Why are angular mometum and angular velocity not necessarily parallel, but linear momentum and linear velocity are always parallel?Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?Converting angular velocity to linear velocity through frictionExample where angular momentum and angular velocity are not parallelHow do I find angular and linear velocity after normal force and “infinite” friction force?Need help with relationship between angular momentum, linear and angular velocityTwo particles have the same linear momentum but their angular momentum differ. Which's harder to stop?Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?How different can the directions of angular momentum and angular velocity be?How can angular momentum not be parallel with angular velocity?Angular Momentum and assymetric axisAngular momentum and angular velocity
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Why are angular mometum and angular velocity not necessarily parallel, but linear momentum and linear velocity are always parallel?
Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?Converting angular velocity to linear velocity through frictionExample where angular momentum and angular velocity are not parallelHow do I find angular and linear velocity after normal force and “infinite” friction force?Need help with relationship between angular momentum, linear and angular velocityTwo particles have the same linear momentum but their angular momentum differ. Which's harder to stop?Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?How different can the directions of angular momentum and angular velocity be?How can angular momentum not be parallel with angular velocity?Angular Momentum and assymetric axisAngular momentum and angular velocity
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I have read that it's not necessary for angular momentum and angular velocity to be parallel, but it is necessary for linear momentum and linear velocity to be parallel. How is this correct?
newtonian-mechanics angular-momentum rotational-dynamics vectors angular-velocity
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Aaliya Ahamed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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add a comment |
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I have read that it's not necessary for angular momentum and angular velocity to be parallel, but it is necessary for linear momentum and linear velocity to be parallel. How is this correct?
newtonian-mechanics angular-momentum rotational-dynamics vectors angular-velocity
New contributor
Aaliya Ahamed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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4
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?
$endgroup$
– yuvraj singh
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@yuvrajsingh I disagree. That is more of a related question. This question is asking for more of a comparison between "linear" and "angular", and why a difference arises.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
FWIW, canonical/conjugate momentum does not have to be parallel to velocity, e.g. in an E&M background.
$endgroup$
– Qmechanic♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Note that the angular momentum pseudovector is a different geometric object from the linear momentum vector. This distinction becomes apparent in Special Relativity where there is a linear momentum four-vector but an antisymmetric angular momentum tensor.
$endgroup$
– Hal Hollis
48 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have read that it's not necessary for angular momentum and angular velocity to be parallel, but it is necessary for linear momentum and linear velocity to be parallel. How is this correct?
newtonian-mechanics angular-momentum rotational-dynamics vectors angular-velocity
New contributor
Aaliya Ahamed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
I have read that it's not necessary for angular momentum and angular velocity to be parallel, but it is necessary for linear momentum and linear velocity to be parallel. How is this correct?
newtonian-mechanics angular-momentum rotational-dynamics vectors angular-velocity
newtonian-mechanics angular-momentum rotational-dynamics vectors angular-velocity
New contributor
Aaliya Ahamed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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edited 5 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
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asked 8 hours ago
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4
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?
$endgroup$
– yuvraj singh
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@yuvrajsingh I disagree. That is more of a related question. This question is asking for more of a comparison between "linear" and "angular", and why a difference arises.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
FWIW, canonical/conjugate momentum does not have to be parallel to velocity, e.g. in an E&M background.
$endgroup$
– Qmechanic♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Note that the angular momentum pseudovector is a different geometric object from the linear momentum vector. This distinction becomes apparent in Special Relativity where there is a linear momentum four-vector but an antisymmetric angular momentum tensor.
$endgroup$
– Hal Hollis
48 mins ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?
$endgroup$
– yuvraj singh
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@yuvrajsingh I disagree. That is more of a related question. This question is asking for more of a comparison between "linear" and "angular", and why a difference arises.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
FWIW, canonical/conjugate momentum does not have to be parallel to velocity, e.g. in an E&M background.
$endgroup$
– Qmechanic♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Note that the angular momentum pseudovector is a different geometric object from the linear momentum vector. This distinction becomes apparent in Special Relativity where there is a linear momentum four-vector but an antisymmetric angular momentum tensor.
$endgroup$
– Hal Hollis
48 mins ago
4
4
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?
$endgroup$
– yuvraj singh
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?
$endgroup$
– yuvraj singh
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@yuvrajsingh I disagree. That is more of a related question. This question is asking for more of a comparison between "linear" and "angular", and why a difference arises.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@yuvrajsingh I disagree. That is more of a related question. This question is asking for more of a comparison between "linear" and "angular", and why a difference arises.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
FWIW, canonical/conjugate momentum does not have to be parallel to velocity, e.g. in an E&M background.
$endgroup$
– Qmechanic♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
FWIW, canonical/conjugate momentum does not have to be parallel to velocity, e.g. in an E&M background.
$endgroup$
– Qmechanic♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Note that the angular momentum pseudovector is a different geometric object from the linear momentum vector. This distinction becomes apparent in Special Relativity where there is a linear momentum four-vector but an antisymmetric angular momentum tensor.
$endgroup$
– Hal Hollis
48 mins ago
$begingroup$
Note that the angular momentum pseudovector is a different geometric object from the linear momentum vector. This distinction becomes apparent in Special Relativity where there is a linear momentum four-vector but an antisymmetric angular momentum tensor.
$endgroup$
– Hal Hollis
48 mins ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
This is because the definition of linear momentum $mathbf p$ is expressed in terms of the linear velocity $mathbf v$ using
$$mathbf p=mmathbf v$$
Since $m$ is just a scalar quantity, the vectors $mathbf p$ and $mathbf v$ are obviously parallel. i.e.
$$p_x=mv_x$$
$$p_y=mv_y$$
$$p_z=mv_z$$
However, the angular momentum $mathbf L$ is related to the angular velocity $boldsymbol omega$ by
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $mathbf I$ is the moment of inertia tensor. This is explicitly written out as
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
I_xx&I_xy&I_xz\
I_yx&I_yy&I_yz\
I_zx&I_zy&I_zz
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
omega_x\omega_y\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Or each component written out:
$$L_x=I_xxomega_x+I_xyomega_y+I_xzomega_z$$
$$L_y=I_yxomega_x+I_yyomega_y+I_yzomega_z$$
$$L_z=I_zxomega_x+I_zyomega_y+I_zzomega_z$$
This shows that, in general, $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ are not parallel. We have something more complicated than the linear case because each component of the angular momentum vector depends on all of the angular velocity components.
However, this complexity does not prevent our two vectors from being parallel. We can determine when they are parallel by looking at the equation
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega=Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $I$ is a scalar quantity. What this means is that $boldsymbolomega$ needs to be an eigenvalue of $mathbf I$ in order for $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ to be parallel. Note that this is usually what you encounter in your introductory physics classes. You, without knowing it, pick axes in such a way that the moment of inertia tensor is diagonal and your angular velocity is only along a single eigenvector (usually taken to be along the z-axis). For example, for a cylinder of radius $R$, height $H$, and mass $M$ rotating about its central axis aligned with the z-axis, we have
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0&0\
0&frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0\
0&0½MR^2
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
0\0\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Therefore we end up with the simple
$$mathbf L=L_zhat z=I_zzomega_zhat z=frac12MR^2omega_zhat z$$
or you might even see in an introductory physics class just
$$L=frac12MR^2omega$$
As a small note, the reason things become so much more complicated with the rotations is that the angular momentum not only depends on the mass of the object, but also how that mass is distributed. This is evident from the definition of angular momentum for a point particle $mathbf L=mathbf rtimesmathbf p$
However, if we look at an extended body's momentum we just get
$$mathbf p_T=m_Tmathbf v_textcom$$
where the $T$ subscript stands for "total" and "com$ is center of mass. Therefore, we still end up with a scalar mass instead of a tensor.
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$begingroup$
That's nice, but I think the OP want to know WHY mass can't become a tensor as well.
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– FGSUZ
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ You must have better insight than myself. I don't see anything in the question asking about tensors or why mass can't become a tensor. I really don't even understand what that question means.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll try to explain. Most answers are explaining that $m$ is a scalar, and therefore $vecp$ is parallel to $vecv$, as $vecp=mvecv$. On the other hand, since $I$ is a tensor, then $vecL=Ivecomega$ is different. This can be an answer, but it would be great if someone went deeper. Why can't mass be a tensor too, so that $p$ needent be parallel to $v$ anymore?
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ I think I see what you are getting at. If you think about it, the tensor only arises when we move to an extended body. I might add something to my end note.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ The answer by WetSavannahAnimal goes pretty deep.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Mass is a scalar but mass moment of inertia is a tensor. As a result, a scalar can only change the magnitude of a vector, but a tensor can change both the magnitude and the direction.
From linear algebra:
$boldsymbolp = m boldsymbolv$ is always parallel to $boldsymbolv$ for $m neq 0$
$boldsymbolL = rmI, boldsymbolomega$ is only parallel when $boldsymbolomega$ is an eigenvector of $mathrmI$. A special case exists for symmetric objects like spheres and cubes where $mathrmI$ is a scalar multiple of the identity matrix.
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1
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - I agree. I edited the answer.
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– ja72
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's cool. Although I must also say that scalar multiples of the identity matrix does not only happen for spheres. It's just that it's always true for spheres.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - Dang it!. Right again, a cube for example. Thank you for the corrections.
$endgroup$
– ja72
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or a cylinder whose height is $sqrt 3$ times its radius (see example in my answer). You could probably contrive it for any shape when you choose axes to make the tensor diagonal.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Linear momentum is defined as
$$vecp=mvecv$$
where $m$ is a scalar (i.e. just a number). Multiplying a vector by a scalar does not change its direcction.
In contrast, angular momentum is defined as
$$vecL=oversetleftrightarrowIvecomega$$
where $oversetleftrightarrowI$ is a tensor (i.e. something like, but not quite exactly, a matrix). Multiplying a vector by a tensor can, and often does, change the direction of the vector.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The other answers that say the difference arises because there is an inertia tensor in the rotation case are all perfectly correct, but i think we can go deeper and more intuitive that this and say:
Translations commute. Rotations don’t. That’s the fundamental reason for the difference. And it’s that way that these two different behaviors bear upon Noether’s theorem gives root to the difference between linear momentum, with its simple, scalar multiple relationship with velocity and angular momentum, with its more general linear transformation from the angular velocity vector.
Actually, the statement "Translations commute. Rotations don’t“ is a little glib and imprecise. But it's very close to being accurate. To be more precise, one would say rotations form a more complicated, noncommutative Lie group, whereas translations form „the" three dimensional commutative Lie group (commutative Lie groups of a given dimension are essentially all the same - there can be a topological difference in that the mutually commuting one parameter groups can be compact or not, but from the Lie algebra standpoint they are all exactly the same, and Noether’s theorem is only influenced by the Lie algebra, not by the group topology).
Recall that the reason for being for angular and linear momentum - what makes them useful concepts - is that they are conserved quantities of a physical system (in the absence of external forces). And, although Noether’s theorem is not the only mechanism that gives rise to conserved quantities in physics, it is in this case. So, if we want fundamental, intuitive insight into this question, we must look at how Noether’s theorem plays out in the two cases.
Let’s grab the expression from Wikipedia for the conserved Noether current:
$$left(fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot dotmathbfq - L right) T_r - fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag1$$
This is a very physicist equation and needs explanation if you’re not familiar with its notation and jargon. Noether’s theorem states that if the Lagrangian of a system is time-translation-invariant and is invariant with respect to a continuous, one-parameter group of transformations on the system’s generalized co-ordinates, then there is a conserved quantity for each such one parameter group, called to Noether charge. For example: rotations of the co-ordinate system about an axis - the rotation’s magnitude can be smoothly varied with the rotation angle - or translations along a given direction of the co-ordinate origin, which are parameterized by a 1continuous signed distance value. In (1), $mathbfQ_r$ is the „generator" of the continuous transformation in question (explained below). The first part of (1) - the bit to the left of $T_r$, has to do with the continuous transformation of translating the time co-ordinate, and is not important for the present considerations. It gives rise to the energy as a c1onserved quantity. So we look at the part that is nonzero for the transformations (on the non-time co-ordinates) that we’re interested in:
$$fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag2$$
As someone versed in a more Lie theoretical understanding of these matters, i would write the above equation more to my taste as follows:
$$mathbfQ_r fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq = mathbfQ_r , mathbfptag3$$
where $fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq$ is a vector whose components are the generalized momenta $p_i = fracpartial Lpartial dotq_i$ corresponding to the generalized co-ordinates $p_i$ of the Lagrangian description. In the above, $mathbfQ_r$ is the matrix of the Lie algebra member when the Lie group in question acts on the generalized co-ordinates.
So, let’s see how (3) pans out. If our Lagrangian is independent of the generalized co-ordinates themselves, then the matrix of the translation in the $i^th$ direction is simply diagonal with noughts along its leading diagonal except at the $i^th$ position. So (3) just says that the $i^th$ component of the generalized momentum $mathbfp$ is conserved. Or, repeating the argument for each $i$, the $mathbfp$ itself is conserved. So the situation is very simple for translations in the co-ordinates themselves.
However, if the concept of rotation of generalized co-ordinates is meaningful, and, if further, the Lagrangian is invariant with respect to rotations in the generalized co-ordinates, then the matrix $mathbfQ_r$ in (3) is the Lie algebra member of $SO(N)$ corresponding to rotation about the axis in question, times the distance $r$ from the co-ordinate origin (this is the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus operator $mathbfomegatimesmathbfr$ in 3 dimensions). So already, without assuming anything about the expressions for angular or linear momentum aside from that our Lagrangian is invariant to translations and rotations, we can see that the expressions for the conserved linear momentums are simply the generalized momentums themselves, whereas the conserved angular momentums, by dent of the more complicated Lie algebra for $SO(N)$ are matrix operations on the generalized momentums.
If we further assume that the generalized momentum is $m_i,r, mathbfQ_r dottheta_r$ (the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus expression $mathbfomegatimes mathbfr$ in 3 dimensions), then our Noether charge is:
$$m ,r^2 ,mathbfQ_r^2 dottheta_rtag5$$
and this quantity is conserved for each co-ordinate $r$. This is readily shown to mean the same thing as the conservation of $mathbfL = mathbfI,mathbfomega$ when summed over all particles in a rigid body.
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4 Answers
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oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
This is because the definition of linear momentum $mathbf p$ is expressed in terms of the linear velocity $mathbf v$ using
$$mathbf p=mmathbf v$$
Since $m$ is just a scalar quantity, the vectors $mathbf p$ and $mathbf v$ are obviously parallel. i.e.
$$p_x=mv_x$$
$$p_y=mv_y$$
$$p_z=mv_z$$
However, the angular momentum $mathbf L$ is related to the angular velocity $boldsymbol omega$ by
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $mathbf I$ is the moment of inertia tensor. This is explicitly written out as
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
I_xx&I_xy&I_xz\
I_yx&I_yy&I_yz\
I_zx&I_zy&I_zz
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
omega_x\omega_y\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Or each component written out:
$$L_x=I_xxomega_x+I_xyomega_y+I_xzomega_z$$
$$L_y=I_yxomega_x+I_yyomega_y+I_yzomega_z$$
$$L_z=I_zxomega_x+I_zyomega_y+I_zzomega_z$$
This shows that, in general, $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ are not parallel. We have something more complicated than the linear case because each component of the angular momentum vector depends on all of the angular velocity components.
However, this complexity does not prevent our two vectors from being parallel. We can determine when they are parallel by looking at the equation
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega=Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $I$ is a scalar quantity. What this means is that $boldsymbolomega$ needs to be an eigenvalue of $mathbf I$ in order for $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ to be parallel. Note that this is usually what you encounter in your introductory physics classes. You, without knowing it, pick axes in such a way that the moment of inertia tensor is diagonal and your angular velocity is only along a single eigenvector (usually taken to be along the z-axis). For example, for a cylinder of radius $R$, height $H$, and mass $M$ rotating about its central axis aligned with the z-axis, we have
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0&0\
0&frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0\
0&0½MR^2
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
0\0\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Therefore we end up with the simple
$$mathbf L=L_zhat z=I_zzomega_zhat z=frac12MR^2omega_zhat z$$
or you might even see in an introductory physics class just
$$L=frac12MR^2omega$$
As a small note, the reason things become so much more complicated with the rotations is that the angular momentum not only depends on the mass of the object, but also how that mass is distributed. This is evident from the definition of angular momentum for a point particle $mathbf L=mathbf rtimesmathbf p$
However, if we look at an extended body's momentum we just get
$$mathbf p_T=m_Tmathbf v_textcom$$
where the $T$ subscript stands for "total" and "com$ is center of mass. Therefore, we still end up with a scalar mass instead of a tensor.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's nice, but I think the OP want to know WHY mass can't become a tensor as well.
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ You must have better insight than myself. I don't see anything in the question asking about tensors or why mass can't become a tensor. I really don't even understand what that question means.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll try to explain. Most answers are explaining that $m$ is a scalar, and therefore $vecp$ is parallel to $vecv$, as $vecp=mvecv$. On the other hand, since $I$ is a tensor, then $vecL=Ivecomega$ is different. This can be an answer, but it would be great if someone went deeper. Why can't mass be a tensor too, so that $p$ needent be parallel to $v$ anymore?
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ I think I see what you are getting at. If you think about it, the tensor only arises when we move to an extended body. I might add something to my end note.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ The answer by WetSavannahAnimal goes pretty deep.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is because the definition of linear momentum $mathbf p$ is expressed in terms of the linear velocity $mathbf v$ using
$$mathbf p=mmathbf v$$
Since $m$ is just a scalar quantity, the vectors $mathbf p$ and $mathbf v$ are obviously parallel. i.e.
$$p_x=mv_x$$
$$p_y=mv_y$$
$$p_z=mv_z$$
However, the angular momentum $mathbf L$ is related to the angular velocity $boldsymbol omega$ by
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $mathbf I$ is the moment of inertia tensor. This is explicitly written out as
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
I_xx&I_xy&I_xz\
I_yx&I_yy&I_yz\
I_zx&I_zy&I_zz
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
omega_x\omega_y\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Or each component written out:
$$L_x=I_xxomega_x+I_xyomega_y+I_xzomega_z$$
$$L_y=I_yxomega_x+I_yyomega_y+I_yzomega_z$$
$$L_z=I_zxomega_x+I_zyomega_y+I_zzomega_z$$
This shows that, in general, $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ are not parallel. We have something more complicated than the linear case because each component of the angular momentum vector depends on all of the angular velocity components.
However, this complexity does not prevent our two vectors from being parallel. We can determine when they are parallel by looking at the equation
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega=Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $I$ is a scalar quantity. What this means is that $boldsymbolomega$ needs to be an eigenvalue of $mathbf I$ in order for $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ to be parallel. Note that this is usually what you encounter in your introductory physics classes. You, without knowing it, pick axes in such a way that the moment of inertia tensor is diagonal and your angular velocity is only along a single eigenvector (usually taken to be along the z-axis). For example, for a cylinder of radius $R$, height $H$, and mass $M$ rotating about its central axis aligned with the z-axis, we have
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0&0\
0&frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0\
0&0½MR^2
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
0\0\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Therefore we end up with the simple
$$mathbf L=L_zhat z=I_zzomega_zhat z=frac12MR^2omega_zhat z$$
or you might even see in an introductory physics class just
$$L=frac12MR^2omega$$
As a small note, the reason things become so much more complicated with the rotations is that the angular momentum not only depends on the mass of the object, but also how that mass is distributed. This is evident from the definition of angular momentum for a point particle $mathbf L=mathbf rtimesmathbf p$
However, if we look at an extended body's momentum we just get
$$mathbf p_T=m_Tmathbf v_textcom$$
where the $T$ subscript stands for "total" and "com$ is center of mass. Therefore, we still end up with a scalar mass instead of a tensor.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's nice, but I think the OP want to know WHY mass can't become a tensor as well.
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ You must have better insight than myself. I don't see anything in the question asking about tensors or why mass can't become a tensor. I really don't even understand what that question means.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll try to explain. Most answers are explaining that $m$ is a scalar, and therefore $vecp$ is parallel to $vecv$, as $vecp=mvecv$. On the other hand, since $I$ is a tensor, then $vecL=Ivecomega$ is different. This can be an answer, but it would be great if someone went deeper. Why can't mass be a tensor too, so that $p$ needent be parallel to $v$ anymore?
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ I think I see what you are getting at. If you think about it, the tensor only arises when we move to an extended body. I might add something to my end note.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ The answer by WetSavannahAnimal goes pretty deep.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is because the definition of linear momentum $mathbf p$ is expressed in terms of the linear velocity $mathbf v$ using
$$mathbf p=mmathbf v$$
Since $m$ is just a scalar quantity, the vectors $mathbf p$ and $mathbf v$ are obviously parallel. i.e.
$$p_x=mv_x$$
$$p_y=mv_y$$
$$p_z=mv_z$$
However, the angular momentum $mathbf L$ is related to the angular velocity $boldsymbol omega$ by
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $mathbf I$ is the moment of inertia tensor. This is explicitly written out as
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
I_xx&I_xy&I_xz\
I_yx&I_yy&I_yz\
I_zx&I_zy&I_zz
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
omega_x\omega_y\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Or each component written out:
$$L_x=I_xxomega_x+I_xyomega_y+I_xzomega_z$$
$$L_y=I_yxomega_x+I_yyomega_y+I_yzomega_z$$
$$L_z=I_zxomega_x+I_zyomega_y+I_zzomega_z$$
This shows that, in general, $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ are not parallel. We have something more complicated than the linear case because each component of the angular momentum vector depends on all of the angular velocity components.
However, this complexity does not prevent our two vectors from being parallel. We can determine when they are parallel by looking at the equation
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega=Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $I$ is a scalar quantity. What this means is that $boldsymbolomega$ needs to be an eigenvalue of $mathbf I$ in order for $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ to be parallel. Note that this is usually what you encounter in your introductory physics classes. You, without knowing it, pick axes in such a way that the moment of inertia tensor is diagonal and your angular velocity is only along a single eigenvector (usually taken to be along the z-axis). For example, for a cylinder of radius $R$, height $H$, and mass $M$ rotating about its central axis aligned with the z-axis, we have
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0&0\
0&frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0\
0&0½MR^2
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
0\0\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Therefore we end up with the simple
$$mathbf L=L_zhat z=I_zzomega_zhat z=frac12MR^2omega_zhat z$$
or you might even see in an introductory physics class just
$$L=frac12MR^2omega$$
As a small note, the reason things become so much more complicated with the rotations is that the angular momentum not only depends on the mass of the object, but also how that mass is distributed. This is evident from the definition of angular momentum for a point particle $mathbf L=mathbf rtimesmathbf p$
However, if we look at an extended body's momentum we just get
$$mathbf p_T=m_Tmathbf v_textcom$$
where the $T$ subscript stands for "total" and "com$ is center of mass. Therefore, we still end up with a scalar mass instead of a tensor.
$endgroup$
This is because the definition of linear momentum $mathbf p$ is expressed in terms of the linear velocity $mathbf v$ using
$$mathbf p=mmathbf v$$
Since $m$ is just a scalar quantity, the vectors $mathbf p$ and $mathbf v$ are obviously parallel. i.e.
$$p_x=mv_x$$
$$p_y=mv_y$$
$$p_z=mv_z$$
However, the angular momentum $mathbf L$ is related to the angular velocity $boldsymbol omega$ by
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $mathbf I$ is the moment of inertia tensor. This is explicitly written out as
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
I_xx&I_xy&I_xz\
I_yx&I_yy&I_yz\
I_zx&I_zy&I_zz
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
omega_x\omega_y\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Or each component written out:
$$L_x=I_xxomega_x+I_xyomega_y+I_xzomega_z$$
$$L_y=I_yxomega_x+I_yyomega_y+I_yzomega_z$$
$$L_z=I_zxomega_x+I_zyomega_y+I_zzomega_z$$
This shows that, in general, $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ are not parallel. We have something more complicated than the linear case because each component of the angular momentum vector depends on all of the angular velocity components.
However, this complexity does not prevent our two vectors from being parallel. We can determine when they are parallel by looking at the equation
$$mathbf L=mathbf Iboldsymbolomega=Iboldsymbolomega$$
where $I$ is a scalar quantity. What this means is that $boldsymbolomega$ needs to be an eigenvalue of $mathbf I$ in order for $mathbf L$ and $boldsymbolomega$ to be parallel. Note that this is usually what you encounter in your introductory physics classes. You, without knowing it, pick axes in such a way that the moment of inertia tensor is diagonal and your angular velocity is only along a single eigenvector (usually taken to be along the z-axis). For example, for a cylinder of radius $R$, height $H$, and mass $M$ rotating about its central axis aligned with the z-axis, we have
$$
beginbmatrix
L_x\L_y\L_z
endbmatrix=
beginbmatrix
frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0&0\
0&frac112Mleft(3R^2+H^2right)&0\
0&0½MR^2
endbmatrix
beginbmatrix
0\0\omega_z
endbmatrix
$$
Therefore we end up with the simple
$$mathbf L=L_zhat z=I_zzomega_zhat z=frac12MR^2omega_zhat z$$
or you might even see in an introductory physics class just
$$L=frac12MR^2omega$$
As a small note, the reason things become so much more complicated with the rotations is that the angular momentum not only depends on the mass of the object, but also how that mass is distributed. This is evident from the definition of angular momentum for a point particle $mathbf L=mathbf rtimesmathbf p$
However, if we look at an extended body's momentum we just get
$$mathbf p_T=m_Tmathbf v_textcom$$
where the $T$ subscript stands for "total" and "com$ is center of mass. Therefore, we still end up with a scalar mass instead of a tensor.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
Aaron StevensAaron Stevens
18.5k4 gold badges29 silver badges68 bronze badges
18.5k4 gold badges29 silver badges68 bronze badges
$begingroup$
That's nice, but I think the OP want to know WHY mass can't become a tensor as well.
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ You must have better insight than myself. I don't see anything in the question asking about tensors or why mass can't become a tensor. I really don't even understand what that question means.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll try to explain. Most answers are explaining that $m$ is a scalar, and therefore $vecp$ is parallel to $vecv$, as $vecp=mvecv$. On the other hand, since $I$ is a tensor, then $vecL=Ivecomega$ is different. This can be an answer, but it would be great if someone went deeper. Why can't mass be a tensor too, so that $p$ needent be parallel to $v$ anymore?
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ I think I see what you are getting at. If you think about it, the tensor only arises when we move to an extended body. I might add something to my end note.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ The answer by WetSavannahAnimal goes pretty deep.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
That's nice, but I think the OP want to know WHY mass can't become a tensor as well.
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ You must have better insight than myself. I don't see anything in the question asking about tensors or why mass can't become a tensor. I really don't even understand what that question means.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll try to explain. Most answers are explaining that $m$ is a scalar, and therefore $vecp$ is parallel to $vecv$, as $vecp=mvecv$. On the other hand, since $I$ is a tensor, then $vecL=Ivecomega$ is different. This can be an answer, but it would be great if someone went deeper. Why can't mass be a tensor too, so that $p$ needent be parallel to $v$ anymore?
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ I think I see what you are getting at. If you think about it, the tensor only arises when we move to an extended body. I might add something to my end note.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ The answer by WetSavannahAnimal goes pretty deep.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
That's nice, but I think the OP want to know WHY mass can't become a tensor as well.
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's nice, but I think the OP want to know WHY mass can't become a tensor as well.
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ You must have better insight than myself. I don't see anything in the question asking about tensors or why mass can't become a tensor. I really don't even understand what that question means.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ You must have better insight than myself. I don't see anything in the question asking about tensors or why mass can't become a tensor. I really don't even understand what that question means.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll try to explain. Most answers are explaining that $m$ is a scalar, and therefore $vecp$ is parallel to $vecv$, as $vecp=mvecv$. On the other hand, since $I$ is a tensor, then $vecL=Ivecomega$ is different. This can be an answer, but it would be great if someone went deeper. Why can't mass be a tensor too, so that $p$ needent be parallel to $v$ anymore?
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll try to explain. Most answers are explaining that $m$ is a scalar, and therefore $vecp$ is parallel to $vecv$, as $vecp=mvecv$. On the other hand, since $I$ is a tensor, then $vecL=Ivecomega$ is different. This can be an answer, but it would be great if someone went deeper. Why can't mass be a tensor too, so that $p$ needent be parallel to $v$ anymore?
$endgroup$
– FGSUZ
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ I think I see what you are getting at. If you think about it, the tensor only arises when we move to an extended body. I might add something to my end note.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ I think I see what you are getting at. If you think about it, the tensor only arises when we move to an extended body. I might add something to my end note.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ The answer by WetSavannahAnimal goes pretty deep.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@FGSUZ The answer by WetSavannahAnimal goes pretty deep.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Mass is a scalar but mass moment of inertia is a tensor. As a result, a scalar can only change the magnitude of a vector, but a tensor can change both the magnitude and the direction.
From linear algebra:
$boldsymbolp = m boldsymbolv$ is always parallel to $boldsymbolv$ for $m neq 0$
$boldsymbolL = rmI, boldsymbolomega$ is only parallel when $boldsymbolomega$ is an eigenvector of $mathrmI$. A special case exists for symmetric objects like spheres and cubes where $mathrmI$ is a scalar multiple of the identity matrix.
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1
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - I agree. I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– ja72
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's cool. Although I must also say that scalar multiples of the identity matrix does not only happen for spheres. It's just that it's always true for spheres.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - Dang it!. Right again, a cube for example. Thank you for the corrections.
$endgroup$
– ja72
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or a cylinder whose height is $sqrt 3$ times its radius (see example in my answer). You could probably contrive it for any shape when you choose axes to make the tensor diagonal.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Mass is a scalar but mass moment of inertia is a tensor. As a result, a scalar can only change the magnitude of a vector, but a tensor can change both the magnitude and the direction.
From linear algebra:
$boldsymbolp = m boldsymbolv$ is always parallel to $boldsymbolv$ for $m neq 0$
$boldsymbolL = rmI, boldsymbolomega$ is only parallel when $boldsymbolomega$ is an eigenvector of $mathrmI$. A special case exists for symmetric objects like spheres and cubes where $mathrmI$ is a scalar multiple of the identity matrix.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - I agree. I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– ja72
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's cool. Although I must also say that scalar multiples of the identity matrix does not only happen for spheres. It's just that it's always true for spheres.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - Dang it!. Right again, a cube for example. Thank you for the corrections.
$endgroup$
– ja72
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or a cylinder whose height is $sqrt 3$ times its radius (see example in my answer). You could probably contrive it for any shape when you choose axes to make the tensor diagonal.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Mass is a scalar but mass moment of inertia is a tensor. As a result, a scalar can only change the magnitude of a vector, but a tensor can change both the magnitude and the direction.
From linear algebra:
$boldsymbolp = m boldsymbolv$ is always parallel to $boldsymbolv$ for $m neq 0$
$boldsymbolL = rmI, boldsymbolomega$ is only parallel when $boldsymbolomega$ is an eigenvector of $mathrmI$. A special case exists for symmetric objects like spheres and cubes where $mathrmI$ is a scalar multiple of the identity matrix.
$endgroup$
Mass is a scalar but mass moment of inertia is a tensor. As a result, a scalar can only change the magnitude of a vector, but a tensor can change both the magnitude and the direction.
From linear algebra:
$boldsymbolp = m boldsymbolv$ is always parallel to $boldsymbolv$ for $m neq 0$
$boldsymbolL = rmI, boldsymbolomega$ is only parallel when $boldsymbolomega$ is an eigenvector of $mathrmI$. A special case exists for symmetric objects like spheres and cubes where $mathrmI$ is a scalar multiple of the identity matrix.
edited 4 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
ja72ja72
21.6k4 gold badges35 silver badges105 bronze badges
21.6k4 gold badges35 silver badges105 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - I agree. I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– ja72
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's cool. Although I must also say that scalar multiples of the identity matrix does not only happen for spheres. It's just that it's always true for spheres.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - Dang it!. Right again, a cube for example. Thank you for the corrections.
$endgroup$
– ja72
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or a cylinder whose height is $sqrt 3$ times its radius (see example in my answer). You could probably contrive it for any shape when you choose axes to make the tensor diagonal.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - I agree. I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– ja72
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's cool. Although I must also say that scalar multiples of the identity matrix does not only happen for spheres. It's just that it's always true for spheres.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - Dang it!. Right again, a cube for example. Thank you for the corrections.
$endgroup$
– ja72
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or a cylinder whose height is $sqrt 3$ times its radius (see example in my answer). You could probably contrive it for any shape when you choose axes to make the tensor diagonal.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - I agree. I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– ja72
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - I agree. I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– ja72
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's cool. Although I must also say that scalar multiples of the identity matrix does not only happen for spheres. It's just that it's always true for spheres.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's cool. Although I must also say that scalar multiples of the identity matrix does not only happen for spheres. It's just that it's always true for spheres.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - Dang it!. Right again, a cube for example. Thank you for the corrections.
$endgroup$
– ja72
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AaronStevens - Dang it!. Right again, a cube for example. Thank you for the corrections.
$endgroup$
– ja72
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or a cylinder whose height is $sqrt 3$ times its radius (see example in my answer). You could probably contrive it for any shape when you choose axes to make the tensor diagonal.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or a cylinder whose height is $sqrt 3$ times its radius (see example in my answer). You could probably contrive it for any shape when you choose axes to make the tensor diagonal.
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Linear momentum is defined as
$$vecp=mvecv$$
where $m$ is a scalar (i.e. just a number). Multiplying a vector by a scalar does not change its direcction.
In contrast, angular momentum is defined as
$$vecL=oversetleftrightarrowIvecomega$$
where $oversetleftrightarrowI$ is a tensor (i.e. something like, but not quite exactly, a matrix). Multiplying a vector by a tensor can, and often does, change the direction of the vector.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Linear momentum is defined as
$$vecp=mvecv$$
where $m$ is a scalar (i.e. just a number). Multiplying a vector by a scalar does not change its direcction.
In contrast, angular momentum is defined as
$$vecL=oversetleftrightarrowIvecomega$$
where $oversetleftrightarrowI$ is a tensor (i.e. something like, but not quite exactly, a matrix). Multiplying a vector by a tensor can, and often does, change the direction of the vector.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Linear momentum is defined as
$$vecp=mvecv$$
where $m$ is a scalar (i.e. just a number). Multiplying a vector by a scalar does not change its direcction.
In contrast, angular momentum is defined as
$$vecL=oversetleftrightarrowIvecomega$$
where $oversetleftrightarrowI$ is a tensor (i.e. something like, but not quite exactly, a matrix). Multiplying a vector by a tensor can, and often does, change the direction of the vector.
$endgroup$
Linear momentum is defined as
$$vecp=mvecv$$
where $m$ is a scalar (i.e. just a number). Multiplying a vector by a scalar does not change its direcction.
In contrast, angular momentum is defined as
$$vecL=oversetleftrightarrowIvecomega$$
where $oversetleftrightarrowI$ is a tensor (i.e. something like, but not quite exactly, a matrix). Multiplying a vector by a tensor can, and often does, change the direction of the vector.
answered 7 hours ago
probably_someoneprobably_someone
21.3k1 gold badge33 silver badges66 bronze badges
21.3k1 gold badge33 silver badges66 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The other answers that say the difference arises because there is an inertia tensor in the rotation case are all perfectly correct, but i think we can go deeper and more intuitive that this and say:
Translations commute. Rotations don’t. That’s the fundamental reason for the difference. And it’s that way that these two different behaviors bear upon Noether’s theorem gives root to the difference between linear momentum, with its simple, scalar multiple relationship with velocity and angular momentum, with its more general linear transformation from the angular velocity vector.
Actually, the statement "Translations commute. Rotations don’t“ is a little glib and imprecise. But it's very close to being accurate. To be more precise, one would say rotations form a more complicated, noncommutative Lie group, whereas translations form „the" three dimensional commutative Lie group (commutative Lie groups of a given dimension are essentially all the same - there can be a topological difference in that the mutually commuting one parameter groups can be compact or not, but from the Lie algebra standpoint they are all exactly the same, and Noether’s theorem is only influenced by the Lie algebra, not by the group topology).
Recall that the reason for being for angular and linear momentum - what makes them useful concepts - is that they are conserved quantities of a physical system (in the absence of external forces). And, although Noether’s theorem is not the only mechanism that gives rise to conserved quantities in physics, it is in this case. So, if we want fundamental, intuitive insight into this question, we must look at how Noether’s theorem plays out in the two cases.
Let’s grab the expression from Wikipedia for the conserved Noether current:
$$left(fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot dotmathbfq - L right) T_r - fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag1$$
This is a very physicist equation and needs explanation if you’re not familiar with its notation and jargon. Noether’s theorem states that if the Lagrangian of a system is time-translation-invariant and is invariant with respect to a continuous, one-parameter group of transformations on the system’s generalized co-ordinates, then there is a conserved quantity for each such one parameter group, called to Noether charge. For example: rotations of the co-ordinate system about an axis - the rotation’s magnitude can be smoothly varied with the rotation angle - or translations along a given direction of the co-ordinate origin, which are parameterized by a 1continuous signed distance value. In (1), $mathbfQ_r$ is the „generator" of the continuous transformation in question (explained below). The first part of (1) - the bit to the left of $T_r$, has to do with the continuous transformation of translating the time co-ordinate, and is not important for the present considerations. It gives rise to the energy as a c1onserved quantity. So we look at the part that is nonzero for the transformations (on the non-time co-ordinates) that we’re interested in:
$$fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag2$$
As someone versed in a more Lie theoretical understanding of these matters, i would write the above equation more to my taste as follows:
$$mathbfQ_r fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq = mathbfQ_r , mathbfptag3$$
where $fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq$ is a vector whose components are the generalized momenta $p_i = fracpartial Lpartial dotq_i$ corresponding to the generalized co-ordinates $p_i$ of the Lagrangian description. In the above, $mathbfQ_r$ is the matrix of the Lie algebra member when the Lie group in question acts on the generalized co-ordinates.
So, let’s see how (3) pans out. If our Lagrangian is independent of the generalized co-ordinates themselves, then the matrix of the translation in the $i^th$ direction is simply diagonal with noughts along its leading diagonal except at the $i^th$ position. So (3) just says that the $i^th$ component of the generalized momentum $mathbfp$ is conserved. Or, repeating the argument for each $i$, the $mathbfp$ itself is conserved. So the situation is very simple for translations in the co-ordinates themselves.
However, if the concept of rotation of generalized co-ordinates is meaningful, and, if further, the Lagrangian is invariant with respect to rotations in the generalized co-ordinates, then the matrix $mathbfQ_r$ in (3) is the Lie algebra member of $SO(N)$ corresponding to rotation about the axis in question, times the distance $r$ from the co-ordinate origin (this is the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus operator $mathbfomegatimesmathbfr$ in 3 dimensions). So already, without assuming anything about the expressions for angular or linear momentum aside from that our Lagrangian is invariant to translations and rotations, we can see that the expressions for the conserved linear momentums are simply the generalized momentums themselves, whereas the conserved angular momentums, by dent of the more complicated Lie algebra for $SO(N)$ are matrix operations on the generalized momentums.
If we further assume that the generalized momentum is $m_i,r, mathbfQ_r dottheta_r$ (the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus expression $mathbfomegatimes mathbfr$ in 3 dimensions), then our Noether charge is:
$$m ,r^2 ,mathbfQ_r^2 dottheta_rtag5$$
and this quantity is conserved for each co-ordinate $r$. This is readily shown to mean the same thing as the conservation of $mathbfL = mathbfI,mathbfomega$ when summed over all particles in a rigid body.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The other answers that say the difference arises because there is an inertia tensor in the rotation case are all perfectly correct, but i think we can go deeper and more intuitive that this and say:
Translations commute. Rotations don’t. That’s the fundamental reason for the difference. And it’s that way that these two different behaviors bear upon Noether’s theorem gives root to the difference between linear momentum, with its simple, scalar multiple relationship with velocity and angular momentum, with its more general linear transformation from the angular velocity vector.
Actually, the statement "Translations commute. Rotations don’t“ is a little glib and imprecise. But it's very close to being accurate. To be more precise, one would say rotations form a more complicated, noncommutative Lie group, whereas translations form „the" three dimensional commutative Lie group (commutative Lie groups of a given dimension are essentially all the same - there can be a topological difference in that the mutually commuting one parameter groups can be compact or not, but from the Lie algebra standpoint they are all exactly the same, and Noether’s theorem is only influenced by the Lie algebra, not by the group topology).
Recall that the reason for being for angular and linear momentum - what makes them useful concepts - is that they are conserved quantities of a physical system (in the absence of external forces). And, although Noether’s theorem is not the only mechanism that gives rise to conserved quantities in physics, it is in this case. So, if we want fundamental, intuitive insight into this question, we must look at how Noether’s theorem plays out in the two cases.
Let’s grab the expression from Wikipedia for the conserved Noether current:
$$left(fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot dotmathbfq - L right) T_r - fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag1$$
This is a very physicist equation and needs explanation if you’re not familiar with its notation and jargon. Noether’s theorem states that if the Lagrangian of a system is time-translation-invariant and is invariant with respect to a continuous, one-parameter group of transformations on the system’s generalized co-ordinates, then there is a conserved quantity for each such one parameter group, called to Noether charge. For example: rotations of the co-ordinate system about an axis - the rotation’s magnitude can be smoothly varied with the rotation angle - or translations along a given direction of the co-ordinate origin, which are parameterized by a 1continuous signed distance value. In (1), $mathbfQ_r$ is the „generator" of the continuous transformation in question (explained below). The first part of (1) - the bit to the left of $T_r$, has to do with the continuous transformation of translating the time co-ordinate, and is not important for the present considerations. It gives rise to the energy as a c1onserved quantity. So we look at the part that is nonzero for the transformations (on the non-time co-ordinates) that we’re interested in:
$$fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag2$$
As someone versed in a more Lie theoretical understanding of these matters, i would write the above equation more to my taste as follows:
$$mathbfQ_r fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq = mathbfQ_r , mathbfptag3$$
where $fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq$ is a vector whose components are the generalized momenta $p_i = fracpartial Lpartial dotq_i$ corresponding to the generalized co-ordinates $p_i$ of the Lagrangian description. In the above, $mathbfQ_r$ is the matrix of the Lie algebra member when the Lie group in question acts on the generalized co-ordinates.
So, let’s see how (3) pans out. If our Lagrangian is independent of the generalized co-ordinates themselves, then the matrix of the translation in the $i^th$ direction is simply diagonal with noughts along its leading diagonal except at the $i^th$ position. So (3) just says that the $i^th$ component of the generalized momentum $mathbfp$ is conserved. Or, repeating the argument for each $i$, the $mathbfp$ itself is conserved. So the situation is very simple for translations in the co-ordinates themselves.
However, if the concept of rotation of generalized co-ordinates is meaningful, and, if further, the Lagrangian is invariant with respect to rotations in the generalized co-ordinates, then the matrix $mathbfQ_r$ in (3) is the Lie algebra member of $SO(N)$ corresponding to rotation about the axis in question, times the distance $r$ from the co-ordinate origin (this is the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus operator $mathbfomegatimesmathbfr$ in 3 dimensions). So already, without assuming anything about the expressions for angular or linear momentum aside from that our Lagrangian is invariant to translations and rotations, we can see that the expressions for the conserved linear momentums are simply the generalized momentums themselves, whereas the conserved angular momentums, by dent of the more complicated Lie algebra for $SO(N)$ are matrix operations on the generalized momentums.
If we further assume that the generalized momentum is $m_i,r, mathbfQ_r dottheta_r$ (the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus expression $mathbfomegatimes mathbfr$ in 3 dimensions), then our Noether charge is:
$$m ,r^2 ,mathbfQ_r^2 dottheta_rtag5$$
and this quantity is conserved for each co-ordinate $r$. This is readily shown to mean the same thing as the conservation of $mathbfL = mathbfI,mathbfomega$ when summed over all particles in a rigid body.
$endgroup$
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$begingroup$
The other answers that say the difference arises because there is an inertia tensor in the rotation case are all perfectly correct, but i think we can go deeper and more intuitive that this and say:
Translations commute. Rotations don’t. That’s the fundamental reason for the difference. And it’s that way that these two different behaviors bear upon Noether’s theorem gives root to the difference between linear momentum, with its simple, scalar multiple relationship with velocity and angular momentum, with its more general linear transformation from the angular velocity vector.
Actually, the statement "Translations commute. Rotations don’t“ is a little glib and imprecise. But it's very close to being accurate. To be more precise, one would say rotations form a more complicated, noncommutative Lie group, whereas translations form „the" three dimensional commutative Lie group (commutative Lie groups of a given dimension are essentially all the same - there can be a topological difference in that the mutually commuting one parameter groups can be compact or not, but from the Lie algebra standpoint they are all exactly the same, and Noether’s theorem is only influenced by the Lie algebra, not by the group topology).
Recall that the reason for being for angular and linear momentum - what makes them useful concepts - is that they are conserved quantities of a physical system (in the absence of external forces). And, although Noether’s theorem is not the only mechanism that gives rise to conserved quantities in physics, it is in this case. So, if we want fundamental, intuitive insight into this question, we must look at how Noether’s theorem plays out in the two cases.
Let’s grab the expression from Wikipedia for the conserved Noether current:
$$left(fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot dotmathbfq - L right) T_r - fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag1$$
This is a very physicist equation and needs explanation if you’re not familiar with its notation and jargon. Noether’s theorem states that if the Lagrangian of a system is time-translation-invariant and is invariant with respect to a continuous, one-parameter group of transformations on the system’s generalized co-ordinates, then there is a conserved quantity for each such one parameter group, called to Noether charge. For example: rotations of the co-ordinate system about an axis - the rotation’s magnitude can be smoothly varied with the rotation angle - or translations along a given direction of the co-ordinate origin, which are parameterized by a 1continuous signed distance value. In (1), $mathbfQ_r$ is the „generator" of the continuous transformation in question (explained below). The first part of (1) - the bit to the left of $T_r$, has to do with the continuous transformation of translating the time co-ordinate, and is not important for the present considerations. It gives rise to the energy as a c1onserved quantity. So we look at the part that is nonzero for the transformations (on the non-time co-ordinates) that we’re interested in:
$$fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag2$$
As someone versed in a more Lie theoretical understanding of these matters, i would write the above equation more to my taste as follows:
$$mathbfQ_r fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq = mathbfQ_r , mathbfptag3$$
where $fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq$ is a vector whose components are the generalized momenta $p_i = fracpartial Lpartial dotq_i$ corresponding to the generalized co-ordinates $p_i$ of the Lagrangian description. In the above, $mathbfQ_r$ is the matrix of the Lie algebra member when the Lie group in question acts on the generalized co-ordinates.
So, let’s see how (3) pans out. If our Lagrangian is independent of the generalized co-ordinates themselves, then the matrix of the translation in the $i^th$ direction is simply diagonal with noughts along its leading diagonal except at the $i^th$ position. So (3) just says that the $i^th$ component of the generalized momentum $mathbfp$ is conserved. Or, repeating the argument for each $i$, the $mathbfp$ itself is conserved. So the situation is very simple for translations in the co-ordinates themselves.
However, if the concept of rotation of generalized co-ordinates is meaningful, and, if further, the Lagrangian is invariant with respect to rotations in the generalized co-ordinates, then the matrix $mathbfQ_r$ in (3) is the Lie algebra member of $SO(N)$ corresponding to rotation about the axis in question, times the distance $r$ from the co-ordinate origin (this is the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus operator $mathbfomegatimesmathbfr$ in 3 dimensions). So already, without assuming anything about the expressions for angular or linear momentum aside from that our Lagrangian is invariant to translations and rotations, we can see that the expressions for the conserved linear momentums are simply the generalized momentums themselves, whereas the conserved angular momentums, by dent of the more complicated Lie algebra for $SO(N)$ are matrix operations on the generalized momentums.
If we further assume that the generalized momentum is $m_i,r, mathbfQ_r dottheta_r$ (the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus expression $mathbfomegatimes mathbfr$ in 3 dimensions), then our Noether charge is:
$$m ,r^2 ,mathbfQ_r^2 dottheta_rtag5$$
and this quantity is conserved for each co-ordinate $r$. This is readily shown to mean the same thing as the conservation of $mathbfL = mathbfI,mathbfomega$ when summed over all particles in a rigid body.
$endgroup$
The other answers that say the difference arises because there is an inertia tensor in the rotation case are all perfectly correct, but i think we can go deeper and more intuitive that this and say:
Translations commute. Rotations don’t. That’s the fundamental reason for the difference. And it’s that way that these two different behaviors bear upon Noether’s theorem gives root to the difference between linear momentum, with its simple, scalar multiple relationship with velocity and angular momentum, with its more general linear transformation from the angular velocity vector.
Actually, the statement "Translations commute. Rotations don’t“ is a little glib and imprecise. But it's very close to being accurate. To be more precise, one would say rotations form a more complicated, noncommutative Lie group, whereas translations form „the" three dimensional commutative Lie group (commutative Lie groups of a given dimension are essentially all the same - there can be a topological difference in that the mutually commuting one parameter groups can be compact or not, but from the Lie algebra standpoint they are all exactly the same, and Noether’s theorem is only influenced by the Lie algebra, not by the group topology).
Recall that the reason for being for angular and linear momentum - what makes them useful concepts - is that they are conserved quantities of a physical system (in the absence of external forces). And, although Noether’s theorem is not the only mechanism that gives rise to conserved quantities in physics, it is in this case. So, if we want fundamental, intuitive insight into this question, we must look at how Noether’s theorem plays out in the two cases.
Let’s grab the expression from Wikipedia for the conserved Noether current:
$$left(fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot dotmathbfq - L right) T_r - fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag1$$
This is a very physicist equation and needs explanation if you’re not familiar with its notation and jargon. Noether’s theorem states that if the Lagrangian of a system is time-translation-invariant and is invariant with respect to a continuous, one-parameter group of transformations on the system’s generalized co-ordinates, then there is a conserved quantity for each such one parameter group, called to Noether charge. For example: rotations of the co-ordinate system about an axis - the rotation’s magnitude can be smoothly varied with the rotation angle - or translations along a given direction of the co-ordinate origin, which are parameterized by a 1continuous signed distance value. In (1), $mathbfQ_r$ is the „generator" of the continuous transformation in question (explained below). The first part of (1) - the bit to the left of $T_r$, has to do with the continuous transformation of translating the time co-ordinate, and is not important for the present considerations. It gives rise to the energy as a c1onserved quantity. So we look at the part that is nonzero for the transformations (on the non-time co-ordinates) that we’re interested in:
$$fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq cdot mathbfQ_rtag2$$
As someone versed in a more Lie theoretical understanding of these matters, i would write the above equation more to my taste as follows:
$$mathbfQ_r fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq = mathbfQ_r , mathbfptag3$$
where $fracpartial Lpartial dotmathbfq$ is a vector whose components are the generalized momenta $p_i = fracpartial Lpartial dotq_i$ corresponding to the generalized co-ordinates $p_i$ of the Lagrangian description. In the above, $mathbfQ_r$ is the matrix of the Lie algebra member when the Lie group in question acts on the generalized co-ordinates.
So, let’s see how (3) pans out. If our Lagrangian is independent of the generalized co-ordinates themselves, then the matrix of the translation in the $i^th$ direction is simply diagonal with noughts along its leading diagonal except at the $i^th$ position. So (3) just says that the $i^th$ component of the generalized momentum $mathbfp$ is conserved. Or, repeating the argument for each $i$, the $mathbfp$ itself is conserved. So the situation is very simple for translations in the co-ordinates themselves.
However, if the concept of rotation of generalized co-ordinates is meaningful, and, if further, the Lagrangian is invariant with respect to rotations in the generalized co-ordinates, then the matrix $mathbfQ_r$ in (3) is the Lie algebra member of $SO(N)$ corresponding to rotation about the axis in question, times the distance $r$ from the co-ordinate origin (this is the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus operator $mathbfomegatimesmathbfr$ in 3 dimensions). So already, without assuming anything about the expressions for angular or linear momentum aside from that our Lagrangian is invariant to translations and rotations, we can see that the expressions for the conserved linear momentums are simply the generalized momentums themselves, whereas the conserved angular momentums, by dent of the more complicated Lie algebra for $SO(N)$ are matrix operations on the generalized momentums.
If we further assume that the generalized momentum is $m_i,r, mathbfQ_r dottheta_r$ (the $N$-dimensional generalization corresponding to the vector calculus expression $mathbfomegatimes mathbfr$ in 3 dimensions), then our Noether charge is:
$$m ,r^2 ,mathbfQ_r^2 dottheta_rtag5$$
and this quantity is conserved for each co-ordinate $r$. This is readily shown to mean the same thing as the conservation of $mathbfL = mathbfI,mathbfomega$ when summed over all particles in a rigid body.
answered 1 hour ago
WetSavannaAnimalWetSavannaAnimal
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Aaliya Ahamed is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Possible duplicate of Can the direction of angular momentum and angular velocity differ?
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– yuvraj singh
8 hours ago
1
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@yuvrajsingh I disagree. That is more of a related question. This question is asking for more of a comparison between "linear" and "angular", and why a difference arises.
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– Aaron Stevens
7 hours ago
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FWIW, canonical/conjugate momentum does not have to be parallel to velocity, e.g. in an E&M background.
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– Qmechanic♦
1 hour ago
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Note that the angular momentum pseudovector is a different geometric object from the linear momentum vector. This distinction becomes apparent in Special Relativity where there is a linear momentum four-vector but an antisymmetric angular momentum tensor.
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– Hal Hollis
48 mins ago