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Is Levitate supposed to basically disable a melee based enemy?
Pushing enemies into/over difficult terrain or cliffs in 5e?How can I tell how powerful an NPC is without being explicitly told?How can I create reasonably challenging encounters for large groups?Does this Sorcerer homebrew feature have more efficient than intended uses?How can I design an engaging combat with 4 tanks and one glass cannon?Does a magic weapon require the attuner to be proficient?Advice on TWO troublesome players and their charactersInstead of rolling for every creature hit by a spell, can we reasonably use a single additional die for the number of hits?How can I discourage/prevent PCs from using door choke-points?Adjusting power of Animate Dead in custom Dark Sun campaign with slower recovery mechanics (24-hour short rest, 1-week long rest)
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$begingroup$
We are a group of new players and I feel that I miss some important properties of the levitate spell as it proved extremely powerful in the last encounter in Cragmaw Castle in The Lost Mine of Phandelver.
The party caused a alarm to ring which caused the entire final group, with bodyguards, to prepare an ambush when they stormed the last room.
The Doppelgänger
managed to immediately down a player in the surprise round and after the rest of the enemies chucked away quite a bit of health as well it almost looked like it would become a full party wipe.
The wizard cast levitate on
The Doppelgänger
(and it failed the saving throw) which effectively disabled it. Thanks to the 10 minute duration and the wizard carefully saying that it "should float riiiiiight in the middle of the room" (so it couldn't grab any wall object to pull itself down) it wasn't able to do anything during the entire rest of the fight. From my understanding it was not allowed to re-try the saving throw on its next turn. The other enemies were not able to break the wizards concentration either as she was hiding behind the rest of the party in a small doorway which blocked the enemies from reaching her.
I'm happy the party managed to survive the encounter, but feel that casting levitate on any melee-based enemy could quickly become a effective, but boring, strategy. Is there anything in the rules I missed?
dnd-5e spells
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We are a group of new players and I feel that I miss some important properties of the levitate spell as it proved extremely powerful in the last encounter in Cragmaw Castle in The Lost Mine of Phandelver.
The party caused a alarm to ring which caused the entire final group, with bodyguards, to prepare an ambush when they stormed the last room.
The Doppelgänger
managed to immediately down a player in the surprise round and after the rest of the enemies chucked away quite a bit of health as well it almost looked like it would become a full party wipe.
The wizard cast levitate on
The Doppelgänger
(and it failed the saving throw) which effectively disabled it. Thanks to the 10 minute duration and the wizard carefully saying that it "should float riiiiiight in the middle of the room" (so it couldn't grab any wall object to pull itself down) it wasn't able to do anything during the entire rest of the fight. From my understanding it was not allowed to re-try the saving throw on its next turn. The other enemies were not able to break the wizards concentration either as she was hiding behind the rest of the party in a small doorway which blocked the enemies from reaching her.
I'm happy the party managed to survive the encounter, but feel that casting levitate on any melee-based enemy could quickly become a effective, but boring, strategy. Is there anything in the rules I missed?
dnd-5e spells
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
$endgroup$
– Daniel R. Collins
12 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We are a group of new players and I feel that I miss some important properties of the levitate spell as it proved extremely powerful in the last encounter in Cragmaw Castle in The Lost Mine of Phandelver.
The party caused a alarm to ring which caused the entire final group, with bodyguards, to prepare an ambush when they stormed the last room.
The Doppelgänger
managed to immediately down a player in the surprise round and after the rest of the enemies chucked away quite a bit of health as well it almost looked like it would become a full party wipe.
The wizard cast levitate on
The Doppelgänger
(and it failed the saving throw) which effectively disabled it. Thanks to the 10 minute duration and the wizard carefully saying that it "should float riiiiiight in the middle of the room" (so it couldn't grab any wall object to pull itself down) it wasn't able to do anything during the entire rest of the fight. From my understanding it was not allowed to re-try the saving throw on its next turn. The other enemies were not able to break the wizards concentration either as she was hiding behind the rest of the party in a small doorway which blocked the enemies from reaching her.
I'm happy the party managed to survive the encounter, but feel that casting levitate on any melee-based enemy could quickly become a effective, but boring, strategy. Is there anything in the rules I missed?
dnd-5e spells
New contributor
$endgroup$
We are a group of new players and I feel that I miss some important properties of the levitate spell as it proved extremely powerful in the last encounter in Cragmaw Castle in The Lost Mine of Phandelver.
The party caused a alarm to ring which caused the entire final group, with bodyguards, to prepare an ambush when they stormed the last room.
The Doppelgänger
managed to immediately down a player in the surprise round and after the rest of the enemies chucked away quite a bit of health as well it almost looked like it would become a full party wipe.
The wizard cast levitate on
The Doppelgänger
(and it failed the saving throw) which effectively disabled it. Thanks to the 10 minute duration and the wizard carefully saying that it "should float riiiiiight in the middle of the room" (so it couldn't grab any wall object to pull itself down) it wasn't able to do anything during the entire rest of the fight. From my understanding it was not allowed to re-try the saving throw on its next turn. The other enemies were not able to break the wizards concentration either as she was hiding behind the rest of the party in a small doorway which blocked the enemies from reaching her.
I'm happy the party managed to survive the encounter, but feel that casting levitate on any melee-based enemy could quickly become a effective, but boring, strategy. Is there anything in the rules I missed?
dnd-5e spells
dnd-5e spells
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 8 hours ago
Nijin22Nijin22
1383 bronze badges
1383 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
$begingroup$
Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
$endgroup$
– Daniel R. Collins
12 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
$endgroup$
– Daniel R. Collins
12 mins ago
$begingroup$
Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
$endgroup$
– Daniel R. Collins
12 mins ago
$begingroup$
Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
$endgroup$
– Daniel R. Collins
12 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly
Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.
An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.
Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.
- If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.
Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.
What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.
A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).
That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action
You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:
"The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"
So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.
Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.
(Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly
Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.
An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.
Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.
- If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.
Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.
What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.
A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).
That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly
Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.
An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.
Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.
- If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.
Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.
What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.
A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).
That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly
Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.
An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.
Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.
- If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.
Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.
What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.
A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).
That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.
$endgroup$
You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly
Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.
An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.
Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.
- If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.
Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.
What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.
A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).
That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
KorvinStarmastKorvinStarmast
95.1k23 gold badges318 silver badges510 bronze badges
95.1k23 gold badges318 silver badges510 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action
You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:
"The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"
So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.
Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.
(Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action
You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:
"The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"
So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.
Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.
(Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action
You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:
"The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"
So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.
Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.
(Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).
$endgroup$
Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action
You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:
"The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"
So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.
Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.
(Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).
answered 8 hours ago
PJRZPJRZ
15.7k1 gold badge52 silver badges73 bronze badges
15.7k1 gold badge52 silver badges73 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Nijin22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Nijin22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Nijin22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Nijin22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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$begingroup$
Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
$endgroup$
– Daniel R. Collins
12 mins ago