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Replacing old plug-in 220V range with new hardwire 3-wire electric cooktop: remove outlet or add a plug?
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Replacing old plug-in 220V range with new hardwire 3-wire electric cooktop: remove outlet or add a plug?
What amp breaker for 20 Amp electrical oven and 40 Amp electrical range on same circuitHow do I wire a brand new cooktop that has no white neutral wire?How do I wire a new range to old wiring?Connecting the four terminals of a 14-50P to a homebrew 240v system with three wiresCan I use 6-2 NM W/G when running a new 50A branch circuit to my cooktop?Replacement cooktop wiring question220v 30amp 4 Wire to 3 Wire BandsawHow can I tell if this appliance, a kiln, is using 208V single phase or three phase?Industrial 3-phase.wiringSwitching new dimmer for old dimmer
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My apartment had an electric range which plugged into NEMA 10-30P/10-50P and was served by two 50A circuits. I will be installing electric/220V induction cooktop using the same circuits.
There are three wires in the plug (red, black and white).
There are three wires in the new cooktop (red, black and green).
Instructions say to connect the green wire from the cooktop to the white wire from the wall. So far so good, except the outlet will need to be removed and some sort of extension box will need to be put in its place to allow the connection in the back of the cabinet.
Is it possible instead to put a plug at the end of the cooktop 3-wire cable? If yes, then is there an advantage to doing that rather than hardwiring it?
Electrical requirements for new cooktop:
3-wire or 4-wire single phase 208 or 240 volt AC, 60-Hz, on dedicated double pole circuit breaker of at least 40 amps.
For the old range:
"You must use a single-phase, 120/208 VAC or 120/240 VAC, 60 hertz electrical system. ... connected to an individual, properly grounded, 40 amp (minimum) branch circuit"
I'm in NYC if that matters.
Here is my attempt at picture of the top of the J box behind the plug:
And here is the sub-panel showing the three wires in question:
electrical kitchens 240v
|
show 12 more comments
My apartment had an electric range which plugged into NEMA 10-30P/10-50P and was served by two 50A circuits. I will be installing electric/220V induction cooktop using the same circuits.
There are three wires in the plug (red, black and white).
There are three wires in the new cooktop (red, black and green).
Instructions say to connect the green wire from the cooktop to the white wire from the wall. So far so good, except the outlet will need to be removed and some sort of extension box will need to be put in its place to allow the connection in the back of the cabinet.
Is it possible instead to put a plug at the end of the cooktop 3-wire cable? If yes, then is there an advantage to doing that rather than hardwiring it?
Electrical requirements for new cooktop:
3-wire or 4-wire single phase 208 or 240 volt AC, 60-Hz, on dedicated double pole circuit breaker of at least 40 amps.
For the old range:
"You must use a single-phase, 120/208 VAC or 120/240 VAC, 60 hertz electrical system. ... connected to an individual, properly grounded, 40 amp (minimum) branch circuit"
I'm in NYC if that matters.
Here is my attempt at picture of the top of the J box behind the plug:
And here is the sub-panel showing the three wires in question:
electrical kitchens 240v
btw new cooktop says that if wiring to 4-wire then to leave white wire from power supply capped off as it's unused.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
Is that 50A breaker in your main panel (where the main breaker is), or in a subpanel? Also, can you post a closeup of where the wires to the range outlet enter the outlet box?
– ThreePhaseEel
8 hours ago
1
Also, 3" sounds like an illogically large diameter for the flex whip -- I'm thinking it's either 1/2" or 3/4"
– ThreePhaseEel
5 hours ago
2
These facts: a) you're in NYC b) in a large commercial complex c) surely well inspected d) metal boxes with what looks like AC (not MC) cable, and e) no ground wires in the entire place, yet grounds test good -- combine to be a very strong signal that grounding is present at boxes via AC cables or conduits. My facilities are the same way, no ground wires in 4 buildings.
– Harper
5 hours ago
1
Sorry was measuring circumference! Looks like 3/4.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
My apartment had an electric range which plugged into NEMA 10-30P/10-50P and was served by two 50A circuits. I will be installing electric/220V induction cooktop using the same circuits.
There are three wires in the plug (red, black and white).
There are three wires in the new cooktop (red, black and green).
Instructions say to connect the green wire from the cooktop to the white wire from the wall. So far so good, except the outlet will need to be removed and some sort of extension box will need to be put in its place to allow the connection in the back of the cabinet.
Is it possible instead to put a plug at the end of the cooktop 3-wire cable? If yes, then is there an advantage to doing that rather than hardwiring it?
Electrical requirements for new cooktop:
3-wire or 4-wire single phase 208 or 240 volt AC, 60-Hz, on dedicated double pole circuit breaker of at least 40 amps.
For the old range:
"You must use a single-phase, 120/208 VAC or 120/240 VAC, 60 hertz electrical system. ... connected to an individual, properly grounded, 40 amp (minimum) branch circuit"
I'm in NYC if that matters.
Here is my attempt at picture of the top of the J box behind the plug:
And here is the sub-panel showing the three wires in question:
electrical kitchens 240v
My apartment had an electric range which plugged into NEMA 10-30P/10-50P and was served by two 50A circuits. I will be installing electric/220V induction cooktop using the same circuits.
There are three wires in the plug (red, black and white).
There are three wires in the new cooktop (red, black and green).
Instructions say to connect the green wire from the cooktop to the white wire from the wall. So far so good, except the outlet will need to be removed and some sort of extension box will need to be put in its place to allow the connection in the back of the cabinet.
Is it possible instead to put a plug at the end of the cooktop 3-wire cable? If yes, then is there an advantage to doing that rather than hardwiring it?
Electrical requirements for new cooktop:
3-wire or 4-wire single phase 208 or 240 volt AC, 60-Hz, on dedicated double pole circuit breaker of at least 40 amps.
For the old range:
"You must use a single-phase, 120/208 VAC or 120/240 VAC, 60 hertz electrical system. ... connected to an individual, properly grounded, 40 amp (minimum) branch circuit"
I'm in NYC if that matters.
Here is my attempt at picture of the top of the J box behind the plug:
And here is the sub-panel showing the three wires in question:
electrical kitchens 240v
electrical kitchens 240v
edited 5 hours ago
Asya Kamsky
asked 8 hours ago
Asya KamskyAsya Kamsky
1548 bronze badges
1548 bronze badges
btw new cooktop says that if wiring to 4-wire then to leave white wire from power supply capped off as it's unused.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
Is that 50A breaker in your main panel (where the main breaker is), or in a subpanel? Also, can you post a closeup of where the wires to the range outlet enter the outlet box?
– ThreePhaseEel
8 hours ago
1
Also, 3" sounds like an illogically large diameter for the flex whip -- I'm thinking it's either 1/2" or 3/4"
– ThreePhaseEel
5 hours ago
2
These facts: a) you're in NYC b) in a large commercial complex c) surely well inspected d) metal boxes with what looks like AC (not MC) cable, and e) no ground wires in the entire place, yet grounds test good -- combine to be a very strong signal that grounding is present at boxes via AC cables or conduits. My facilities are the same way, no ground wires in 4 buildings.
– Harper
5 hours ago
1
Sorry was measuring circumference! Looks like 3/4.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
btw new cooktop says that if wiring to 4-wire then to leave white wire from power supply capped off as it's unused.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
Is that 50A breaker in your main panel (where the main breaker is), or in a subpanel? Also, can you post a closeup of where the wires to the range outlet enter the outlet box?
– ThreePhaseEel
8 hours ago
1
Also, 3" sounds like an illogically large diameter for the flex whip -- I'm thinking it's either 1/2" or 3/4"
– ThreePhaseEel
5 hours ago
2
These facts: a) you're in NYC b) in a large commercial complex c) surely well inspected d) metal boxes with what looks like AC (not MC) cable, and e) no ground wires in the entire place, yet grounds test good -- combine to be a very strong signal that grounding is present at boxes via AC cables or conduits. My facilities are the same way, no ground wires in 4 buildings.
– Harper
5 hours ago
1
Sorry was measuring circumference! Looks like 3/4.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
btw new cooktop says that if wiring to 4-wire then to leave white wire from power supply capped off as it's unused.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
btw new cooktop says that if wiring to 4-wire then to leave white wire from power supply capped off as it's unused.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
Is that 50A breaker in your main panel (where the main breaker is), or in a subpanel? Also, can you post a closeup of where the wires to the range outlet enter the outlet box?
– ThreePhaseEel
8 hours ago
Is that 50A breaker in your main panel (where the main breaker is), or in a subpanel? Also, can you post a closeup of where the wires to the range outlet enter the outlet box?
– ThreePhaseEel
8 hours ago
1
1
Also, 3" sounds like an illogically large diameter for the flex whip -- I'm thinking it's either 1/2" or 3/4"
– ThreePhaseEel
5 hours ago
Also, 3" sounds like an illogically large diameter for the flex whip -- I'm thinking it's either 1/2" or 3/4"
– ThreePhaseEel
5 hours ago
2
2
These facts: a) you're in NYC b) in a large commercial complex c) surely well inspected d) metal boxes with what looks like AC (not MC) cable, and e) no ground wires in the entire place, yet grounds test good -- combine to be a very strong signal that grounding is present at boxes via AC cables or conduits. My facilities are the same way, no ground wires in 4 buildings.
– Harper
5 hours ago
These facts: a) you're in NYC b) in a large commercial complex c) surely well inspected d) metal boxes with what looks like AC (not MC) cable, and e) no ground wires in the entire place, yet grounds test good -- combine to be a very strong signal that grounding is present at boxes via AC cables or conduits. My facilities are the same way, no ground wires in 4 buildings.
– Harper
5 hours ago
1
1
Sorry was measuring circumference! Looks like 3/4.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
Sorry was measuring circumference! Looks like 3/4.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
In NYC, you will have 208V power. It's 3-phase, but that won't be an issue.
Grounding path
Through discussion, we've determined fairly conclusively that a) this complex's wiring is grounded, and b) the grounding is via conduit or AC cable jackets, NOT individually run ground wires. OP reports that his "sub?" Panel has no ground wires at all, yet grounds check out on receptacles, so that indicates boxes are grounded and ground wires are not run (except inside AC cable).
You need to make sure that the wires from the wall are #8 or larger. (The paper padding makes it AC cable, whose internal wires are THHN, allowing the 75C column to be used for 50A).
If hardwiring
You need to connect the cooktop's green wire to the box*. The white wire in the box needs to be capped off.
However, there's a snag with hard-wiring. You can't just glorp the wires down "wherever". You need to have the wire-whip enter the box correctly, and that means through a knockout. That knockout needs to be on the face of the box, obviously, so you need a blank junction box cover that has a knockout on its face.
Easy enough, but you don't have a standard box. Your box presents the receptacle mounting screws for 2 abreast (e.g a 2-gang box) and lacks the corner screws that standard 4x4 box covers use.
So, you'll want to head to the best electrical supply in the city (goes without saying, that ain't a big-box store) and find the rare steel blank cover plate that attaches to the receptacle screws of a 2-gang. Ideally this will have a 1/2" or 3/4" trade size knockout on it, but if it doesn't, the shop may cheerfully punch it for you.
1/2" trade size actually uses a 7/8" knockout.
3/4" trade size uses a 1-1/8" knockout.
Cord-and-plug connection
If you want to cord-and-plug connect this, you need to change the receptacle. That thing is an obsolete, dangerous NEMA 10-50, and must be changed for this application because you need ground and NEMA 10 doesn't have it.
Fit a NEMA 14-50 receptacle. This has 4 wires. Fit the white wire to the neutral pin even though this cooktop doesn't use it.
On the cooktop, you'll be replacing the entire whip with a cord, not putting a plug on the end of the whip (which isn't structurally equipped for that). Buy a 14-50 cord, and attach to the cooktop's terminal block. Neutral gets wrapped with tape, not tied to ground!
* The box has a hole in the back tapped #10-32, it's a bit smaller than the other holes. This takes a #10-32 screw, and they even sell green ground screws just for this. This needs a #10 solid pigtail, which is tied to your oven's green wire. DON'T just clump this together with the white wire "just in case", that would create redundant neutral-ground bonds, which can cause all sorts of trouble. Also do not use the pre-made ground pigtails sold at the store, as those will be #14 or #12 and you need #10. You can buy 1 foot of bare #10 wire cheap.
I don’t have an oven. Replacing range with induction cooktop only.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
@AsyaKamsky Edited but that doesn't change any of my answer.
– Harper
5 hours ago
It sounds like it’s key to find out if box is viable ground and I wouldn’t trust apartment management to know. Is there a way I can test that?
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
Also I’m now inclined to hardwire since I wouldn’t be able to utilize the existing plug anyway.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
1
Stick with hard wiring it. I've put six of these in and none of them had a terminal board where you could remove the whip and install a cord and plug. All the wires were crimped to the whip.
– JACK
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
Yeah, that's BX/AC, so ground to the box
Looking at your closeup shot, I can tell that between the fact that the cable armor is stopped by the fitting (instead of a cable jacket, which will poke out into the box through the cable clamp as a general rule), the lack of a ground wire entering the box (which rules out type MC), and the individual paper wraps around the conductors seen protruding into the box (which is characteristic of AC/BX), this circuit, like the rest of your apartment, was wired using type AC (BX) cable, with the armor as the ground path.
You'll need to hardwire this, using a fitting and a faceplate
Since your cooktop comes with a flex whip and not a cord (or a place for a cord to go), you'll need to hardwire the flex whip to the box. You'll need a 1/2" flex/MC fitting (the straight vs. 45° vs 90° decision depends on what keeps the whip from trying to bend too tightly, although 90° would be a common choice here) and a 4 11/16" flat faceplate with a 1/2" KO in it for this. The green wire from the cooktop gets landed on a 10-32 ground screw in the back of the box, the hots from the cooktop connect to the corresponding hot wires in the box with appropriate wirenuts, and another wirenut is used to cap off the neutral wire from the wall by itself, as it's not used in this configuration. You'll need to attach the fitting and faceplate to the flex whip before you connect the flex whip to the circuit, by the way.
yep, I had a box of the right size to put on top of existing one and use a straight fitting (out the side) but that made it protrude into the cabinet too much and nearly touch the bottom drawer, so I found a cover with KO and a 90° fitting. Works beautifully!
– Asya Kamsky
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Ensure that you know which of the 3 wires are your neutral of your existing 50 amp outlet ... In your top picture, of the 3 slots you see, the one on the BOTTOM is where that white wire should be connected to NOW.. That wire will be the one that will connect to the Green one on your flexible metal connection coming out of your induction cooktop. The other two are exchangeable..
Your cooktop is 30 amps, and that 50 amp breaker in your panels needs to be reduced to a 30 amp/ 2,pole. No need to change the wire out, your good there.
At your range plug, if there's room for an extension box which would sit atop your existing wall box, you COULD wire your cooktop to that.
New contributor
I'm am unsure that you could put a "plug" on flexible metal conduit... I'd say NO unless there is a plug made for that. In either case, if there is such a plug made, it will have to be 30 amps, and SO WILL your wall outlet.. just like your breaker will be 30 amps... Just like your new induction oven...
– Retired Electrician
8 hours ago
My cooktop isn’t 30A is it? It says it requires minimum 40A breaker.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
I’m curious where the 30A came from - is it because that plug can be either 30A or 50A?
– Asya Kamsky
7 hours ago
My bad, though it said 30. Replace that 50 amp breaker with a 40 then. There's another way to connect to that existing box after you remove the plug and cover. Your box is either a 4x4 ( 4 square box ) or it's a 4-11/16 box. In either case, take out the old plug and cover, get a "blank" cover and drill a 1/2" conduit hole in it...right in the center of it. Or if you can buy a cover with a 1/2" hole in it. Also buy a 90° flexible conduit connector and attach that to your flexible conduit on your induction oven....
– Retired Electrician
6 hours ago
It’s 4 11/16th box. Is there advantage to wiring a plug - if not I’m inclined to go with hardwiring as instructions recommend.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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oldest
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oldest
votes
In NYC, you will have 208V power. It's 3-phase, but that won't be an issue.
Grounding path
Through discussion, we've determined fairly conclusively that a) this complex's wiring is grounded, and b) the grounding is via conduit or AC cable jackets, NOT individually run ground wires. OP reports that his "sub?" Panel has no ground wires at all, yet grounds check out on receptacles, so that indicates boxes are grounded and ground wires are not run (except inside AC cable).
You need to make sure that the wires from the wall are #8 or larger. (The paper padding makes it AC cable, whose internal wires are THHN, allowing the 75C column to be used for 50A).
If hardwiring
You need to connect the cooktop's green wire to the box*. The white wire in the box needs to be capped off.
However, there's a snag with hard-wiring. You can't just glorp the wires down "wherever". You need to have the wire-whip enter the box correctly, and that means through a knockout. That knockout needs to be on the face of the box, obviously, so you need a blank junction box cover that has a knockout on its face.
Easy enough, but you don't have a standard box. Your box presents the receptacle mounting screws for 2 abreast (e.g a 2-gang box) and lacks the corner screws that standard 4x4 box covers use.
So, you'll want to head to the best electrical supply in the city (goes without saying, that ain't a big-box store) and find the rare steel blank cover plate that attaches to the receptacle screws of a 2-gang. Ideally this will have a 1/2" or 3/4" trade size knockout on it, but if it doesn't, the shop may cheerfully punch it for you.
1/2" trade size actually uses a 7/8" knockout.
3/4" trade size uses a 1-1/8" knockout.
Cord-and-plug connection
If you want to cord-and-plug connect this, you need to change the receptacle. That thing is an obsolete, dangerous NEMA 10-50, and must be changed for this application because you need ground and NEMA 10 doesn't have it.
Fit a NEMA 14-50 receptacle. This has 4 wires. Fit the white wire to the neutral pin even though this cooktop doesn't use it.
On the cooktop, you'll be replacing the entire whip with a cord, not putting a plug on the end of the whip (which isn't structurally equipped for that). Buy a 14-50 cord, and attach to the cooktop's terminal block. Neutral gets wrapped with tape, not tied to ground!
* The box has a hole in the back tapped #10-32, it's a bit smaller than the other holes. This takes a #10-32 screw, and they even sell green ground screws just for this. This needs a #10 solid pigtail, which is tied to your oven's green wire. DON'T just clump this together with the white wire "just in case", that would create redundant neutral-ground bonds, which can cause all sorts of trouble. Also do not use the pre-made ground pigtails sold at the store, as those will be #14 or #12 and you need #10. You can buy 1 foot of bare #10 wire cheap.
I don’t have an oven. Replacing range with induction cooktop only.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
@AsyaKamsky Edited but that doesn't change any of my answer.
– Harper
5 hours ago
It sounds like it’s key to find out if box is viable ground and I wouldn’t trust apartment management to know. Is there a way I can test that?
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
Also I’m now inclined to hardwire since I wouldn’t be able to utilize the existing plug anyway.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
1
Stick with hard wiring it. I've put six of these in and none of them had a terminal board where you could remove the whip and install a cord and plug. All the wires were crimped to the whip.
– JACK
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
In NYC, you will have 208V power. It's 3-phase, but that won't be an issue.
Grounding path
Through discussion, we've determined fairly conclusively that a) this complex's wiring is grounded, and b) the grounding is via conduit or AC cable jackets, NOT individually run ground wires. OP reports that his "sub?" Panel has no ground wires at all, yet grounds check out on receptacles, so that indicates boxes are grounded and ground wires are not run (except inside AC cable).
You need to make sure that the wires from the wall are #8 or larger. (The paper padding makes it AC cable, whose internal wires are THHN, allowing the 75C column to be used for 50A).
If hardwiring
You need to connect the cooktop's green wire to the box*. The white wire in the box needs to be capped off.
However, there's a snag with hard-wiring. You can't just glorp the wires down "wherever". You need to have the wire-whip enter the box correctly, and that means through a knockout. That knockout needs to be on the face of the box, obviously, so you need a blank junction box cover that has a knockout on its face.
Easy enough, but you don't have a standard box. Your box presents the receptacle mounting screws for 2 abreast (e.g a 2-gang box) and lacks the corner screws that standard 4x4 box covers use.
So, you'll want to head to the best electrical supply in the city (goes without saying, that ain't a big-box store) and find the rare steel blank cover plate that attaches to the receptacle screws of a 2-gang. Ideally this will have a 1/2" or 3/4" trade size knockout on it, but if it doesn't, the shop may cheerfully punch it for you.
1/2" trade size actually uses a 7/8" knockout.
3/4" trade size uses a 1-1/8" knockout.
Cord-and-plug connection
If you want to cord-and-plug connect this, you need to change the receptacle. That thing is an obsolete, dangerous NEMA 10-50, and must be changed for this application because you need ground and NEMA 10 doesn't have it.
Fit a NEMA 14-50 receptacle. This has 4 wires. Fit the white wire to the neutral pin even though this cooktop doesn't use it.
On the cooktop, you'll be replacing the entire whip with a cord, not putting a plug on the end of the whip (which isn't structurally equipped for that). Buy a 14-50 cord, and attach to the cooktop's terminal block. Neutral gets wrapped with tape, not tied to ground!
* The box has a hole in the back tapped #10-32, it's a bit smaller than the other holes. This takes a #10-32 screw, and they even sell green ground screws just for this. This needs a #10 solid pigtail, which is tied to your oven's green wire. DON'T just clump this together with the white wire "just in case", that would create redundant neutral-ground bonds, which can cause all sorts of trouble. Also do not use the pre-made ground pigtails sold at the store, as those will be #14 or #12 and you need #10. You can buy 1 foot of bare #10 wire cheap.
I don’t have an oven. Replacing range with induction cooktop only.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
@AsyaKamsky Edited but that doesn't change any of my answer.
– Harper
5 hours ago
It sounds like it’s key to find out if box is viable ground and I wouldn’t trust apartment management to know. Is there a way I can test that?
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
Also I’m now inclined to hardwire since I wouldn’t be able to utilize the existing plug anyway.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
1
Stick with hard wiring it. I've put six of these in and none of them had a terminal board where you could remove the whip and install a cord and plug. All the wires were crimped to the whip.
– JACK
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
In NYC, you will have 208V power. It's 3-phase, but that won't be an issue.
Grounding path
Through discussion, we've determined fairly conclusively that a) this complex's wiring is grounded, and b) the grounding is via conduit or AC cable jackets, NOT individually run ground wires. OP reports that his "sub?" Panel has no ground wires at all, yet grounds check out on receptacles, so that indicates boxes are grounded and ground wires are not run (except inside AC cable).
You need to make sure that the wires from the wall are #8 or larger. (The paper padding makes it AC cable, whose internal wires are THHN, allowing the 75C column to be used for 50A).
If hardwiring
You need to connect the cooktop's green wire to the box*. The white wire in the box needs to be capped off.
However, there's a snag with hard-wiring. You can't just glorp the wires down "wherever". You need to have the wire-whip enter the box correctly, and that means through a knockout. That knockout needs to be on the face of the box, obviously, so you need a blank junction box cover that has a knockout on its face.
Easy enough, but you don't have a standard box. Your box presents the receptacle mounting screws for 2 abreast (e.g a 2-gang box) and lacks the corner screws that standard 4x4 box covers use.
So, you'll want to head to the best electrical supply in the city (goes without saying, that ain't a big-box store) and find the rare steel blank cover plate that attaches to the receptacle screws of a 2-gang. Ideally this will have a 1/2" or 3/4" trade size knockout on it, but if it doesn't, the shop may cheerfully punch it for you.
1/2" trade size actually uses a 7/8" knockout.
3/4" trade size uses a 1-1/8" knockout.
Cord-and-plug connection
If you want to cord-and-plug connect this, you need to change the receptacle. That thing is an obsolete, dangerous NEMA 10-50, and must be changed for this application because you need ground and NEMA 10 doesn't have it.
Fit a NEMA 14-50 receptacle. This has 4 wires. Fit the white wire to the neutral pin even though this cooktop doesn't use it.
On the cooktop, you'll be replacing the entire whip with a cord, not putting a plug on the end of the whip (which isn't structurally equipped for that). Buy a 14-50 cord, and attach to the cooktop's terminal block. Neutral gets wrapped with tape, not tied to ground!
* The box has a hole in the back tapped #10-32, it's a bit smaller than the other holes. This takes a #10-32 screw, and they even sell green ground screws just for this. This needs a #10 solid pigtail, which is tied to your oven's green wire. DON'T just clump this together with the white wire "just in case", that would create redundant neutral-ground bonds, which can cause all sorts of trouble. Also do not use the pre-made ground pigtails sold at the store, as those will be #14 or #12 and you need #10. You can buy 1 foot of bare #10 wire cheap.
In NYC, you will have 208V power. It's 3-phase, but that won't be an issue.
Grounding path
Through discussion, we've determined fairly conclusively that a) this complex's wiring is grounded, and b) the grounding is via conduit or AC cable jackets, NOT individually run ground wires. OP reports that his "sub?" Panel has no ground wires at all, yet grounds check out on receptacles, so that indicates boxes are grounded and ground wires are not run (except inside AC cable).
You need to make sure that the wires from the wall are #8 or larger. (The paper padding makes it AC cable, whose internal wires are THHN, allowing the 75C column to be used for 50A).
If hardwiring
You need to connect the cooktop's green wire to the box*. The white wire in the box needs to be capped off.
However, there's a snag with hard-wiring. You can't just glorp the wires down "wherever". You need to have the wire-whip enter the box correctly, and that means through a knockout. That knockout needs to be on the face of the box, obviously, so you need a blank junction box cover that has a knockout on its face.
Easy enough, but you don't have a standard box. Your box presents the receptacle mounting screws for 2 abreast (e.g a 2-gang box) and lacks the corner screws that standard 4x4 box covers use.
So, you'll want to head to the best electrical supply in the city (goes without saying, that ain't a big-box store) and find the rare steel blank cover plate that attaches to the receptacle screws of a 2-gang. Ideally this will have a 1/2" or 3/4" trade size knockout on it, but if it doesn't, the shop may cheerfully punch it for you.
1/2" trade size actually uses a 7/8" knockout.
3/4" trade size uses a 1-1/8" knockout.
Cord-and-plug connection
If you want to cord-and-plug connect this, you need to change the receptacle. That thing is an obsolete, dangerous NEMA 10-50, and must be changed for this application because you need ground and NEMA 10 doesn't have it.
Fit a NEMA 14-50 receptacle. This has 4 wires. Fit the white wire to the neutral pin even though this cooktop doesn't use it.
On the cooktop, you'll be replacing the entire whip with a cord, not putting a plug on the end of the whip (which isn't structurally equipped for that). Buy a 14-50 cord, and attach to the cooktop's terminal block. Neutral gets wrapped with tape, not tied to ground!
* The box has a hole in the back tapped #10-32, it's a bit smaller than the other holes. This takes a #10-32 screw, and they even sell green ground screws just for this. This needs a #10 solid pigtail, which is tied to your oven's green wire. DON'T just clump this together with the white wire "just in case", that would create redundant neutral-ground bonds, which can cause all sorts of trouble. Also do not use the pre-made ground pigtails sold at the store, as those will be #14 or #12 and you need #10. You can buy 1 foot of bare #10 wire cheap.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
HarperHarper
92.3k6 gold badges67 silver badges190 bronze badges
92.3k6 gold badges67 silver badges190 bronze badges
I don’t have an oven. Replacing range with induction cooktop only.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
@AsyaKamsky Edited but that doesn't change any of my answer.
– Harper
5 hours ago
It sounds like it’s key to find out if box is viable ground and I wouldn’t trust apartment management to know. Is there a way I can test that?
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
Also I’m now inclined to hardwire since I wouldn’t be able to utilize the existing plug anyway.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
1
Stick with hard wiring it. I've put six of these in and none of them had a terminal board where you could remove the whip and install a cord and plug. All the wires were crimped to the whip.
– JACK
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
I don’t have an oven. Replacing range with induction cooktop only.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
@AsyaKamsky Edited but that doesn't change any of my answer.
– Harper
5 hours ago
It sounds like it’s key to find out if box is viable ground and I wouldn’t trust apartment management to know. Is there a way I can test that?
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
Also I’m now inclined to hardwire since I wouldn’t be able to utilize the existing plug anyway.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
1
Stick with hard wiring it. I've put six of these in and none of them had a terminal board where you could remove the whip and install a cord and plug. All the wires were crimped to the whip.
– JACK
2 hours ago
I don’t have an oven. Replacing range with induction cooktop only.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
I don’t have an oven. Replacing range with induction cooktop only.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
@AsyaKamsky Edited but that doesn't change any of my answer.
– Harper
5 hours ago
@AsyaKamsky Edited but that doesn't change any of my answer.
– Harper
5 hours ago
It sounds like it’s key to find out if box is viable ground and I wouldn’t trust apartment management to know. Is there a way I can test that?
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
It sounds like it’s key to find out if box is viable ground and I wouldn’t trust apartment management to know. Is there a way I can test that?
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
Also I’m now inclined to hardwire since I wouldn’t be able to utilize the existing plug anyway.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
Also I’m now inclined to hardwire since I wouldn’t be able to utilize the existing plug anyway.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago
1
1
Stick with hard wiring it. I've put six of these in and none of them had a terminal board where you could remove the whip and install a cord and plug. All the wires were crimped to the whip.
– JACK
2 hours ago
Stick with hard wiring it. I've put six of these in and none of them had a terminal board where you could remove the whip and install a cord and plug. All the wires were crimped to the whip.
– JACK
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
Yeah, that's BX/AC, so ground to the box
Looking at your closeup shot, I can tell that between the fact that the cable armor is stopped by the fitting (instead of a cable jacket, which will poke out into the box through the cable clamp as a general rule), the lack of a ground wire entering the box (which rules out type MC), and the individual paper wraps around the conductors seen protruding into the box (which is characteristic of AC/BX), this circuit, like the rest of your apartment, was wired using type AC (BX) cable, with the armor as the ground path.
You'll need to hardwire this, using a fitting and a faceplate
Since your cooktop comes with a flex whip and not a cord (or a place for a cord to go), you'll need to hardwire the flex whip to the box. You'll need a 1/2" flex/MC fitting (the straight vs. 45° vs 90° decision depends on what keeps the whip from trying to bend too tightly, although 90° would be a common choice here) and a 4 11/16" flat faceplate with a 1/2" KO in it for this. The green wire from the cooktop gets landed on a 10-32 ground screw in the back of the box, the hots from the cooktop connect to the corresponding hot wires in the box with appropriate wirenuts, and another wirenut is used to cap off the neutral wire from the wall by itself, as it's not used in this configuration. You'll need to attach the fitting and faceplate to the flex whip before you connect the flex whip to the circuit, by the way.
yep, I had a box of the right size to put on top of existing one and use a straight fitting (out the side) but that made it protrude into the cabinet too much and nearly touch the bottom drawer, so I found a cover with KO and a 90° fitting. Works beautifully!
– Asya Kamsky
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Yeah, that's BX/AC, so ground to the box
Looking at your closeup shot, I can tell that between the fact that the cable armor is stopped by the fitting (instead of a cable jacket, which will poke out into the box through the cable clamp as a general rule), the lack of a ground wire entering the box (which rules out type MC), and the individual paper wraps around the conductors seen protruding into the box (which is characteristic of AC/BX), this circuit, like the rest of your apartment, was wired using type AC (BX) cable, with the armor as the ground path.
You'll need to hardwire this, using a fitting and a faceplate
Since your cooktop comes with a flex whip and not a cord (or a place for a cord to go), you'll need to hardwire the flex whip to the box. You'll need a 1/2" flex/MC fitting (the straight vs. 45° vs 90° decision depends on what keeps the whip from trying to bend too tightly, although 90° would be a common choice here) and a 4 11/16" flat faceplate with a 1/2" KO in it for this. The green wire from the cooktop gets landed on a 10-32 ground screw in the back of the box, the hots from the cooktop connect to the corresponding hot wires in the box with appropriate wirenuts, and another wirenut is used to cap off the neutral wire from the wall by itself, as it's not used in this configuration. You'll need to attach the fitting and faceplate to the flex whip before you connect the flex whip to the circuit, by the way.
yep, I had a box of the right size to put on top of existing one and use a straight fitting (out the side) but that made it protrude into the cabinet too much and nearly touch the bottom drawer, so I found a cover with KO and a 90° fitting. Works beautifully!
– Asya Kamsky
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Yeah, that's BX/AC, so ground to the box
Looking at your closeup shot, I can tell that between the fact that the cable armor is stopped by the fitting (instead of a cable jacket, which will poke out into the box through the cable clamp as a general rule), the lack of a ground wire entering the box (which rules out type MC), and the individual paper wraps around the conductors seen protruding into the box (which is characteristic of AC/BX), this circuit, like the rest of your apartment, was wired using type AC (BX) cable, with the armor as the ground path.
You'll need to hardwire this, using a fitting and a faceplate
Since your cooktop comes with a flex whip and not a cord (or a place for a cord to go), you'll need to hardwire the flex whip to the box. You'll need a 1/2" flex/MC fitting (the straight vs. 45° vs 90° decision depends on what keeps the whip from trying to bend too tightly, although 90° would be a common choice here) and a 4 11/16" flat faceplate with a 1/2" KO in it for this. The green wire from the cooktop gets landed on a 10-32 ground screw in the back of the box, the hots from the cooktop connect to the corresponding hot wires in the box with appropriate wirenuts, and another wirenut is used to cap off the neutral wire from the wall by itself, as it's not used in this configuration. You'll need to attach the fitting and faceplate to the flex whip before you connect the flex whip to the circuit, by the way.
Yeah, that's BX/AC, so ground to the box
Looking at your closeup shot, I can tell that between the fact that the cable armor is stopped by the fitting (instead of a cable jacket, which will poke out into the box through the cable clamp as a general rule), the lack of a ground wire entering the box (which rules out type MC), and the individual paper wraps around the conductors seen protruding into the box (which is characteristic of AC/BX), this circuit, like the rest of your apartment, was wired using type AC (BX) cable, with the armor as the ground path.
You'll need to hardwire this, using a fitting and a faceplate
Since your cooktop comes with a flex whip and not a cord (or a place for a cord to go), you'll need to hardwire the flex whip to the box. You'll need a 1/2" flex/MC fitting (the straight vs. 45° vs 90° decision depends on what keeps the whip from trying to bend too tightly, although 90° would be a common choice here) and a 4 11/16" flat faceplate with a 1/2" KO in it for this. The green wire from the cooktop gets landed on a 10-32 ground screw in the back of the box, the hots from the cooktop connect to the corresponding hot wires in the box with appropriate wirenuts, and another wirenut is used to cap off the neutral wire from the wall by itself, as it's not used in this configuration. You'll need to attach the fitting and faceplate to the flex whip before you connect the flex whip to the circuit, by the way.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
ThreePhaseEelThreePhaseEel
36.1k11 gold badges55 silver badges111 bronze badges
36.1k11 gold badges55 silver badges111 bronze badges
yep, I had a box of the right size to put on top of existing one and use a straight fitting (out the side) but that made it protrude into the cabinet too much and nearly touch the bottom drawer, so I found a cover with KO and a 90° fitting. Works beautifully!
– Asya Kamsky
1 hour ago
add a comment |
yep, I had a box of the right size to put on top of existing one and use a straight fitting (out the side) but that made it protrude into the cabinet too much and nearly touch the bottom drawer, so I found a cover with KO and a 90° fitting. Works beautifully!
– Asya Kamsky
1 hour ago
yep, I had a box of the right size to put on top of existing one and use a straight fitting (out the side) but that made it protrude into the cabinet too much and nearly touch the bottom drawer, so I found a cover with KO and a 90° fitting. Works beautifully!
– Asya Kamsky
1 hour ago
yep, I had a box of the right size to put on top of existing one and use a straight fitting (out the side) but that made it protrude into the cabinet too much and nearly touch the bottom drawer, so I found a cover with KO and a 90° fitting. Works beautifully!
– Asya Kamsky
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Ensure that you know which of the 3 wires are your neutral of your existing 50 amp outlet ... In your top picture, of the 3 slots you see, the one on the BOTTOM is where that white wire should be connected to NOW.. That wire will be the one that will connect to the Green one on your flexible metal connection coming out of your induction cooktop. The other two are exchangeable..
Your cooktop is 30 amps, and that 50 amp breaker in your panels needs to be reduced to a 30 amp/ 2,pole. No need to change the wire out, your good there.
At your range plug, if there's room for an extension box which would sit atop your existing wall box, you COULD wire your cooktop to that.
New contributor
I'm am unsure that you could put a "plug" on flexible metal conduit... I'd say NO unless there is a plug made for that. In either case, if there is such a plug made, it will have to be 30 amps, and SO WILL your wall outlet.. just like your breaker will be 30 amps... Just like your new induction oven...
– Retired Electrician
8 hours ago
My cooktop isn’t 30A is it? It says it requires minimum 40A breaker.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
I’m curious where the 30A came from - is it because that plug can be either 30A or 50A?
– Asya Kamsky
7 hours ago
My bad, though it said 30. Replace that 50 amp breaker with a 40 then. There's another way to connect to that existing box after you remove the plug and cover. Your box is either a 4x4 ( 4 square box ) or it's a 4-11/16 box. In either case, take out the old plug and cover, get a "blank" cover and drill a 1/2" conduit hole in it...right in the center of it. Or if you can buy a cover with a 1/2" hole in it. Also buy a 90° flexible conduit connector and attach that to your flexible conduit on your induction oven....
– Retired Electrician
6 hours ago
It’s 4 11/16th box. Is there advantage to wiring a plug - if not I’m inclined to go with hardwiring as instructions recommend.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Ensure that you know which of the 3 wires are your neutral of your existing 50 amp outlet ... In your top picture, of the 3 slots you see, the one on the BOTTOM is where that white wire should be connected to NOW.. That wire will be the one that will connect to the Green one on your flexible metal connection coming out of your induction cooktop. The other two are exchangeable..
Your cooktop is 30 amps, and that 50 amp breaker in your panels needs to be reduced to a 30 amp/ 2,pole. No need to change the wire out, your good there.
At your range plug, if there's room for an extension box which would sit atop your existing wall box, you COULD wire your cooktop to that.
New contributor
I'm am unsure that you could put a "plug" on flexible metal conduit... I'd say NO unless there is a plug made for that. In either case, if there is such a plug made, it will have to be 30 amps, and SO WILL your wall outlet.. just like your breaker will be 30 amps... Just like your new induction oven...
– Retired Electrician
8 hours ago
My cooktop isn’t 30A is it? It says it requires minimum 40A breaker.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
I’m curious where the 30A came from - is it because that plug can be either 30A or 50A?
– Asya Kamsky
7 hours ago
My bad, though it said 30. Replace that 50 amp breaker with a 40 then. There's another way to connect to that existing box after you remove the plug and cover. Your box is either a 4x4 ( 4 square box ) or it's a 4-11/16 box. In either case, take out the old plug and cover, get a "blank" cover and drill a 1/2" conduit hole in it...right in the center of it. Or if you can buy a cover with a 1/2" hole in it. Also buy a 90° flexible conduit connector and attach that to your flexible conduit on your induction oven....
– Retired Electrician
6 hours ago
It’s 4 11/16th box. Is there advantage to wiring a plug - if not I’m inclined to go with hardwiring as instructions recommend.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Ensure that you know which of the 3 wires are your neutral of your existing 50 amp outlet ... In your top picture, of the 3 slots you see, the one on the BOTTOM is where that white wire should be connected to NOW.. That wire will be the one that will connect to the Green one on your flexible metal connection coming out of your induction cooktop. The other two are exchangeable..
Your cooktop is 30 amps, and that 50 amp breaker in your panels needs to be reduced to a 30 amp/ 2,pole. No need to change the wire out, your good there.
At your range plug, if there's room for an extension box which would sit atop your existing wall box, you COULD wire your cooktop to that.
New contributor
Ensure that you know which of the 3 wires are your neutral of your existing 50 amp outlet ... In your top picture, of the 3 slots you see, the one on the BOTTOM is where that white wire should be connected to NOW.. That wire will be the one that will connect to the Green one on your flexible metal connection coming out of your induction cooktop. The other two are exchangeable..
Your cooktop is 30 amps, and that 50 amp breaker in your panels needs to be reduced to a 30 amp/ 2,pole. No need to change the wire out, your good there.
At your range plug, if there's room for an extension box which would sit atop your existing wall box, you COULD wire your cooktop to that.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 8 hours ago
Retired ElectricianRetired Electrician
965 bronze badges
965 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
I'm am unsure that you could put a "plug" on flexible metal conduit... I'd say NO unless there is a plug made for that. In either case, if there is such a plug made, it will have to be 30 amps, and SO WILL your wall outlet.. just like your breaker will be 30 amps... Just like your new induction oven...
– Retired Electrician
8 hours ago
My cooktop isn’t 30A is it? It says it requires minimum 40A breaker.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
I’m curious where the 30A came from - is it because that plug can be either 30A or 50A?
– Asya Kamsky
7 hours ago
My bad, though it said 30. Replace that 50 amp breaker with a 40 then. There's another way to connect to that existing box after you remove the plug and cover. Your box is either a 4x4 ( 4 square box ) or it's a 4-11/16 box. In either case, take out the old plug and cover, get a "blank" cover and drill a 1/2" conduit hole in it...right in the center of it. Or if you can buy a cover with a 1/2" hole in it. Also buy a 90° flexible conduit connector and attach that to your flexible conduit on your induction oven....
– Retired Electrician
6 hours ago
It’s 4 11/16th box. Is there advantage to wiring a plug - if not I’m inclined to go with hardwiring as instructions recommend.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
I'm am unsure that you could put a "plug" on flexible metal conduit... I'd say NO unless there is a plug made for that. In either case, if there is such a plug made, it will have to be 30 amps, and SO WILL your wall outlet.. just like your breaker will be 30 amps... Just like your new induction oven...
– Retired Electrician
8 hours ago
My cooktop isn’t 30A is it? It says it requires minimum 40A breaker.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
I’m curious where the 30A came from - is it because that plug can be either 30A or 50A?
– Asya Kamsky
7 hours ago
My bad, though it said 30. Replace that 50 amp breaker with a 40 then. There's another way to connect to that existing box after you remove the plug and cover. Your box is either a 4x4 ( 4 square box ) or it's a 4-11/16 box. In either case, take out the old plug and cover, get a "blank" cover and drill a 1/2" conduit hole in it...right in the center of it. Or if you can buy a cover with a 1/2" hole in it. Also buy a 90° flexible conduit connector and attach that to your flexible conduit on your induction oven....
– Retired Electrician
6 hours ago
It’s 4 11/16th box. Is there advantage to wiring a plug - if not I’m inclined to go with hardwiring as instructions recommend.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
I'm am unsure that you could put a "plug" on flexible metal conduit... I'd say NO unless there is a plug made for that. In either case, if there is such a plug made, it will have to be 30 amps, and SO WILL your wall outlet.. just like your breaker will be 30 amps... Just like your new induction oven...
– Retired Electrician
8 hours ago
I'm am unsure that you could put a "plug" on flexible metal conduit... I'd say NO unless there is a plug made for that. In either case, if there is such a plug made, it will have to be 30 amps, and SO WILL your wall outlet.. just like your breaker will be 30 amps... Just like your new induction oven...
– Retired Electrician
8 hours ago
My cooktop isn’t 30A is it? It says it requires minimum 40A breaker.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
My cooktop isn’t 30A is it? It says it requires minimum 40A breaker.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
I’m curious where the 30A came from - is it because that plug can be either 30A or 50A?
– Asya Kamsky
7 hours ago
I’m curious where the 30A came from - is it because that plug can be either 30A or 50A?
– Asya Kamsky
7 hours ago
My bad, though it said 30. Replace that 50 amp breaker with a 40 then. There's another way to connect to that existing box after you remove the plug and cover. Your box is either a 4x4 ( 4 square box ) or it's a 4-11/16 box. In either case, take out the old plug and cover, get a "blank" cover and drill a 1/2" conduit hole in it...right in the center of it. Or if you can buy a cover with a 1/2" hole in it. Also buy a 90° flexible conduit connector and attach that to your flexible conduit on your induction oven....
– Retired Electrician
6 hours ago
My bad, though it said 30. Replace that 50 amp breaker with a 40 then. There's another way to connect to that existing box after you remove the plug and cover. Your box is either a 4x4 ( 4 square box ) or it's a 4-11/16 box. In either case, take out the old plug and cover, get a "blank" cover and drill a 1/2" conduit hole in it...right in the center of it. Or if you can buy a cover with a 1/2" hole in it. Also buy a 90° flexible conduit connector and attach that to your flexible conduit on your induction oven....
– Retired Electrician
6 hours ago
It’s 4 11/16th box. Is there advantage to wiring a plug - if not I’m inclined to go with hardwiring as instructions recommend.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
It’s 4 11/16th box. Is there advantage to wiring a plug - if not I’m inclined to go with hardwiring as instructions recommend.
– Asya Kamsky
6 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
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btw new cooktop says that if wiring to 4-wire then to leave white wire from power supply capped off as it's unused.
– Asya Kamsky
8 hours ago
Is that 50A breaker in your main panel (where the main breaker is), or in a subpanel? Also, can you post a closeup of where the wires to the range outlet enter the outlet box?
– ThreePhaseEel
8 hours ago
1
Also, 3" sounds like an illogically large diameter for the flex whip -- I'm thinking it's either 1/2" or 3/4"
– ThreePhaseEel
5 hours ago
2
These facts: a) you're in NYC b) in a large commercial complex c) surely well inspected d) metal boxes with what looks like AC (not MC) cable, and e) no ground wires in the entire place, yet grounds test good -- combine to be a very strong signal that grounding is present at boxes via AC cables or conduits. My facilities are the same way, no ground wires in 4 buildings.
– Harper
5 hours ago
1
Sorry was measuring circumference! Looks like 3/4.
– Asya Kamsky
5 hours ago