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Does 5e have an equivalent of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
Does 3.5e have an equivalent of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?Does 5th edition have the equivalent of Taking 20?Does 3.5e have an equivalent of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?Is there a Pathfinder equivalent to the Ring of Arming?Is there a 5e equivalent of the mounted lancers in 3.5?Does a projected image have a magical aura?What is the 5e wizard equivalent of the Still Spell and Silent Spell feats from 3.5e?Why does Mind Blank stop the Feeblemind spell?Does Feeblemind prevent items that raise intelligence from functioning?What happens when one Great Old One warlock with the Thought Shield feature does psychic damage to another one?Can the Paper Bird magic item from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist be opened by the Dispel Magic spell?
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$begingroup$
Relating to Does 3.5e have an equivalent of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
Are there any legitimate 5e spells/items/mechanics that reproduce the effect of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
dnd-5e spells magic-items
edited 4 hours ago
NautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
StuperUserStuperUser
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Relating to Does 3.5e have an equivalent of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
Are there any legitimate 5e spells/items/mechanics that reproduce the effect of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
dnd-5e spells magic-items
edited 4 hours ago
NautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
StuperUserStuperUser
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@StuperUser is there any particular reason why a DM can't just make up such an item?
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
"legitimate 5e spells/items" is not a strict criterion, many campaigns (including AL ones) have their own magic items and some introduce new spells as well
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@enkryptor because I am the DM, and I did and it played in a fun and productive way, but I'm asking for balance reasons. It could easily break RP encounters if abused by cheeky little munchkins. If it cost 1000pp for materials or is a 9th level spell, that's different to it being a reskin of a 1st level spell with 10gp worth of components.
$endgroup$
– StuperUser
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
"I'm asking for balance reasons" — you should say this in the question. Like, "If I introduce such an item, what would be its rarity and cost" @StuperUser
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@enkryptor "published spells/items" a perfectly valid criterion, which I think is what is meant here...
$endgroup$
– Carcer
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Relating to Does 3.5e have an equivalent of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
Are there any legitimate 5e spells/items/mechanics that reproduce the effect of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
dnd-5e spells magic-items
edited 4 hours ago
NautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
StuperUserStuperUser
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Relating to Does 3.5e have an equivalent of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
Are there any legitimate 5e spells/items/mechanics that reproduce the effect of the Psychic Paper from Doctor Who?
dnd-5e spells magic-items
dnd-5e spells magic-items
edited 4 hours ago
NautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
StuperUserStuperUser
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
edited 4 hours ago
NautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
StuperUserStuperUser
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
edited 4 hours ago
NautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
edited 4 hours ago
NautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
edited 4 hours ago
NautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
StuperUserStuperUser
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
StuperUserStuperUser
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
StuperUserStuperUser
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
3,1422 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
@StuperUser is there any particular reason why a DM can't just make up such an item?
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
"legitimate 5e spells/items" is not a strict criterion, many campaigns (including AL ones) have their own magic items and some introduce new spells as well
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@enkryptor because I am the DM, and I did and it played in a fun and productive way, but I'm asking for balance reasons. It could easily break RP encounters if abused by cheeky little munchkins. If it cost 1000pp for materials or is a 9th level spell, that's different to it being a reskin of a 1st level spell with 10gp worth of components.
$endgroup$
– StuperUser
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
"I'm asking for balance reasons" — you should say this in the question. Like, "If I introduce such an item, what would be its rarity and cost" @StuperUser
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@enkryptor "published spells/items" a perfectly valid criterion, which I think is what is meant here...
$endgroup$
– Carcer
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
@StuperUser is there any particular reason why a DM can't just make up such an item?
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
"legitimate 5e spells/items" is not a strict criterion, many campaigns (including AL ones) have their own magic items and some introduce new spells as well
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@enkryptor because I am the DM, and I did and it played in a fun and productive way, but I'm asking for balance reasons. It could easily break RP encounters if abused by cheeky little munchkins. If it cost 1000pp for materials or is a 9th level spell, that's different to it being a reskin of a 1st level spell with 10gp worth of components.
$endgroup$
– StuperUser
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
"I'm asking for balance reasons" — you should say this in the question. Like, "If I introduce such an item, what would be its rarity and cost" @StuperUser
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@enkryptor "published spells/items" a perfectly valid criterion, which I think is what is meant here...
$endgroup$
– Carcer
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@StuperUser is there any particular reason why a DM can't just make up such an item?
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@StuperUser is there any particular reason why a DM can't just make up such an item?
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
"legitimate 5e spells/items" is not a strict criterion, many campaigns (including AL ones) have their own magic items and some introduce new spells as well
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
"legitimate 5e spells/items" is not a strict criterion, many campaigns (including AL ones) have their own magic items and some introduce new spells as well
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@enkryptor because I am the DM, and I did and it played in a fun and productive way, but I'm asking for balance reasons. It could easily break RP encounters if abused by cheeky little munchkins. If it cost 1000pp for materials or is a 9th level spell, that's different to it being a reskin of a 1st level spell with 10gp worth of components.
$endgroup$
– StuperUser
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@enkryptor because I am the DM, and I did and it played in a fun and productive way, but I'm asking for balance reasons. It could easily break RP encounters if abused by cheeky little munchkins. If it cost 1000pp for materials or is a 9th level spell, that's different to it being a reskin of a 1st level spell with 10gp worth of components.
$endgroup$
– StuperUser
6 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
"I'm asking for balance reasons" — you should say this in the question. Like, "If I introduce such an item, what would be its rarity and cost" @StuperUser
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
"I'm asking for balance reasons" — you should say this in the question. Like, "If I introduce such an item, what would be its rarity and cost" @StuperUser
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
@enkryptor "published spells/items" a perfectly valid criterion, which I think is what is meant here...
$endgroup$
– Carcer
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@enkryptor "published spells/items" a perfectly valid criterion, which I think is what is meant here...
$endgroup$
– Carcer
6 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
A 6th-level Illusion Wizard with Illusory Script, Detect Thoughts, and Forgery Kit proficiency
Illusion Wizards get access to the following feature at 6th level:
Malleable Illusions. Starting at 6th level, when you cast an illusion spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can use your action to change the nature of that illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion), provided that you can see the illusion.
Combined with Illusory Script, this feature can be used to, as just a single action (and without any spell components that would make that action conspicuous), change the text on a Illusory-Script-ed piece of paper they can see.
So, as this Wizard, you can:
- Cast Illusory Script on a piece of paper. It doesn't matter what the script says. This is your "psychic paper".
- Cast Detect Thoughts out of sight of the gatekeeper/whoever you're trying to fool.
- Walk up to them demanding entrance. Use Detect Thoughts to guide your claims about who you are.
- When they ask for proof of your authority, get out your "psychic paper", unfolding it facing you. Use their surface thoughts about what they would expect to see on a document which actually proved your claims to guide your Malleable-Illusion changes to what the script says.
- Show your "psychic paper" to the gatekeeper. It says whatever they expected it would if it were legitimate.
The Forgery Kit proficiency is just bonus - as a DM I would rule this trick more likely to work if the wizard was also a skilled forger, as the result of their on-the-fly illusion change could then be even more authentic.
answered 7 hours ago
VigilVigil
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Looking deeper into illusory script, it says " writing appears normal, written in your hand,". Most official documents aren't written in your own hand :)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@NautArch But (at least in the fantasy-medieval settings that comprise much of 5e), they are written in someone's hand - and how is the gatekeeper to know that it's yours? Your point may turn Forger's Kit proficiency from a bonus into a requirement - then "your own hand" can effectively be "any hand you can forge".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
There's also the issue that detect thoughts may not (and probably won't) give you what you're looking for unless you do a deeper probe. I imagine surface thoughts of a standard guard aren't "Gee, I wonder if this is Capt X of the Garrison" and more "who the heck is this guy?"
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And what happens if you have to show the paper to someone else that you didn't plan on when you cast it?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Blank Paper and suggestion
Ultimately, the Doctor is simply convincing someone that the paper says something that makes sense to the viewer.
This can be done with the spell suggestion:
You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. Creatures that can't be charmed are immune to this effect. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.
Is this a Course of Action?
The potential problem here is in how to interpret "course of action". Usually that implies that the suggestion is making the target "do" something. Whether or not "You read this paper to show that I'm [X]" is considered a 'course of activity' will be up to a DM to determine, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a good reason why it wouldn't work.
Is the Course of Action Reasonable?
AkA: These aren't the droids This is the paper that you're looking for
Suggestion still has the requirement that the course of action is reasonable. That's always the tricky part with this spell and can very much depend on DM decision.
But, one way that seems passable (to me as a DM), would be to suggest:
The paper you see provides credentials that will allow me past. You see this and allow me past.
At this point, you've made the potentially reasonable suggestion that they see exactly what they expect to see from someone they'd allow past. And then would do so because their narrative of why they'd allow you to pass has been met.
Basically, it's reasonable that they'd have visitors they allow past. They know who those visitors are. You are planting the suggestion that you are one of those visitors.
Difference from Psychic Paper
The big difference here is that you do need to 'prompt' the target as to how to read the paper. I think it still works from a Doctor Who lore perspective for suggestion to cover this, but it is a little bit clunkier.
answered 7 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
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add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
A 6th-level Illusion Wizard with Illusory Script, Detect Thoughts, and Forgery Kit proficiency
Illusion Wizards get access to the following feature at 6th level:
Malleable Illusions. Starting at 6th level, when you cast an illusion spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can use your action to change the nature of that illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion), provided that you can see the illusion.
Combined with Illusory Script, this feature can be used to, as just a single action (and without any spell components that would make that action conspicuous), change the text on a Illusory-Script-ed piece of paper they can see.
So, as this Wizard, you can:
- Cast Illusory Script on a piece of paper. It doesn't matter what the script says. This is your "psychic paper".
- Cast Detect Thoughts out of sight of the gatekeeper/whoever you're trying to fool.
- Walk up to them demanding entrance. Use Detect Thoughts to guide your claims about who you are.
- When they ask for proof of your authority, get out your "psychic paper", unfolding it facing you. Use their surface thoughts about what they would expect to see on a document which actually proved your claims to guide your Malleable-Illusion changes to what the script says.
- Show your "psychic paper" to the gatekeeper. It says whatever they expected it would if it were legitimate.
The Forgery Kit proficiency is just bonus - as a DM I would rule this trick more likely to work if the wizard was also a skilled forger, as the result of their on-the-fly illusion change could then be even more authentic.
answered 7 hours ago
VigilVigil
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Looking deeper into illusory script, it says " writing appears normal, written in your hand,". Most official documents aren't written in your own hand :)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@NautArch But (at least in the fantasy-medieval settings that comprise much of 5e), they are written in someone's hand - and how is the gatekeeper to know that it's yours? Your point may turn Forger's Kit proficiency from a bonus into a requirement - then "your own hand" can effectively be "any hand you can forge".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
There's also the issue that detect thoughts may not (and probably won't) give you what you're looking for unless you do a deeper probe. I imagine surface thoughts of a standard guard aren't "Gee, I wonder if this is Capt X of the Garrison" and more "who the heck is this guy?"
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And what happens if you have to show the paper to someone else that you didn't plan on when you cast it?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A 6th-level Illusion Wizard with Illusory Script, Detect Thoughts, and Forgery Kit proficiency
Illusion Wizards get access to the following feature at 6th level:
Malleable Illusions. Starting at 6th level, when you cast an illusion spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can use your action to change the nature of that illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion), provided that you can see the illusion.
Combined with Illusory Script, this feature can be used to, as just a single action (and without any spell components that would make that action conspicuous), change the text on a Illusory-Script-ed piece of paper they can see.
So, as this Wizard, you can:
- Cast Illusory Script on a piece of paper. It doesn't matter what the script says. This is your "psychic paper".
- Cast Detect Thoughts out of sight of the gatekeeper/whoever you're trying to fool.
- Walk up to them demanding entrance. Use Detect Thoughts to guide your claims about who you are.
- When they ask for proof of your authority, get out your "psychic paper", unfolding it facing you. Use their surface thoughts about what they would expect to see on a document which actually proved your claims to guide your Malleable-Illusion changes to what the script says.
- Show your "psychic paper" to the gatekeeper. It says whatever they expected it would if it were legitimate.
The Forgery Kit proficiency is just bonus - as a DM I would rule this trick more likely to work if the wizard was also a skilled forger, as the result of their on-the-fly illusion change could then be even more authentic.
answered 7 hours ago
VigilVigil
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Looking deeper into illusory script, it says " writing appears normal, written in your hand,". Most official documents aren't written in your own hand :)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@NautArch But (at least in the fantasy-medieval settings that comprise much of 5e), they are written in someone's hand - and how is the gatekeeper to know that it's yours? Your point may turn Forger's Kit proficiency from a bonus into a requirement - then "your own hand" can effectively be "any hand you can forge".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
There's also the issue that detect thoughts may not (and probably won't) give you what you're looking for unless you do a deeper probe. I imagine surface thoughts of a standard guard aren't "Gee, I wonder if this is Capt X of the Garrison" and more "who the heck is this guy?"
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And what happens if you have to show the paper to someone else that you didn't plan on when you cast it?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A 6th-level Illusion Wizard with Illusory Script, Detect Thoughts, and Forgery Kit proficiency
Illusion Wizards get access to the following feature at 6th level:
Malleable Illusions. Starting at 6th level, when you cast an illusion spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can use your action to change the nature of that illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion), provided that you can see the illusion.
Combined with Illusory Script, this feature can be used to, as just a single action (and without any spell components that would make that action conspicuous), change the text on a Illusory-Script-ed piece of paper they can see.
So, as this Wizard, you can:
- Cast Illusory Script on a piece of paper. It doesn't matter what the script says. This is your "psychic paper".
- Cast Detect Thoughts out of sight of the gatekeeper/whoever you're trying to fool.
- Walk up to them demanding entrance. Use Detect Thoughts to guide your claims about who you are.
- When they ask for proof of your authority, get out your "psychic paper", unfolding it facing you. Use their surface thoughts about what they would expect to see on a document which actually proved your claims to guide your Malleable-Illusion changes to what the script says.
- Show your "psychic paper" to the gatekeeper. It says whatever they expected it would if it were legitimate.
The Forgery Kit proficiency is just bonus - as a DM I would rule this trick more likely to work if the wizard was also a skilled forger, as the result of their on-the-fly illusion change could then be even more authentic.
answered 7 hours ago
VigilVigil
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
$endgroup$
A 6th-level Illusion Wizard with Illusory Script, Detect Thoughts, and Forgery Kit proficiency
Illusion Wizards get access to the following feature at 6th level:
Malleable Illusions. Starting at 6th level, when you cast an illusion spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can use your action to change the nature of that illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion), provided that you can see the illusion.
Combined with Illusory Script, this feature can be used to, as just a single action (and without any spell components that would make that action conspicuous), change the text on a Illusory-Script-ed piece of paper they can see.
So, as this Wizard, you can:
- Cast Illusory Script on a piece of paper. It doesn't matter what the script says. This is your "psychic paper".
- Cast Detect Thoughts out of sight of the gatekeeper/whoever you're trying to fool.
- Walk up to them demanding entrance. Use Detect Thoughts to guide your claims about who you are.
- When they ask for proof of your authority, get out your "psychic paper", unfolding it facing you. Use their surface thoughts about what they would expect to see on a document which actually proved your claims to guide your Malleable-Illusion changes to what the script says.
- Show your "psychic paper" to the gatekeeper. It says whatever they expected it would if it were legitimate.
The Forgery Kit proficiency is just bonus - as a DM I would rule this trick more likely to work if the wizard was also a skilled forger, as the result of their on-the-fly illusion change could then be even more authentic.
answered 7 hours ago
VigilVigil
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
VigilVigil
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
VigilVigil
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
VigilVigil
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
8,0632 gold badges36 silver badges100 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
Looking deeper into illusory script, it says " writing appears normal, written in your hand,". Most official documents aren't written in your own hand :)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@NautArch But (at least in the fantasy-medieval settings that comprise much of 5e), they are written in someone's hand - and how is the gatekeeper to know that it's yours? Your point may turn Forger's Kit proficiency from a bonus into a requirement - then "your own hand" can effectively be "any hand you can forge".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
There's also the issue that detect thoughts may not (and probably won't) give you what you're looking for unless you do a deeper probe. I imagine surface thoughts of a standard guard aren't "Gee, I wonder if this is Capt X of the Garrison" and more "who the heck is this guy?"
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And what happens if you have to show the paper to someone else that you didn't plan on when you cast it?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Looking deeper into illusory script, it says " writing appears normal, written in your hand,". Most official documents aren't written in your own hand :)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@NautArch But (at least in the fantasy-medieval settings that comprise much of 5e), they are written in someone's hand - and how is the gatekeeper to know that it's yours? Your point may turn Forger's Kit proficiency from a bonus into a requirement - then "your own hand" can effectively be "any hand you can forge".
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– Vigil
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
There's also the issue that detect thoughts may not (and probably won't) give you what you're looking for unless you do a deeper probe. I imagine surface thoughts of a standard guard aren't "Gee, I wonder if this is Capt X of the Garrison" and more "who the heck is this guy?"
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And what happens if you have to show the paper to someone else that you didn't plan on when you cast it?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Looking deeper into illusory script, it says " writing appears normal, written in your hand,". Most official documents aren't written in your own hand :)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Looking deeper into illusory script, it says " writing appears normal, written in your hand,". Most official documents aren't written in your own hand :)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@NautArch But (at least in the fantasy-medieval settings that comprise much of 5e), they are written in someone's hand - and how is the gatekeeper to know that it's yours? Your point may turn Forger's Kit proficiency from a bonus into a requirement - then "your own hand" can effectively be "any hand you can forge".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch But (at least in the fantasy-medieval settings that comprise much of 5e), they are written in someone's hand - and how is the gatekeeper to know that it's yours? Your point may turn Forger's Kit proficiency from a bonus into a requirement - then "your own hand" can effectively be "any hand you can forge".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
There's also the issue that detect thoughts may not (and probably won't) give you what you're looking for unless you do a deeper probe. I imagine surface thoughts of a standard guard aren't "Gee, I wonder if this is Capt X of the Garrison" and more "who the heck is this guy?"
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
There's also the issue that detect thoughts may not (and probably won't) give you what you're looking for unless you do a deeper probe. I imagine surface thoughts of a standard guard aren't "Gee, I wonder if this is Capt X of the Garrison" and more "who the heck is this guy?"
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
And what happens if you have to show the paper to someone else that you didn't plan on when you cast it?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
And what happens if you have to show the paper to someone else that you didn't plan on when you cast it?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Blank Paper and suggestion
Ultimately, the Doctor is simply convincing someone that the paper says something that makes sense to the viewer.
This can be done with the spell suggestion:
You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. Creatures that can't be charmed are immune to this effect. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.
Is this a Course of Action?
The potential problem here is in how to interpret "course of action". Usually that implies that the suggestion is making the target "do" something. Whether or not "You read this paper to show that I'm [X]" is considered a 'course of activity' will be up to a DM to determine, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a good reason why it wouldn't work.
Is the Course of Action Reasonable?
AkA: These aren't the droids This is the paper that you're looking for
Suggestion still has the requirement that the course of action is reasonable. That's always the tricky part with this spell and can very much depend on DM decision.
But, one way that seems passable (to me as a DM), would be to suggest:
The paper you see provides credentials that will allow me past. You see this and allow me past.
At this point, you've made the potentially reasonable suggestion that they see exactly what they expect to see from someone they'd allow past. And then would do so because their narrative of why they'd allow you to pass has been met.
Basically, it's reasonable that they'd have visitors they allow past. They know who those visitors are. You are planting the suggestion that you are one of those visitors.
Difference from Psychic Paper
The big difference here is that you do need to 'prompt' the target as to how to read the paper. I think it still works from a Doctor Who lore perspective for suggestion to cover this, but it is a little bit clunkier.
answered 7 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Blank Paper and suggestion
Ultimately, the Doctor is simply convincing someone that the paper says something that makes sense to the viewer.
This can be done with the spell suggestion:
You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. Creatures that can't be charmed are immune to this effect. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.
Is this a Course of Action?
The potential problem here is in how to interpret "course of action". Usually that implies that the suggestion is making the target "do" something. Whether or not "You read this paper to show that I'm [X]" is considered a 'course of activity' will be up to a DM to determine, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a good reason why it wouldn't work.
Is the Course of Action Reasonable?
AkA: These aren't the droids This is the paper that you're looking for
Suggestion still has the requirement that the course of action is reasonable. That's always the tricky part with this spell and can very much depend on DM decision.
But, one way that seems passable (to me as a DM), would be to suggest:
The paper you see provides credentials that will allow me past. You see this and allow me past.
At this point, you've made the potentially reasonable suggestion that they see exactly what they expect to see from someone they'd allow past. And then would do so because their narrative of why they'd allow you to pass has been met.
Basically, it's reasonable that they'd have visitors they allow past. They know who those visitors are. You are planting the suggestion that you are one of those visitors.
Difference from Psychic Paper
The big difference here is that you do need to 'prompt' the target as to how to read the paper. I think it still works from a Doctor Who lore perspective for suggestion to cover this, but it is a little bit clunkier.
answered 7 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Blank Paper and suggestion
Ultimately, the Doctor is simply convincing someone that the paper says something that makes sense to the viewer.
This can be done with the spell suggestion:
You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. Creatures that can't be charmed are immune to this effect. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.
Is this a Course of Action?
The potential problem here is in how to interpret "course of action". Usually that implies that the suggestion is making the target "do" something. Whether or not "You read this paper to show that I'm [X]" is considered a 'course of activity' will be up to a DM to determine, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a good reason why it wouldn't work.
Is the Course of Action Reasonable?
AkA: These aren't the droids This is the paper that you're looking for
Suggestion still has the requirement that the course of action is reasonable. That's always the tricky part with this spell and can very much depend on DM decision.
But, one way that seems passable (to me as a DM), would be to suggest:
The paper you see provides credentials that will allow me past. You see this and allow me past.
At this point, you've made the potentially reasonable suggestion that they see exactly what they expect to see from someone they'd allow past. And then would do so because their narrative of why they'd allow you to pass has been met.
Basically, it's reasonable that they'd have visitors they allow past. They know who those visitors are. You are planting the suggestion that you are one of those visitors.
Difference from Psychic Paper
The big difference here is that you do need to 'prompt' the target as to how to read the paper. I think it still works from a Doctor Who lore perspective for suggestion to cover this, but it is a little bit clunkier.
answered 7 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Blank Paper and suggestion
Ultimately, the Doctor is simply convincing someone that the paper says something that makes sense to the viewer.
This can be done with the spell suggestion:
You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. Creatures that can't be charmed are immune to this effect. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.
Is this a Course of Action?
The potential problem here is in how to interpret "course of action". Usually that implies that the suggestion is making the target "do" something. Whether or not "You read this paper to show that I'm [X]" is considered a 'course of activity' will be up to a DM to determine, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a good reason why it wouldn't work.
Is the Course of Action Reasonable?
AkA: These aren't the droids This is the paper that you're looking for
Suggestion still has the requirement that the course of action is reasonable. That's always the tricky part with this spell and can very much depend on DM decision.
But, one way that seems passable (to me as a DM), would be to suggest:
The paper you see provides credentials that will allow me past. You see this and allow me past.
At this point, you've made the potentially reasonable suggestion that they see exactly what they expect to see from someone they'd allow past. And then would do so because their narrative of why they'd allow you to pass has been met.
Basically, it's reasonable that they'd have visitors they allow past. They know who those visitors are. You are planting the suggestion that you are one of those visitors.
Difference from Psychic Paper
The big difference here is that you do need to 'prompt' the target as to how to read the paper. I think it still works from a Doctor Who lore perspective for suggestion to cover this, but it is a little bit clunkier.
answered 7 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
edited 3 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
NautArchNautArch
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
71.6k14 gold badges275 silver badges477 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
$begingroup$
@StuperUser is there any particular reason why a DM can't just make up such an item?
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
"legitimate 5e spells/items" is not a strict criterion, many campaigns (including AL ones) have their own magic items and some introduce new spells as well
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@enkryptor because I am the DM, and I did and it played in a fun and productive way, but I'm asking for balance reasons. It could easily break RP encounters if abused by cheeky little munchkins. If it cost 1000pp for materials or is a 9th level spell, that's different to it being a reskin of a 1st level spell with 10gp worth of components.
$endgroup$
– StuperUser
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
"I'm asking for balance reasons" — you should say this in the question. Like, "If I introduce such an item, what would be its rarity and cost" @StuperUser
$endgroup$
– enkryptor
6 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@enkryptor "published spells/items" a perfectly valid criterion, which I think is what is meant here...
$endgroup$
– Carcer
6 hours ago