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Whence the -s- in “Stöpsel”
What is the origin of the phrase “Kennst du Wayne?!”Why is the -ow in place names pronounced the way it is?What is the origin of the word “Ursprung”?What's the origin of the word “Frauenzimmer”?On the etymology of “empfehlen”What is the origin of the word Gebühr?Etymology of “Mohn”The vowel “e” changes to the “a”The German letter “a” corresponds to the English letter “i”
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The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.
The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:
The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.
- That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.
-l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.
- This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:
-l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".
- Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.
Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.
etymology
asked 9 hours ago
vectoryvectory
93410 bronze badges
add a comment
|
The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.
The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:
The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.
- That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.
-l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.
- This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:
-l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".
- Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.
Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.
etymology
asked 9 hours ago
vectoryvectory
93410 bronze badges
It's basically a diminutive.
– πάντα ῥεῖ
8 hours ago
Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.
– Jan
3 hours ago
1
@Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'
– vectory
13 mins ago
add a comment
|
The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.
The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:
The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.
- That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.
-l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.
- This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:
-l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".
- Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.
Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.
etymology
asked 9 hours ago
vectoryvectory
93410 bronze badges
The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.
The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:
The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.
- That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.
-l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.
- This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:
-l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".
- Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.
Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.
etymology
etymology
asked 9 hours ago
vectoryvectory
93410 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
vectoryvectory
93410 bronze badges
edited 13 mins ago
vectory
asked 9 hours ago
vectoryvectory
93410 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
vectoryvectory
93410 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
vectoryvectory
93410 bronze badges
93410 bronze badges
It's basically a diminutive.
– πάντα ῥεῖ
8 hours ago
Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.
– Jan
3 hours ago
1
@Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'
– vectory
13 mins ago
add a comment
|
It's basically a diminutive.
– πάντα ῥεῖ
8 hours ago
Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.
– Jan
3 hours ago
1
@Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'
– vectory
13 mins ago
It's basically a diminutive.
– πάντα ῥεῖ
8 hours ago
It's basically a diminutive.
– πάντα ῥεῖ
8 hours ago
Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.
– Jan
3 hours ago
Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.
– Jan
3 hours ago
1
1
@Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'
– vectory
13 mins ago
@Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'
– vectory
13 mins ago
add a comment
|
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].
answered 8 hours ago
UweUwe
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
– Dan
1 hour ago
@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
– vectory
4 secs ago
add a comment
|
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].
answered 8 hours ago
UweUwe
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
– Dan
1 hour ago
@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
– vectory
4 secs ago
add a comment
|
The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].
answered 8 hours ago
UweUwe
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
– Dan
1 hour ago
@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
– vectory
4 secs ago
add a comment
|
The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].
answered 8 hours ago
UweUwe
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].
answered 8 hours ago
UweUwe
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
UweUwe
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
UweUwe
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
UweUwe
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges
A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
– Dan
1 hour ago
@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
– vectory
4 secs ago
add a comment
|
A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
– Dan
1 hour ago
@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
– vectory
4 secs ago
A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
– Dan
1 hour ago
A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
– Dan
1 hour ago
@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
– vectory
4 secs ago
@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
– vectory
4 secs ago
add a comment
|
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It's basically a diminutive.
– πάντα ῥεῖ
8 hours ago
Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.
– Jan
3 hours ago
1
@Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'
– vectory
13 mins ago