“A killed B” translationWhat is Google Translate good for?What is a Latin version of Inshallah?Translation verificationIs this translation of “United we light the Way” correct?Translation of ‘I am, therefore I thank’need translation of thomas merton for epitaphNeed pithy translation for “I fall, yet I rise again”Is this translation right?Translation of “invincible independence”English to Latin translationTranslation of “Do it for her”

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“A killed B” translation


What is Google Translate good for?What is a Latin version of Inshallah?Translation verificationIs this translation of “United we light the Way” correct?Translation of ‘I am, therefore I thank’need translation of thomas merton for epitaphNeed pithy translation for “I fall, yet I rise again”Is this translation right?Translation of “invincible independence”English to Latin translationTranslation of “Do it for her”






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3















I hope this is the correct place to ask, I have 0 experience with Latin but need this one phrase translated.
"A killed B" as in "Tom killed John".



From what I understand, for my context the best verb is "occido" but how would you use this verb?



Google offers several options:



  1. "A occisus B"

  2. "A occisus est B"

  3. "A occidit B"

  4. "A occidi B"

I assume the second option will be translated more like "A was killed by B", so for my purposes I should go with option 1?



Thank you in advance :)










share|improve this question









New contributor



Danil Luzin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • Latin has an astounding number of words for "kill". Can you tell us a little more context: what you want to say, the situation where you want to say it, who's killing and who's being killed? That'll help someone choose an appropriate way to say it.

    – Ben Kovitz
    8 hours ago











  • And by the way, you've come to the right place. Google Translate is so bad, it should be disregarded completely.

    – Ben Kovitz
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    "A has killed B" (B was killed by A). In my context death in battle or by a sword or something like that should work. Hope that clarifies the question :)

    – Danil Luzin
    8 hours ago







  • 1





    For anyone wanting to look over and weigh the choices, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists 33 verbs for "kill".

    – Ben Kovitz
    7 hours ago







  • 1





    Ben, many thanks for this great link! It's really wonderful!

    – Mitomino
    7 hours ago

















3















I hope this is the correct place to ask, I have 0 experience with Latin but need this one phrase translated.
"A killed B" as in "Tom killed John".



From what I understand, for my context the best verb is "occido" but how would you use this verb?



Google offers several options:



  1. "A occisus B"

  2. "A occisus est B"

  3. "A occidit B"

  4. "A occidi B"

I assume the second option will be translated more like "A was killed by B", so for my purposes I should go with option 1?



Thank you in advance :)










share|improve this question









New contributor



Danil Luzin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • Latin has an astounding number of words for "kill". Can you tell us a little more context: what you want to say, the situation where you want to say it, who's killing and who's being killed? That'll help someone choose an appropriate way to say it.

    – Ben Kovitz
    8 hours ago











  • And by the way, you've come to the right place. Google Translate is so bad, it should be disregarded completely.

    – Ben Kovitz
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    "A has killed B" (B was killed by A). In my context death in battle or by a sword or something like that should work. Hope that clarifies the question :)

    – Danil Luzin
    8 hours ago







  • 1





    For anyone wanting to look over and weigh the choices, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists 33 verbs for "kill".

    – Ben Kovitz
    7 hours ago







  • 1





    Ben, many thanks for this great link! It's really wonderful!

    – Mitomino
    7 hours ago













3












3








3








I hope this is the correct place to ask, I have 0 experience with Latin but need this one phrase translated.
"A killed B" as in "Tom killed John".



From what I understand, for my context the best verb is "occido" but how would you use this verb?



Google offers several options:



  1. "A occisus B"

  2. "A occisus est B"

  3. "A occidit B"

  4. "A occidi B"

I assume the second option will be translated more like "A was killed by B", so for my purposes I should go with option 1?



Thank you in advance :)










share|improve this question









New contributor



Danil Luzin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I hope this is the correct place to ask, I have 0 experience with Latin but need this one phrase translated.
"A killed B" as in "Tom killed John".



From what I understand, for my context the best verb is "occido" but how would you use this verb?



Google offers several options:



  1. "A occisus B"

  2. "A occisus est B"

  3. "A occidit B"

  4. "A occidi B"

I assume the second option will be translated more like "A was killed by B", so for my purposes I should go with option 1?



Thank you in advance :)







idiom english-to-latin-translation






share|improve this question









New contributor



Danil Luzin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Danil Luzin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 8 hours ago









Joonas Ilmavirta

50.8k12 gold badges73 silver badges305 bronze badges




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Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked 9 hours ago









Danil LuzinDanil Luzin

182 bronze badges




182 bronze badges




New contributor



Danil Luzin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




Danil Luzin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • Latin has an astounding number of words for "kill". Can you tell us a little more context: what you want to say, the situation where you want to say it, who's killing and who's being killed? That'll help someone choose an appropriate way to say it.

    – Ben Kovitz
    8 hours ago











  • And by the way, you've come to the right place. Google Translate is so bad, it should be disregarded completely.

    – Ben Kovitz
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    "A has killed B" (B was killed by A). In my context death in battle or by a sword or something like that should work. Hope that clarifies the question :)

    – Danil Luzin
    8 hours ago







  • 1





    For anyone wanting to look over and weigh the choices, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists 33 verbs for "kill".

    – Ben Kovitz
    7 hours ago







  • 1





    Ben, many thanks for this great link! It's really wonderful!

    – Mitomino
    7 hours ago

















  • Latin has an astounding number of words for "kill". Can you tell us a little more context: what you want to say, the situation where you want to say it, who's killing and who's being killed? That'll help someone choose an appropriate way to say it.

    – Ben Kovitz
    8 hours ago











  • And by the way, you've come to the right place. Google Translate is so bad, it should be disregarded completely.

    – Ben Kovitz
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    "A has killed B" (B was killed by A). In my context death in battle or by a sword or something like that should work. Hope that clarifies the question :)

    – Danil Luzin
    8 hours ago







  • 1





    For anyone wanting to look over and weigh the choices, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists 33 verbs for "kill".

    – Ben Kovitz
    7 hours ago







  • 1





    Ben, many thanks for this great link! It's really wonderful!

    – Mitomino
    7 hours ago
















Latin has an astounding number of words for "kill". Can you tell us a little more context: what you want to say, the situation where you want to say it, who's killing and who's being killed? That'll help someone choose an appropriate way to say it.

– Ben Kovitz
8 hours ago





Latin has an astounding number of words for "kill". Can you tell us a little more context: what you want to say, the situation where you want to say it, who's killing and who's being killed? That'll help someone choose an appropriate way to say it.

– Ben Kovitz
8 hours ago













And by the way, you've come to the right place. Google Translate is so bad, it should be disregarded completely.

– Ben Kovitz
8 hours ago





And by the way, you've come to the right place. Google Translate is so bad, it should be disregarded completely.

– Ben Kovitz
8 hours ago




1




1





"A has killed B" (B was killed by A). In my context death in battle or by a sword or something like that should work. Hope that clarifies the question :)

– Danil Luzin
8 hours ago






"A has killed B" (B was killed by A). In my context death in battle or by a sword or something like that should work. Hope that clarifies the question :)

– Danil Luzin
8 hours ago





1




1





For anyone wanting to look over and weigh the choices, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists 33 verbs for "kill".

– Ben Kovitz
7 hours ago






For anyone wanting to look over and weigh the choices, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists 33 verbs for "kill".

– Ben Kovitz
7 hours ago





1




1





Ben, many thanks for this great link! It's really wonderful!

– Mitomino
7 hours ago





Ben, many thanks for this great link! It's really wonderful!

– Mitomino
7 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4














There are many words for killing, but occidere is a good one.
The form occidit means "he/she/it kills/killed".
For this particular verb the present and perfect tense forms for third person singular look alike, and these forms are also agnostic of gender.



The A and B in "A killed B" are more complicated than you might expect.
If you have any such sentence, you cannot replace A and B with any names and expect it to work.
Latin is far more concerned with the form of A and B than their order.



To illustrate this, let me replace A with Arrius and B with Baebius.
Here are some valid ways to say "Arrius killed Baebius":




  1. Arrius Baebium occidit.

  2. Baebium Arrius occidit.

  3. Arrius occidit Baebium.

  4. Baebium occidit Arrius.

  5. Baebius ab Arrio occisus est.

  6. ab Arrio Baebius occisus est.

  7. Baebius occisus est ab Arrio.



The list is not exhaustive, and options 5–7 are only valid because Baebius is a man.
Who killed whom is not decided by the order of the words — you can shuffle the words freely in a sentence like Arrius Baebium occidit without changing meaning — but by their forms.
If you wanted to swap the roles, you can change it to Arrium Baebius occidit.



The first item on my list would be the typical way to phrase it.
But if you just say "A B occidit", I would have hard time parsing it.
Perhaps "A B" is a person?
The least ambiguous way would be "A occidit B".



This is your option 3.
The others do not mean what you want.
Google Translate is horrible with Latin.



Latin works best if the words can be declined.
Foreign names or placeholders like "A" make it a little awkward.
The best way to say "A killed B" in Latin is A[nom.] B[acc.] occidit, where A is in the nominative and B in the accusative case.
There is no easy general format the way you have in English.
The required endings are different for different words, and figuring out how all that works is a key element of learning Latin.



In the specific case "Ludwig kills/killed Maria", you should choose "Ludwig Mariam occidit".
The name Maria is used as such in Latin, so the different forms are very natural.
There is a Latin version of Ludwig (Ludovicus), but that is not needed to make it all work.
The important thing is that Maria is marked as the unambiguous object with the accusative case.






share|improve this answer

























  • Thank you for a very detailed answer! I understand that it would be awkward, but would you use um ending every time? For instance in my particular case "Ludwig killed Maria" should I go with "Ludwig Marium occidit" or better stick with "Ludwig occidit Maria"

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago











  • @DanilLuzin Since "Marīa" is a Latin name, I would always decline it: the accusative is Marīam. (Or Mariam; the mark over the i indicates a slight pronunciation difference that disappeared in later Latin.)

    – Draconis
    7 hours ago











  • @Draconis Awesome! Thank you very much as well!

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago












  • @Draconis I'm glad to be able to help! I updated the answer a bit to include a translation for that specific case and to mention that the required ending depends heavily on the word. Knowing how to get all the forms right is a big part of knowing Latin.

    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    7 hours ago


















3














The verb



Here are some choices suitable for killing by sword in a battle:




Thomas Johannem occidit.

(Tom cut John down, or Tom "felled" John—a very common way to express this.)



Thomas Johannem interfecit.

(Tom did John in—a common, generic way to say "killed" in Latin, regardless of how.)



Thomas Johannem obtruncavit.

(Tom killed John by cutting him apart.)



Thomas Johannem deiecit.

(Tom brought John down with a mortal wound.)



Thomas Johannem percussit.

(Tom killed John by thrusting a weapon through him; suggests great force, enough to get through armor. Suitable for an arrow as well as a sword.)



Thomas Johannem peregit.

(Tom ran John through—thrust through, piercing, not implying great force.)




For anyone wanting more options, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists a total of 33 Latin verbs for "kill", with details about each. A common one is neco, the root of the English word "internecine", but neco suggests killing without a weapon.



Who killed whom



Indicating who killed whom works differently in Latin than in English. Latin indicates this not by word order but by the "case" of the nouns—exactly like "who" and "whom" in English, but Latin does this on nearly all nouns. The nominative case indicates the killer, and the accusative case indicates who was killed. If John killed Tom, then you say:




Johannes Thoman occidit.




I've added links to web pages that show all the cases of each name.



Unlike English, Latin lets you rearrange the words in any order without changing the meaning. The word order creates different emphasis, which we usually indicate in English with intonation or additional words:




Thoman Johannes occidit.

(Regarding Tom, John killed him.)



Thoman occidit Johannes.

(Regarding Tom, the one who killed him was John.)



Johannes occidit Thoman.

(John killed someone—Tom.)



Occidit Thoman Johannes.

(The one who killed Tom was John.)



Occidit Johannes Thoman.

(The one whom John killed was Tom.)




If you don't want to deal with noun cases, you can stick with the prosaic word order of "Killer killee verb", as in all the examples in the first section above. Latin has to resort to this word order when dealing with foreign surnames that have no case-endings in Latin.






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    Excellent answer, Ben! The Latin verbs of killing are wonderful! And the link to Hurt's blog is indeed VERY useful! Moreover, I appreciate the English translations you give to the last series of Latin examples, which nicely exemply Marouzeau's famous claim that "word order in Latin is free but not indifferent". Your English translations clearly show the VERY important role of information structure (THEME vs. RHEME // TOPIC vs. FOCUS organization).

    – Mitomino
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    @Mitomino Thanks for confirming that I got those variants right. English speech is filled with locutions like "What works best is to start by sautéing the onions" but these get removed from formal writing because they're clumsy, leaving "Sauté the onions first." As I learn more Latin, I'm ever more impressed with its elegance—and ease. Contra a lot of 19th-century advice, what works best for reading a Latin sentence turns out to be to start with the first word and go forward, presuming a logical order. :)

    – Ben Kovitz
    3 hours ago













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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4














There are many words for killing, but occidere is a good one.
The form occidit means "he/she/it kills/killed".
For this particular verb the present and perfect tense forms for third person singular look alike, and these forms are also agnostic of gender.



The A and B in "A killed B" are more complicated than you might expect.
If you have any such sentence, you cannot replace A and B with any names and expect it to work.
Latin is far more concerned with the form of A and B than their order.



To illustrate this, let me replace A with Arrius and B with Baebius.
Here are some valid ways to say "Arrius killed Baebius":




  1. Arrius Baebium occidit.

  2. Baebium Arrius occidit.

  3. Arrius occidit Baebium.

  4. Baebium occidit Arrius.

  5. Baebius ab Arrio occisus est.

  6. ab Arrio Baebius occisus est.

  7. Baebius occisus est ab Arrio.



The list is not exhaustive, and options 5–7 are only valid because Baebius is a man.
Who killed whom is not decided by the order of the words — you can shuffle the words freely in a sentence like Arrius Baebium occidit without changing meaning — but by their forms.
If you wanted to swap the roles, you can change it to Arrium Baebius occidit.



The first item on my list would be the typical way to phrase it.
But if you just say "A B occidit", I would have hard time parsing it.
Perhaps "A B" is a person?
The least ambiguous way would be "A occidit B".



This is your option 3.
The others do not mean what you want.
Google Translate is horrible with Latin.



Latin works best if the words can be declined.
Foreign names or placeholders like "A" make it a little awkward.
The best way to say "A killed B" in Latin is A[nom.] B[acc.] occidit, where A is in the nominative and B in the accusative case.
There is no easy general format the way you have in English.
The required endings are different for different words, and figuring out how all that works is a key element of learning Latin.



In the specific case "Ludwig kills/killed Maria", you should choose "Ludwig Mariam occidit".
The name Maria is used as such in Latin, so the different forms are very natural.
There is a Latin version of Ludwig (Ludovicus), but that is not needed to make it all work.
The important thing is that Maria is marked as the unambiguous object with the accusative case.






share|improve this answer

























  • Thank you for a very detailed answer! I understand that it would be awkward, but would you use um ending every time? For instance in my particular case "Ludwig killed Maria" should I go with "Ludwig Marium occidit" or better stick with "Ludwig occidit Maria"

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago











  • @DanilLuzin Since "Marīa" is a Latin name, I would always decline it: the accusative is Marīam. (Or Mariam; the mark over the i indicates a slight pronunciation difference that disappeared in later Latin.)

    – Draconis
    7 hours ago











  • @Draconis Awesome! Thank you very much as well!

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago












  • @Draconis I'm glad to be able to help! I updated the answer a bit to include a translation for that specific case and to mention that the required ending depends heavily on the word. Knowing how to get all the forms right is a big part of knowing Latin.

    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    7 hours ago















4














There are many words for killing, but occidere is a good one.
The form occidit means "he/she/it kills/killed".
For this particular verb the present and perfect tense forms for third person singular look alike, and these forms are also agnostic of gender.



The A and B in "A killed B" are more complicated than you might expect.
If you have any such sentence, you cannot replace A and B with any names and expect it to work.
Latin is far more concerned with the form of A and B than their order.



To illustrate this, let me replace A with Arrius and B with Baebius.
Here are some valid ways to say "Arrius killed Baebius":




  1. Arrius Baebium occidit.

  2. Baebium Arrius occidit.

  3. Arrius occidit Baebium.

  4. Baebium occidit Arrius.

  5. Baebius ab Arrio occisus est.

  6. ab Arrio Baebius occisus est.

  7. Baebius occisus est ab Arrio.



The list is not exhaustive, and options 5–7 are only valid because Baebius is a man.
Who killed whom is not decided by the order of the words — you can shuffle the words freely in a sentence like Arrius Baebium occidit without changing meaning — but by their forms.
If you wanted to swap the roles, you can change it to Arrium Baebius occidit.



The first item on my list would be the typical way to phrase it.
But if you just say "A B occidit", I would have hard time parsing it.
Perhaps "A B" is a person?
The least ambiguous way would be "A occidit B".



This is your option 3.
The others do not mean what you want.
Google Translate is horrible with Latin.



Latin works best if the words can be declined.
Foreign names or placeholders like "A" make it a little awkward.
The best way to say "A killed B" in Latin is A[nom.] B[acc.] occidit, where A is in the nominative and B in the accusative case.
There is no easy general format the way you have in English.
The required endings are different for different words, and figuring out how all that works is a key element of learning Latin.



In the specific case "Ludwig kills/killed Maria", you should choose "Ludwig Mariam occidit".
The name Maria is used as such in Latin, so the different forms are very natural.
There is a Latin version of Ludwig (Ludovicus), but that is not needed to make it all work.
The important thing is that Maria is marked as the unambiguous object with the accusative case.






share|improve this answer

























  • Thank you for a very detailed answer! I understand that it would be awkward, but would you use um ending every time? For instance in my particular case "Ludwig killed Maria" should I go with "Ludwig Marium occidit" or better stick with "Ludwig occidit Maria"

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago











  • @DanilLuzin Since "Marīa" is a Latin name, I would always decline it: the accusative is Marīam. (Or Mariam; the mark over the i indicates a slight pronunciation difference that disappeared in later Latin.)

    – Draconis
    7 hours ago











  • @Draconis Awesome! Thank you very much as well!

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago












  • @Draconis I'm glad to be able to help! I updated the answer a bit to include a translation for that specific case and to mention that the required ending depends heavily on the word. Knowing how to get all the forms right is a big part of knowing Latin.

    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    7 hours ago













4












4








4







There are many words for killing, but occidere is a good one.
The form occidit means "he/she/it kills/killed".
For this particular verb the present and perfect tense forms for third person singular look alike, and these forms are also agnostic of gender.



The A and B in "A killed B" are more complicated than you might expect.
If you have any such sentence, you cannot replace A and B with any names and expect it to work.
Latin is far more concerned with the form of A and B than their order.



To illustrate this, let me replace A with Arrius and B with Baebius.
Here are some valid ways to say "Arrius killed Baebius":




  1. Arrius Baebium occidit.

  2. Baebium Arrius occidit.

  3. Arrius occidit Baebium.

  4. Baebium occidit Arrius.

  5. Baebius ab Arrio occisus est.

  6. ab Arrio Baebius occisus est.

  7. Baebius occisus est ab Arrio.



The list is not exhaustive, and options 5–7 are only valid because Baebius is a man.
Who killed whom is not decided by the order of the words — you can shuffle the words freely in a sentence like Arrius Baebium occidit without changing meaning — but by their forms.
If you wanted to swap the roles, you can change it to Arrium Baebius occidit.



The first item on my list would be the typical way to phrase it.
But if you just say "A B occidit", I would have hard time parsing it.
Perhaps "A B" is a person?
The least ambiguous way would be "A occidit B".



This is your option 3.
The others do not mean what you want.
Google Translate is horrible with Latin.



Latin works best if the words can be declined.
Foreign names or placeholders like "A" make it a little awkward.
The best way to say "A killed B" in Latin is A[nom.] B[acc.] occidit, where A is in the nominative and B in the accusative case.
There is no easy general format the way you have in English.
The required endings are different for different words, and figuring out how all that works is a key element of learning Latin.



In the specific case "Ludwig kills/killed Maria", you should choose "Ludwig Mariam occidit".
The name Maria is used as such in Latin, so the different forms are very natural.
There is a Latin version of Ludwig (Ludovicus), but that is not needed to make it all work.
The important thing is that Maria is marked as the unambiguous object with the accusative case.






share|improve this answer















There are many words for killing, but occidere is a good one.
The form occidit means "he/she/it kills/killed".
For this particular verb the present and perfect tense forms for third person singular look alike, and these forms are also agnostic of gender.



The A and B in "A killed B" are more complicated than you might expect.
If you have any such sentence, you cannot replace A and B with any names and expect it to work.
Latin is far more concerned with the form of A and B than their order.



To illustrate this, let me replace A with Arrius and B with Baebius.
Here are some valid ways to say "Arrius killed Baebius":




  1. Arrius Baebium occidit.

  2. Baebium Arrius occidit.

  3. Arrius occidit Baebium.

  4. Baebium occidit Arrius.

  5. Baebius ab Arrio occisus est.

  6. ab Arrio Baebius occisus est.

  7. Baebius occisus est ab Arrio.



The list is not exhaustive, and options 5–7 are only valid because Baebius is a man.
Who killed whom is not decided by the order of the words — you can shuffle the words freely in a sentence like Arrius Baebium occidit without changing meaning — but by their forms.
If you wanted to swap the roles, you can change it to Arrium Baebius occidit.



The first item on my list would be the typical way to phrase it.
But if you just say "A B occidit", I would have hard time parsing it.
Perhaps "A B" is a person?
The least ambiguous way would be "A occidit B".



This is your option 3.
The others do not mean what you want.
Google Translate is horrible with Latin.



Latin works best if the words can be declined.
Foreign names or placeholders like "A" make it a little awkward.
The best way to say "A killed B" in Latin is A[nom.] B[acc.] occidit, where A is in the nominative and B in the accusative case.
There is no easy general format the way you have in English.
The required endings are different for different words, and figuring out how all that works is a key element of learning Latin.



In the specific case "Ludwig kills/killed Maria", you should choose "Ludwig Mariam occidit".
The name Maria is used as such in Latin, so the different forms are very natural.
There is a Latin version of Ludwig (Ludovicus), but that is not needed to make it all work.
The important thing is that Maria is marked as the unambiguous object with the accusative case.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 7 hours ago

























answered 7 hours ago









Joonas IlmavirtaJoonas Ilmavirta

50.8k12 gold badges73 silver badges305 bronze badges




50.8k12 gold badges73 silver badges305 bronze badges












  • Thank you for a very detailed answer! I understand that it would be awkward, but would you use um ending every time? For instance in my particular case "Ludwig killed Maria" should I go with "Ludwig Marium occidit" or better stick with "Ludwig occidit Maria"

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago











  • @DanilLuzin Since "Marīa" is a Latin name, I would always decline it: the accusative is Marīam. (Or Mariam; the mark over the i indicates a slight pronunciation difference that disappeared in later Latin.)

    – Draconis
    7 hours ago











  • @Draconis Awesome! Thank you very much as well!

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago












  • @Draconis I'm glad to be able to help! I updated the answer a bit to include a translation for that specific case and to mention that the required ending depends heavily on the word. Knowing how to get all the forms right is a big part of knowing Latin.

    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    7 hours ago

















  • Thank you for a very detailed answer! I understand that it would be awkward, but would you use um ending every time? For instance in my particular case "Ludwig killed Maria" should I go with "Ludwig Marium occidit" or better stick with "Ludwig occidit Maria"

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago











  • @DanilLuzin Since "Marīa" is a Latin name, I would always decline it: the accusative is Marīam. (Or Mariam; the mark over the i indicates a slight pronunciation difference that disappeared in later Latin.)

    – Draconis
    7 hours ago











  • @Draconis Awesome! Thank you very much as well!

    – Danil Luzin
    7 hours ago












  • @Draconis I'm glad to be able to help! I updated the answer a bit to include a translation for that specific case and to mention that the required ending depends heavily on the word. Knowing how to get all the forms right is a big part of knowing Latin.

    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    7 hours ago
















Thank you for a very detailed answer! I understand that it would be awkward, but would you use um ending every time? For instance in my particular case "Ludwig killed Maria" should I go with "Ludwig Marium occidit" or better stick with "Ludwig occidit Maria"

– Danil Luzin
7 hours ago





Thank you for a very detailed answer! I understand that it would be awkward, but would you use um ending every time? For instance in my particular case "Ludwig killed Maria" should I go with "Ludwig Marium occidit" or better stick with "Ludwig occidit Maria"

– Danil Luzin
7 hours ago













@DanilLuzin Since "Marīa" is a Latin name, I would always decline it: the accusative is Marīam. (Or Mariam; the mark over the i indicates a slight pronunciation difference that disappeared in later Latin.)

– Draconis
7 hours ago





@DanilLuzin Since "Marīa" is a Latin name, I would always decline it: the accusative is Marīam. (Or Mariam; the mark over the i indicates a slight pronunciation difference that disappeared in later Latin.)

– Draconis
7 hours ago













@Draconis Awesome! Thank you very much as well!

– Danil Luzin
7 hours ago






@Draconis Awesome! Thank you very much as well!

– Danil Luzin
7 hours ago














@Draconis I'm glad to be able to help! I updated the answer a bit to include a translation for that specific case and to mention that the required ending depends heavily on the word. Knowing how to get all the forms right is a big part of knowing Latin.

– Joonas Ilmavirta
7 hours ago





@Draconis I'm glad to be able to help! I updated the answer a bit to include a translation for that specific case and to mention that the required ending depends heavily on the word. Knowing how to get all the forms right is a big part of knowing Latin.

– Joonas Ilmavirta
7 hours ago













3














The verb



Here are some choices suitable for killing by sword in a battle:




Thomas Johannem occidit.

(Tom cut John down, or Tom "felled" John—a very common way to express this.)



Thomas Johannem interfecit.

(Tom did John in—a common, generic way to say "killed" in Latin, regardless of how.)



Thomas Johannem obtruncavit.

(Tom killed John by cutting him apart.)



Thomas Johannem deiecit.

(Tom brought John down with a mortal wound.)



Thomas Johannem percussit.

(Tom killed John by thrusting a weapon through him; suggests great force, enough to get through armor. Suitable for an arrow as well as a sword.)



Thomas Johannem peregit.

(Tom ran John through—thrust through, piercing, not implying great force.)




For anyone wanting more options, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists a total of 33 Latin verbs for "kill", with details about each. A common one is neco, the root of the English word "internecine", but neco suggests killing without a weapon.



Who killed whom



Indicating who killed whom works differently in Latin than in English. Latin indicates this not by word order but by the "case" of the nouns—exactly like "who" and "whom" in English, but Latin does this on nearly all nouns. The nominative case indicates the killer, and the accusative case indicates who was killed. If John killed Tom, then you say:




Johannes Thoman occidit.




I've added links to web pages that show all the cases of each name.



Unlike English, Latin lets you rearrange the words in any order without changing the meaning. The word order creates different emphasis, which we usually indicate in English with intonation or additional words:




Thoman Johannes occidit.

(Regarding Tom, John killed him.)



Thoman occidit Johannes.

(Regarding Tom, the one who killed him was John.)



Johannes occidit Thoman.

(John killed someone—Tom.)



Occidit Thoman Johannes.

(The one who killed Tom was John.)



Occidit Johannes Thoman.

(The one whom John killed was Tom.)




If you don't want to deal with noun cases, you can stick with the prosaic word order of "Killer killee verb", as in all the examples in the first section above. Latin has to resort to this word order when dealing with foreign surnames that have no case-endings in Latin.






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    Excellent answer, Ben! The Latin verbs of killing are wonderful! And the link to Hurt's blog is indeed VERY useful! Moreover, I appreciate the English translations you give to the last series of Latin examples, which nicely exemply Marouzeau's famous claim that "word order in Latin is free but not indifferent". Your English translations clearly show the VERY important role of information structure (THEME vs. RHEME // TOPIC vs. FOCUS organization).

    – Mitomino
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    @Mitomino Thanks for confirming that I got those variants right. English speech is filled with locutions like "What works best is to start by sautéing the onions" but these get removed from formal writing because they're clumsy, leaving "Sauté the onions first." As I learn more Latin, I'm ever more impressed with its elegance—and ease. Contra a lot of 19th-century advice, what works best for reading a Latin sentence turns out to be to start with the first word and go forward, presuming a logical order. :)

    – Ben Kovitz
    3 hours ago















3














The verb



Here are some choices suitable for killing by sword in a battle:




Thomas Johannem occidit.

(Tom cut John down, or Tom "felled" John—a very common way to express this.)



Thomas Johannem interfecit.

(Tom did John in—a common, generic way to say "killed" in Latin, regardless of how.)



Thomas Johannem obtruncavit.

(Tom killed John by cutting him apart.)



Thomas Johannem deiecit.

(Tom brought John down with a mortal wound.)



Thomas Johannem percussit.

(Tom killed John by thrusting a weapon through him; suggests great force, enough to get through armor. Suitable for an arrow as well as a sword.)



Thomas Johannem peregit.

(Tom ran John through—thrust through, piercing, not implying great force.)




For anyone wanting more options, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists a total of 33 Latin verbs for "kill", with details about each. A common one is neco, the root of the English word "internecine", but neco suggests killing without a weapon.



Who killed whom



Indicating who killed whom works differently in Latin than in English. Latin indicates this not by word order but by the "case" of the nouns—exactly like "who" and "whom" in English, but Latin does this on nearly all nouns. The nominative case indicates the killer, and the accusative case indicates who was killed. If John killed Tom, then you say:




Johannes Thoman occidit.




I've added links to web pages that show all the cases of each name.



Unlike English, Latin lets you rearrange the words in any order without changing the meaning. The word order creates different emphasis, which we usually indicate in English with intonation or additional words:




Thoman Johannes occidit.

(Regarding Tom, John killed him.)



Thoman occidit Johannes.

(Regarding Tom, the one who killed him was John.)



Johannes occidit Thoman.

(John killed someone—Tom.)



Occidit Thoman Johannes.

(The one who killed Tom was John.)



Occidit Johannes Thoman.

(The one whom John killed was Tom.)




If you don't want to deal with noun cases, you can stick with the prosaic word order of "Killer killee verb", as in all the examples in the first section above. Latin has to resort to this word order when dealing with foreign surnames that have no case-endings in Latin.






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    Excellent answer, Ben! The Latin verbs of killing are wonderful! And the link to Hurt's blog is indeed VERY useful! Moreover, I appreciate the English translations you give to the last series of Latin examples, which nicely exemply Marouzeau's famous claim that "word order in Latin is free but not indifferent". Your English translations clearly show the VERY important role of information structure (THEME vs. RHEME // TOPIC vs. FOCUS organization).

    – Mitomino
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    @Mitomino Thanks for confirming that I got those variants right. English speech is filled with locutions like "What works best is to start by sautéing the onions" but these get removed from formal writing because they're clumsy, leaving "Sauté the onions first." As I learn more Latin, I'm ever more impressed with its elegance—and ease. Contra a lot of 19th-century advice, what works best for reading a Latin sentence turns out to be to start with the first word and go forward, presuming a logical order. :)

    – Ben Kovitz
    3 hours ago













3












3








3







The verb



Here are some choices suitable for killing by sword in a battle:




Thomas Johannem occidit.

(Tom cut John down, or Tom "felled" John—a very common way to express this.)



Thomas Johannem interfecit.

(Tom did John in—a common, generic way to say "killed" in Latin, regardless of how.)



Thomas Johannem obtruncavit.

(Tom killed John by cutting him apart.)



Thomas Johannem deiecit.

(Tom brought John down with a mortal wound.)



Thomas Johannem percussit.

(Tom killed John by thrusting a weapon through him; suggests great force, enough to get through armor. Suitable for an arrow as well as a sword.)



Thomas Johannem peregit.

(Tom ran John through—thrust through, piercing, not implying great force.)




For anyone wanting more options, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists a total of 33 Latin verbs for "kill", with details about each. A common one is neco, the root of the English word "internecine", but neco suggests killing without a weapon.



Who killed whom



Indicating who killed whom works differently in Latin than in English. Latin indicates this not by word order but by the "case" of the nouns—exactly like "who" and "whom" in English, but Latin does this on nearly all nouns. The nominative case indicates the killer, and the accusative case indicates who was killed. If John killed Tom, then you say:




Johannes Thoman occidit.




I've added links to web pages that show all the cases of each name.



Unlike English, Latin lets you rearrange the words in any order without changing the meaning. The word order creates different emphasis, which we usually indicate in English with intonation or additional words:




Thoman Johannes occidit.

(Regarding Tom, John killed him.)



Thoman occidit Johannes.

(Regarding Tom, the one who killed him was John.)



Johannes occidit Thoman.

(John killed someone—Tom.)



Occidit Thoman Johannes.

(The one who killed Tom was John.)



Occidit Johannes Thoman.

(The one whom John killed was Tom.)




If you don't want to deal with noun cases, you can stick with the prosaic word order of "Killer killee verb", as in all the examples in the first section above. Latin has to resort to this word order when dealing with foreign surnames that have no case-endings in Latin.






share|improve this answer















The verb



Here are some choices suitable for killing by sword in a battle:




Thomas Johannem occidit.

(Tom cut John down, or Tom "felled" John—a very common way to express this.)



Thomas Johannem interfecit.

(Tom did John in—a common, generic way to say "killed" in Latin, regardless of how.)



Thomas Johannem obtruncavit.

(Tom killed John by cutting him apart.)



Thomas Johannem deiecit.

(Tom brought John down with a mortal wound.)



Thomas Johannem percussit.

(Tom killed John by thrusting a weapon through him; suggests great force, enough to get through armor. Suitable for an arrow as well as a sword.)



Thomas Johannem peregit.

(Tom ran John through—thrust through, piercing, not implying great force.)




For anyone wanting more options, this blog post by Carla Hurt lists a total of 33 Latin verbs for "kill", with details about each. A common one is neco, the root of the English word "internecine", but neco suggests killing without a weapon.



Who killed whom



Indicating who killed whom works differently in Latin than in English. Latin indicates this not by word order but by the "case" of the nouns—exactly like "who" and "whom" in English, but Latin does this on nearly all nouns. The nominative case indicates the killer, and the accusative case indicates who was killed. If John killed Tom, then you say:




Johannes Thoman occidit.




I've added links to web pages that show all the cases of each name.



Unlike English, Latin lets you rearrange the words in any order without changing the meaning. The word order creates different emphasis, which we usually indicate in English with intonation or additional words:




Thoman Johannes occidit.

(Regarding Tom, John killed him.)



Thoman occidit Johannes.

(Regarding Tom, the one who killed him was John.)



Johannes occidit Thoman.

(John killed someone—Tom.)



Occidit Thoman Johannes.

(The one who killed Tom was John.)



Occidit Johannes Thoman.

(The one whom John killed was Tom.)




If you don't want to deal with noun cases, you can stick with the prosaic word order of "Killer killee verb", as in all the examples in the first section above. Latin has to resort to this word order when dealing with foreign surnames that have no case-endings in Latin.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 6 hours ago

























answered 6 hours ago









Ben KovitzBen Kovitz

6,8052 gold badges14 silver badges49 bronze badges




6,8052 gold badges14 silver badges49 bronze badges







  • 1





    Excellent answer, Ben! The Latin verbs of killing are wonderful! And the link to Hurt's blog is indeed VERY useful! Moreover, I appreciate the English translations you give to the last series of Latin examples, which nicely exemply Marouzeau's famous claim that "word order in Latin is free but not indifferent". Your English translations clearly show the VERY important role of information structure (THEME vs. RHEME // TOPIC vs. FOCUS organization).

    – Mitomino
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    @Mitomino Thanks for confirming that I got those variants right. English speech is filled with locutions like "What works best is to start by sautéing the onions" but these get removed from formal writing because they're clumsy, leaving "Sauté the onions first." As I learn more Latin, I'm ever more impressed with its elegance—and ease. Contra a lot of 19th-century advice, what works best for reading a Latin sentence turns out to be to start with the first word and go forward, presuming a logical order. :)

    – Ben Kovitz
    3 hours ago












  • 1





    Excellent answer, Ben! The Latin verbs of killing are wonderful! And the link to Hurt's blog is indeed VERY useful! Moreover, I appreciate the English translations you give to the last series of Latin examples, which nicely exemply Marouzeau's famous claim that "word order in Latin is free but not indifferent". Your English translations clearly show the VERY important role of information structure (THEME vs. RHEME // TOPIC vs. FOCUS organization).

    – Mitomino
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    @Mitomino Thanks for confirming that I got those variants right. English speech is filled with locutions like "What works best is to start by sautéing the onions" but these get removed from formal writing because they're clumsy, leaving "Sauté the onions first." As I learn more Latin, I'm ever more impressed with its elegance—and ease. Contra a lot of 19th-century advice, what works best for reading a Latin sentence turns out to be to start with the first word and go forward, presuming a logical order. :)

    – Ben Kovitz
    3 hours ago







1




1





Excellent answer, Ben! The Latin verbs of killing are wonderful! And the link to Hurt's blog is indeed VERY useful! Moreover, I appreciate the English translations you give to the last series of Latin examples, which nicely exemply Marouzeau's famous claim that "word order in Latin is free but not indifferent". Your English translations clearly show the VERY important role of information structure (THEME vs. RHEME // TOPIC vs. FOCUS organization).

– Mitomino
4 hours ago






Excellent answer, Ben! The Latin verbs of killing are wonderful! And the link to Hurt's blog is indeed VERY useful! Moreover, I appreciate the English translations you give to the last series of Latin examples, which nicely exemply Marouzeau's famous claim that "word order in Latin is free but not indifferent". Your English translations clearly show the VERY important role of information structure (THEME vs. RHEME // TOPIC vs. FOCUS organization).

– Mitomino
4 hours ago





1




1





@Mitomino Thanks for confirming that I got those variants right. English speech is filled with locutions like "What works best is to start by sautéing the onions" but these get removed from formal writing because they're clumsy, leaving "Sauté the onions first." As I learn more Latin, I'm ever more impressed with its elegance—and ease. Contra a lot of 19th-century advice, what works best for reading a Latin sentence turns out to be to start with the first word and go forward, presuming a logical order. :)

– Ben Kovitz
3 hours ago





@Mitomino Thanks for confirming that I got those variants right. English speech is filled with locutions like "What works best is to start by sautéing the onions" but these get removed from formal writing because they're clumsy, leaving "Sauté the onions first." As I learn more Latin, I'm ever more impressed with its elegance—and ease. Contra a lot of 19th-century advice, what works best for reading a Latin sentence turns out to be to start with the first word and go forward, presuming a logical order. :)

– Ben Kovitz
3 hours ago










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