Can Lightning Lure be used to knock out a creature like a magical Taser?Can you vary how far Lightning Lure pulls the target toward you?Can a creature who has already triggered an opportunity attack choose to stop moving?Does Green-Flame Blade damage the caster if no other targets are available?Do non-flying creatures fall instantly if moved into the air against their will?Can Lightning Arrow and Conjure Barrage be combined?What happens if a creature is killed between its attack and damage rollsIs it possible to use misty step to get in-between two characters?Is Heart of the Storm triggered by spells that may or may not deal lightning or thunder damage?How can one use the Shape Water cantrip offensively?At what point in a creature's movement does an opportunity attack take place?Can a flying creature avoid falling damage by flying just before impact?
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Can Lightning Lure be used to knock out a creature like a magical Taser?
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Can Lightning Lure be used to knock out a creature like a magical Taser?
Can you vary how far Lightning Lure pulls the target toward you?Can a creature who has already triggered an opportunity attack choose to stop moving?Does Green-Flame Blade damage the caster if no other targets are available?Do non-flying creatures fall instantly if moved into the air against their will?Can Lightning Arrow and Conjure Barrage be combined?What happens if a creature is killed between its attack and damage rollsIs it possible to use misty step to get in-between two characters?Is Heart of the Storm triggered by spells that may or may not deal lightning or thunder damage?How can one use the Shape Water cantrip offensively?At what point in a creature's movement does an opportunity attack take place?Can a flying creature avoid falling damage by flying just before impact?
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$begingroup$
Now, before everyone starts in on its a strength save not an attack roll, or as it has a range of 15 feet is not a melee attack:
Yes I've taken those rules into account when asking this.
So under the rules as written this is a strict no from what I can see, and I can live with that, but here is a hypothetical situation:
A creature is fleeing past you at 15 feet, you want to use lightning lure to drag it back and subdue it, it does not take damage till 5 feet away and all other criteria are met, but the lightning lure damage causes the creature to drop below 0 HP.
The question is could the caster drop the cantrip before the lightning damage actually killed the creature?
dnd-5e damage cantrips
New contributor
Pete is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Now, before everyone starts in on its a strength save not an attack roll, or as it has a range of 15 feet is not a melee attack:
Yes I've taken those rules into account when asking this.
So under the rules as written this is a strict no from what I can see, and I can live with that, but here is a hypothetical situation:
A creature is fleeing past you at 15 feet, you want to use lightning lure to drag it back and subdue it, it does not take damage till 5 feet away and all other criteria are met, but the lightning lure damage causes the creature to drop below 0 HP.
The question is could the caster drop the cantrip before the lightning damage actually killed the creature?
dnd-5e damage cantrips
New contributor
Pete is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Are you asking whether you can make it deal no damage or less damage than usual?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Welcome, Pete! I highly recommend you take the tour to learn more about the stack and how we operate. Glad to have you here and hope to see you around :) Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related on Can you vary how far lightning lure pulls the target toward you?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Now, before everyone starts in on its a strength save not an attack roll, or as it has a range of 15 feet is not a melee attack:
Yes I've taken those rules into account when asking this.
So under the rules as written this is a strict no from what I can see, and I can live with that, but here is a hypothetical situation:
A creature is fleeing past you at 15 feet, you want to use lightning lure to drag it back and subdue it, it does not take damage till 5 feet away and all other criteria are met, but the lightning lure damage causes the creature to drop below 0 HP.
The question is could the caster drop the cantrip before the lightning damage actually killed the creature?
dnd-5e damage cantrips
New contributor
Pete is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
Now, before everyone starts in on its a strength save not an attack roll, or as it has a range of 15 feet is not a melee attack:
Yes I've taken those rules into account when asking this.
So under the rules as written this is a strict no from what I can see, and I can live with that, but here is a hypothetical situation:
A creature is fleeing past you at 15 feet, you want to use lightning lure to drag it back and subdue it, it does not take damage till 5 feet away and all other criteria are met, but the lightning lure damage causes the creature to drop below 0 HP.
The question is could the caster drop the cantrip before the lightning damage actually killed the creature?
dnd-5e damage cantrips
dnd-5e damage cantrips
New contributor
Pete is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Pete is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 8 hours ago
Sdjz
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asked 8 hours ago
PetePete
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Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
$begingroup$
Are you asking whether you can make it deal no damage or less damage than usual?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Welcome, Pete! I highly recommend you take the tour to learn more about the stack and how we operate. Glad to have you here and hope to see you around :) Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related on Can you vary how far lightning lure pulls the target toward you?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Are you asking whether you can make it deal no damage or less damage than usual?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Welcome, Pete! I highly recommend you take the tour to learn more about the stack and how we operate. Glad to have you here and hope to see you around :) Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related on Can you vary how far lightning lure pulls the target toward you?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Are you asking whether you can make it deal no damage or less damage than usual?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are you asking whether you can make it deal no damage or less damage than usual?
$endgroup$
– Medix2
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Welcome, Pete! I highly recommend you take the tour to learn more about the stack and how we operate. Glad to have you here and hope to see you around :) Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome, Pete! I highly recommend you take the tour to learn more about the stack and how we operate. Glad to have you here and hope to see you around :) Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related on Can you vary how far lightning lure pulls the target toward you?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related on Can you vary how far lightning lure pulls the target toward you?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, no
While it's a clever idea, there is no way to mitigate damage from lightning lure. There is either damage delivered or no damage delivered.
Damage or no damage, there is no in between
Lightning lure does give you some control in how far you pull it, but it's either going to end up within 5' (and take the damage), or it will not end up in 5' of you and still be up and able to act on it's turn.
Some attacks can reduce a creature to unconscious rather than death
There is a rule for knocking a creature out, but that doesn't apply here because it's only for melee attacks and this is a strength save not a melee attack.
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.
NPC Death Saves?
Another consideration is whether or not your DM has NPCs make death saves. If they do, then this gives some time to stabilize the monster, but it also means you need to make sure NPCs actually die whenever you fight them.
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
If they do decide to go the NPC death save route, they will need to make sure to communicate when they are or aren't doing prior so you aren't left 'surprised' when an NPC gets back up.
As an anecdote, we once had our DM not 'kill' a downed NPC. It had never happened before and it never happened again. And it was a really frustrating experience to learn that we hadn't killed him. If a DM is going to have some NPCs do death saves, that needs to be communicated to the players.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
RAW, it's possible --- but requires GM buy-in
As you point out yourself, the attacker cannot choose to knock out a creature with it because knocking out a creature required the damage to be made as a melee attack. (see Knocking a Creature Out in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The spell's wording says it can pull the target "up to 10 feet", which suggests to me that one could drop the spell before pulling the target to the range where they get shocked, but that doesn't work like a magical taser.
Your GM can of course give you the option to use the spell to deal non-lethal damage. Since you asked for RAW guidance, I will point out this is not just a matter GM fiat changing the rules: monsters and NPCs dying immediately at zero hit points instead of falling unconscious is not a general rule, just an option the GM can invoke at their leisure. Most GMs will invoke it out of habit unless you remind them. If they choose not to invoke it, the monster or NPC is knocked out like a PC and will have to make death saving throws until stabilized or dead, unless it receives enough damage for an instant kill. (see Monsters and Death in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The bottom line is that a GM can allow their players to knock creatures out with this spell while still adhering to strict RAW, but they can also choose not to, with the major caveat otherwise being that the creature will still require stabilization.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good point on the "death saving throws" at 0 HP for a monster, and "attempt to stabilize" by the PC who did this to them. I almost feel like that needs a title, in terms of "here is another way that you can do this" ... my opinion, but your last paragraph has a nice way tp apply the rules to achieve the effect but is almost lost by being at the end. (Your call if you want to revise that).
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
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2 Answers
2
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$begingroup$
Unfortunately, no
While it's a clever idea, there is no way to mitigate damage from lightning lure. There is either damage delivered or no damage delivered.
Damage or no damage, there is no in between
Lightning lure does give you some control in how far you pull it, but it's either going to end up within 5' (and take the damage), or it will not end up in 5' of you and still be up and able to act on it's turn.
Some attacks can reduce a creature to unconscious rather than death
There is a rule for knocking a creature out, but that doesn't apply here because it's only for melee attacks and this is a strength save not a melee attack.
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.
NPC Death Saves?
Another consideration is whether or not your DM has NPCs make death saves. If they do, then this gives some time to stabilize the monster, but it also means you need to make sure NPCs actually die whenever you fight them.
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
If they do decide to go the NPC death save route, they will need to make sure to communicate when they are or aren't doing prior so you aren't left 'surprised' when an NPC gets back up.
As an anecdote, we once had our DM not 'kill' a downed NPC. It had never happened before and it never happened again. And it was a really frustrating experience to learn that we hadn't killed him. If a DM is going to have some NPCs do death saves, that needs to be communicated to the players.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, no
While it's a clever idea, there is no way to mitigate damage from lightning lure. There is either damage delivered or no damage delivered.
Damage or no damage, there is no in between
Lightning lure does give you some control in how far you pull it, but it's either going to end up within 5' (and take the damage), or it will not end up in 5' of you and still be up and able to act on it's turn.
Some attacks can reduce a creature to unconscious rather than death
There is a rule for knocking a creature out, but that doesn't apply here because it's only for melee attacks and this is a strength save not a melee attack.
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.
NPC Death Saves?
Another consideration is whether or not your DM has NPCs make death saves. If they do, then this gives some time to stabilize the monster, but it also means you need to make sure NPCs actually die whenever you fight them.
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
If they do decide to go the NPC death save route, they will need to make sure to communicate when they are or aren't doing prior so you aren't left 'surprised' when an NPC gets back up.
As an anecdote, we once had our DM not 'kill' a downed NPC. It had never happened before and it never happened again. And it was a really frustrating experience to learn that we hadn't killed him. If a DM is going to have some NPCs do death saves, that needs to be communicated to the players.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, no
While it's a clever idea, there is no way to mitigate damage from lightning lure. There is either damage delivered or no damage delivered.
Damage or no damage, there is no in between
Lightning lure does give you some control in how far you pull it, but it's either going to end up within 5' (and take the damage), or it will not end up in 5' of you and still be up and able to act on it's turn.
Some attacks can reduce a creature to unconscious rather than death
There is a rule for knocking a creature out, but that doesn't apply here because it's only for melee attacks and this is a strength save not a melee attack.
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.
NPC Death Saves?
Another consideration is whether or not your DM has NPCs make death saves. If they do, then this gives some time to stabilize the monster, but it also means you need to make sure NPCs actually die whenever you fight them.
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
If they do decide to go the NPC death save route, they will need to make sure to communicate when they are or aren't doing prior so you aren't left 'surprised' when an NPC gets back up.
As an anecdote, we once had our DM not 'kill' a downed NPC. It had never happened before and it never happened again. And it was a really frustrating experience to learn that we hadn't killed him. If a DM is going to have some NPCs do death saves, that needs to be communicated to the players.
$endgroup$
Unfortunately, no
While it's a clever idea, there is no way to mitigate damage from lightning lure. There is either damage delivered or no damage delivered.
Damage or no damage, there is no in between
Lightning lure does give you some control in how far you pull it, but it's either going to end up within 5' (and take the damage), or it will not end up in 5' of you and still be up and able to act on it's turn.
Some attacks can reduce a creature to unconscious rather than death
There is a rule for knocking a creature out, but that doesn't apply here because it's only for melee attacks and this is a strength save not a melee attack.
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.
NPC Death Saves?
Another consideration is whether or not your DM has NPCs make death saves. If they do, then this gives some time to stabilize the monster, but it also means you need to make sure NPCs actually die whenever you fight them.
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
If they do decide to go the NPC death save route, they will need to make sure to communicate when they are or aren't doing prior so you aren't left 'surprised' when an NPC gets back up.
As an anecdote, we once had our DM not 'kill' a downed NPC. It had never happened before and it never happened again. And it was a really frustrating experience to learn that we hadn't killed him. If a DM is going to have some NPCs do death saves, that needs to be communicated to the players.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
74.6k16 gold badges287 silver badges494 bronze badges
74.6k16 gold badges287 silver badges494 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
RAW, it's possible --- but requires GM buy-in
As you point out yourself, the attacker cannot choose to knock out a creature with it because knocking out a creature required the damage to be made as a melee attack. (see Knocking a Creature Out in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The spell's wording says it can pull the target "up to 10 feet", which suggests to me that one could drop the spell before pulling the target to the range where they get shocked, but that doesn't work like a magical taser.
Your GM can of course give you the option to use the spell to deal non-lethal damage. Since you asked for RAW guidance, I will point out this is not just a matter GM fiat changing the rules: monsters and NPCs dying immediately at zero hit points instead of falling unconscious is not a general rule, just an option the GM can invoke at their leisure. Most GMs will invoke it out of habit unless you remind them. If they choose not to invoke it, the monster or NPC is knocked out like a PC and will have to make death saving throws until stabilized or dead, unless it receives enough damage for an instant kill. (see Monsters and Death in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The bottom line is that a GM can allow their players to knock creatures out with this spell while still adhering to strict RAW, but they can also choose not to, with the major caveat otherwise being that the creature will still require stabilization.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good point on the "death saving throws" at 0 HP for a monster, and "attempt to stabilize" by the PC who did this to them. I almost feel like that needs a title, in terms of "here is another way that you can do this" ... my opinion, but your last paragraph has a nice way tp apply the rules to achieve the effect but is almost lost by being at the end. (Your call if you want to revise that).
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
RAW, it's possible --- but requires GM buy-in
As you point out yourself, the attacker cannot choose to knock out a creature with it because knocking out a creature required the damage to be made as a melee attack. (see Knocking a Creature Out in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The spell's wording says it can pull the target "up to 10 feet", which suggests to me that one could drop the spell before pulling the target to the range where they get shocked, but that doesn't work like a magical taser.
Your GM can of course give you the option to use the spell to deal non-lethal damage. Since you asked for RAW guidance, I will point out this is not just a matter GM fiat changing the rules: monsters and NPCs dying immediately at zero hit points instead of falling unconscious is not a general rule, just an option the GM can invoke at their leisure. Most GMs will invoke it out of habit unless you remind them. If they choose not to invoke it, the monster or NPC is knocked out like a PC and will have to make death saving throws until stabilized or dead, unless it receives enough damage for an instant kill. (see Monsters and Death in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The bottom line is that a GM can allow their players to knock creatures out with this spell while still adhering to strict RAW, but they can also choose not to, with the major caveat otherwise being that the creature will still require stabilization.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good point on the "death saving throws" at 0 HP for a monster, and "attempt to stabilize" by the PC who did this to them. I almost feel like that needs a title, in terms of "here is another way that you can do this" ... my opinion, but your last paragraph has a nice way tp apply the rules to achieve the effect but is almost lost by being at the end. (Your call if you want to revise that).
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
RAW, it's possible --- but requires GM buy-in
As you point out yourself, the attacker cannot choose to knock out a creature with it because knocking out a creature required the damage to be made as a melee attack. (see Knocking a Creature Out in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The spell's wording says it can pull the target "up to 10 feet", which suggests to me that one could drop the spell before pulling the target to the range where they get shocked, but that doesn't work like a magical taser.
Your GM can of course give you the option to use the spell to deal non-lethal damage. Since you asked for RAW guidance, I will point out this is not just a matter GM fiat changing the rules: monsters and NPCs dying immediately at zero hit points instead of falling unconscious is not a general rule, just an option the GM can invoke at their leisure. Most GMs will invoke it out of habit unless you remind them. If they choose not to invoke it, the monster or NPC is knocked out like a PC and will have to make death saving throws until stabilized or dead, unless it receives enough damage for an instant kill. (see Monsters and Death in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The bottom line is that a GM can allow their players to knock creatures out with this spell while still adhering to strict RAW, but they can also choose not to, with the major caveat otherwise being that the creature will still require stabilization.
$endgroup$
RAW, it's possible --- but requires GM buy-in
As you point out yourself, the attacker cannot choose to knock out a creature with it because knocking out a creature required the damage to be made as a melee attack. (see Knocking a Creature Out in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The spell's wording says it can pull the target "up to 10 feet", which suggests to me that one could drop the spell before pulling the target to the range where they get shocked, but that doesn't work like a magical taser.
Your GM can of course give you the option to use the spell to deal non-lethal damage. Since you asked for RAW guidance, I will point out this is not just a matter GM fiat changing the rules: monsters and NPCs dying immediately at zero hit points instead of falling unconscious is not a general rule, just an option the GM can invoke at their leisure. Most GMs will invoke it out of habit unless you remind them. If they choose not to invoke it, the monster or NPC is knocked out like a PC and will have to make death saving throws until stabilized or dead, unless it receives enough damage for an instant kill. (see Monsters and Death in Basic Rules at DnDBeyond)
The bottom line is that a GM can allow their players to knock creatures out with this spell while still adhering to strict RAW, but they can also choose not to, with the major caveat otherwise being that the creature will still require stabilization.
answered 8 hours ago
kviirikviiri
40.8k13 gold badges156 silver badges228 bronze badges
40.8k13 gold badges156 silver badges228 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Good point on the "death saving throws" at 0 HP for a monster, and "attempt to stabilize" by the PC who did this to them. I almost feel like that needs a title, in terms of "here is another way that you can do this" ... my opinion, but your last paragraph has a nice way tp apply the rules to achieve the effect but is almost lost by being at the end. (Your call if you want to revise that).
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Good point on the "death saving throws" at 0 HP for a monster, and "attempt to stabilize" by the PC who did this to them. I almost feel like that needs a title, in terms of "here is another way that you can do this" ... my opinion, but your last paragraph has a nice way tp apply the rules to achieve the effect but is almost lost by being at the end. (Your call if you want to revise that).
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good point on the "death saving throws" at 0 HP for a monster, and "attempt to stabilize" by the PC who did this to them. I almost feel like that needs a title, in terms of "here is another way that you can do this" ... my opinion, but your last paragraph has a nice way tp apply the rules to achieve the effect but is almost lost by being at the end. (Your call if you want to revise that).
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– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
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Good point on the "death saving throws" at 0 HP for a monster, and "attempt to stabilize" by the PC who did this to them. I almost feel like that needs a title, in terms of "here is another way that you can do this" ... my opinion, but your last paragraph has a nice way tp apply the rules to achieve the effect but is almost lost by being at the end. (Your call if you want to revise that).
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– KorvinStarmast
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Pete is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Pete is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Pete is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Pete is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
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Are you asking whether you can make it deal no damage or less damage than usual?
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– Medix2
8 hours ago
2
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Welcome, Pete! I highly recommend you take the tour to learn more about the stack and how we operate. Glad to have you here and hope to see you around :) Happy Gaming!
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– NautArch
8 hours ago
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Related on Can you vary how far lightning lure pulls the target toward you?
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– NautArch
8 hours ago