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Why does the Mishnah use the terms poor person and homeowner when discussing carrying on Shabbat?
Difference between the Mishnah, Gemara and the TalmudWhy does the Mishnah/Gemara begin with Masekhet Berakhot?Why does R. Nachman b. Yitzchak say a blessing, and why does the Bavli include it? (שבת דף מו)What are the opinions on carrying medicine/medical devices on Shabbat?Does חי נושא את עצמו apply only when the human being is conscious?Mishnah wording - why use questions?Why Mishnah doesn't mention Halochos of Mishloach Manot, Matanot laEvionim and the Seudah?Why is a statement by רבי included in a beraisa and not in a mishnah?Does the Mishnah have Taamei Mikrah?Why record retracted opinions in the mishnah?
This first Mishna in Shabbat (2a) describes the transfer of an item from a private domain to a public domain. The Mishna describes the individuals involved in this transfer as
העני עומד בחוץ ובעל הבית בפנים
The poor person stands outside, in the public domain, and the homeowner stands inside, in the private domain.
There are many other labels which could have been used including generic names (eg Reuven and Shimon) labels related to the act (machnis/motzi). Why did the Mishna choose to use the specific labels of poor person and homeowner?
mishna maseches-shabbos hotzaa-carrying-reshuyot
edited 7 hours ago
Al Berko
7,5502631
asked 10 hours ago
rikitikitemborikitikitembo
5,39311058
add a comment |
This first Mishna in Shabbat (2a) describes the transfer of an item from a private domain to a public domain. The Mishna describes the individuals involved in this transfer as
העני עומד בחוץ ובעל הבית בפנים
The poor person stands outside, in the public domain, and the homeowner stands inside, in the private domain.
There are many other labels which could have been used including generic names (eg Reuven and Shimon) labels related to the act (machnis/motzi). Why did the Mishna choose to use the specific labels of poor person and homeowner?
mishna maseches-shabbos hotzaa-carrying-reshuyot
edited 7 hours ago
Al Berko
7,5502631
asked 10 hours ago
rikitikitemborikitikitembo
5,39311058
add a comment |
This first Mishna in Shabbat (2a) describes the transfer of an item from a private domain to a public domain. The Mishna describes the individuals involved in this transfer as
העני עומד בחוץ ובעל הבית בפנים
The poor person stands outside, in the public domain, and the homeowner stands inside, in the private domain.
There are many other labels which could have been used including generic names (eg Reuven and Shimon) labels related to the act (machnis/motzi). Why did the Mishna choose to use the specific labels of poor person and homeowner?
mishna maseches-shabbos hotzaa-carrying-reshuyot
edited 7 hours ago
Al Berko
7,5502631
asked 10 hours ago
rikitikitemborikitikitembo
5,39311058
This first Mishna in Shabbat (2a) describes the transfer of an item from a private domain to a public domain. The Mishna describes the individuals involved in this transfer as
העני עומד בחוץ ובעל הבית בפנים
The poor person stands outside, in the public domain, and the homeowner stands inside, in the private domain.
There are many other labels which could have been used including generic names (eg Reuven and Shimon) labels related to the act (machnis/motzi). Why did the Mishna choose to use the specific labels of poor person and homeowner?
mishna maseches-shabbos hotzaa-carrying-reshuyot
mishna maseches-shabbos hotzaa-carrying-reshuyot
edited 7 hours ago
Al Berko
7,5502631
asked 10 hours ago
rikitikitemborikitikitembo
5,39311058
edited 7 hours ago
Al Berko
7,5502631
asked 10 hours ago
rikitikitemborikitikitembo
5,39311058
edited 7 hours ago
Al Berko
7,5502631
edited 7 hours ago
Al Berko
7,5502631
edited 7 hours ago
Al Berko
7,5502631
7,5502631
asked 10 hours ago
rikitikitemborikitikitembo
5,39311058
asked 10 hours ago
rikitikitemborikitikitembo
5,39311058
asked 10 hours ago
rikitikitemborikitikitembo
5,39311058
5,39311058
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Bartenura Shabbat 1:1:
ולהכי נקט הוצאה בלשון עני ועשיר, דאגב אורחיה קמ״ל דמצוה הבאה בעבירה אסורה וחייבין עליה:
The reason for discussing carrying between domains in the context of a poor and rich person, is to teach something tangential, namely that a mitzvah performed via an aveirah [i.e. giving charity while carrying on shabbat] is forbidden, and one is liable for it.
answered 10 hours ago
Joel KJoel K
16.5k230103
1
The issue with this is that the mishnah starts with a case of the poor person giving something to the rich person.
– Heshy
9 hours ago
@Heshy Yes. He's giving his basket to the rich person, so that the rich person can fill it with food
– Joel K
9 hours ago
Cf. Sukkah 3:14
– Double AA♦
9 hours ago
1
As per Joel K's comment above, the idea in the Bartenura of rich person-poor person in the give-take relationship might have something to do with a custom in some households on Shabbos, where Challah is cut, then either placed in a basket or thrown to each person sitting, to symbolize that a) bread comes from heaven and b) the act of handing someone bread is what one does when dealing with a poor person who doesn't have any food.
– Rafi Hecht
8 hours ago
Is there a discussion on מצוה הבא בעבירה in the Gemmorah here?
– Al Berko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Bartenura Shabbat 1:1:
ולהכי נקט הוצאה בלשון עני ועשיר, דאגב אורחיה קמ״ל דמצוה הבאה בעבירה אסורה וחייבין עליה:
The reason for discussing carrying between domains in the context of a poor and rich person, is to teach something tangential, namely that a mitzvah performed via an aveirah [i.e. giving charity while carrying on shabbat] is forbidden, and one is liable for it.
answered 10 hours ago
Joel KJoel K
16.5k230103
1
The issue with this is that the mishnah starts with a case of the poor person giving something to the rich person.
– Heshy
9 hours ago
@Heshy Yes. He's giving his basket to the rich person, so that the rich person can fill it with food
– Joel K
9 hours ago
Cf. Sukkah 3:14
– Double AA♦
9 hours ago
1
As per Joel K's comment above, the idea in the Bartenura of rich person-poor person in the give-take relationship might have something to do with a custom in some households on Shabbos, where Challah is cut, then either placed in a basket or thrown to each person sitting, to symbolize that a) bread comes from heaven and b) the act of handing someone bread is what one does when dealing with a poor person who doesn't have any food.
– Rafi Hecht
8 hours ago
Is there a discussion on מצוה הבא בעבירה in the Gemmorah here?
– Al Berko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Bartenura Shabbat 1:1:
ולהכי נקט הוצאה בלשון עני ועשיר, דאגב אורחיה קמ״ל דמצוה הבאה בעבירה אסורה וחייבין עליה:
The reason for discussing carrying between domains in the context of a poor and rich person, is to teach something tangential, namely that a mitzvah performed via an aveirah [i.e. giving charity while carrying on shabbat] is forbidden, and one is liable for it.
answered 10 hours ago
Joel KJoel K
16.5k230103
1
The issue with this is that the mishnah starts with a case of the poor person giving something to the rich person.
– Heshy
9 hours ago
@Heshy Yes. He's giving his basket to the rich person, so that the rich person can fill it with food
– Joel K
9 hours ago
Cf. Sukkah 3:14
– Double AA♦
9 hours ago
1
As per Joel K's comment above, the idea in the Bartenura of rich person-poor person in the give-take relationship might have something to do with a custom in some households on Shabbos, where Challah is cut, then either placed in a basket or thrown to each person sitting, to symbolize that a) bread comes from heaven and b) the act of handing someone bread is what one does when dealing with a poor person who doesn't have any food.
– Rafi Hecht
8 hours ago
Is there a discussion on מצוה הבא בעבירה in the Gemmorah here?
– Al Berko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Bartenura Shabbat 1:1:
ולהכי נקט הוצאה בלשון עני ועשיר, דאגב אורחיה קמ״ל דמצוה הבאה בעבירה אסורה וחייבין עליה:
The reason for discussing carrying between domains in the context of a poor and rich person, is to teach something tangential, namely that a mitzvah performed via an aveirah [i.e. giving charity while carrying on shabbat] is forbidden, and one is liable for it.
answered 10 hours ago
Joel KJoel K
16.5k230103
Bartenura Shabbat 1:1:
ולהכי נקט הוצאה בלשון עני ועשיר, דאגב אורחיה קמ״ל דמצוה הבאה בעבירה אסורה וחייבין עליה:
The reason for discussing carrying between domains in the context of a poor and rich person, is to teach something tangential, namely that a mitzvah performed via an aveirah [i.e. giving charity while carrying on shabbat] is forbidden, and one is liable for it.
answered 10 hours ago
Joel KJoel K
16.5k230103
edited 4 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
Joel KJoel K
16.5k230103
answered 10 hours ago
Joel KJoel K
16.5k230103
answered 10 hours ago
Joel KJoel K
16.5k230103
16.5k230103
1
The issue with this is that the mishnah starts with a case of the poor person giving something to the rich person.
– Heshy
9 hours ago
@Heshy Yes. He's giving his basket to the rich person, so that the rich person can fill it with food
– Joel K
9 hours ago
Cf. Sukkah 3:14
– Double AA♦
9 hours ago
1
As per Joel K's comment above, the idea in the Bartenura of rich person-poor person in the give-take relationship might have something to do with a custom in some households on Shabbos, where Challah is cut, then either placed in a basket or thrown to each person sitting, to symbolize that a) bread comes from heaven and b) the act of handing someone bread is what one does when dealing with a poor person who doesn't have any food.
– Rafi Hecht
8 hours ago
Is there a discussion on מצוה הבא בעבירה in the Gemmorah here?
– Al Berko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
The issue with this is that the mishnah starts with a case of the poor person giving something to the rich person.
– Heshy
9 hours ago
@Heshy Yes. He's giving his basket to the rich person, so that the rich person can fill it with food
– Joel K
9 hours ago
Cf. Sukkah 3:14
– Double AA♦
9 hours ago
1
As per Joel K's comment above, the idea in the Bartenura of rich person-poor person in the give-take relationship might have something to do with a custom in some households on Shabbos, where Challah is cut, then either placed in a basket or thrown to each person sitting, to symbolize that a) bread comes from heaven and b) the act of handing someone bread is what one does when dealing with a poor person who doesn't have any food.
– Rafi Hecht
8 hours ago
Is there a discussion on מצוה הבא בעבירה in the Gemmorah here?
– Al Berko
7 hours ago
1
1
The issue with this is that the mishnah starts with a case of the poor person giving something to the rich person.
– Heshy
9 hours ago
The issue with this is that the mishnah starts with a case of the poor person giving something to the rich person.
– Heshy
9 hours ago
@Heshy Yes. He's giving his basket to the rich person, so that the rich person can fill it with food
– Joel K
9 hours ago
@Heshy Yes. He's giving his basket to the rich person, so that the rich person can fill it with food
– Joel K
9 hours ago
Cf. Sukkah 3:14
– Double AA♦
9 hours ago
Cf. Sukkah 3:14
– Double AA♦
9 hours ago
1
1
As per Joel K's comment above, the idea in the Bartenura of rich person-poor person in the give-take relationship might have something to do with a custom in some households on Shabbos, where Challah is cut, then either placed in a basket or thrown to each person sitting, to symbolize that a) bread comes from heaven and b) the act of handing someone bread is what one does when dealing with a poor person who doesn't have any food.
– Rafi Hecht
8 hours ago
As per Joel K's comment above, the idea in the Bartenura of rich person-poor person in the give-take relationship might have something to do with a custom in some households on Shabbos, where Challah is cut, then either placed in a basket or thrown to each person sitting, to symbolize that a) bread comes from heaven and b) the act of handing someone bread is what one does when dealing with a poor person who doesn't have any food.
– Rafi Hecht
8 hours ago
Is there a discussion on מצוה הבא בעבירה in the Gemmorah here?
– Al Berko
7 hours ago
Is there a discussion on מצוה הבא בעבירה in the Gemmorah here?
– Al Berko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
