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Whence the -s- in “Stöpsel”


What is the origin of the phrase “Kennst du Wayne?!”Why is the -ow in place names pronounced the way it is?What is the origin of the word “Ursprung”?What's the origin of the word “Frauenzimmer”?On the etymology of “empfehlen”What is the origin of the word Gebühr?Etymology of “Mohn”The vowel “e” changes to the “a”The German letter “a” corresponds to the English letter “i”






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2

















The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.



The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:



  • The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.


    • That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.


  • -l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.


    • This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:


  • -l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".


    • Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.


Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.










share|improve this question




























  • It's basically a diminutive.

    – πάντα ῥεῖ
    8 hours ago











  • Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.

    – Jan
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'

    – vectory
    13 mins ago

















2

















The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.



The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:



  • The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.


    • That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.


  • -l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.


    • This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:


  • -l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".


    • Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.


Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.










share|improve this question




























  • It's basically a diminutive.

    – πάντα ῥεῖ
    8 hours ago











  • Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.

    – Jan
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'

    – vectory
    13 mins ago













2












2








2








The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.



The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:



  • The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.


    • That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.


  • -l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.


    • This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:


  • -l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".


    • Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.


Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.










share|improve this question

















The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.



The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:



  • The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.


    • That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.


  • -l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.


    • This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:


  • -l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".


    • Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.


Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.







etymology






share|improve this question
















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 13 mins ago







vectory

















asked 9 hours ago









vectoryvectory

93410 bronze badges




93410 bronze badges















  • It's basically a diminutive.

    – πάντα ῥεῖ
    8 hours ago











  • Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.

    – Jan
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'

    – vectory
    13 mins ago

















  • It's basically a diminutive.

    – πάντα ῥεῖ
    8 hours ago











  • Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.

    – Jan
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'

    – vectory
    13 mins ago
















It's basically a diminutive.

– πάντα ῥεῖ
8 hours ago





It's basically a diminutive.

– πάντα ῥεῖ
8 hours ago













Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.

– Jan
3 hours ago





Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.

– Jan
3 hours ago




1




1





@Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'

– vectory
13 mins ago





@Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'

– vectory
13 mins ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















5


















The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].






share|improve this answer


























  • A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?

    – Dan
    1 hour ago











  • @Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.

    – vectory
    4 secs ago












Your Answer








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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









5


















The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].






share|improve this answer


























  • A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?

    – Dan
    1 hour ago











  • @Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.

    – vectory
    4 secs ago















5


















The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].






share|improve this answer


























  • A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?

    – Dan
    1 hour ago











  • @Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.

    – vectory
    4 secs ago













5














5










5









The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].






share|improve this answer














The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].







share|improve this answer













share|improve this answer




share|improve this answer










answered 8 hours ago









UweUwe

8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges




8,3032 gold badges29 silver badges41 bronze badges















  • A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?

    – Dan
    1 hour ago











  • @Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.

    – vectory
    4 secs ago

















  • A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?

    – Dan
    1 hour ago











  • @Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.

    – vectory
    4 secs ago
















A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?

– Dan
1 hour ago





A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?

– Dan
1 hour ago













@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.

– vectory
4 secs ago





@Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.

– vectory
4 secs ago


















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