How is the claim “I am in New York only if I am in America” the same as "If I am in New York, then I am in America?What is the difference between “necessary” and “sufficient”?What are the truth tables for “necessary” and “sufficient”?What is a good argument against “ad populum”?What distinguishes logical necessity, logical consequence, logical truth, and tautology from one another?Connectives, polarity and logical atoms in Linear logicPeirce's law, law of the excluded middle, and intuitionism.Syllogistic Logic: Negation of a Categorical Proposition?Are there exceptions to the principle of the excluded middle?How can you rewrite without any conditionals 'If A then B; A; therefore B' ?Formal Logic: Truth-Value AnalysisCan one think outside of logical rules? If so how?Modus Ponens as Substitute for Syllogism

Is it possible to do 50 km distance without any previous training?

Why are electrically insulating heatsinks so rare? Is it just cost?

How to regain access to running applications after accidentally zapping X.org?

Can I make popcorn with any corn?

What would happen to a modern skyscraper if it rains micro blackholes?

Operational amplifier as a comparator at high frequency

How is it possible to have an ability score that is less than 3?

Has there ever been an airliner design involving reducing generator load by installing solar panels?

What defenses are there against being summoned by the Gate spell?

Why "Having chlorophyll without photosynthesis is actually very dangerous" and "like living with a bomb"?

What is the word for reserving something for yourself before others do?

Did Shadowfax go to Valinor?

Why is Minecraft giving an OpenGL error?

Maximum likelihood parameters deviate from posterior distributions

Horror movie about a virus at the prom; beginning and end are stylized as a cartoon

Two films in a tank, only one comes out with a development error – why?

What typically incentivizes a professor to change jobs to a lower ranking university?

A newer friend of my brother's gave him a load of baseball cards that are supposedly extremely valuable. Is this a scam?

Mortgage Pre-approval / Loan - Apply Alone or with Fiancée?

Accidentally leaked the solution to an assignment, what to do now? (I'm the prof)

Question on branch cuts and branch points

Why is 150k or 200k jobs considered good when there's 300k+ births a month?

Was any UN Security Council vote triple-vetoed?

Uncaught TypeError: 'set' on proxy: trap returned falsish for property Name



How is the claim “I am in New York only if I am in America” the same as "If I am in New York, then I am in America?


What is the difference between “necessary” and “sufficient”?What are the truth tables for “necessary” and “sufficient”?What is a good argument against “ad populum”?What distinguishes logical necessity, logical consequence, logical truth, and tautology from one another?Connectives, polarity and logical atoms in Linear logicPeirce's law, law of the excluded middle, and intuitionism.Syllogistic Logic: Negation of a Categorical Proposition?Are there exceptions to the principle of the excluded middle?How can you rewrite without any conditionals 'If A then B; A; therefore B' ?Formal Logic: Truth-Value AnalysisCan one think outside of logical rules? If so how?Modus Ponens as Substitute for Syllogism













7















It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 1





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    8 hours ago












  • I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

    – Frank Hubeny
    7 hours ago






  • 8





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    5 hours ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    1 hour ago











  • @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    1 hour ago
















7















It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 1





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    8 hours ago












  • I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

    – Frank Hubeny
    7 hours ago






  • 8





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    5 hours ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    1 hour ago











  • @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    1 hour ago














7












7








7








It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks







logic






share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 7 hours ago









Frank Hubeny

9,87251554




9,87251554






New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 9 hours ago









MinigameZ moreMinigameZ more

815




815




New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 1





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    8 hours ago












  • I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

    – Frank Hubeny
    7 hours ago






  • 8





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    5 hours ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    1 hour ago











  • @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    1 hour ago













  • 1





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    8 hours ago












  • I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

    – Frank Hubeny
    7 hours ago






  • 8





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    5 hours ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    1 hour ago











  • @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    1 hour ago








1




1





Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
8 hours ago






Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
8 hours ago














I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago





I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago




8




8





Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

– Richard II
5 hours ago





Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

– Richard II
5 hours ago













Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

– Mark Schultheiss
1 hour ago





Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

– Mark Schultheiss
1 hour ago













@MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

– user34150
1 hour ago






@MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

– user34150
1 hour ago











8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes


















14














Consider the sentence:




If I am in America then I am in New York.




One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



However, consider this sentence:




If I am in New York then I am in America.




Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



It would be similar for the following sentence:




I am in New York only if I am in America.




Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






share|improve this answer























  • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

    – Brilliand
    14 mins ago


















11














This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



The formulation




X only if Y




is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




If X then Y




Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




If Y then X




which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






share|improve this answer






























    5














    "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



    The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



    "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



    The two are equivalent.



    See necessary and sufficient.






    share|improve this answer
































      2














      I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




      I am in New York (only if I am in America).



      If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



      New York => America.




      This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




      I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



      If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



      America => New York.




      This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















      • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

        – Brilliand
        18 mins ago


















      1














      These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



      The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



      The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.



























        1














        The contrapositive of both statements is :



        If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


        A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






        share|improve this answer






























          0














          LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



          You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          • That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

            – Eliran
            23 mins ago


















          0














          The statement makes no sense because it is inaccurate. There are multiple places named New York in multiple countries.
          There are 7 places named New York in America.
          There are 2 places named New York in Jamaica.
          There is one place named New York in South Africa.
          There is one place named New York in Singapore.
          There is one place named New York in Mexico.
          There is one place named New York in Italy.
          There is one place named New York in Honduras.
          There is one place named New York in United Kingdom.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          • The question is why "if A then B" is considered equivalent to "A only if B". Whether or not the original statement about New York is true is irrelevant.

            – Eliran
            14 mins ago












          • Except it isn’t because the premise is wrong

            – Stevetech
            14 mins ago











          Your Answer








          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "265"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader:
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          ,
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );






          MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphilosophy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f61623%2fhow-is-the-claim-i-am-in-new-york-only-if-i-am-in-america-the-same-as-if-i-am%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          8 Answers
          8






          active

          oldest

          votes








          8 Answers
          8






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          14














          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer























          • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            14 mins ago















          14














          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer























          • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            14 mins ago













          14












          14








          14







          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer













          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 7 hours ago









          Frank HubenyFrank Hubeny

          9,87251554




          9,87251554












          • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            14 mins ago

















          • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            14 mins ago
















          This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

          – Brilliand
          14 mins ago





          This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

          – Brilliand
          14 mins ago











          11














          This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



          The formulation




          X only if Y




          is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




          If X then Y




          Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




          If Y then X




          which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






          share|improve this answer



























            11














            This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



            The formulation




            X only if Y




            is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




            If X then Y




            Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




            If Y then X




            which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






            share|improve this answer

























              11












              11








              11







              This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



              The formulation




              X only if Y




              is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




              If X then Y




              Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




              If Y then X




              which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






              share|improve this answer













              This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



              The formulation




              X only if Y




              is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




              If X then Y




              Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




              If Y then X




              which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 6 hours ago









              Chris SunamiChris Sunami

              21.1k12964




              21.1k12964





















                  5














                  "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



                  The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



                  "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



                  The two are equivalent.



                  See necessary and sufficient.






                  share|improve this answer





























                    5














                    "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



                    The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



                    "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



                    The two are equivalent.



                    See necessary and sufficient.






                    share|improve this answer



























                      5












                      5








                      5







                      "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



                      The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



                      "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



                      The two are equivalent.



                      See necessary and sufficient.






                      share|improve this answer















                      "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



                      The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



                      "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



                      The two are equivalent.



                      See necessary and sufficient.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 6 hours ago

























                      answered 8 hours ago









                      Mauro ALLEGRANZAMauro ALLEGRANZA

                      29.5k22065




                      29.5k22065





















                          2














                          I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                          I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                          If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                          New York => America.




                          This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                          I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                          If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                          America => New York.




                          This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                          • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                            – Brilliand
                            18 mins ago















                          2














                          I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                          I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                          If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                          New York => America.




                          This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                          I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                          If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                          America => New York.




                          This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                          • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                            – Brilliand
                            18 mins ago













                          2












                          2








                          2







                          I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                          I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                          If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                          New York => America.




                          This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                          I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                          If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                          America => New York.




                          This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.










                          I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                          I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                          If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                          New York => America.




                          This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                          I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                          If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                          America => New York.




                          This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.







                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer






                          New contributor




                          usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          answered 4 hours ago









                          usulusul

                          1212




                          1212




                          New contributor




                          usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                          New contributor





                          usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                          usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.












                          • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                            – Brilliand
                            18 mins ago

















                          • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                            – Brilliand
                            18 mins ago
















                          My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                          – Brilliand
                          18 mins ago





                          My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                          – Brilliand
                          18 mins ago











                          1














                          These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                          The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                          The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.
























                            1














                            These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                            The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                            The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                              1












                              1








                              1







                              These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                              The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                              The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.










                              These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                              The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                              The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.







                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer






                              New contributor




                              Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              answered 1 hour ago









                              IanIan

                              1112




                              1112




                              New contributor




                              Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.





                              New contributor





                              Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                              Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                                  1














                                  The contrapositive of both statements is :



                                  If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                                  A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                                  share|improve this answer



























                                    1














                                    The contrapositive of both statements is :



                                    If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                                    A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                                    share|improve this answer

























                                      1












                                      1








                                      1







                                      The contrapositive of both statements is :



                                      If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                                      A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                                      share|improve this answer













                                      The contrapositive of both statements is :



                                      If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                                      A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 44 mins ago









                                      Eric DuminilEric Duminil

                                      90649




                                      90649





















                                          0














                                          LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



                                          You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                          • That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                            – Eliran
                                            23 mins ago















                                          0














                                          LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



                                          You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                          • That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                            – Eliran
                                            23 mins ago













                                          0












                                          0








                                          0







                                          LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



                                          You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.










                                          LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



                                          You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy







                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer






                                          New contributor




                                          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          answered 58 mins ago









                                          MaxWMaxW

                                          91




                                          91




                                          New contributor




                                          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                          New contributor





                                          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          MaxW is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.












                                          • That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                            – Eliran
                                            23 mins ago

















                                          • That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                            – Eliran
                                            23 mins ago
















                                          That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                          – Eliran
                                          23 mins ago





                                          That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                          – Eliran
                                          23 mins ago











                                          0














                                          The statement makes no sense because it is inaccurate. There are multiple places named New York in multiple countries.
                                          There are 7 places named New York in America.
                                          There are 2 places named New York in Jamaica.
                                          There is one place named New York in South Africa.
                                          There is one place named New York in Singapore.
                                          There is one place named New York in Mexico.
                                          There is one place named New York in Italy.
                                          There is one place named New York in Honduras.
                                          There is one place named New York in United Kingdom.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                          • The question is why "if A then B" is considered equivalent to "A only if B". Whether or not the original statement about New York is true is irrelevant.

                                            – Eliran
                                            14 mins ago












                                          • Except it isn’t because the premise is wrong

                                            – Stevetech
                                            14 mins ago















                                          0














                                          The statement makes no sense because it is inaccurate. There are multiple places named New York in multiple countries.
                                          There are 7 places named New York in America.
                                          There are 2 places named New York in Jamaica.
                                          There is one place named New York in South Africa.
                                          There is one place named New York in Singapore.
                                          There is one place named New York in Mexico.
                                          There is one place named New York in Italy.
                                          There is one place named New York in Honduras.
                                          There is one place named New York in United Kingdom.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                          • The question is why "if A then B" is considered equivalent to "A only if B". Whether or not the original statement about New York is true is irrelevant.

                                            – Eliran
                                            14 mins ago












                                          • Except it isn’t because the premise is wrong

                                            – Stevetech
                                            14 mins ago













                                          0












                                          0








                                          0







                                          The statement makes no sense because it is inaccurate. There are multiple places named New York in multiple countries.
                                          There are 7 places named New York in America.
                                          There are 2 places named New York in Jamaica.
                                          There is one place named New York in South Africa.
                                          There is one place named New York in Singapore.
                                          There is one place named New York in Mexico.
                                          There is one place named New York in Italy.
                                          There is one place named New York in Honduras.
                                          There is one place named New York in United Kingdom.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.










                                          The statement makes no sense because it is inaccurate. There are multiple places named New York in multiple countries.
                                          There are 7 places named New York in America.
                                          There are 2 places named New York in Jamaica.
                                          There is one place named New York in South Africa.
                                          There is one place named New York in Singapore.
                                          There is one place named New York in Mexico.
                                          There is one place named New York in Italy.
                                          There is one place named New York in Honduras.
                                          There is one place named New York in United Kingdom.







                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer






                                          New contributor




                                          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          answered 20 mins ago









                                          StevetechStevetech

                                          101




                                          101




                                          New contributor




                                          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                          New contributor





                                          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          Stevetech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.












                                          • The question is why "if A then B" is considered equivalent to "A only if B". Whether or not the original statement about New York is true is irrelevant.

                                            – Eliran
                                            14 mins ago












                                          • Except it isn’t because the premise is wrong

                                            – Stevetech
                                            14 mins ago

















                                          • The question is why "if A then B" is considered equivalent to "A only if B". Whether or not the original statement about New York is true is irrelevant.

                                            – Eliran
                                            14 mins ago












                                          • Except it isn’t because the premise is wrong

                                            – Stevetech
                                            14 mins ago
















                                          The question is why "if A then B" is considered equivalent to "A only if B". Whether or not the original statement about New York is true is irrelevant.

                                          – Eliran
                                          14 mins ago






                                          The question is why "if A then B" is considered equivalent to "A only if B". Whether or not the original statement about New York is true is irrelevant.

                                          – Eliran
                                          14 mins ago














                                          Except it isn’t because the premise is wrong

                                          – Stevetech
                                          14 mins ago





                                          Except it isn’t because the premise is wrong

                                          – Stevetech
                                          14 mins ago










                                          MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          draft saved

                                          draft discarded


















                                          MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                          MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                                          MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                                          Thanks for contributing an answer to Philosophy Stack Exchange!


                                          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                          But avoid


                                          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                          draft saved


                                          draft discarded














                                          StackExchange.ready(
                                          function ()
                                          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphilosophy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f61623%2fhow-is-the-claim-i-am-in-new-york-only-if-i-am-in-america-the-same-as-if-i-am%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                          );

                                          Post as a guest















                                          Required, but never shown





















































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown

































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Popular posts from this blog

                                          Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

                                          Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

                                          François Viète Contents Biography Work and thought Bibliography See also Notes Further reading External links Navigation menup. 21Google Bookspp. 75–77Google BooksDe thou (from University of Saint Andrews)ArchivedGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle booksGoogle Bookscc-parthenay.frL'histoire universelle (fr)Universal History (en)ArchivedAdsabs.harvard.eduPagesperso-orange.frArchive.orgChikara Sasaki. Descartes' mathematical thought p.259Google BooksGoogle BooksGoogle Bookspp. 152 and onwardGoogle BooksGoogle BooksScribd.comGoogle Books1257-7979Google BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGoogle BooksGallica.bnf.frGoogle BooksGoogle Books"François Viète"Francois Viète: Father of Modern Algebraic NotationThe Lawyer and the GamblerAbout TarporleySite de Jean-Paul GuichardL'algèbre nouvelle"About the Harmonicon"cb120511976(data)1188044800000 0001 0913 5903n82164680ola2013766880073431702w6vt1sb70287374827140948071409480