What does the Find Familiar spell target?Can a Sorcerer Twin Telekinesis, Eyebite, and Bigby's Hand?What happens when I Twin Life Transference?Who controls a summoned steed’s familiar?What counts as a target for a spell?How does the Chain Lightning spell target?What does “familiar” mean in the Sending spell?What qualifies for the target of a spell?What Implications does Celestial/Fiend/Fey make for find familiar or find steed?Barring telepathy or direct observation, what information does Find Familiar provide the caster regarding the familiar's state?Does a touch-range spell cast using Find Familiar have to have line of sight from the caster?How does dismissing my familiar from the Find Familiar spell interact with the Flock of Familiars spell?Can you use the Twinned Spell Metamagic on Greater Invisibility?What counts as a target for a spell?Who controls a summoned steed’s familiar?

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What does the Find Familiar spell target?

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What does the Find Familiar spell target?


Can a Sorcerer Twin Telekinesis, Eyebite, and Bigby's Hand?What happens when I Twin Life Transference?Who controls a summoned steed’s familiar?What counts as a target for a spell?How does the Chain Lightning spell target?What does “familiar” mean in the Sending spell?What qualifies for the target of a spell?What Implications does Celestial/Fiend/Fey make for find familiar or find steed?Barring telepathy or direct observation, what information does Find Familiar provide the caster regarding the familiar's state?Does a touch-range spell cast using Find Familiar have to have line of sight from the caster?How does dismissing my familiar from the Find Familiar spell interact with the Flock of Familiars spell?Can you use the Twinned Spell Metamagic on Greater Invisibility?What counts as a target for a spell?Who controls a summoned steed’s familiar?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








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Directly pulling from this Q/A about who controls a summoned steed's familiar, I am wondering what the find familiar spell targets.



Does the find familiar spell target the caster, a point in space, the familiar, or something else I may have missed?










share|improve this question











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    7












    $begingroup$


    Directly pulling from this Q/A about who controls a summoned steed's familiar, I am wondering what the find familiar spell targets.



    Does the find familiar spell target the caster, a point in space, the familiar, or something else I may have missed?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$














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      7








      7


      1



      $begingroup$


      Directly pulling from this Q/A about who controls a summoned steed's familiar, I am wondering what the find familiar spell targets.



      Does the find familiar spell target the caster, a point in space, the familiar, or something else I may have missed?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Directly pulling from this Q/A about who controls a summoned steed's familiar, I am wondering what the find familiar spell targets.



      Does the find familiar spell target the caster, a point in space, the familiar, or something else I may have missed?







      dnd-5e spells targeting






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 8 hours ago







      Medix2

















      asked 10 hours ago









      Medix2Medix2

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      3,0211 gold badge8 silver badges42 bronze badges




















          5 Answers
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          find familiar (probably) only targets a point in space



          Under the Targets section it states:




          A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect...




          Technically, one could argue that the quote implies only area of effect spells can target points of origin, and thus summoning spells such as spiritual weapon and find familiar perhaps do not have points of origin; however, the summoned thing fills the space in which it is summoned, and thus, I believe, is still an area of effect.

          For more evidence that these should count as areas of effect we can look at a spell like cloud of daggers which also fills only a 5-by-5 area but is considered to be an area of effect.

          There is also this Q/A asking about whether bigby's hand can be twinned, the second answer there says that bigby's hand targets an unoccupied space and the answer currently has 18 upvotes and nobody disagreed with this idea so it seems quite well agreed upon that summoning/conjuring spells do indeed target spaces.




          And under the Range section it states:




          The target of a spell must be within the spell's range...




          Looking at find familiar we see that it has a range of 10 feet, so the target must be within 10 feet; the spell goes on to say:




          You gain the service of a familiar... Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




          The caster chooses which space it appears in and thus find familiar at least targets the space they choose, as this is the spell's point of origin.



          We also see under the "Targeting Yourself" section that:




          If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself...




          find familiar does not target a creature of the caster's choice so this method will not let it target the caster.



          And furthermore under the "Range" section we also see that:




          Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you. These spells have a range of self.




          find familiar does not have a range of self and so cannot target the caster using this method either.




          This Q/A on what counts as a target for a spell finds that the definition is quite complicated and horribly undefined/ambiguous.

          If we use the approach that anything affected by a spell is considered a target then find familiar potentially does target you because it affects you in some way; it grants you a familiar, which you control.



          The comments in This Q/A however, show that adopting this idea that "anything affected is considered a target" has some issues because what counts as being affected is still just as undefined. "Do touch spells technically target the caster? (You are "affected" as you have to touch something)", "Does levitate target the caster (you can move the creature affected by the spell so is that considered to be "affecting" you?)"



          There isn't a good way to use the "if something is affected it is a target" method. This is likely a result of 5e being written in "plain English" yet we attempt to apply lawer-like rules strictness to it (I am not saying that is a bad thing, just a thing that is done by many, including myself).

          If you did use this interpretation, then find familiar could technically be considered to be targeting the caster as, to some degree, it is affecting them, but I would say this is more up your GM than anybody else.






          share|improve this answer











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            Not You



            The target doesn't have to be a creature:




            A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.




            Find familiar doesn't target you at all. For instance no one would argue that [fireball][3] targets the finger of the caster despite reading:




            A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range




            We can all agree that it is the point in space that is the target. And [magic missile][4] isn't the caster despite beginning with the word "You". The target in this case is again, the people where the action happens:




            You create three glowing darts of magical force.




            Then What?



            The spell find familiar reads similiar to magical missile and fireball in this regard. You do something, and something happens to or at a target. You have not changed, the world has by the addition of the new creature:




            You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




            Leaving either the summoned animal form of the familiar or the space it appears in as the target (or both). Both are where the action of the spell actually takes place.



            Between the animal form is chosen, but it isn't in line of sight at the time of casting, so it likely isn't the form or spirit.



            The space makes the most sense from a logical point of view. And the wording in that regard is similar to spells like fireball which has clearer targeting language.






            share|improve this answer









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            • 1




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              It doesn't change your argument about the caster's finger not being a target, but in addition to targeting a point in space, the text of Fireball also describes any affected creature as a target (as was pointed out to me recently). It's kind of confusing.
              $endgroup$
              – Ryan Thompson
              8 hours ago











            • $begingroup$
              This answer in it’s current form is wrong in that the fireball and other spells specifically mention how other creatures can be targeted.
              $endgroup$
              – Amethyst Wizard
              7 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Fireball “each creature in a 20 foot radius sphere must make a dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage...”
              $endgroup$
              – Amethyst Wizard
              7 hours ago


















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            "Target" is a sort of nebulous concept in 5e, but per Jeremy Crawford's comments in the past, any creature affected by a spell is its target. It seems to me that the answer is either you and the new familiar are both targets, or nothing is. Does a spell necessarily have to have a target at all?



            But maybe the better question is, why does it matter? Target is a sort of squishy concept, but what practical difference does it make?






            share|improve this answer









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            • $begingroup$
              A few examples of when it matters: find steed, War Caster, glyph of warding, and Twinned Spell all can only occur based on various restrictions on who/what some specific spell actually targets
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              – Medix2
              10 hours ago







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              @Medix2 To make it even more complicated, some of those abilities care about what the spell actually targets, while others care about what the spell is capable of targeting.
              $endgroup$
              – Ryan Thompson
              10 hours ago






            • 2




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              This is a decent answer, I upvoted it because of two logical points. It's reasonable to think if you are effected by a spell you could be the spells target. And the point, "does a spell have to have a target at all?" is hard to refute.
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              – Amethyst Wizard
              5 hours ago


















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            Nothing, or maybe yourself, or maybe a space within 10', but probably nothing



            Not all spells have targets. 'Target', for some reason, wasn't chosen as a term to be defined in the rules even though the rulebook likes to pretend it has some sort of unambiguous meaning. Because of this, we're supposed to pretend there's some 'normal' way of using the word and then do that. This is a serious problem for edge cases, but this isn't one of those so it's not really a problem. Find Familiar doesn't have any clear or obvious implicit targets besides maybe 'an unoccupied space within range', and that's a bit of a stretch, so it probably just doesn't target anything. 'Targetting' yourself is a weird and unnatural usage of the word if you couldn't target anything else-- 'targeting' invokes the idea of a choice being made among multople possible options-- so it's probably not that.



            But wait! Some abilities literally do nothing if there aren't any spells that can only target the caster! That clearly isn't intended. Those spells are clearly using 'target' the way it's used in Magic: The Gathering instead of normal English. With that meaning of targeting pretty much every spell that has a range of 'self' and several that don't-- possibly including Find Familiar count. D&D 5e isn't MTG and doesn't have the kind of parsinimous action resolution system that the latter employs, so it's really not very simple to decide what things each spell 'targets', if any, in such a system.



            Now, even if we use targetting that way, Find Familiar has a range of 10', not self, and while it's not unreasonable to rule, in a vacuum, that it targets the caster, it's certainly not necessary-- it makes just as much sense to rule the Find Familiar has no targets. Given that allowing Find Familiar to count as targeting the caster results in a huge jump in power for the spell, it seems unlikely most GMs would rule that way.






            share|improve this answer









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              The spell Find Familiar targets the caster.



              In the targets section of the Players Handbook it states:




              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




              With the spell Find Familiar, it’s description clearly denotes that “you” are the target:




              You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form
              you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl,
              poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or
              weasel. (PHB, pg 240)




              There are several key points that make for a convincing argument.



              1. The spell effect can’t apply to any other creature but the caster, unlike other spells.

              2. The spells description, specifically states: “You gain the service of a familiar.” And the only relevant part of the targeting rules is that “a spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.”

              There is no more required for this interpretation to be correct, however for those unconvinced I will go on to explain why the other explanations are not sufficient.



              The questioner asks if the spell can target the familiar. No the spell cannot target the familiar because the familiar doesn’t yet exist. But for sake of argument, lets pretend there is at all times an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature following you around waiting for you to cast the spell, the following rules would disqualify that creature from being a target.




              1. The target of a spell has to be in the spells range. (PHB, pg 202)


              2. A clear path to the target. To target something you must have a clear path to it, so it cant be behind total cover. (PHB, pg 204)




              You can’t target an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature because the rules forbid it.



              Next, a person may mistakenly believe the target for Find Familiar could be a point of origin. However, the rules state that targets with a point of origin must have an area of affect.




              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




              There is nothing in the spells description to indicate that the Find Familiar spell is an area of effect spell, no radius or diameter or shape is described in the spell to instruct that type of interpretation.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                This is actually a quite good argument and I ran into the area of effect / point of origin problem as well in my answer. I just don't think it's "clear" that it targets the caster (as the answers here show, defining what counts as a "target" is pretty much a mess). Though, if every spell has to have a target and find familiar can't target a point in space (point of origin) because it's not an area of effect then I would agree that the caster must be the target.
                $endgroup$
                – Medix2
                2 hours ago














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              $begingroup$


              find familiar (probably) only targets a point in space



              Under the Targets section it states:




              A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect...




              Technically, one could argue that the quote implies only area of effect spells can target points of origin, and thus summoning spells such as spiritual weapon and find familiar perhaps do not have points of origin; however, the summoned thing fills the space in which it is summoned, and thus, I believe, is still an area of effect.

              For more evidence that these should count as areas of effect we can look at a spell like cloud of daggers which also fills only a 5-by-5 area but is considered to be an area of effect.

              There is also this Q/A asking about whether bigby's hand can be twinned, the second answer there says that bigby's hand targets an unoccupied space and the answer currently has 18 upvotes and nobody disagreed with this idea so it seems quite well agreed upon that summoning/conjuring spells do indeed target spaces.




              And under the Range section it states:




              The target of a spell must be within the spell's range...




              Looking at find familiar we see that it has a range of 10 feet, so the target must be within 10 feet; the spell goes on to say:




              You gain the service of a familiar... Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




              The caster chooses which space it appears in and thus find familiar at least targets the space they choose, as this is the spell's point of origin.



              We also see under the "Targeting Yourself" section that:




              If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself...




              find familiar does not target a creature of the caster's choice so this method will not let it target the caster.



              And furthermore under the "Range" section we also see that:




              Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you. These spells have a range of self.




              find familiar does not have a range of self and so cannot target the caster using this method either.




              This Q/A on what counts as a target for a spell finds that the definition is quite complicated and horribly undefined/ambiguous.

              If we use the approach that anything affected by a spell is considered a target then find familiar potentially does target you because it affects you in some way; it grants you a familiar, which you control.



              The comments in This Q/A however, show that adopting this idea that "anything affected is considered a target" has some issues because what counts as being affected is still just as undefined. "Do touch spells technically target the caster? (You are "affected" as you have to touch something)", "Does levitate target the caster (you can move the creature affected by the spell so is that considered to be "affecting" you?)"



              There isn't a good way to use the "if something is affected it is a target" method. This is likely a result of 5e being written in "plain English" yet we attempt to apply lawer-like rules strictness to it (I am not saying that is a bad thing, just a thing that is done by many, including myself).

              If you did use this interpretation, then find familiar could technically be considered to be targeting the caster as, to some degree, it is affecting them, but I would say this is more up your GM than anybody else.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                12












                $begingroup$


                find familiar (probably) only targets a point in space



                Under the Targets section it states:




                A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect...




                Technically, one could argue that the quote implies only area of effect spells can target points of origin, and thus summoning spells such as spiritual weapon and find familiar perhaps do not have points of origin; however, the summoned thing fills the space in which it is summoned, and thus, I believe, is still an area of effect.

                For more evidence that these should count as areas of effect we can look at a spell like cloud of daggers which also fills only a 5-by-5 area but is considered to be an area of effect.

                There is also this Q/A asking about whether bigby's hand can be twinned, the second answer there says that bigby's hand targets an unoccupied space and the answer currently has 18 upvotes and nobody disagreed with this idea so it seems quite well agreed upon that summoning/conjuring spells do indeed target spaces.




                And under the Range section it states:




                The target of a spell must be within the spell's range...




                Looking at find familiar we see that it has a range of 10 feet, so the target must be within 10 feet; the spell goes on to say:




                You gain the service of a familiar... Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




                The caster chooses which space it appears in and thus find familiar at least targets the space they choose, as this is the spell's point of origin.



                We also see under the "Targeting Yourself" section that:




                If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself...




                find familiar does not target a creature of the caster's choice so this method will not let it target the caster.



                And furthermore under the "Range" section we also see that:




                Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you. These spells have a range of self.




                find familiar does not have a range of self and so cannot target the caster using this method either.




                This Q/A on what counts as a target for a spell finds that the definition is quite complicated and horribly undefined/ambiguous.

                If we use the approach that anything affected by a spell is considered a target then find familiar potentially does target you because it affects you in some way; it grants you a familiar, which you control.



                The comments in This Q/A however, show that adopting this idea that "anything affected is considered a target" has some issues because what counts as being affected is still just as undefined. "Do touch spells technically target the caster? (You are "affected" as you have to touch something)", "Does levitate target the caster (you can move the creature affected by the spell so is that considered to be "affecting" you?)"



                There isn't a good way to use the "if something is affected it is a target" method. This is likely a result of 5e being written in "plain English" yet we attempt to apply lawer-like rules strictness to it (I am not saying that is a bad thing, just a thing that is done by many, including myself).

                If you did use this interpretation, then find familiar could technically be considered to be targeting the caster as, to some degree, it is affecting them, but I would say this is more up your GM than anybody else.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  12












                  12








                  12





                  $begingroup$


                  find familiar (probably) only targets a point in space



                  Under the Targets section it states:




                  A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect...




                  Technically, one could argue that the quote implies only area of effect spells can target points of origin, and thus summoning spells such as spiritual weapon and find familiar perhaps do not have points of origin; however, the summoned thing fills the space in which it is summoned, and thus, I believe, is still an area of effect.

                  For more evidence that these should count as areas of effect we can look at a spell like cloud of daggers which also fills only a 5-by-5 area but is considered to be an area of effect.

                  There is also this Q/A asking about whether bigby's hand can be twinned, the second answer there says that bigby's hand targets an unoccupied space and the answer currently has 18 upvotes and nobody disagreed with this idea so it seems quite well agreed upon that summoning/conjuring spells do indeed target spaces.




                  And under the Range section it states:




                  The target of a spell must be within the spell's range...




                  Looking at find familiar we see that it has a range of 10 feet, so the target must be within 10 feet; the spell goes on to say:




                  You gain the service of a familiar... Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




                  The caster chooses which space it appears in and thus find familiar at least targets the space they choose, as this is the spell's point of origin.



                  We also see under the "Targeting Yourself" section that:




                  If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself...




                  find familiar does not target a creature of the caster's choice so this method will not let it target the caster.



                  And furthermore under the "Range" section we also see that:




                  Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you. These spells have a range of self.




                  find familiar does not have a range of self and so cannot target the caster using this method either.




                  This Q/A on what counts as a target for a spell finds that the definition is quite complicated and horribly undefined/ambiguous.

                  If we use the approach that anything affected by a spell is considered a target then find familiar potentially does target you because it affects you in some way; it grants you a familiar, which you control.



                  The comments in This Q/A however, show that adopting this idea that "anything affected is considered a target" has some issues because what counts as being affected is still just as undefined. "Do touch spells technically target the caster? (You are "affected" as you have to touch something)", "Does levitate target the caster (you can move the creature affected by the spell so is that considered to be "affecting" you?)"



                  There isn't a good way to use the "if something is affected it is a target" method. This is likely a result of 5e being written in "plain English" yet we attempt to apply lawer-like rules strictness to it (I am not saying that is a bad thing, just a thing that is done by many, including myself).

                  If you did use this interpretation, then find familiar could technically be considered to be targeting the caster as, to some degree, it is affecting them, but I would say this is more up your GM than anybody else.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$




                  find familiar (probably) only targets a point in space



                  Under the Targets section it states:




                  A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect...




                  Technically, one could argue that the quote implies only area of effect spells can target points of origin, and thus summoning spells such as spiritual weapon and find familiar perhaps do not have points of origin; however, the summoned thing fills the space in which it is summoned, and thus, I believe, is still an area of effect.

                  For more evidence that these should count as areas of effect we can look at a spell like cloud of daggers which also fills only a 5-by-5 area but is considered to be an area of effect.

                  There is also this Q/A asking about whether bigby's hand can be twinned, the second answer there says that bigby's hand targets an unoccupied space and the answer currently has 18 upvotes and nobody disagreed with this idea so it seems quite well agreed upon that summoning/conjuring spells do indeed target spaces.




                  And under the Range section it states:




                  The target of a spell must be within the spell's range...




                  Looking at find familiar we see that it has a range of 10 feet, so the target must be within 10 feet; the spell goes on to say:




                  You gain the service of a familiar... Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




                  The caster chooses which space it appears in and thus find familiar at least targets the space they choose, as this is the spell's point of origin.



                  We also see under the "Targeting Yourself" section that:




                  If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself...




                  find familiar does not target a creature of the caster's choice so this method will not let it target the caster.



                  And furthermore under the "Range" section we also see that:




                  Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you. These spells have a range of self.




                  find familiar does not have a range of self and so cannot target the caster using this method either.




                  This Q/A on what counts as a target for a spell finds that the definition is quite complicated and horribly undefined/ambiguous.

                  If we use the approach that anything affected by a spell is considered a target then find familiar potentially does target you because it affects you in some way; it grants you a familiar, which you control.



                  The comments in This Q/A however, show that adopting this idea that "anything affected is considered a target" has some issues because what counts as being affected is still just as undefined. "Do touch spells technically target the caster? (You are "affected" as you have to touch something)", "Does levitate target the caster (you can move the creature affected by the spell so is that considered to be "affecting" you?)"



                  There isn't a good way to use the "if something is affected it is a target" method. This is likely a result of 5e being written in "plain English" yet we attempt to apply lawer-like rules strictness to it (I am not saying that is a bad thing, just a thing that is done by many, including myself).

                  If you did use this interpretation, then find familiar could technically be considered to be targeting the caster as, to some degree, it is affecting them, but I would say this is more up your GM than anybody else.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 10 hours ago

























                  answered 10 hours ago









                  Medix2Medix2

                  3,0211 gold badge8 silver badges42 bronze badges




                  3,0211 gold badge8 silver badges42 bronze badges























                      5












                      $begingroup$

                      Not You



                      The target doesn't have to be a creature:




                      A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.




                      Find familiar doesn't target you at all. For instance no one would argue that [fireball][3] targets the finger of the caster despite reading:




                      A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range




                      We can all agree that it is the point in space that is the target. And [magic missile][4] isn't the caster despite beginning with the word "You". The target in this case is again, the people where the action happens:




                      You create three glowing darts of magical force.




                      Then What?



                      The spell find familiar reads similiar to magical missile and fireball in this regard. You do something, and something happens to or at a target. You have not changed, the world has by the addition of the new creature:




                      You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




                      Leaving either the summoned animal form of the familiar or the space it appears in as the target (or both). Both are where the action of the spell actually takes place.



                      Between the animal form is chosen, but it isn't in line of sight at the time of casting, so it likely isn't the form or spirit.



                      The space makes the most sense from a logical point of view. And the wording in that regard is similar to spells like fireball which has clearer targeting language.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$








                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        It doesn't change your argument about the caster's finger not being a target, but in addition to targeting a point in space, the text of Fireball also describes any affected creature as a target (as was pointed out to me recently). It's kind of confusing.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ryan Thompson
                        8 hours ago











                      • $begingroup$
                        This answer in it’s current form is wrong in that the fireball and other spells specifically mention how other creatures can be targeted.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        7 hours ago










                      • $begingroup$
                        Fireball “each creature in a 20 foot radius sphere must make a dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage...”
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        7 hours ago















                      5












                      $begingroup$

                      Not You



                      The target doesn't have to be a creature:




                      A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.




                      Find familiar doesn't target you at all. For instance no one would argue that [fireball][3] targets the finger of the caster despite reading:




                      A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range




                      We can all agree that it is the point in space that is the target. And [magic missile][4] isn't the caster despite beginning with the word "You". The target in this case is again, the people where the action happens:




                      You create three glowing darts of magical force.




                      Then What?



                      The spell find familiar reads similiar to magical missile and fireball in this regard. You do something, and something happens to or at a target. You have not changed, the world has by the addition of the new creature:




                      You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




                      Leaving either the summoned animal form of the familiar or the space it appears in as the target (or both). Both are where the action of the spell actually takes place.



                      Between the animal form is chosen, but it isn't in line of sight at the time of casting, so it likely isn't the form or spirit.



                      The space makes the most sense from a logical point of view. And the wording in that regard is similar to spells like fireball which has clearer targeting language.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$








                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        It doesn't change your argument about the caster's finger not being a target, but in addition to targeting a point in space, the text of Fireball also describes any affected creature as a target (as was pointed out to me recently). It's kind of confusing.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ryan Thompson
                        8 hours ago











                      • $begingroup$
                        This answer in it’s current form is wrong in that the fireball and other spells specifically mention how other creatures can be targeted.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        7 hours ago










                      • $begingroup$
                        Fireball “each creature in a 20 foot radius sphere must make a dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage...”
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        7 hours ago













                      5












                      5








                      5





                      $begingroup$

                      Not You



                      The target doesn't have to be a creature:




                      A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.




                      Find familiar doesn't target you at all. For instance no one would argue that [fireball][3] targets the finger of the caster despite reading:




                      A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range




                      We can all agree that it is the point in space that is the target. And [magic missile][4] isn't the caster despite beginning with the word "You". The target in this case is again, the people where the action happens:




                      You create three glowing darts of magical force.




                      Then What?



                      The spell find familiar reads similiar to magical missile and fireball in this regard. You do something, and something happens to or at a target. You have not changed, the world has by the addition of the new creature:




                      You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




                      Leaving either the summoned animal form of the familiar or the space it appears in as the target (or both). Both are where the action of the spell actually takes place.



                      Between the animal form is chosen, but it isn't in line of sight at the time of casting, so it likely isn't the form or spirit.



                      The space makes the most sense from a logical point of view. And the wording in that regard is similar to spells like fireball which has clearer targeting language.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      Not You



                      The target doesn't have to be a creature:




                      A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.




                      Find familiar doesn't target you at all. For instance no one would argue that [fireball][3] targets the finger of the caster despite reading:




                      A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range




                      We can all agree that it is the point in space that is the target. And [magic missile][4] isn't the caster despite beginning with the word "You". The target in this case is again, the people where the action happens:




                      You create three glowing darts of magical force.




                      Then What?



                      The spell find familiar reads similiar to magical missile and fireball in this regard. You do something, and something happens to or at a target. You have not changed, the world has by the addition of the new creature:




                      You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range...




                      Leaving either the summoned animal form of the familiar or the space it appears in as the target (or both). Both are where the action of the spell actually takes place.



                      Between the animal form is chosen, but it isn't in line of sight at the time of casting, so it likely isn't the form or spirit.



                      The space makes the most sense from a logical point of view. And the wording in that regard is similar to spells like fireball which has clearer targeting language.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 10 hours ago









                      J. A. StreichJ. A. Streich

                      27.5k2 gold badges80 silver badges135 bronze badges




                      27.5k2 gold badges80 silver badges135 bronze badges







                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        It doesn't change your argument about the caster's finger not being a target, but in addition to targeting a point in space, the text of Fireball also describes any affected creature as a target (as was pointed out to me recently). It's kind of confusing.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ryan Thompson
                        8 hours ago











                      • $begingroup$
                        This answer in it’s current form is wrong in that the fireball and other spells specifically mention how other creatures can be targeted.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        7 hours ago










                      • $begingroup$
                        Fireball “each creature in a 20 foot radius sphere must make a dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage...”
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        7 hours ago












                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        It doesn't change your argument about the caster's finger not being a target, but in addition to targeting a point in space, the text of Fireball also describes any affected creature as a target (as was pointed out to me recently). It's kind of confusing.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ryan Thompson
                        8 hours ago











                      • $begingroup$
                        This answer in it’s current form is wrong in that the fireball and other spells specifically mention how other creatures can be targeted.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        7 hours ago










                      • $begingroup$
                        Fireball “each creature in a 20 foot radius sphere must make a dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage...”
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        7 hours ago







                      1




                      1




                      $begingroup$
                      It doesn't change your argument about the caster's finger not being a target, but in addition to targeting a point in space, the text of Fireball also describes any affected creature as a target (as was pointed out to me recently). It's kind of confusing.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Ryan Thompson
                      8 hours ago





                      $begingroup$
                      It doesn't change your argument about the caster's finger not being a target, but in addition to targeting a point in space, the text of Fireball also describes any affected creature as a target (as was pointed out to me recently). It's kind of confusing.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Ryan Thompson
                      8 hours ago













                      $begingroup$
                      This answer in it’s current form is wrong in that the fireball and other spells specifically mention how other creatures can be targeted.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Amethyst Wizard
                      7 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      This answer in it’s current form is wrong in that the fireball and other spells specifically mention how other creatures can be targeted.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Amethyst Wizard
                      7 hours ago












                      $begingroup$
                      Fireball “each creature in a 20 foot radius sphere must make a dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage...”
                      $endgroup$
                      – Amethyst Wizard
                      7 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      Fireball “each creature in a 20 foot radius sphere must make a dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage...”
                      $endgroup$
                      – Amethyst Wizard
                      7 hours ago











                      4












                      $begingroup$

                      "Target" is a sort of nebulous concept in 5e, but per Jeremy Crawford's comments in the past, any creature affected by a spell is its target. It seems to me that the answer is either you and the new familiar are both targets, or nothing is. Does a spell necessarily have to have a target at all?



                      But maybe the better question is, why does it matter? Target is a sort of squishy concept, but what practical difference does it make?






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$












                      • $begingroup$
                        A few examples of when it matters: find steed, War Caster, glyph of warding, and Twinned Spell all can only occur based on various restrictions on who/what some specific spell actually targets
                        $endgroup$
                        – Medix2
                        10 hours ago







                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        @Medix2 To make it even more complicated, some of those abilities care about what the spell actually targets, while others care about what the spell is capable of targeting.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ryan Thompson
                        10 hours ago






                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        This is a decent answer, I upvoted it because of two logical points. It's reasonable to think if you are effected by a spell you could be the spells target. And the point, "does a spell have to have a target at all?" is hard to refute.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        5 hours ago















                      4












                      $begingroup$

                      "Target" is a sort of nebulous concept in 5e, but per Jeremy Crawford's comments in the past, any creature affected by a spell is its target. It seems to me that the answer is either you and the new familiar are both targets, or nothing is. Does a spell necessarily have to have a target at all?



                      But maybe the better question is, why does it matter? Target is a sort of squishy concept, but what practical difference does it make?






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$












                      • $begingroup$
                        A few examples of when it matters: find steed, War Caster, glyph of warding, and Twinned Spell all can only occur based on various restrictions on who/what some specific spell actually targets
                        $endgroup$
                        – Medix2
                        10 hours ago







                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        @Medix2 To make it even more complicated, some of those abilities care about what the spell actually targets, while others care about what the spell is capable of targeting.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ryan Thompson
                        10 hours ago






                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        This is a decent answer, I upvoted it because of two logical points. It's reasonable to think if you are effected by a spell you could be the spells target. And the point, "does a spell have to have a target at all?" is hard to refute.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        5 hours ago













                      4












                      4








                      4





                      $begingroup$

                      "Target" is a sort of nebulous concept in 5e, but per Jeremy Crawford's comments in the past, any creature affected by a spell is its target. It seems to me that the answer is either you and the new familiar are both targets, or nothing is. Does a spell necessarily have to have a target at all?



                      But maybe the better question is, why does it matter? Target is a sort of squishy concept, but what practical difference does it make?






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      "Target" is a sort of nebulous concept in 5e, but per Jeremy Crawford's comments in the past, any creature affected by a spell is its target. It seems to me that the answer is either you and the new familiar are both targets, or nothing is. Does a spell necessarily have to have a target at all?



                      But maybe the better question is, why does it matter? Target is a sort of squishy concept, but what practical difference does it make?







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 10 hours ago









                      Darth PseudonymDarth Pseudonym

                      19.4k3 gold badges52 silver badges100 bronze badges




                      19.4k3 gold badges52 silver badges100 bronze badges











                      • $begingroup$
                        A few examples of when it matters: find steed, War Caster, glyph of warding, and Twinned Spell all can only occur based on various restrictions on who/what some specific spell actually targets
                        $endgroup$
                        – Medix2
                        10 hours ago







                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        @Medix2 To make it even more complicated, some of those abilities care about what the spell actually targets, while others care about what the spell is capable of targeting.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ryan Thompson
                        10 hours ago






                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        This is a decent answer, I upvoted it because of two logical points. It's reasonable to think if you are effected by a spell you could be the spells target. And the point, "does a spell have to have a target at all?" is hard to refute.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        5 hours ago
















                      • $begingroup$
                        A few examples of when it matters: find steed, War Caster, glyph of warding, and Twinned Spell all can only occur based on various restrictions on who/what some specific spell actually targets
                        $endgroup$
                        – Medix2
                        10 hours ago







                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        @Medix2 To make it even more complicated, some of those abilities care about what the spell actually targets, while others care about what the spell is capable of targeting.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Ryan Thompson
                        10 hours ago






                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        This is a decent answer, I upvoted it because of two logical points. It's reasonable to think if you are effected by a spell you could be the spells target. And the point, "does a spell have to have a target at all?" is hard to refute.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Amethyst Wizard
                        5 hours ago















                      $begingroup$
                      A few examples of when it matters: find steed, War Caster, glyph of warding, and Twinned Spell all can only occur based on various restrictions on who/what some specific spell actually targets
                      $endgroup$
                      – Medix2
                      10 hours ago





                      $begingroup$
                      A few examples of when it matters: find steed, War Caster, glyph of warding, and Twinned Spell all can only occur based on various restrictions on who/what some specific spell actually targets
                      $endgroup$
                      – Medix2
                      10 hours ago





                      2




                      2




                      $begingroup$
                      @Medix2 To make it even more complicated, some of those abilities care about what the spell actually targets, while others care about what the spell is capable of targeting.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Ryan Thompson
                      10 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      @Medix2 To make it even more complicated, some of those abilities care about what the spell actually targets, while others care about what the spell is capable of targeting.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Ryan Thompson
                      10 hours ago




                      2




                      2




                      $begingroup$
                      This is a decent answer, I upvoted it because of two logical points. It's reasonable to think if you are effected by a spell you could be the spells target. And the point, "does a spell have to have a target at all?" is hard to refute.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Amethyst Wizard
                      5 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      This is a decent answer, I upvoted it because of two logical points. It's reasonable to think if you are effected by a spell you could be the spells target. And the point, "does a spell have to have a target at all?" is hard to refute.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Amethyst Wizard
                      5 hours ago











                      4












                      $begingroup$

                      Nothing, or maybe yourself, or maybe a space within 10', but probably nothing



                      Not all spells have targets. 'Target', for some reason, wasn't chosen as a term to be defined in the rules even though the rulebook likes to pretend it has some sort of unambiguous meaning. Because of this, we're supposed to pretend there's some 'normal' way of using the word and then do that. This is a serious problem for edge cases, but this isn't one of those so it's not really a problem. Find Familiar doesn't have any clear or obvious implicit targets besides maybe 'an unoccupied space within range', and that's a bit of a stretch, so it probably just doesn't target anything. 'Targetting' yourself is a weird and unnatural usage of the word if you couldn't target anything else-- 'targeting' invokes the idea of a choice being made among multople possible options-- so it's probably not that.



                      But wait! Some abilities literally do nothing if there aren't any spells that can only target the caster! That clearly isn't intended. Those spells are clearly using 'target' the way it's used in Magic: The Gathering instead of normal English. With that meaning of targeting pretty much every spell that has a range of 'self' and several that don't-- possibly including Find Familiar count. D&D 5e isn't MTG and doesn't have the kind of parsinimous action resolution system that the latter employs, so it's really not very simple to decide what things each spell 'targets', if any, in such a system.



                      Now, even if we use targetting that way, Find Familiar has a range of 10', not self, and while it's not unreasonable to rule, in a vacuum, that it targets the caster, it's certainly not necessary-- it makes just as much sense to rule the Find Familiar has no targets. Given that allowing Find Familiar to count as targeting the caster results in a huge jump in power for the spell, it seems unlikely most GMs would rule that way.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$

















                        4












                        $begingroup$

                        Nothing, or maybe yourself, or maybe a space within 10', but probably nothing



                        Not all spells have targets. 'Target', for some reason, wasn't chosen as a term to be defined in the rules even though the rulebook likes to pretend it has some sort of unambiguous meaning. Because of this, we're supposed to pretend there's some 'normal' way of using the word and then do that. This is a serious problem for edge cases, but this isn't one of those so it's not really a problem. Find Familiar doesn't have any clear or obvious implicit targets besides maybe 'an unoccupied space within range', and that's a bit of a stretch, so it probably just doesn't target anything. 'Targetting' yourself is a weird and unnatural usage of the word if you couldn't target anything else-- 'targeting' invokes the idea of a choice being made among multople possible options-- so it's probably not that.



                        But wait! Some abilities literally do nothing if there aren't any spells that can only target the caster! That clearly isn't intended. Those spells are clearly using 'target' the way it's used in Magic: The Gathering instead of normal English. With that meaning of targeting pretty much every spell that has a range of 'self' and several that don't-- possibly including Find Familiar count. D&D 5e isn't MTG and doesn't have the kind of parsinimous action resolution system that the latter employs, so it's really not very simple to decide what things each spell 'targets', if any, in such a system.



                        Now, even if we use targetting that way, Find Familiar has a range of 10', not self, and while it's not unreasonable to rule, in a vacuum, that it targets the caster, it's certainly not necessary-- it makes just as much sense to rule the Find Familiar has no targets. Given that allowing Find Familiar to count as targeting the caster results in a huge jump in power for the spell, it seems unlikely most GMs would rule that way.






                        share|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$















                          4












                          4








                          4





                          $begingroup$

                          Nothing, or maybe yourself, or maybe a space within 10', but probably nothing



                          Not all spells have targets. 'Target', for some reason, wasn't chosen as a term to be defined in the rules even though the rulebook likes to pretend it has some sort of unambiguous meaning. Because of this, we're supposed to pretend there's some 'normal' way of using the word and then do that. This is a serious problem for edge cases, but this isn't one of those so it's not really a problem. Find Familiar doesn't have any clear or obvious implicit targets besides maybe 'an unoccupied space within range', and that's a bit of a stretch, so it probably just doesn't target anything. 'Targetting' yourself is a weird and unnatural usage of the word if you couldn't target anything else-- 'targeting' invokes the idea of a choice being made among multople possible options-- so it's probably not that.



                          But wait! Some abilities literally do nothing if there aren't any spells that can only target the caster! That clearly isn't intended. Those spells are clearly using 'target' the way it's used in Magic: The Gathering instead of normal English. With that meaning of targeting pretty much every spell that has a range of 'self' and several that don't-- possibly including Find Familiar count. D&D 5e isn't MTG and doesn't have the kind of parsinimous action resolution system that the latter employs, so it's really not very simple to decide what things each spell 'targets', if any, in such a system.



                          Now, even if we use targetting that way, Find Familiar has a range of 10', not self, and while it's not unreasonable to rule, in a vacuum, that it targets the caster, it's certainly not necessary-- it makes just as much sense to rule the Find Familiar has no targets. Given that allowing Find Familiar to count as targeting the caster results in a huge jump in power for the spell, it seems unlikely most GMs would rule that way.






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          Nothing, or maybe yourself, or maybe a space within 10', but probably nothing



                          Not all spells have targets. 'Target', for some reason, wasn't chosen as a term to be defined in the rules even though the rulebook likes to pretend it has some sort of unambiguous meaning. Because of this, we're supposed to pretend there's some 'normal' way of using the word and then do that. This is a serious problem for edge cases, but this isn't one of those so it's not really a problem. Find Familiar doesn't have any clear or obvious implicit targets besides maybe 'an unoccupied space within range', and that's a bit of a stretch, so it probably just doesn't target anything. 'Targetting' yourself is a weird and unnatural usage of the word if you couldn't target anything else-- 'targeting' invokes the idea of a choice being made among multople possible options-- so it's probably not that.



                          But wait! Some abilities literally do nothing if there aren't any spells that can only target the caster! That clearly isn't intended. Those spells are clearly using 'target' the way it's used in Magic: The Gathering instead of normal English. With that meaning of targeting pretty much every spell that has a range of 'self' and several that don't-- possibly including Find Familiar count. D&D 5e isn't MTG and doesn't have the kind of parsinimous action resolution system that the latter employs, so it's really not very simple to decide what things each spell 'targets', if any, in such a system.



                          Now, even if we use targetting that way, Find Familiar has a range of 10', not self, and while it's not unreasonable to rule, in a vacuum, that it targets the caster, it's certainly not necessary-- it makes just as much sense to rule the Find Familiar has no targets. Given that allowing Find Familiar to count as targeting the caster results in a huge jump in power for the spell, it seems unlikely most GMs would rule that way.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 6 hours ago









                          the dark wandererthe dark wanderer

                          41k6 gold badges107 silver badges216 bronze badges




                          41k6 gold badges107 silver badges216 bronze badges





















                              -3












                              $begingroup$

                              The spell Find Familiar targets the caster.



                              In the targets section of the Players Handbook it states:




                              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
                              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




                              With the spell Find Familiar, it’s description clearly denotes that “you” are the target:




                              You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form
                              you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl,
                              poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or
                              weasel. (PHB, pg 240)




                              There are several key points that make for a convincing argument.



                              1. The spell effect can’t apply to any other creature but the caster, unlike other spells.

                              2. The spells description, specifically states: “You gain the service of a familiar.” And the only relevant part of the targeting rules is that “a spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.”

                              There is no more required for this interpretation to be correct, however for those unconvinced I will go on to explain why the other explanations are not sufficient.



                              The questioner asks if the spell can target the familiar. No the spell cannot target the familiar because the familiar doesn’t yet exist. But for sake of argument, lets pretend there is at all times an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature following you around waiting for you to cast the spell, the following rules would disqualify that creature from being a target.




                              1. The target of a spell has to be in the spells range. (PHB, pg 202)


                              2. A clear path to the target. To target something you must have a clear path to it, so it cant be behind total cover. (PHB, pg 204)




                              You can’t target an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature because the rules forbid it.



                              Next, a person may mistakenly believe the target for Find Familiar could be a point of origin. However, the rules state that targets with a point of origin must have an area of affect.




                              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
                              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




                              There is nothing in the spells description to indicate that the Find Familiar spell is an area of effect spell, no radius or diameter or shape is described in the spell to instruct that type of interpretation.






                              share|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$












                              • $begingroup$
                                This is actually a quite good argument and I ran into the area of effect / point of origin problem as well in my answer. I just don't think it's "clear" that it targets the caster (as the answers here show, defining what counts as a "target" is pretty much a mess). Though, if every spell has to have a target and find familiar can't target a point in space (point of origin) because it's not an area of effect then I would agree that the caster must be the target.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Medix2
                                2 hours ago
















                              -3












                              $begingroup$

                              The spell Find Familiar targets the caster.



                              In the targets section of the Players Handbook it states:




                              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
                              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




                              With the spell Find Familiar, it’s description clearly denotes that “you” are the target:




                              You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form
                              you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl,
                              poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or
                              weasel. (PHB, pg 240)




                              There are several key points that make for a convincing argument.



                              1. The spell effect can’t apply to any other creature but the caster, unlike other spells.

                              2. The spells description, specifically states: “You gain the service of a familiar.” And the only relevant part of the targeting rules is that “a spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.”

                              There is no more required for this interpretation to be correct, however for those unconvinced I will go on to explain why the other explanations are not sufficient.



                              The questioner asks if the spell can target the familiar. No the spell cannot target the familiar because the familiar doesn’t yet exist. But for sake of argument, lets pretend there is at all times an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature following you around waiting for you to cast the spell, the following rules would disqualify that creature from being a target.




                              1. The target of a spell has to be in the spells range. (PHB, pg 202)


                              2. A clear path to the target. To target something you must have a clear path to it, so it cant be behind total cover. (PHB, pg 204)




                              You can’t target an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature because the rules forbid it.



                              Next, a person may mistakenly believe the target for Find Familiar could be a point of origin. However, the rules state that targets with a point of origin must have an area of affect.




                              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
                              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




                              There is nothing in the spells description to indicate that the Find Familiar spell is an area of effect spell, no radius or diameter or shape is described in the spell to instruct that type of interpretation.






                              share|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$












                              • $begingroup$
                                This is actually a quite good argument and I ran into the area of effect / point of origin problem as well in my answer. I just don't think it's "clear" that it targets the caster (as the answers here show, defining what counts as a "target" is pretty much a mess). Though, if every spell has to have a target and find familiar can't target a point in space (point of origin) because it's not an area of effect then I would agree that the caster must be the target.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Medix2
                                2 hours ago














                              -3












                              -3








                              -3





                              $begingroup$

                              The spell Find Familiar targets the caster.



                              In the targets section of the Players Handbook it states:




                              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
                              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




                              With the spell Find Familiar, it’s description clearly denotes that “you” are the target:




                              You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form
                              you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl,
                              poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or
                              weasel. (PHB, pg 240)




                              There are several key points that make for a convincing argument.



                              1. The spell effect can’t apply to any other creature but the caster, unlike other spells.

                              2. The spells description, specifically states: “You gain the service of a familiar.” And the only relevant part of the targeting rules is that “a spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.”

                              There is no more required for this interpretation to be correct, however for those unconvinced I will go on to explain why the other explanations are not sufficient.



                              The questioner asks if the spell can target the familiar. No the spell cannot target the familiar because the familiar doesn’t yet exist. But for sake of argument, lets pretend there is at all times an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature following you around waiting for you to cast the spell, the following rules would disqualify that creature from being a target.




                              1. The target of a spell has to be in the spells range. (PHB, pg 202)


                              2. A clear path to the target. To target something you must have a clear path to it, so it cant be behind total cover. (PHB, pg 204)




                              You can’t target an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature because the rules forbid it.



                              Next, a person may mistakenly believe the target for Find Familiar could be a point of origin. However, the rules state that targets with a point of origin must have an area of affect.




                              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
                              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




                              There is nothing in the spells description to indicate that the Find Familiar spell is an area of effect spell, no radius or diameter or shape is described in the spell to instruct that type of interpretation.






                              share|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$



                              The spell Find Familiar targets the caster.



                              In the targets section of the Players Handbook it states:




                              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
                              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




                              With the spell Find Familiar, it’s description clearly denotes that “you” are the target:




                              You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form
                              you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl,
                              poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or
                              weasel. (PHB, pg 240)




                              There are several key points that make for a convincing argument.



                              1. The spell effect can’t apply to any other creature but the caster, unlike other spells.

                              2. The spells description, specifically states: “You gain the service of a familiar.” And the only relevant part of the targeting rules is that “a spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area effect.”

                              There is no more required for this interpretation to be correct, however for those unconvinced I will go on to explain why the other explanations are not sufficient.



                              The questioner asks if the spell can target the familiar. No the spell cannot target the familiar because the familiar doesn’t yet exist. But for sake of argument, lets pretend there is at all times an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature following you around waiting for you to cast the spell, the following rules would disqualify that creature from being a target.




                              1. The target of a spell has to be in the spells range. (PHB, pg 202)


                              2. A clear path to the target. To target something you must have a clear path to it, so it cant be behind total cover. (PHB, pg 204)




                              You can’t target an invisible celestial, fiend or fey creature because the rules forbid it.



                              Next, a person may mistakenly believe the target for Find Familiar could be a point of origin. However, the rules state that targets with a point of origin must have an area of affect.




                              A spells description tells you whether the spell targets creatures,
                              objects, or a point of origin for an area effect. (PHB, pg 204)




                              There is nothing in the spells description to indicate that the Find Familiar spell is an area of effect spell, no radius or diameter or shape is described in the spell to instruct that type of interpretation.







                              share|improve this answer














                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer








                              edited 5 hours ago

























                              answered 7 hours ago









                              Amethyst WizardAmethyst Wizard

                              4932 silver badges18 bronze badges




                              4932 silver badges18 bronze badges











                              • $begingroup$
                                This is actually a quite good argument and I ran into the area of effect / point of origin problem as well in my answer. I just don't think it's "clear" that it targets the caster (as the answers here show, defining what counts as a "target" is pretty much a mess). Though, if every spell has to have a target and find familiar can't target a point in space (point of origin) because it's not an area of effect then I would agree that the caster must be the target.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Medix2
                                2 hours ago

















                              • $begingroup$
                                This is actually a quite good argument and I ran into the area of effect / point of origin problem as well in my answer. I just don't think it's "clear" that it targets the caster (as the answers here show, defining what counts as a "target" is pretty much a mess). Though, if every spell has to have a target and find familiar can't target a point in space (point of origin) because it's not an area of effect then I would agree that the caster must be the target.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Medix2
                                2 hours ago
















                              $begingroup$
                              This is actually a quite good argument and I ran into the area of effect / point of origin problem as well in my answer. I just don't think it's "clear" that it targets the caster (as the answers here show, defining what counts as a "target" is pretty much a mess). Though, if every spell has to have a target and find familiar can't target a point in space (point of origin) because it's not an area of effect then I would agree that the caster must be the target.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Medix2
                              2 hours ago





                              $begingroup$
                              This is actually a quite good argument and I ran into the area of effect / point of origin problem as well in my answer. I just don't think it's "clear" that it targets the caster (as the answers here show, defining what counts as a "target" is pretty much a mess). Though, if every spell has to have a target and find familiar can't target a point in space (point of origin) because it's not an area of effect then I would agree that the caster must be the target.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Medix2
                              2 hours ago


















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