletal muscle will increase their dynamic force and power-producing capabilities overall.
and that
Although our simulations do not reproduce the earlier experimental designs in detail, the close approximation of our results to the 1.5 times average suggests that muscle mechanics—MHC isoform content, in particular—accounts for much, but not necessarily all, of the measured chimpanzee–human performance differential. Muscle “static strength,” defined as maximum isometric force-producing capabilities (Po), is not significantly different between these two species and therefore does not contribute to their performance differential[.]
Therefore, it stands to reason that by tweaking the muscle fiber composition to favor type II, and by increasing the length of individual muscle fibers, you can increase muscle power without a corresponding increase of muscle volume, but at the cost of muscle endurance.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Even without numbers (to get to the x20), this lead beats "It just works". Having a basis on which to build is better than straight handwave. I'll look into it, thanks for your answer. It will greatly help.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
You might be able to solve for the bone structure problem by using the same kind of nanoscale structures that Mantis Shrimp use. Not sure what you'd have to do to solve for the attachment points though... phys.org/news/2016-05-mantis-shrimp-ultra-strong-materials.html
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, there is likely a way, though I will admit I'm not sure how much of the desired about 20x difference it will get you. By the time you get into those mass ranges, the strength of the bones, tendons and attachments will likely be as important as, if not more so than, the muscles themselves. Also, as Spoki0 pointed out, technique matters.
That said...
Give them more fast-twitch muscle fibers, and less slow-twitch ones.
See for example How chimps outmuscle humans.
Slow-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain I) are better for endurance tasks, while fast-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain II; in the case of chimpanzees, specifically type IIa and IId) come at a higher energy cost and are better for speed and short-term force. As stated in the linked article,
The researchers found that whereas human muscle contains, on average, about 70% slow-twitch fibers and 30% fast-twitch fibers, chimpanzee muscle is about 33% slow-twitch fibers and 66% fast-twitch fibers.
By running simulations, it was found that this difference of slow-twitch vs fast-twitch fibers resulted in an overall muscle which was 1.34 to 1.35 times as powerful, depending on the exact metric. The researchers performing the study concluded that
These results suggest that the larger fraction of MHC II fibers and the longer muscle fiber lengths characteristic of chimpanzee skeletal muscle will increase their dynamic force and power-producing capabilities overall.
and that
Although our simulations do not reproduce the earlier experimental designs in detail, the close approximation of our results to the 1.5 times average suggests that muscle mechanics—MHC isoform content, in particular—accounts for much, but not necessarily all, of the measured chimpanzee–human performance differential. Muscle “static strength,” defined as maximum isometric force-producing capabilities (Po), is not significantly different between these two species and therefore does not contribute to their performance differential[.]
Therefore, it stands to reason that by tweaking the muscle fiber composition to favor type II, and by increasing the length of individual muscle fibers, you can increase muscle power without a corresponding increase of muscle volume, but at the cost of muscle endurance.
$endgroup$
Yes, there is likely a way, though I will admit I'm not sure how much of the desired about 20x difference it will get you. By the time you get into those mass ranges, the strength of the bones, tendons and attachments will likely be as important as, if not more so than, the muscles themselves. Also, as Spoki0 pointed out, technique matters.
That said...
Give them more fast-twitch muscle fibers, and less slow-twitch ones.
See for example How chimps outmuscle humans.
Slow-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain I) are better for endurance tasks, while fast-twitch muscle fiber (myosin heavy chain II; in the case of chimpanzees, specifically type IIa and IId) come at a higher energy cost and are better for speed and short-term force. As stated in the linked article,
The researchers found that whereas human muscle contains, on average, about 70% slow-twitch fibers and 30% fast-twitch fibers, chimpanzee muscle is about 33% slow-twitch fibers and 66% fast-twitch fibers.
By running simulations, it was found that this difference of slow-twitch vs fast-twitch fibers resulted in an overall muscle which was 1.34 to 1.35 times as powerful, depending on the exact metric. The researchers performing the study concluded that
These results suggest that the larger fraction of MHC II fibers and the longer muscle fiber lengths characteristic of chimpanzee skeletal muscle will increase their dynamic force and power-producing capabilities overall.
and that
Although our simulations do not reproduce the earlier experimental designs in detail, the close approximation of our results to the 1.5 times average suggests that muscle mechanics—MHC isoform content, in particular—accounts for much, but not necessarily all, of the measured chimpanzee–human performance differential. Muscle “static strength,” defined as maximum isometric force-producing capabilities (Po), is not significantly different between these two species and therefore does not contribute to their performance differential[.]
Therefore, it stands to reason that by tweaking the muscle fiber composition to favor type II, and by increasing the length of individual muscle fibers, you can increase muscle power without a corresponding increase of muscle volume, but at the cost of muscle endurance.
edited 4 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
a CVn♦a CVn
22.4k13 gold badges93 silver badges184 bronze badges
22.4k13 gold badges93 silver badges184 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Even without numbers (to get to the x20), this lead beats "It just works". Having a basis on which to build is better than straight handwave. I'll look into it, thanks for your answer. It will greatly help.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
You might be able to solve for the bone structure problem by using the same kind of nanoscale structures that Mantis Shrimp use. Not sure what you'd have to do to solve for the attachment points though... phys.org/news/2016-05-mantis-shrimp-ultra-strong-materials.html
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Even without numbers (to get to the x20), this lead beats "It just works". Having a basis on which to build is better than straight handwave. I'll look into it, thanks for your answer. It will greatly help.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
You might be able to solve for the bone structure problem by using the same kind of nanoscale structures that Mantis Shrimp use. Not sure what you'd have to do to solve for the attachment points though... phys.org/news/2016-05-mantis-shrimp-ultra-strong-materials.html
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Even without numbers (to get to the x20), this lead beats "It just works". Having a basis on which to build is better than straight handwave. I'll look into it, thanks for your answer. It will greatly help.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Even without numbers (to get to the x20), this lead beats "It just works". Having a basis on which to build is better than straight handwave. I'll look into it, thanks for your answer. It will greatly help.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
You might be able to solve for the bone structure problem by using the same kind of nanoscale structures that Mantis Shrimp use. Not sure what you'd have to do to solve for the attachment points though... phys.org/news/2016-05-mantis-shrimp-ultra-strong-materials.html
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
You might be able to solve for the bone structure problem by using the same kind of nanoscale structures that Mantis Shrimp use. Not sure what you'd have to do to solve for the attachment points though... phys.org/news/2016-05-mantis-shrimp-ultra-strong-materials.html
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Strength and muscles
Strength does not inherently correlate with muscle size.
Increasing your neural activation, that is, simply utilizing more of the muscle fibers, can greatly increase your strength without the fibers being significantly larger. Certain people train specifically for this, ex. sprinters, as the increased mass would slow them down again.
That's not gonna get you to lifting 6 tons by itself, but could be a starting point. Very efficient neural activation.
Not all muscle fibers are equal.
Different fibers are specialized at different things. Think heart vs. pecs. While it is very specialized, the estimated bite force for a human is around 135kg. The related muscle is much smaller than other muscles typically associated with those numbers.
While I don't know of any existing muscle fibers in nature that would scale up to 6 tons of lifting in a human, that could be something to explore.
Bones and tendons
As mentioned in another answer, there is more to lifting than simply your muscle. Bones and tendons might not be able to cope with the forces. You wouldn't want your guy grip something hard, and have the tendons to his fingers snap from the force, leaving him unable to grip for the future.
Therefore your chap would need some solid upgrades to his bones and tendons, to prevent the muscles from destroying them with the forces exerted.
Lifting and muscle strength
Lifting strength does not inherently correlate with muscle strength.
Many who do weightlifting notice that if they get proper form, they can lift more. Typically this would be because they are better balanced or activate supporting muscles that help during the lift. It is also safer and better for your body.
That's more of a heads up that even if your guy is super strong, he wouldn't inherently be able to lift super heavy. He might be limited by form, or even hurt himself due to the lack of it.
He'd still beat everyone at bench press though...
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Regarding your part on Bones and Tendons, it's the age old reasonning about "secondary powers" to just survive the more obvious ones. Don't worry, the character I'm asking for is already pretty resilient. (Also, thanks for the options to explore, will take a look. One of the main difficulty I had during researching was that I was at lost as to what I should look for)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
actually, a very large anaconda might be able to exert 6 tons of pressure, a full size anaconda exerts about 4 tons of squeeze pressure against a large prey animal such as a human
$endgroup$
– Richie Frame
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Strength and muscles
Strength does not inherently correlate with muscle size.
Increasing your neural activation, that is, simply utilizing more of the muscle fibers, can greatly increase your strength without the fibers being significantly larger. Certain people train specifically for this, ex. sprinters, as the increased mass would slow them down again.
That's not gonna get you to lifting 6 tons by itself, but could be a starting point. Very efficient neural activation.
Not all muscle fibers are equal.
Different fibers are specialized at different things. Think heart vs. pecs. While it is very specialized, the estimated bite force for a human is around 135kg. The related muscle is much smaller than other muscles typically associated with those numbers.
While I don't know of any existing muscle fibers in nature that would scale up to 6 tons of lifting in a human, that could be something to explore.
Bones and tendons
As mentioned in another answer, there is more to lifting than simply your muscle. Bones and tendons might not be able to cope with the forces. You wouldn't want your guy grip something hard, and have the tendons to his fingers snap from the force, leaving him unable to grip for the future.
Therefore your chap would need some solid upgrades to his bones and tendons, to prevent the muscles from destroying them with the forces exerted.
Lifting and muscle strength
Lifting strength does not inherently correlate with muscle strength.
Many who do weightlifting notice that if they get proper form, they can lift more. Typically this would be because they are better balanced or activate supporting muscles that help during the lift. It is also safer and better for your body.
That's more of a heads up that even if your guy is super strong, he wouldn't inherently be able to lift super heavy. He might be limited by form, or even hurt himself due to the lack of it.
He'd still beat everyone at bench press though...
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Regarding your part on Bones and Tendons, it's the age old reasonning about "secondary powers" to just survive the more obvious ones. Don't worry, the character I'm asking for is already pretty resilient. (Also, thanks for the options to explore, will take a look. One of the main difficulty I had during researching was that I was at lost as to what I should look for)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
actually, a very large anaconda might be able to exert 6 tons of pressure, a full size anaconda exerts about 4 tons of squeeze pressure against a large prey animal such as a human
$endgroup$
– Richie Frame
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Strength and muscles
Strength does not inherently correlate with muscle size.
Increasing your neural activation, that is, simply utilizing more of the muscle fibers, can greatly increase your strength without the fibers being significantly larger. Certain people train specifically for this, ex. sprinters, as the increased mass would slow them down again.
That's not gonna get you to lifting 6 tons by itself, but could be a starting point. Very efficient neural activation.
Not all muscle fibers are equal.
Different fibers are specialized at different things. Think heart vs. pecs. While it is very specialized, the estimated bite force for a human is around 135kg. The related muscle is much smaller than other muscles typically associated with those numbers.
While I don't know of any existing muscle fibers in nature that would scale up to 6 tons of lifting in a human, that could be something to explore.
Bones and tendons
As mentioned in another answer, there is more to lifting than simply your muscle. Bones and tendons might not be able to cope with the forces. You wouldn't want your guy grip something hard, and have the tendons to his fingers snap from the force, leaving him unable to grip for the future.
Therefore your chap would need some solid upgrades to his bones and tendons, to prevent the muscles from destroying them with the forces exerted.
Lifting and muscle strength
Lifting strength does not inherently correlate with muscle strength.
Many who do weightlifting notice that if they get proper form, they can lift more. Typically this would be because they are better balanced or activate supporting muscles that help during the lift. It is also safer and better for your body.
That's more of a heads up that even if your guy is super strong, he wouldn't inherently be able to lift super heavy. He might be limited by form, or even hurt himself due to the lack of it.
He'd still beat everyone at bench press though...
$endgroup$
Strength and muscles
Strength does not inherently correlate with muscle size.
Increasing your neural activation, that is, simply utilizing more of the muscle fibers, can greatly increase your strength without the fibers being significantly larger. Certain people train specifically for this, ex. sprinters, as the increased mass would slow them down again.
That's not gonna get you to lifting 6 tons by itself, but could be a starting point. Very efficient neural activation.
Not all muscle fibers are equal.
Different fibers are specialized at different things. Think heart vs. pecs. While it is very specialized, the estimated bite force for a human is around 135kg. The related muscle is much smaller than other muscles typically associated with those numbers.
While I don't know of any existing muscle fibers in nature that would scale up to 6 tons of lifting in a human, that could be something to explore.
Bones and tendons
As mentioned in another answer, there is more to lifting than simply your muscle. Bones and tendons might not be able to cope with the forces. You wouldn't want your guy grip something hard, and have the tendons to his fingers snap from the force, leaving him unable to grip for the future.
Therefore your chap would need some solid upgrades to his bones and tendons, to prevent the muscles from destroying them with the forces exerted.
Lifting and muscle strength
Lifting strength does not inherently correlate with muscle strength.
Many who do weightlifting notice that if they get proper form, they can lift more. Typically this would be because they are better balanced or activate supporting muscles that help during the lift. It is also safer and better for your body.
That's more of a heads up that even if your guy is super strong, he wouldn't inherently be able to lift super heavy. He might be limited by form, or even hurt himself due to the lack of it.
He'd still beat everyone at bench press though...
answered 11 hours ago
Spoki0Spoki0
1,4251 silver badge9 bronze badges
1,4251 silver badge9 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Regarding your part on Bones and Tendons, it's the age old reasonning about "secondary powers" to just survive the more obvious ones. Don't worry, the character I'm asking for is already pretty resilient. (Also, thanks for the options to explore, will take a look. One of the main difficulty I had during researching was that I was at lost as to what I should look for)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
actually, a very large anaconda might be able to exert 6 tons of pressure, a full size anaconda exerts about 4 tons of squeeze pressure against a large prey animal such as a human
$endgroup$
– Richie Frame
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Regarding your part on Bones and Tendons, it's the age old reasonning about "secondary powers" to just survive the more obvious ones. Don't worry, the character I'm asking for is already pretty resilient. (Also, thanks for the options to explore, will take a look. One of the main difficulty I had during researching was that I was at lost as to what I should look for)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
actually, a very large anaconda might be able to exert 6 tons of pressure, a full size anaconda exerts about 4 tons of squeeze pressure against a large prey animal such as a human
$endgroup$
– Richie Frame
7 mins ago
$begingroup$
Regarding your part on Bones and Tendons, it's the age old reasonning about "secondary powers" to just survive the more obvious ones. Don't worry, the character I'm asking for is already pretty resilient. (Also, thanks for the options to explore, will take a look. One of the main difficulty I had during researching was that I was at lost as to what I should look for)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Regarding your part on Bones and Tendons, it's the age old reasonning about "secondary powers" to just survive the more obvious ones. Don't worry, the character I'm asking for is already pretty resilient. (Also, thanks for the options to explore, will take a look. One of the main difficulty I had during researching was that I was at lost as to what I should look for)
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
actually, a very large anaconda might be able to exert 6 tons of pressure, a full size anaconda exerts about 4 tons of squeeze pressure against a large prey animal such as a human
$endgroup$
– Richie Frame
7 mins ago
$begingroup$
actually, a very large anaconda might be able to exert 6 tons of pressure, a full size anaconda exerts about 4 tons of squeeze pressure against a large prey animal such as a human
$endgroup$
– Richie Frame
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There have been good answers about fast twitch fibers and better neural activation. Both of those are good but the reason we have slower muscles and why our bodies only activate as few muscle fibers at a time as we do is that both of those are very energy intensive.
So, aside from better bones and tendons, the mutant needs to get oxygen and more (or better) nutrients to the muscles. This can be as simple as better blood flow to the muscles to as complex as completely redesigning the chemical energy system used by the muscles.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is true, but OP did specifically say that "The energy expenditure is overlooked" in their ranking of answers.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There have been good answers about fast twitch fibers and better neural activation. Both of those are good but the reason we have slower muscles and why our bodies only activate as few muscle fibers at a time as we do is that both of those are very energy intensive.
So, aside from better bones and tendons, the mutant needs to get oxygen and more (or better) nutrients to the muscles. This can be as simple as better blood flow to the muscles to as complex as completely redesigning the chemical energy system used by the muscles.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is true, but OP did specifically say that "The energy expenditure is overlooked" in their ranking of answers.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There have been good answers about fast twitch fibers and better neural activation. Both of those are good but the reason we have slower muscles and why our bodies only activate as few muscle fibers at a time as we do is that both of those are very energy intensive.
So, aside from better bones and tendons, the mutant needs to get oxygen and more (or better) nutrients to the muscles. This can be as simple as better blood flow to the muscles to as complex as completely redesigning the chemical energy system used by the muscles.
$endgroup$
There have been good answers about fast twitch fibers and better neural activation. Both of those are good but the reason we have slower muscles and why our bodies only activate as few muscle fibers at a time as we do is that both of those are very energy intensive.
So, aside from better bones and tendons, the mutant needs to get oxygen and more (or better) nutrients to the muscles. This can be as simple as better blood flow to the muscles to as complex as completely redesigning the chemical energy system used by the muscles.
answered 2 hours ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
15.9k21 silver badges55 bronze badges
15.9k21 silver badges55 bronze badges
$begingroup$
This is true, but OP did specifically say that "The energy expenditure is overlooked" in their ranking of answers.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is true, but OP did specifically say that "The energy expenditure is overlooked" in their ranking of answers.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is true, but OP did specifically say that "The energy expenditure is overlooked" in their ranking of answers.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is true, but OP did specifically say that "The energy expenditure is overlooked" in their ranking of answers.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First you would need to define what is "lift". Because I would say that Eddie Hall 500kg is current record.
And with that segue - Eddie in talk with Brian Shaw (another strongman) talked about mental blockade of lifting heavy. That humans can lift even more (anecdotal sample of mother lifting car to save baby) but the brain is preventing them to do that to save from destroying their body (which is very easy as mentioned, both Shawn and Hall, have snapped their biceps. They have literally torn their muscles from bone it was attached to).
When lifting heavy, strongman often sniff ammonia to override part of that blockade.
Eddie Hall talked about sessions with psychologist to overcome that issue. Also how he lifted that 500 kilograms by "being somewhere else". So mental work is more important than physical one.
What would be the biggest enemy of "no more volume" is the bone density. Pulling would relay on muscles and tendons but pushing would also require bones (in first, you use rope, in second a piston). That's the reason why strongmen pull trucks and not push them. The bone might not be able to withstand the force that 6 tons would act upon them.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks! I rephrased several times and lost some parts. I clarified the lifting part. Also, the mental aspect may help, but 6 tons seems to be still far out of human possibility. The few stories about "mother lifting car to save baby" are somewhat contradictory among themselves, so not sure how to properly analyze them.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nyakouai As you changed to bench pressing. That is exactly what I had in mind with bones density. This is a pressing, so not only 320 kg is pressing with equal force to pushing it up but you also need to fight with gravity. And with world record I would look at Larry Wheels. He said that his personal best (and many people) are better during training than what they do in competitions because of the environment. The time between tries, sounds, surrounding. Which point to mental comfort of doing certain things.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
My aunt's BF was hit and killed by a drunk driver after stopping to help someone with a flat tire. His parents were coming down the road a little later and saw it. His dad lifted the car so they could pull him out of the wheel well.
$endgroup$
– Hosch250
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hosch250 I do not say they are not real. My problem is: how muscular was the father - truck driver or accountant? How heavy was the car? Was it unbalanced, therefore modifying the strength needed to lift it? By how much did he lift it? I suppose, at least two tires were still touching the ground? Were you there, or is this a story someone told you, possibly from another person's recollection? The lack of precises data make it hard to analyze. There are records, but it's rarely in controlled environment, and therefore hard to put numbers on. Totally believe you, it's just hard to use.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First you would need to define what is "lift". Because I would say that Eddie Hall 500kg is current record.
And with that segue - Eddie in talk with Brian Shaw (another strongman) talked about mental blockade of lifting heavy. That humans can lift even more (anecdotal sample of mother lifting car to save baby) but the brain is preventing them to do that to save from destroying their body (which is very easy as mentioned, both Shawn and Hall, have snapped their biceps. They have literally torn their muscles from bone it was attached to).
When lifting heavy, strongman often sniff ammonia to override part of that blockade.
Eddie Hall talked about sessions with psychologist to overcome that issue. Also how he lifted that 500 kilograms by "being somewhere else". So mental work is more important than physical one.
What would be the biggest enemy of "no more volume" is the bone density. Pulling would relay on muscles and tendons but pushing would also require bones (in first, you use rope, in second a piston). That's the reason why strongmen pull trucks and not push them. The bone might not be able to withstand the force that 6 tons would act upon them.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks! I rephrased several times and lost some parts. I clarified the lifting part. Also, the mental aspect may help, but 6 tons seems to be still far out of human possibility. The few stories about "mother lifting car to save baby" are somewhat contradictory among themselves, so not sure how to properly analyze them.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nyakouai As you changed to bench pressing. That is exactly what I had in mind with bones density. This is a pressing, so not only 320 kg is pressing with equal force to pushing it up but you also need to fight with gravity. And with world record I would look at Larry Wheels. He said that his personal best (and many people) are better during training than what they do in competitions because of the environment. The time between tries, sounds, surrounding. Which point to mental comfort of doing certain things.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
My aunt's BF was hit and killed by a drunk driver after stopping to help someone with a flat tire. His parents were coming down the road a little later and saw it. His dad lifted the car so they could pull him out of the wheel well.
$endgroup$
– Hosch250
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hosch250 I do not say they are not real. My problem is: how muscular was the father - truck driver or accountant? How heavy was the car? Was it unbalanced, therefore modifying the strength needed to lift it? By how much did he lift it? I suppose, at least two tires were still touching the ground? Were you there, or is this a story someone told you, possibly from another person's recollection? The lack of precises data make it hard to analyze. There are records, but it's rarely in controlled environment, and therefore hard to put numbers on. Totally believe you, it's just hard to use.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First you would need to define what is "lift". Because I would say that Eddie Hall 500kg is current record.
And with that segue - Eddie in talk with Brian Shaw (another strongman) talked about mental blockade of lifting heavy. That humans can lift even more (anecdotal sample of mother lifting car to save baby) but the brain is preventing them to do that to save from destroying their body (which is very easy as mentioned, both Shawn and Hall, have snapped their biceps. They have literally torn their muscles from bone it was attached to).
When lifting heavy, strongman often sniff ammonia to override part of that blockade.
Eddie Hall talked about sessions with psychologist to overcome that issue. Also how he lifted that 500 kilograms by "being somewhere else". So mental work is more important than physical one.
What would be the biggest enemy of "no more volume" is the bone density. Pulling would relay on muscles and tendons but pushing would also require bones (in first, you use rope, in second a piston). That's the reason why strongmen pull trucks and not push them. The bone might not be able to withstand the force that 6 tons would act upon them.
$endgroup$
First you would need to define what is "lift". Because I would say that Eddie Hall 500kg is current record.
And with that segue - Eddie in talk with Brian Shaw (another strongman) talked about mental blockade of lifting heavy. That humans can lift even more (anecdotal sample of mother lifting car to save baby) but the brain is preventing them to do that to save from destroying their body (which is very easy as mentioned, both Shawn and Hall, have snapped their biceps. They have literally torn their muscles from bone it was attached to).
When lifting heavy, strongman often sniff ammonia to override part of that blockade.
Eddie Hall talked about sessions with psychologist to overcome that issue. Also how he lifted that 500 kilograms by "being somewhere else". So mental work is more important than physical one.
What would be the biggest enemy of "no more volume" is the bone density. Pulling would relay on muscles and tendons but pushing would also require bones (in first, you use rope, in second a piston). That's the reason why strongmen pull trucks and not push them. The bone might not be able to withstand the force that 6 tons would act upon them.
answered 14 hours ago
SZCZERZO KŁYSZCZERZO KŁY
18.1k2 gold badges26 silver badges58 bronze badges
18.1k2 gold badges26 silver badges58 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Thanks! I rephrased several times and lost some parts. I clarified the lifting part. Also, the mental aspect may help, but 6 tons seems to be still far out of human possibility. The few stories about "mother lifting car to save baby" are somewhat contradictory among themselves, so not sure how to properly analyze them.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nyakouai As you changed to bench pressing. That is exactly what I had in mind with bones density. This is a pressing, so not only 320 kg is pressing with equal force to pushing it up but you also need to fight with gravity. And with world record I would look at Larry Wheels. He said that his personal best (and many people) are better during training than what they do in competitions because of the environment. The time between tries, sounds, surrounding. Which point to mental comfort of doing certain things.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
My aunt's BF was hit and killed by a drunk driver after stopping to help someone with a flat tire. His parents were coming down the road a little later and saw it. His dad lifted the car so they could pull him out of the wheel well.
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– Hosch250
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hosch250 I do not say they are not real. My problem is: how muscular was the father - truck driver or accountant? How heavy was the car? Was it unbalanced, therefore modifying the strength needed to lift it? By how much did he lift it? I suppose, at least two tires were still touching the ground? Were you there, or is this a story someone told you, possibly from another person's recollection? The lack of precises data make it hard to analyze. There are records, but it's rarely in controlled environment, and therefore hard to put numbers on. Totally believe you, it's just hard to use.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks! I rephrased several times and lost some parts. I clarified the lifting part. Also, the mental aspect may help, but 6 tons seems to be still far out of human possibility. The few stories about "mother lifting car to save baby" are somewhat contradictory among themselves, so not sure how to properly analyze them.
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– Nyakouai
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nyakouai As you changed to bench pressing. That is exactly what I had in mind with bones density. This is a pressing, so not only 320 kg is pressing with equal force to pushing it up but you also need to fight with gravity. And with world record I would look at Larry Wheels. He said that his personal best (and many people) are better during training than what they do in competitions because of the environment. The time between tries, sounds, surrounding. Which point to mental comfort of doing certain things.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
My aunt's BF was hit and killed by a drunk driver after stopping to help someone with a flat tire. His parents were coming down the road a little later and saw it. His dad lifted the car so they could pull him out of the wheel well.
$endgroup$
– Hosch250
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hosch250 I do not say they are not real. My problem is: how muscular was the father - truck driver or accountant? How heavy was the car? Was it unbalanced, therefore modifying the strength needed to lift it? By how much did he lift it? I suppose, at least two tires were still touching the ground? Were you there, or is this a story someone told you, possibly from another person's recollection? The lack of precises data make it hard to analyze. There are records, but it's rarely in controlled environment, and therefore hard to put numbers on. Totally believe you, it's just hard to use.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks! I rephrased several times and lost some parts. I clarified the lifting part. Also, the mental aspect may help, but 6 tons seems to be still far out of human possibility. The few stories about "mother lifting car to save baby" are somewhat contradictory among themselves, so not sure how to properly analyze them.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks! I rephrased several times and lost some parts. I clarified the lifting part. Also, the mental aspect may help, but 6 tons seems to be still far out of human possibility. The few stories about "mother lifting car to save baby" are somewhat contradictory among themselves, so not sure how to properly analyze them.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nyakouai As you changed to bench pressing. That is exactly what I had in mind with bones density. This is a pressing, so not only 320 kg is pressing with equal force to pushing it up but you also need to fight with gravity. And with world record I would look at Larry Wheels. He said that his personal best (and many people) are better during training than what they do in competitions because of the environment. The time between tries, sounds, surrounding. Which point to mental comfort of doing certain things.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nyakouai As you changed to bench pressing. That is exactly what I had in mind with bones density. This is a pressing, so not only 320 kg is pressing with equal force to pushing it up but you also need to fight with gravity. And with world record I would look at Larry Wheels. He said that his personal best (and many people) are better during training than what they do in competitions because of the environment. The time between tries, sounds, surrounding. Which point to mental comfort of doing certain things.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
14 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
My aunt's BF was hit and killed by a drunk driver after stopping to help someone with a flat tire. His parents were coming down the road a little later and saw it. His dad lifted the car so they could pull him out of the wheel well.
$endgroup$
– Hosch250
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
My aunt's BF was hit and killed by a drunk driver after stopping to help someone with a flat tire. His parents were coming down the road a little later and saw it. His dad lifted the car so they could pull him out of the wheel well.
$endgroup$
– Hosch250
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hosch250 I do not say they are not real. My problem is: how muscular was the father - truck driver or accountant? How heavy was the car? Was it unbalanced, therefore modifying the strength needed to lift it? By how much did he lift it? I suppose, at least two tires were still touching the ground? Were you there, or is this a story someone told you, possibly from another person's recollection? The lack of precises data make it hard to analyze. There are records, but it's rarely in controlled environment, and therefore hard to put numbers on. Totally believe you, it's just hard to use.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hosch250 I do not say they are not real. My problem is: how muscular was the father - truck driver or accountant? How heavy was the car? Was it unbalanced, therefore modifying the strength needed to lift it? By how much did he lift it? I suppose, at least two tires were still touching the ground? Were you there, or is this a story someone told you, possibly from another person's recollection? The lack of precises data make it hard to analyze. There are records, but it's rarely in controlled environment, and therefore hard to put numbers on. Totally believe you, it's just hard to use.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Today I read about a carbon fiber which can lift 12'600 times of its weight.
A mutant could grow a few such fibers or similar inside their muscles. Note that they also would need stronger bones, this means perhaps a different type of carbon fiber inside the hydroxylapatite structure of the bones.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That "12,600" is only talking about the fiber itself. It doesn't include things like the support equipment required to generate the electric field that makes the fiber contract. I suspect that once you add that in, you'll get something that's comparable to or even less efficient than normal muscles.
$endgroup$
– Mark
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I clarified by adding "or similar". The idea is that mutants could grow non-muscular contracting fibers in their muscles. I know this is not strictly biological but why not think a bit outside the box?
$endgroup$
– nalply
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Today I read about a carbon fiber which can lift 12'600 times of its weight.
A mutant could grow a few such fibers or similar inside their muscles. Note that they also would need stronger bones, this means perhaps a different type of carbon fiber inside the hydroxylapatite structure of the bones.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That "12,600" is only talking about the fiber itself. It doesn't include things like the support equipment required to generate the electric field that makes the fiber contract. I suspect that once you add that in, you'll get something that's comparable to or even less efficient than normal muscles.
$endgroup$
– Mark
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I clarified by adding "or similar". The idea is that mutants could grow non-muscular contracting fibers in their muscles. I know this is not strictly biological but why not think a bit outside the box?
$endgroup$
– nalply
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Today I read about a carbon fiber which can lift 12'600 times of its weight.
A mutant could grow a few such fibers or similar inside their muscles. Note that they also would need stronger bones, this means perhaps a different type of carbon fiber inside the hydroxylapatite structure of the bones.
$endgroup$
Today I read about a carbon fiber which can lift 12'600 times of its weight.
A mutant could grow a few such fibers or similar inside their muscles. Note that they also would need stronger bones, this means perhaps a different type of carbon fiber inside the hydroxylapatite structure of the bones.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
nalplynalply
2474 bronze badges
2474 bronze badges
$begingroup$
That "12,600" is only talking about the fiber itself. It doesn't include things like the support equipment required to generate the electric field that makes the fiber contract. I suspect that once you add that in, you'll get something that's comparable to or even less efficient than normal muscles.
$endgroup$
– Mark
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I clarified by adding "or similar". The idea is that mutants could grow non-muscular contracting fibers in their muscles. I know this is not strictly biological but why not think a bit outside the box?
$endgroup$
– nalply
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
That "12,600" is only talking about the fiber itself. It doesn't include things like the support equipment required to generate the electric field that makes the fiber contract. I suspect that once you add that in, you'll get something that's comparable to or even less efficient than normal muscles.
$endgroup$
– Mark
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I clarified by adding "or similar". The idea is that mutants could grow non-muscular contracting fibers in their muscles. I know this is not strictly biological but why not think a bit outside the box?
$endgroup$
– nalply
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
That "12,600" is only talking about the fiber itself. It doesn't include things like the support equipment required to generate the electric field that makes the fiber contract. I suspect that once you add that in, you'll get something that's comparable to or even less efficient than normal muscles.
$endgroup$
– Mark
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That "12,600" is only talking about the fiber itself. It doesn't include things like the support equipment required to generate the electric field that makes the fiber contract. I suspect that once you add that in, you'll get something that's comparable to or even less efficient than normal muscles.
$endgroup$
– Mark
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I clarified by adding "or similar". The idea is that mutants could grow non-muscular contracting fibers in their muscles. I know this is not strictly biological but why not think a bit outside the box?
$endgroup$
– nalply
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I clarified by adding "or similar". The idea is that mutants could grow non-muscular contracting fibers in their muscles. I know this is not strictly biological but why not think a bit outside the box?
$endgroup$
– nalply
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You could start by being a woman :-)
Seriously, a woman can build strength without developing the buldging muscles of the stereotypical bodybuilder. Those are really down to testosterone: the only (or at least the main) way that women get them is by using steroids.
Then you can try being a chimpanzee or orangutan. They're anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human, without buldging muscles.
Still, I doubt that you will get anywhere near to lifting 6 tons, much less carrying it around. The reason is that the materials of the human body - bones, tendons, and the attachments of muscles to them - simply won't take that much strain. Even with what normal/athletic humans can lift, it's perfectly possible to strain muscles & rupture tendons.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"[chimpanzees are] anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human" Not according to the articles I linked in my answer. Those say about 1.5 times as strong, for equivalent tasks.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You could start by being a woman :-)
Seriously, a woman can build strength without developing the buldging muscles of the stereotypical bodybuilder. Those are really down to testosterone: the only (or at least the main) way that women get them is by using steroids.
Then you can try being a chimpanzee or orangutan. They're anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human, without buldging muscles.
Still, I doubt that you will get anywhere near to lifting 6 tons, much less carrying it around. The reason is that the materials of the human body - bones, tendons, and the attachments of muscles to them - simply won't take that much strain. Even with what normal/athletic humans can lift, it's perfectly possible to strain muscles & rupture tendons.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"[chimpanzees are] anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human" Not according to the articles I linked in my answer. Those say about 1.5 times as strong, for equivalent tasks.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You could start by being a woman :-)
Seriously, a woman can build strength without developing the buldging muscles of the stereotypical bodybuilder. Those are really down to testosterone: the only (or at least the main) way that women get them is by using steroids.
Then you can try being a chimpanzee or orangutan. They're anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human, without buldging muscles.
Still, I doubt that you will get anywhere near to lifting 6 tons, much less carrying it around. The reason is that the materials of the human body - bones, tendons, and the attachments of muscles to them - simply won't take that much strain. Even with what normal/athletic humans can lift, it's perfectly possible to strain muscles & rupture tendons.
$endgroup$
You could start by being a woman :-)
Seriously, a woman can build strength without developing the buldging muscles of the stereotypical bodybuilder. Those are really down to testosterone: the only (or at least the main) way that women get them is by using steroids.
Then you can try being a chimpanzee or orangutan. They're anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human, without buldging muscles.
Still, I doubt that you will get anywhere near to lifting 6 tons, much less carrying it around. The reason is that the materials of the human body - bones, tendons, and the attachments of muscles to them - simply won't take that much strain. Even with what normal/athletic humans can lift, it's perfectly possible to strain muscles & rupture tendons.
answered 4 hours ago
jamesqfjamesqf
11.1k1 gold badge19 silver badges38 bronze badges
11.1k1 gold badge19 silver badges38 bronze badges
$begingroup$
"[chimpanzees are] anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human" Not according to the articles I linked in my answer. Those say about 1.5 times as strong, for equivalent tasks.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
"[chimpanzees are] anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human" Not according to the articles I linked in my answer. Those say about 1.5 times as strong, for equivalent tasks.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"[chimpanzees are] anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human" Not according to the articles I linked in my answer. Those say about 1.5 times as strong, for equivalent tasks.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"[chimpanzees are] anywhere from 2-6 times stronger than a human" Not according to the articles I linked in my answer. Those say about 1.5 times as strong, for equivalent tasks.
$endgroup$
– a CVn♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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In the SF novel "The Legacy of Heorot" by Niven, Pournelle, and Barnes, there are critters that have a special chemical they can squirt into their blood. It has a huge concentration of oxygen and to-be-oxidized-chemical (ATP?). This allows their muscles to operate extremely efficiently for a while. It means the critters can briefly be drastically stronger and faster. The payback is they generate a lot of heat, so need water to cool off after. Not sure of the science so a comment rather than an answer.
$endgroup$
– puppetsock
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@puppetsock Helpful anyway ;)
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– Nyakouai
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Specific movements could be more powerful via power magnification, though it can't do too much.
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– Mephistopheles
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mephistopheles Good to know, unfortunately a bit situationnal for my cases. But I'll keep that noted, thanks.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago