Can an abelian group be a real vector space in more than one way?Is an automorphism of the field of real numbers the identity map?number of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian groupnumber of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian groupModule, vector space and abelian groupClassify all possible $R$-module structures on a vector spaceWhen can an infinite abelian group be embedded in the multiplicative group of a field?Can the integers be made into a vector space over any Finite Field?Question on uniquely $p$-divisible groupsPossible differences between a vector space and the action of a multiplicative group of a field over an abelian groupShow if an abelian group $G$ has a $mathbb Q$-vector space structure, then it is unique.An abelian group as an $mathbb F_2$-vector spaceHow many products can a $K$-vector space $v$ have?

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Can an abelian group be a real vector space in more than one way?

Why can't supermassive black holes merge? (or can they?)



Can an abelian group be a real vector space in more than one way?


Is an automorphism of the field of real numbers the identity map?number of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian groupnumber of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian groupModule, vector space and abelian groupClassify all possible $R$-module structures on a vector spaceWhen can an infinite abelian group be embedded in the multiplicative group of a field?Can the integers be made into a vector space over any Finite Field?Question on uniquely $p$-divisible groupsPossible differences between a vector space and the action of a multiplicative group of a field over an abelian groupShow if an abelian group $G$ has a $mathbb Q$-vector space structure, then it is unique.An abelian group as an $mathbb F_2$-vector spaceHow many products can a $K$-vector space $v$ have?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








2












$begingroup$


We know that any $mathbbZ$ module structure on an abelian group is unique, and furthermore the same is true for $mathbbQ$.



Any complex vector space structure is not unique, we can just compose with an automorphism of $mathbbC$ (for example the conjugation map).



However, $mathbbR$ has trivial automorphism group, see:



Is an automorphism of the field of real numbers the identity map?



So my question is, given an abelian group made into an $mathbbR$ vector space, is this the only way we can do this?



We would get another structure if we can embed $mathbbR$ into itself, but I'm not sure if this is possible.



If not, then of all the different $mathbbR$ structures, must they all have the same dimension?



I know that both of these are not true for general fields.



Thanks in advance.



(Related: number of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian group)










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$


















    2












    $begingroup$


    We know that any $mathbbZ$ module structure on an abelian group is unique, and furthermore the same is true for $mathbbQ$.



    Any complex vector space structure is not unique, we can just compose with an automorphism of $mathbbC$ (for example the conjugation map).



    However, $mathbbR$ has trivial automorphism group, see:



    Is an automorphism of the field of real numbers the identity map?



    So my question is, given an abelian group made into an $mathbbR$ vector space, is this the only way we can do this?



    We would get another structure if we can embed $mathbbR$ into itself, but I'm not sure if this is possible.



    If not, then of all the different $mathbbR$ structures, must they all have the same dimension?



    I know that both of these are not true for general fields.



    Thanks in advance.



    (Related: number of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian group)










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      We know that any $mathbbZ$ module structure on an abelian group is unique, and furthermore the same is true for $mathbbQ$.



      Any complex vector space structure is not unique, we can just compose with an automorphism of $mathbbC$ (for example the conjugation map).



      However, $mathbbR$ has trivial automorphism group, see:



      Is an automorphism of the field of real numbers the identity map?



      So my question is, given an abelian group made into an $mathbbR$ vector space, is this the only way we can do this?



      We would get another structure if we can embed $mathbbR$ into itself, but I'm not sure if this is possible.



      If not, then of all the different $mathbbR$ structures, must they all have the same dimension?



      I know that both of these are not true for general fields.



      Thanks in advance.



      (Related: number of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian group)










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      We know that any $mathbbZ$ module structure on an abelian group is unique, and furthermore the same is true for $mathbbQ$.



      Any complex vector space structure is not unique, we can just compose with an automorphism of $mathbbC$ (for example the conjugation map).



      However, $mathbbR$ has trivial automorphism group, see:



      Is an automorphism of the field of real numbers the identity map?



      So my question is, given an abelian group made into an $mathbbR$ vector space, is this the only way we can do this?



      We would get another structure if we can embed $mathbbR$ into itself, but I'm not sure if this is possible.



      If not, then of all the different $mathbbR$ structures, must they all have the same dimension?



      I know that both of these are not true for general fields.



      Thanks in advance.



      (Related: number of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian group)







      vector-spaces field-theory modules






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked 8 hours ago









      JamesJames

      1479 bronze badges




      1479 bronze badges




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$

          Sure. Note that instead of using an automorphism of $mathbbR$, you can use an automorphism of the abelian group. Given $mathbbR$-vector spaces $V$ and $W$ any abelian group isomorphism $f:Vto W$, you can define a new $mathbbR$-vector space structure on $V$ with scalar multiplication $mathbbRtimes Vto V$ given by $(r,v)mapsto f^-1(rf(v))$. This will not be the same as the original scalar multiplication on $V$ unless $f$ is $mathbbR$-linear.



          In particular, as an abelian group, an $mathbbR$-vector space $V$ of dimension $n$ is just a $mathbbQ$-vector space of dimension $ncdot 2^aleph_0$. If $n>0$, this gives loads of automorphisms of $V$ that are not $mathbbR$-linear (for instance, for any nonzero $vin V$ and any irrational $alphainmathbbR$, $v$ and $alpha v$ are linearly independent over $mathbbQ$ so there is an automorphism that exchanges $v$ and $alpha v$, and this cannot be $mathbbR$-linear), and thus loads of isomorphic but distinct $mathbbR$-vector space structures on $V$. Or, if $0<n,m leq 2^aleph_0$, then $ncdot 2^aleph_0=mcdot 2^aleph_0=2^aleph_0$, so $V$ is actually isomorphic as an abelian group to any $mathbbR$-vector space $W$ of dimension $m$, and so $V$ can also be given an $mathbbR$-vector space structure of dimension $m$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Excellent, thanks! :)
            $endgroup$
            – James
            7 hours ago


















          5












          $begingroup$

          $BbbR$ and $BbbR^2$ are isomorphic as abelian groups but not as real vector spaces.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, and are of different $mathbbR$ dimension.
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago


















          -1












          $begingroup$

          You can non-trivially embed the real field into itself. This is because every field extension has a transcendence basis.



          So let $S ⊆ ℝ$ be a transcendence basis for $ℝ/ℚ$. Let $F = ℚ(S)$. Then $ℝ/F$ is an algebraic extension. Now every map $S → S$ naturally extends to a field morphism $F → F$ and then to a field morphism $ℝ → ℝ$.



          Since $S$ is uncountable, this yields uncountably many field morphisms $ℝ → ℝ$, all of which give rise to different $ℝ$-linear structures on the abelian group $ℝ$ itself.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. What about, instead of $mathbbR$, we take our field to be F, where F has no transcendence basis? I presume this must happen for some fields like $mathbbQ$. Must then the structure be unique or the dimension unique?
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            This is wrong, a morphism $Fto F$ does not necessarily extend to a morphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Indeed, any ring homomorphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$ is the identity, even if you do not require surjectivity. If you look at the answers at math.stackexchange.com/questions/449404/…, none of them actually require the map to be surjective.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago













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          3 Answers
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          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          1












          $begingroup$

          Sure. Note that instead of using an automorphism of $mathbbR$, you can use an automorphism of the abelian group. Given $mathbbR$-vector spaces $V$ and $W$ any abelian group isomorphism $f:Vto W$, you can define a new $mathbbR$-vector space structure on $V$ with scalar multiplication $mathbbRtimes Vto V$ given by $(r,v)mapsto f^-1(rf(v))$. This will not be the same as the original scalar multiplication on $V$ unless $f$ is $mathbbR$-linear.



          In particular, as an abelian group, an $mathbbR$-vector space $V$ of dimension $n$ is just a $mathbbQ$-vector space of dimension $ncdot 2^aleph_0$. If $n>0$, this gives loads of automorphisms of $V$ that are not $mathbbR$-linear (for instance, for any nonzero $vin V$ and any irrational $alphainmathbbR$, $v$ and $alpha v$ are linearly independent over $mathbbQ$ so there is an automorphism that exchanges $v$ and $alpha v$, and this cannot be $mathbbR$-linear), and thus loads of isomorphic but distinct $mathbbR$-vector space structures on $V$. Or, if $0<n,m leq 2^aleph_0$, then $ncdot 2^aleph_0=mcdot 2^aleph_0=2^aleph_0$, so $V$ is actually isomorphic as an abelian group to any $mathbbR$-vector space $W$ of dimension $m$, and so $V$ can also be given an $mathbbR$-vector space structure of dimension $m$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Excellent, thanks! :)
            $endgroup$
            – James
            7 hours ago















          1












          $begingroup$

          Sure. Note that instead of using an automorphism of $mathbbR$, you can use an automorphism of the abelian group. Given $mathbbR$-vector spaces $V$ and $W$ any abelian group isomorphism $f:Vto W$, you can define a new $mathbbR$-vector space structure on $V$ with scalar multiplication $mathbbRtimes Vto V$ given by $(r,v)mapsto f^-1(rf(v))$. This will not be the same as the original scalar multiplication on $V$ unless $f$ is $mathbbR$-linear.



          In particular, as an abelian group, an $mathbbR$-vector space $V$ of dimension $n$ is just a $mathbbQ$-vector space of dimension $ncdot 2^aleph_0$. If $n>0$, this gives loads of automorphisms of $V$ that are not $mathbbR$-linear (for instance, for any nonzero $vin V$ and any irrational $alphainmathbbR$, $v$ and $alpha v$ are linearly independent over $mathbbQ$ so there is an automorphism that exchanges $v$ and $alpha v$, and this cannot be $mathbbR$-linear), and thus loads of isomorphic but distinct $mathbbR$-vector space structures on $V$. Or, if $0<n,m leq 2^aleph_0$, then $ncdot 2^aleph_0=mcdot 2^aleph_0=2^aleph_0$, so $V$ is actually isomorphic as an abelian group to any $mathbbR$-vector space $W$ of dimension $m$, and so $V$ can also be given an $mathbbR$-vector space structure of dimension $m$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Excellent, thanks! :)
            $endgroup$
            – James
            7 hours ago













          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          Sure. Note that instead of using an automorphism of $mathbbR$, you can use an automorphism of the abelian group. Given $mathbbR$-vector spaces $V$ and $W$ any abelian group isomorphism $f:Vto W$, you can define a new $mathbbR$-vector space structure on $V$ with scalar multiplication $mathbbRtimes Vto V$ given by $(r,v)mapsto f^-1(rf(v))$. This will not be the same as the original scalar multiplication on $V$ unless $f$ is $mathbbR$-linear.



          In particular, as an abelian group, an $mathbbR$-vector space $V$ of dimension $n$ is just a $mathbbQ$-vector space of dimension $ncdot 2^aleph_0$. If $n>0$, this gives loads of automorphisms of $V$ that are not $mathbbR$-linear (for instance, for any nonzero $vin V$ and any irrational $alphainmathbbR$, $v$ and $alpha v$ are linearly independent over $mathbbQ$ so there is an automorphism that exchanges $v$ and $alpha v$, and this cannot be $mathbbR$-linear), and thus loads of isomorphic but distinct $mathbbR$-vector space structures on $V$. Or, if $0<n,m leq 2^aleph_0$, then $ncdot 2^aleph_0=mcdot 2^aleph_0=2^aleph_0$, so $V$ is actually isomorphic as an abelian group to any $mathbbR$-vector space $W$ of dimension $m$, and so $V$ can also be given an $mathbbR$-vector space structure of dimension $m$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Sure. Note that instead of using an automorphism of $mathbbR$, you can use an automorphism of the abelian group. Given $mathbbR$-vector spaces $V$ and $W$ any abelian group isomorphism $f:Vto W$, you can define a new $mathbbR$-vector space structure on $V$ with scalar multiplication $mathbbRtimes Vto V$ given by $(r,v)mapsto f^-1(rf(v))$. This will not be the same as the original scalar multiplication on $V$ unless $f$ is $mathbbR$-linear.



          In particular, as an abelian group, an $mathbbR$-vector space $V$ of dimension $n$ is just a $mathbbQ$-vector space of dimension $ncdot 2^aleph_0$. If $n>0$, this gives loads of automorphisms of $V$ that are not $mathbbR$-linear (for instance, for any nonzero $vin V$ and any irrational $alphainmathbbR$, $v$ and $alpha v$ are linearly independent over $mathbbQ$ so there is an automorphism that exchanges $v$ and $alpha v$, and this cannot be $mathbbR$-linear), and thus loads of isomorphic but distinct $mathbbR$-vector space structures on $V$. Or, if $0<n,m leq 2^aleph_0$, then $ncdot 2^aleph_0=mcdot 2^aleph_0=2^aleph_0$, so $V$ is actually isomorphic as an abelian group to any $mathbbR$-vector space $W$ of dimension $m$, and so $V$ can also be given an $mathbbR$-vector space structure of dimension $m$.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 7 hours ago

























          answered 7 hours ago









          Eric WofseyEric Wofsey

          203k14 gold badges235 silver badges368 bronze badges




          203k14 gold badges235 silver badges368 bronze badges











          • $begingroup$
            Excellent, thanks! :)
            $endgroup$
            – James
            7 hours ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Excellent, thanks! :)
            $endgroup$
            – James
            7 hours ago















          $begingroup$
          Excellent, thanks! :)
          $endgroup$
          – James
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Excellent, thanks! :)
          $endgroup$
          – James
          7 hours ago













          5












          $begingroup$

          $BbbR$ and $BbbR^2$ are isomorphic as abelian groups but not as real vector spaces.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, and are of different $mathbbR$ dimension.
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago















          5












          $begingroup$

          $BbbR$ and $BbbR^2$ are isomorphic as abelian groups but not as real vector spaces.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, and are of different $mathbbR$ dimension.
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago













          5












          5








          5





          $begingroup$

          $BbbR$ and $BbbR^2$ are isomorphic as abelian groups but not as real vector spaces.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          $BbbR$ and $BbbR^2$ are isomorphic as abelian groups but not as real vector spaces.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 8 hours ago









          Rob ArthanRob Arthan

          30.1k4 gold badges29 silver badges69 bronze badges




          30.1k4 gold badges29 silver badges69 bronze badges











          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, and are of different $mathbbR$ dimension.
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, and are of different $mathbbR$ dimension.
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago















          $begingroup$
          Thanks, and are of different $mathbbR$ dimension.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          8 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Thanks, and are of different $mathbbR$ dimension.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          8 hours ago











          -1












          $begingroup$

          You can non-trivially embed the real field into itself. This is because every field extension has a transcendence basis.



          So let $S ⊆ ℝ$ be a transcendence basis for $ℝ/ℚ$. Let $F = ℚ(S)$. Then $ℝ/F$ is an algebraic extension. Now every map $S → S$ naturally extends to a field morphism $F → F$ and then to a field morphism $ℝ → ℝ$.



          Since $S$ is uncountable, this yields uncountably many field morphisms $ℝ → ℝ$, all of which give rise to different $ℝ$-linear structures on the abelian group $ℝ$ itself.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. What about, instead of $mathbbR$, we take our field to be F, where F has no transcendence basis? I presume this must happen for some fields like $mathbbQ$. Must then the structure be unique or the dimension unique?
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            This is wrong, a morphism $Fto F$ does not necessarily extend to a morphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Indeed, any ring homomorphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$ is the identity, even if you do not require surjectivity. If you look at the answers at math.stackexchange.com/questions/449404/…, none of them actually require the map to be surjective.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago















          -1












          $begingroup$

          You can non-trivially embed the real field into itself. This is because every field extension has a transcendence basis.



          So let $S ⊆ ℝ$ be a transcendence basis for $ℝ/ℚ$. Let $F = ℚ(S)$. Then $ℝ/F$ is an algebraic extension. Now every map $S → S$ naturally extends to a field morphism $F → F$ and then to a field morphism $ℝ → ℝ$.



          Since $S$ is uncountable, this yields uncountably many field morphisms $ℝ → ℝ$, all of which give rise to different $ℝ$-linear structures on the abelian group $ℝ$ itself.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. What about, instead of $mathbbR$, we take our field to be F, where F has no transcendence basis? I presume this must happen for some fields like $mathbbQ$. Must then the structure be unique or the dimension unique?
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            This is wrong, a morphism $Fto F$ does not necessarily extend to a morphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Indeed, any ring homomorphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$ is the identity, even if you do not require surjectivity. If you look at the answers at math.stackexchange.com/questions/449404/…, none of them actually require the map to be surjective.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago













          -1












          -1








          -1





          $begingroup$

          You can non-trivially embed the real field into itself. This is because every field extension has a transcendence basis.



          So let $S ⊆ ℝ$ be a transcendence basis for $ℝ/ℚ$. Let $F = ℚ(S)$. Then $ℝ/F$ is an algebraic extension. Now every map $S → S$ naturally extends to a field morphism $F → F$ and then to a field morphism $ℝ → ℝ$.



          Since $S$ is uncountable, this yields uncountably many field morphisms $ℝ → ℝ$, all of which give rise to different $ℝ$-linear structures on the abelian group $ℝ$ itself.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          You can non-trivially embed the real field into itself. This is because every field extension has a transcendence basis.



          So let $S ⊆ ℝ$ be a transcendence basis for $ℝ/ℚ$. Let $F = ℚ(S)$. Then $ℝ/F$ is an algebraic extension. Now every map $S → S$ naturally extends to a field morphism $F → F$ and then to a field morphism $ℝ → ℝ$.



          Since $S$ is uncountable, this yields uncountably many field morphisms $ℝ → ℝ$, all of which give rise to different $ℝ$-linear structures on the abelian group $ℝ$ itself.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 8 hours ago









          k.stmk.stm

          11.4k3 gold badges23 silver badges50 bronze badges




          11.4k3 gold badges23 silver badges50 bronze badges











          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. What about, instead of $mathbbR$, we take our field to be F, where F has no transcendence basis? I presume this must happen for some fields like $mathbbQ$. Must then the structure be unique or the dimension unique?
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            This is wrong, a morphism $Fto F$ does not necessarily extend to a morphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Indeed, any ring homomorphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$ is the identity, even if you do not require surjectivity. If you look at the answers at math.stackexchange.com/questions/449404/…, none of them actually require the map to be surjective.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. What about, instead of $mathbbR$, we take our field to be F, where F has no transcendence basis? I presume this must happen for some fields like $mathbbQ$. Must then the structure be unique or the dimension unique?
            $endgroup$
            – James
            8 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            This is wrong, a morphism $Fto F$ does not necessarily extend to a morphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Indeed, any ring homomorphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$ is the identity, even if you do not require surjectivity. If you look at the answers at math.stackexchange.com/questions/449404/…, none of them actually require the map to be surjective.
            $endgroup$
            – Eric Wofsey
            8 hours ago















          $begingroup$
          Thanks. What about, instead of $mathbbR$, we take our field to be F, where F has no transcendence basis? I presume this must happen for some fields like $mathbbQ$. Must then the structure be unique or the dimension unique?
          $endgroup$
          – James
          8 hours ago





          $begingroup$
          Thanks. What about, instead of $mathbbR$, we take our field to be F, where F has no transcendence basis? I presume this must happen for some fields like $mathbbQ$. Must then the structure be unique or the dimension unique?
          $endgroup$
          – James
          8 hours ago













          $begingroup$
          This is wrong, a morphism $Fto F$ does not necessarily extend to a morphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$.
          $endgroup$
          – Eric Wofsey
          8 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          This is wrong, a morphism $Fto F$ does not necessarily extend to a morphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$.
          $endgroup$
          – Eric Wofsey
          8 hours ago




          2




          2




          $begingroup$
          Indeed, any ring homomorphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$ is the identity, even if you do not require surjectivity. If you look at the answers at math.stackexchange.com/questions/449404/…, none of them actually require the map to be surjective.
          $endgroup$
          – Eric Wofsey
          8 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Indeed, any ring homomorphism $mathbbRtomathbbR$ is the identity, even if you do not require surjectivity. If you look at the answers at math.stackexchange.com/questions/449404/…, none of them actually require the map to be surjective.
          $endgroup$
          – Eric Wofsey
          8 hours ago

















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