Parallel fifths in the orchestraParallel Fifth in a Symphony OrchestralOrchestra warmup soundsHow important is harmony theory?Are there any “etudes for the orchestra”?How can a cello soloist practice projecting over orchestra?Score for orchestra tuningOrchestra notation and harmonyHow difficult is the orchestra part of Rachmaninoff's 3rd piano concerto?Do composers take advantage of the position of players in an orchestra for effect?Causes of the problems with hearing the singers over an orchestraPrepared myself for symphonic writing, still very nervous
Parallel fifths in the orchestra
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Parallel fifths in the orchestra
Parallel Fifth in a Symphony OrchestralOrchestra warmup soundsHow important is harmony theory?Are there any “etudes for the orchestra”?How can a cello soloist practice projecting over orchestra?Score for orchestra tuningOrchestra notation and harmonyHow difficult is the orchestra part of Rachmaninoff's 3rd piano concerto?Do composers take advantage of the position of players in an orchestra for effect?Causes of the problems with hearing the singers over an orchestraPrepared myself for symphonic writing, still very nervous
I started to learn orchestral music with four part harmony for choirs and there you always try to avoid parallel fifths and octaves...
How does this relate to a whole orchestra? Do you have to take care of them only within the sections (strings, brass, woodwinds), do you have to take care of them within the whole orchestra or does it even matter in the whole orchestra?
orchestra
New contributor
add a comment |
I started to learn orchestral music with four part harmony for choirs and there you always try to avoid parallel fifths and octaves...
How does this relate to a whole orchestra? Do you have to take care of them only within the sections (strings, brass, woodwinds), do you have to take care of them within the whole orchestra or does it even matter in the whole orchestra?
orchestra
New contributor
1
Imagine Violoncello and Doublebass: the will play octava parallels in any style. So don't mind the parallel fifths in orchestra voicing. It's not a question of "take care" it's a question of counterpoint and opposite motion. If you want it or if you need it ... do what you must do.
– Albrecht Hügli
4 hours ago
@AlbrechtHügli That’s not parallel octaves, that’s just doubling at the octave. Parallel octaves and fifths refer to the relationship between two entirely different voices, not just multiple lines playing the same voice.
– Pat Muchmore
53 mins ago
add a comment |
I started to learn orchestral music with four part harmony for choirs and there you always try to avoid parallel fifths and octaves...
How does this relate to a whole orchestra? Do you have to take care of them only within the sections (strings, brass, woodwinds), do you have to take care of them within the whole orchestra or does it even matter in the whole orchestra?
orchestra
New contributor
I started to learn orchestral music with four part harmony for choirs and there you always try to avoid parallel fifths and octaves...
How does this relate to a whole orchestra? Do you have to take care of them only within the sections (strings, brass, woodwinds), do you have to take care of them within the whole orchestra or does it even matter in the whole orchestra?
orchestra
orchestra
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 8 hours ago
StoneStone
295
295
New contributor
New contributor
1
Imagine Violoncello and Doublebass: the will play octava parallels in any style. So don't mind the parallel fifths in orchestra voicing. It's not a question of "take care" it's a question of counterpoint and opposite motion. If you want it or if you need it ... do what you must do.
– Albrecht Hügli
4 hours ago
@AlbrechtHügli That’s not parallel octaves, that’s just doubling at the octave. Parallel octaves and fifths refer to the relationship between two entirely different voices, not just multiple lines playing the same voice.
– Pat Muchmore
53 mins ago
add a comment |
1
Imagine Violoncello and Doublebass: the will play octava parallels in any style. So don't mind the parallel fifths in orchestra voicing. It's not a question of "take care" it's a question of counterpoint and opposite motion. If you want it or if you need it ... do what you must do.
– Albrecht Hügli
4 hours ago
@AlbrechtHügli That’s not parallel octaves, that’s just doubling at the octave. Parallel octaves and fifths refer to the relationship between two entirely different voices, not just multiple lines playing the same voice.
– Pat Muchmore
53 mins ago
1
1
Imagine Violoncello and Doublebass: the will play octava parallels in any style. So don't mind the parallel fifths in orchestra voicing. It's not a question of "take care" it's a question of counterpoint and opposite motion. If you want it or if you need it ... do what you must do.
– Albrecht Hügli
4 hours ago
Imagine Violoncello and Doublebass: the will play octava parallels in any style. So don't mind the parallel fifths in orchestra voicing. It's not a question of "take care" it's a question of counterpoint and opposite motion. If you want it or if you need it ... do what you must do.
– Albrecht Hügli
4 hours ago
@AlbrechtHügli That’s not parallel octaves, that’s just doubling at the octave. Parallel octaves and fifths refer to the relationship between two entirely different voices, not just multiple lines playing the same voice.
– Pat Muchmore
53 mins ago
@AlbrechtHügli That’s not parallel octaves, that’s just doubling at the octave. Parallel octaves and fifths refer to the relationship between two entirely different voices, not just multiple lines playing the same voice.
– Pat Muchmore
53 mins ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
IF you care about avoiding parallel fifths and octaves—and that’s entirely a stylistic choice on the part of the composer—then, for the most part, you care about them regardless of the instruments involved. And you care about them at the level of basic harmonic structure completely independent of the orchestration of the moment. In other words: no, it isn’t something you avoid only within a particular instrument family, it’s orchestra-wide.
For the European composers of common-practice tonal music in the 18th century (with considerable overlap into the 17th and 19th centuries as well), they almost always avoided these parallels, and they did so regardless of whether it was a piano sonata, or a symphony or anything in between. It’s a fundamental aspect of harmonic connection for them, not a surface level concern. What I mean is: by the time they’re thinking about how to distribute the harmonies amongst the instruments, the voice leading is already set. It’s not even something a composer of that period had to consciously think about, it’s just how the primary musical grammar worked for them. When they did want the sound of parallel fifths—as Beethoven did in a famous passage of the sixth symphony—they wrote it, but it wasn’t the default.
Here in the 21st century, most of us don’t already have this preconceived idea about how harmonies “should” connect. A lot of popular music styles use parallels all the time; in a lot of basic heavy metal music I would (only half-facetiously) say a composer was making a mistake if they didn’t use parallel fifths and octaves. Different musics have different grammars, but those grammars tend to apply regardless of specific instrumentation.
add a comment |
There is a similar question to this one here: Parallel Fifth in a Symphony Orchestral
However, I wouldn't say that it matters too much within the whole orchestra. People these days are so familiar with the sound from all the pop & rock songs out there. I think it will just fly by within a whole orchestral score with so many instruments playing at the same time.
If you compose something and then think "ohh boy, this sounds like block-chords", then you probably should change it, but otherwise - if it sounds good to you, it sounds good to other people as well.
You probably should only take care of them in small arrangements when they're exposed, but even then... There are no rules in music. If you like the sound, then stick with it.
add a comment |
Parallel 5ths are absolutely fine in choral music. In fact, the very earliest choral music was ALL parallel 5ths! Where they AREN'T fine is in a style of writing which values the effect of four independent voices, the style epitomised by Bach's chorale settings. Listen to the beautiful rich harmony of those, also listen to the barer but still beautiful effect in this piece.
Both styles are perfectly valid in orchestral writing.
add a comment |
Two instruments which play parallel fifths or octaves will often sound like a single more powerful instrument. The extent to which this occurs will generally depend on the particular instruments involved. This effect can be very useful if employed in places where it would make musical sense. It can also be jarring if it occurs willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.
Note that in a symphony orchestra, the number of different instruments will typically be much greater than the number of different musical lines that be maintained simultaneously. The most useful way to employ a symphony orchestra will thus often be to have various groups of instruments play various sections of music in parallel octaves or, less commonly, fifths, so that they sound--for those sections of music--like unified more powerful instruments. Note that when using parallel fifths, the part that's up a fifth should generally played on an instrument with a relatively "pure" tone, such as a flute.
But that isn’t parallel motion (well not in the sense being used when talking about counterpoint) that’s just doubling. Doubling a voice in multiple octaves happens all the time even in solo piano music of the common-practice era; it’s only at the level of the fundamental voices that it’s generally avoided.
– Pat Muchmore
49 mins ago
@PatMuchmore If the doubling only happens sometimes, then it's still parallel. And you really need to make an Answer about this, because there's no reason to assume the OP makes such distinctions.
– trlkly
29 mins ago
@trlkly Yes, there is a point at which the distinction can become quite nuanced, you’re right. Separate lines coalesce into a single voice temporarily, and then separate later, and it isn’t always easy to make a distinction between legitimate doubling and un-stylistic voice leading. At any rate, I did write an answer, and tried to address the central confusion of the OP’s post, maybe I failed.
– Pat Muchmore
7 mins ago
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
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IF you care about avoiding parallel fifths and octaves—and that’s entirely a stylistic choice on the part of the composer—then, for the most part, you care about them regardless of the instruments involved. And you care about them at the level of basic harmonic structure completely independent of the orchestration of the moment. In other words: no, it isn’t something you avoid only within a particular instrument family, it’s orchestra-wide.
For the European composers of common-practice tonal music in the 18th century (with considerable overlap into the 17th and 19th centuries as well), they almost always avoided these parallels, and they did so regardless of whether it was a piano sonata, or a symphony or anything in between. It’s a fundamental aspect of harmonic connection for them, not a surface level concern. What I mean is: by the time they’re thinking about how to distribute the harmonies amongst the instruments, the voice leading is already set. It’s not even something a composer of that period had to consciously think about, it’s just how the primary musical grammar worked for them. When they did want the sound of parallel fifths—as Beethoven did in a famous passage of the sixth symphony—they wrote it, but it wasn’t the default.
Here in the 21st century, most of us don’t already have this preconceived idea about how harmonies “should” connect. A lot of popular music styles use parallels all the time; in a lot of basic heavy metal music I would (only half-facetiously) say a composer was making a mistake if they didn’t use parallel fifths and octaves. Different musics have different grammars, but those grammars tend to apply regardless of specific instrumentation.
add a comment |
IF you care about avoiding parallel fifths and octaves—and that’s entirely a stylistic choice on the part of the composer—then, for the most part, you care about them regardless of the instruments involved. And you care about them at the level of basic harmonic structure completely independent of the orchestration of the moment. In other words: no, it isn’t something you avoid only within a particular instrument family, it’s orchestra-wide.
For the European composers of common-practice tonal music in the 18th century (with considerable overlap into the 17th and 19th centuries as well), they almost always avoided these parallels, and they did so regardless of whether it was a piano sonata, or a symphony or anything in between. It’s a fundamental aspect of harmonic connection for them, not a surface level concern. What I mean is: by the time they’re thinking about how to distribute the harmonies amongst the instruments, the voice leading is already set. It’s not even something a composer of that period had to consciously think about, it’s just how the primary musical grammar worked for them. When they did want the sound of parallel fifths—as Beethoven did in a famous passage of the sixth symphony—they wrote it, but it wasn’t the default.
Here in the 21st century, most of us don’t already have this preconceived idea about how harmonies “should” connect. A lot of popular music styles use parallels all the time; in a lot of basic heavy metal music I would (only half-facetiously) say a composer was making a mistake if they didn’t use parallel fifths and octaves. Different musics have different grammars, but those grammars tend to apply regardless of specific instrumentation.
add a comment |
IF you care about avoiding parallel fifths and octaves—and that’s entirely a stylistic choice on the part of the composer—then, for the most part, you care about them regardless of the instruments involved. And you care about them at the level of basic harmonic structure completely independent of the orchestration of the moment. In other words: no, it isn’t something you avoid only within a particular instrument family, it’s orchestra-wide.
For the European composers of common-practice tonal music in the 18th century (with considerable overlap into the 17th and 19th centuries as well), they almost always avoided these parallels, and they did so regardless of whether it was a piano sonata, or a symphony or anything in between. It’s a fundamental aspect of harmonic connection for them, not a surface level concern. What I mean is: by the time they’re thinking about how to distribute the harmonies amongst the instruments, the voice leading is already set. It’s not even something a composer of that period had to consciously think about, it’s just how the primary musical grammar worked for them. When they did want the sound of parallel fifths—as Beethoven did in a famous passage of the sixth symphony—they wrote it, but it wasn’t the default.
Here in the 21st century, most of us don’t already have this preconceived idea about how harmonies “should” connect. A lot of popular music styles use parallels all the time; in a lot of basic heavy metal music I would (only half-facetiously) say a composer was making a mistake if they didn’t use parallel fifths and octaves. Different musics have different grammars, but those grammars tend to apply regardless of specific instrumentation.
IF you care about avoiding parallel fifths and octaves—and that’s entirely a stylistic choice on the part of the composer—then, for the most part, you care about them regardless of the instruments involved. And you care about them at the level of basic harmonic structure completely independent of the orchestration of the moment. In other words: no, it isn’t something you avoid only within a particular instrument family, it’s orchestra-wide.
For the European composers of common-practice tonal music in the 18th century (with considerable overlap into the 17th and 19th centuries as well), they almost always avoided these parallels, and they did so regardless of whether it was a piano sonata, or a symphony or anything in between. It’s a fundamental aspect of harmonic connection for them, not a surface level concern. What I mean is: by the time they’re thinking about how to distribute the harmonies amongst the instruments, the voice leading is already set. It’s not even something a composer of that period had to consciously think about, it’s just how the primary musical grammar worked for them. When they did want the sound of parallel fifths—as Beethoven did in a famous passage of the sixth symphony—they wrote it, but it wasn’t the default.
Here in the 21st century, most of us don’t already have this preconceived idea about how harmonies “should” connect. A lot of popular music styles use parallels all the time; in a lot of basic heavy metal music I would (only half-facetiously) say a composer was making a mistake if they didn’t use parallel fifths and octaves. Different musics have different grammars, but those grammars tend to apply regardless of specific instrumentation.
answered 8 hours ago
Pat MuchmorePat Muchmore
15.4k13276
15.4k13276
add a comment |
add a comment |
There is a similar question to this one here: Parallel Fifth in a Symphony Orchestral
However, I wouldn't say that it matters too much within the whole orchestra. People these days are so familiar with the sound from all the pop & rock songs out there. I think it will just fly by within a whole orchestral score with so many instruments playing at the same time.
If you compose something and then think "ohh boy, this sounds like block-chords", then you probably should change it, but otherwise - if it sounds good to you, it sounds good to other people as well.
You probably should only take care of them in small arrangements when they're exposed, but even then... There are no rules in music. If you like the sound, then stick with it.
add a comment |
There is a similar question to this one here: Parallel Fifth in a Symphony Orchestral
However, I wouldn't say that it matters too much within the whole orchestra. People these days are so familiar with the sound from all the pop & rock songs out there. I think it will just fly by within a whole orchestral score with so many instruments playing at the same time.
If you compose something and then think "ohh boy, this sounds like block-chords", then you probably should change it, but otherwise - if it sounds good to you, it sounds good to other people as well.
You probably should only take care of them in small arrangements when they're exposed, but even then... There are no rules in music. If you like the sound, then stick with it.
add a comment |
There is a similar question to this one here: Parallel Fifth in a Symphony Orchestral
However, I wouldn't say that it matters too much within the whole orchestra. People these days are so familiar with the sound from all the pop & rock songs out there. I think it will just fly by within a whole orchestral score with so many instruments playing at the same time.
If you compose something and then think "ohh boy, this sounds like block-chords", then you probably should change it, but otherwise - if it sounds good to you, it sounds good to other people as well.
You probably should only take care of them in small arrangements when they're exposed, but even then... There are no rules in music. If you like the sound, then stick with it.
There is a similar question to this one here: Parallel Fifth in a Symphony Orchestral
However, I wouldn't say that it matters too much within the whole orchestra. People these days are so familiar with the sound from all the pop & rock songs out there. I think it will just fly by within a whole orchestral score with so many instruments playing at the same time.
If you compose something and then think "ohh boy, this sounds like block-chords", then you probably should change it, but otherwise - if it sounds good to you, it sounds good to other people as well.
You probably should only take care of them in small arrangements when they're exposed, but even then... There are no rules in music. If you like the sound, then stick with it.
answered 8 hours ago
AndyAndy
55511
55511
add a comment |
add a comment |
Parallel 5ths are absolutely fine in choral music. In fact, the very earliest choral music was ALL parallel 5ths! Where they AREN'T fine is in a style of writing which values the effect of four independent voices, the style epitomised by Bach's chorale settings. Listen to the beautiful rich harmony of those, also listen to the barer but still beautiful effect in this piece.
Both styles are perfectly valid in orchestral writing.
add a comment |
Parallel 5ths are absolutely fine in choral music. In fact, the very earliest choral music was ALL parallel 5ths! Where they AREN'T fine is in a style of writing which values the effect of four independent voices, the style epitomised by Bach's chorale settings. Listen to the beautiful rich harmony of those, also listen to the barer but still beautiful effect in this piece.
Both styles are perfectly valid in orchestral writing.
add a comment |
Parallel 5ths are absolutely fine in choral music. In fact, the very earliest choral music was ALL parallel 5ths! Where they AREN'T fine is in a style of writing which values the effect of four independent voices, the style epitomised by Bach's chorale settings. Listen to the beautiful rich harmony of those, also listen to the barer but still beautiful effect in this piece.
Both styles are perfectly valid in orchestral writing.
Parallel 5ths are absolutely fine in choral music. In fact, the very earliest choral music was ALL parallel 5ths! Where they AREN'T fine is in a style of writing which values the effect of four independent voices, the style epitomised by Bach's chorale settings. Listen to the beautiful rich harmony of those, also listen to the barer but still beautiful effect in this piece.
Both styles are perfectly valid in orchestral writing.
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
39.2k2074
39.2k2074
add a comment |
add a comment |
Two instruments which play parallel fifths or octaves will often sound like a single more powerful instrument. The extent to which this occurs will generally depend on the particular instruments involved. This effect can be very useful if employed in places where it would make musical sense. It can also be jarring if it occurs willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.
Note that in a symphony orchestra, the number of different instruments will typically be much greater than the number of different musical lines that be maintained simultaneously. The most useful way to employ a symphony orchestra will thus often be to have various groups of instruments play various sections of music in parallel octaves or, less commonly, fifths, so that they sound--for those sections of music--like unified more powerful instruments. Note that when using parallel fifths, the part that's up a fifth should generally played on an instrument with a relatively "pure" tone, such as a flute.
But that isn’t parallel motion (well not in the sense being used when talking about counterpoint) that’s just doubling. Doubling a voice in multiple octaves happens all the time even in solo piano music of the common-practice era; it’s only at the level of the fundamental voices that it’s generally avoided.
– Pat Muchmore
49 mins ago
@PatMuchmore If the doubling only happens sometimes, then it's still parallel. And you really need to make an Answer about this, because there's no reason to assume the OP makes such distinctions.
– trlkly
29 mins ago
@trlkly Yes, there is a point at which the distinction can become quite nuanced, you’re right. Separate lines coalesce into a single voice temporarily, and then separate later, and it isn’t always easy to make a distinction between legitimate doubling and un-stylistic voice leading. At any rate, I did write an answer, and tried to address the central confusion of the OP’s post, maybe I failed.
– Pat Muchmore
7 mins ago
add a comment |
Two instruments which play parallel fifths or octaves will often sound like a single more powerful instrument. The extent to which this occurs will generally depend on the particular instruments involved. This effect can be very useful if employed in places where it would make musical sense. It can also be jarring if it occurs willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.
Note that in a symphony orchestra, the number of different instruments will typically be much greater than the number of different musical lines that be maintained simultaneously. The most useful way to employ a symphony orchestra will thus often be to have various groups of instruments play various sections of music in parallel octaves or, less commonly, fifths, so that they sound--for those sections of music--like unified more powerful instruments. Note that when using parallel fifths, the part that's up a fifth should generally played on an instrument with a relatively "pure" tone, such as a flute.
But that isn’t parallel motion (well not in the sense being used when talking about counterpoint) that’s just doubling. Doubling a voice in multiple octaves happens all the time even in solo piano music of the common-practice era; it’s only at the level of the fundamental voices that it’s generally avoided.
– Pat Muchmore
49 mins ago
@PatMuchmore If the doubling only happens sometimes, then it's still parallel. And you really need to make an Answer about this, because there's no reason to assume the OP makes such distinctions.
– trlkly
29 mins ago
@trlkly Yes, there is a point at which the distinction can become quite nuanced, you’re right. Separate lines coalesce into a single voice temporarily, and then separate later, and it isn’t always easy to make a distinction between legitimate doubling and un-stylistic voice leading. At any rate, I did write an answer, and tried to address the central confusion of the OP’s post, maybe I failed.
– Pat Muchmore
7 mins ago
add a comment |
Two instruments which play parallel fifths or octaves will often sound like a single more powerful instrument. The extent to which this occurs will generally depend on the particular instruments involved. This effect can be very useful if employed in places where it would make musical sense. It can also be jarring if it occurs willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.
Note that in a symphony orchestra, the number of different instruments will typically be much greater than the number of different musical lines that be maintained simultaneously. The most useful way to employ a symphony orchestra will thus often be to have various groups of instruments play various sections of music in parallel octaves or, less commonly, fifths, so that they sound--for those sections of music--like unified more powerful instruments. Note that when using parallel fifths, the part that's up a fifth should generally played on an instrument with a relatively "pure" tone, such as a flute.
Two instruments which play parallel fifths or octaves will often sound like a single more powerful instrument. The extent to which this occurs will generally depend on the particular instruments involved. This effect can be very useful if employed in places where it would make musical sense. It can also be jarring if it occurs willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.
Note that in a symphony orchestra, the number of different instruments will typically be much greater than the number of different musical lines that be maintained simultaneously. The most useful way to employ a symphony orchestra will thus often be to have various groups of instruments play various sections of music in parallel octaves or, less commonly, fifths, so that they sound--for those sections of music--like unified more powerful instruments. Note that when using parallel fifths, the part that's up a fifth should generally played on an instrument with a relatively "pure" tone, such as a flute.
answered 3 hours ago
supercatsupercat
2,4901015
2,4901015
But that isn’t parallel motion (well not in the sense being used when talking about counterpoint) that’s just doubling. Doubling a voice in multiple octaves happens all the time even in solo piano music of the common-practice era; it’s only at the level of the fundamental voices that it’s generally avoided.
– Pat Muchmore
49 mins ago
@PatMuchmore If the doubling only happens sometimes, then it's still parallel. And you really need to make an Answer about this, because there's no reason to assume the OP makes such distinctions.
– trlkly
29 mins ago
@trlkly Yes, there is a point at which the distinction can become quite nuanced, you’re right. Separate lines coalesce into a single voice temporarily, and then separate later, and it isn’t always easy to make a distinction between legitimate doubling and un-stylistic voice leading. At any rate, I did write an answer, and tried to address the central confusion of the OP’s post, maybe I failed.
– Pat Muchmore
7 mins ago
add a comment |
But that isn’t parallel motion (well not in the sense being used when talking about counterpoint) that’s just doubling. Doubling a voice in multiple octaves happens all the time even in solo piano music of the common-practice era; it’s only at the level of the fundamental voices that it’s generally avoided.
– Pat Muchmore
49 mins ago
@PatMuchmore If the doubling only happens sometimes, then it's still parallel. And you really need to make an Answer about this, because there's no reason to assume the OP makes such distinctions.
– trlkly
29 mins ago
@trlkly Yes, there is a point at which the distinction can become quite nuanced, you’re right. Separate lines coalesce into a single voice temporarily, and then separate later, and it isn’t always easy to make a distinction between legitimate doubling and un-stylistic voice leading. At any rate, I did write an answer, and tried to address the central confusion of the OP’s post, maybe I failed.
– Pat Muchmore
7 mins ago
But that isn’t parallel motion (well not in the sense being used when talking about counterpoint) that’s just doubling. Doubling a voice in multiple octaves happens all the time even in solo piano music of the common-practice era; it’s only at the level of the fundamental voices that it’s generally avoided.
– Pat Muchmore
49 mins ago
But that isn’t parallel motion (well not in the sense being used when talking about counterpoint) that’s just doubling. Doubling a voice in multiple octaves happens all the time even in solo piano music of the common-practice era; it’s only at the level of the fundamental voices that it’s generally avoided.
– Pat Muchmore
49 mins ago
@PatMuchmore If the doubling only happens sometimes, then it's still parallel. And you really need to make an Answer about this, because there's no reason to assume the OP makes such distinctions.
– trlkly
29 mins ago
@PatMuchmore If the doubling only happens sometimes, then it's still parallel. And you really need to make an Answer about this, because there's no reason to assume the OP makes such distinctions.
– trlkly
29 mins ago
@trlkly Yes, there is a point at which the distinction can become quite nuanced, you’re right. Separate lines coalesce into a single voice temporarily, and then separate later, and it isn’t always easy to make a distinction between legitimate doubling and un-stylistic voice leading. At any rate, I did write an answer, and tried to address the central confusion of the OP’s post, maybe I failed.
– Pat Muchmore
7 mins ago
@trlkly Yes, there is a point at which the distinction can become quite nuanced, you’re right. Separate lines coalesce into a single voice temporarily, and then separate later, and it isn’t always easy to make a distinction between legitimate doubling and un-stylistic voice leading. At any rate, I did write an answer, and tried to address the central confusion of the OP’s post, maybe I failed.
– Pat Muchmore
7 mins ago
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Imagine Violoncello and Doublebass: the will play octava parallels in any style. So don't mind the parallel fifths in orchestra voicing. It's not a question of "take care" it's a question of counterpoint and opposite motion. If you want it or if you need it ... do what you must do.
– Albrecht Hügli
4 hours ago
@AlbrechtHügli That’s not parallel octaves, that’s just doubling at the octave. Parallel octaves and fifths refer to the relationship between two entirely different voices, not just multiple lines playing the same voice.
– Pat Muchmore
53 mins ago