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A Mathematical Discussion: Fill in the Blank



Probability of fraction not being able to be simplified


Probability density function of: Z = X sin Y.What does a probability being i.i.d means?What is the probability $PX_1 rm~is ~largest$?X/Y probability being within a rangeProbability of being at least slightly above the meanFinding the probability of a fraction being in lowest terms.estimate a probabilityMust a random vector following a multivariate uniform distribution be independent uniform random variables?How to determine the probability of this inequality being true?probability of a quadratic function has real roots













6












$begingroup$


Let a and b be random independent positive integers that follow the uniform distribution. What is the probability that the fraction:



$fracab$



cannot be simplified?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
    $endgroup$
    – RMWGNE96
    9 hours ago






  • 9




    $begingroup$
    There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Israel
    8 hours ago















6












$begingroup$


Let a and b be random independent positive integers that follow the uniform distribution. What is the probability that the fraction:



$fracab$



cannot be simplified?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
    $endgroup$
    – RMWGNE96
    9 hours ago






  • 9




    $begingroup$
    There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Israel
    8 hours ago













6












6








6





$begingroup$


Let a and b be random independent positive integers that follow the uniform distribution. What is the probability that the fraction:



$fracab$



cannot be simplified?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




Let a and b be random independent positive integers that follow the uniform distribution. What is the probability that the fraction:



$fracab$



cannot be simplified?







probability number-theory






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked 9 hours ago









michail vazaiosmichail vazaios

506




506











  • $begingroup$
    That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
    $endgroup$
    – RMWGNE96
    9 hours ago






  • 9




    $begingroup$
    There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Israel
    8 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
    $endgroup$
    – RMWGNE96
    9 hours ago






  • 9




    $begingroup$
    There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Israel
    8 hours ago















$begingroup$
That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
$endgroup$
– RMWGNE96
9 hours ago




$begingroup$
That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
$endgroup$
– RMWGNE96
9 hours ago




9




9




$begingroup$
There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
8 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















6












$begingroup$

Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.



So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.



In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,



$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$



Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,



$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$



This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn



$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$



For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining



$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$



This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:



$$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$



Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:



$$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$



This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,



$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$



$zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,



$$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$



The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by



$$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
    $endgroup$
    – Brian
    8 hours ago


















4












$begingroup$

This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    6












    $begingroup$

    Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.



    So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.



    In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$



    Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$



    This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$



    For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$



    This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:



    $$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$



    Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:



    $$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$



    This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$



    $zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$



    The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by



    $$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$








    • 2




      $begingroup$
      This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
      $endgroup$
      – Brian
      8 hours ago















    6












    $begingroup$

    Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.



    So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.



    In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$



    Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$



    This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$



    For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$



    This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:



    $$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$



    Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:



    $$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$



    This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$



    $zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$



    The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by



    $$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$








    • 2




      $begingroup$
      This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
      $endgroup$
      – Brian
      8 hours ago













    6












    6








    6





    $begingroup$

    Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.



    So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.



    In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$



    Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$



    This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$



    For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$



    This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:



    $$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$



    Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:



    $$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$



    This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$



    $zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$



    The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by



    $$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.



    So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.



    In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$



    Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$



    This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn



    $$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$



    For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$



    This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:



    $$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$



    Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:



    $$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$



    This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$



    $zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,



    $$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$



    The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by



    $$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered 8 hours ago









    Eevee TrainerEevee Trainer

    12.7k32045




    12.7k32045







    • 2




      $begingroup$
      This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
      $endgroup$
      – Brian
      8 hours ago












    • 2




      $begingroup$
      This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
      $endgroup$
      – Brian
      8 hours ago







    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
    $endgroup$
    – Brian
    8 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
    $endgroup$
    – Brian
    8 hours ago











    4












    $begingroup$

    This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      4












      $begingroup$

      This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        4












        4








        4





        $begingroup$

        This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$






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        $endgroup$



        This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$







        share|cite|improve this answer












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        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered 9 hours ago









        PeterPeter

        50.4k1240141




        50.4k1240141



























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