Past participle agreement with the subject in the case of pronominal verbsPas d'accord pour « se rendre compte de » et « se plaire/complaire »Gender and number agreement with past participle

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Past participle agreement with the subject in the case of pronominal verbs


Pas d'accord pour « se rendre compte de » et « se plaire/complaire »Gender and number agreement with past participle













1















I've been solving exercices in a book called practice makes perfect (linked down below)
And in the Plus-que parfait exercices (page 82,81. 10.2 Exercice. N.3, N.10) there are those two sentences which are really confusing me :



Tu (se demander) ....... s'il était allergique.
Elles (s'écrire) ..... pendant des années.



The answers ,according to the Answer Key, should be (t'etais demandé(e), s'étaient écrites) but I don't understand why there is an agreement here. I thought that reciprocal verbs which take an indirect object its past participle does not agree with the subject. And worth noting also that in the exercices of the Passe Composé there are those two similar sentence which have no agreement (page 63) :



Ils se sont écrit de long lettres.
Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent.



And here's a part of the book explanation for the past participle agreement thing (page 62,63) :



"When reciprocal verbs take an indirect object in French, the past participle does not agree.



Ils se sont téléphoné. They called each other.



Vous vous êtes parlé au téléphone. You talked to each other on the phone.



Ils se sont écrit de longues lettres. They wrote each other long letters."



and here's the whole explanation as whenever I try to copy it, its format always gets messed up somehow



Book link : ( https://archive.org/details/practice-makes-perfect-complete-french-grammar/page/n94 )



Note : please don't explain in french. My french isn't that advanced yet and it will be super hard to understand it.










share|improve this question


























    1















    I've been solving exercices in a book called practice makes perfect (linked down below)
    And in the Plus-que parfait exercices (page 82,81. 10.2 Exercice. N.3, N.10) there are those two sentences which are really confusing me :



    Tu (se demander) ....... s'il était allergique.
    Elles (s'écrire) ..... pendant des années.



    The answers ,according to the Answer Key, should be (t'etais demandé(e), s'étaient écrites) but I don't understand why there is an agreement here. I thought that reciprocal verbs which take an indirect object its past participle does not agree with the subject. And worth noting also that in the exercices of the Passe Composé there are those two similar sentence which have no agreement (page 63) :



    Ils se sont écrit de long lettres.
    Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent.



    And here's a part of the book explanation for the past participle agreement thing (page 62,63) :



    "When reciprocal verbs take an indirect object in French, the past participle does not agree.



    Ils se sont téléphoné. They called each other.



    Vous vous êtes parlé au téléphone. You talked to each other on the phone.



    Ils se sont écrit de longues lettres. They wrote each other long letters."



    and here's the whole explanation as whenever I try to copy it, its format always gets messed up somehow



    Book link : ( https://archive.org/details/practice-makes-perfect-complete-french-grammar/page/n94 )



    Note : please don't explain in french. My french isn't that advanced yet and it will be super hard to understand it.










    share|improve this question
























      1












      1








      1








      I've been solving exercices in a book called practice makes perfect (linked down below)
      And in the Plus-que parfait exercices (page 82,81. 10.2 Exercice. N.3, N.10) there are those two sentences which are really confusing me :



      Tu (se demander) ....... s'il était allergique.
      Elles (s'écrire) ..... pendant des années.



      The answers ,according to the Answer Key, should be (t'etais demandé(e), s'étaient écrites) but I don't understand why there is an agreement here. I thought that reciprocal verbs which take an indirect object its past participle does not agree with the subject. And worth noting also that in the exercices of the Passe Composé there are those two similar sentence which have no agreement (page 63) :



      Ils se sont écrit de long lettres.
      Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent.



      And here's a part of the book explanation for the past participle agreement thing (page 62,63) :



      "When reciprocal verbs take an indirect object in French, the past participle does not agree.



      Ils se sont téléphoné. They called each other.



      Vous vous êtes parlé au téléphone. You talked to each other on the phone.



      Ils se sont écrit de longues lettres. They wrote each other long letters."



      and here's the whole explanation as whenever I try to copy it, its format always gets messed up somehow



      Book link : ( https://archive.org/details/practice-makes-perfect-complete-french-grammar/page/n94 )



      Note : please don't explain in french. My french isn't that advanced yet and it will be super hard to understand it.










      share|improve this question














      I've been solving exercices in a book called practice makes perfect (linked down below)
      And in the Plus-que parfait exercices (page 82,81. 10.2 Exercice. N.3, N.10) there are those two sentences which are really confusing me :



      Tu (se demander) ....... s'il était allergique.
      Elles (s'écrire) ..... pendant des années.



      The answers ,according to the Answer Key, should be (t'etais demandé(e), s'étaient écrites) but I don't understand why there is an agreement here. I thought that reciprocal verbs which take an indirect object its past participle does not agree with the subject. And worth noting also that in the exercices of the Passe Composé there are those two similar sentence which have no agreement (page 63) :



      Ils se sont écrit de long lettres.
      Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent.



      And here's a part of the book explanation for the past participle agreement thing (page 62,63) :



      "When reciprocal verbs take an indirect object in French, the past participle does not agree.



      Ils se sont téléphoné. They called each other.



      Vous vous êtes parlé au téléphone. You talked to each other on the phone.



      Ils se sont écrit de longues lettres. They wrote each other long letters."



      and here's the whole explanation as whenever I try to copy it, its format always gets messed up somehow



      Book link : ( https://archive.org/details/practice-makes-perfect-complete-french-grammar/page/n94 )



      Note : please don't explain in french. My french isn't that advanced yet and it will be super hard to understand it.







      grammaire accord verbes-pronominaux






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 8 hours ago









      ManarManar

      647




      647




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          3














          You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.



          As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.



          As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.



          Therefore it should be:




          Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.



          Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.







          share|improve this answer























          • That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.

            – Manar
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.

            – mcadorel
            7 hours ago


















          1














          The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.



          The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          purerstamp is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.



















          • so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.

            – purerstamp
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago






          • 1





            Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago












          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          3














          You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.



          As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.



          As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.



          Therefore it should be:




          Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.



          Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.







          share|improve this answer























          • That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.

            – Manar
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.

            – mcadorel
            7 hours ago















          3














          You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.



          As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.



          As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.



          Therefore it should be:




          Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.



          Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.







          share|improve this answer























          • That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.

            – Manar
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.

            – mcadorel
            7 hours ago













          3












          3








          3







          You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.



          As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.



          As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.



          Therefore it should be:




          Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.



          Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.







          share|improve this answer













          You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.



          As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.



          As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.



          Therefore it should be:




          Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.



          Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.








          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 8 hours ago









          mcadorelmcadorel

          1,052214




          1,052214












          • That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.

            – Manar
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.

            – mcadorel
            7 hours ago

















          • That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.

            – Manar
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.

            – mcadorel
            7 hours ago
















          That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.

          – Manar
          7 hours ago





          That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.

          – Manar
          7 hours ago




          2




          2





          Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.

          – mcadorel
          7 hours ago





          Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.

          – mcadorel
          7 hours ago











          1














          The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.



          The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          purerstamp is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.



















          • so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.

            – purerstamp
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago






          • 1





            Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago
















          1














          The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.



          The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          purerstamp is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.



















          • so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.

            – purerstamp
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago






          • 1





            Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago














          1












          1








          1







          The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.



          The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          purerstamp is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.



          The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.







          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          purerstamp is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.








          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 1 hour ago





















          New contributor



          purerstamp is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.








          answered 8 hours ago









          purerstamppurerstamp

          1029




          1029




          New contributor



          purerstamp is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.




          New contributor




          purerstamp is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.














          • so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.

            – purerstamp
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago






          • 1





            Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago


















          • so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.

            – Manar
            8 hours ago











          • As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.

            – purerstamp
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago






          • 1





            Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.

            – purerstamp
            1 hour ago

















          so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique

          – Manar
          8 hours ago





          so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique

          – Manar
          8 hours ago













          Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.

          – Manar
          8 hours ago





          Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.

          – Manar
          8 hours ago













          As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.

          – purerstamp
          8 hours ago





          As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.

          – purerstamp
          8 hours ago




          1




          1





          Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.

          – purerstamp
          1 hour ago





          Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.

          – purerstamp
          1 hour ago




          1




          1





          Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.

          – purerstamp
          1 hour ago






          Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.

          – purerstamp
          1 hour ago


















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