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A Mathematical Discussion: Fill in the Blank
Probability of fraction not being able to be simplified
Probability density function of: Z = X sin Y.What does a probability being i.i.d means?What is the probability $PX_1 rm~is ~largest$?X/Y probability being within a rangeProbability of being at least slightly above the meanFinding the probability of a fraction being in lowest terms.estimate a probabilityMust a random vector following a multivariate uniform distribution be independent uniform random variables?How to determine the probability of this inequality being true?probability of a quadratic function has real roots
$begingroup$
Let a and b be random independent positive integers that follow the uniform distribution. What is the probability that the fraction:
$fracab$
cannot be simplified?
probability number-theory
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let a and b be random independent positive integers that follow the uniform distribution. What is the probability that the fraction:
$fracab$
cannot be simplified?
probability number-theory
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
$endgroup$
– RMWGNE96
9 hours ago
9
$begingroup$
There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let a and b be random independent positive integers that follow the uniform distribution. What is the probability that the fraction:
$fracab$
cannot be simplified?
probability number-theory
$endgroup$
Let a and b be random independent positive integers that follow the uniform distribution. What is the probability that the fraction:
$fracab$
cannot be simplified?
probability number-theory
probability number-theory
asked 9 hours ago
michail vazaiosmichail vazaios
506
506
$begingroup$
That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
$endgroup$
– RMWGNE96
9 hours ago
9
$begingroup$
There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
$endgroup$
– RMWGNE96
9 hours ago
9
$begingroup$
There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
$endgroup$
– RMWGNE96
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
$endgroup$
– RMWGNE96
9 hours ago
9
9
$begingroup$
There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
8 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.
So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.
In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$
Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$
This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$
For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$
This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:
$$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$
Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:
$$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$
This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$
$zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$
The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by
$$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
$endgroup$
– Brian
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
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$begingroup$
Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.
So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.
In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$
Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$
This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$
For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$
This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:
$$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$
Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:
$$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$
This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$
$zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$
The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by
$$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
$endgroup$
– Brian
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.
So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.
In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$
Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$
This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$
For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$
This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:
$$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$
Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:
$$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$
This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$
$zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$
The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by
$$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
$endgroup$
– Brian
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.
So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.
In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$
Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$
This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$
For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$
This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:
$$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$
Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:
$$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$
This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$
$zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$
The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by
$$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$
$endgroup$
Peter's answer gets to the heart of the matter relatively quickly, but I feel it would also be best to demonstrate where the $6/pi^2$ comes from, seemingly out of nowhere to the uninitiated.
So, it should be obvious that $a/b$ is in simplest form if and only if $a,b$ are coprime, i.e. $gcd(a,b) = 1$. Well, what does that mean? It means that $a,b$ share no common prime number factors.
In particular, it means $a,b$ do not share a factor of $2$. For (uniformly randomly chosen) nonzero integers $a,b$ (less than some other number $x$), there is a $1/2$ chance (in the limit $x to infty$) each will have a factor of $2$. Thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 2) = 1 - left(frac 1 2 right)^2$$
Similarly, it means that they do not share a factor of $3$. There's a $1/3$ chance each will have a factor of three, and thus,
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of 3) = 1 - left(frac 1 3 right)^2$$
This clearly generalizes. Consider a prime number $p$. There is a $1/p$ chance that $a,b$ each will have it, and in turn
$$P(texta,b do not have a mutual factor of p) = 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2$$
For $a,b$ to be coprime this needs to be true of all primes $p$. The events are independent, and we accordingly can multiply the respective probabilities for each prime $p$, obtaining
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - left(frac 1 p right)^2 = prod_textp prime 1 - frac 1 p^2$$
This now ties into something known as the Riemann zeta function. There are two formulas typically associated with it: a summation and a product formula. We often focus on the summation formula but can derive the latter; a proof of said derivation can be found here. In any event, we focus on the prime product formula below:
$$zeta(s) = prod_textp prime frac11-p^-s$$
Bearing in mind this is a product, we can do a manipulation:
$$frac1zeta(s) = prod_textp prime 1-frac 1 p^s$$
This looks precisely like the formula for our probability of $a,b$ being coprime but with $s$ in lieu of $2$. Indeed, letting $s=2$,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = prod_textp prime 1 - frac1p^2 = frac1zeta(2)$$
$zeta(2)$ is a known value which Euler calculated to be $pi^2/6$; finding this value is often referred to as the Basel problem. Accordingly,
$$P(texta,b are coprime) = frac1pi^2/6 = frac6pi^2$$
The idea also generalizes further. Say you have some group of $n$ integers ($n$ a positive integer). Then the probability that all $n$ are coprime is given by
$$P(textall n numbers are coprime) = frac1zeta(n)$$
answered 8 hours ago
Eevee TrainerEevee Trainer
12.7k32045
12.7k32045
2
$begingroup$
This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
$endgroup$
– Brian
8 hours ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
$endgroup$
– Brian
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
$endgroup$
– Brian
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
This same heuristic can be applied to finding the probability that an integer is "$k$-free" (that is, an integer having no perfect $k$th power factor > 1), which also happens to be $frac1zetaleft(kright).$ In fact, the probability that greatest common divisor of $n$ integers has no perfect $k$th power factor > 1 (that is, the probability of $n$ integers being relatively $k$-prime) is $frac1zetaleft(nkright).$
$endgroup$
– Brian
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$
$endgroup$
This question is equivalent to ask for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime. If $a$ and $b$ are random integers below $x$, then the probability $P(x)$ that $a$ and $b$ are coprime , satisfies $$lim_xrightarrowinfty P(x)=frac6pi^2approx0.6079$$
answered 9 hours ago
PeterPeter
50.4k1240141
50.4k1240141
add a comment |
add a comment |
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That's equal to the probability that $gcd(a,b)=1$. Since prime numbers follow a $log$ distribution, I think that the probability must be zero in the end.
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– RMWGNE96
9 hours ago
9
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There is no uniform distribution on positive integers. What is true is that if $a$ and $b$ are chosen independently from the uniform distribution on $1,2,ldots, N$, then asymptotically as $N to infty$ the probability approaches $6/pi^2$.
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– Robert Israel
8 hours ago