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What is it called when the tritone is added to a minor scale?
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What is it called when the tritone is added to a minor scale?
Phrygian dominant scale with a major seventhWhy is the Phrygian Dominant Scale thusly named?What is this scale?Chord construction using the minor scaleHow do you think of the natural minor scale (or any non-major scale), when you play it?What is the historic origin of the terms & textbook definitions of the natural minor, harmonic minor, & melodic minor scales?Is the melodic minor scale use as the basis of chord progressions in modern jazz?When did the aeolian mode change to the harmonic minor?Why is the darkest scale considered double harmonic major and not double harmonic minor?Using V and v chord when melody alternates between harmonic and natural minor
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While improvising today, I discovered that you can create some quite cool, melancholic sounds by adding the tritone to a harmonic minor scale. For A minor, the resulting scale would be
A B C D D# E F G# A
I guess, I'm not the first one to discover this, which got me wondering, whether there was some kind of a name for it.
The two uses that I found were to either play around the fifth (like E F E D# E), or to use it in conjunction with the raised seventh of the harmonic scale.
Analyzing the scale, it occurred to me that the D# is actually the major seventh of the dominant chord, which makes the second use quite logical (major third and major seventh of the dominant chord).
Are there any better insights into the use of the tritone with a minor scale? And is there a name for it?
theory scales
add a comment |
While improvising today, I discovered that you can create some quite cool, melancholic sounds by adding the tritone to a harmonic minor scale. For A minor, the resulting scale would be
A B C D D# E F G# A
I guess, I'm not the first one to discover this, which got me wondering, whether there was some kind of a name for it.
The two uses that I found were to either play around the fifth (like E F E D# E), or to use it in conjunction with the raised seventh of the harmonic scale.
Analyzing the scale, it occurred to me that the D# is actually the major seventh of the dominant chord, which makes the second use quite logical (major third and major seventh of the dominant chord).
Are there any better insights into the use of the tritone with a minor scale? And is there a name for it?
theory scales
You've just discovered the "blue note". It's basically a combination of harmonic minor and blues hexatonic minor.
– Pyromonk
8 hours ago
It is impossible to guess or reverse-engineer what you have played, through exchange of textual messages. Can you upload a recording somewhere? A whole world of different harmonic changes and songs can be done with the notes of the C major scale: C D E F G A B. Or the A minor harmonic scale A B C D E F G#. Adding a note or two does not make the world of possible musical things any smaller, it makes it even larger. :)
– piiperi
5 hours ago
1
@piiperi That's exactly why I asked: I felt like I've stumbled across the tip of an iceberg, and I felt curious, how other, more musical people than me, have named that iceberg, and what other aspects they have discovered about it. I didn't want to narrow the scope of the question to the specific spike of ice that I saw sticking out of the water. And, no, I didn't record anything. I just stashed the general idea away in my brain, in the hope of being able to find other good uses and variations of it in the near future.
– cmaster
5 hours ago
1
Well said, a tip of an iceberg! :) I suspect that you probably lack the necessary tools to see what the iceberg consists of - a huge variety of different harmonic turns that can be done with a set of notes as wide as what you listed. And the thing is - if you use the notes to play melodic lines, your imagination may accompany it with harmonic turns that use even notes outside the set of notes you listed. :) Even with the C major scale, depending on how you play it, your mind may imagine e.g. a D major chord, B major chord, E major or A major chord somewhere, even though they contain sharps.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
I'll make an answer with an example of what I mean.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
add a comment |
While improvising today, I discovered that you can create some quite cool, melancholic sounds by adding the tritone to a harmonic minor scale. For A minor, the resulting scale would be
A B C D D# E F G# A
I guess, I'm not the first one to discover this, which got me wondering, whether there was some kind of a name for it.
The two uses that I found were to either play around the fifth (like E F E D# E), or to use it in conjunction with the raised seventh of the harmonic scale.
Analyzing the scale, it occurred to me that the D# is actually the major seventh of the dominant chord, which makes the second use quite logical (major third and major seventh of the dominant chord).
Are there any better insights into the use of the tritone with a minor scale? And is there a name for it?
theory scales
While improvising today, I discovered that you can create some quite cool, melancholic sounds by adding the tritone to a harmonic minor scale. For A minor, the resulting scale would be
A B C D D# E F G# A
I guess, I'm not the first one to discover this, which got me wondering, whether there was some kind of a name for it.
The two uses that I found were to either play around the fifth (like E F E D# E), or to use it in conjunction with the raised seventh of the harmonic scale.
Analyzing the scale, it occurred to me that the D# is actually the major seventh of the dominant chord, which makes the second use quite logical (major third and major seventh of the dominant chord).
Are there any better insights into the use of the tritone with a minor scale? And is there a name for it?
theory scales
theory scales
asked 8 hours ago
cmastercmaster
1164 bronze badges
1164 bronze badges
You've just discovered the "blue note". It's basically a combination of harmonic minor and blues hexatonic minor.
– Pyromonk
8 hours ago
It is impossible to guess or reverse-engineer what you have played, through exchange of textual messages. Can you upload a recording somewhere? A whole world of different harmonic changes and songs can be done with the notes of the C major scale: C D E F G A B. Or the A minor harmonic scale A B C D E F G#. Adding a note or two does not make the world of possible musical things any smaller, it makes it even larger. :)
– piiperi
5 hours ago
1
@piiperi That's exactly why I asked: I felt like I've stumbled across the tip of an iceberg, and I felt curious, how other, more musical people than me, have named that iceberg, and what other aspects they have discovered about it. I didn't want to narrow the scope of the question to the specific spike of ice that I saw sticking out of the water. And, no, I didn't record anything. I just stashed the general idea away in my brain, in the hope of being able to find other good uses and variations of it in the near future.
– cmaster
5 hours ago
1
Well said, a tip of an iceberg! :) I suspect that you probably lack the necessary tools to see what the iceberg consists of - a huge variety of different harmonic turns that can be done with a set of notes as wide as what you listed. And the thing is - if you use the notes to play melodic lines, your imagination may accompany it with harmonic turns that use even notes outside the set of notes you listed. :) Even with the C major scale, depending on how you play it, your mind may imagine e.g. a D major chord, B major chord, E major or A major chord somewhere, even though they contain sharps.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
I'll make an answer with an example of what I mean.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
add a comment |
You've just discovered the "blue note". It's basically a combination of harmonic minor and blues hexatonic minor.
– Pyromonk
8 hours ago
It is impossible to guess or reverse-engineer what you have played, through exchange of textual messages. Can you upload a recording somewhere? A whole world of different harmonic changes and songs can be done with the notes of the C major scale: C D E F G A B. Or the A minor harmonic scale A B C D E F G#. Adding a note or two does not make the world of possible musical things any smaller, it makes it even larger. :)
– piiperi
5 hours ago
1
@piiperi That's exactly why I asked: I felt like I've stumbled across the tip of an iceberg, and I felt curious, how other, more musical people than me, have named that iceberg, and what other aspects they have discovered about it. I didn't want to narrow the scope of the question to the specific spike of ice that I saw sticking out of the water. And, no, I didn't record anything. I just stashed the general idea away in my brain, in the hope of being able to find other good uses and variations of it in the near future.
– cmaster
5 hours ago
1
Well said, a tip of an iceberg! :) I suspect that you probably lack the necessary tools to see what the iceberg consists of - a huge variety of different harmonic turns that can be done with a set of notes as wide as what you listed. And the thing is - if you use the notes to play melodic lines, your imagination may accompany it with harmonic turns that use even notes outside the set of notes you listed. :) Even with the C major scale, depending on how you play it, your mind may imagine e.g. a D major chord, B major chord, E major or A major chord somewhere, even though they contain sharps.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
I'll make an answer with an example of what I mean.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
You've just discovered the "blue note". It's basically a combination of harmonic minor and blues hexatonic minor.
– Pyromonk
8 hours ago
You've just discovered the "blue note". It's basically a combination of harmonic minor and blues hexatonic minor.
– Pyromonk
8 hours ago
It is impossible to guess or reverse-engineer what you have played, through exchange of textual messages. Can you upload a recording somewhere? A whole world of different harmonic changes and songs can be done with the notes of the C major scale: C D E F G A B. Or the A minor harmonic scale A B C D E F G#. Adding a note or two does not make the world of possible musical things any smaller, it makes it even larger. :)
– piiperi
5 hours ago
It is impossible to guess or reverse-engineer what you have played, through exchange of textual messages. Can you upload a recording somewhere? A whole world of different harmonic changes and songs can be done with the notes of the C major scale: C D E F G A B. Or the A minor harmonic scale A B C D E F G#. Adding a note or two does not make the world of possible musical things any smaller, it makes it even larger. :)
– piiperi
5 hours ago
1
1
@piiperi That's exactly why I asked: I felt like I've stumbled across the tip of an iceberg, and I felt curious, how other, more musical people than me, have named that iceberg, and what other aspects they have discovered about it. I didn't want to narrow the scope of the question to the specific spike of ice that I saw sticking out of the water. And, no, I didn't record anything. I just stashed the general idea away in my brain, in the hope of being able to find other good uses and variations of it in the near future.
– cmaster
5 hours ago
@piiperi That's exactly why I asked: I felt like I've stumbled across the tip of an iceberg, and I felt curious, how other, more musical people than me, have named that iceberg, and what other aspects they have discovered about it. I didn't want to narrow the scope of the question to the specific spike of ice that I saw sticking out of the water. And, no, I didn't record anything. I just stashed the general idea away in my brain, in the hope of being able to find other good uses and variations of it in the near future.
– cmaster
5 hours ago
1
1
Well said, a tip of an iceberg! :) I suspect that you probably lack the necessary tools to see what the iceberg consists of - a huge variety of different harmonic turns that can be done with a set of notes as wide as what you listed. And the thing is - if you use the notes to play melodic lines, your imagination may accompany it with harmonic turns that use even notes outside the set of notes you listed. :) Even with the C major scale, depending on how you play it, your mind may imagine e.g. a D major chord, B major chord, E major or A major chord somewhere, even though they contain sharps.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
Well said, a tip of an iceberg! :) I suspect that you probably lack the necessary tools to see what the iceberg consists of - a huge variety of different harmonic turns that can be done with a set of notes as wide as what you listed. And the thing is - if you use the notes to play melodic lines, your imagination may accompany it with harmonic turns that use even notes outside the set of notes you listed. :) Even with the C major scale, depending on how you play it, your mind may imagine e.g. a D major chord, B major chord, E major or A major chord somewhere, even though they contain sharps.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
I'll make an answer with an example of what I mean.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
I'll make an answer with an example of what I mean.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
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votes
...A B C D D# E F G# A
Just the list of tones isn't enough to describe in a meaningful way what is happening. It could have various musical meanings.
D#could be a chromatic passing or neighbor tone.D#could be the temporary leading tone ofE, harmonicallyV/v
A lot depends on the harmonic context. Even if you have playing only a single melodic line there is usually an implied harmonic context. The harmonic context will really be the thing that informs us about what it could be called.
Even this... E F E D# E ...isn't really enough to say.
D# looks like a chromatic neighbor tone, but whatever you played before it could imply something else.
...use of the tritone with a minor scale
That wording sort of implies a harmonic tritone. If you aren't playing A and D# simultaneously or outlining A to D# in some way, that wording might be a bit misleading. At least for me I would be expecting to hear the discordant sound of a tritone. Just E F E D# E alone won't necessarily produce that tritone sound.
The harmonic context was basically a constant alternation between the tonic minor (Am) and the dominant major (E). Just a simple improvisation :-)
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What would be a better term for the added note if I'm not using it as a harmonic tritone (i.e. not sounding together with A, but rather like an addition to the scale, using it next to either D, E, or G#)?
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What style is this: rock, classical, blues?G#andD#, likeG# B D#orG# E D# Eor something else?
– Michael Curtis
7 hours ago
+1 for tha last sentence alone - in A minor , D# isn't a tritone. And with D and E either side, it won't be. Maybe put an A in..?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Adding the D♯/E♭ into your playing isn't much to do with the harmonic (or any other) minor.
It's a flat 5 in blues, or a sharp 4 in jazz. Take your pick - especially if you're a guitarist..!
It's a note that's been used and used since the early 1900s, as so out of tune it sounds really good.Works just as well in major keys too.Since it's between the sub-dominant and the dominant notes in a diatonic situation, it doesn't really fall into either camp. Did the player mean to play a semitone higher, or a semitone lower? What the heck, it's sweet and sour!
add a comment |
You may have been doing many different things with the notes, depending on how you emphasized the notes in relation to a beat you heard in your mind. Maybe you just flirted with the blue note - maybe you played something "modal" ... but perhaps you were outlining chord changes with the notes you played. Maybe your playing lead yourself to imagine chord changes you weren't even outlining! With the notes listed you could arpeggiate e.g. an Am, Dm, F, E7 chord. Or a Dm6. Or maybe you just played an A note and imagined something like a Dm? It depends on many things. Extra things that can be done by adding a D# note are e.g. B7, which would be a "secondary dominant" for Am. Or an F7 which could be seen just as a bluesy IV chord for C, but perhaps a bit like a tritone substitute for B7.
I really can only guess what really happened with your improvisation, but here's an example of something that could be done with the notes. First there's just an improvised solo guitar line, trying to outline a melancholic progression. Then there's the same solo, but with piano and bass accompaniment.
Many chords of the accompaniment use notes outside the set you listed. But when it comes to melodies, what you play is not all you hear! :)
Like you said in your comment, you may have just found the tip of an iceberg. To develop a sensitivity for harmonic changes, and an understanding of what it is that you're painting with your improvised solos, I recommend learning to accompany songs with chords by ear. I, IV, V, etc. C - F - G - C. Am - Dm - B7 - E7 - Am, etc. In my honest opinion, knowing harmony so that you can recognize and improvise chord changes, and how the melody notes interact with the changes, is a key to musical playing that's missing from some young players these days. They want to "play scales" or modes, but don't have a hands-on understanding for functional harmony. New pop songs seem to use just pentatonic scales, which are ambivalent about harmonic turns. A pentatonic scale can be played almost anywhere without knowing what's happening with the chords, and on the other hand, a pentatonic melody can be quite freely accompanied with chords. But when you play these notes that you have in your set - B, F, D#, G# - not so! That's heavy stuff, it says something about possible harmonic changes. :)
Thanks a lot, that gives me some stuff to think about :-)
– cmaster
1 hour ago
@cmaster The solo was meant to exaggerate the harmony aspect, and the accompaniment was some sort of a realization of the harmony I was thinking about when playing the solo. Other people will get different ideas. But the point is, when you play the important notes like D# strongly on a strong beat, it can alter the harmonic feeling almost like if you had played a whole chord. Practice it: record your solo, listen to it and try to find suitable accompaniment chords that highlight the nature of the solo.
– piiperi
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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...A B C D D# E F G# A
Just the list of tones isn't enough to describe in a meaningful way what is happening. It could have various musical meanings.
D#could be a chromatic passing or neighbor tone.D#could be the temporary leading tone ofE, harmonicallyV/v
A lot depends on the harmonic context. Even if you have playing only a single melodic line there is usually an implied harmonic context. The harmonic context will really be the thing that informs us about what it could be called.
Even this... E F E D# E ...isn't really enough to say.
D# looks like a chromatic neighbor tone, but whatever you played before it could imply something else.
...use of the tritone with a minor scale
That wording sort of implies a harmonic tritone. If you aren't playing A and D# simultaneously or outlining A to D# in some way, that wording might be a bit misleading. At least for me I would be expecting to hear the discordant sound of a tritone. Just E F E D# E alone won't necessarily produce that tritone sound.
The harmonic context was basically a constant alternation between the tonic minor (Am) and the dominant major (E). Just a simple improvisation :-)
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What would be a better term for the added note if I'm not using it as a harmonic tritone (i.e. not sounding together with A, but rather like an addition to the scale, using it next to either D, E, or G#)?
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What style is this: rock, classical, blues?G#andD#, likeG# B D#orG# E D# Eor something else?
– Michael Curtis
7 hours ago
+1 for tha last sentence alone - in A minor , D# isn't a tritone. And with D and E either side, it won't be. Maybe put an A in..?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
...A B C D D# E F G# A
Just the list of tones isn't enough to describe in a meaningful way what is happening. It could have various musical meanings.
D#could be a chromatic passing or neighbor tone.D#could be the temporary leading tone ofE, harmonicallyV/v
A lot depends on the harmonic context. Even if you have playing only a single melodic line there is usually an implied harmonic context. The harmonic context will really be the thing that informs us about what it could be called.
Even this... E F E D# E ...isn't really enough to say.
D# looks like a chromatic neighbor tone, but whatever you played before it could imply something else.
...use of the tritone with a minor scale
That wording sort of implies a harmonic tritone. If you aren't playing A and D# simultaneously or outlining A to D# in some way, that wording might be a bit misleading. At least for me I would be expecting to hear the discordant sound of a tritone. Just E F E D# E alone won't necessarily produce that tritone sound.
The harmonic context was basically a constant alternation between the tonic minor (Am) and the dominant major (E). Just a simple improvisation :-)
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What would be a better term for the added note if I'm not using it as a harmonic tritone (i.e. not sounding together with A, but rather like an addition to the scale, using it next to either D, E, or G#)?
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What style is this: rock, classical, blues?G#andD#, likeG# B D#orG# E D# Eor something else?
– Michael Curtis
7 hours ago
+1 for tha last sentence alone - in A minor , D# isn't a tritone. And with D and E either side, it won't be. Maybe put an A in..?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
...A B C D D# E F G# A
Just the list of tones isn't enough to describe in a meaningful way what is happening. It could have various musical meanings.
D#could be a chromatic passing or neighbor tone.D#could be the temporary leading tone ofE, harmonicallyV/v
A lot depends on the harmonic context. Even if you have playing only a single melodic line there is usually an implied harmonic context. The harmonic context will really be the thing that informs us about what it could be called.
Even this... E F E D# E ...isn't really enough to say.
D# looks like a chromatic neighbor tone, but whatever you played before it could imply something else.
...use of the tritone with a minor scale
That wording sort of implies a harmonic tritone. If you aren't playing A and D# simultaneously or outlining A to D# in some way, that wording might be a bit misleading. At least for me I would be expecting to hear the discordant sound of a tritone. Just E F E D# E alone won't necessarily produce that tritone sound.
...A B C D D# E F G# A
Just the list of tones isn't enough to describe in a meaningful way what is happening. It could have various musical meanings.
D#could be a chromatic passing or neighbor tone.D#could be the temporary leading tone ofE, harmonicallyV/v
A lot depends on the harmonic context. Even if you have playing only a single melodic line there is usually an implied harmonic context. The harmonic context will really be the thing that informs us about what it could be called.
Even this... E F E D# E ...isn't really enough to say.
D# looks like a chromatic neighbor tone, but whatever you played before it could imply something else.
...use of the tritone with a minor scale
That wording sort of implies a harmonic tritone. If you aren't playing A and D# simultaneously or outlining A to D# in some way, that wording might be a bit misleading. At least for me I would be expecting to hear the discordant sound of a tritone. Just E F E D# E alone won't necessarily produce that tritone sound.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Michael CurtisMichael Curtis
15.8k11 silver badges52 bronze badges
15.8k11 silver badges52 bronze badges
The harmonic context was basically a constant alternation between the tonic minor (Am) and the dominant major (E). Just a simple improvisation :-)
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What would be a better term for the added note if I'm not using it as a harmonic tritone (i.e. not sounding together with A, but rather like an addition to the scale, using it next to either D, E, or G#)?
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What style is this: rock, classical, blues?G#andD#, likeG# B D#orG# E D# Eor something else?
– Michael Curtis
7 hours ago
+1 for tha last sentence alone - in A minor , D# isn't a tritone. And with D and E either side, it won't be. Maybe put an A in..?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
The harmonic context was basically a constant alternation between the tonic minor (Am) and the dominant major (E). Just a simple improvisation :-)
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What would be a better term for the added note if I'm not using it as a harmonic tritone (i.e. not sounding together with A, but rather like an addition to the scale, using it next to either D, E, or G#)?
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What style is this: rock, classical, blues?G#andD#, likeG# B D#orG# E D# Eor something else?
– Michael Curtis
7 hours ago
+1 for tha last sentence alone - in A minor , D# isn't a tritone. And with D and E either side, it won't be. Maybe put an A in..?
– Tim
6 hours ago
The harmonic context was basically a constant alternation between the tonic minor (Am) and the dominant major (E). Just a simple improvisation :-)
– cmaster
7 hours ago
The harmonic context was basically a constant alternation between the tonic minor (Am) and the dominant major (E). Just a simple improvisation :-)
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What would be a better term for the added note if I'm not using it as a harmonic tritone (i.e. not sounding together with A, but rather like an addition to the scale, using it next to either D, E, or G#)?
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What would be a better term for the added note if I'm not using it as a harmonic tritone (i.e. not sounding together with A, but rather like an addition to the scale, using it next to either D, E, or G#)?
– cmaster
7 hours ago
What style is this: rock, classical, blues?
G# and D#, like G# B D# or G# E D# E or something else?– Michael Curtis
7 hours ago
What style is this: rock, classical, blues?
G# and D#, like G# B D# or G# E D# E or something else?– Michael Curtis
7 hours ago
+1 for tha last sentence alone - in A minor , D# isn't a tritone. And with D and E either side, it won't be. Maybe put an A in..?
– Tim
6 hours ago
+1 for tha last sentence alone - in A minor , D# isn't a tritone. And with D and E either side, it won't be. Maybe put an A in..?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Adding the D♯/E♭ into your playing isn't much to do with the harmonic (or any other) minor.
It's a flat 5 in blues, or a sharp 4 in jazz. Take your pick - especially if you're a guitarist..!
It's a note that's been used and used since the early 1900s, as so out of tune it sounds really good.Works just as well in major keys too.Since it's between the sub-dominant and the dominant notes in a diatonic situation, it doesn't really fall into either camp. Did the player mean to play a semitone higher, or a semitone lower? What the heck, it's sweet and sour!
add a comment |
Adding the D♯/E♭ into your playing isn't much to do with the harmonic (or any other) minor.
It's a flat 5 in blues, or a sharp 4 in jazz. Take your pick - especially if you're a guitarist..!
It's a note that's been used and used since the early 1900s, as so out of tune it sounds really good.Works just as well in major keys too.Since it's between the sub-dominant and the dominant notes in a diatonic situation, it doesn't really fall into either camp. Did the player mean to play a semitone higher, or a semitone lower? What the heck, it's sweet and sour!
add a comment |
Adding the D♯/E♭ into your playing isn't much to do with the harmonic (or any other) minor.
It's a flat 5 in blues, or a sharp 4 in jazz. Take your pick - especially if you're a guitarist..!
It's a note that's been used and used since the early 1900s, as so out of tune it sounds really good.Works just as well in major keys too.Since it's between the sub-dominant and the dominant notes in a diatonic situation, it doesn't really fall into either camp. Did the player mean to play a semitone higher, or a semitone lower? What the heck, it's sweet and sour!
Adding the D♯/E♭ into your playing isn't much to do with the harmonic (or any other) minor.
It's a flat 5 in blues, or a sharp 4 in jazz. Take your pick - especially if you're a guitarist..!
It's a note that's been used and used since the early 1900s, as so out of tune it sounds really good.Works just as well in major keys too.Since it's between the sub-dominant and the dominant notes in a diatonic situation, it doesn't really fall into either camp. Did the player mean to play a semitone higher, or a semitone lower? What the heck, it's sweet and sour!
answered 8 hours ago
TimTim
109k11 gold badges107 silver badges279 bronze badges
109k11 gold badges107 silver badges279 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
You may have been doing many different things with the notes, depending on how you emphasized the notes in relation to a beat you heard in your mind. Maybe you just flirted with the blue note - maybe you played something "modal" ... but perhaps you were outlining chord changes with the notes you played. Maybe your playing lead yourself to imagine chord changes you weren't even outlining! With the notes listed you could arpeggiate e.g. an Am, Dm, F, E7 chord. Or a Dm6. Or maybe you just played an A note and imagined something like a Dm? It depends on many things. Extra things that can be done by adding a D# note are e.g. B7, which would be a "secondary dominant" for Am. Or an F7 which could be seen just as a bluesy IV chord for C, but perhaps a bit like a tritone substitute for B7.
I really can only guess what really happened with your improvisation, but here's an example of something that could be done with the notes. First there's just an improvised solo guitar line, trying to outline a melancholic progression. Then there's the same solo, but with piano and bass accompaniment.
Many chords of the accompaniment use notes outside the set you listed. But when it comes to melodies, what you play is not all you hear! :)
Like you said in your comment, you may have just found the tip of an iceberg. To develop a sensitivity for harmonic changes, and an understanding of what it is that you're painting with your improvised solos, I recommend learning to accompany songs with chords by ear. I, IV, V, etc. C - F - G - C. Am - Dm - B7 - E7 - Am, etc. In my honest opinion, knowing harmony so that you can recognize and improvise chord changes, and how the melody notes interact with the changes, is a key to musical playing that's missing from some young players these days. They want to "play scales" or modes, but don't have a hands-on understanding for functional harmony. New pop songs seem to use just pentatonic scales, which are ambivalent about harmonic turns. A pentatonic scale can be played almost anywhere without knowing what's happening with the chords, and on the other hand, a pentatonic melody can be quite freely accompanied with chords. But when you play these notes that you have in your set - B, F, D#, G# - not so! That's heavy stuff, it says something about possible harmonic changes. :)
Thanks a lot, that gives me some stuff to think about :-)
– cmaster
1 hour ago
@cmaster The solo was meant to exaggerate the harmony aspect, and the accompaniment was some sort of a realization of the harmony I was thinking about when playing the solo. Other people will get different ideas. But the point is, when you play the important notes like D# strongly on a strong beat, it can alter the harmonic feeling almost like if you had played a whole chord. Practice it: record your solo, listen to it and try to find suitable accompaniment chords that highlight the nature of the solo.
– piiperi
1 hour ago
add a comment |
You may have been doing many different things with the notes, depending on how you emphasized the notes in relation to a beat you heard in your mind. Maybe you just flirted with the blue note - maybe you played something "modal" ... but perhaps you were outlining chord changes with the notes you played. Maybe your playing lead yourself to imagine chord changes you weren't even outlining! With the notes listed you could arpeggiate e.g. an Am, Dm, F, E7 chord. Or a Dm6. Or maybe you just played an A note and imagined something like a Dm? It depends on many things. Extra things that can be done by adding a D# note are e.g. B7, which would be a "secondary dominant" for Am. Or an F7 which could be seen just as a bluesy IV chord for C, but perhaps a bit like a tritone substitute for B7.
I really can only guess what really happened with your improvisation, but here's an example of something that could be done with the notes. First there's just an improvised solo guitar line, trying to outline a melancholic progression. Then there's the same solo, but with piano and bass accompaniment.
Many chords of the accompaniment use notes outside the set you listed. But when it comes to melodies, what you play is not all you hear! :)
Like you said in your comment, you may have just found the tip of an iceberg. To develop a sensitivity for harmonic changes, and an understanding of what it is that you're painting with your improvised solos, I recommend learning to accompany songs with chords by ear. I, IV, V, etc. C - F - G - C. Am - Dm - B7 - E7 - Am, etc. In my honest opinion, knowing harmony so that you can recognize and improvise chord changes, and how the melody notes interact with the changes, is a key to musical playing that's missing from some young players these days. They want to "play scales" or modes, but don't have a hands-on understanding for functional harmony. New pop songs seem to use just pentatonic scales, which are ambivalent about harmonic turns. A pentatonic scale can be played almost anywhere without knowing what's happening with the chords, and on the other hand, a pentatonic melody can be quite freely accompanied with chords. But when you play these notes that you have in your set - B, F, D#, G# - not so! That's heavy stuff, it says something about possible harmonic changes. :)
Thanks a lot, that gives me some stuff to think about :-)
– cmaster
1 hour ago
@cmaster The solo was meant to exaggerate the harmony aspect, and the accompaniment was some sort of a realization of the harmony I was thinking about when playing the solo. Other people will get different ideas. But the point is, when you play the important notes like D# strongly on a strong beat, it can alter the harmonic feeling almost like if you had played a whole chord. Practice it: record your solo, listen to it and try to find suitable accompaniment chords that highlight the nature of the solo.
– piiperi
1 hour ago
add a comment |
You may have been doing many different things with the notes, depending on how you emphasized the notes in relation to a beat you heard in your mind. Maybe you just flirted with the blue note - maybe you played something "modal" ... but perhaps you were outlining chord changes with the notes you played. Maybe your playing lead yourself to imagine chord changes you weren't even outlining! With the notes listed you could arpeggiate e.g. an Am, Dm, F, E7 chord. Or a Dm6. Or maybe you just played an A note and imagined something like a Dm? It depends on many things. Extra things that can be done by adding a D# note are e.g. B7, which would be a "secondary dominant" for Am. Or an F7 which could be seen just as a bluesy IV chord for C, but perhaps a bit like a tritone substitute for B7.
I really can only guess what really happened with your improvisation, but here's an example of something that could be done with the notes. First there's just an improvised solo guitar line, trying to outline a melancholic progression. Then there's the same solo, but with piano and bass accompaniment.
Many chords of the accompaniment use notes outside the set you listed. But when it comes to melodies, what you play is not all you hear! :)
Like you said in your comment, you may have just found the tip of an iceberg. To develop a sensitivity for harmonic changes, and an understanding of what it is that you're painting with your improvised solos, I recommend learning to accompany songs with chords by ear. I, IV, V, etc. C - F - G - C. Am - Dm - B7 - E7 - Am, etc. In my honest opinion, knowing harmony so that you can recognize and improvise chord changes, and how the melody notes interact with the changes, is a key to musical playing that's missing from some young players these days. They want to "play scales" or modes, but don't have a hands-on understanding for functional harmony. New pop songs seem to use just pentatonic scales, which are ambivalent about harmonic turns. A pentatonic scale can be played almost anywhere without knowing what's happening with the chords, and on the other hand, a pentatonic melody can be quite freely accompanied with chords. But when you play these notes that you have in your set - B, F, D#, G# - not so! That's heavy stuff, it says something about possible harmonic changes. :)
You may have been doing many different things with the notes, depending on how you emphasized the notes in relation to a beat you heard in your mind. Maybe you just flirted with the blue note - maybe you played something "modal" ... but perhaps you were outlining chord changes with the notes you played. Maybe your playing lead yourself to imagine chord changes you weren't even outlining! With the notes listed you could arpeggiate e.g. an Am, Dm, F, E7 chord. Or a Dm6. Or maybe you just played an A note and imagined something like a Dm? It depends on many things. Extra things that can be done by adding a D# note are e.g. B7, which would be a "secondary dominant" for Am. Or an F7 which could be seen just as a bluesy IV chord for C, but perhaps a bit like a tritone substitute for B7.
I really can only guess what really happened with your improvisation, but here's an example of something that could be done with the notes. First there's just an improvised solo guitar line, trying to outline a melancholic progression. Then there's the same solo, but with piano and bass accompaniment.
Many chords of the accompaniment use notes outside the set you listed. But when it comes to melodies, what you play is not all you hear! :)
Like you said in your comment, you may have just found the tip of an iceberg. To develop a sensitivity for harmonic changes, and an understanding of what it is that you're painting with your improvised solos, I recommend learning to accompany songs with chords by ear. I, IV, V, etc. C - F - G - C. Am - Dm - B7 - E7 - Am, etc. In my honest opinion, knowing harmony so that you can recognize and improvise chord changes, and how the melody notes interact with the changes, is a key to musical playing that's missing from some young players these days. They want to "play scales" or modes, but don't have a hands-on understanding for functional harmony. New pop songs seem to use just pentatonic scales, which are ambivalent about harmonic turns. A pentatonic scale can be played almost anywhere without knowing what's happening with the chords, and on the other hand, a pentatonic melody can be quite freely accompanied with chords. But when you play these notes that you have in your set - B, F, D#, G# - not so! That's heavy stuff, it says something about possible harmonic changes. :)
edited 3 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
piiperipiiperi
3,8325 silver badges14 bronze badges
3,8325 silver badges14 bronze badges
Thanks a lot, that gives me some stuff to think about :-)
– cmaster
1 hour ago
@cmaster The solo was meant to exaggerate the harmony aspect, and the accompaniment was some sort of a realization of the harmony I was thinking about when playing the solo. Other people will get different ideas. But the point is, when you play the important notes like D# strongly on a strong beat, it can alter the harmonic feeling almost like if you had played a whole chord. Practice it: record your solo, listen to it and try to find suitable accompaniment chords that highlight the nature of the solo.
– piiperi
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Thanks a lot, that gives me some stuff to think about :-)
– cmaster
1 hour ago
@cmaster The solo was meant to exaggerate the harmony aspect, and the accompaniment was some sort of a realization of the harmony I was thinking about when playing the solo. Other people will get different ideas. But the point is, when you play the important notes like D# strongly on a strong beat, it can alter the harmonic feeling almost like if you had played a whole chord. Practice it: record your solo, listen to it and try to find suitable accompaniment chords that highlight the nature of the solo.
– piiperi
1 hour ago
Thanks a lot, that gives me some stuff to think about :-)
– cmaster
1 hour ago
Thanks a lot, that gives me some stuff to think about :-)
– cmaster
1 hour ago
@cmaster The solo was meant to exaggerate the harmony aspect, and the accompaniment was some sort of a realization of the harmony I was thinking about when playing the solo. Other people will get different ideas. But the point is, when you play the important notes like D# strongly on a strong beat, it can alter the harmonic feeling almost like if you had played a whole chord. Practice it: record your solo, listen to it and try to find suitable accompaniment chords that highlight the nature of the solo.
– piiperi
1 hour ago
@cmaster The solo was meant to exaggerate the harmony aspect, and the accompaniment was some sort of a realization of the harmony I was thinking about when playing the solo. Other people will get different ideas. But the point is, when you play the important notes like D# strongly on a strong beat, it can alter the harmonic feeling almost like if you had played a whole chord. Practice it: record your solo, listen to it and try to find suitable accompaniment chords that highlight the nature of the solo.
– piiperi
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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You've just discovered the "blue note". It's basically a combination of harmonic minor and blues hexatonic minor.
– Pyromonk
8 hours ago
It is impossible to guess or reverse-engineer what you have played, through exchange of textual messages. Can you upload a recording somewhere? A whole world of different harmonic changes and songs can be done with the notes of the C major scale: C D E F G A B. Or the A minor harmonic scale A B C D E F G#. Adding a note or two does not make the world of possible musical things any smaller, it makes it even larger. :)
– piiperi
5 hours ago
1
@piiperi That's exactly why I asked: I felt like I've stumbled across the tip of an iceberg, and I felt curious, how other, more musical people than me, have named that iceberg, and what other aspects they have discovered about it. I didn't want to narrow the scope of the question to the specific spike of ice that I saw sticking out of the water. And, no, I didn't record anything. I just stashed the general idea away in my brain, in the hope of being able to find other good uses and variations of it in the near future.
– cmaster
5 hours ago
1
Well said, a tip of an iceberg! :) I suspect that you probably lack the necessary tools to see what the iceberg consists of - a huge variety of different harmonic turns that can be done with a set of notes as wide as what you listed. And the thing is - if you use the notes to play melodic lines, your imagination may accompany it with harmonic turns that use even notes outside the set of notes you listed. :) Even with the C major scale, depending on how you play it, your mind may imagine e.g. a D major chord, B major chord, E major or A major chord somewhere, even though they contain sharps.
– piiperi
4 hours ago
I'll make an answer with an example of what I mean.
– piiperi
4 hours ago