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Is Levitate supposed to basically disable a melee based enemy?


Pushing enemies into/over difficult terrain or cliffs in 5e?How can I tell how powerful an NPC is without being explicitly told?How can I create reasonably challenging encounters for large groups?Does this Sorcerer homebrew feature have more efficient than intended uses?How can I design an engaging combat with 4 tanks and one glass cannon?Does a magic weapon require the attuner to be proficient?Advice on TWO troublesome players and their charactersInstead of rolling for every creature hit by a spell, can we reasonably use a single additional die for the number of hits?How can I discourage/prevent PCs from using door choke-points?Adjusting power of Animate Dead in custom Dark Sun campaign with slower recovery mechanics (24-hour short rest, 1-week long rest)






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








7












$begingroup$


We are a group of new players and I feel that I miss some important properties of the levitate spell as it proved extremely powerful in the last encounter in Cragmaw Castle in The Lost Mine of Phandelver.



The party caused a alarm to ring which caused the entire final group, with bodyguards, to prepare an ambush when they stormed the last room.




The Doppelgänger




managed to immediately down a player in the surprise round and after the rest of the enemies chucked away quite a bit of health as well it almost looked like it would become a full party wipe.



The wizard cast levitate on




The Doppelgänger




(and it failed the saving throw) which effectively disabled it. Thanks to the 10 minute duration and the wizard carefully saying that it "should float riiiiiight in the middle of the room" (so it couldn't grab any wall object to pull itself down) it wasn't able to do anything during the entire rest of the fight. From my understanding it was not allowed to re-try the saving throw on its next turn. The other enemies were not able to break the wizards concentration either as she was hiding behind the rest of the party in a small doorway which blocked the enemies from reaching her.



I'm happy the party managed to survive the encounter, but feel that casting levitate on any melee-based enemy could quickly become a effective, but boring, strategy. Is there anything in the rules I missed?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Nijin22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel R. Collins
    12 mins ago

















7












$begingroup$


We are a group of new players and I feel that I miss some important properties of the levitate spell as it proved extremely powerful in the last encounter in Cragmaw Castle in The Lost Mine of Phandelver.



The party caused a alarm to ring which caused the entire final group, with bodyguards, to prepare an ambush when they stormed the last room.




The Doppelgänger




managed to immediately down a player in the surprise round and after the rest of the enemies chucked away quite a bit of health as well it almost looked like it would become a full party wipe.



The wizard cast levitate on




The Doppelgänger




(and it failed the saving throw) which effectively disabled it. Thanks to the 10 minute duration and the wizard carefully saying that it "should float riiiiiight in the middle of the room" (so it couldn't grab any wall object to pull itself down) it wasn't able to do anything during the entire rest of the fight. From my understanding it was not allowed to re-try the saving throw on its next turn. The other enemies were not able to break the wizards concentration either as she was hiding behind the rest of the party in a small doorway which blocked the enemies from reaching her.



I'm happy the party managed to survive the encounter, but feel that casting levitate on any melee-based enemy could quickly become a effective, but boring, strategy. Is there anything in the rules I missed?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Nijin22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel R. Collins
    12 mins ago













7












7








7


1



$begingroup$


We are a group of new players and I feel that I miss some important properties of the levitate spell as it proved extremely powerful in the last encounter in Cragmaw Castle in The Lost Mine of Phandelver.



The party caused a alarm to ring which caused the entire final group, with bodyguards, to prepare an ambush when they stormed the last room.




The Doppelgänger




managed to immediately down a player in the surprise round and after the rest of the enemies chucked away quite a bit of health as well it almost looked like it would become a full party wipe.



The wizard cast levitate on




The Doppelgänger




(and it failed the saving throw) which effectively disabled it. Thanks to the 10 minute duration and the wizard carefully saying that it "should float riiiiiight in the middle of the room" (so it couldn't grab any wall object to pull itself down) it wasn't able to do anything during the entire rest of the fight. From my understanding it was not allowed to re-try the saving throw on its next turn. The other enemies were not able to break the wizards concentration either as she was hiding behind the rest of the party in a small doorway which blocked the enemies from reaching her.



I'm happy the party managed to survive the encounter, but feel that casting levitate on any melee-based enemy could quickly become a effective, but boring, strategy. Is there anything in the rules I missed?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Nijin22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




We are a group of new players and I feel that I miss some important properties of the levitate spell as it proved extremely powerful in the last encounter in Cragmaw Castle in The Lost Mine of Phandelver.



The party caused a alarm to ring which caused the entire final group, with bodyguards, to prepare an ambush when they stormed the last room.




The Doppelgänger




managed to immediately down a player in the surprise round and after the rest of the enemies chucked away quite a bit of health as well it almost looked like it would become a full party wipe.



The wizard cast levitate on




The Doppelgänger




(and it failed the saving throw) which effectively disabled it. Thanks to the 10 minute duration and the wizard carefully saying that it "should float riiiiiight in the middle of the room" (so it couldn't grab any wall object to pull itself down) it wasn't able to do anything during the entire rest of the fight. From my understanding it was not allowed to re-try the saving throw on its next turn. The other enemies were not able to break the wizards concentration either as she was hiding behind the rest of the party in a small doorway which blocked the enemies from reaching her.



I'm happy the party managed to survive the encounter, but feel that casting levitate on any melee-based enemy could quickly become a effective, but boring, strategy. Is there anything in the rules I missed?







dnd-5e spells






share|improve this question







New contributor



Nijin22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question







New contributor



Nijin22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




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asked 8 hours ago









Nijin22Nijin22

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  • $begingroup$
    Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel R. Collins
    12 mins ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel R. Collins
    12 mins ago















$begingroup$
Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
Everyone, please keep answering in the answers section only. Thanks! See here for more explanation.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
8 hours ago













$begingroup$
Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
$endgroup$
– Daniel R. Collins
12 mins ago




$begingroup$
Interestingly in the earliest incarnations (OD&D '74, or the B/X line), the spell could only be used on the caster. Perhaps the expansion was a bit of a mistake.
$endgroup$
– Daniel R. Collins
12 mins ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















11














$begingroup$

You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly



Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.



An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.



Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.



  • If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
    response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.

Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.



What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.



A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).



That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    7 hours ago


















8














$begingroup$

Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action



You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:




"The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"




So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.



Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.



(Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).






share|improve this answer









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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    11














    $begingroup$

    You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly



    Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.



    An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.



    Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.



    • If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
      response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.

    Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.



    What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.



    A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).



    That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$














    • $begingroup$
      Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
      $endgroup$
      – KorvinStarmast
      7 hours ago















    11














    $begingroup$

    You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly



    Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.



    An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.



    Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.



    • If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
      response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.

    Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.



    What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.



    A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).



    That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$














    • $begingroup$
      Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
      $endgroup$
      – KorvinStarmast
      7 hours ago













    11














    11










    11







    $begingroup$

    You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly



    Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.



    An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.



    Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.



    • If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
      response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.

    Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.



    What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.



    A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).



    That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    You didn't miss any rules; levitate can do that if used cleverly



    Your party's wizard was being clever and resourceful. And your question has in it the key to your answer: the enemy did not make the saving throw.



    An additional point: the party acted with good tactical sense, by preventing the wizard from taking damage and thus being subject to a concentration save. That's two smart things your wizard, and your party, did.



    Something to consider: a levitated enemy can still cast spells or throw missiles, or even give orders to underlings, which a held or Tasha's laughing enemy cannot. That your party's wizard used positioning well is good.



    • If the DM/monster didn't consider using thrown weapons or spells as a
      response to its predicament, tuck that into your "for future reference" folder.

    Had the enemy made the saving throw your party's wizard would have spent a precious second level spell slot and Nothing Would Have Happened. This is one of those "all or nothing" risks taken during combat. Likewise, a concentration check, failed, creates a "nothing" consequence.



    What you are seeing is how swingy the "save or suffer" spell family is.



    A similar thing is true about the mentally, rather than physically, controlling spells: hold* person, hold monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, dominate, and a variety other control spells that are intended to put an enemy out of action. (Hence "battlefield control" as a thing that casters can specialize in).



    That's intended - taking an opponent out of a fight to make the rest of the party's job easier - but the risk is that the enemy makes the save and the spell does exactly nothing.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 7 hours ago

























    answered 8 hours ago









    KorvinStarmastKorvinStarmast

    95.1k23 gold badges318 silver badges510 bronze badges




    95.1k23 gold badges318 silver badges510 bronze badges














    • $begingroup$
      Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
      $endgroup$
      – KorvinStarmast
      7 hours ago
















    • $begingroup$
      Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
      $endgroup$
      – KorvinStarmast
      7 hours ago















    $begingroup$
    Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Big difference (as OP noted) is that levitate doesn't require further saves like those others do.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    You're not wrong :) But I don't hold it entirely with the rest of the SoS family because there isn't a chance to 'break' it each round (and it does allow other actions, too.) But against a pure melee target that has no ranged options (as described by OP), it shuts them down and doesn't require save unless the wizard breaks concentration.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch You are right about that; it does nothing to the will or the ability to think/act at range. I may need to edit that. Good catch.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    7 hours ago













    8














    $begingroup$

    Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action



    You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:




    "The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
    or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"




    So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.



    Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.



    (Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



















      8














      $begingroup$

      Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action



      You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:




      "The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
      or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"




      So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.



      Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.



      (Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        8














        8










        8







        $begingroup$

        Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action



        You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:




        "The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
        or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"




        So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.



        Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.



        (Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Yes, a levitate can put a melee-only enemy out of action



        You have already stated the relevant part of the spell:




        "The target can move only by pushing or pulling against a fixed object
        or surface within reach (such as a wall or a ceiling)"




        So if you managed to levitate a creature into the middle of the room (with a high enough ceiling) then they will not be able to move.



        Nothing stops them from using ranged attacks, spells and so on if they have them. But if their only attack is a melee weapon then they are pretty much stuck.



        (Of course, PCs will not be able to attack them back without using ranged weapons or spells themselves).







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 8 hours ago









        PJRZPJRZ

        15.7k1 gold badge52 silver badges73 bronze badges




        15.7k1 gold badge52 silver badges73 bronze badges























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